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snotface
December 22nd, 2021, 09:58
I first came to Thailand as a tourist in 1988 and moved out here to live in 2005. That's a lot of time spent in Thailand. Obvious question: has it made me happy? Well, happiness comes in many shapes and sizes. If by it we mean deep, lasting happiness, no, Thailand certainly hasn't done that, though I believe it to be possible given wiser life choices than I have made. On the other hand, when I look back on my dark, repressed, pre-Thailand self I feel that I am in a better place now. My main reason for coming to Thailand has always been the boys and the relaxed, guilt-free attitude to sex of most Thai boys has inevitably 'rubbed off' (ahem) on me to some extent.

I have had sex with several hundred boys in my time (a modest tally by the standards of some) and I don't regret it at all, though I sometimes feel I should have moved on by now. The chase has always excited me (if 'chase' is the right word to describe walking into a bar and saying 'I'll have number eight please'). As for the actual bed event, it has sometimes been a disappointment or even a complete waste of time, but more often I have been pleasantly surprised by how giving many of the boys are. Always the high of physical release is followed for me by a level of unease - or even self-disgust if little or no rapport with the boy has been established. Then it just feels like unadorned lust, brutish and ultimately coarsening. Many here will probably disagree. Good for them, I'm just reporting how I personally react after the paid sex to which I am addicted. (For a truly damning take on lust, try reading Shakespeare's sonnet 129).

On several occasions I have become emotionally entangled with boys (let me count them – five) for periods from anywhere between nine months and three years. I find it hard to bring myself to say 'fallen in love' since even to me it feels like such wimpish folly to have done so with barboys. Bad odds. The highs have been intoxicatingly high in these relationships, but the lows far, far worse than normal. Oh, all that clinging, the jealousy, the constant anxiety, the mind games, the humiliations, the frustrations. It hasn't helped at all that the boys I have become involved with have usually had lukewarm feelings towards me at best, often degenerating into dislike. (No need to point out that low self-esteem on my part has a lot to do with my toleration of this situation). The one consolation is that I have never put myself at risk of financial ruin in these relationships. So a modicum of commonsense. I was on the verge of it in the case of one boy with whom I was utterly besotted, but another farang whisked him away to live in Bangkok at an opportune moment (it didn't feel like good fortune at the time).

The longest I have actually lived with a Thai boy was for two years soon after I moved here to live. He was nineteen, new to the bar scene, quite good-looking. I was never in love with him, but it felt like a good time to try the live-in experience. For the first year I was probably more contented than at any time before or since. We made trips in Thailand together, he had his own music-making hobby, sex was available at any time I wanted it, there were no requests to help the family. I think actually that he fell in love with me, which was quite a novelty. If anyone got jealous it was him. Why did it finally go wrong? Usual reasons: the sex gradually became a chore and I grew increasingly bored, what with the age gap, the culture gap, the everything gap. A crisis point was reached when he returned a couple of hours early from a trip to Bangkok one day and found me in flagrante delicto with another boy. A scene worthy of French farce. There were tears, recriminations. He said he forgave me but things were never the same again. We stuttered and spluttered our way to a parting of company.

Abraham Lincoln is supposed to have said that 'love is a many-stringed harp', an oblique reference perhaps to his habit of sleeping in the same bed with another male (in fairness to honest Abe, that didn't automatically confer the status of poofterdom back then). Anyway, I wholeheartedly endorse his sentiment. In the last couple of years I have had some experience of this myself. I first met Num (as I'll call him) twelve years ago when he was twenty and working in a popular bar in Boyztown. He was the star looker with offs almost every night. I was immediately attracted to him, just my type: slim, beautiful eyes, smooth-skinned, gentle-looking but not effeminate. When I called him over he kept calling me 'darling' which irritated me (years later he admitted with a smile that it was one of only about a dozen English words he knew at the time). Back at my condo he turned out to be a so-so performer in bed but his dazzling looks made up for it. Oh, that gorgeous butt! He seemed to like me and we saw each other quite often for a while. I wondered whether I was about to enter the dreaded falling-in-love minefield again, but it never happened for some reason.

After a year or so he went to work in a bar in Bangkok and we lost touch for a number of years. Then I heard from him that he had gone to Kuala Lumpur to work in a massage shop, a few months at a time. We had occasional brief meetings, happy to see each other, him looking as sexy as ever, apparently ageless. The meetings died out. At times I began to think we had drifted apart for good, but then another Line message would pop up and we'd have a little chat. About two years ago I received a photo from him of a partly-built house near his parents' home in Khon Kaen. It had little more than foundations laid and a couple of breeze-block walls. He said he had run out of money and could I help him. Fool, I thought, fancy starting such a project with nowhere near enough money. I immediately rejected the idea and started to ignore follow-up requests. A couple of months passed, the messages becoming increasingly desperate. In the latest one, the poor, skeletal house was looking derelict before it was even built. By chance, I was in the throes of breaking up with my latest paramour (no fool like an old fool) and Num caught me on the rebound, feeling vulnerable. I thought to myself, If I were to die tomorrow or leave Thailand, would any Thai boy have any kindly thoughts towards me or would I quickly be consigned to oblivion? Almost certainly the latter. Although I had never been in love with Num, we had been friends for a long time. I had come into a chunk of money from a property sale in London. I was in a position to help without endangering my own finances. Almost on impulse (not quite), I decided to do so.

To cut the story short, I paid in instalments for the small bungalow to be finished. It has a decent-sized front and back garden which Num, good Isaan boy that he is (actually he's now thirty-two) has planted with lots of fruit and vegetables. He already had a nearby one-rai plot of land to grow rice and when he told me a while back that an opportunity had arisen to buy an adjoining four-rai plot I paid for that too. His reaction to all this has touched me. He has been very affectionate and very grateful. I've saved his life, he assures me, and I'm his Buddha (!). I get floral greetings on Line every morning and cheery goodnights at the end of the day. In between I usually get photos or videos showing me what he is currently up to. I like to have this previously-limited contact with rural Thailand on a daily basis and have told him I will visit as soon as the Covid situation improves.

He comes to see me for a few days at a time and did so just recently. He still looks sexy and his usually happy disposition warms me as it always has done. I don't lust after him, which puzzles me somewhat, for he can still turn heads when we are out and about. At all sorts of odd moments shafts of tenderness towards him surge through me. At night we lie chastely next to each other in bed and he no longer makes even the occasional attempts to arouse me which he probably felt obliged to do at first. I jokingly ask him if he will take care of me in my dotage and he insists he will. I think he means it, but who knows what the future will bring in this deeply troubled world. For now I just like the feeling that I have helped him out in significant ways without any sexual quid pro quo demanded or wanted. It feels good, very good actually, probably the most satisfying thing I have ever done in Thailand. Gorblimey, who would have thought it?

arsenal
December 22nd, 2021, 11:05
"if little or no rapport with the boy has been established. Then it just feels like unadorned lust, brutish and ultimately coarsening."

Yes. It's the rapport you can have with the boy where Thailand is in a premier league of it's own. When we get back to my hotel room I always lie on the bed with the boy lying across me perpendicular while we smoke a cigarette and get to know each other..It's a pleasant way to begin proceedings and tells the boy the style of the off is more personal, casual and hopefully fun than perhaps he's used to. I also think it helps that he knows what I want from him and how much he'll get paid, all matters being discussed prior to offing him. Every off no matter how late ends with me dropping the boy off wherever he wants to go in the greater Pattaya area and a nice kiss goodbye.
FIMP.

StevieWonders
December 22nd, 2021, 11:31
A fabulous treasure trove for the new member/ researcher @ChrisAndHisKind

Dodger
December 22nd, 2021, 12:53
snotface,

What you just wrote is the most thoroughly enjoyable and thought provoking story I've ever read on this or any other forum in the past 20 years.

It's not that I related with SOME of the experiences you described - I related with ALL of them. Your ability to describe your thoughts and emotions so clearly - and with such humility, is very refreshing to say the least..

I'll read your story again, and then challenge myself to see if I can be as honest with myself - as you are with yourself.

Thank you.

a447
December 22nd, 2021, 16:47
Post of the year.

As has been stated here before, you have a wonderful way with words. You write with clarity and honesty.

I can also relate to a lot of what you wrote. However, although I have been seeing the same 2 guys over many years - 1 in Pattaya and the other in Bangkok - we have never been in love with each other, just friends, and so we have avoided the dreaded jealousy issues you have mentioned here.

You have shown that there is more than one way to relate to a Thai bar boy. Some of us want more than just a fuck-em and leave-em "relationship".

Oliver2
December 22nd, 2021, 20:19
Thanks, guys.

I am tempted to discuss the complexities, ambiguities, frustrations and joys of my nearly eighteen years with P....assuming "with" is the appropriate term to use when describing a long-distance relationship.

But I won't; except to say that it is hardly surprising that we find cross- cultural, age- differentiated and limited physical contact-based friendships almost impossible to justify, let alone explain, to outsiders. Add to that issues relating to class, language, religion and economic differences and we are left with something indefinable. At least for me.

All I can say is that the tribulations, fears, worries, disappointments and (of course) financial cost, have all been worth it for me.

a447
December 22nd, 2021, 21:20
Oliver, I have those issues, too.

But having been brought up in an Asian country I have a slight advantage when it comes to relating to the guys.

Although there are far more differences than similarities between Japan and Thailand, they share a common Asian outlook and, dare I say, temperament and attitude towards things. I find it all so very familiar. It's a feeling that I can't put into words. It's a kind of unspoken connection between us.

The guys over the years have often commented that although I am obviously a farang, they get a sort of Asian vibe from me. They often explain it by saying that I "understand" them.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels the power difference caused largely by the wide discrepancy in wealth. At times I feel a bit guilty about that and tend to over-compensate when it comes to spending (sharing) my money.

The various differences you refer to make life very interesting. Wouldn't it be boring if we were all the same.

Nirish guy
December 22nd, 2021, 23:02
I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels the power difference caused largely by the wide discrepancy in wealth. At times I feel a bit guilty about that and tend to over-compensate when it comes to spending (sharing) my money.

If you find that burden starting to weigh you down TOO much then please, just contact me and I can send you my bank digits as Id hate to think of you sitting there suffering with your wealth while I struggle here in the UK on the merge pittance we have to accept here as our lot ! A few hundred K deposited into my account would I'm sure make you feel MUCH better - and I guarantee it would certainly help to cheer ME up too ! :-)

maump
December 23rd, 2021, 06:29
Thank you so much for this extremely well written brief of your time in Thailand. I understand and feel you. I am a co-dependent enabler and I am scared to actually retire to thailand... I already support several Thai "friends" I met years ago (and a couple Filipinos). I develop feelings toward vulnerable men very easily.

maybe I should stay in my cold barren life in USA.

maump
December 23rd, 2021, 06:31
can you elaborate on this? there is a short twitter account @ChrisAndHisKind....

maump
December 23rd, 2021, 06:32
A fabulous treasure trove for the new member/ researcher @ChrisAndHisKind

can you elaborate on this?

Ruthrieston
December 23rd, 2021, 08:47
Thank you Snotface for taking the time to write such a personal story of your life in Thailand. Stay safe and happy, as I hope to do for a few more years yet, in the Land of Smiles.

Dodger
December 23rd, 2021, 14:14
......I have had sex with several hundred boys in my time (a modest tally by the standards of some) and I don't regret it at all, though I sometimes feel I should have moved on by now.

I kept returning to Thailand for the same reason you did "The Boys"...lost count as to how many boys I've been with...3 long-term relationships in the mix... 2 marriages...more nights out-on-the-town than a dozen drunken sailors on a 18 year shore leave...with a treasure trove of memories and very few regrets. Living the Dream.

I semi-retired at age 42, and started thinking about cultivating a different lifestyle when fully retired for the reasons you mentioned. I met my current partner 5 years prior to retirement and the new lifestyle I wanted just starting forming all on its own.

He was the first boy I hooked up with that wasn't a working boy and it's been 8 of the best years of my life. My previous relationships were fueled solely by lust/sexual obsession, and all suffered the same painful, or at least uncomfortable endings. As you eluded to, the odds of having a lasting relationship with a bar boy are slim to none unless you're paying for it.

Contrary to what some believe, there are younger Thai guys who want nothing more than to partner with older men (especially from the west). Some actually prefer having sex with older men....as well as benefit from the stability an older and more experienced man can offer. The Thais personalities and interests are as varied as the leaves on the trees – and there’s someone out there for everyone if you don't allow previous failures to get in your way.

I think it’s fair to say that my partner and I truly like each other which is really a key ingredient. As different as we are in our ages, cultural backgrounds, upbringings, etc., we’re extremely compatible in the areas that count most.

He’s a textbook Zen Buddhist, prefers quiet surroundings…extremely focused on task (fashion designer)…appreciates the moment…and puts a higher priority on things involving nature and simplicity in general.

I lost interest in going to the bars well before this pandemic started and have no interest whatsoever in playing “boy games” any more. There really is so much more to life…especially here. Lust? Love? Hell, I don’t know. We just do what feels good and don’t think about anything else…it’s a Zen thing…LOL.

Thailand truly is an amazing place.

Manforallseasons
December 23rd, 2021, 21:18
https://youtu.be/B5-8_1uCzR8

francois
December 23rd, 2021, 21:29
Thailand truly is an amazing place.

Correction, Thailand truly was an amazing place.

StevieWonders
December 24th, 2021, 02:46
Correction, Thailand truly was an amazing place.Indeed - how often can we observe our successors, the 40- 50- and 60-year olds who are becoming tomorrow’s regular sex tourists arriving year after year and eventually blossoming as retiree sexpats?

neddy3
December 24th, 2021, 05:24
Well done, snotface. Another wonderful contribution to this forum.

I admire the way that you can entertainingly write with such openness and honesty.

mr giggles
December 24th, 2021, 08:11
......3 long-term relationships in the mix... 2 marriages...more nights out-on-the-town than a dozen drunken sailors on a 18 year shore leave...with a treasure trove of memories and very few regrets. Living the Dream.

I semi-retired at age 42, and started thinking about cultivating a different lifestyle when fully retired for the reasons you mentioned. I met my current partner 5 years .



CURRENT being the operative word.......living the dream indeed!

Who's taking bets?

Dodger
December 24th, 2021, 08:14
Correction, Thailand truly was an amazing place.

Pandemic, or no pandemic, I find life in Thailand just as amazing now as I did when I first discovered it.

Home is what you make it!

francois
December 24th, 2021, 08:46
Pandemic, or no pandemic, I find life in Thailand just as amazing now as I did when I first discovered it.

Home is what you make it!

Wish I could say the same but life for me in Thailand is a far cry from what it once was.

arsenal
December 24th, 2021, 09:42
Dodger rides a motorbike. Francois doesn't. Nuff said.

Manforallseasons
December 24th, 2021, 09:52
Dodger rides a motorbike. Francois doesn't. Nuff said.

Huh?

Dodger
December 24th, 2021, 09:54
Wish I could say the same but life for me in Thailand is a far cry from what it once was.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Maybe arsenal's on to something...you just need a motorbike...LOL...just kidding.

neddy3
December 24th, 2021, 11:48
Pandemic, or no pandemic, I find life in Thailand just as amazing now as I did when I first discovered it.

While I concur that some digging might still produce some amazement, I will wager that amazement is in much shorter supply than was the case a few years back!

Dodger
December 24th, 2021, 12:45
While I concur that some digging might still produce some amazement, I will wager that amazement is in much shorter supply than was the case a few years back!

No argument there.

a447
December 24th, 2021, 13:28
We just have to adapt to the new reality and hope for better times ahead. No good looking back over your shoulder at what was.

The new situation is easier to adapt to if you have a boyfriend or guys you meet on a regular basis. In that case, it probably doesn't really matter whether or not the bars are open.

Manforallseasons
December 24th, 2021, 14:07
Pandemic, or no pandemic, I find life in Thailand just as amazing now as I did when I first discovered it.

Home is what you make it!

You have to admire Dodger he is the ultimate optimist, some say when avoiding a lump of dog shit on the sidewalk good God, Dodger says did you ever see a lump of shit like that?

a447
December 24th, 2021, 14:45
You have to admire Dodger he is the ultimate optimist, some say when avoiding a lump of dog shit on the sidewalk good God, Dodger says did you ever see a lump of shit like that?

Lol.

Optomists are happier people who suffer less from stress and ultimately live longer.

Nothing wrong with that!

goji
December 24th, 2021, 15:24
We need some optimism to balance things out here.

As for Amazing Thailand, well yes, Thailand as a whole is still amazing, in my opinion. However, parts of it, such as the gay Gogo bars are no longer in that category.

dinagam
December 24th, 2021, 15:37
Dodger rides a motorbike. Francois doesn't. Nuff said.

Who might he be?
Dodger or arsenal?

bkkguy
December 24th, 2021, 19:02
Who might he be?
Dodger or arsenal?

one would hope that neither of them would be guilty of the fashion faux pas of socks with slip-on sandals!

arsenal
December 24th, 2021, 19:49
"one would hope that neither of them would be guilty of the fashion faux pas of socks with slip-on sandals!"

Exactly. Plus the 'gentleman' au natural is riding pillion whereas The Dodge and arsenal both pilot the vehicle so it's more likely to be a non bike rider. Francois or Christian perhaps..

francois
December 24th, 2021, 23:28
Here is a lengthy article I came across while researching Sunee Plaza which gives a good description of life some 10 years ago. I am only including the first paragraph with a link to the remaining, wonderful sleaze.Those were the days; worth reading.

THURSDAY, JUNE 4, 2009
Sunee Plaza, Pattaya, Thailand
PATTAYA, THAILAND has an air of seduction to it. The reputation is one of sin and sleaze, and I went there to find out if that was true. What I found amazed me. Plenty of both the qualities I’ve just mentioned, but a great deal of fun, frivolity, good humour and just plain good times. If I were designing paradise, I’d look little further than here for my model. The boys will welcome you as they did me. I’d like to take you with me on just one evening’s tour.

“Come inside sir new boy sexy boy big cock.”


http://gaytravelorg.blogspot.com/2009/06/sunee-plaza-pattaya-thailand.html

Francois no longer drives motorbikes, but when he did, he always wore a helmet.

latintopxxx
December 25th, 2021, 01:25
art...definiely art....

Dodger
December 25th, 2021, 08:22
You have to admire Dodger he is the ultimate optimist, some say when avoiding a lump of dog shit on the sidewalk good God, Dodger says did you ever see a lump of shit like that?

I have little patience for people who are overly optimistic, and even less patience for those who are overly pessimistic. The former being people who have a hard time grasping reality – and the latter being people who can’t handle reality.

MikaQ5
December 28th, 2021, 23:36
What a great post !!
I can relate to much of it ( inc the "in flagrante delicto" part ,twice)

latintopxxx
December 29th, 2021, 01:59
....have always had totally open relationships...so no issues with simultaneous multiple partners...nonsense really...love and lust are not the same thing....vast majority of my well proiportioned lightly muscled bubbled butted sex partners are good for one thing only...and its not their poersonality or intellect....

arsenal
December 29th, 2021, 10:46
"Sunee Plaza, Pattaya, Thailand
PATTAYA, THAILAND has an air of seduction to it. The reputation is one of sin and sleaze, and I went there to find out if that was true. What I found amazed me. Plenty of both the qualities I’ve just mentioned, but a great deal of fun, frivolity, good humour and just plain good times. If I were designing paradise, I’d look little further than here for my model. The boys will welcome you as they did me. I’d like to take you with me on just one evening’s tour.

“Come inside sir new boy sexy boy big cock.”"

There were maybe 40 go go bars and dotted around the city too. Sunee, Boyztown, Soi Yensabbai, Soi VC, Jontien Complex, Walking Street, Day Night and even one off of Soi Bukaeow. Most of them have gone now and if UNESCO had an ounce of backbone they'd list the few remaining ones as World Heritage sites. Out of the ashes of this assault on fun we only need a few weary of life citizens to bite the bullet and head east for a new life to maybe get it into double figures.

a447
December 29th, 2021, 13:01
The boys will welcome you as they did me.

One of the best features of Thailand as a gay destination is the guys' friendly welcome. We are always greeted with a smile.

No attitude, no judging, few inhibitions - just out to have a good time and make a buck. Everything is so matter-of-fact and relaxing.

And of course, we can have fun in a very safe environment with no fear of being harassed or mugged.

It doesn't get any better than that.

Oliver2
December 29th, 2021, 13:46
When I first accepted my sexuality in my mid-forties, I travelled to many paces recommended to me as being full of willing young guys, eager to make my acquaintance...for money.

I tried a number of European cities, of which only Amsterdam provided much to my satisfaction. At a high price, too. I went to both North and sub-Saharan Africa and had some interesting experiences, some of which I now realise were dangerous.

Thailand was the post- coital recommendation by a cute employee of Blue Boy in Amsterdam, while we were using -up fifteen minutes of our rigidly- timed one hour..

There is, as others have said, , no comparison with anywhere else I know, not just because Thai guys are often deliciously cute, many keeping their looks into maturity, but because they are brought-up to charm and to respect older men. And Thailand is an environment which has never seemed threatening nor even disapproving. And that includes non-tourist parts of the country where we have stayed together.

StevieWonders
December 29th, 2021, 14:25
And Thailand is an environment which has never seemed threatening nor even disapproving. And that includes non-tourist parts of the country where we have stayed together.Just because the Thais don’t openly confront you doesn’t mean they don’t privately despise you - or haven’t you understood the true meaning of the Thai smile?

Oliver2
December 29th, 2021, 16:35
I don't know if they despised me, any more than someone can claim confidently that the guys I have met are insincere. What's the solution to this conundrum inherent in the human condition? Not to trust, like or love anyone? Is that the path to happiness?

Until I fell in love, I accepted what was offered at face value. And had a great time. I suppose I could have told all those charming guys to get lost.....they would have missed out on their payment and I would have missed out on my harmless fun, something for which I'd waited and denied myself since puberty.

Those nine years of butterflying in Thailand prepared me for the greater happiness that was to follow, providing the insights and understanding that led me to the love of my life.

Dodger
December 29th, 2021, 17:12
I don't know if they despised me, any more than someone can claim confidently that the guys I have met are insincere. What's the solution to this conundrum inherent in the human condition? Not to trust, like or love anyone? Is that the path to happiness?

There's not a doubt in my mind that the Thais you've interacted with are being totally sincere about their feelings for you. You're a jai dee person...they know it, and appreciate it, and enjoying relationships like this is what makes the world go around.

Thais have an amazing ability to see inside a person (it's a karma thing).

Conversely, I've seen a few pretty undesirable farang over the years who are better off not trusting...liking...loving any of them, because they're simply not respected by the Thais. All they will get are Fake Smiles...it's inevitable.

Oliver2
December 29th, 2021, 17:29
If you care about someone, even for a short period, it is more likely that he will reciprocate and care for you. By the way, an offed mb will probably perform his duties better, too.

I know some falangs are cynical about relationships with ex-mbs; often they have been badly hurt, even betrayed, and decide never again to trust a Thai. Very sad for them; I suppose I've been lucky.

But I also know a couple of Thais- friends of P- who were badly hurt and betrayed by falangs whom they loved deeply and depended upon... often because they lost their looks when the days of twink-hood ended. They were "traded-in" like an old car for a newer model.

It is sometimes instructive to look at the Pattaya scene from the Thai perspective. It's not just we falangs who have doubts, fears, insecurities. And for Thais, a busted relationship has enormous financial as well emotional implications.

maump
December 29th, 2021, 20:40
one would hope that neither of them would be guilty of the fashion faux pas of socks with slip-on sandals!

Very common in the states now..... disgusting.

StevieWonders
December 30th, 2021, 03:09
Very common in the states now..... disgusting.I quite agree - almost as bad as sex videos where they don’t remove their socks

StevieWonders
December 30th, 2021, 03:20
I don't know if they despised me, any more than someone can claim confidently that the guys I have met are insincere. What's the solution to this conundrum inherent in the human condition? Not to trust, like or love anyone? Is that the path to happiness?

Until I fell in love, I accepted what was offered at face value. And had a great time. I suppose I could have told all those charming guys to get lost.....they would have missed out on their payment and I would have missed out on my harmless fun, something for which I'd waited and denied myself since puberty.

Those nine years of butterflying in Thailand prepared me for the greater happiness that was to follow, providing the insights and understanding that led me to the love of my life.Keep wearing the rose coloured spectacles; they suit you. Next stop the 2022 Gay Pride Palestine March in Ramallah?

Oliver2
December 30th, 2021, 13:46
Something of a cliché nowadays, but here goes. Oscar Wilde's definition of a cynic.

"A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."

Alas, 'tis true; I really do believe in the essential decency of the people I have met and loved, wherever they live and whatever their religion.

StevieWonders
December 30th, 2021, 14:03
Something of a cliché nowadays, but here goes. Oscar Wilde's definition of a cynic.

"A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."

Alas, 'tis true; I really do believe in the essential decency of the people I have met and loved, wherever they live and whatever their religion.It’s definitely a cliché quoted by the intellectually lazy. The line comes from Lady Windermere’s Fan, a play about the value of a good reputation, where two businessmen are discussing value vs. price. The full context is Darlington responding to the question “What is a cynic?”

Lord Darlington: A man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing.
Cecil Graham: And a sentimentalist, my dear Darlington, is a man who sees an absurd value in everything and doesn’t know the market price of any single thing.”

Whether that is what Wilde himself believed depends on whether you believe (mistakenly) that a playwright or a novelist believes everything he writes. Wilde uses the line as a dramatic device to underline the question the play is asking. Equally Lord Darlington is making the very common mistake of confusing a cynic with a sceptic

dinagam
December 30th, 2021, 15:00
Now who's the cynical sceptic, and who's the real sceptical cynic?

StevieWonders
December 30th, 2021, 16:07
Now who's the cynical sceptic, and who's the real sceptical cynic?
* A cynic does not put his true age on his Grindr profile because he believes no 20 year old can work out the true age of anyone over 40
* A sceptic does not put his true age on his Grindr profile because he believes that as he has to pay for sex anyway so it should not damn well matter