The Brink of War?

[arsenal]

Will he, wont he. Are we on the brink of War in Europe. 130000 Russian troops surround Ukraine's borders along with enough ordnance and other supplies to launch an invasion.

There's no doubt Putin wants to. He was cosying up to Ukraine years ago and offered them a 15bn dollar gift which they turned down and looked to the EU for their future. A snub Putin has never forgiven them for.

Personally I don't think he's going to do it but who knows what's in his mind.. History shows us that when all powerful dictator really want a war there's little that can be done to stop them.

[dinagam]

All this is about Biden trying to get out of the mess in his governance and the pressures on his position from all corners of societies badly affected by the spurious pandemic and the consequences of downward spiraling economy for the great majority of the population now who are physically and emotionally exhausted and wanting a reset in how society is run in this age of mainstream media controlling the narrative of how people live and how they have been deceived by the elites in the government and the global economy seemingly for the eventual benefit of mankind . His army has lost so many F35 combat aircraft and his submarine recently incapacitated by Chinese underwater drone, NATO's foray into the battlefield will be suicidal to their men, women and trans alike. Donald Trump is watching Biden very closely and is ever ready to strike...

[cdnmatt]

I personally liked this video about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJNtfyq3TDE

I don't think anyone knows what will happen. Considering Russia left all the military hardware at the Ukraine border when they had "training excersises" about 10 months ago, and now even has field hospitals setup on the border, they're obviously preparing for an invasion.

Whether or not Putin actually pulls the trigger is anyone's guess. If he does though, I would imagine you can expect China to view it as an opportune time to slide into Taiwan.

@dinagam -- Don't you have a Q-Anon meeting to attend, or something?

[dinagam]

A spurious blind man watching a video? Did you see Putin’s sexy manœuvre ?

[cdnmatt]

A spurious blind man watching a video? Did you see Putin’s sexy manœuvre ?

Really? Some of you are still going for that? The horse hasn't only been beaten to death, it's fully decomposed, returned to the soil, and provided fertilizer to help new plant life grow which horses three generations later have eaten.

Watch the video with your eyes closed. You digest the exact same information.

[arsenal]

All posts regarding Matt's blindness should be moved. Rules is rules.

The UK is deploying troops across Europe in a clear message from BJ. The message being 'I'm in deep shit with partygate and this might get me off the hook.'

One thing guaranteed to get Pooty Poots goat is the UK giving him the two fingers.

This is actually escalating daily.

[StevieWonders]

All posts regarding Matt's blindness should be moved. Rules is rules.Delusions of adequacy

[Moses]

========130000 Russian troops surround Ukraine's borders=====

This is fiction. Game of US. US trying to push war, because they want to stop North Stream - 2 gas pipeline, but Germany doesn't agree. If war will starts then Germany will have to abort North Stream and US will be able to sell gas to Europe. With working North Stream US has no chances: Russian prices are unbeatable.

But fact is: "Russian troops" are based in camp near Yelnya - small town in Smolensk district, that is near Belorussian border. Just read news carefully and you will see that town name, newspapers say Yelnya is located near Ukrainian border, but by fact Yelnya is 100 km from Belorussian border and distance to closest point on Ukrainian border is 248 km. By the way: distance from Yelnya to closest point of Moscow is 249 km. So "near Ukrainian border" is just propaganda: with the same proximity to truth they can write "Russian troops are near Moscow" - 248 vs 249 km

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/01/07/world/europe/ukraine-maps.html

Pictures from Google map, you may check my measurements yourself:

12214

12215

[goji]

This is fiction. Game of US. US trying to push war, because they want to stop North Stream

So are you saying Putin will not invade the remaining parts of Ukraine ?

As for energy policy, the dumbest decision of all was by Germany, which closed 3 Nuclear power plants last month. That's one way to increase dependency on Mr Putin's gas.

[Moses]

=======So are you saying Putin will not invade the parts of Ukraine that he's not already invaded ?=====

Exactly. The same says Ukrainian president Zelensky. Only Biden says "Russian invasion is unavoidable". Check last phone conversation btw Biden and Zelensky just few days ago. Biden: "unavoidable", Zelensky: "we don't see any preparations".

Ukraine now is quite angry on such pushing: their loans from banks become more expensive, investors removes investitions from country. They have huge problems on financial markets now because of that propaganda, what includes also staff evacuations from Ukraine by USA and UK.

France sees no changes, Germany sees no changes, Hungary sees no changes and so on... and only US and UK distribute panic - US wants to sell expensive liq.gas to Europa, but market is already taken by cheap natural gas from Russia via North Stream pipeline and future North Stream - 2 pipeline that US trying to stop. Russia controls 44% of European gas market. And only way to stop German-Russian gas deal is to provoke panic and war and then to use sanctions against "aggressor".

[Moses]

======That's one way to increase dependency on Mr Putin's gas.======

USSR/Russia sells gas to Europe over 5 decades. European gas-distributing companies have HUGE profit from that deal. And at time of 5 decades this deal never been disrupted, not at time of "Cold war" not at post-USSR time. At past 2021 Russian state gas export monopoly GazProm sold 12% more gas to Europe than it has been contracted.

Only twice gas pumping was disrupted for 3 and 6 days. Guess when! When Ukraine was found to steal gas from pipeline in 2003 and 2008 years. But by German-Russian deal Germany pays for gas on Russia-Ukraine border but measures it on west Ukrainian border. So if Ukraine steals gas then counters show what Russia send less gas than has been paid.

And that is reason why Russia made North stream. It was far before pro-western presidents come to power in Ukraine. Pipelines has nothing mutual with politic - they have purpose to shorten distance from Russian North to Europe and to abrupt gas stealing.

[maump]

Amazing the differences in opinion. the corporate news media has won. none of us know the truth.

I only hope peace wins out. But War is often used to distract from bad politics at home. and make money for some.

[arsenal]

Russian military entirely surrounding Ukraine. Moses, you and you alone I think are claiming this is propaganda. Even Putin admits they are there but says it's a training exercise.

[arsenal]

And on a lighter note (but entirely on topic) I recommend episode 1 of the first series of Yes Prime Minister. It's about NATO and a masterclass in comedy delivery by Paul Eddington.

[cdnmatt]

Yeah, I don't know why Moses comes up with these bullshit facts that he knows are obviously false. It's 2022, you can't just play hide and seek with ~127,000 soldiers with military hardware.

[Nirish guy]

I have no idea who is right or wrong but I have to say it’s always interesting to read Moses (usually alternative) view on matters on east versus west propaganda.

I’m sure the one thing we CAN all agree on though is that both sides DO undertake a lot Propaganda and manipulation of the media ( and so us) when it suits their needs, thus making our person to person conversations here even more interesting sometimes as we all try to distinguish fact from fiction when it comes to the many lies we’re all being told regularly by BOTH sides no doubt.

My only problem with your view about the pipeline etc Moses is surely then to “beat” the Americans and keep Russian gas flowing to Europe then all Putin has to do is NOT invade Ukraine and “he wins” and all America’s attempts at warmongering ( as you claim) will have been in vein. So to me that seems like an easy victory for Putin, do nothing and “he wins” - which seems like quite a foolishly throughout plan then by the Americans to start with - no ??

[Moses]

Russian military entirely surrounding Ukraine. Moses, you and you alone I think are claiming this is propaganda. Even Putin admits they are there but says it's a training exercise.

I can draw to you another map where Russian troops will surround USA, or where US troops will surround Moscow.

Lets talk about facts: it clearly stated by both sides what 100 000+ "Russian troops" are located near Yelnya. "Yelnya" is clearly written in NYT article, sounds from mouths of White House officials.

I just attracting your attention to this fact. Do you know where Yelnya is located? On the way from Europe to Russia - on the west from Moscow.

In 1812 armies of Napoleon lost half of solders in forests and marshes near Yelnya.
In 1941 Hitler's armies got first lost battle exactly near Yelnya - from first Russian battalion with famous "Katusha" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher

Yelnya is laying far from the way from Russia to Ukraine. Yelnya is place of basing Russian Western military group.

[StevieWonders]

Before his Crimea “adventure” Putin whipped up public support in the Russian mass media. Nothing similar is happening now. For a successful war national leaders must prepare their civilian population for the body bags

[arsenal]

137000 troops in Yelmya!!!

"Well I do hope the bars and cafes are well stocked."
Blackadder

No one knows what's going to happen and as I've said, I don't think Putin will invade but after 22 years as unchallenged leader (18 as president) his mindset is questionable. But there seems no doubt he wants a fight with someone.

[cdnmatt]

Before his Crimea “adventure” Putin whipped up public support in the Russian mass media. Nothing similar is happening now. For a successful war national leaders must prepare their civilian population for the body bags


Yeah, true enough. I don't know what the hell Putin is doing. Seems like this little adventure of his is only going to result in really two things:

1. Ukraine's weapons stockpiles will grow immensely.
2. Sweden and Finland will swiftly join NATO.

[StevieWonders]

Yeah, true enough. I don't know what the hell Putin is doing. Seems like this little adventure of his is only going to result in really two things:

1. Ukraine's weapons stockpiles will grow immensely.
2. Sweden and Finland will swiftly join NATO.

With your strategic understanding and your IT skills I’m surprised the CSIS hasn’t snapped you up

[arsenal]

The security council is meeting this week. The UK foreign secretary is going to Ukraine and Moscow while the defence secretary is heading to Ukraine. My goodness, this 'propaganda' that Moses believes is certainly gaining momentum.



https://news.sky.com/story/putins-oligarchs-will-have-nowhere-to-hide-with-widened-sanctions-if-russia-invades-ukraine-as-uk-rules-nothing-out-12528608

[StevieWonders]

The security council is meeting this week.This would be the self-same Security Council before which Colin Powell solemnly laid out his incontrovertible evidence for Iraq’s possession of weapons of mass distraction (WMD) is it?

Apposite

[latintopxxx]

...wish u wouold stop talking about crimea...it was only ikraine's by a whim of the ussr pressie...vast majority of the people are Russian...

[arsenal]

"This would be the self-same Security Council before which Colin Powell solemnly laid out his incontrovertible evidence for Iraq’s possession of weapons of mass distraction (WMD) is it?

Apposite"

The relevance to my point?

[Moses]

1. Ukraine's weapons stockpiles will grow immensely.


It will be not for long time: they will sell it to some "regime" with which other countries have no trade. Like they sold at past ballistic missiles to Iran or draws of rocket engines to North Korea at past. Ukraine is one of the most corrupted countries in the World.

[Moses]

...wish u wouold stop talking about crimea...it was only ikraine's by a whim of the ussr pressie...vast majority of the people are Russian...

And most important: Crimea was Ukrainian only for 50 years and it was only because of more comfortable logistic without crossing of republican borders with corresponding formalities. So in 1960s it was moved to Ukraine.

USSR map 1950

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By the way: main Crimean city Sevastopol - the base of USSR/Russia navy never been Ukrainian - it always stand Russian.

12219

[arsenal]

I've always blamed Jeremy Clarkson for the annexation of Crimea. In February 2014 he and his fellow Top Gear presenters drove around the former Soviet submarine base like they owned it. I'm convinced this angered Putin so much that a week or two later he invaded out of fury.

[Moses]

I've always blamed Jeremy Clarkson for the annexation of Crimea. In February 2014 he and his fellow Top Gear presenters drove around the former Soviet submarine base like they owned it. I'm convinced this angered Putin so much that a week or two later he invaded out of fury.

Balaklava - formerly base and now museum is free to visit to everyone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_museum_complex_Balaklava

[StevieWonders]

Balaklava - formerly base and now museum is free to visit to everyone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_museum_complex_BalaklavaIs there any quarantine or prior testing requirements to visit the area?

[Moses]

Is there any quarantine or prior testing requirements to visit the area?

Negative PCR test within 48 hours before arrival to Russia, fill form of arrival on the border, PCR test within 72 hours after arrival in any laboratory and quarantine till results. Typical time for results is 12-24 hours, so you may to make test right after arrival - in city and wait till next day. No specific hotels are designated, but hostels are forbidden for that purpose. Russia recognize vaccination only for citizens of countries what recognize any Russian vaccine

For to avoid future problems I suggest to arrive to any "officially Russian" airport like Moscow, Sankt-Petersburg or some southern cities like Rostov-on-Don and so on and then to take short local flight for to avoid Crimean entry stamp in your passport since with "Crimean stamp" you will lost ability to visit Ukraine in the future. But if you don't care then you may buy ticket directly to Simferopol - the capital of Crimea, it has international airport what is able to get even B-787 aircrafts.

From Simferopol airport you may take bus (or taxi) ride to Sevastopol (100 km) and then to visit Balaklava just by city buses or by local taxi (it is located very close to Sevastopol). Sevastopol itself is very interesting not only as a Naval base, but also has museums and sites from very old time - Greeks, Rome Imperia, ancient mountain cities (cave cities), Russian-Turkey war, residences and palaces of Russian tsars. The best time to visit is second half of September (not so hot, warm sea, isn't that crowded like at summer, Crimean vine of new season).

https://top10a.ru/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/lastochkino_gnezdo_swallow_nest2-1shyu.jpg

https://www.culture.ru/storage/images/30e1d9fc00d7195d7d18dff8c6a188e5/064dcdadd9a8a1a7ea89936fdf49f38c.jpeg

https://rybins.ru/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/20160607_12_23_48_IMG_5562.jpg

https://pix-feed.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/2-20.jpg

https://turgeek.ru/upload/tour/images_more/7108/big-3-krymskij-treugolnik.jpg

https://avatars.mds.yandex.net/get-zen_doc/1852570/pub_5d5042dbbc228f00b39ee40f_5d5052c48da1ce00ad5ed a16/scale_1200

https://mir-tourista.ru/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/619244_main.jpg

http://muzteatr.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/EqhQIN3W4AA1-1j.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JDKZUHRHQ84/maxresdefault.jpg

https://of-crimea.ru/plug/gallery/chufut-kale/chufut-kale-1.jpg

[NitNoi]

Moses, I respect you and have learned from your posts - but you seem very biased this time. While you may strongly believe that Ukraine should never join NATO, Mr Putin's demands are provocative.

[Moses]

Moses, I respect you and have learned from your posts - but you seem very biased this time. While you may strongly believe that Ukraine should never join NATO, Mr Putin's demands are provocative.

Let me remind you Caribbean crisis. At that time USSR "strongly believes" what Cuba may join Warsaw pact. Do you remember how it was?

What about Venezuela this time? Should Venezuela accept Russian invitation and to join https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization ? Maybe together with Cuba? US will be crying about danger for national interest form every iron then. And they will try to make next revolution there or even to invide and to kill Maduro like they did few years ago.

[arsenal]

You lost the cold war. America was strong enough to stop the Soviet Union placing nuclear weapons on Cuba but Russia couldn't stop the Baltic states joining NATO. Your allies now!!! Belarus.

[Moses]

Your allies now!!! Belarus.

You will jump out of your pants after next my word: China.
Also Collective Security Treaty Organization has now 6 members, you know...

Already at time of Obama it has been officially said by US president: Russian army is second powerful army in world and 6th largest economy in World by GDP PPP.

[dinagam]

What will be the best way to resolve this issue is a process of transformation of this land into a federal government with each little state having an agreed to amount of autonomy to accommodate language/culture/religion/etc interests. If the present government continues with its belligerent ways playing into the hands of NATO and Biden, Russia has no choice but to make a surgical cut to exercise the cancerous growth and restore order to her immediate neighbour. Putin is just the knight in shining armour in this situation.

[a447]

If the US couldn't accept Russian missiles on Cuba, why should Russia accept US missiles right on its border should Ukraine ever join NATO?

[Moses]

into a federal government with each little state having an agreed to amount of autonomy to accommodate language/culture/religion/etc interests

You just made crime under Ukrainian law (7 years in prison). By modern Ukrainian constitution Ukraine is unitary state. Russian language, Tatar language (do you remember Crimean Tatars?), Hungarian and Romanian languages are forbidden in Ukraine for to use in official and any commercial communication, on TV and radio. Now already second modern govt in Ukraine is controlled by nationalists from western districts.

BBС report from 2014 clearly stated what power has been seized by Nazi battalions like "Azov" (google it). Legal elected president has been pushed our of country. And West recognizes it as a legal power now. It sounds crazy, but it is real situation. Why? Because of Russia - it makes Russia a little bit more weak, than in situation when Russia has "security belt" btw NATO and own territory.

When Crimea was Autonomous republic within Ukraine at USSR time and late under Ukrainian pro-kremlin govt, nobody spoke about moving to Russia. Only after win of Nazi, Autonomous Republic of Crimea moved to Russia by national voting. There were no Russian invasion to Crimea - Russian bases existed there for many decades. Crimea just voted and joined Russia. NO ONE shoot heared on Crimea peninsula at that time. Ukrainian military forces just ran out, because they knew - they will have no support from Russian who are living there and are 2/3 of population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea

Very known photo: Ukrainian army battalion marching by Crimean road out of peninsula in 2014. They were allowed to leave, but not allowed to take weapon with them. You see no any Russian military around. It wasn't necessary - they knew they have no support in Crimea, they have one only way - out.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMy5yaQWEAYc032.jpg

[arsenal]

Well this site chosen at random has your economy as 11th not 6th, about half that of the UK.

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/

And as for China being your ally!!! In your wildest imagination.you don't seriously expect China to stand by you do you? In geoppolitical yerms China is as unreliable as it gets. They'll hang you out to dry.

[Moses]

Well this site chosen at random has your economy as 11th not 6th


and 6th largest economy in World by GDP PPP.

If you don't know difference btw GDP and GDP PPP, I can't help to you then, sorry. It is useless to discus GDP when you compare countries because of part of internal consuming - 70-80% of GDP is produced and consumed within the same country, so you must to calculate PPP index which depends on local currencies and prices. Big Mac in Chicago and Big Mac in Deli have 5 time difference in prices, but by fact they bring to GDP just the value of one Big Mac each and must be counted equal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

[goji]

GDP PPP makes perfect sense, but surely only on a per capita basis ?

Russia is well up the list in 74th place.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Then we could speculate about how much of that is creamed off by the leadership.

[Moses]

GDP PPP makes perfect sense, but surely only on a per capita basis ?


No. It is totally different index: GDP PPP per capita shows not power of country's economy but workforce productivity. I.e. amount of goods and services what is manufactured by one citizen.

look at your URL: anybody here count #1 Lichtenstein the most powerful economy in world? and China is #100? Seriously?

[arsenal]

PPP is a smokescreen. It doesn't give you any more actual money to spend, it just means wages are lower. Cheap Big Macs won't help you in a drawn out conflict in eastern Europe.

I'm glad you're not pursuing the China as allies line, that too is a smokescreen.

History will record Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Empire as a tragedy. You could have taken any path but instead you elect a gangster who after 22 years of being mocked, ridiculed and reviled has finally gone into paranoia.

[Moses]

History will record Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Empire as a tragedy. You could have taken any path but instead you elect a gangster who after 22 years of being mocked, ridiculed and reviled has finally gone into paranoia.

Since collapse of USSR Russia grew GDP many times and now is 6th economic in World, and Putin still has votes of majority of population. Isn't that you call democracy?

Speaking about paranoia and paranoids lets take a look in US: even Ukraine accuses US in paranoia and sowing panic now https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-28/ukraine-accuses-u-s-of-hurting-economy-by-sowing-panic-over-war

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/28/politics/us-ukraine-biden-zelensky/index.html

[cdnmatt]

When Crimea was Autonomous republic within Ukraine at USSR time and late under Ukrainian pro-kremlin govt, nobody spoke about moving to Russia. Only after win of Nazi, Autonomous Republic of Crimea moved to Russia by national voting. There were no Russian invasion to Crimea - Russian bases existed there for many decades. Crimea just voted and joined Russia. NO ONE shoot heared on Crimea peninsula at that time. Ukrainian military forces just ran out, because they knew - they will have no support from Russian who are living there and are 2/3 of population

And the reason there were so many Russians in Crimea is because Stalin kicked all the Tartar's out and displaced them to Asia, then proceeded to move tons of Russians into Crimea.

Putin needs to learn to allow the Ukrainian people to choose their own future. This all started back in 1991 when the Soviet Union broke up, and since then Russia has been trying to get Ukraine back. For the first approx decade they tried diplomacy, and upon realizing that's not going to work, they decided a different tact was in order.

After some election rigging and poisoning of the opposition, Russia managed to get their guy Yanukovych in as Prime Minister. This only lasted a few years before Ukrainians decided they don't want a Russian puppet as Prime Minister, and the Orange Revolution happened. I'm sure we all remember those protests, as they were quite violent (eg. molotov cocktails being thrown on police). Yanukovych fled to Russia before the protesters got to him.

Putin decided, "fuck this, at the very least I need Crimea for my naval bases on the Black Sea and those sweet sweet natural resources". This was a pretty easy win since Stalin already laid the ground work by exiling all the Tartars from the region to central Asia and replacing them with Russian citizens.

Ukraine continued to drift more to the West sparking talks of joining the EU and NATO. Putin's like the jealous boyfriend who can't accept the break up,so now we have 127,000 Russiian troops in place and ready to invade. From Putin's perspective, tens of millions of Russian citizens were displaced and are now lost and struggling outside of their motherland. He's trying to put the family back together, kind of thing.

Unfortunately for Putin, tens of millions of Ukrainians starved to death under Stalin's rule due to his agriculture policies, so many of them aren't exactly overly enthusiastic to rejoin the mother land.

Putin needs to learn to let Ukraine do what they want, in the same vein that the US needs to immediately life all embargos against Cuba and let Cuba do what they want. The US can't possibly allow a liberal socialist nation to thrive and propser though giving people an alternative perspective, so that's not going to happen, but that's a whole different discussion.

[Moses]

After some election rigging and poisoning of the opposition, Russia managed to get their guy Yanukovych in as Prime Minister. This only lasted a few years before Ukrainians decided they don't want a Russian puppet as Prime Minister, and the Orange Revolution happened. I'm sure we all remember those protests, as they were quite violent (eg. molotov cocktails being thrown on police). Yanukovych fled to Russia before the protesters got to him.

Where you find information with so many mistakes??? Yanukovitch wasn't PM, he was legally elected president of Ukraine.
Let me show to you "orange revolution". Kiev capital of Ukraine now.

https://cont.ws/uploads/pic/2018/2/12162122_1472339123074085_1486676960_o.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dbds2JNW0AASwLl.jpg

https://www.politnavigator.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/DbdyRW1X4AEHI0N.jpg

https://cont.ws/uploads/posts2/326794.jpg

https://politrussia.com/upload/iblock/753/75386c6c16f80b10e054231a3b6c563f.jpg

These people are in power now. They made disorders what you call "orange revolution". They call them self "Right sector" - do you see black-red flags? Nazi and nationalists. You can watch their fire lighted marches by Kiev yearly at January 1. Google "Bandera marches Kiev" and look in youtube.

Well, looks like attack on Capitol not far ago was also "orange revolution"? How did you say? "7 year in prison"???

[Moses]

======== decided they don't want a Russian puppet as Prime Minister==========

Right!
We even have proof of Russian manipulations: on the picture Russian official instructs Ukrainian ministers, senators and personally Ukrainian president what to do. Oh, sorry, it is Joe Bidden sits as a chairman on the chair of the leader of Ukrainian Parliament. And on right side like a student or manager sits Ukrainian president Petr Poroshenko (first from right).

Correct. No more puppet masters!!! Now it is totally independent country!

https://cont.ws/uploads/posts2/195192.jpg

US will fight with corruption in Ukraine! Right.
Oh, sorry, what we see here? Hunter Biden (right) as a director of 3rd largest Ukrainian gas company Burisma at time of meetings of directors? For sure it is defamation! Right? And fact what Burisma became 3rd largest after H.Biden become director has nothing with name of his father.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/G4r0DWaCFnE/maxresdefault.jpg

[cdnmatt]

Moses, Ukraine is quite obviously trying to distance itself from Russia. There's kind of no way you can misread that.

Don't worry, if the Ukrainian people don't like what's happening, they've quite clearly demonstrated they have no problem taking to the streets and letting their government know they're pissed off.

[Moses]

Moses, Ukraine is quite obviously trying to distance itself from Russia. There's kind of no way you can misread that.


Not "Ukraine". But current nationalistic and corrupted Ukrainian government is trying to distance. They got support from US for to make coup d'état, ohhh, sorry, "orange revolution" at 2014 and now serve new owner.


Don't worry, if the Ukrainian people don't like what's happening, they've quite clearly demonstrated they have no problem taking to the streets and letting their government know they're pissed off.

Exactly that was in Crimea at 2014. And now you call that "Russian aggression".

Exactly that was in 2014 at the East of Ukraine in Donbas and now you call them separatists, but they just want have rights to speak Russian, to write Russian, to send their kids to schools with study in Russian, to watch Ukrainian TV in Russian language. Because they are Russians. There was "local language law" under Yanukovich that gave them warranty to save their identity, and now it is canceled.

Russia wants them within Ukraine. Russia does not recognize declared by them Donetsk People Republic and Lugansk People Republic. Ukrainian army kills them one by one. Russia supports them by humanitarian goods and weaponry. There is Minsk agreement signed by Ukraine in 2014 for to normalize situation. And Ukraine 7 years already does nothing to make steps what it took in obligation by this signed agreement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_Protocol

[cdnmatt]

Again, Crimea is a bit of a different beast. Stalin moved all the Tartars out, and moved Russian citizens in, hence wasn't exactly much resistance when Russian soldiers showed up to annex the place.

[Moses]

Again, Crimea is a bit of a different beast. Stalin moved all the Tartars out, and moved Russian citizens in, hence wasn't exactly much resistance when Russian soldiers showed up to annex the place.

Whatever Stalin did - Crimea was to that time already few centuries as a part of Russia. Russia got Crimea from Turkey at time of Ekaterina II.

Stalin did his bad things, but Stalin never changed Russian status of Crimea. It "always" (at least few centuries) was Russian Crimea. Point. Fact what at time of Khruschev Crimea was send under Ukrainian control doesn't make Crimea and especially Sevastopol Ukrainian.

If you don't like Russia you may count "Russia gave, Russia took back", But if you want to understand situation then pay attention: Crimea voted to be independent and voted to join Russia in referendums. It is the same Autonomous Republic of Crimea since October 1921.

[StevieWonders]

Again, Crimea is a bit of a different beast. Stalin moved all the Tartars out, and moved Russian citizens in, hence wasn't exactly much resistance when Russian soldiers showed up to annex the place.How do you feel Matt about the news that Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Chernyshenko has reportedly signed a roadmap to regulate crypto operations in Russia? The news comes after Russia's central bank published a consultation paper that proposed a blanket ban on crypto-related activity in the country. Where now Bitcoin in Russia?

[cdnmatt]

Governments can try to impose whatever laws and regulations against bitcoi they want, makes no difference to me. Trying to regulate bitcoin is outside of their jurisdiction and powers. They know this, which is why most governments around the world have done nothing against bitcoin except basically shrug their shoulders, and added a few lines to tax forms with hopes people will voluntarily submit their crypto holdings, because that's all they can really do.

[StevieWonders]

Negative PCR test within 48 hours before arrival to Russia, fill form of arrival on the border, PCR test within 72 hours after arrival in any laboratory and quarantine till results. Typical time for results is 12-24 hours, so you may to make test right after arrival - in city and wait till next day. Fairly similar to the original Test & Go programme in Thailand? And are there fuckable Crimean boys?

[Moses]

Fairly similar to the original Test & Go programme in Thailand? And are there fuckable Crimean boys?

There are a lot of money boys at time of high season (May-October), but you should find them via applications like Hornet or Grindr or Blued, for me it looks like about 1/3 of Ukrainian gay boys migrating to Crimea at that time... Most of them does not speak English because of poor Ukrainian education.

By the way: Crimea is a little bit more expensive than Turkey is and has lower hospitality standards.

Typical guys. Most of them will be tops, just small amount will be twinks :

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/75/30/fc/7530fcaa5a15598a0f9e3e686db785ae.jpg

[StevieWonders]

Typical guys. Most of them will be tops, just small amount will be twinks”Gay for pay” then? Last time I was in Istanbul (on my way to Bavaria) the money boys were mostly from Eastern Europe

[alvnv]

...wish u wouold stop talking about crimea...it was only ikraine's by a whim of the ussr pressie...vast majority of the people are Russian...
Only because Russians conducted ethic cleansing of Crimea by deporting Crimean Tatars - an act recognized as genocide by some countries

[alvnv]

And most important: Crimea was Ukrainian only for 50 years and it was only because of more comfortable logistic without crossing of republican borders with corresponding formalities. So in 1960s it was moved to Ukraine.

12219

By that logic, it was Russian for less than 200 years, while it was Ottoman for almost twice as long - does that mean that Turkey should lay claims on it now?

[dinagam]

Only because Russians conducted ethic cleansing of Crimea by deporting Crimean Tatars - an act recognized as genocide by some countries

A similar act was carried out by the forefathers of the fake blind man from Canada but not a tweet from him regarding the truck convoys and protests against the beautiful boy Trudeau oppressive government.

[cdnmatt]

A similar act was carried out by the forefathers of the fake blind man from Canada but not a tweet from him regarding the truck convoys and protests against the beautiful boy Trudeau oppressive government.

You do know that sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, right?

You took a few words from several totally different and unrelated situations, and mashed them together somehow with I guess of hopes of making some kind of point... somehow?

You must be suffering from aphasia, or something. I'm sure you meant to make some sort of valid point, for example, not sure why I would be sending out tweets on SGT. This isn't Twitter.

[StevieWonders]

By that logic, it was Russian for less than 200 years, while it was Ottoman for almost twice as long - does that mean that Turkey should lay claims on it now?There are similar claims all the time by indigenous “spokesmen” with a chip on their shoulder about the “invasions” by Europeans they suffered/endured. My answer is that “we” have ALL endured them at one time or another - the Romans “invaded” much of Europe and Asia Minor. The Normans invaded, occupied and to a certain extent ethnically cleansed England from 1066 onwards. The indigenes are carrying out a form of cultural appropriation by claiming one of Rousseau’s main ideas as their own - “the Noble Savage”

[dinagam]

You do know that sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, right?

You took a few words from several totally different and unrelated situations, and mashed them together somehow with I guess of hopes of making some kind of point... somehow?

You must be suffering from aphasia, or something. I'm sure you meant to make some sort of valid point, for example, not sure why I would be sending out tweets on SGT. This isn't Twitter.

See!
You don't have issues with spelling at all!

[arsenal]

"There are similar claims all the time by indigenous “spokesmen” with a chip on their shoulder about the “invasions” by Europeans they suffered/endured. My answer is that “we” have ALL endured them at one time or another - the Romans “invaded” much of Europe and Asia Minor. The Normans invaded, occupied and to a certain extent ethnically cleansed England from 1066 onwards. The indigenes are carrying out a form of cultural appropriation by claiming one of Rousseau’s main ideas as their own - “the Noble Savage”"

It seems we are a seamless garment on this issue. 'My ancestors came here 12000 years ago therefore I'm entitled to...Connecticut.' And for once I'm not criticising you but they've stopped using the word "indigenous' because of it's innacuracy and started calling themselves 'first nations'. Now if you'll excuse me I'm seeking reparations from the Vikings, the Normans and of course, the Romans.

[cdnmatt]

See!
You don't have issues with spelling at all!

What? Yes, I do know how to spell.

Yes, I make typos sometimes, all depending on how quickly I'm typing (and how many drinks I have in me :)). Again, you're not making any sense whatsoever.

[dinagam]

Because you have been drinking big time..

[StevieWonders]

It seems we are a seamless garment on this issue. 'My ancestors came here 12000 years ago therefore I'm entitled to...Connecticut.' And for once I'm not criticising you but they've stopped using the word "indigenous' because of it's innacuracy and started calling themselves 'first nations'. Now if you'll excuse me I'm seeking reparations from the Vikings, the Normans and of course, the Romans.I'm pleased to hear you'll be joining me in my various class actions. As for "calling themselves" I understand that drag queens are often calling themselves "trans" and sometimes "gender diverse" nowadays although I prefer "fantasists" myself. I am "age diverse"

[Dodger]

Nothing confusing about this crap at all:

Putin's been creaming in his jeans to rebuild the Soviet Union since birth. This is all he thinks about...his perceived legacy.

There's only one direction to go, and that's West, unless he wants to attack penguins in Siberia.

Will he attack Ukraine in the near-future? No

Why? Because the U.S. and it's NATO allies don't want another Soviet Union. Been there - done that.

What's next? Putin agrees to remove some (not all) troops from Ukraine's border in exchange for a partial (with conditions) gas contract with Germany to save face and keep money flowing in the oligarchs pockets. He'll regroup somewhere down-the-road...develop another strategy for expanding into Europe...and round and round the wheel turns.

How did Putin blunder? A miscalculation: Predicting that NATO, which has been a bit fragmented lately, would not band together as tightly as they have to stop him in his tracks.

Hopefully, Ukraine will one day be approved for membership in NATO so they don't continue to be used as a pawn in a chess game between giants. I imagine the people there might be just a little more comfortable going to bed at night without having missiles aimed at their front doors. Just a guess.

On a personal note: I just wish all those Ukrainian and Russian boys would put those nasty weapons down and get together for some skinny-dipping in a local pond. There's some real dolls over there (on both sides) wasting there time and energy on all this war nonsense. They should get all those Hot Rockets they have pointed in the right direction, and straight up my welcoming ass would be a start.

[Moses]

Only because Russians conducted ethic cleansing of Crimea by deporting Crimean Tatars - an act recognized as genocide by some countries

Stalin was Georgian, not Russian.

Recognizing this "genocide" by Ukraine... well, country that implementing "language law", denies autonomy right for any nationality within Ukraine... does it has sense?

[cdnmatt]

Stalin was Georgian, not Russian.

haha, classic Moses.

And Hitler was Austrian, but you don't see anyone blaming Vienna for WWII, now do you?

[Moses]

haha, classic Moses.

And Hitler was Austrian, but you don't see anyone blaming Vienna for WWII, now do you?

Within Soviet Union you can't blame "Russians" for all what has been happened. That is "typical" for Ukrainian propaganda now.

Ukrainian and Russian languages has words distinguishing nationality and country of origin: "Russians" as a nationality and "Rossians" as a pointer to country of origin (artificial word just created by me for to explain how it works here, in Russian transcription: "Russkie" and "Rossiyane"). All citizens of Russia are "Rossiyane", but Ukrainian propaganda still blame "Russians" despite half of Bolsheviks were Jewish, Stalin was Georgian and so on.

At time of USSR here was construct "Soviet people", like "Americans" in US. You can blame communists and Communist Party as persons and organization that made this deportation, but blame "Russians" for that is unfair and racisms.

By the way: look on countries what recognize deportation of Crimean Tatars as a genocide:

- Ukraine. Do I need to comment what country does not allow federalism and insist what no nation may have autonomy within Ukraine, what only language for official use and for any communications with official, also on TV and newspapers must be Ukrainian? Language in schools must be Ukrainian. No local languages are allowed despite Ukraine has regions with huge population of Hungarians, Gagauz, Russians. There is "Language Police" that checks what language uses sellers in shops and on markets, what language uses bus drivers for to communicate with passengers. There left less than 1% of schools with teaching on Russian language, since 2014 most schools with Russian language were closed.

- Latvia. Country where exists segregation - 2 sorts of citizens: "Citizen" with passport of citizen who may vote on elections and with passport of "non-citizen" who can't vote on election. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-citizens_(Latvia). Country which expels more than half million of Russians from territory by declaring them "non-citizen". There were over 750000 Russian citizens of Latvia in 1991 and now there are less then 200000.

- Canada. Should we speak about destiny of indigenous people and their genocide? Matt, tell me please does Canada recognize tragedy of indigenous people as a genocide?

[Moses]

Do you have question why some regions rebel after "language law" and trying to run from Ukraine after nationalists got power in Ukraine?

12224

[goji]

No. It is totally different index: GDP PPP per capita shows not power of country's economy but workforce productivity. I.e. amount of goods and services what is manufactured by one citizen.

look at your URL: anybody here count #1 Lichtenstein the most powerful economy in world? and China is #100? Seriously?

Who wants to be sat at home in some crappy little appartment in Vladivostok thinking about how powerful my country is ?
Give me Liechtenstein GDP per capita any day of the week.

[Dodger]

I wonder which side he's on?

Would it matter?

[NitNoi]

Moses, your reference to Cuba is valid. Are we on a path to nuclear war again?
Ukraine in NATO destabilizes the "Mutual Assured Destruction" balance that has kept us safe for seventy years.
An alternative could be granting Cuba the same armament rights as Ukraine. Would that work?

[a447]

An alternative could be granting Cuba the same armament rights as Ukraine. Would that work?

Times have changed.

I'd be surprised if Cuba would accept Russian missiles on its soil these days.

But it would be interesting to see the US reaction should that suggestion be made. They would have a very difficult time criticising such a move.

[Moses]

Moses, your reference to Cuba is valid. Are we on a path to nuclear war again?
Ukraine in NATO destabilizes the "Mutual Assured Destruction" balance that has kept us safe for seventy years.
An alternative could be granting Cuba the same armament rights as Ukraine. Would that work?

I'm not Putin, you know...
But as per my opinion: if Ukraine wants to be within EU - great. This isn't Russia's business. But when Gorbachov had talks with EU there were said: Russia agrees with join of two Germanies in exchange of not moving warheads more close to Moscow. Do you remember? USSR/Russia had nuclear warheads in East Germany and had army's bases also. Warheads were removed by USSR, soviet army hasn't bases in East Germany anymore (while US still has), and Germanies are one country since that time.

But since that time NATO bases been moved more close to Moscow: Hungary, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia. Ballistic rockets are based in Poland now. What next? Should Russia wait till last "security belt" will fail? There is only Ukraine and Belorussia btw NATO and Russia now.

It is clearly visible, what "orange revolutions" were inspired in Ukraine (one failed, next successful) and Belorussia (twice failed) from outside. Look at Nulland and Biden photos from Ukraine'2014.

So NATO's bases right near Russian borders are unacceptable for Russia. My opinion - Ukraine should be in EU if it wants, but should keep neutral status like Finland does for decades and nobody cares: nor Finland, nor Russia - there are no tensions on that border at all, and Finish tourists are next to Chinese in quantity in Sankt-Petersburg. Finland is smart enough for not to wake up sleeping bear.

By the way: these talks about "Russia must to keep to pump gas via Ukrainian pipeline" are also unbelievable pushy. That pipeline has been laid at time when main Russian gas source was located at the south of Ural region near the border with Kazakhstan. And that pipeline been used for decades for to pump gas from Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan (both in Central Asia) and from the South Ural because Ukraine lays on direct line btw gas sources and gas customers.

Right now Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan sell gas to China. Gas sources on South Ural are almost empty. So Russia has nothing to pump via Ukrainian pipeline. But EU still insist what Russia should pump gas via this pipeline even when main gas sources are located on far North - Yamal and regions around. North stream is twice shorter. EU wants Russian gas to be pumped from North to South and only then to Europe. Are you sure what it is economically correct idea for Russia? I repeat: economically.

EU cries: "keep pumping !!!", because Ukraine will lose about US$ 3 bln yearly on gas transit if Russia will stop to sell gas via that pipeline. Why Russia should care? EU wants Ukraine to be with. Well. If you want Ukraine - feed them yourself then. Your satellite is your care now. Russian care is to sell gas and to have profit, and that includes to cut expenses on gas transit.

EU: you should cry on Norway then - they sell gas directly to Germany. Push them to transit gas via Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland at first and only then to Germany. Anyway you are sponsoring these countries - let Norway to do it instead, they are rich. Why I hear "No"?

[cdnmatt]

An alternative could be granting Cuba the same armament rights as Ukraine. Would that work?

No, those are two totally different things. The EU and NATO don't want Russia starting a massive war in their backyard, hence the defensive posture they've taken. Whereas Russia installing missiles in Ciba again would be an aggressive posture.

While we're on the topic of Cuba though, now there's an absolutely amazing story. Cuba has better life expectency, infant mortality, literacy rates among many others than the US. And they managed to do it all under crushing sanctions. Just imagine what they could do if those embagos were lifted.

The US just can't bare to see a socialist country thrive though, so we can't have that. I remember a while back some anti-governemnt protesters popped up in Cuba again, most likely backed by the US govt. Cubans know this game all too well though, so immediately there were absolutely massive protests to tell the anti-government protesters to fuck off.

Even the mainstream media was scrambling to try and make a story out of it. To try and show how large the anti-government protests were, Fox News even got caught using footage from a May Day parade a couple years before that, haha.

[Moses]

No, those are two totally different things. The EU and NATO don't want Russia starting a massive war in their backyard, hence the defensive posture they've taken. Whereas Russia installing missiles in Ciba again would be an aggressive posture.

Yes, yes. EU and NATO. They are peaceful and never attack other countries. Meanwhile Russia always do it!!!

I have proofs:
- Japan. Russians dropped 2 nuclear bombs to Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945! It was totally barbarian act. Over 500 000 died. Sorry, it was US.
- Vietnam. Russia started war there in 1956. What? US did that? OK
- Lebanon. 1958 Russian occupation of the port and international airport of Beirut. Not? Again US? Well, you are picky too much.
- Cuba 1961. Bay of Pigs Invasion by Russians. Nooooo! Not Americans! Russians!!! Oh. Ok, Americans.
- 1964 Congo. Simba Rebellions were suppressed by Russians and democratic movement has been defeated. Don't tell me what there again were Americans
- 1965-1973 Russia has been defeated in Vietnam war! Well... I don't know why everywhere on photos are American flags, don't ask.

(here I will omit short incidents in Korea, Thailand, Dominican Rep, where Russians for sure were involved)

- 1966-1967 Bolivia Russian oppressing of Che Guevara's guerrilla forces. Che Guevara captured and executed. Really? It again was Americans? Sorry

(here I will omit short incidents in Libya, Lebanon, Zaire, Grenada, Iran (1981) where Russians for sure were involved)

- 1989-1990 Russian invasion to Panama with regime changes. No-no-no-no! It was Russians!!! How you may say what Sun of Democracy - US - may be involved into invasion and to change regime??? For sure Russians had installed here own puppet.

Ok. Next
- 1991–2003 intervention to Iraq. United States, United Kingdom, France, Australia, Belgium, Netherlands, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Italy. Do you see? No one member of NATO is involved. Only Russian barbars.

- 1992–1995 first Russian intervention to Somali. Participants: United States, United Kingdom, Spain, Italy, Greece, Germany, France, Canada, Belgium, Australia, New Zealand. Again no one NATO member!!! Only Russians

- 1992–1995 Yugoslav war. Russians against will of Security Council destroyed country and now there are peaceful snakes nest. No one NATO member has been involved. See? - no one: United States, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom

- 1994–1995 Haiti. Russian re-installment of regime. Only Russians: United States, Poland, Argentine

- 1998–1999 Kosovo war. Snakes nest has been divided to few more. Participant are only outside of NATO: United States, Belgium, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Poland, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom

==== XXI century ====
- 20 years of Afghan war
- 2002 and still - Maghreb region
- 2002 and still now Enduring Freedom – Horn of Africa
- 2003–2011 Iraq war. Do you remember Russian general Powell in UN with pity claims about mass-destroying weapons in small glass tube?
- 2011 Russian military intervention in Libya. Participants: United States, United Kingdom, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Denmark, France, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Romania, Spain, Turkey, Sweden. Result legal president has been killed. And now already 10 years there is going peaceful and colorful civil war.

I again will omit series of small and not so small conflicts

Syria. Now seriously: Russia is only state army that has been officially invited there by Syrian government. What "defensive postures" does there US and other half of NATO???

And let me remind you: there is one annexations in Europe now . It is Cyprus, by 2 members of NATO: Turkey and UK.

And few worlds to Americans: why you vote for idiots on the Hill? Listen them: "Russia does nothing yet, but it may do, so we need to apply preventive sanctions". Seriously? Right, lets do sanctions and hope Russia will not answer. Who elected such idiots???

Whole past decade, step by step, US and NATO pushing Russia to East. China is waiting for to hug Russia and smiles widely. Do you really need union of second and third strongest armies in World and 6th and 1st economies? EU! You are at the same continent. You will be unavoidable involved.

[cdnmatt]

I hate when people use that as their argument. "well, they did bad shit too, so it's totally fine if we do bad shit".

That's just really not a good argument.

[StevieWonders]

I hate when people use that as their argument. "well, they did bad shit too, so it's totally fine if we do bad shit".

That's just really not a good argument.Politicians do it all the time without realising they’re saying “We are no better than our opponents” all the while claiming to be superior

[RonanTheBarbarian]

I'm not Putin, you know...
But as per my opinion: if Ukraine wants to be within EU - great. This isn't Russia's business. But when Gorbachov had talks with EU there were said: Russia agrees with join of two Germanies in exchange of not moving warheads more close to Moscow. Do you remember? USSR/Russia had nuclear warheads in East Germany and had army's bases also. Warheads were removed by USSR, soviet army hasn't bases in East Germany anymore (while US still has), and Germanies are one country since that time.

But since that time NATO bases been moved more close to Moscow: Hungary, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia. Ballistic rockets are based in Poland now. What next? Should Russia wait till last "security belt" will fail? There is only Ukraine and Belorussia btw NATO and Russia now.


I can understand why Russia has that opinion, from a geopolitical viewpoint.

But the fact is, that NATO membership was exceedingly popular (usually pretty much across the political spectrum) in these countries prior to joining.

Russian seems remarkably unreflective on why the counties that it kept so close to it in a forced alliance from 1945 to 1989 were so quick to abandon it after they got the freedom to follow their own wishes.

The Russian establishment response to this seems to be to mutter about the CIA and propaganda etc..

A bit like the drunk at the bar complaining that his children who have been taken into to foster care dont want to visit him any more because "the social workers turned them against me", rather than beacause they have come to realise that he is an abusive drunk.

[RonanTheBarbarian]

Right now Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan sell gas to China. Gas sources on South Ural are almost empty. So Russia has nothing to pump via Ukrainian pipeline. But EU still insist what Russia should pump gas via this pipeline even when main gas sources are located on far North - Yamal and regions around. North stream is twice shorter. EU wants Russian gas to be pumped from North to South and only then to Europe. Are you sure what it is economically correct idea for Russia? I repeat: economically.

EU cries: "keep pumping !!!", because Ukraine will lose about US$ 3 bln yearly on gas transit if Russia will stop to sell gas via that pipeline. Why Russia should care? EU wants Ukraine to be with. Well. If you want Ukraine - feed them yourself then. Your satellite is your care now. Russian care is to sell gas and to have profit, and that includes to cut expenses on gas transit.

Yes of course. Everybody knows that, Russia and Germany want it as well.

Germany, although it is officially a western and NATO ally, always has a certain sense of which it likes to think it can balance a bit between US and Russia.

That is why for the last 20 years or so, Germany has had a very definite policy of wanting to bring in gas straight from Russia via the Baltic Sea in the two Nordstream pipelines (Despite the fact that all US administrations have absolutely hated that idea, as it would make it easier for Russia to mess around with Eastern European and Ukrainian gas supply without adversely affecting customers in Western Europe).

But the problem with that is, that as Germany is in NATO, it can’t be seen to be helping Russia if Russia is being so aggressive in Ukraine. That’s why it has given in to US and NATO pressure and suspended the opening of Nordstream 2.

The Germans are no doubt absolutely mortified that their plan to get a second cheap source of gas has been so messed up, but I am pretty sure that most in Germany lay most of the blame on Putin for this fiasco.

If Putin was as worried about was as focused on the economics of his gas industry as he claims, he would not started the recent aggro, he and he would currently be selling loads of gas to Germany at a high price via the two Nordstream pipelines.

What is actually shows is in fact that with Putin, his geo-strategic foreign policy is more important than the Economics for him.

[Moses]

Yes of course. Everybody knows that, Russia and Germany want it as well.

Germany, although it is officially a western and NATO ally, always has a certain sense of which it likes to think it can balance a bit between US and Russia.

That is why for the last 20 years or so, Germany has had a very definite policy of wanting to bring in gas straight from Russia via the Baltic Sea in the two Nordstream pipelines (Despite the fact that all US administrations have absolutely hated that idea, as it would make it easier for Russia to mess around with Eastern European and Ukrainian gas supply without adversely affecting customers in Western Europe).

But the problem with that is, that as Germany is in NATO, it can’t be seen to be helping Russia if Russia is being so aggressive in Ukraine. That’s why it has given in to US and NATO pressure and suspended the opening of Nordstream 2.

The Germans are no doubt absolutely mortified that their plan to get a second cheap source of gas has been so messed up, but I am pretty sure that most in Germany lay most of the blame on Putin for this fiasco.

If Putin was as worried about was as focused on the economics of his gas industry as he claims, he would not started the recent aggro, he and he would currently be selling loads of gas to Germany at a high price via the two Nordstream pipelines.

What is actually shows is in fact that with Putin, his geo-strategic foreign policy is more important than the Economics for him.

No. North stream started when Ukraine had loyal pro-kremlin govt. So no one your argument is working. Your arguments has no sense. North stream started in project in 1997 when Russia started to pump gas on Yamal - far North of Russia, and name of Russian president was Yeltsin. Late project was warranted by European investors. First gas pumping to Germany has been celebrated in 2011 - 3 years before 2014 when nationalists made seizure of power in Ukraine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream

The only reason why US hate it - North Stream and Russian gas in general are competitors for US LNG. American liquified gas has no chance to be sold in EU because it is up to 25% more expensive even in comparation with liquified Russian gas from Babetta (Yamal, distance). If we will speak about natural gas in pipelines, American LNG is up to 40% more expensive then. US needs to stop North stream (all pipes - 2 working and 2 what are in certification now) and to make deficit of gas in EU for to start to sell in Europe: look at LNG terminals in France or Italy - they are empty. Even now it is hard for US to sell LNG to EU.

[RonanTheBarbarian]

The Finland Idea:

And as for the suggestion by Moses that Ukraine should be a kind of Finland, personally I think that would be a great idea. Given the inevitable geopolitical fact that Russia is a rather large country, with a tradition, like the US, of throwing its weight around militarily, the idea that Belarus and Ukraine could be a non-aligned buffer zone between NATO and Russia is maybe the best route of a long-term stability in far eastern Europe.

Like Dodger, I would much prefer to talking about how cute and sexy Ukrainian men are, rather than all this geopolitical postings (though I’m not sure if I could be persuaded to start referring to handsome fully grown men as “dolls”... perhaps I was raised on the wrong side of the Atlantic for that…)

However, it would have to be the free choice of the people in Ukraine and Belarus to go down this route, like it is a free choice of people in Finland.

And, not that I’m trying to be snarky, but one cannot avoid the notion that if Russia wanted Ukraine to become “Finlandised”, that invading it in 2014 and stealing a fair portion of its territory probably was not the best way to start convincing Ukraine of the benefits of this policy....

[RonanTheBarbarian]

No. North stream started when Ukraine had loyal pro-kremlin govt. So no one your argument is working. Your arguments has no sense. North stream started in project in 1997 when Russia started to pump gas on Yamal - far North of Russia, and name of Russian president was Yeltsin. Late project was warranted by European investors. First gas pumping has been celebrated in 2011 - 3 years before 2014 when nationalists made seizure of power in Ukraine.

Yes, that is why I said eastern Europe AND Ukraine.

Initially the main worry was that Russian could choke off the gas supply to Poland and Visegrad in revenge for then joining NATO, the concern for Ukraine came later, after the colour revolution brought it more on to the US "side".
But it definitely was a concern for far longer than 2014. I remember reading an article in the "Economist" (I think it was) soon after the German ex-Chancellor Schroeder joined the Board of the firm building the pipeline, talking about how the Russians had been willing to pay Schroeder the big bucks to become their spokesman to the West as they anticipated loads of geopolitical tension between the US and Germany, as the Nordsteam 1 got under way.

[Moses]

And, not that I’m trying to be snarky, but one cannot avoid the notion that if Russia wanted Ukraine to become “Finlandised”, that invading it in 2014 and stealing a fair portion of its territory probably was not the best way to start convincing Ukraine of the benefits of this policy....

Russia took Crimea, what always was Russian as historically as entice. Russia took Crimea after their declaration of independency via referendum and after they declared will to join Russian Federation as Autonomous republic.

These "rebels" and "separatists" at the East of Ukraine are different story. UN Red Cross classifying this tenses as a noninternational military conflict. For sure Russia supports regions where Russians diasporas are represented in millions. Money, weapon, humanitarian goods, military instructors. But for 7 years doesnt exists any proof of regular parts of Russian Army on this territory. International observers are there for many years, every minute this territory is under surveillance from satellites. And... nothing.

Russia for 7 years still not recognize these regions as a countries and every Russian declaration has remarks: they are part of Ukraine. Ukraine just has civil war there.

Russian officials almost every day declare: Russia don't wants to intrude to Ukrainian territory unless Ukrainian army will try to eliminate Russian population in this region. In 2014 Ukraine agreed, signed and ratified Minsk protocol with few steps to normalization. "Rebels" did the same - they agreed to every point in protocol and are waiting for its implementation. No one step is implemented still by Ukraine. Also 7 years.

[Moses]

Yes, that is why I said eastern Europe AND Ukraine.

Initially the main worry was that Russian could choke off the gas supply to Poland and Visegrad in revenge for then joining NATO, the concern for Ukraine came later, after the colour revolution brought it more on to the US "side".

Since 1999 Poland has own gas pipeline with Russia (Yamal-EU), Ukraine has nothing with it. Since 1999 till now Russia never used this pipeline as a argument in political discussion.

Czech Republic (Vyshegrad) receives gas from Germany. Only formerly part of Czechoslovakia - Slovakia receives gas via Ukraine.

For over 50 years that Russia supplies EU with gas, no once this deal was linked to any political conditions. No once.

[RonanTheBarbarian]

The only reason why US hate it - North Stream and Russian gas in general are competitors for US LNG. American liquified gas has no chance to be sold in EU because it is up to 25% more expensive even in comparation with liquified Russian gas from Babetta (Yamal, distance). If we will speak about natural gas in pipelines, American LNG is up to 40% more expensive then. US needs to stop North stream (all pipes - 2 working and 2 what are in certification now) and to make deficit of gas in EU for to start to sell in Europe: look at LNG terminals in France or Italy - they are empty. Even now it is hard for US to sell LNG to EU.


It is not the only reason.

I’m sure it is part of the reason, but you sound like those Brexiters who tended to suppose that the EU side was completely motivated by economic concerns, while they had a higher motives. They saw it as perfectly reasonable for the UK to leave the EU despite the economic damage, but when came when it came to the Brexit negotiations, they thought the European side would come under huge pressure from the Italians “because they want to keep selling us their Prosecco” or the that the German would pressure the negotiators to come to a deal “Because the German car manufacturers will insist on it”.

However, it didn’t happen like that, just as I suspect the US government are far less motivated by worries about selling gas than the general strategic picture.

But it’s a moot point anyway, because despite what Americans wanted, there currently exists two pipelines stretching under the Baltic from Russia to Germany, with Nordstream 2 ready to start pumping the gas. The Europeans are well able to see the advantage of cheap Russian gas. The only thing stopping than taking is because they don’t want to pay the political price (within their own countries) of being seen to support Putin.

The chance to sell gas to Europe at cheaper prices than Americans lies entirely within Putins hands. If he stops “acting the maggot“ as we say in Ireland, he can sell the rest of Europe all the gas he wants.

But Putin (and a lot of his supporters online, I notice) seem to prefer to indulge in complicated notions about then whole crisis being an American plot to force Western Europe to buy the more expensive American LNG, than the truth that his current behaviour Is making it politically impossible for EU countries to buy that sweet, sweet, cheap Russian gas that they so crave.

[RonanTheBarbarian]

Moses said, regarding eastern Ukraine,

"For sure Russia supports regions where Russians diasporas are represented in millions. Money, weapon, humanitarian goods, military instructors. But for 7 years doesnt exists any proof of regular parts of Russian Army on this territory."

OK, I will give you that Moses, I am not that expert on the details on the Luhansk and Donetsk situation.

Bit if Russia IS supplying them with "money, weapons, military training, ....and military instructors", you can understand how Ukraine might see it as a difference without much distinction.

I mean, if there was a breakaway movement on Brittany, and Boris Johnson said that the UK government was supplying them with "money, weapons, military training, and military instructors", but (Please note!), no regular UK army soldiers", I would not expect Macron to take it lying down either.

[Moses]

But Putin (and a lot of his supporters online, I notice) seem to prefer to indulge in complicated notions about then whole crisis being an American plot to force Western Europe to buy the more expensive American LNG, than the truth that his current behaviour Is making it politically impossible for EU countries to buy that sweet, sweet, cheap Russian gas that they so crave.

Look at picture. Every day Ukraine cries about hordes of Russian army soldiers who occupies Ukraine. And has no proof. To buy goods from Russia is crime in Ukraine. TO talk real news about Russia is crime in Ukraine. To make TV shows, films, print newspapers in Russian language is crime in Ukraine. Even to teach kids when teacher is Russian speaking is crime.

In Russia we have a lot of Ukrainian goods - they are cheap. E-shops are filled with tens of thousands of positions from Ukraine - Ukraine is one of most corrupted countries in world, so Ukrainian customs will allow to move goods to Russia for small amount of money. Here are no headlines about Ukrainian fails in news.

You know what? Maybe Ukraine thinks what there is war btw Ukraine and Russia, but looks like 7 years ago Russia forgot to came to this war.

[arsenal]

Moses. No one thinks Ukraine is anything other than a corrupt shithole. Back in 1914 Bosnia was a corrupt shithole and yet...Back in 1939 Poland was a corrupt shithole and yet...

That is the concern. Not just Ukraine.

[StevieWonders]

Moses. No one thinks Ukraine is anything other than a corrupt shithole. Back in 1914 Bosnia was a corrupt shithole and yet...Back in 1939 Poland was a corrupt shithole and yet...

That is the concern. Not just Ukraine.
Comments about smoking in brothels always make me smile. The bars where customers smoke have boys who smoke customers.Evidently the same principle about a sodomite interested in shitholes (corrupt or otherwise) applies everywhere. I'm looking forward to more moaning from you about squirrels and moving posts too. You see to have lost the plot over the past few days

[cdnmatt]

Politicians do it all the time without realising they’re saying “We are no better than our opponents” all the while claiming to be superior


Yes, I realize that. Still think it's a distasteful tact.

It's like me sitting in court using the defense, "well, who cares if I killed a couple adults, John Wayne Gacy raped and killed a bunch of kids, so I don't understand why you're making a big deal out of it".

[StevieWonders]

I apologise for the two consonants missing from the final sentence in my post above.

[Dodger]

No one thinks Ukraine is anything other than a corrupt shithole.

I'm glad someone finally came out and said that.

Trump called a meeting once to discuss Ukraine and spelled the name "U-krane" in a message to his secretary. Then at the meeting when one of his generals propped up a map of Europe Trump appeared shocked because he thought Ukraine was on the African continent. When finally shown the location on the map he responded..."why are we even concerned about that shithole" For once he said something that had some merit...LOL

I could care less about all this historical hair-pulling nonsense. The boys over there are HOT and that's all that matters. I wish all the gay soldiers over there (on both sides) would throw done their weapons...cross the border holding rainbow-colored flags...and start having an orgy right in front of the camera's.

[arsenal]

That's absolutely right Dodger. I don't care which gangster politician rules Ukraine or indeed any of the other Eurasian crapholes and you can include the equally gruesome 'stans' in that.

However I do care about not finding myself in WW3 and these things can escalate. I don't think taking the place would be a walk over for Russia either. Ukraine has an army of 160000. Plus if, as Moses says they're virtually Russian anyway they're going to be huge, aggressive, grumpy, tough as leather soldiers eager to fight just like the actual Russian army. And they will have accrss to the best equipment NATO can supply.

[StevieWonders]

That's absolutely right Dodger. I don't care which gangster politician rules Ukraine or indeed any of the other Eurasian crapholes and you can include the equally gruesome 'stans' in that.Speaking of gangster politicians, isn't China's 20th Party Congress coming along soon? I'd put the takeover of Hong Kong and the sabre-rattling over Taiwan in the same category as Putin's activities in Crimea and Ukraine. Then there's the ethnic cleansing of the Uighurs and the Tibetans

[arsenal]

Well as you seem to be 'on topic' and compus mentis albeit probably temporarily I'll respond accordingly. Whatever Moses claims, China will not get invved except with perhaps supplies. However if America send troops they are very likely to use that as a reason to try and take Taiwan. They will believe that the USA will not want to fight in two theatre's of war although American policy and military spending since WW2 has been precisely for that scenario.

[StevieWonders]

Well as you seem to be 'on topic' and compus mentis albeit probably temporarily I'll respond accordingly. Whatever Moses claims, China will not get invved except with perhaps supplies. However if America send troops they are very likely to use that as a reason to try and take Taiwan. They will believe that the USA will not want to fight in two theatre's of war although American policy and military spending since WW2 has been precisely for that scenario.How does that address in any sense at all the question I raised?

[Dodger]

.

Plus if, as Moses says they're virtually Russian anyway they're going to be huge, aggressive, grumpy, tough as leather soldiers eager to fight just like the actual Russian army.

Nothing to fret: Putin not only miscalculated on the strength and unity of NATO, but he also missed the boat thinking China would start fucking with Taiwan in the middle of this mess to weaken the U.S. position. China has its own hands filled right now battling covid and trying to salvage their economy in the process. The last thing they need is to create a major fracture in global economies and screwing up their exports in the process. For what? So Russia can own Ukraine? Who gives a fuck.

I wouldn't be surprised if contracts between Qatar and Europe weren't already in the process of getting signed to take care of the gas shortage when Germany's pipeline with Russia gets permanently corked. Putin may have overlooked Qatar being pulled on the chessboard at this juncture as well, which really throws a monkey wrench in the works.

These bozo world leaders we have; not only Putin the War Czar, but Rip Van Winkle Biden, Boring Bozo Johnson, and the rest of these power-hungry clowns, could fuck up a wet dream without even trying.

[dinagam]

These bozo world leaders we have; not only Putin the War Czar, but Rip Van Winkle Biden, Boring Bozo Johnson, and the rest of these power-hungry clowns, could fuck up a wet dream without even trying.

How far is the reach of their artillery canons?
Does anyone know if there is a case of premature ejaculation among them?

[DoubleDutch]

There are a lot of money boys at time of high season (May-October), but you should find them via applications like Hornet or Grindr or Blued, for me it looks like about 1/3 of Ukrainian gay boys migrating to Crimea at that time... Most of them does not speak English.


Typical guys. Most of them will be tops, just small amount will be twinks :




Grindr and other apps are used widely, but last summer in Odessa, Ukraine, I found Blusystem.ru more useful than any of these apps, it is Russian version of GayRomeo, it is region based, so you can filter specific city, say, Odessa, you can filter guys offering escort services, but if a guy is 23 years old, and their profile says they are open to meet men age 18 - 99, you can just ask make an offer, and there is good chance offer will be accepted, or negotiated, at least.

Russian is used on listings and profiles, and most of those guys do not use Grind, Hornet etc. Very useful site in Ukraine, and probably Russia.

Ukrainian guys tend to be exceptionally good looking, hyper masculine but friendly, naturally well built, lean, fit, and for some reason, most have amazingly firm buttocks, must be genes.

Oh, and Crimea is currently occupied by Russia, that should go without saying.

[arsenal]

What question?

[Moses]

I wouldn't be surprised if contracts between Qatar and Europe weren't already in the process of getting signed to take care of the gas shortage when Germany's pipeline with Russia gets permanently corked. Putin may have overlooked Qatar being pulled on the chessboard at this juncture as well, which really throws a monkey wrench in the works.


EU has shortage already 8 months. If it will be possible - contract already will be in European hands. Problem with Qatar is the same - LNG is much more expensive than gas in pipelines. So Europe sucks from pipelines - from Norway, Russia, Turkey (again Russia via "Turkey stream") and Algeria + Morocco, and only occasionally buys LNG when it is not possible to buy natural gas.

Also problem with LNG - usually prices for LNG are quite higher in Asia - S.Korea, Japan, China, India, than in EU. That why all LNG tankers are going to Asia instead of Europe. Nobody cares about shortage in EU unless EU-prices are the same as in Asia. Tankers from Qatar, US and other countries were very busy at last 8 months in gas delivery to Asia while their govt blamed Russia for shortage. Nothing personal, just business: we know about shortage and we will blame Russia, but our tankers will sell gas to customer who pays more.

[StevieWonders]

What question?Your limited intelligence is such a given, I keep forgetting the Janet & John version of any post of mine is what you need. The question is “Speaking of gangster politicians, isn't China's 20th Party Congress coming along soon?”

[arsenal]

You need me to tell you that?

[StevieWonders]

You need me to tell you that?I’m trying to figure out what purpose you could conceivably serve and that seems something that would not strain your grey cells. Call it noblesse oblige on my part; I think of you as a Baldrick figure. You’ll recall Blackadder’s riposte when Baldrick reminded him that “We’ve been in your family for hundreds of years”? - “So has syphilis”. That’s how you are to me. Now hurry along; I have far more interesting things to see, people to do.

It’s time to scoff at the numbers of fag hags polluting Silom Soi 4 at “Goeth Before A Fall” and that Other Place. I’m resolved to have a very early dinner at G’s. Perhaps you’d care to join me? But of course, I’m in Thailand and you won’t be for such a long time. Heart breaking.

[gerefan2]

But far more importantly what will happen to this Russian owned board, more or less exclusively written on by NATO citizens, if there is a punch up?

Will Moses keep his toddlers playground open?!

[dinagam]

Moses as a prophet and is above pettiness.

[Moses]

It’s time to scoff at the numbers of fag hags polluting Silom Soi 4 at “Goeth Before A Fall” and that Other Place. I’m resolved to have a very early dinner at G’s. Perhaps you’d care to join me? But of course, I’m in Thailand and you won’t be for such a long time. Heart breaking.

Well, as per Arsenal's posts he is living in China. I may assure you, what when you are living in China, you may miss Thailand because of weather, but never will miss it because of boys: when you have 1 500 000 000 population around, then you always have willing boys without any efforts from your side - you are White with Long Nose.

[StevieWonders]

But far more importantly what will happen to this Russian owned board, more or less exclusively written on by NATO citizens, if there is a punch up?

Will Moses keep his toddlers playground open?!I’ve always found entropy the fundamental problem of Forums such as this. Besides, NATO isn’t a political entity in the same way as a nation state so from that perspective there’s no such thing as a “NATO citizen”

[StevieWonders]

Well, as per Arsenal's posts he is living in China. I may assure you, what when you are living in China, you may miss Thailand because of weather, but never will miss it because of boys: when you have 1 500 000 000 population around, then you always have willing boys without any efforts from your side - you are White with Long Nose.I’ve booked my ticket - can’t wait

[StevieWonders]

To add an element of levity (rather than the farce of many of the recent posts), here’s the New Yorker’s satirical take on the situation - Putin says he deserves Ukraine as a consolation for losing the White House - https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/putin-says-he-deserves-ukraine-as-consolation-for-losing-white-house

[arsenal]

Back on topic and events were most interesting yesterday, all of which convinced me further Putin isn't going to invade. More tents have been readied on the Russian side but no more troops so perhaps it's a big scout camp. Putin maybe has run out of hardware to make his point. 2000 more US soldiers are sent to Germany and Poland. No biggie there.

Most interesting was the broadside aimed at "British Diplomacy" by the deputy Russian ambassador to the UN, not the top guy so leaving Russian manoeuvre room. "Worthless" he called it and a failure to read Putin's motives. The message was clear. We need a highly skilled diplomat, well versed in the nuance of open ended slightly vague language to get out of this. Step forward one freshly minted knight...Sir Tony Blair.

[Dodger]

Back on topic and events were most interesting yesterday, all of which convinced me further Putin isn't going to invade.

I think everyone's getting convinced at this point...even Putin.

What next...Mongolia?

I wonder what the eastern border of Ukraine will look like 3 years from now. I envision a continuous stream of barbed wire with heavily armed guards on both sides - with guard towers and trained Doberman pinchers sniffing the asses of anyone who dares to get within a hundred yards. Maybe they should just designate this a demilitarized zone similar to the 38th parallel in Korea where both sides could spend the next 50 years spending $billions$ guarding it.

It just seems like there should be a more modern solution to this. Where's Fred Flintstone when you need him.

[StevieWonders]

Back on topic and events were most interesting yesterday, all of which convinced me further Putin isn't going to invade.

We need a highly skilled diplomat, well versed in the nuance of open ended slightly vague language to get out of this. Step forward one freshly minted knight...Sir Tony Blair.The relief of knowing that you have after all this time reached the same conclusion I had put forward as early as post #18 in this thread is almost unbearable. However suggesting that an (Iraq) war criminal responsible for the wholly unjustified invasion of another country as a “highly skilled diplomat” who has something to contribute is most amusing in these circumstances. Should he get down on his knees and pray with Joe Biden as he did with Dubya do you think?

[Dodger]

EU has shortage already 8 months. If it will be possible - contract already will be in European hands. Problem with Qatar is the same - LNG is much more expensive than gas in pipelines. So Europe sucks from pipelines - from Norway, Russia, Turkey (again Russia via "Turkey stream") and Algeria + Morocco, and only occasionally buys LNG when it is not possible to buy natural gas.

Also problem with LNG - usually prices for LNG are quite higher in Asia - S.Korea, Japan, China, India, than in EU. That why all LNG tankers are going to Asia instead of Europe. Nobody cares about shortage in EU unless EU-prices are the same as in Asia. Tankers from Qatar, US and other countries were very busy at last 8 months in gas delivery to Asia while their govt blamed Russia for shortage. Nothing personal, just business: we know about shortage and we will blame Russia, but our tankers will sell gas to customer who pays more.

Admittedly, I'm completely in the dark regarding the gas/LNG prices and supply chains you're describing. All I know is what I hear on the news...and before you say it, I already know this information may or my not be correct with all the politics at stake here.

I just hope there's a solution to this mess that doesn't involve people killing each other. .And I know this may be too much to ask for in the world we live in.

[dinagam]

The quickest solution to this problem is by the injection of Formaldehyde into the veins of Biden.

[arsenal]

"The relief of knowing that you have after all this time reached the same conclusion I had put forward as early as post #18 in this thread is almost unbearable."

Post no.1 stevie.

[StevieWonders]

"The relief of knowing that you have after all this time reached the same conclusion I had put forward as early as post #18 in this thread is almost unbearable."

Post no.1 stevie.Thanks, Baldrick

[arsenal]

"I apologise for the two consonants missing from the final sentence in my post above."

[goji]

Well, if the sole objective were to annex more of Ukraine, I would have thought the best approach would be a swift troop build up and invasion. That gives other countries less time to ship weapons to Ukraine.
The end result would be the same, but giving Ukraine time to prepare would mean more Russian casualties.

So seeing how far NATO will go with appeasment must be a big part of this.

[Dodger]

So seeing how far NATO will go with appeasment must be a big part of this.

No doubt about it.

This was a NATO Cohesion Test.

Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the world and they're a long way from being asked to join NATO for that reason. It will probably take decades (not years) for Ukraine to transform itself into a democratic law abiding state - and in the mean time, they will just have to live with Russia breathing down their necks. Putin knows this full-well. NATO knows he knows it. And he knows that NATO knows that he knows it.

[cdnmatt]

No doubt about it.

This was a NATO Cohesion Test.

Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the world and they're a long way from being asked to join NATO for that reason. It will probably take decades (not years) for Ukraine to transform itself into a democratic law abiding state - and in the mean time, they will just have to live with Russia breathing down their necks. Putin knows this full-well. NATO knows he knows it. And he knows that NATO knows that he knows it.

Right, because places like Romania and Hungary are beacons of democracy and goto great lengths to weed out corruption. Neither, the EU or NATO had any problem letting them in.

[cdnmatt]

Anyway, this is all really starting to look like Putin bluffed, NATO called him on his bluff, and now Putin is embarrassed to look like a fool.

Kinda like the Cuban missile crisis when the Soviet naval ships were up against the US blockade. Soviets talked a big game, but at the end of the day were just lieing about how powerful they actually were and were bluffing.

[Moses]

Anyway, this is all really starting to look like Putin bluffed, NATO called him on his bluff, and now Putin is embarrassed to look like a fool.

Kinda like the Cuban missile crisis when the Soviet naval ships were up against the US blockade. Soviets talked a big game, but at the end of the day were just lieing about how powerful they actually were and were bluffing.

Matt, you are so naïve. Look back in time: Putin is over 25 years in politic. He always had what he want. No once fail.

[alvnv]

Matt, you are so naïve. Look back in time: Putin is over 25 years in politic. He always had what he want. No once fail.

Wasn’t there though? I vaguely recall something about OPEC+, Saudi prince and obvious miscalculation a few years back… we can go further back to the closure of the Moscow stock exchange, or more recent “sanctions are good for Russia” rhetoric how Russian cheeses are now much superior to the European originals: Enjoy Parmigiano Voronezhiano and Brie de Ufa. I couldn’t care less about any politicians - I’m just surprised at the extent of support that he is enjoying among the groups he had marginalized. Stockholm syndrome, anyone? Really, KHU IZ PUTIN?

[cdnmatt]

Matt, you are so naïve. Look back in time: Putin is over 25 years in politic. He always had what he want. No once fail.


Yes, just like how Trump is playing 5D chess.

[Moses]

Wasn’t there though? I vaguely recall something about OPEC+, Saudi prince and obvious miscalculation a few years back… we can go further back to the closure of the Moscow stock exchange, or more recent “sanctions are good for Russia” rhetoric how Russian cheeses are now much superior to the European originals: Enjoy Parmigiano Voronezhiano and Brie de Ufa. I couldn’t care less about any politicians - I’m just surprised at the extent of support that he is enjoying among the groups he had marginalized. Stockholm syndrome, anyone? Really, KHU IZ PUTIN?

Looks like you can read Russian, visit any retail food shop and check amount of cheese sorts from all continents. For example perekrestok.ru From Swiss in Europe to Argentina in Latin America. Closure of stock exchange is also only in your wet dreams, friend: moex.com

and last one: it's not important "who is Putin", most important: he still has majority of Russian votes... if I remember correct, exactly that world call "democracy"

[Nirish guy]

visit anyone retail food shop and check amount of cheese sorts from all continents. For example perekrestok.ru From Swiss in Europe to Argentina in Latin America.

12262

[arsenal]

As soon as you attack Ukraine I'm going to send a peace keeping force to 'protect' Taiwan.
That's a good idea. I'll get some of our tugs to tow our aircraft carrier there as a gesture of friendship.

[Dodger]

Matching suits and ties...how spiffy...but Xi needs to ease up on the pork chops and do a few sit ups. Maybe the Olympics will inspire him.

[goji]

Someone should feed them both some of that polonium tea. Make the world a better place.

[Moses]

Someone should feed them both some of that polonium tea. Make the world a better place.

At past few year Israel killed 6 foreign scientists outside of Israel, US just killed foreign military general by drone outside of US, but you still remind us about polonium what presumable Russia used for to kill own citizen 15 years ago?

[Brad the Impala]

Matt, you are so naïve. Look back in time: Putin is over 25 years in politic. He always had what he want. No once fail.

Wow, what a superhero! I expect you believe you believe he wrestles bears to relax!

With such a simplistic and naive comment you undermine all the Putin propaganda you have espoused on your forum. Is Putin funding the forum!

[Moses]

Wow, what a superhero! I expect you believe you believe he wrestles bears to relax!

With such a simplistic and naive comment you undermine all the Putin propaganda you have espoused on your forum. Is Putin funding the forum!

I'm glad to see you don't have facts to argue against...

[StevieWonders]

I'm glad to see you don't have facts to argue against...Surely you realise in the age of Facebook, facts simply don’t matter - perception IS reality and propaganda is our daily fare?

[cdnmatt]

I'm glad to see you don't have facts to argue against...

Because it would be completely impossible to debate with you about such a position.

For example, if Putin tucks tail and moves all soldiers back to their bases away from Ukraine without invading, and we say "see he doesn't always get what he wants" you will reply with, "this was his plan all along, you guys are just too stupid to understand his intellect".

Same as all these idiots who keep saying Trump is playing some 5D game of chess, when in reality he can't even manage to play a game of checkers without accidentally swallowing a bunch of the pieces.

[Dodger]

Look back in time: Putin is over 25 years in politic. He always had what he want. No once fail.

Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on what your view is, there has never once been a powerful leader in history that's always got what he wanted. If he did, he'd be ruling the world.

Putin's lifelong ambition to rebuild the Soviet Empire under his rule is no mystery to anyone. I'm not saying his ambitions are good or bad, I'm just saying this is a reality. If he always got what he wanted as you insinuated, this would already have been accomplished. So, in reality, he's never got what he really wants.

Can you imagine if Xi ever got everything he really wanted? He'd be doing a Genghis Khan act on all our asses.

[alvnv]

Looks like you can read Russian, visit any retail food shop and check amount of cheese sorts from all continents. For example perekrestok.ru From Swiss in Europe to Argentina in Latin America. Closure of stock exchange is also only in your wet dreams, friend: moex.com

and last one: it's not important "who is Putin", most important: he still has majority of Russian votes... if I remember correct, exactly that world call "democracy"

So did Hitler… so did Trump… It’s not how many votes they got, but rather how they brainwashed people.

Also, I do not dream of ill to anyone, including Putin. I just believe that Russian people deserve better. In the first 8 years Putin enjoyed a tremendous influx of wealth due to extremely high oil prices. He could have used it to advance education, science, healthcare and make Russia so prosperous that not only former Soviet republics, but former Eastern Block countries would try to get back in alliance with Russia. Instead, he put all the resources to create an autocratic state by strengthening police and army and then started to force its neighbors into submission. As the result, talent continued to flee Russia. Then, he instead recruited corrupt politicians from the West.

As for the MOEX, I was talking about the RTS crash of 2008 following which it had to be absorbed by MICEX by 2011. So, two became one.

Look, I have someone who thinks like you in my own family. My brother used to live in Russia and seems to get his “facts” from the same sources as you. It does not change how I feel about him - our discussions about politics seem more like teasing than arguing. It’s a bit easier, as he no longer lives in Russia. Had he still been there, I would be worried and concerned. I love him dearly and would not want him to raise his family under constant barrage of propaganda.

[Surfcrest]

Is the tension at the Ukrainian border really about the expansion of Russia…or the expansion of NATO?

Surfcrest

[cdnmatt]

Is the tension at the Ukrainian border really about the expansion of Russia…or the expansion of NATO?

Surfcrest


Both, really. This all started back in 1991 when Ukraine declared independance at which time they began drifting to the West. The momentum towards the West then increased after the 2014 election, at which point Putin decided to annex Crimea and start a proxy war in Eastern Ukraine using Russian seperatists.

Ukraine natually got fairly nervous at this so asked, "yo NATO, mind if we join you guys so we can tell the Russians to fuck off?", to which Putin said, "uh uh, you ain't becoming friends with my enemy" and proceeded to send over 140,000 soldiers to Ukraine's border. And now we are where we are.

Remember, majority of Ukrainians remember full well what happened to their countrymen especially under Stalin's rule due to his agriculture policies, hence have no desire whatsoever to rejoin mother Russia.

Obviously, NATO wouldn't mind having Ukraine as a member. At the same time, if Putin had just left Ukraine alone, they probably wouldn't be so hell bent on joining NATO. But no, after the Russian stooge got the boot in the 2014 election, Putin just had to go meddle in Ukraine with military force, so...

[Moses]

Both, really. This all started back in 1991 when Ukraine declared independance at which time they began drifting to the West. The momentum towards the West then increased after the 2014 election, at which point Putin decided to annex Crimea and start a proxy war in Eastern Ukraine using Russian seperatists.


Matt. You for sure should make fact-check before to publish that bullshit here.

Russia got Crimea after disorders in Ukraine when nationalists shoot down parliament and pushed legally elected president out of country and called him not legitimate (Feb 22).

It was March 2014.

At March 11 parliament of Crimea declared independence from Ukraine, at March 14 parliament announced referendum, at March 16 was referendum and after it parliament send letter to Russia for to join Russian Federation as Autonomous republic. And at March 18 was signed agreement btw Crimea and Russia.

The referendum asked local populations whether they wanted to join Russia as a federal subject, or if they wanted to restore the 1992 Crimean constitution and Crimea's status as a part of Ukraine. The official result from the Autonomous Republic of Crimea was a 97 percent vote for integration of the region into the Russian Federation with an 83 percent voter turnout, and within the local government of Sevastopol there was also a 97 percent vote for integration of the region into the Russian Federation with an 89 percent voter turnout.

The United Nations Development Program conducted a series of polls in Crimea between 2009 and 2011 about the question of leaving Ukraine and joining Russia with a sample size of 1,200:

Quarter Yes No Undecided
2009 Q3 70% 14% 16%
2009 Q4 67% 15% 18%
2010 Q1 66% 14% 20%
2010 Q2 65% 12% 23%
2010 Q3 67% 11% 22%
2010 Q4 66% 9% 25%
2011 Q4 65.6% 14.2% 20.2%

more information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum

Elections in Ukraine was at the end of May 2014 when all these nazi took power and forbade some parties for to be sure what no one serious opposing competitor may win.

[cdnmatt]

Same shit, Moses -- it all happened at the same time. The Ukrainians decided to kick the Russian stooge out of Kiev, which prompted Putin to annex Crimea and start a proxy war in Eastern Ukraine. This understandably scared Ukraine, hence they began agressively pursuing membership into NATO.

For the most part, Ukraine seemed quite content being a buffer state between Russia and the West. That is until Putin decided to move into Ukraine with military force. Now understandably, Ukraine has changed its tune and badly wants into NATO, so they can live in peace without the constant threat of Russian aggression.

NATO will never ban Ukraine from becoming a member, as that defeats the entire reason NATO was initially formed. If Putin wants to risk plunging Russia into a 20 year economic depression over this, that's on him.

[Moses]

That is until Putin decided to move into Ukraine with military force.

There is no Russian military forces in Ukraine till now. Even Boris Johnson agreed with that few days ago when he spoke about sanctions: "UK will implement sanction as soon as first Russian soldier will step to Ukrainian territory"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/01/ukraine-crisis-boris-johnson-kyiv-putin-orban

[cdnmatt]

Russia annexed Crimeia, and the separatists in Eastern Ukraine are being supported by the Russian military. That's more than enough for any country to worry about its territorial sovereignty.

[Moses]

==== Russia annexed Crimeia === yes, took back

====and the separtists in Eastern Ukraine are being supported by the Russian military==== By Russia, correct. US makes support to tens of regimes, France makes support to few regimes in Africa including Mali where it competes with Russia. Support isn't crime. Every country supports some parties, movements... smart people calls that diplomacy... They are minority, Russia and Red Cross supports them.

Why not? US sometimes even supports both sides of military conflict for to be sure what winner will give benefits to US... it calls geopolitics so?

Why you don't care what UK, US and some other countries already 7 years supports nazi and nationalists at west of Ukraine who took power as results of disorders and changed Constitution? You didn't knew? At 2014 they declined current Constitution and announced what there will be old one (from 2004), only then they had chance to make "impeachment" to president Yanukovitch not so questionable...

[cdnmatt]

> Russia annexed Crimeia

yes, took back

No, then Russia shouldn't have signed Crimea over to Ukraine in 1954. By your logic, Russia should be allowed to invade and annex Alaska without penalty, because they used to own it at one point in history.

Or let's even give your point of view the benefit of the doubt, and say Crimea belongs to Russia moreso than Ukraine as there were loads of Russian citizens living ther, et al. If that's the case, then why didn't Russia push Crimeia to have a referendum, declare independance, secede from Ukraine and lobby the Russian government to join as a Russian state? You know, the normal and peaceful way to go about this.

But no, it's easier to just roll in with tanks and say, "yep, this land is ours now, because we said so". Then afterwards, get all pissed off and confused because Ukraine wants to join NATO.

[Moses]

No, then Russia shouldn't have signed Crimea over to Ukraine in 1954.

Russia didn't it in 1954. It was signed by General secretary of Communist party of USSR Khruschev. Nobody asked Russia.

[Moses]

Matt, did you saw materials what I gave to you URL? UN made polls in Crimea many years where they want to be: since 2009. Answer even under pro-kremlin govt in Ukraine was "Russia". After nationalist won, Crimea just made step in long time wished direction.

[arsenal]

What do you want Ukraine for anyway? It would be like Wal Mart attacking a local corner shop just cos the owner used to work for them.

The Death of Stalin. A reminder it's one of the best comedies ever.

One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. Perhaps the best book I've ever read. Have food and warmth handy because It will make you feel cold and hungry..A 3D experience.

It's approaching the time when Putin has to decide to either show his hand or fold.

[StevieWonders]

What do you want Ukraine for anyway? It would be like Wal Mart attacking a local corner shop just cos the owner used to work for them.

The Death of Stalin. A reminder it's one of the best comedies ever.

One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. Perhaps the best book I've ever read. Have food and warmth handy because It will make you feel cold and hungry..A 3D experience.

It's approaching the time when Putin has to decide to either show his hand or fold.Remember your old algebra lessons, arsenal. "Let X equal the unknown number"

[Dodger]

It's approaching the time when Putin has to decide to either show his hand or fold.

Ukraine has a whopping 10 month rainy season (and I though Thailand was bad), with the average rainless period beginning December 28 and ending February 17. That being the case, Putin will probably start slowly and incrementally moving his troops away from Ukraine's border in later February. I wouldn't expect a fast and immediate withdrawal because that would cause him to lose even more face than he's already lost.

Military guys hate performing assaults in the rain, e.g., limited visibility for sniper shots, vehicles get bogged down in mud, roads wash away without warning, drains troop morale levels, and it just slows them down more in general...where hard dry ground is much the preference.

I think Putin scrambling for a photo op with Xi the other day pretty much sums it up. It's all about "perception". His bluff gets called by NATO, and for that fact, the rest of the free-world,...Germany stands firm on retracting the pipeline contract...China remains neutral, and the straw that broke the camels back was when the Central Banks in London whispered a hint that Russian Oligarch money ($$Billions) stashed in London banks could get sanctioned if Putin were to attempt to attack a friendly nation. He has no viable options. His hand is already folded.

What will be interesting to see is what happens to Ukraine's eastern border over the next 3 years. It's no longer the border between two countries. It's the border between Putin's delusional empire and the rest of the free-Europe.

My Russian friends in Chicago often talked about their frustrations with the lack of progress regarding the standard of living for Russian people under Putin's rule. I hope for the sake of the Russian people that the next leader after Putin focusses more on "the people" - and less on building more and more weapons to one day rule the world. It's about time Russia joined the rest of the modern world - and left these Flash Gordan search & destroy tactics to the authors of comic books.

For the record, I have close Russian friends that I grew up playing hockey with who are wonderful people, as are their families. So Moses please don't take anything I'm saying personally. Believe me, I've cast more stones at U.S. politics than you probably have, so don't think I'm brainwashed and/or closed minded, because I'm not. I'm fed up with all of it...don't trust anything that comes out of a politicians mouth, and find myself perfectly content spending my life separated from this destructive nonsense - preferring to spend my days drifting the shores of a third-world Asian country searching for clams and sea shells - and getting laid at night.

[a447]

Some posts unrelated to this thread have been moved here :

https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?22645-Willkommen-in-Bayern!

[Brad the Impala]

There is no Russian military forces in Ukraine till now. Even Boris Johnson agreed with that few days ago when he spoke about sanctions: "UK will implement sanction as soon as first Russian soldier will step to Ukrainian territory"



If you believe anything that Boris Johnson says you might as well believe everything that Putin says.

[Moses]

If you believe anything that Boris Johnson says you might as well believe everything that Putin says.

I "believe" in facts. Since 2014 - all 7 years - Ukraine demands to declare Russia aggressor at each UN General Assembly. No once UN voted for that because Ukraine can't show any proof of that. Occupation of Crimea is that UN declared. UN Red Cross still calls what is going on the East of Ukraine "military noninternational conflict" - i.e. civil war. No proof exists what Russian military parts participate in it. No proof for 7+ years, almost 8.

Looks like Russia has secret weapon: as soon as phone camera targeted any Russian military, phone's battery becomes discharged less than in 1 sec. and nobody is able to film or to take a picture of Russians on Ukrainian ground.

Also looks like Russia has special masking umbrellas - for 7+ years no one satellite show images of Russian military parts on Ukrainian territory. Near borders - a lot of pictures, on territory - no one.

OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine monitoring conflict since March 2014. There is no one report about Russian soldiers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSCE_Special_Monitoring_Mission_to_Ukraine

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/OSCE_SMM_monitoring_the_movement_of_heavy_weaponry _in_eastern_Ukraine_%2816111693793%29.jpg/1024px-OSCE_SMM_monitoring_the_movement_of_heavy_weaponry _in_eastern_Ukraine_%2816111693793%29.jpg

[Andy]

I'm not that sophisticated in politics that other members of the board I presume but before the Crimea crisis rate of russian ruble to thai baht was 0,9. Now it is 2,3. My main question why I should pay double of the same pleasures and who is responsible for that?

[Moses]

"Looking for evidence? Trust us, Biden administration says"

Feb 5, https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-russia-ukraine-health-europe-national-security-5c4182d83dd8b7585ac49fdbb5f91c45


WASHINGTON (AP) — When President Biden’s administration was asked for evidence to back up dramatic claims about national security developments this past week, it demurred with a simple rejoinder: You’ll have to trust us on that.

No, they would not reveal what led them to say they knew that Russia was plotting a false flag operation as a pretext to invade Ukraine. No, they would not explain their confidence that civilian casualties were caused by a suicide bombing rather than U.S. special forces during a raid in Syria.

The administration’s response took a particularly caustic turn as spokespeople suggested that reporters were buying into foreign propaganda by even asking such questions.

The lack of transparency strained already depleted reserves of credibility in Washington, a critical resource diminished over the decades by instances of lies, falsehoods and mistakes on everything from extramarital affairs to the lack of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.


According to a CNN/SSRS poll conducted in December, only 34% of Americans said Biden “is a leader you can trust.” Another 66% said they “have some doubts and reservations.”

[Surfcrest]

NATO will never ban Ukraine from becoming a member, as that defeats the entire reason NATO was initially formed. If Putin wants to risk plunging Russia into a 20 year economic depression over this, that's on him.

NATO was formed as a military alliance against the Soviet Union and continues to exist against Russia.

You may be too young to remember the Cuban Missile crisis, but that was just as much about Cuba’s proximity to the United States, as it was about missiles.

The Ukraine, Latvia or Lithuania don’t need to be part of NATO, based on why NATO was formed…nor does the world need a war over it.

Surfcrest

https://www.nato.int/wearenato/why-was-nato-founded.html

[Brad the Impala]

Looks like Russia has secret weapon: as soon as phone camera targeted any Russian military, phone's battery becomes discharged less than in 1 sec. and nobody is able to film or to take a picture of Russians on Ukrainian ground.

Also looks like Russia has special masking umbrellas - for 7+ years no one satellite show images of Russian military parts on Ukrainian territory. Near borders - a lot of pictures, on territory - no one.



Remember the shooting down of MH17, civilian flight with loss of 298 passengers and crew. The special masking umbrellas and phone battery dischargers don't seem to have been working to conceal the Russian BUK surface to air missile launcher that shot the plane down from Ukranian territory.


The responsibility for investigation was delegated to the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) and the Dutch-led joint investigation team (JIT), who concluded that the airliner was downed by a Buk surface-to-air missile launched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory in Ukraine.[6][7] According to the JIT, the Buk that was used originated from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade of the Russian Federation[8][9] and had been transported from Russia on the day of the crash, fired from a field in a rebel-controlled area and returned to Russia afterwards.


On 28 September 2016, the JIT gave a press conference in which it concluded that the aircraft was shot down with a 9M38 Buk missile fired from a rebel-controlled field near Pervomaisky (Первомайський), a town 6 km (3.7 mi) south of Snizhne.[126] It also found the Buk missile system used had been transported from Russia into Ukraine on the day of the crash, and then back into Russia after the crash, with one missile less than it arrived with.[1][2] The JIT said they had identified 100 people, witnesses as well as suspects, who were involved in the movement of the Buk launcher, though they had not yet identified a clear chain of command to assess culpability, which was a matter for ongoing investigation. The Dutch chief prosecutor said "the evidence must stand before a court" which would render final judgement.[1] During the investigation, the JIT recorded and assessed five billion internet pages, interviewed 200 witnesses, collected half a million photos and videos, and analysed 150,000 intercepted phone calls.[126][228] According to JIT head prosecutor Fred Westerbeke the criminal investigation is based on "immense body of evidence," including testimonies of live witnesses who saw the Buk launcher, primary radar data, original photos and videos.[229]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17

[Moses]

Remember the shooting down of MH17, civilian flight with loss of 298 passengers and crew. The special masking umbrellas and phone battery dischargers don't seem to have been working to conceal the Russian BUK surface to air missile launcher that shot the plane down from Ukranian territory.


Still no court decision.
By the way "Russian BUK" and "BUK under Russian control" - different things. At time of clash with Georgia in 2008 "Russian BUK" what Ukraine gave to Georgia shooted down 3 Russian fighters.

[latintopxxx]

i sincerely hope there is no war, as far as I'm concerned they (Russians, belorussians, Ukrainians) are all the same, cousins practically, line them up and you cant tell the difference; and jusdging by the talent on Belami movies they are all hung drop dead gorgeous with high cheeks, piercing blue/greem eyes and muscle bubble butts....so what a waste if any had to die over I dont even know what...enough to make me religious and start praying that Jesus will intervene...

[Nirish guy]

......enough to make me religious and start praying that Jesus will intervene...

And send lots of his lovely angels to lighten the situation and bring peace, love and hot sex to all those lovely soldiers......

12303

[Dodger]

.

...judging by the talent on Belami movies they are all hung drop dead gorgeous with high cheeks, piercing blue/greem eyes and muscle bubble butts.....

I just love a man in uniform.

[a447]

I just love a man in uniform.

I prefer them out of uniform!

[Dodger]

I prefer them out of uniform!

Yes, especially when they're practicing their drills.

[latintopxxx]

...least u could do is use belami models....and not skinny famished looking ones...

[Dodger]

...least u could do is use belami models....and not skinny famished looking ones...

Bel Ami Booty:

[latintopxxx]

...a million thanks

[christianpfc]

12308

[latintopxxx]

lol...that is kinda cheeky...but funny too...Russians can be a little initimidating...like when they speak english...always sounds like a threat no matter what they say...

[Dodger]

Russia and Belarus just started 10 days of joint military drills primarily to scare the shit out of everyone, but also for the chance to give some of their gay soldiers some field experience.

[cdnmatt]

Putin's not going to invade. If he was going to, he would have already.

He bluffed, NATO called him it, and now he's stuck trying to figure out how to get out of this without looking like a fool, so 10 days of military exercises with Belarus sounds good for now, I guess.

[Moses]

Half of Russia now laugh on Liz Truss another half wondered where UK found so uneducated minister. She came for talks about Ukraine but has no idea about geography of region. She came totally unprepared and just to collect some "bonuses" for Johnson.

Truss today demanded Russia to withdraw military parts from Voronezh and Rostov. Lavrov told her what Russia may keep own army where it wants within own borders and asked her: "Do your country recognize Russian sovereignty on Rostov and Voronezh?" And Truss's answer was: "UK will never recognize Russian sovereignty on these two regions".

British ambassador after that declaration got red face and ran to save situation, because Voronezh and Rostov regions are part of Russia at least for past 6 centuries.

She is so stupid and low educated. Few weeks ago in the speech in Lowy Institute she with serious and angry face said "Ukraine suffered from invasions of Mongols and Tatars". It wasn't two invasions, it was one Mongol-Tatarian. Mongol-Tatarian invasion was 4 centuries before Ukraine appears on any map,

[JayToff]

Half of Russia now laugh on Liz Truss...

Considering that one hundred per cent of the U.K. laughs at her one hundred per cent of the time, she would seem to be rather more popular in Russia. Accordingly, you can have her if you want. In fact, we'd be be happy to hand her over.

[goji]

lol...that is kinda cheeky...but funny too...Russians can be a little initimidating...like when they speak english...always sounds like a threat no matter what they say...

Back in the days when I had to work for a living, I encountered some very polite and well educated Russians. Who also spoke near perfect English.

[StevieWonders]

Considering that one hundred per cent of the U.K. laughs at her one hundred per cent of the time, she would seem to be rather more popular in Russia. Accordingly, you can have her if you want. In fact, we'd be be happy to hand her over.
We English do have a penchant for amusing names - Liz Truss, Cressida Dick

[Nirish guy]

She is so stupid and low educated. Few weeks ago in the speech she said.........

You're assuming there Moses that she has ANY knowledge on the topics on which she speaks !

Like most Government Ministers in the UK she is undoubtedly handed her speech maybe 30 minutes before she's wheeled out to whatever hall she's been told to appear in, to read whatever script she's been told to read from by the UK Foreign Office. As you already commented her knowledge on just about any subject is i'm guessing NIL.

If she wasn't briefed before she went into a room and given her crib notes to hold close to her chest I doubt she'd be able to have ANY meaningful conversation with anyone about ANY topic in hand ( as you witnessed at those talks it seems !)

Most of our Govt ministers here are a total joke and an embarrassment / disgrace - and dont even start me on Nadine Dorries, our alleged Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Minister !! My god what a TWAT !! I wonder who SHE had to suck off to get that job, as she most certainly wasn't promoted because she had any talent !

[latintopxxx]

....dodger...i want more...thats akin to art...sexual...like michael angelo's small dicked david...but still art...

[Dodger]

....dodger...i want more...thats akin to art...sexual...like michael angelo's small dicked david...but still art...

Waiting for the drill to begin:

[latintopxxx]

...r we now into Jap porn...

[Dodger]

For the first time in Belarusian Army history, the first all gay infantry platoon was assembled to begin practice drills along the Ukraine border. When the platoon leader barked out the command to "take your positions" - members of the illustrious Rainbow Platoon instinctively dropped their trousers to prepare for their drilling:

[StevieWonders]

Completely ignorant posters on this topic such as Amazing Dodgems and Matt would benefit by reading a recent article in The Atlantic about how the preconceptions of Western diplomacy are actually misconceptions. However as they believe all wisdom resides within their somewhat slight intellect they won’t bother reading it

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/lavrov-russia-diplomacy-ukraine/622075/

[cdnmatt]

And that article sounds like it was written by some ignorant right wing nut job who's world view is so narrow they think you just need to lob a few nukes around, turn a few cities into parking lots, and voila, international crisis solved.


Instead of offering empty language about rules and values, she could have started the press conference like this:

Good Evening, ladies and gentlemen of the press. I am delighted to join you after meeting my Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov. This time, we have not bothered to discuss treaties he won’t respect and promises he won’t keep. We have told him, instead, that an invasion of Ukraine will carry very, very high costs—higher than he has ever imagined. We are now planning to cut off Russian gas exports completely—Europe will find its energy supplies somewhere else. We are now preparing to assist the Ukrainian resistance, for a decade if need be. We are quadrupling our support for the Russian opposition, and for Russian media too. We want to make sure that Russians will start hearing the truth about this invasion, and as loudly as possible. And if you want to do regime change in Ukraine, we’ll get to work on regime change in Russia.

That's just being an arrogant asshole. Everyone knows the Western world has a big joint, no need to brag about it during press conferences that are aired internationally.

You don't gain international allies and support by being an arrogant loud mouth in front of the world.

[StevieWonders]

And that article sounds like it was written by some ignorant right wing nut job who's world view is so narrow they think you just need to lob a few nukes around, turn a few cities into parking lots, and voila, international crisis solved.I don't believe our resident RWNJ is currently writing for a left-wing American journal, but who knows

[Moses]

Completely ignorant posters on this topic such as Amazing Dodgems and Matt would benefit by reading a recent article in The Atlantic about how the preconceptions of Western diplomacy are actually misconceptions. However as they believe all wisdom resides within their somewhat slight intellect they won’t bother reading it

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/lavrov-russia-diplomacy-ukraine/622075/

Brilliant example of "Western" logic:


France should ban political parties that accept Russian money
and

We are quadrupling our support for the Russian opposition, and for Russian media too.

in the same article.

When complain about Crimea remember Cyprus, Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Iraq, Libya, Syria.
When complain about Russian influence to elections remember

we’ll get to work on regime change in Russia

Russia now has enough power to pay by the same coins. And if somebody will be stupid enough and will continue pressure, Russia may make union with China and "quadruple" own "answer".

[StevieWonders]

Brilliant example of "Western" logic:


and


in the same article.

When complain about Crimea remember Cyprus, Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Iraq.
When complain about Russian influence to elections remember


Russia now has enough power to pay by the same coins. And if somebody will be stupid enough and will continue pressure, Russia may make union with China and "quadruple" own "answer".
How does Lavrov afford his London properties out of his Russian salary?

[Moses]

How does Lavrov afford his London properties out of his Russian salary?

What do you know about his salary?

Every state person here must publish tax declaration. Lavrov's income is about US$ 200 000 per year after taxation, his spouse also must to publish her income: it is about US$ 40 000 after taxation. His daughter's income is not published, but Ekaterina Lavrova is adult successful businesswoman who is living in London with her husband and kids. That propaganda calls "Lavrov's property in London" by fact isn't "Lavrov's": all Lavrov's properties are declared and published. Ekaterina with husband own this property.

https://i.unitsfashion.com/images/004/image-10604.jpg

Her husband Alexander Vinokurov is co-owner of one of biggest retail networks in Russia and also major shareholder of few other big companies here. I don't think he need Lavrov's money for to buy property in London.

https://image.newsru.com/v2/03/2017/02/2/27b0cc8fe35efc45eba3f6eaeda5e163.jpg

[StevieWonders]

What do you know about his salary?

Every state person here must publish tax declaration. Lavrov's income is about US$ 200 000 per year after taxation, his spouse also must to publish her income: it is about US$ 40 000 after taxation. His daughter's income is not published, but Ekaterina Lavrova is adult successful businesswoman who is living in London with her husband and kids. That propaganda calls "Lavrov's property in London" by fact isn't "Lavrov's": all Lavrov's properties are declared and published. Ekaterina with husband own this property.

https://i.unitsfashion.com/images/004/image-10604.jpg

Her husband Alexander Vinokurov is co-owner of one of biggest retail networks in Russia and also major shareholder of few other big companies here. I don't think he need Lavrov's money for to buy property in London.

https://image.newsru.com/v2/03/2017/02/2/27b0cc8fe35efc45eba3f6eaeda5e163.jpg

That’s a relief; I’ll sleep easier tonight

[Moses]

That’s a relief; I’ll sleep easier tonight

By the way: when you are talking about "Russian salary" you should take in account taxation in Russia and prices.

Small business pays here 3% of income until taxes are below US$15000 and then 4% (or 5% and 6%, depends on business type). Hired personal pays 13% of income. Education is free, medicine is free. Property is cheap, land is expensive only around of big cities in European part of Russia, anyone Russian is able to get land for free in Russian East (first five years it will be free rent, if land will be properly used then he will be owner after 5 years, state provides electric line for free and pays for drilling water supply).

I have no car. I can afford it, but have no reason to have - taxi here is unbelievable cheap: ride from one end of Moscow to another end takes about 30 minutes and cost only US$ 7-8 (up to $15-18 and 60 minutes at prime time). Property taxation 0.1% of price per year. To rent apts from city costs $80 (1 bedroom) - $100 (2 bedrooms) monthly including utilities. Unlimited 500 Mbit internet + 200 TV channels $12 monthly via optic fiber to each home (in cities), mobile phone contracts with unlimited 4G internet usage and calls $15.

[goji]

The last taxi I was using in Russia had a baseball bat in the front drivers side door pocket.

I will concede that Russian tax rates are appealing.

[Moses]

The last taxi I was using in Russia had a baseball bat in the front drivers side door pocket.


Let me guess: ride was about 10 years ago or before.

Right now we have here Uber, Yandex, DiDi, Bla-Bla car (pickup service when you can join car owner in travel as a companion and will cover 1/2 of fuel, for example $25 to Sankt-Petersburg from Moscow). And a lot of car sharing companies (take car from the street, drop car on the street). There is no more "airport taxi mafia" (what is bat to fight against), even private black market almost does not exists.

[StevieWonders]

The last taxi I was using in Russia had a baseball bat in the front drivers side door pocket.He must have recognised you
I will concede that Russian tax rates are appealing .In a kleptocracy?

[cdnmatt]

Russia now has enough power to pay by the same coins.

No, they don't. Russia has a GDP of ~$1.48 trillion USD with a population of 145 million people. In contrast, Canada which is a nobody in terms of power on the world stage has a GDP of approximately $1.73 trillion USD with a population of ~37 million people.

GDP of just the US, EU and Canada combined is about $43 trillion/year. Comparing that to Russia as if they're on the same level is just a tad delusional.

[Dodger]

Moses, in your opinion, do the majority of Russian people support an invasion of Ukraine, or oppose it?

Reading some of your comments it's become clear that Russia has progressed over the years to becoming a very modern and progressive society, but, as we all know, young people in general view "war" as being a systemic breakdown in humanity and don't come anywhere close to supporting this option.

I've been assuming that the whole World prefers a diplomatic solution versus watching thousands or tens of thousands of people losing their lives because of political ideologies, but honestly, I can't get a read on how the Russian people themselves feel about this.

Your opinion on this would be appreciated.

[StevieWonders]

Moses, in your opinion, do the majority of Russian people support an invasion of Ukraine, or oppose it?

Reading some of your comments it's become clear that Russia has progressed over the years to becoming a very modern and progressive society, but, as we all know, young people in general view "war" as being a systemic breakdown in humanity and don't come anywhere close to supporting this option.

I've been assuming that the whole World prefers a diplomatic solution versus watching thousands or tens of thousands of people losing their lives because of political ideologies, but honestly, I can't get a read on how the Russian people themselves feel about this.

Your opinion on this would be appreciated.I see the propaganda ideals of Lenin are alive and well

[latintopxxx]

what a waste...stunningly beautiful men led to death...at times like this i stuggle to believe there is a God...

[Moses]

Moses, in your opinion, do the majority of Russian people support an invasion of Ukraine, or oppose it?

Reading some of your comments it's become clear that Russia has progressed over the years to becoming a very modern and progressive society, but, as we all know, young people in general view "war" as being a systemic breakdown in humanity and don't come anywhere close to supporting this option.

I've been assuming that the whole World prefers a diplomatic solution versus watching thousands or tens of thousands of people losing their lives because of political ideologies, but honestly, I can't get a read on how the Russian people themselves feel about this.

Your opinion on this would be appreciated.

It is wrong question.

Right question: if Ukraine will break Minsk protocol and will try to eliminate Russian population in the East of Ukraine, will citizens of Russia support counter strike? Answer is yes.

Like it was in Georgia in 2008: Russia slept until Saakashvilli lost his mind and started fire. Everything has been finished in 3 days after it.

[Moses]

No, they don't. Russia has a GDP of ~$1.48 trillion USD with a population of 145 million people. In contrast, Canada which is a nobody in terms of power on the world stage has a GDP of approximately $1.73 trillion USD with a population of ~37 million people.

GDP of just the US, EU and Canada combined is about $43 trillion/year. Comparing that to Russia as if they're on the same level is just a tad delusional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

12329

[Moses]

About half of year ago Ukraine started "Civil resistance" program. They distributing weapons among trusted civilian citizens (origination from West of Ukraine, Ukrainian by ethnicity, formerly Ukrainian army solders, nationalists).

Week ago there has been published news what this program failed in Kharkov, Dnipro, Odessa regions - they can't find people who accept weapon for to fight for current nationalists government. All 3 regions are around current unrest area at the East - Kharkov is laying on the North from it, Dnipro on the west and Odessa on the South. All 3 has huge (not majority but around 35-40%) Russian populations.

This installed by USA regime isn't popular within population on the East of Ukraine.

It is like it was in March 2014 - current "separatists" took power almost without fight - all security services (police, gendarmerie, army) just dissolved because they were formed from locals. All fight started only in June 2014 when nationalist and Nazi battalions from west (like "Azov" is) arrived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion neo-Nazism ideology, in UN reports: mass looting of civilian homes was documented, rape and torture.

[Dodger]

It is wrong question.

Right question: if Ukraine will break Minsk protocol and will try to eliminate Russian population in the East of Ukraine, will citizens of Russia support counter strike? Answer is yes.

Thank you for your response. That answered my question.

Russia certainly has an interesting history.

Just imagine how wonderful this World would be without all this conflict.

[Andy]

We have a joke saying - Russian citizens who behaved badly will become Russians again in the next life ;-) Unlike the utterly patriotic Moses, I share the position of our great poet Alexander Pushkin, who said: "Of course, I despise my fatherland from head to toe - but it annoys me if a foreigner shares this feeling with me."

[Moses]

We have a joke saying - Russian citizens who behaved badly will become Russians again in the next life ;-) Unlike the utterly patriotic Moses, I share the position of our great poet Alexander Pushkin, who said: "Of course, I despise my fatherland from head to toe - but it annoys me if a foreigner shares this feeling with me."

At least you didn't add me to cohort of Putin's adepts. Thank you :))))

[Nirish guy]

...at times like this i stuggle to believe there is a God...

There's a good reason for that ........being that there isn't one and all....

[StevieWonders]

We have a joke saying - Russian citizens who behaved badly will become Russians again in the next life ;-) Unlike the utterly patriotic Moses, I share the position of our great poet Alexander Pushkin, who said: "Of course, I despise my fatherland from head to toe - but it annoys me if a foreigner shares this feeling with me."The only saying I know about Russians is that the only way to see the difference between the men and the women is that the women plait the hair under their arms

[RonanTheBarbarian]

This installed by USA regime isn't popular within population on the East of Ukraine.s was documented, rape and torture.

Just on the above.

Firstly, you say the current government, headed by Zelenskyy, was “installed” by the USA. However, most impartial observers thought the Ukrainian presidential election of 2019 was a reasonably free and fair. Not perfect, but pretty good for the region.

But whatever doubts there may have been about that election, every unbiased observer believes that it was far more fair than the last Russian election that gave Putin another term.

So it is a bit rich for a pro-Russia poster to be throwing shade to Ukraine on the matter of democratic legitimacy of the regime.

Secondly, Zelenskyy might not be overly popular with Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine, but in the election of 2019 he did better in eastern Ukraine than the incumbent, Poroshenko.

(Obviously, when I say eastern Ukraine, I mean minus the breakaway Luhansk/Dometsk areas, but that was not by choice of the Ukraine government).

Results from the election show that Poroshenko did best in western Ukraine, where there are more Ukrainian speakers.

Perhaps Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine were holding their nose and voting for the least worst option,but a larger proportion of the voters (in the second round) in eastern Ukraine got their favourite candidate elected, than in Ukrainian speaking western Ukraine.

So the Russian speakers are not completely politically powerless in Ukraine.

[StevieWonders]

what a waste...stunningly beautiful men led to death...at times like this i stuggle to believe there is a God...As the body bags return to Russia from Ukraine the memory of the Afghanistan adventure will return to the Russian population

[cdnmatt]

And sure enough, as expected, Russia is withdrawing soldiers back to their bases:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuMAPRE1PZs

Putin bluffed, NATO called him out on his bluff, hence now Putin is going home with his tail between his legs. I think he was hoping for more of a Crimea type response, but when NATO came out so united, he changed his mind about the invasion.

Moses, what was this about Putin always gets what he wants?

[Moses]

Moses, what was this about Putin always gets what he wants?

He always get what he wants.

US offered to sign agreement about rockets of small and middle radius, that they quit at times of Trump, US offered to Russians to check NATO bases in Poland and Romania. US and UK already withdrew military instructors from Ukraine. Most of countries closed embassies in Ukraine.

Because of US and EU hysteria about invasion economy of Ukraine is totally on the knees: investors took money back, credit bank rates for Ukraine are unbelievable high, all European leaders now pushing Ukraine to compile with Minsk protocol - thing what Russia had no chance to dream at past 8 years, moreover: US and UK now pushing Ukraine to give autonomy to east region and with probability of 90% it will lead to current regime failure.

Last Ukrainian parliament session failed because there were only 24 members of 440, rest ran in panic, even flight companies canceled flights to Ukraine, and insurance companies withdrew insurance for Ukrainian aircrafts, so aircrafts today are located in Spain instead of flying in Ukrainian sky.

You know: sometimes you may win war without to start it. Modern war doesn't need invasion.

[cdnmatt]

Nah, I'm pretty confident this is called Putin getting put in his place on the world stage.

[Moses]

Nah, I'm pretty confident this is called Putin getting put in his place on the world stage.

sure, sure... and proof of putting to the place is Canadian evacuation of diplomat families from Ukraine...

don't stop to dream, you don't need facts, Matt

but right now US destroys equipment in US embassy in the capital of Ukraine - Kyev, embassy is closed (Canadian is also closed)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/ukraine-embassy-russia-us-b2015012.html

If it is "to put in his place" then OK... as you say

[cdnmatt]

All that proves is the Western governments think Putin is mentally unstable and unpredictable, so better safe than sorry.

[Moses]

All that proves is the Western governments think Putin is mentally unstable and unpredictable, so better safe than sorry.

as you wish :)

but fact is: Ukraine is now in panic and that panic has been created by American and European mouths. Ukraine is now in deepest financial crisis and that crisis has been created by American and European hands - even Ukrainian money are cheaper 12% just in one week - good time for Russia to buy Ukrainian goods.

Level of support of current Ukrainian president is around 20% (75% 2 years ago), and his party now is on 4th place (1st 2 years ago), absolute majority in parliament now will be changed to few back seats at 2023. Looks like somebody confused presidents in attempts "to put in his place"

[cdnmatt]

And you can think what you want...

Planned Russian invasion of Ukraine was averted, Ukraine's territorial sovereignty remains intact, NATO's united resolve received a huge boost, and more than likely Ukraine will still become a NATO member sometime in the near future.

In turn, Russia spent a bunch of money to piss off ~130,000 soldiers by moving them close to the Ukraine border, and making them hang out in the cold winter weather before sending them back home without doing anything.

[Moses]

Planned Russian invasion of Ukraine was averted

You forgot: declared by US "planned invasion'. Even Ukrainian president and Ukrainian minister of defense says that there is no sign of planned invasion.

What I can say? Biden is very old and probably has sometimes weird dreams.



In turn, Russia spent a bunch of money to piss off ~130,000 soldiers by moving them close to the Ukraine border, and making them hang out in the cold winter weather before sending them back home without doing anything.

well, I don't want to guess how much that panic will cost to American tax payers, to Canadian, British and so on... And if we will talk about Ukraine, then financial loss from American panic will cost to it more than cost of sanctions to Russia. It looks like joke - Russia is announced as aggressor, but flight are canceled to Ukraine, investors ran from Ukraine, embassies are closed in Ukraine.

[cdnmatt]

You forgot: declared by US "planned invasion'. Even Ukrainian president and Ukrainian minister of defense says that there is no sign of planned invasion.

So if myself and 20 other people all armed with automatic weapons showed up in front of your house and stared at you while saying, "dont worry, we're not here to break in" you would believe me?

[Moses]

So if myself and 20 other people all armed with automatic weapons showed up in front of your house and stared at you while saying, "dont worry, we're not here to break in" you would believe me?

So, if my crazy aunt will call me from opposite side of the city and cry what there are 20 armed people in front of my house - I will take a look to the window first.

[Dodger]

In code-red situations foreign embassy's can be completely closed and gutted in less than 48 hours. It takes less time than that to reopen them again when the green light is given.

Regardless of why Putin is withdrawing his troops. it's just a good thing he is. I'm sure the soldiers on both sides of the border are feeling a great sense of relief...not to mention the civilians who are trying to raise their families and live normal lives.

It's easy for armchair quarterbacks to sit back and cheer their sides to victory - without having the foggiest clue what mortal combat really entails. Ironically, those who have served in the military, especially those with combat experience, tend to take a more subdued position.

[cdnmatt]

So, if my crazy aunt will call me from opposite side of the city and cry what there are 20 armed people in front of my house - I will take a look to the window first.


Yes, that's kind of why this whole shitshow happened. Everyone looked out the window, and instead of seeing barren land as they normally would, they seen 130,000 armed Russian soldiers who are normally living close to their bases further inland in Russia.

[Nirish guy]

PUTIN..... He always get what he wants.

US offered to sign agreement about rockets ....... You know: sometimes you may win war without to start it. Modern war doesn't need invasion.

But hang on surely you said the Russians weren't doing ANYTHING and this was all western fabrication and you simply had your own troops stationed in your own Country and the west was making this all up !

So are you saying now that "actually" yes it was all smart tactics of "war" ( but without war) by Putin after all and it wasn't just your own troops moving around and just sitting around in your own Country after all as you'd suggested to us ???

You wouldn't ever be telling lies to us now by any chance Moses would you ?? lol :-)

[StevieWonders]

The government in Ukraine has just said they’re prepared to abjure joining NATO. That’s been Putin’s aim all along - no NATO state on Russia’s border. Meanwhile there’s been weeks of posturing by Western governments crying “wolf” about a Russian invasion of Ukraine which was never going to happen. Putin can’t risk the opprobrium of a war with the Russian population. However the kleptocrats who prop up and benefit from his regime may well find that the planning for economic sanctions by Western governments in the fake war preparations may still be used against them to their detriment

As former British Prime Minister Harold Macmillan commented when asked about the unpredictability of government, “Events, dear boy, events”

[cdnmatt]

The government in Ukraine has just said they’re prepared to abjure joining NATO.

Source?

[StevieWonders]

Source?Gander

[cdnmatt]

Only thing I can find is 21 hours ago Zelensky: saying Ukraine wants to be part of NATO still.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4_JUhMe0Go

[Moses]

But hang on surely you said the Russians weren't doing ANYTHING and this was all western fabrication and you simply had your own troops stationed in your own Country and the west was making this all up !

So are you saying now that "actually" yes it was all smart tactics of "war" ( but without war) by Putin after all and it wasn't just your own troops moving around and just sitting around in your own Country after all as you'd suggested to us ???

You wouldn't ever be telling lies to us now by any chance Moses would you ?? lol :-)

No. Army parts always were on perimeter of western border of Russia. Memory and flashbacks from past, you know. There are a lot of articles about dislocations in Wiki. Just check it: Kursk, Orel, Belgorod, Yelnya and so on - all these cities now on the map of "dislocations" from propaganda. But they (troops) always were there, even at times of USSR. And that I exactly told about Yelnya many pages ago. So I say the same what I told before.

It is Matt who is talking about troops withdrawal. I'm writing only about "Putin always have what he wants".

[latintopxxx]

...I really fear for the immediate future...The Us is led by a dementia patient and is weakened by toxic internal politiocs verging on civil war.....the UK has a mop haired bufoon at the helm with no shred of human decency....the EU as usual is all platitudes but totally toothless...merkel is no more....Macron is french...that says it all......on the other side we have a clever bright eyed totally focused fox able to mobilise 130,000 well armed men over a long weekend....scary...

[Moses]

...I really fear for the immediate future...The Us is led by a dementia patient and is weakened by toxic internal politiocs verging on civil war.....the UK has a mop haired bufoon at the helm with no shred of human decency....the EU as usual is all platitudes but totally toothless...merkel is no more....Macron is french...that says it all......on the other side we have a clever bright eyed totally focused fox able to mobilise 130,000 well armed men over a long weekend....scary...

That I predicted. Scholtz just gave offer from Ukraine to Putin about autonomy for East of Ukraine (special status law), it is 3rd step of Minsk protocol. If it will be implemented then everything will roll on right way, and then 8 years of waiting will be ended and will be relax in that drama.

[cdnmatt]

So Ukraine is splitting into two countries now? Are the Russians going to build another big ass wall?

In essence, the line moved from middle of Germany to Eastern Ukraine? That works.

[Moses]

So Ukraine is splitting into two countries now? Are the Russians going to build another big ass wall?

No, why? Russia does not recognize East as a separate country. East need Russian language at first as official local language. It is forbidden now. After special status they will get it back as it was before 2014. Also they will have Russian schools and ТV.

[cdnmatt]

Sounds good, and NATO will expand to include Western Ukraine.

[Moses]

Sounds good, and NATO will expand to include Western Ukraine.

They have no chance: as it was at past, parliament of Ukraine, where will be eastern members, will never have enough votes for to approve such law. Ukraine will keep neutral status after that.

[Moses]

Google translation from Ukrainian to English, quote from today speech of leader of president's party in Ukraine in parliament:


“Every month we incur losses of $2-3 billion, panic is provoked. We cannot borrow money in foreign markets: there are already crazy rates. In addition, importers refuse to work with us. Every day we count losses. When someone decides to move their embassy to Lviv, the news alone will cost Ukraine several hundred million dollars.”

[cdnmatt]

They have no chance: as it was at past, parliament of Ukraine, where will be eastern members, will never have enough votes for to approve such law. Ukraine will keep neutral status after that.

You said some provinces in Eastern Ukraine are getting usurped by Russia, so fuck them, they don't get a vote.

[Moses]

You said some provinces in Eastern Ukraine are getting usurped by Russia, so fuck them, they don't get a vote.

"they don't get a vote" only if they aren't regions of Ukraine, you know... and I never said what any provinces of Ukraine are usurped - Russia has no armies in Ukraine, no one soldier.

PS in awaiting of Russian invasion Reuters started live from Ukrainian capital Kyev. Don't forget to bring popcorn.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_JRSioZZyQ

and British The Sun announced invasion tonight:

12336

[Dodger]

Google translation from Ukrainian to English, quote from today speech of leader of president's party in Ukraine in parliament:

Fortunately, for the people of Ukraine, imports/exports should start improving incrementally once all of Putin's troops are removed from their border and life in Ukraine can resume to some level of normalcy. Markets and Investors don't like risk!

When a fox is intent on killing a hen it moves so quietly through the bush that you can hear a pin drop. If you see the same fox standing in the middle of a field in broad daylight growling loud enough to disrupt an entire valley, he's just selling woof tickets.

Unfortunately, for the loud fox, he'll have to be satisfied with a bone that one of the farmers toss him just to get him out of their sight, so life in the valley can return to normal again. Such is life!

[StevieWonders]

It’s simplistic to think in terms of East versus West in today’s global multi-polar world

[StevieWonders]

PS in awaiting of Russian invasion Reuters started live from Ukrainian capital Kyev. Don't forget to bring popcorn.What we have is a Schrodinger’s invasion

[Nirish guy]

Shitty move of Putin in an interview to dare to bring even the mention of Nuclear weapons into the discussion when discussing how yes the West might be more powerful than Russia when allied militarily etc but Russia does have nuclear weapons which some of the smaller countries belonging to the allied side dont. That should be a topic just never to be thrown about so loosely and casually ( even as the veiled threat it obviously was meant to be) and as a veiled "reminder" of what we "could" do if we wanted type conversation. Very below the belt and not statesman like.

His quote ( I'll have to accept the translation as accurate as I dont speak russian of course) was something like :

"I want to reiterate , I have said this before but I would really like you to hear me this time and convey this message to your readers, viewers and internet users. Do you realise that if Ukraine joins NATO and decides to take Crimea back through military means the european Countries will automatically get drawn into a military conflict with Russia? Of course Nato's united potential and that of Russia are incomparable. We understand that, but we ALSO understand that Russia is one of the world leading Nuclear powers and is superior to many of those countries in terms of the number of modern nuclear force components. But there will be no winners, and you will find yourselves drawn into this conflict against your will."

He does go on to say that he doesn't want that and will try to find compromises etc but either way, to even drop the mere hint of any nuclear aspect to things is a low ball move and says plenty about his mindset perhaps, maybe he isn't so different to Trump after all and I've given him too much credit until now :-(

[StevieWonders]

Shitty move of Putin Surely you’ve realised by now that Putin isn’t a gentleman?

[cdnmatt]

Let's just hope Putin has Perimeter turned off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz3WGHCEP20

[StevieWonders]

Let's just hope Putin has Perimeter turned off.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz3WGHCEP20Your reliance on crap on YouTube never fails to entertain

[cdnmatt]

Your reliance on crap on YouTube never fails to entertain

I know you prefer quotations from the Encyclopedia Britannica, but that's just not my style.

[StevieWonders]

I know you prefer quotations from the Encyclopedia Britannica, but that's just not my style.Statement Of The Bleeding Obvious Award for 17 February 2022. How's your research going for the WA Visa for Thailand?

[cdnmatt]

Statement Of The Bleeding Obvious Award for 17 February 2022. How's your research going for the WA Visa for Thailand?


Here's what Putin is basically doing right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

[Dodger]

"I want to reiterate , I have said this before but I would really like you to hear me this time and convey this message to your readers, viewers and internet users. Do you realise that if Ukraine joins NATO and decides to take Crimea back through military means the european Countries will automatically get drawn into a military conflict with Russia? (

The hypothetical scenario you describe above is irrelevant because Ukraine is not even being considered for NATO membership. And if the day were to ever come where they were, NATO doesn't automatically support military conflicts involving NATO members, unless the member state is being invaded or under threat of attack by a hostile nation.

Fighting for land rights isn't part of NATO's charter.

[StevieWonders]

The hypothetical scenario you describe above is irrelevant because Ukraine is not even being considered for NATO membership. "Ukraine" literally means "borderland" of course. One must always be wary of unleashing ethno-nationalist forces.

[Nirish guy]

The hypothetical scenario you describe above .

Just for clarity I'm sure you realised that that was me directly quoting Putins comments during an interview, not my own thoughts. I actually think it was him trying to muddy the water even more than he already is by as you say implying a) Ukraine may be joining Nato and this ultimately Nato would then have to join some backwards stamped war to reclaim Crimea, as even if Ukraine were allowed to join that I doubt would be the case - which Putin well knows too of course. But hey never let the facts get in the way of a good / bad bit of PR and propaganda eh.

[StevieWonders]

Just for clarity I'm sure you realised that that was me directly quoting Putins comments during an interview, not my own thoughts. I actually think it was him trying to muddy the water even more than he already is by as you say implying a) Ukraine may be joining Nato and this ultimately Nato would then have to join some backwards stamped war to reclaim Crimea, as even if Ukraine were allowed to join that I doubt would be the case - which Putin well knows too of course. But hey never let the facts get in the way of a good / bad bit of PR and propaganda eh.Dodgems isn't that bright surely you realise? Putin is in danger of over-playing his hand

[cdnmatt]

Dodgems isn't that bright surely you realise? Putin is in danger of over-playing his hand

He already has. There's been no invasion and there won't be one.

[StevieWonders]

He already has. There's been no invasion and there won't be one.Did you see that on YouTube?