What would you do for a booster?

[vnman]

While some countries are still struggling to get their population inoculated, others are far into their "booster shot" scheme. For some, it is as easy as walking into a pharmacy. Not so much for the Netherlands. Our original vaccination efforts started slow but picked up speed very fast and we had one of the highest vaccination rates in Europe at a certain point. As if we had not learned anything when other countries started with boosters, the Netherlands did nothing and now we are behind the curve again.

After the weekend I'm going on a long trip, which means that I would not get a booster shot until I come back to my country, and this will probably be after two months. Of course, I am double vaccinated 6 months ago and this should still over protecting, but it still didn't feel quite right.

Friday morning I woke up around 04:00 AM and read some local digital news. One story read, "Get Your Booster in Another Country," in which they explained, it would be possible to get a booster. The usual suspects like the USA, UAE, etc.. were listed but to my surprise, they also listed one city in Germany. Aachen. It was only for Dutch people that work in Germany, live in border towns or often visit Germany for relatives and friends. Well, that is me, but my border town is only a 4-hour drive away from Aachen so I wasn't sure if I would qualify. Still, if there was a chance, I would take it, and about 20 minutes later I started my car and went on my way. I hate driving at night but the Autobahn was not busy... yet. I must admit that I was nervous too and had no idea where to go in the city. I asked a German friend of mine to find me an address and send it to my phone.

After an exhausting drive, I arrived in Aachen and with directions from my friend, I could drive directly to the correct location. Inside there were a few people waiting in line.

11952

We all had to fill out some papers before we entered. I was tired, my body was aching and even more nervous than before. After ten minutes I could go inside, sit at a desk where a staff member across from me checked the papers I had filled out. Everything seemed to be fine. He asked for my proof of previous vaccinations. My last vaccination was on the 5th of June, and they would only vaccinate people who had their last vaccination before the 10th of July. So far so good. Then he asked for my ID, which is obviously not German. I showed my Dutch ID but he said nothing, gave me back all the documents and pointed to the next desk.

At the next desk, a girl entered my information into a computer and told me that I would be getting the Moderna vaccine today. Great! She told me to go to her colleague who in turn directed me to a doctor. The doctor checked my papers and asked me if I had any problems with the people at the front because I am dutch. I said no, and she acted pleased. She said that there had been some confusion but she was happy that it had been solved.

Time to get my shot! Just before she wanted to give me the shot, I remembered that she hadn't asked me anything about previous vaccinations. The papers that I had to fill out coming in had a question "have you been vaccinated in the last 14 days," which I answered with yes. I quickly asked her if the Yellow fever vaccination I received a day prior was not an issue. This stopped her in her tracks. She didn't know and said that she would look it up. Ugh, obviously, it was the right thing to ask, but it would still sting a lot if she would decide not to give me the Jab. Luckily, she didn't find a problem and I got the shot. Phew!

After a 15 minute wait, I went back to my car and started the journey back home. When I got 5 km out of the city, I missed an exit on the autobahn and somehow managed to miss the second too. Taking the third exit, I expected a U-turn back where I came from. However, the navigation system sent me through some local roads and it took a while before I got back on the Autobahn. My windows were dirty and I couldn't clean them because there was no more cleaning liquid. I decided to fill it up at the first truck stop and at that time I noticed that I didn't have my little yellow vaccination book. Ugh, I remembered putting it on the seat next to me in the "recovery room," where everybody has to wait for 15 minutes after the shot.

It was a 30 km drive back but that was still pretty lucky. The security guard had found my booklet and gave it back to me. I could finally drive back home where I arrived around 4 pm, broken. I must say that I felt horrible. All my muscles were aching and I felt fatigued and nauseated. It could have been the Moderna or the Yellow Fever shot. Either way, I have been in bed ever since.

11953

Thank you, Germany!

[Nirish guy]

Im actually going in about 30 minutes to get my own (first) booster shot.

Personally Im not so much worried about any possible side effects ( although I've heard plently of people saying they felt more shit after the mixed booster than they did after their the first two shots so watch this space) but me, I'm more concerned as my shot is part of a whole community drive thing to get a lot of people injected at once hence I have to attend my local Baptist church to get it !

So yeah it's not so much any side effects I'm concerned about but more the chances of my feet burning when I walk over the church door onto consecrated ground again for the first time in years ! :-)

Oh well if the church is full of men who are straight laced, born again, staunch baptist types that mean then for sure there'll to be at least two or three of them there who will secretly quite happily suck me off behind the baptismal font no doubt if they think they can do it without getting caught !, Every cloud has a silver lining eh ! :))

[Nirish guy]

Just as an update to my above and in case anyone is thinking / debating "should they get their booster or not?" - I had pzifer main jabs with a moderna booster yesterday with zero side effects or issues ( maybe a 5% sore arm where they injected it this morning, but that I'm guessing is just more to do with injecting ANYTHING into a muscle and is fairly standard. Either way, no issues, in an out in 2 minutes so if you're debating it - go get it done.

[christianpfc]

I don't believe in Covid (i.e. I don't believe Covid is a threat for me, my friends and family in particular or for survival of mankind in general) and I do only the absolutely necessary, i.e. get vaccinated once because not being vaccinated would bring severe disadvantages in general life.

[francois]

Over 5 million people have died from Covid, and you don't believe it is a threat?

[goji]

Over 5 million people have died from Covid, and you don't believe it is a threat?

Out of 8 billion people, 5 million is quite small compared with the numbers dying from other causes in the last 2 years. In the UK, from April-October, flu or pneumonia appeared on more death certificates than COVID.

COVID makes a very minor change to our probability of death and might reduce our life expectancy back to something like 2015 levels. Which is far better than 20 years ago. Life expectancy is still way better than living at almost any other point in history.

The problem is not covid, but the irrational response. Governments should abolish all restrictions and allow people to make their own decisions.

[cdnmatt]

Should be eligible for my booster in about 6 - 8 weeks, at least according to the government's plan. Just waiting for the e-mail telling me to make an e-mail appointment.

Not sure how much use it is anymore though. These mRNA vaccines aren't even for Covid, but for the spike protein only. Sounds like that new Moni variant changed the spike protein quite a bit, hence the vaccines may be useless now.

[Nirish guy]

What part of “exponential growth” do people not understand !??

[francois]

Out of 8 billion people, 5 million is quite small compared with the numbers dying from other causes in the last 2 years. In the UK, from April-October, flu or pneumonia appeared on more death certificates than COVID.

COVID makes a very minor change to our probability of death and might reduce our life expectancy back to something like 2015 levels. Which is far better than 20 years ago. Life expectancy is still way better than living at almost any other point in history.

The problem is not covid, but the irrational response. Governments should abolish all restrictions and allow people to make their own decisions.

goji, have you been vaccinated against Covid? If so, was it to protect yourself or just to travel to Thailand? In the US, there are locations where hospitals are at capacity treating, mostly unvaccinated patients for Covid, while other critically ill patients have to wait for a bed. Here is a recent article, in the NY Times by an ER doctor detailing how unvaccinated people are filling hospital beds.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/opinion/covid-michigan-surge.html?searchResultPosition=1

[StevieWonders]

What part of “exponential growth” do people not understand !??Even exponential growth has been shown in the Delta variant to have a natural limit - from trough to peak in outbreak after outbreak it was roughly 9 weeks. Thailand was no different

[goji]

goji, have you been vaccinated against Covid? If so, was it to protect yourself
I was vaccinated at the first possible opportunity and took a booster as soon as possible. I recommend everyone else does so too.
What I don't agree with is continuing restrictions where people have had the chance of a vaccine already.

[vnman]

I was vaccinated at the first possible opportunity and took a booster as soon as possible. I recommend everyone else does so too.
What I don't agree with is continuing restrictions where people have had the chance of a vaccine already.

Too many people are suffering because of those who refuse to get vaccinated. The same people who start crying and say how sorry they are that they didn't get vaccinated when they ended up in the hospital.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211029-why-mandatory-vaccination-is-nothing-new

[StevieWonders]

One thing they're not is a "vaccine" in the sense that rubella, mumps or smallpox vaccines are vaccines. What they are is "risk minimisers" - they reduce the risk of catching COVID, and/or minimise the risk of serious illness, hospitalisation or even death. For all the nut jobs who spray the Internet with their opinions it seems this distinction is too difficult to grasp. The other thing many people either can't bear or have never understood is that they are all still approved only for "emergency" use - we're all in a worldwide Phase 3 drug trial

That said I'm happy to be double vaccinated already (Astrazeneca - British is best!) and I'm looking forward to my Pfizer or other mRNA booster in the new year

[cdnmatt]

One thing they're not is a "vaccine" in the sense that rubella, mumps or smallpox vaccines are vaccines. What they are is "risk minimisers" - they reduce the risk of catching COVID, and/or minimise the risk of serious illness, hospitalisation or even death.

True enough. We've being trying to find a vaccine / cure for influenza for 2600 years. Haven't found one yet, even with these new vaccines.


that they are all still approved only for "emergency" use - we're all in a worldwide Phase 3 drug trial

Not true. The FDA in the US granted full use months ago.

That said I'

[StevieWonders]

The FDA in the US granted full use months ago. Can you provide the official source for this full authorisation? AFAIK only Pfizer is fully authorised in the US so most of us are still in a Phase 3 trial

[cdnmatt]

Can you provide the official source for this full authorisation? AFAIK only Pfizer is fully authorised in the US so most of us are still in a Phase 3 trial

Yes, I said FDA in the US.

[goji]

Fake news is surely off topic ?

[Jellybean]

Fake news is surely off topic ?

Some off topic posts have been moved within the Everything Else forum and given the new title, Do these reports have any scientific basis or are they fake news?

To contribute to the new topic, please click on the following link:
https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?22533-Do-these-reports-have-any-scientific-basis-or-are-they-fake-news

[christianpfc]

Over 5 million people have died from Covid, and you don't believe it is a threat?
Tragic for the individual, but insignificant in the grand scheme.

[Nirish guy]

Tragic for the individual, but insignificant in the grand scheme.

So, leaving aside the coldness of your "insignificant" view, where then IS your number I wonder ont the "grand scheme of things" when taking possible "exponential growth" into the equation ? 10 Million, 20 Million? Do you actually even have a number or do you feel it's irrelevant how people die just as long as it doesn't effect you too much perhaps ?

[vnman]

Tragic for the individual, but insignificant in the grand scheme.

I think you are missing the point. When people (with cancer for example) have their procedures cancelled because there is no more capacity in the hospitals, it becomes a problem for many...if you believe in COVID or not.

[cdnmatt]

Tragic for the individual, but insignificant in the grand scheme.

Is this kind of like the Jews who died in the Holocaust, or something? Tragic for the individual, but insignificant in the grand scheme?

How far back are we going with this grand scheme thing? Back to the beginning of the industrial revolution, homosapiens, the solar system, or?

[dinagam]

What Holocaust?
Nothing compares to the annihilation of native populations around the world brought about by the European colonisers in the name of the evil elements of their false religion.
That's the real grand scheme of things.
I'm sure there are more people who die from the consumption of alcohol and its deleterious effects on the drinkers and people around them than from the current pandemic.

[francois]

What Holocaust?

I'm sure there are more people who die from the consumption of alcohol and its deleterious effects on the drinkers and people around them than from the current pandemic.

About the same, 3 million/year deaths for alcohol and covid.

[arsenal]

"What Holocaust?
Nothing compares to the annihilation of native populations around the world brought about by the European colonisers in the name of the evil elements of their false religion."

They're not native, they just got there first and even that's a 'probably'.

[cdnmatt]

What Holocaust?
Nothing compares to the annihilation of native populations around the world brought about by the European colonisers in the name of the evil elements of their false religion.
That's the real grand scheme of things.
I'm sure there are more people who die from the consumption of alcohol and its deleterious effects on the drinkers and people around them than from the current pandemic.

So now we've gotten to the point that the WWII Holocaust isn't a big deal, because there were other historical events that claimed more lives?

Cool.

[latintopxxx]

what a laugh...as if the natives were holding hands singing kumbaya my lord before the evil white man arrives and taught them to sin.....as if the zulus didint wipe out their neighbours...the aztecs didint pull hearts out of living people....as if attila was white...

[DoubleDutch]

The problem is not covid, but the irrational response. Governments should abolish all restrictions and allow people to make their own decisions.


Speaking of irrational response by governments:

16 Dec 2021.

" France has banned tourists from Britain due to the spread of the Omicron variant in the UK, adding only those with a "compelling reason" to travel will be allowed entry.

From midnight on Friday, people arriving from Britain will be required to show a negative Covid test that is less than 24 hours old, to test again upon arrival and self-isolate for seven days, although that can be reduced to 48 hours if the second test is negative."

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-12-16/covid-france-to-restrict-travel-from-uk-amid-omicron-surge

[gerefan2]

Speaking of irrational response by governments:

16 Dec 2021.

" France has banned tourists from Britain due to the spread of the Omicron variant in the UK, adding only those with a "compelling reason" to travel will be allowed entry.]


Cases of Covid have risen in the UK at an alarming rate this week. The average number of cases has been about 50,000 per day.
The day before yesterday there were 78339 cases and yesterday thre were 88,376. Cases are expected to reach 100,000 per day very shortly.
I was chatting to a friend the other afternoon for a couple of hours and when he got home he had developed a sore throat and headaches. He tested himself twice and failed the test.. he has since been confirmed infected.
People are really concerned and cancelling Social meetings themselves.
Very unusual for the UK which was beginning to just live with this.

[StevieWonders]

Cases of Covid have risen in the UK at an alarming rate this week. The average number of cases has been about 50,000 per day.
The day before yesterday there were 78339 cases and yesterday thre were 88,376. Cases are expected to reach 100,000 per day very shortly.
I was chatting to a friend the other afternoon for a couple of hours and when he got home he had developed a sore throat and headaches. He tested himself twice and failed the test.. he has since been confirmed infected.
People are really concerned and cancelling Social meetings themselves.
Very unusual for the UK which was beginning to just live with this.
I was particularly pleased to read in The Independent that someone claiming to be the stepson of the only Omicron-related death reported in the UK described his father as an “old man given to conspiracy theories” and (therefore) unvaccinated - what I like to categorise as a “lifestyle choice death”

[Nirish guy]

Cases of Covid have risen in the UK at an alarming rate this week. People are really concerned and cancelling Social meetings themselves.


Yep just as you say it "feels' different this time round as many on social media in the UK now are reporting exactly the same wave of infection washing over them and their friends at an alarming and shocking rate in comparison to the Delta variant. I guess we shouldn't be surprised as that IS exactly what we were told was going to happen, but to see it taking effect so fast is I think what's surprising.

I think people have ( had) perhaps become to normalised with regards to Delta and after being doubled jabbed had fallen into the belief "it wont happen to us now" whereas it seems Omicron now has very different ideas.

My guy and I are meant to be heading out out in Belfast this weekend with a crowd of friends both to a house party and a full on christmas bar crawl weekend and I have to say I'm starting to wonder if that's such a good idea now.

My only saving grace is that where I live is about 2 weeks behind the rest of the UK infection wise so I think i'm going to risk it as one last hurrah for 2021 / Christmas as the way things are shaping up I can see another lockdown, either official or by another name coming in early January (if not before).

in fact just on that I see this morning that both Wales and Southern Ireland governments are meeting to discuss various new measures, they've actually already going ahead in some parts to close nightclubs and theatres again and Ireland are meeting today to discuss closing all bars from 5pm this Monday - the week BEFORE Christmas in ireland ! so that tells you where things are going perhaps here now too :-(

Im guessing all governments would happily have closed everything but decided to give us all the christmas week for a good blow out but even they now are realising that they may not even have the wiggle room to do that re causing infection spread now hence the discussions for more urgent closures.

So all you guys in Thailand talking about bar reopenings and booking flights and what not should perhaps take note of all that and enjoy your time there while you can too as just like before as whatever we're getting now in the UK Thailand is sure to be get shortly again behind us and if Omicron is spreading as many are reporting the numbers infected ( albeit not dying this time hopefully) could still be eye watering :-(

[goji]

People are really concerned and cancelling Social meetings themselves.

I think this is how the UK government intended it to be when relaxing restrictions. People now make their own decisions.

As for Thailand, well Omicron is either here already or soon will be.
In the meantime, two responses seem appropriate:
1 Get a booster. Everyone who has had Astra Zeneca can get an mRNA booster 3 months after the second dose, after revisions to Thai policy. People who had mRNA vaccines have to wait 6 months. Having read a UK PHE report on vaccine performance back in September, this policy makes perfect sense.

2 Enjoy the nightlife when it is open. Even Boyztown appears to have opened today.

[Nirish guy]

I think this is how the UK government intended it to be when relaxing restrictions. People now make their own decisions..

Re delta I think you're right, but their latest messaging about "well we're not closing the bars but perhaps think do you REALLY need to go out and if you go out will it ruin your christmas" is a bit of a cop out as in effect they're (scaring ) suggesting to the Country that whilst the pubs and restaurants are open is it REALLY a good idea to be visiting them !?

The knock on effect of that of course is that half the places are not full and many / all restaurants are reporting massive cancellations of bookings and no shows, both by individuals and more importantly large groups of works christmas parties, leaving businesses that were already on their knees how in an even more precarious position than before !

But all while the government haven't implemented any form of business or furlough support for those businesses again !! So they're playing a cute game in my view - "oh we didn't tell you you have to close so we're not liable" but at the same time doing everything they can to suggest people dont visit those establishments ! I

t'll be interesting just how long they can keep that game up until people / businesses bite back. Also interesting to see that Boris's party lost a by election seat that they had held for over 200 year last night ( so surprisingly after some of their shennanigans of late perhaps) so events like that just might might start to eat into policy decisions too shortly perhaps.

[arsenal]

Chris Whitty, my go to bod for all things virus related days this could go on for another 18 months but each 6 months will be better than the last. I think he's probably right. In my head I've got 4 years in total for this to come to a pretty final end.

[DoubleDutch]

Yep just as you say it "feels' different this time round as many on social media in the UK now are reporting exactly the same wave of infection washing over them and their friends at an alarming and shocking rate in comparison to the Delta variant. I guess we shouldn't be surprised as that IS exactly what we were told was going to happen, but to see it taking effect so fast is I think what's surprising.




Wait a second, are you guys not vaccinated? Are you not getting booster shots? Because if you are vaccinated, what has changed? I tell you what has changed, recent news coverage. it is media's business, their livelihood, their sole purpose to keep you glued to the news, terrified 24/7. And you fall for it, every time. Have we learned nothing in past 2 years?

Media driven fear and our politicians freaking out, rushing into new restrictions, border closures, in order to make it seem they are doing something, that is the only thing that has changed. You guys still refuse to accept that we will all have this virus at one point, very likely had it already and not even knowing, 99 percent of us not even realizing we had it, that's how 'dangerous' it is. Don't be obese to the point of developing diabetes, and chances are overwhelming that you'll be fine. But you are eagerly swallowing this message of fear, as if is spring 2020 again, back when we did not know anything about the virus, and had no vaccines.

What exactly has happened with new strain? Massive deaths in hospitals, otherwise healthy, not obese people dropping like flies? I must have missed it, I have somehow missed news about hordes of fully vaccinated people dying. I though hospitalization rates is what matters, so why are we counting infection numbers? Infection numbers are impressive, no doubt, they are 'exploding', is the term, I believe. Feels like end of the world, except most people with positive Covid tests had no idea that they were ill at all, because guess what, they are not ill.

We act as if it's spring 2020, when we had no vaccines, death rate speculated to be up to 3 percent or even higher. We now know that if you are otherwise healthy, you won't even realize you may be Covid positive. But this new Omoronic strain has whipped people into frenzy, again. This is almost masochistic desire to feel scared. Media blitz, 24/7 bombardment of 'scary' infection numbers, and we are back to spring 2020. Fact that we are all now fully vaccinated is forgotten.

If you haven't been ill with Covid by now, and you are vaccinated, nothing has changed for you. Turn off news, go out!

[DoubleDutch]

So all you guys in Thailand talking about bar reopenings and booking flights and what not should perhaps take note of all that and enjoy your time there while you can too as just like before as whatever we're getting now in the UK Thailand is sure to be get shortly again behind us and if Omicron is spreading as many are reporting the numbers infected ( albeit not dying this time hopefully) could still be eye watering :-(



I have several choices for spending winter, stay in Estonia, fly to Mexico, Malaga Spain, Canary Isles, or spend winter in Thailand. Do you really believe there is even slightest bit of difference where I'll be?

You say we will be "getting it" in Thailand, something that you are now getting in UK. Can I ask, what is it that you are getting in UK now, besides scary "exploding" infection numbers? Are people in UK dying en masse compared to 6 months ago? Yourself, are you expecting to be hospitalized, or worse? I'm really curious what it is, that is going to hit us in Thailand?

Your "enjoy your time there while you can" is next level fearmongering, are you expecting alien attack, wiping us all out in Thailand?

The worst thing that can hit us in Thailand is border closures, typical overreaction by clueless politicians and even more clueless generals. Inconvenience, sure, but certainly not extinction level event. No one gives a fuck about Covid here, we are in more danger crossing the street .

[gerefan2]

Thank you for that post DD. I enjoyed reading it and it describes the Thai Authorities to a T. It’s only a matter of time before they strike again...as others have already implied.

Arsenal: your reference to Chris Witty saying this could go on for a further 18 months is interesting.
Today’s figure is 93045 new infections.
The number of people in the UK who have NOT had Covid is 57,214,932. (Population minus those already infected)

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Assuming a continued daily infection rate similar to today’s figure, as implied by Witty, then everyone in the UK will have had Covid within 20 months!

How likely is that?!!

[Nirish guy]

DD - I actually dont disagree with much of what you say.

But based on the little info that we all have about Omicron just now IF it turns out to be more aggressive than previous versions then that WOULD be a problem for us all once you factor its apparent faster spread rate, that's just simple maths and we can't or shouldn't just casually ignore that point ( just yet) until we know for sure what we're dealing with.

As of today when they seem to be telling us that if you're triple jabbed that you've something like an 80% chance of not getting seriously ill then thats GREAT and that's exactly the news we all hoped to hear - and is one of the reasons I myself AM heading out on the lash this weekend.

And my "enjoy your time there while you can" isn't fear mongering as you put it but more a reflection of whats' likely to happen lock down wise there just like here perhaps once the governments do their thing - as to whether that's the right thing to do or not is a whole other conversation but for now I'll happily stand by those remarks in the spirit they were made.

You do seem though to be missing the main issue in that even if vaccinated ( and a large group of people still aren't of course) the issue seems to be that if say as using totally random made up numbers that 1 million vaccinated and unvaccinated people got covid before and say even just 5% of that number needed treatment ( i.e say 50,000 people) the governments worry is that IF omnicorn IS as spreadable as it seems then that new possible number of 2, 3,4 million group of people could all pick it up almost immediately, thus leading to that same 5% / 100,000, 200,000, 300,000, 400,000 people all needing treatment NOW too and THAT WOULD overwhelm most health services in most Countries.

So I think THAT is the bigger issue that they're concerned about perhaps when issuing closure orders of bars etc until they can ACTUALLY see what they're dealing with with the new variant - and only time can tell that of course so you sort of cant blame them for being cautious.

The current view that it's 'less' aggressive could of course be EXACTLY as more people are now vaccinated, meaning those that aren't are at MUCH more risk ( personally my view there is fuck them at this stage but THAT is a whole other topic for another thread too I guess)

[Moses]

So far Sputnik Light is best buster: 4-8 times more effective against omicron in comparation with Moderna and 4 times in comparation with Pfizer

Numbers are officially announced yesterday by Gamaleya Institute https://sputnikvaccine.com/newsroom/pressreleases/sputnik-v-induces-robust-neutralizing-antibody-response-to-omicron-variant-which-is-further-strength/

[cdnmatt]

Russia has yet to release the data regarding Sputnik to allow it to be peer reviewed, so you can say whatever you wish about Sputnik, nobody outside of Russia cares. Let the scientific community review the data, then people in the international community will start taking it seriously.

[Nirish guy]

It seems the Moscow times are reporting a slightly different twist to that report though …. I’ve no idea which is correct, merely posting the article relating to it…..

Russia Claims Sputnik V ‘Robust’ Against Omicron as Independent Study Shows No Antibody Response

Russia claimed its Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine provides “robust” long-term protection against the Omicron variant Friday, contradicting the findings of an independent study which found the Russian jab produced no antibody response whatsoever to the new, highly transmissible variant.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/17/russia-claims-sputnik-v-robust-against-omicron-as-independent-study-shows-no-antibody-response-a75861

I see the institute have said they will publish their data backing up their position in 7 days, as to whether that will be data suitable to allow proper international peer review is I guess a whole other question !?

[Moses]

Russia has yet to release the data regarding Sputnik to allow it to be peer reviewed, so you can say whatever you wish about Sputnik, nobody outside of Russia cares. Let the scientific community review the data, then people in the international community will start taking it seriously.

Yeah, yeah... nobody, right...
Russia still has population, and deaths per 1 mln is lower than in USA or UK... simple...

[cdnmatt]

Yeah, yeah... nobody, right...
Russia still has population, and deaths per 1 mln is lower than in USA or UK... simple...


You're the one who keeps quoting "studies" that "prove" Sputnik is better than Pfizer and Modurna. Just telling you, until Russia allows that data to be peer reviewed by the international scientific community, nobody outside of Russia is going to care about Sputnik aside from an outlier here and there.

And considering Russia's vaccination rate, most inside of Russia don't really care about Sputnik either.

[Moses]

===============nobody outside of Russia is going to care about Sputnik aside from an outlier here and there.

72 countries uses Sputnik, so "nobody cares" is a little bit brave declaration, Matt :))) Over 100 mln doses are already used only in Argentina...

[Nirish guy]

Just out of interest Moses why is it do YOU think it is that the Russian lab ( or Government perhaps ?) who makes Sputnik WON'T release their data for international peer review ??

Maybe IS it because they fear ( KNOW) that it simply doesn't work OR is it maybe them thinking ( KNOWING ) that actually it works a LOT better than anything the West are producing ( as they are now seeming to be claiming ) and if so they think then that that might gives Russia a strategic political, economic and even military advantage over other Countries in the worldwide fight against Covid ??

Some might say that neither of the two scenarios mentioned above reflect very well on Russia though ?

So, what's your thoughts, what do you think the reason is that so far they haven't allowed any international peer review of Sputnik yet ( just out of interest ?)

[StevieWonders]

===============nobody outside of Russia is going to care about Sputnik aside from an outlier here and there.

72 countries uses Sputnik, so "nobody cares" is a little bit brave declaration, Matt :))) Over 100 mln doses are already used only in Argentina...

Sinopharm, J&J, Sputnik Vaccines Are Weaker Against Omicron in New Study - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/sinopharm-j-j-sputnik-shots-weaken-against-omicron-study-sees

[Moses]

Sinopharm, J&J, Sputnik Vaccines Are Weaker Against Omicron in New Study - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/sinopharm-j-j-sputnik-shots-weaken-against-omicron-study-sees

Every (!) vaccine is weaker. Question is how weak it is. As per Gamaleya research Sputnik is weaker 11 times, while Moderna is weaker 40-89 times (measured by Moderna).

[Nirish guy]

YMy guy and I are meant to be heading out out in Belfast this weekend with a crowd of friends both to a house party and a full on christmas bar crawl weekend and I have to say I'm starting to wonder if that's such a good idea now. My only saving grace is that where I live is about 2 weeks behind the rest of the UK infection wise so I think i'm going to risk it as one last hurrah for 2021(


Well it seems I was being a bit hopeful there as after having a few symptoms ( blocked nose, ticklish throat, sore head etc - which are all actually quite normal for me as I get sinus problems a lot) I went for a PCR yesterday which confirmed me positive for Covid ! FUCKING GREAT !!

We were literally standing getting dressed to go out to my partners big family Flipino Christmas eve dinner party when the result email came in.

So now instead of us both going out to party and both having a fun Christmas with friends we're both now self isolating at home !

Should be noted that over the last 9 days I've taken FOUR lateral flow tests before going out to any event I'd attended and all can back as clear ! Although after getting that positive PCR just now I took another lateral flow here at home and it did instantly come back as positive too, so either I've been taking them incorrectly or maybe it's just a recent infection thing, I'm not sure how that works.

But do keep that in mind as it seems that lateral flows are far from perfect perhaps in their results so if you've any sort of symptoms and you're going anywhere that matters ( to visit old people etc etc) do think of grabbing a quick PCR test just to be sure you're good to go.

FUCK you and your shitty timing Covid !!

[arsenal]

"I went for a PCR yesterday which confirmed me positive for Covid !"

Yes, you and about 1.7m UK based others are now self isolating due to basically a heavy cold. Time to put this fucking thing to bed and get on with life.

[Ruthrieston]

I am so sorry for you and your partner Nirish. I wish you a speedy recovery and a much better new year ahead. Please take care of each other.

[Nirish guy]

Yes, you and about 1.7m UK based others are now self isolating due to basically a heavy cold..

Well all I can tell you from personal experience is thank goodness I have had all 3 vaccines as it feels shit enough even with that so I wouldn't be rushing to have it without - and to describe it as a heavy cold is just over simplifying things somewhat and doesn't really help as of course some people will have issues that make it feel much worse than that and some not so much.

Thankfully so far I'm one of the not so much guys but I can tell you after exerting myself in an minor way ( like gently washing the car etc) i certainly knew about it and had to stop to recatch my breath and I'm vaguely young and fit (ish) so I can quite easily understand how an more elderly / unfit person maybe wouldn't feel like that. And I'm not trying to OVER dramatise things either there btw as IF omicron is a lesser form of things then I'm all for the lets open up and get on with it style of view.

But it IS smart IMHO that governments are taking a more cautious approach just now until we know what we're dealing with, not even just from a health point of view but also from various supply chains breaking down by people being off / infecting other people so easily and quickly ( IF) that turns out to be the case. But if it's not then yeah, open up and be damned I say too - once we know what we're dealing with.

[goji]

I expect your immune system will be nicely tuned up after 3 vaccines and a dose of live vaccine.

Anyone who has a few years ahead of them is likely to get COVID quite a few times, so I think we had better get used to the idea and live with it.

[a447]

Awful news, Nirish.

Thank God you had the sense to get vaccinated.

Take care and I hope you make a full and speedy recovery.

[Nirish guy]

I expect your immune system will be nicely tuned up after 3 vaccines and a dose of live vaccine.

Yep, thats one plus point for sure as I wouldn't fancy picking this up WITHOUT any vaccines in my system to minimise the effects.


[QUOTE=goji;285730] Anyone who has a few years ahead of them is likely to get COVID quite a few times, so I think we had better get used to the idea and live with it.

And again yep I think you're probably right there too - so again anyone who's thinking of "braving it out" in not having their vaccine ( for whatever non medical reason) I would urge that they perhaps re think that idea as instead of it BEING something that's inconvenient and something to just take care with for a week or two it could well end up as something more serious and THATS the reason to get vaccinated IMHO.

As an aside to this my partner has tested negative in all of the lateral flow tests that he's taken up right up until now. He's a health care worker so has been very cautious re all of that ( as had I actually) so he's just left to got for a PCR test ( what a way to spend bloody Christmas day :-( ) so it will be interesting to see it's result.

I'd mentioned I'd taken 4 lateral flow tests and was wondering were they just totally useless but purely to test that theory I've now taken two since my PCR result and both did come back positive so it seems they DO actually work and it seems that my PCR test was just well timed to catch it early and there may have been a few days incubation period from picking it up to it showing on any test ( not that it makes much difference).

The scarier thing is reaction of friends who i'd been with over the week when I've quietly called them to suggest they go get a test and perhaps at the least keep away from older people for the 24hrs until they get the result ( Christmas aside ) to get a flat "Na, fuck it, Im going on out, i dont care" - and whilst I get the whole "oh life has to get going stuff" to deny there is a physical issue and a virus that IS doing the rounds, that we dont know much about right now, is to me at the least irresponsible and more of them just being totally selfish cunts towards the rest of their friends, family and society in general. But that's on them I guess - while they're possibly busy out there infecting god knows how many other people with their "I know better / I just dont give a fuck attitude" :-(

[cdnmatt]

If you're scared of Covid, try doing what this guy did:

https://www.dw.com/en/covid-new-zealand-man-probed-for-having-10-vaccine-shots/a-60088319

heh, I still find that funny. Some guy went and got 10 shots in a single day.

[Nirish guy]

Some guy went and got 10 shots in a single day.

Being scared of sobering up once on a weekend "away with the lads" I seem to recall doing something similar, only difference being it was "aftershocks" instead of Astra Zenica ! :)

[gerefan2]

A friend of mine got minor symptoms and so did 2 lateral flow tests. Both positive.
He then went for the PCR test and that was positive too.

The symptoms soon went but he had to stay at home for the mandatory 10 days isolation. As his aged mother was in the house he isolated alone in his bedroom.

After a week he began to think he would follow government advice which is to clean all the hard surfaces to kill the bug. Basically it’s an alcohol mix.

So he got hold of a bottle of something good, swirled it around his mouth, gargled with it, and eventually finished the whole bottle. He went to bed pissed as a rat, but with a very clean throat.

Next day he did the flow tests (down the throat type of test) and passed!

As he had to pass two tests in a row, he repeated the procedure the next day too.

Another pass, but with a hangover!

He is all clear now.

[latintopxxx]

whenever I get a cold/flu I gargle with a warm salt solution at least 10 times a day...it weakens the severity and shortens the duration; usually the worst symptoms onky last a day...after that its 2 to 3 days of mild sniffles...guess the salt solution helps keep the volume of bugs in youyr throat/mouth/nasal passage down.

[Nirish guy]

Whats your point, that government should be issuing bottles of whiskey or vodka ?? f so I have to say I'm all for that, Not sure it'll help but it's the way I've decided to pass my time once "positive" ;-)

[gerefan2]

Whats your point, that government should be issuing bottles of whiskey or vodka ?? f so I have to say I'm all for that, Not sure it'll help but it's the way I've decided to pass my time once "positive" ;-)

Why not? They recommend disinfectants (which contain alcohol) and hand sanitizers with a MINIMUM of 60% alcohol.

So if alcohol gets rid of germs on work surfaces and your hands then surely it will work on your throat too?!

[StevieWonders]

Why not? They recommend disinfectants (which contain alcohol) and hand sanitizers with a MINIMUM of 60% alcohol.

So if alcohol gets rid of germs on work surfaces and your hands then surely it will work on your throat too?!
As I recall the “protect yourself from COVID by washing your hands and avoid touching surfaces” was advice based on an incorrect assumption that this coronavirus was similar to the Spanish flu. It isn’t so all of that advice is irrelevant

However I do have a friend who swears by snorting Listerine. No, I don’t know how he does it either and I’ve no wish to find out

[cdnmatt]

If you think listerine kills Covid, you should take Trump's advice and just drink some Clorox while you're at it.

Could have been mouthwash.... or his immune system, one or the other.

[Nirish guy]

[QUOTE=gerefan2;285757So if alcohol gets rid of germs on work surfaces and your hands then surely it will work on your throat too?![/QUOTE]


Having been "on it" all day Im all for that and am wondering ! is there a government grant I can get to help for research purposes perhaps ! :-)

PS for the avoidance of doubt I've had to type this message slowly and with one eye closed :-)

Happy Christmas to one and all !

[cdnmatt]

Having been "on it" all day Im all for that and am wondering ! is there a government grant I can get to help for research purposes perhaps ! :-)

PS for the avoidance of doubt I've had to type this message slowly and with one eye closed :-)

Happy Christmas to one and all !

I'm with you. If alcohol keeps me immune from Covid, then I'm pretty sure I'm good to go, haha.

[StevieWonders]

I'm with you. If alcohol keeps me immune from Covid, then I'm pretty sure I'm good to go, haha.Another ignorant post from the Forum 10 year old

https://www.studyfinds.org/listerine-mouthwash-deactivate-covid/

https://www.rutgers.edu/news/certain-mouthwashes-might-stop-covid-19-virus-transmission

[cdnmatt]

Another ignorant post from the Forum 10 year old


Don't be stupid, Listerine doesn't cure a lung infection.

[latintopxxx]

read an article about some over the counter nasal spray that was effective at reducing the covid virus...so dont rule out anectodal stories about listerine

[Moses]

Listerine can help just a little bit: it can kill viruses what just landed into your mouth before they will intrude into your body. But for protection you should use listerine every few minutes and you should breath by mouth only.

[dinagam]

Listerine is strongly recommended for active people like this naughty Santa Klaus...

[Nirish guy]

So if alcohol gets rid of germs on work surfaces and your hands then surely it will work on your throat too?!

Trust me I put that theory to the test and then some last night and actually I do feel a bit better today ( albeit as hung over as hell of course ! :-)

As an aside my partners PCR result arrived by email half an hour ago and perhaps unsurprisingly it seems for once I DID give him something original and something he's never had before for Christmas this year as he too has now tested positive, thankfully him with no symptoms so far anyway it seems.

Knowing him as I do though I will now be soon expecting a full range of drama queen "Im terrribly sick you know" acts to follow shortly lol - ha he knows he's playing it to the wrong gallery there though as my sympathy levels with him re the likes of that are usually close to around zero at the best of times as I've heard it all so many times before of course ! :-)

[arsenal]

Christmas in the NIrish household certainly sounds like lots of fun.

[Nirish guy]

Christmas in the NIrish household certainly sounds like lots of fun.

Not far off the mark there perhaps :)

Actually we'd a lovely Christmas day here :-) We'd peace and quiet to do our own thing, no one "calling in" with presents or "for a wee drink" ( and staying for hours), so my partner and I cooked a lovely christmas dinner and I proceeded to get slowly and merrily hammered as the day went on and we ended up singing karaoke songs on the new mic thing I'd bought him for Christmas until about 3am - I'm sure the neighbours just loved us ! :-) So as Christmas days go as there was no family dramas, no burnt diners and no annoying friends and neighbours "popping in" it was actually one of the better ones I've had in a while :-)

[goji]

Christmas in the NIrish household certainly sounds like lots of fun.

NIrish screaming "Harold!"

[Nirish guy]

NIrish screaming "Harold!"

And his partner shouting' You dirrrrty old man" - so yeah, as I said, not to far off the mark :-)

[a447]

Great to see you still have your sense of humour Nirish, despite your situation.

[christianpfc]

...do think of grabbing a quick PCR test just to be sure you're good to go.
Grab a quick PCR test? Where I tested by PCR (Germany, Cambodia, Thailand), they cost about 100 EUR and results come back in 24 hours.

[Nirish guy]

They’re free in the UK and available on a walk in service with results in 24 hours or less. Likewise boxes of lateral flow tests are also free for all citizens who request them.