Who can explain?

[vnman]

I am far from a conspiracy thinker but the world just doesn't make sense to me. What's going on in Asia and Europe? All the lockdowns and whatnot. I've been to Mexico in Aug en Sep of this year. Nothing needed to get into the country, not even a test. Partying in clubs like crazy! Now, a few months later and things are even more open than before.

It just blows my mind.

[latintopxxx]

...not to generalise....but they do seem to br a robust people....lot younger and live in challenging enviornment....or maybe all the compromiused/old omes doed...it did hit Mexico very heavily earlier on

[StevieWonders]

I am far from a conspiracy thinker but the world just doesn't make sense to me. What's going on in Asia and Europe? All the lockdowns and whatnot. I've been to Mexico in Aug en Sep of this year. Nothing needed to get into the country, not even a test. Partying in clubs like crazy! Now, a few months later and things are even more open than before.

It just blows my mind.Different countries tried different approaches. Apart from killing off everyone in their aged care homes some would argue the Swedes took the right approach for a First World country, at least until Delta came along. I guess there’s several PhD topics we can expect to see in the next few years

[dinagam]

...

[latintopxxx]

...its soros I'd be concerned about...

[dinagam]

...

[arsenal]

That piece is a right old load of bollocks and totally ignores slavery, the inquisition, all empires, the British East India Company, the Dutch East India Company, France in S.E Asia, WW2, The Holocaust, the Soviet Union, all religions and plenty more. You don't gotta buy a Tesler, you don't gotta buy from Amazon and you don't gotta join Facebook etc.

[goji]

Not only is it bollocks, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread topic.

[cdnmatt]

I'm pretty sure it's just a case of nobody knows...

[christianpfc]

I am far from a conspiracy thinker but the world just doesn't make sense to me. What's going on in Asia and Europe? All the lockdowns and whatnot. I've been to Mexico in Aug en Sep of this year. Nothing needed to get into the country, not even a test. Partying in clubs like crazy! Now, a few months later and things are even more open than before.

It just blows my mind.
Same here. In my layman opinion, Covid is just a hyped annual common flu and without all that testing, nobody would notice a difference between Covid and no Covid.

Dinagam, could you post links instead of screenshots, and think if it it's relevant to the subject of the thread before posting?

[dinagam]

It is relevant. Up to you...

[Uranus]

Same here. In my layman opinion, Covid is just a hyped annual common flu and without all that testing, nobody would notice a difference between Covid and no Covid.

You’ve got your PhD in medicine from where?

[goji]

You’ve got your PhD in medicine from where?

When Christian clearly states that he's expressing a layman opinion, why would he need a PhD in medicine ?

I'm also not claiming to have a PhD in medicine, but I can count and am used to working with data.

1 I checked a 6 month period in 2021 and flu or pneumonia appeared on more UK death certificates than COVID.
2 AFTER vaccination, it seems the COVID death rate will be comparable with a bad flu season.
3 Life expectancy has been improving for decades. Covid is setting it back about 5 years, perhaps slightly more if we're pessimistic. However, we still have better life expectancy than at the start of the 21st century.
4 Omicron has a lower hospitalisation ratio than Delta. Most people are now vaccinated.

Therefore, it's time to stop all these crazy restrictions and allow people to live as normal. Those who don't like that can choose to isolate themselves, rather than expect others to do so.

[latintopxxx]

not so sure that covid is that harmless...irrespective of what reaspn /cause has been written on their death certificates if we look at simple raw data, so deaths/million people.... the death rate hasd increased since covid arrived......that is the only common factor...and this in countries with good record keeping...

[dinagam]

Death with covid is not the same as death due to covid... too many deaths associated with grossly obese citizens, not to mention the chronic debilities related to alcohol on the body and mind...all being tallied together when policy makers heavily influence scientific studies and data manipulation in connivance with big pharmas and political elites.
Let's see how the current moronic variant will expose the falsehood...

[alvnv]

I know of quite a few people who were exceptionally healthy but could not survive covid. There’s much more too it on a genetic level, and it will take years of research to find out the cause of discrepancies in the covid mortality

[StevieWonders]

Death with covid is not the same as death due to covid... too many deaths associated with grossly obese citizens, not to mention the chronic debilities related to alcohol on the body and mind...That’s no way to talk about our Pattaya membership

[francois]

Same here. In my layman opinion, Covid is just a hyped annual common flu and without all that testing, nobody would notice a difference between Covid and no Covid.



Christian, can you provide statistics that back up your claims regarding Covid.

[Surfcrest]

I just flew in from Mexico a few days ago. Yes, there’s not a lot of chatter about Covid, because the bigger impact is what it’s doing to people’s lives economically. Of course, I didn’t poll the people down there, but I know quite a few nationals and I’ve met very few that haven’t had it already. I’m not sure if having it once gives the best immunity, but our health officials in Canada seem to be saying now, getting the more transmissible but less severe Omicron might be the next best defence to getting more potent strains of the virus, down the road.

Surfcrest

[latintopxxx]

dinagam...thank you for supporting the truth...as u rightly pointed out in a roundabout way the common denominator is covid....lung issues/ashma/diabetes/overweight/weak immune system + covid=probable death

[christianpfc]

Christian, can you provide statistics that back up your claims regarding Covid.

I follow news about Covid only loosely, but I once somewhere [citation needed] saw a graph that showed mortality over years, where the annual flue was a light bump, and Covid was a slightly bigger bump.

50 years ago, without current analytical methods, Covid would have gone unnoticed by the general population. Only statisticians would have noticed that there is an increased mortality above natural fluctuations.

[goji]

I follow news about Covid only loosely, but I once somewhere [citation needed] saw a graph that showed mortality over years, where the annual flue was a light bump, and Covid was a slightly bigger bump.

Such data exists.
Also, our life expectancy is better than 20 years ago, possibly better than 10 years ago. We're living in one of the best periods ever for life expectancy. COVID is just some minor noise overlaid on the graph showing good long term trends.

[RonanTheBarbarian]

All this talk of statistics, and long-term trends, ignores the practical fact that the current Covid surge is causing huge problems for health systems in many countries.

For example, in my own country,Ireland, the hospital closest to my parents has 10 ICU beds. I am informed that at a certain point last week, the 10 of them were occupied by Covid patients. My mother asked asked a nurse who had worked for many years in the hospital would it be normal for a lot of pneumonia and flu sufferers take up many ICU beds during seasonal flu epidemics.

She was told that during the height of flu season, in normal years, maybe three or four beds would be taken up by flu patients.

But, as I said, the ICU is full now.

This has a knock-on effect as people who are due to come in for operations, where Intensive Care would be needed for 24 hours after the surgery, are being told to stay away, and these are being postponed.

This is creating a huge problem health service. This is in a country have many people are still working from home etc.

Perhaps the way countries have reacted to Covid was over-the-top, but anybody who claims is just a really bad flu that countries have mysteriously lost their heads over, just doesn’t understand the situation, imho.

[StevieWonders]

Absolutely Ronan - the collateral damage to the health of millions is already resulting in oncology patients, for example, unable to get treatment or have an operation scheduled, let alone those unable even to have their condition diagnosed

[francois]

I follow news about Covid only loosely, but I once somewhere [citation needed] saw a graph that showed mortality over years, where the annual flue was a light bump, and Covid was a slightly bigger bump.


In the USA, Covid was the third leading cause of death in 2020 accounting for 350,831 deaths while Influenza/Pneumonia was the ninth leading cause at 53,544 deaths.That is a six fold difference. Admittedly, most of the deaths were those over 50 years of age, which if one is younger, it might just be a bump but, to me, it is a human life lost.

[StevieWonders]

In the USA, Covid was the third leading cause of death in 2020 accounting for 350,831 deaths while Influenza/Pneumonia was the ninth leading cause at 53,544 deaths.That is a six fold difference. Admittedly, most of the deaths were those over 50 years of age, which if one is younger, it might just be a bump but, to me, it is a human life lost.”lost”? I do hope they find it again. An American evangelist once asked me if I had found the Lord. I replied that I didn’t know he was lost

[francois]

”lost”? I do hope they find it again. An American evangelist once asked me if I had found the Lord. I replied that I didn’t know he was lost

Wonder no more Stevie, lost is an euphemism for someone who died,as if you didn't know.:devilsh:

[StevieWonders]

Wonder no more Stevie, lost is an euphemism for someone who died,as if you didn't know.:devilsh:Lower middle class euphemism

[GWMinUS]

As someone who turns 81 years old this January I have dealt with fears of Covid-19 for the past 2 years.
Here in the USA it is real!! Over 800,000 deaths.
I just am trying to not be one of them!!!

[StevieWonders]

As someone who turns 81 years old this January I have dealt with fears of Covid-19 for the past 2 years.
Here in the USA it is real!! Over 800,000 deaths.
I just am trying to not be one of them!!!
You're double vaccinated and boostered? A friend of mine in his mid-80s is fearful of having the Pfizer or other mRNA vaccination because "we don't know the long term effects"! At 85!! How long does he think he's got to start worrying about "long-term effects"??

[dinagam]

.....

[goji]

More total bullshit posted by Dinagam.

The headline refers to a US death toll from vaccines. To calculate this, the Columbia university researchers allegedly used some bullshit factor based on the alleged underreporting of deaths from Chinese vaccines.
Chinese vaccines are not used in the US.

Columbia is a reputable University and I expect the reference to them is also fake.

Unfortunately the board doesn't yet have any rules against posting bullshit fake news, but this is way off topic, as it has nothing whatsoever to do with travel restrictions and it's introducing fiction into a factual thread.

[StevieWonders]

More total bullshit posted by Dinagam.

The headline refers to a US death toll from vaccines. To calculate this, the Columbia university researchers allegedly used some bullshit factor based on the alleged underreporting of deaths from Chinese vaccines.
Chinese vaccines are not used in the US.

Columbia is a reputable University and I expect the reference to them is also fake.

Unfortunately the board doesn't yet have any rules against posting bullshit fake news, but this is way off topic, as it has nothing whatsoever to do with travel restrictions and it's introducing fiction into a factual thread.
As a committed Bookburner you'd think goji would put dinagam on his {Ignore} list. Is consistency too much to expect?

[christianpfc]

This is the graph I had in mind:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXjEMfPsDiT/
(picture on Instagram, text in German: blue dots are averages from before Corona, red is additional deads due to Corona; elsewhere I saw graphs where Corona has the same effect as a heavy flu).

12063

Everyone has to die some day, somewhere, from something.
And I would rather die statistically 3 days earlier, than spending the rest of my life with lockdowns, boosters and tests.

[goji]

Exactly. Once people are vaccinated, the overall death rate with COVID is not that different to normal.

Also, our life expectancy is still better than 20 years ago.

[Surfcrest]

As we get older, we rely more on our healthcare system…or we rely on it to be there. That might not be the biggest concern for younger members that have never needed healthcare or are highly unlikely to ever need it, based on the limited risks they take in life (at home, or abroad). Depending on our individual lifestyle, we might be able to navigate around supply chain issues or breaks from the norm, when businesses we usually depend on can’t function…due to infections, staffing or government restrictions. Even if we’re able to live outside lockdowns, boosters and tests…what kind or normalcy could we hope to live in, given all the other variables?

I think our best approach as a civilization is to focus on getting the folks on the planet that haven’t had any vaccinations ahead of making plans for 4th and 5th doses…or we’ll be just chasing our tail with this pandemic for the next years ahead. And then have serious international conversations about overpopulation…and what that’s doing to the planet.

Surfcrest

[francois]

Everyone has to die some day, somewhere, from something.
And I would rather die statistically 3 days earlier, than spending the rest of my life with lockdowns, boosters and tests.

Christian, in your own words, it is all about your life and not the lives of millions of others.
No one wants lockdowns, boosters, tests,etc, but it is a price we all must endure.
The "3 days earlier" you mention makes little sense.

[StevieWonders]

As we get older, we rely more on our healthcare system…or we rely on it to be there. That might not be the biggest concern for younger members that have never needed healthcare or are highly unlikely to ever need it, based on the limited risks they take in life (at home, or abroad). Depending on our individual lifestyle, we might be able to navigate around supply chain issues or breaks from the norm, when businesses we usually depend on can’t function…due to infections, staffing or government restrictions. Even if we’re able to live outside lockdowns, boosters and tests…what kind or normalcy could we hope to live in, given all the other variables?

I think our best approach as a civilization is to focus on getting the folks on the planet that haven’t had any vaccinations ahead of making plans for 4th and 5th doses…or we’ll be just chasing our tail with this pandemic for the next years ahead. And then have serious international conversations about overpopulation…and what that’s doing to the planet.

SurfcrestWhat you’re saying isthat it’s LESS important to keep the already vaccinated, vaccinated, than getting everyone else vaccinated. Being vaccinated has a short shelf-life so if you don’t keep boosters up we will have to start all over again

[francois]

Obviously I am over reacting to posts on the subject topic and will cease further comments.
Think I have Covid mania.:crazy_mini:

[Nirish guy]

And then have serious international conversations about overpopulation…and what that’s doing to the planet.

Should you need a starting point for the above conversation I already have quite a few lists already drawn up containing names of people who could be quite easily done away with without much loss to society ?

[arsenal]

"And then have serious international conversations about overpopulation…and what that’s doing to the planet."

This century is going to be the century of elephants in rooms. All those issues that governments have ignored will require some very tough decisions.
Overpopulation.
Ageing population.
Droughts.
Floods.
War.
Famine.
Pestilence.

[StevieWonders]

Should you need a starting point for the above conversation I already have quite a few lists already drawn up containing names of people who could be quite easily done away with without much loss to society ?

https://youtu.be/TW_Ukl71OH4

[vnman]

No one wants lockdowns, boosters, tests,etc, but it is a price we all must endure.


But is it though?

That was the initial point I was trying to make with this thread. I'm still in Mexico, a country with absolutely no entree requirements. That means you can jump on a plane, unvaccinated, not tested and not quarantined. There is no lockdown! You can go clubbing 7 nights a week and do any other activity you can think of.

Who is enduring a price? People in Thailand? Yes, with all their precautions and tests, quarantine and sandboxes, they still say it is not manageable.

So, unless it is the altitude here in Mexico that affects COVID, I have no explanation.

Obviously, I don't want to Jinx it and I hope life keeps going as it did here for (at least) the last 7 months.

[goji]

Thailand has the correct policy for 2020.

Mexico has the correct policy for 2022.

[mr giggles]

But is it though?

That was the initial point I was trying to make with this thread. I'm still in Mexico, a country with absolutely no entree requirements.......

...and 300,000 + deaths...

[Surfcrest]

What you’re saying isthat it’s LESS important to keep the already vaccinated, vaccinated, than getting everyone else vaccinated. Being vaccinated has a short shelf-life so if you don’t keep boosters up we will have to start all over again

Do we need to go back to naming these variants based on where they are mutating among unvaccinated people?

Surfcrest

[StevieWonders]

Do we need to go back to naming these variants based on where they are mutating among unvaccinated people? I'm perfectly happy to call them Xi-1, Xi-2 etc

[christianpfc]

I'm still in Mexico, a country with absolutely no entree requirements. That means you can jump on a plane, unvaccinated, not tested and not quarantined. There is no lockdown! You can go clubbing 7 nights a week and do any other activity you can think of.

Count me in for my summer vacation!

Do people in Mexico wear masks?

[arsenal]

Yes. Most of them are bandits.

[latintopxxx]

arsenal is on the same page as Trump....lol

[vnman]

Count me in for my summer vacation!

Do people in Mexico wear masks?

I never read your question, Christian. But people did wear masks inside, but not in clubs.

Not sure if Mexico City would be your cup of tea. I know you're not a party mouse and there is no massage scene you would be interested in. It is mostly macho guys. But that is only from a boy's perspective. Culturally it is a great country. Who knows, you might discover a whole other side of Gay Mexico that I don't know.

And there is always Grindr.

[Dragonman]

I follow news about Covid only loosely, but I once somewhere [citation needed] saw a graph that showed mortality over years, where the annual flue was a light bump, and Covid was a slightly bigger bump.

50 years ago, without current analytical methods, Covid would have gone unnoticed by the general population. Only statisticians would have noticed that there is an increased mortality above natural fluctuations.

"50 years ago" would have been in the 1970s. Influenza vaccines were developed in the 1940s, when influenza was already known. Covid-19 vaccines were developed after the beginning of the pandemic. So the comparison is flawed.

The BMJ has an interesting report - "Covid and flu: what do the numbers tell us about morbidity and deaths? (https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2514) - pointing out that reported deaths from influenza often include deaths from pneumonia, so the figures for influenza deaths are usually under-reporting actual ones. The report includes the comment: "In the UK the Health Foundation has articulated the difference in impact between flu and covid in terms of life years. “In a bad flu year on average around 30 000 people in the UK die from flu and pneumonia, with a loss of around 250 000 life years. This is a sixth of the life years lost to covid-19,” it noted."

Demographers estimate the global population in 1918 at about 1.8 billion persons. The 1918 "Spanish Flu" or H1N1 pandemic killed somewhere around 50 million people worldwide. These figures suggest that about 30% of the world’s population was infected during that pandemic and that it killed about 2.7% of that population (https://www.marshallindependent.com/opinion/local-columns/2021/03/our-1918-pandemic-the-numbers-then-and-now/). People noticed.

An interesting phenomenon of the Covid-19 pandemic is that the annual death rate influenza has declined - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2783644.