This rumor/thread in ThaiVisa is gonna scare and piss off lots of us

[jvt22222]

https://aseannow.com/topic/1250107-increase-in-funds-for-retirement-extension/


There seems to be a nasty rumour going around that an increase in funds required for retirement are due to rise.
I have been told twice now that there is due to be an increase to 2.8 million Baht later this year.
It came from a very long time good friend who got the info from someone who is clued up on immigration issues.

Has anyone else heard anything ?

[cdnmatt]

Doubt they'd raise it from 800k all the way to 2.8mm in one go. They're just going to create tons of illegal immigrants they need to haul away to the IDC.

[StevieWonders]

Thailand has been making it very, very clear for a long while that they're not interested in being a destination for cheapskate retirees. Malaysia has also increased its financial requirements in the last year or so. The options are (1) Cambodia, where USD 250 per year will get you an infinitely extendable retirement visa, no 90-day reports, no mandatory health insurance or (2) buy an Elite visa for more or less 1 million baht (about the same as the "money in the bank" requirement) or (3) marry a Thai citizen so that your visa is extended on the basis of marriage not retirement

[goji]

Does anyone sane worry about some possible fabrication originating from an unknown friend of a friend on the internet ?

Let's see how many take the bait.

[StevieWonders]

Does anyone sane worry about some possible fabrication originating from an unknown friend of a friend on the internet ?Apposite

[Dodger]

Complete nonsense.

The people responding to this idiotic rumor on Aseannow are shooting from the hip, and getting themselves even more confused in the process.

After speaking with several RELIABLE sources about this last year - I posted an outline of the potential changes shown below:

SAWATDEE FORUM:

Expat Income Requirements Changing?

What we know:

All retirement visas are inherently the same as they are all issued pursuant to Section 34 (15) of the Thai Immigration Act. The only significant difference between the O and O-A visas is their place of application, and the fact that the O-A visa holders will be required to have 3M THB in health insurance, effective Oct 1, 2022.

- Visa changes are in the process of being made (confirmed)
- Programs established for attracting wealthy retiree's (confirmed)
- Financial income requirements for Long Stays to be increased (highly probable)
- Insurance policies for expats > 70 y/o developed and available for purchase (confirmed)
- Health insurance mandate standardized across all Long Stay visa classifications (possible)
- Visa restructuring, i.e., streamlined, simplified, updated, gaps closed (probable)
- Grandfather clause for income requirements similar to 1998/2003 revisions (probable)
- Continuous extension provisions established to quality for Grandfathering (probable)

What we can assume from what we know:

- Changes will be introduced sometime in 2022 (probable)
- Retirees will be required to have health insurance (3M THB) (possible)
- Retirees who have >2 yrs continuous extensions, with no interruptions, classification changes, cancellations, or lapses, may be grandfathered from income increase (probable). Ranked "probable" because this is how immigration handled grandfathering to the 2003 revisions.

Note: The financial income requirement for retirees was last changed to 800k baht and 65k baht income in 2003. Marriage was changed from 250k baht and 25k baht income to the 400k baht and 40 baht amounts in the same year. Those who were on continuous extensions of stay based upon retirement in 1998 were grandfathered and the 2003 increase did not apply to them.

Why would it be important to not change your visa classification at this time? Because doing so could potentially be considered a break in your “continuous extensions” as interpreted by Immigration, resulting in your disqualification from being “grandfathered”. This of course is only speculation at this time, but in the event this were to happen, you could potentially be forced to comply with the revised (2022) financial income requirement.

General Visa Stuff:

Thailand has 11 different major visa types as follows:

- Special tourist visa (STV)…not to confused with STD
- Tourist visa (TR)
- Non-immigrant Visa-B (Business)…and MFAS
- Non-immigrant Visa-B (Working)
- Non-immigrant Visa-ED
- Non-immigrant Visa-O-A (Long Stay)
- Non-immigrant Visa O-X (Long Stay)
- Non-immigrant Visa-O (Thai Spouse)
- SMART Visa
- Tourist MT Visa (Medical Treatment)
- Elite Visa

For comparison purposes, the U.S has 31 major visa types, China has 16, Cambodia 6, and Australia with over a hundred. Cambodia is the only country (of the ones mentioned) that actually has a Retirement Visa (ER) for foreign nationals over the age of 55 who are retired and can support themselves financially without working. This 12 month visa can be extended annually.

[Gaybutton]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Don't worry until there is something to worry about. So far there is nothing. One post by someone who says he heard it from a reliable source is not my idea of something to worry about. There are plenty of people who would say Donald Trump is a reliable source too.

Folks, if any such thing was even being contemplated, would you actually buy the idea that only one person has heard about it and told anyone? Do you truly believe even Thailand would suddenly more than triple the requirement?

Forget it.

[Manforallseasons]

My guess this has more to do with expats that are unlucky enough to hold O-A long stay visas that cannot get mandatory health insurance and must show adequate funds on hand to meet self insurance requirements.

[Dodger]

My guess this has more to do with expats that are unlucky enough to hold O-A long stay visas that cannot get mandatory health insurance and must show adequate funds on hand to meet self insurance requirements.

Several Thai approved insurance companies recently developed policies to address this concern. Expensive yes...but at least a viable option for those in need. If this type of policy is unaffordable to someone - the use (or continued use) of an agent seems to be the only other option.

[Manforallseasons]

Several Thai approved insurance companies recently developed policies to address this concern. Expensive yes...but at least a viable option for those in need. If this type of policy is unaffordable to someone - the use (or continued use) of an agent seems to be the only other option.

On another thread of yours about the expat population decreasing some that are unable to get insurance are returning to their home country ie.U.S. and U.K.where they can get medicaid or in the case of the U.K. free care via the N.H.S.

[Dodger]

On another thread of yours about the expat population decreasing some that are unable to get insurance are returning to their home country ie.U.S. and U.K.where they can get medicaid or in the case of the U.K. free care via the N.H.S.

My best friend from Ireland has been coming to Thailand regularity (twice per year) for over 25 years and would retire here in a heartbeat if he could, but he gets free heath care coverage in his home country and admits to not being able to afford coverage at his age over here. He knows he could have been using "agents" but doesn't like the risk involved - not knowing how long these agents will be providing this service. I don't blame him a bit.

Personally, (and you and I have talked about this before), I don't know how anyone could retire and reside in a foreign country without having adequate health insurance. You and I agreed on this the last time we talked about it (10 years ago)...and I think those without coverage are starting to regret some of the decisions they made back when they were a bit younger.

For anyone, making a decision to retire and live in a foreign country, especially a disjointed third-world country like Thailand, without having the necessary funds to support themselves, has always been at the center of this. The Catch 22 is when a foreign expat returns to his home country because he can receive free (or low cost) health insurance - only to find that the cost-of-living has increased 10 fold since he was last there and he still struggles to make ends meet. Not an easy solution, that's for sure.

[StevieWonders]

My best friend from Ireland has been coming to Thailand regularity (twice per year) for over 25 years and would retire here in a heartbeat if he could, but he gets free heath care coverage in his home country and admits to not being able to afford coverage at his age over here. He knows he could have been using "agents" but doesn't like the risk involved - not knowing how long these agents will be providing this service. I don't blame him a bit.

Personally, (and you and I have talked about this before), I don't know how anyone could retire and reside in a foreign country without having adequate health insurance. You and I agreed on this the last time we talked about it (10 years ago)...and I think those without coverage are starting to regret some of the decisions they made back when they were a bit younger.

For anyone, making a decision to retire and live in a foreign country, especially a disjointed third-world country like Thailand, without having the necessary funds to support themselves, has always been at the center of this. The Catch 22 is when a foreign expat returns to his home country because he can receive free (or low cost) health insurance - only to find that the cost-of-living has increased 10 fold since he was last there and he still struggles to make ends meet. Not an easy solution, that's for sure.As I recall there was some discussion when the mandatory health insurance requirement was introduced whether the Thais would introduce a substantial bond to cover future hospitalisation costs for those unable to get insurance, but i don't recall any firm action on this

[Blueskytoday]

One of the ONLY countries requiring Insurance for entry......Wake up TH.....just another rip off..

[StevieWonders]

One of the ONLY countries requiring Insurance for entry......Wake up TH.....just another rip off..Oh god, she's off again

[Gaybutton]

introduce a substantial bond to cover future hospitalisation costs for those unable to get insurance, but i don't recall any firm action on this
Neither do I. I don't understand why Thailand has not established some sort of means by which banks could hold a certain amount of money in escrow accounts for people who want to self-insure. I would think the banks would like that idea and the hospitals could directly bill such accounts.

Unless I'm missing something, I would think some sort of system like that would make sense for people who would want to do that.

[StevieWonders]

Neither do I. I don't understand why Thailand has not established some sort of means by which banks could hold a certain amount of money in escrow accounts for people who want to self-insure. I would think the banks would like that idea and the hospitals could directly bill such accounts.

Unless I'm missing something, I would think some sort of system like that would make sense for people who would want to do that.I'm not sure that it would necessarily work exactly as you describe - perhaps you're thinking of how "Health Savings Accounts" work in the US? I envisage that the patient would incur the costs and would pay them by credit or debit card from current savings but would only access the escrow account funds if unable to pay out of current savings

One slightly encouraging development I see, not really for retirees, is the new 300 baht arrival tax which supposedly includes a "hospital insurance" element. It will be interesting to see if this applies only to those who arrive on certain visa types or as visa exempt. For the 30-day visa exempt passenger it only amounts to 10 baht per day of insurance, presumably in some sort of insurance pool. I see the introduction has been delayed a couple of months as the mechanism to collect it hasn't yet been finalised. Some of my visiting friends who come for just a few weeks are 75+ and find it difficult or too expensive to get travel insurance from their home country, so this seems a worthwhile proposal for them, if it works as might be assumed. I understand this is mostly for those who "did a runner" which Thai hospitals claim is a frequent occurrence

[NitNoi]

I "self insure" and would not be happy leaving (say) $50k in escrow. My reserves are gainfully employed, not being eroded by inflation in a bank.

[Gaybutton]

I'm not sure that it would necessarily work exactly as you describe

I'm also not sure. But what I am sure about is if Thailand will allow people to self-insure, they'll only do it if they come up with some way to guarantee the money will be there if necessary. This whole insurance problem is the result of some foreigners skipping the country instead of paying their hospital bills. So, Thailand wants to make sure the hospitals will be paid, especially since they want to make Thailand a "medical tourism hub".

Meanwhile, the vast majority of us who do hold adequate insurance and pay our bills end up getting penalized due to the actions of a few. Isn't that the basis for the 800,000 baht requirement for those of us on a retirement visa? However, contrary to the OP's friend, I see nothing to indicate that, or anything else, is going to be raised.

In my opinion, a person would be at the top of the "damned fool" list if he lives in a foreign country or even visits a foreign country without adequate medical coverage, especially if they are getting on in years.

[Dodger]

There were comments made by the Health Minister and various Immigration officials in early 2021 hinting at the prospect of allowing those who were unable to obtain health insurance to hold a predetermined amount of money in the bank to cover medical costs as an option for renewing visa extensions.

They are not suggesting "escrow accounts", merely a minimum amount of money maintained in a persons normal bank account during the year to cover medical expenses if needed. I don't believe there has been any mention of what that amount may be as of yet. If this option becomes available, it is, in essense, the same as being self-insured.

Note, that originally the changes we're talking about were slated to be implemented in October, 2021 but got delayed because of Covid. That includes the requirement for O-A visa holders to have an increased amount of 3M health insurance coverage by Oct 2021 - which was also delayed until Oct of this year (2022) for the same reason.

All indications are, at least from the discussions taking place between interested parties in early 2021, that the Health Ministry and Immigration are fully aware of the need to provide workable options for elderly expats who are currently residing in Thailand on extensions. Contrary to what some seem to think, I don't believe they have any interest whatsoever in kicking elderly expats out of the Kingdom, just raising the bar (financially) for foreigners wanting to retire in Thailand in the future.

My personal opinion on this (for what it's worth) is that expats who have been retired here for several years (or more), who have been receiving extensions on a continual basis, and who don't have any immigration violations in their history, don't have much to worry about. Immigration in Thailand has always allowed itself the legal flexibility to handle each case as they see fit. The exception I believe would be an expat who is, for any reason, deemed by Immigration as being undesirable.

[StevieWonders]

I'm also not sure. But what I am sure about is if Thailand will allow people to self-insure, they'll only do it if they come up with some way to guarantee the money will be there if necessary. This whole insurance problem is the result of some foreigners skipping the country instead of paying their hospital bills. So, Thailand wants to make sure the hospitals will be paid, especially since they want to make Thailand a "medical tourism hub".

Meanwhile, the vast majority of us who do hold adequate insurance and pay our bills end up getting penalized due to the actions of a few. Isn't that the basis for the 800,000 baht requirement for those of us on a retirement visa? However, contrary to the OP's friend, I see nothing to indicate that, or anything else, is going to be raised.

In my opinion, a person would be at the top of the "damned fool" list if he lives in a foreign country or even visits a foreign country without adequate medical coverage, especially if they are getting on in years.

While I agree in principle with what you say, AFAIK there's only one country whose private insurers have "anywhere in the world" cover, and that's the USA. The availability of insurance at such a reasonable cost just doesn't exist for citizens of countries (mostly EU) who have the equivalent of the UK's National Health Service or have access to a Reciprocal Health Care Agreement outside Thailand. A friend of mine from Australia investigated using Australian health insurance in Thailand and found the issue is that Australian health insurance premiums attract a tax deduction, and the government quite simply won't support or allow a tax deduction for something that incurs costs outside Australia. Longer term the solution is for those countries to enter into a Reciprocal Health Care Agreement with Thailand, but given the lack of the equivalent of a Thai NHS that's a long way in the future

[2lz2p]

I don't have the link, but did read some articles that effective 1 October, those using the OA Visa will be able to self insure. No specific information was given on what documents will be needed to satisfy Immigration. The article was based on a Ministry of Public Health announcement. So Immigration will no doubt be issuing their requirements for documenting proof prior to the effective date - as usual, the devil will be in the details.

[StevieWonders]

I don't have the link, but did read some articles that effective 1 October, those using the OA Visa will be able to self insure. No specific information was given on what documents will be needed to satisfy Immigration. The article was based on a Ministry of Public Health announcement. So Immigration will no doubt be issuing their requirements for documenting proof prior to the effective date - as usual, the devil will be in the details.So it seems - 3 million baht
https://www.huahintoday.com/hua-hin-news/policy-change-to-non-imm-o-a-long-stay-retirement-visa-allows-foreigners-to-self-insure/
https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/long-stay-retirees-in-thailand-to-be-allowed-to-self-insure-387715

[Dodger]

So Immigration will no doubt be issuing their requirements for documenting proof prior to the effective date - as usual, the devil will be in the details.

The "Agents" are gonna luv it.

[cdnmatt]

Wonder if they'll accept a message signed with a bitcoin private key as proof.

[2lz2p]

So it seems - 3 million baht
https://www.huahintoday.com/hua-hin-news/policy-change-to-non-imm-o-a-long-stay-retirement-visa-allows-foreigners-to-self-insure/
https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/long-stay-retirees-in-thailand-to-be-allowed-to-self-insure-387715

Here is updated article dated 16 Feb in Pattaya Mail: https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/self-insurance-for-retirees-in-thailand-moves-a-step-forward-389616


There is no information yet if self-insurance will be acceptable to Thai immigration for annual extensions of stay of O/A.

[StevieWonders]

Wonder if they'll accept a message signed with a bitcoin private key as proof.Yes, it's a WA visa

[poshglasgow]

The fear I have about being in possession of health insurance in a country like Thailand is the prospect of being told that you need treatment for something that is not broken! Imagine turning up at the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital with a painful toe.
"Doctor, my toe hurts."
"Okay, no problem, do you have comprehensive health insurance?"
"Sure, why do you ask? It's only a sore toe, I can pay you cash for the consultation, possible x-ray and prescription."
"Ah but....Toe bone connected to the foot bone
Foot bone connected to the heel bone
Heel bone connected to the ankle bone
Ankle bone connected to the leg bone
Leg bone connected to the knee bone
Knee bone connected to the thigh bone
Thigh bone connected to the hip bone
Hip bone connected to the back bone
Back bone connected to the shoulder bone
Shoulder bone connected to the neck bone
Neck bone connected to the head bone
so you see, the problem starts in your head and your heart rules your head, so you must have a triple by-pass. Sign here please."

[StevieWonders]

Stick to not-for-profit hospitals such as, in Bangkok, Saint Louis or Bangkok Christian

[2lz2p]

The fear I have about being in possession of health insurance in a country like Thailand is the prospect of being told that you need treatment for something that is not broken! Imagine turning up at the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital with a painful toe.
"Doctor, my toe hurts."
"Okay, no problem, do you have comprehensive health insurance?"


In the 20 years I have been using Bangkok Hospital Pattaya, I have never had a doctor ask me about insurance when doing a consultation. I have found the doctors to be quite competent and have recommended diagnostic procedures and/or surgery only when it was needed - based on my symptoms/condition I saw no need to question the tests/treatment the doctor recommended.

In once case when I had fractured shoulder, the Doctor actually recommended against surgery saying it was a small hairline fracture and would heal on its on. When the doctors have recommended any costly treatment, it is me that has brought up my insurance and dealt with administrative staff about getting health insurance approval. In another case several years ago, based on my symptoms, the doctor ordered additional tests and based on the results said I needed to be admitted immediately for treatment -- the diagnosis showed I had a pulmonary embolism, a life threatening condition. In that case, I paid the bill. When I submitted my claim to my USA health insurance, they agreed and reimbursed me the cost.

I have found that if BHP is direct billing for insurance, the price is substantially higher then if you are self paying and, if you have it, filing a claim with your health insurance for reimbursement - about 40% higher. In my case, my inpatient is covered 100% by my insurance and for the past few years BHP has direct billed my health insurance, which requires them to submit information on symptoms and need for their recommended treatment. However, for outpatient care, my insurance reimburses me 85%. Since I am paying 15% of the bill, I pay BHP and claim reimbursement.

[Gaybutton]

In the 20 years I have been using Bangkok Hospital Pattaya, I have never had a doctor ask me about insurance when doing a consultation.
My experience is the same as yours, and for longer than 20 years - before Bangkok Hospital Pattaya even existed. At the time, the only hospital in Pattaya was Memorial Hospital, which is still in operation today and is still excellent.

Maybe I'm wrong, but before the "experts" and people who don't live here and probably have never been inside Bangkok Hospital Pattaya start posting nonsense, wouldn't it make more sense simply to ask those of us who actually know what they are talking about if some of these negative goings on really do happen? For some strange reason I think what those of us with genuine experience can provide more reliable information than those who just make it up.

Again, there is no evidence whatsoever that Thailand is going to up the fees, especially 3 times as much - and that includes the OP's anonymous friend who tells the OP that he has inside information - information he has, but no one else has and no media leaks either.

If anyone is going to be 'scared and pissed off', may I suggest at least waiting until there is something to be scared and pissed off about . . . ?

[jvt22222]

If the following is TMI, sorry … once I got started, felt compelled to continue … I write here complimentary to the above two posts … I've been here full time for 22 years … with local BUPA (now called AETNA) inpatient only (what is referred to in USA as major medical) insurance… started out using Pattaya International Hospital on Soi 4 … for reasons I don’t recall or never knew BUPA stopped coverage for Pattaya International, so I had to move to the then new Bangkok Hospital Pattaya… so have been a patient/customer of BHP for going on to 20 years … during that period I have seen maybe 10-12 different doctors for everything from broken wrist to emergency gallbladder surgery to food poisoning, etc … as well have had regular annual full blown medical examinations (highly recommended) and most recently 3 Covid-19 vaccinations … through default and my choice, my primary physician is my cardiologist, who I have total confidence in and respect for … thinking back over two decades, I can honestly say that I have not had any negative experience with the medical advice and care I have received … expectedly, the costs have gone up … both for the hospital and the insurance … at 80 remains to be seen how much longer this copacetic relationship continues.

[StevieWonders]

… through default and my choice, my primary physician is my cardiologist.In what world of general medicine would anyone have a specialist as a primary care health resource? The Thai system is f***ed because of the hospital-centric nature of health care. I suspect it's something to do with Thailand having in the past "outsourced" its medical training by sending its brightest (and richest) to overseas medical schools who come back and seek out lucrative appointments in the private hospital system which is just a money-making machine

[Gaybutton]

A moderator on Aseannow, regarding the link jvt22222 posted in this topic's first post, did exactly the right thing. After all kinds of posts coming from people the best any of them can do is just guess - much of which was nonsense - the moderator posted the following:


Heresay and scaremongering

//CLOSED//

And that is exactly what he did and he is right about exactly what it is. Again, no evidence of any kind whatsoever, but many buy it and believe it anyway - kind of like Trump supporters. Doesn't matter that it is pure bullshit. I can make up a moronic rumor too and all I have to do is insist it came from a reliable, in-the-know source to give it more credibility. I guarantee there will be people who believe it - no question about it.

My father told me a story many years ago about a man who placed an ad in several high readership newspapers. All it said was "Last chance to send $10 to . . ." along with the address where to send it. The man got a few thousand dollars from it. Anyone surprised?


"The bigger the lie the more it will be believed"
- Josef Goebbels

[StevieWonders]

A moderator on Aseannow, regarding the link jvt22222 posted in this topic's first post, did exactly the right thing. After all kinds of posts coming from people the best any of them can do is just guess - much of which was nonsense - the moderator posted the following:



And that is exactly what he did and he is right about exactly what it is. Again, no evidence of any kind whatsoever, but many buy it and believe it anyway - kind of like Trump supporters. Doesn't matter that it is pure bullshit. I can make up a moronic rumor too and all I have to do is insist it came from a reliable, in-the-know source to give it more credibility. I guarantee there will be people who believe it - no question about it.

My father told me a story many years ago about a man who placed an ad in several high readership newspapers. All it said was "Last chance to send $10 to . . ." along with the address where to send it. The man got a few thousand dollars from it. Anyone surprised?


"The bigger the lie the more it will be believed"
- Josef Goebbels
That’s the new name for The Whingers & Whiners Forum now is it?

[2lz2p]

In what world of general medicine would anyone have a specialist as a primary care health resource? The Thai system is f***ed because of the hospital-centric nature of health care. I suspect it's something to do with Thailand having in the past "outsourced" its medical training by sending its brightest (and richest) to overseas medical schools who come back and seek out lucrative appointments in the private hospital system which is just a money-making machine

I retired in September 2002 and came here for a 6 month trial period (Non Immigrant O Multiple Entry Visa). I had been coming here on holiday for the previous 15 years, fell for the waiter who worked in the Ambiance coffee shop. We then had a 10 year long distance relationship with my visiting him twice a year until I retired. I then obtained a Non Immigrant O Visa (multiple entry) to give living here a 6 month trial - (1) to determine if I wanted to live here on a continuing basis, (2) whether living with my Thai boyfriend for a period longer than a 2 week holiday would work out, and (3) to find out if could get acceptable medical care as I had a serious heart condition.

My first visit to BHP was to determine if I could get my needed medicines and the quality of medical care. An Expat here recommended a particular doctor at BHP (Internal Medicine that to me would be the same as a general practitioner (non specialist) in the USA). I described my medical condition and maintenance medicines. He said that I should meet with their cardiologist and had his nurse take me to his office where, much to my surprise, he was able to see me almost immediately. He understood my condition and said my maintenance medicines, although different brand names, was readily available. Thus, he became my primary care doctor for the past 19+ years. During that period, I have made appointments with other specialties depending on my symptoms or had them come to see me when I was hospitalized for other than a heart condition - broken bones, stroke, prostate cancer, lung infection, etc.

The quality of medical care I receive at BHP is one reason I have chosen to remain in Pattaya since my boyfriend passed away last November (my primary reason for living here). My USA health insurance covers me here, but would be supplemental to Medicare if I returned to the USA. My medical history for the past 19+ years is here at BHP. Further, unlike the USA, I can get a doctors appointment most often on the day and hour of my choosing - not 2 or 3 weeks later as in the USA for non emergency cases. Likewise, my lab work is usually ready for the doctor to see within 40 minutes to an hour, not in 3 or 4 days as in the USA. Although BHP is more expensive, its costs are substantially less then that in USA, so my 15% co-pay for outpatient care results in much less out of pocket expense than if I was receiving it in USA.

As to medical training, whenever I need to see a new doctor, I usually look up their training and experience as shown on BHP's website (also on Bangkok Hospital in Bangkok where I decided to have and received my prostate cancer treatment about 10 years ago). So far, all my doctors received their medical degree from Universities in Thailand, not in other countries. So, I would not agree with the comment: "with Thailand having in the past "outsourced" its medical training by sending its brightest (and richest) to overseas medical schools". However, it is true that many, but not all, have gone to the USA, UK, or Australia for more advanced training in their specialties.

[Dodger]

So far, all my doctors received their medical degree from Universities in Thailand, not in other countries.

According to a doctor I spoke with at Queen Sirikit Hospital (State Hospital) a while back, most of the doctors in Thailand receive their medical degrees at Universities in Thailand exactly as you stated. He is resident at BHP and works on a temporary rotation basis at Queen Sirikit. ( He's also a living doll)

As a side note, one of the reasons I elected to reside in Bang Saray after retirement was to be within reasonable proximity to Queen Sirikit Hospital (QSH) in Sattahip. QSH is a State Hospital with some fairly archaic systems resulting in long queves, and is far from being considered modern by any stretch, although their healthcare services at ranked pretty high. They utilize the service of doctors from BHP (and others) on a rotational basis - so the quality of the service you receive is just as good as BHP - without all the polished chrome and shiny elevators.

I've used Queen Sirikit twice over the years; Once for vein surgery in both legs, and another time for a urinary track infection of a less serious nature. The care I received was excellent...the doctors and nursing staff are top-notch...and the cost was so low that I simply paid out-of-pocket. The cost of medical treatment at QSH is about a third of the costs at BHP. I have medical insurance, but choose not to use it unless it's absolutely necessary in order to continue receiving annual "no-claims" discounts on my insurance policy.

Note, that if I ever needed medical treatment for a very serious condition I would go to BHP, if for no other reason but to be assured they're using the most modern techniques and equipment available.

[Manforallseasons]

Re: QSH…..A dear friend who doesn’t have health insurance had a persistent soreness in his throat and friends told him to go to QSH and he did so, he waited forever to see a doctor and the doctor told him to come back and see another doctor so he did and once again waited what seemed like forever. This doctor didn’t like what he saw in my friend’s throat and took a small sample for a biopsy which after several days came back negative, as nothing improved he eventually went to BPH now he has had his voicebox removed and a long haul of radiation…..you get what you pay for!

[Dodger]

Re: QSH…..A dear friend who doesn’t have health insurance had a persistent soreness in his throat and friends told him to go to QSH and he did so, he waited forever to see a doctor and the doctor told him to come back and see another doctor so he did and once again waited what seemed like forever. This doctor didn’t like what he saw in my friend’s throat and took a small sample for a biopsy which after several days came back negative, as nothing improved he eventually went to BPH now he has had his voicebox removed and a long haul of radiation…..you get what you pay for!

Maybe if he would have stuck with QSH he would still have his voice box. Just kidding!

[StevieWonders]

I thought I'd follow up on 2lz2p's information that "most doctors in Thailand" had trained in Thailand so googled "Thai medical schools". It didn't fill me with confidence at all about the public hospital system. I still count Bumrungrad of which I hear good things Bangkok Christian and Saint Louis as the best private hospitals, with the latter two definitely not clip joints as one of their nearest neighbours is perceived, where it's likely you'll be charged for an MRI if you turn up with an ingrown toenail). 2lz2p's anecdote about why he retired to Thailand reminded me of that old saying that an erection has the effect of draining blood from the brain (and that seems to have been the basis of his decision)

[Armando]

I have been going to Bumrungrad since a stomach problem on a visit in 1999. I have recently given up on it. First, in normal times it was packed with people from the Middle East with the ladies wearing their all black head to toe outfits. That's not an issue that would normally bother me, but they did seem to get some sort of preference. When I would turn up for an appointment 30 minutes or so before the scheduled time, I often had to wait 45 - 60 beyond the scheduled time to see the doctor, in part because he had Middle Eastern patients before me, almost all of whom required considerably longer consultations.

I also had two much more recent bad experiences. Last year, I sent an email requesting it be passed to my regular doctor there for repeat medication. This is a simple pill that I have been advised to take regularly. Usually I will get email confirmation that the medication is ready for collection a maximum of 4 days later. On that occasion, despite phone calls and more emails, it took 13 days for the medication to be ready.

Then my doctor recommended a colonoscopy - not unusual in older patients and it had been 6 years since a previous one. He told me there was a special offer of a joint colonoscopy/gastroscopy for 32,000 baht. He said that was a good price - and compared to what I had paid 6 years earlier it certainly was. So I booked the procedures. A few days beforehand I was called and asked if I wanted an anaesthetist present. As my doctor was fully aware, I always have one present, I told the nurse. Oh well, that will be an additional 12,000 baht! I cancelled the procedures.

Very occasionally over a good few years I have been to Bangkok Nursing Home on Soi Convent for minor ailments. Recently I noticed that it had a 60%-70% off offer for various procedures. The combined camerawork with an anaesthetist present was 32,000 baht, everything included apart from lab work on any polyps excised. The heart check with an MRI of the heart and ultrasound of the carotid artery was 15,000 baht including consultation with a heart specialist. Everything worked like clockwork, the doctors were excellent - and thankfully the results were excellent too.

As to the point made about doctors, in my experience at least in Bangkok many do indeed have overseas degrees - and not just in the large private hospitals. Last year I had a CT scan and 2 MRI abdominal scans at the public Chulalongkorn Hospital for a fraction of the price they would have cost at Bumrungrad and BNH. The lady doctor had degrees from here in Bangkok and another from Canada. Understandably she spoke fluent English and could not have been more pleasant. I did not choose her. It is the hospital that allocates doctors for first time patients.

[StevieWonders]

BNH! Stop using swear words! I've been going to Saint Louis for years, never been happier