Can Booze Bring Back Sunee?

[Manforallseasons]

Not being a fan of the complex and seeing little hope for Boystown can the end of the ban bring life to Sunee?

https://youtu.be/lBtpK2aH-9s

[vnman]

Not being a fan of the complex and seeing little hope for Boystown can the end of the ban bring life to Sunee?


I wouldn't know how. Most of us have seen the decline over the years and with Double-shot closed, it is more than another nail in the coffin. Winner and Nice Boys are different from anything you could find in Boystown but can they survive so isolated?

The best thing for the gogo scene in Pattaya would be if all bars move to the same area, wherever that may be.

[dinagam]

Sunee needs plenty of boys at attention and at various stages of erection in order to draw the teetotalers as well as the drunkards into the bars...

[Dodger]

All a fire needs is a single burning ember to get it started, and I believe there are several burning embers in Sunee now.

Most of the expats and visitors that I know (including myself) prefer the atmosphere that Sunee provides over The Complex and are just waiting for the lights to go on.

Don't get me wrong...I'm grateful that The Complex has made the investment that it has and is positioned so well, but, as far as I'm concerned, NOTHING could ever take the place of Sunee.

Can booze bring it back? It can certainly get those embers glowing.

[Manforallseasons]

All a fire needs is a single burning ember to get it started, and I believe there are several burning embers in Sunee now.
Most of the expats and visitors that I know (including myself) prefer the atmosphere that Sunee provides over The Complex
Can booze bring it back? It can certainly get those embers glowing.

I would like to think there will be more “embers” but look at the facts: Sunee was successful because of it’s many sleazy GoGo bars which brought many punters not all geriatrics which is the customer base in the Complex, without a good reason for foreigners of a broad age group to come just reopening a few bars will hardly make the “embers glow”.

[arsenal]

Swings and roundabouts. Not so long ago Jomtien was a graveyard with few bars lasting more than a year and Sunee bounced like The Village People on crack cocaine. A couple more go go bars and the magic could return. A free hourly shuttle between the two would benefit the bars in both areas.

[Oliver2]

An interesting idea. Didn't Kevin hope to operate one when he opened Birds' Nest after Throb closed? It wouldn't have worked when we were last there (two years ago)....the Jomtien- Pattaya journey was arduous owing to the roadworks.

The entire Sunee area- not just "our" part- declined when the shisha bars were closed , making the walk there through darkened and largely empty streets depressing. And unlike JC, it never had decent hotels. BT at its best was lively throughout the day, with guests at the three main hotels enjoying drinks on the terraces.

[Manforallseasons]

The entire Sunee area- not just "our" part- declined when the shisha bars were closed , making the walk there through darkened and largely empty streets depressing.

Sunee was already on its last legs when the Arabs came and their presence did nothing for the few gay venues left and turned off many gay visitors with their racing about and there overall lack of manners.

[Blueskytoday]

Just buy a coke,,,you don't need a damn beer to enjoy everything..

[Manforallseasons]

Just buy a coke,,,you don't need a damn beer to enjoy everything..

Huh?

[Jellybean]

Just buy a coke,,,you don't need a damn beer to enjoy everything..

Huh?

Aw c'mon, Manforallseasons, everyone knows things go better with Coke. ;)

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[gerefan2]

Surely you remember...

[London68]

Was never a supporter of Sunee,although went down there a few times years ago.I wish it well for the future.

[Dodger]

The Sunee Swan Song

I remember sitting in a beer bar across from Kaos listening to a farang ranting on-and-on about how “Sunee was on its last legs”…”and how the fat lady had taken the stage and the Sunee Swan Song was now playing”. The bar I was sitting in was Yaya’s shortly after Barry and Yaya hung their sign somewhere around 2008. Here we are nearly 14 years later and I still hear the same remarks.

Either Sunee has more legs than anyone cared to count back then, or the Fat Lady is singing a song that belongs in the Guinness Book of World Records as being the longest song ever played, because, as dark and dismal as Sunee is right now, it still refuses to drop its curtain. Dark and dismal, yes. Very few bars left standing, yes. But still alive.

It wasn’t the Arabs with their shisha’s that started the decay in Sunee, it was The Market. Fewer and fewer gay tourists were coming to Thailand due to a whole host of reasons, and the escalating police raids in Sunee didn’t help matters either. Sunee took another major hit in 2010 when a major campaign against drugs was launched by a newly assigned police commissioner in Bangkok which landed many of the working boys in Sunee (and other places) in prison. The BIB who controlled the operations in Sunee during that period were relocated to other posts – and the street mafia was forced to go farther underground. This is what knocked the wind out of Sunee (and Boyztown and JC as well).

The bars who survived this period (few as there are right now) could reopen and make a go of it, but their future is in the hands of Madam Sunee. She has to be as old as Moses right now and if she sells the property, or leaves it to her relatives who want to sell it, then Sunee Plaza will probably end up being demolished. That’s when we’ll see the last leg topple. That’s when the fat lady will end her song. But right now, there’s no sign of any of that happening.

Sunee will never return to its Glory Days, so those of us who were fortunate enough to have experienced that amazing and surrealistic period in time, should consider ourselves fortunate. But as long as there are survivors in Sunee like Mama Lek, Green Chairs owner, Beer and Mak at Nice Boys, Winner Gogo, and a few others, who are willing to give it another go and refuse to throw in the towel – I’m right there with them.

Sunee needs our support, the same way the bars in Jomtien Complex need our support, and the only way we can do that is by keeping hope alive (the same way they are)…visiting these bars the minute they open (some already are)…encourage others to do the same…be generous in your spending when you do go…and speak in a positive manner about the bar owners plight to survive.

As a side note: I have frequent conversations with the owner of Green Chairs Bar. She is a very street-wise elderly Thai woman who has been operating her bar longer than any other business in Sunee. I remember shooting snooker with her grandson when he had to stand on a wooden box to be able to see the top of the snooker table – who now tends bar for her. This was back in the days when Sportsman’s Bar and Amigo Pub were her neighbors.

She probably knows more about the history and inner workings of Sunee than even Madam Sunee herself. She looked at me…squinted her eyes in the early morning sun,…smiled…and said in a very calm voice, that Sunee will survive - with several host bars and a few gogo bars (Winner, Nice Boys) reopening when the green light is given. She went on to say that her close friend Mama Lek (One Bar) plans to reopen as well. She knows that Sunee will never be anywhere near as busy as it was in its hay day, but busy enough to keep a few beer bars and gogo bars afloat which works for her. It works for me too.

So MFAS, to answer your original question: Can Booze bring Back Sunee?

The answer is No.

What will bring back Sunee are people who think and speak in a positive manner about the plight of the surviving bar owners, who refuse to give up hope.

[Manforallseasons]

Dodger, agree with most of your post however, just speaking positive of the few remaining bar owners won’t bring customers back as they still need a reason to return. BTW other than Pai, Lek and the Danish guy who owns Winner who else is left?

[Dodger]

......just speaking positive of the few remaining bar owners won’t bring customers back as they still need a reason to return.

The initial REASON has to be that they want the bars and the scene to survive. This process has to start with customers being of a mind-set to want to GIVE BACK (help rebuild) - not solely focused on what's in it for them.

I heard about one farang complaining about there not being enough boys around to his liking at a bar in Jomtien Complex last night. This is a perfect example of a person with the wrong mind-set. Here we are, at what we hope is the tail-end of a global pandemic that tossed Thailand in a tailspin resulting in businesses going broke, people standing in food lines, and an escalation in suicides, and all this one self-centered idiot thought about last night was how well he was being serviced/satisfied. Not a single hint of gratitude for the fact that the bar was even able to reopen, with at least a few boys on staff. His only thoughts were about HIMSELF.

If this is the way the majority of punters think and react to these bar openings - the bars won't be staying open very long.

This is a time when Supporters are needed...not whiners and complainers.

[goji]

I heard about one farang complaining about there not being enough boys around to his liking at a bar in Jomtien Complex last night

I also noticed fewer boys than expected in Jomtien on Sunday. That's not something I complain about, since there were enough boys to brighten up the experience.

Also, the pandemic has accelerated the growth of e-commerce and that seems to include the prostitution sector. Particularly when they have been forced to trade online for months. The lad I met on Monday knew I was in Jomtien the previous evening, just from the distance reading on Grindr. There is no need for him to actually go to the bars.
To reverse that situation, I guess it needs farang to actually save their boy hunting for the bars. That's not going to happen overnight, if at all.

[a447]

The quickest and easiest way to get Sunee up and running again would be for the present bar owners to get together and advertise on gay Chinese websites.

There are more than enough gay Chinese guys out there but they won't come if they don't know a place such as Sunee actually exists.

I'm sure there is nothing like it in China.

[Manforallseasons]

The quickest and easiest way to get Sunee up and running again would be for the present bar owners to get together and advertise on gay Chinese websites.

There are more than enough gay Chinese guys out there but they won't come if they don't know a place such as Sunee actually exists.

I'm sure there is nothing like it in China.

Considering at the moment because of Covid mainland Chinese are very much discouraged from traveling abroad, this makes no sense.

[arsenal]

The Chinese aren't coming back for at least two years and maybe not ever in such large numbers. The turtle is retreating back into his shell.

[Dodger]

The Chinese aren't coming back for at least two years and maybe not ever in such large numbers.

There is a God!

[a447]

Considering at the moment because of Covid mainland Chinese are very much discouraged from traveling abroad, this makes no sense.

Well, I wasn't suggesting that the Chinese would be arriving in Pattaya anytime soon, given the pandemic is still raging in China and many other countries.

I was actually looking a bit forward to the time when travel was getting back to normal and tourists from all over the world would be on the move again. Advertising their product would give Sunee the kick-start it will need when that happens.

[Armando]

What will bring back Sunee are people who think and speak in a positive manner about the plight of the surviving bar owners, who refuse to give up hope.
And what I wonder will bring them back? A couple of bars reopening? No way.

Sunee needs to become a destination in itself once again, one where there is a specific reason to visit. What made Sunee a destination were partly the gogos being a lot raunchier than Boyztown and a cluster of bars with fairly regular customers and cute waiters. Roaming though the Plaza and having a drink was actually interesting, as much for the people/boy watching as for the drinking and ogling. I reckon it will take the addition of at least half a dozen venues to open up again, including a couple more gogos, before it has a chance of attracting enough customers to make it a destination again. But that becomes a chicken and egg situation.

[bkkguy]

I reckon it will take the addition of at least half a dozen venues to open up again, including a couple more gogos, before it has a chance of attracting enough customers to make it a destination again. But that becomes a chicken and egg situation.

I would have thought that anyone who had been reading any of the gay, or even straight, Thailand forums over the past few years couldn't have failed to notice that even pre-COVID the sexpats/sex tourists attracted to places like Sunee, and even Walking Street and the Pattaya of old generally, were a dying breed - literally - so I think any prospective Sunee bar owners shouldn't count their chickens before they hatch and certainly shouldn't put all their eggs in a Sunee basket

[Dodger]

And what I wonder will bring them back? A couple of bars reopening? No way.

Sunee needs to become a destination in itself once again, one where there is a specific reason to visit..

Sunee will never return to being the "Destination" you describe, because the Market's simply not there anymore. That points already been made.

If a couple of the bars in Sunee you mentioned happen to include the only Boy Gogo Bars in Pattaya, they'll probably get all the customers they need to stay afloat. They did before the pandemic - and there's no reason to think they won't after. Some of the punters I know (expats and tourists) would drag themselves through the mud for the opportunity to experience a night at the gogo again.

If you doubt that the bars reopening in Sunee will bring the customers back, which you apparently do, just look at what's going on in Jomtien Complex right now,

The gay bars in Pattaya, or that fact Thailand, won't be servicing masses of people like they did in days-gone-by - they'll be serving the local gay expat community and a moderate flow of tourists. One would have to think the bar owners already know this. I don't think anyone's caught in the delusion that any of these places are going to be packed to the brim every night, but for some (me included), that's OK.

[StevieWonders]

The Chinese aren't coming back for at least two years and maybe not ever in such large numbers. The turtle is retreating back into his shell. From what I read the Chinese government has stopped issuing/renewing passports except (as always) to the favoured few

[gerefan2]

All this chat about Sunee reminds me of the good old days!
Some of my old pics from 2013

[StevieWonders]

All this chat about Sunee reminds me of the good old days!
Some of my old pics from 2013 Heavens you have changed a lot in just a few years

[gerefan2]

While I have my old pics up and running....New Year Eve 2010.

I hope you don’t mind me including your modelling portrait at the end Stevie.

[Armando]

If you doubt that the bars reopening in Sunee will bring the customers back, which you apparently do, just look at what's going on in Jomtien Complex right now
And what makes Jomtien Complex so special that it is actually attracting customers? Because it is a destination with a cluster of bars and lots of boys around. Sunee has been in its death throes for years. Even a handful of bars is not going to ensure its resurrection.

Re Chinese tourists, did anyone ever notice more than an occasional Chinese wandering around Sunee Plaza? I doubt it. Most Chinese gays don't join the ghastly tour groups. They visit as individuals and most are not into gogo bars and beer bars. Their interests are much more into massage spas, gay discos and sometimes gay saunas - and shopping. I know of Chinese gays who travel to places like Singapore and Hong Kong where picking up the latest Rolex or Louis Vuitton bags are just as important as nighttime activities.

That's precisely why an advertising blitz in China as suggested by one poster to attract them to Sunee can never work in my view. The solo/small Chinese gay groups will always gravitate to Bangkok.

[Dodger]

......And what makes Jomtien Complex so special that it is actually attracting customers?

Huh?,,,I can't believe you just asked that.

Answer: Because Jomtien Complex is the only place in Pattaya that has gay bars that are open right now.

[StevieWonders]

Huh?,,,I can't believe you just asked that.

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[a447]

That's precisely why an advertising blitz in China as suggested by one poster to attract them to Sunee can never work in my view. The solo/small Chinese gay groups will always gravitate to Bangkok.

I made that suggestion as I think there are plenty of Chinese guys who would love some hands-on action à la Nice Boys. I understand it may not appeal to all, just as lots of farang are not particularly interested in getting down and dirty.

But they should at least know such a place exists. Given the sheer number of Chinese, a very small percentage who wished for a bit of sleaze would still constitute a large number of individuals. And it's individuals I'm talking about herr, not tour groups.

A few years ago a ran into 2 Japanese guys who had stumbled into Sunee, although not quite by accident. Someone over in Boyztown had sent them off in the general direction. They were speechless at what was available. I sent them off to Goodboys. I can just imagine their reaction as the guys pulled out their huge Isaan cocks and lined up for a chuck-wow.

There is definitely a market for the sleazy Asian tourist in Pattaya. And those who love Louis Vuitton can do their shopping before they fly out of Bangkok.

[goji]

I know one gay Chinese guy, a former student in the UK. Anyhow, we met up again in SE Asia and he just assumed there would be full on nudity in the bars. I had to reign in his expectations.
Anyhow, for now, the great dictator in Beijing is discouraging his citizens from travelling, with heavy restrictions. Therefore, their preferences have very little immediate impact in Thailand.

As I sat consuming my booze in Sunee, at one of the not open bars, I was just remembering the good old days. For instance, walking into Eros and having a naked lad bouncing up and down on my lap within about a minute. It's boys and bars that would bring back Sunnee, specifically more risque gogo bars. Booze is less of a factor, as that can be had anywhere, in normal times.

[vnman]

All this chat about Sunee reminds me of the good old days!
Some of my old pics from 2013

It is funny that you think that 2013 were the "good old days." For me, it would be 2004/5 but I am sure that for many others Sunee was already in decline back then.

[arsenal]

I wonder how many times this conversation has been played out throughout history.

The Colosseum as a couple of gladiators do combat with a toothless old lion.
'Of course in the past there were a hundred gladiators and a hundred lions. That's Why I moved here.'

Machu Picchu as a geriatric granny us offered up for sacrifice.
'Back in the day they'd sacrifice whole villages to the gods. Now look, a shadow of its former self.'

Nantucket as a whaling ship comes in with a couple of belugas and a baby wright.
'When I started the ship's had to queue up for days to land. Now it's all done.'

[goji]

I wonder how many times this conversation has been played out throughout history.
I suspect the decline of Sunee was due to a number of factors:

1 Firstly, exchange rate movements eliminated some of the customers.

2 Laws and continual police raids seem to have removed some of the more raunchy bars. (I support any action enforcing age limits, but not restrictions on what consenting adults get up to in the bars).

3 Phones emerged as an alternative hook up mechanism. Phones are more efficient and I"m quite pleased with the results from the apps. However, the process of finding a boy is less fun.
I suspect the boys prefer the apps too. Instead of spending hours on stage in underwear, they just fix up a Grindr profile and then wait for customers. When they get an approach, they can decide whether or not to accept and don't need to argue over the matter with a mamasan.

4 Then along came COVID and more critically, government restrictions.

Currently none of these reasons for decline are reversed.

[Dodger]

I wonder how many times this conversation has been played out throughout history.

The Colosseum as a couple of gladiators do combat with a toothless old lion.
'Of course in the past there were a hundred gladiators and a hundred lions. That's Why I moved here.'

Machu Picchu as a geriatric granny us offered up for sacrifice.
'Back in the day they'd sacrifice whole villages to the gods. Now look, a shadow of its former self.'

Nantucket as a whaling ship comes in with a couple of belugas and a baby wright.
'When I started the ship's had to queue up for days to land. Now it's all done.'

ASA - are you drunk?

[Oliver2]

Vnman writes; "It is funny that you think that 2013 were the "good old days." For me, it would be 2004/5 but I am sure that for many others Sunee was already in decline back then."

Older hands will recall that Sunee barely existed as a gay area before 1997....my first knowledge of it was from a flier delivered that year to the beached whales on Jomtien Beach which described it as "the new Boyztown.". And its decline after 2005, the reasons for which have already been mentioned, shows that it had a very short shelf-life.

Which is not to say that it is a loss; it offered something different not only to Pattaya but to Bangkok, Phuket and Chiang Mai.

[gerefan2]

It is funny that you think that 2013 were the "good old days." For me, it would be 2004/5 but I am sure that for many others Sunee was already in decline back then.

Because I don’t have any pics going back that far!

[chubby]

I wouldn't know how. Most of us have seen the decline over the years and with Double-shot closed, it is more than another nail in the coffin. Winner and Nice Boys are different from anything you could find in Boystown but can they survive so isolated?

The best thing for the gogo scene in Pattaya would be if all bars move to the same area, wherever that may be.

yes...why not all bars from boystown move to sunee plaza...sunee plaza would be big enough for that...i think this is the only way to survive for sunee and boystown

[StevieWonders]

yes...why not all bars from boystown move to sunee plaza...sunee plaza would be big enough for that...i think this is the only way to survive for sunee and boystown Here's a thought for all those "gay friends of Pattaya" - pool all your resources, buy up all the bars that aren't in Sunee already, relocate them to Sunee (remembering to set aside money for refurbishment of the premises you're moving into) and then ensure that no-one can move into the premises you've just vacated and open a new gay bar because they have a different idea about how and where to make money. Simples

[a447]

yes...why not all bars from boystown move to sunee plaza..

That may not work because both areas cater to different tastes.

[Armando]

I suspect the decline of Sunee was due to a number of factors:

1 Firstly, exchange rate movements eliminated some of the customers.

2 Laws and continual police raids seem to have removed some of the more raunchy bars. (I support any action enforcing age limits, but not restrictions on what consenting adults get up to in the bars).

3 Phones emerged as an alternative hook up mechanism. Phones are more efficient and I"m quite pleased with the results from the apps. However, the process of finding a boy is less fun.
I suspect the boys prefer the apps too. Instead of spending hours on stage in underwear, they just fix up a Grindr profile and then wait for customers. When they get an approach, they can decide whether or not to accept and don't need to argue over the matter with a mamasan.

4 Then along came COVID and more critically, government restrictions.

Currently none of these reasons for decline are reversed.
Surely the ageing of the clientele is another key reason. Were younger guys being attracted to Sunee before covid?

[goji]

Surely the ageing of the clientele is another key reason. Were younger guys being attracted to Sunee before covid?

Surely everyone ages one year at a time, so as past clients age, others move into the age bracket who would typically be attracted to Sunee ? So this alone cannot be a factor.

Of course people who have aged into the target market for Sunee all have their phones. If the bar offering is weak, the bars don't stand a chance against phone apps.

[arsenal]

In normal times Sunee can support about 4 go go bars all of which should probably be full hands on fun.

[goji]

In normal times Sunee can support about 4 go go bars all of which should probably be full hands on fun.

I'd like to think you are right.
However, before COVID, Sunee was already down to just 2 gogo bars. Some of that was possibly self inflicted, as I remember going into Power Boys and thinking they have already given up on any effort to succeed.
Perhaps 4 well run gogo bars might survive

[a447]

In normal times Sunee can support about 4 go go bars all of which should probably be full hands on fun.

Goodboys, Niceboys, Winners and Eros - plus say, 2 massage places like the old All of Me and a couple of beer bars.

No shows, no ladyboys - just sleaze and booze.

Done!

[dinagam]

And a nail salon next to a hair salon manned by young and healthy males.

[StevieWonders]

And a nail salon next to a hair salon manned by young and healthy males. Perhaps you're thinking of my future male spa complex - head jobs, hand jobs, foot jobs and massage jobs, tentatively named "Mankind"

[arsenal]

"Goodboys, Niceboys, Winners and Eros - plus say, 2 massage places like the old All of Me and a couple of beer bars"

Goodboys. A go go bar in alll but name and the most underrated entertainment establishment ever. Lots of beautiful straight boys lined up.
Go in.
Sit down.
Get drink.
Call boy over..
Pull down his pants.
Have fun.

Easier than a Delia recipe for toast..

[bkkguy]

And a nail salon next to a hair salon manned by young and healthy males.

and don't forget the walking stick and zimmer frame emporium

[Manforallseasons]

and don't forget the walking stick and zimmer frame emporium

Good idea, first try one in the Complex!

[vnman]

That may not work because both areas cater to different tastes.

Outlet stores sell a very wide range merchandise for different tastes, be it shoes, clothes, etc...

The idea is that owners can offer customers drinks at a reduced rate (take Winner as an example) and bars can profit from each other's customers.

[siscu58]

Older hands will recall that Sunee barely existed as a gay area before 1997...

My first visit to Sunee was in the lates 1980's. At that time the gay activity was frantic at night.

[Oliver2]

What bars were there? I recall Crazy Boys (not to be confused with the Krazy Boys host bar) and I know of, but never visited, Boys' Studio in Day/Night, which had, I believe, a number of other facilities....is this the area to which you refer? I suspect that what we call Sunee wasn't even built ....but I stand to be corrected.

[Dodger]

What bars were there? I recall Crazy Boys (not to be confused with the Krazy Boys host bar) and I know of, but never visited, Boys' Studio in Day/Night, which had, I believe, a number of other facilities....is this the area to which you refer? I suspect that what we call Sunee wasn't even built ....but I stand to be corrected.

My first visit to Sunee was in 1998, and I believe it had been in operation for at least a few years prior to that first visit.

I think you're referring to Crazy Pub - the predecessor of Krazy Dragon, which, from what I understand was the first boy gogo in Sunee.

The other establishments I remember being in Sunee at the time were as follows (foggy memory at best):

Violet House (still standing), Sportsman's Bar (predecessor of Corner Bar - then Double Shot), Green Chairs Snooker Bar (name?), Monty's Cafe' Bar (quasi gogo, with boys dancing naked on small wooden tables when Monty got drunk), Euro Boys Gogo, Pioneer Club, Sammy's Bar, Boy E-San Bar, Redgy's Place, Amigo Pub (second Gogo in Sunee with very young dancers), Spot Light Disco (similar style as Eros), Banana's Boy Club.

I believe (but could be wrong) that Top Man Show Bar, KAOS Gogo, Sundance Gogo, K-Boys Gogo (predecessor of Nice Boys), Mic My Gogo (predecessor of Power Boys), and the original Memories Bar, all opened up a few years later.

Those were the days!

[Oliver2]

You forgot Nok Nok, the first Sunee go go bar I visited in '97 or 98. A vast, cavernous space, situated near to where Krazy was soon operating. All Boys, a hundred yards away up Soi Yensabai, was also around. A very odd place, where the guys merely stood on a stage and chatted. A bit like what later became known as "go go dancing"!

One way to conclude the "when did Sunee start-up" discussion would be to look at the gay guides of the time. Only Crazy appears in my 1994 version of the guide by Michael Notcutt. I'm sticking to my view that Sunee was not a bustling centre for gay visitors until the mid-90s. The guide refers to it as being mainly patronised by locals.

[thaiophilus]

One way to conclude the "when did Sunee start-up" discussion would be to look at the gay guides of the time. Only Crazy appears in my 1994 version of the guide by Michael Notcutt. I'm sticking to my view that Sunee was not a bustling centre for gay visitors until the mid-90s. The guide refers to it as being mainly patronised by locals.

Yes, Thai Scene 1997 (post-Notcutt) lists Crazy Boys but at "Second Road behind old Day & Night bazaar", not in Sunee, and there is no mention of Sunee at all. There's no mention of either Crazy or Sunee in my Notcutt dated 1994 (but we may have different editions despite the same dates).

The first reference to Sunee in the copies I have of "The Men of Thailand" is the 6th edition (1997), where Crazy Pub & Disco is listed at 273/66 Soi Sunee Plaza. 15 Boys Club is listed in both 1997 guides on (of course!) soi 15, so nearly-but-not-quite Sunee. TMOT 7th edition (1999) has a section for Sunee, including Bad Boys, Blue House, Crazy, Kaos and Pattaya Bar. It also lists some bars in soi 14 and 15 and Day-NIght Plaza .

[Dodger]

I'm sticking to my view that Sunee was not a bustling centre for gay visitors until the mid-90s.

According to Wikipedia, Crazy pub was the first gay bar in Sunee Plaza and opened in 1996.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunee_Plaza

[Manforallseasons]

This walk down Sunee memory lane was certainly great but to answer the question “Can Booze Bring Back Sunee” the answer is unfortunately NO!

[Oliver2]

Mea culpa....but be honest, Pattaya's past is infinitely preferable to its present. And of the two, the 1990s are more real to me than the vague hopes for the future.to which we cling desperately.

Sorry to be pessimistic , but a month after my flight to BKK was cancelled, a second one booked and paid for a few weeks later has just met the same fate.

Anyway, back to the booze. Much needed today. Shame I'm a Methodist.

[maump]

Yes, Thai Scene 1997 (post-Notcutt) lists Crazy Boys but at "Second Road behind old Day & Night bazaar", not in Sunee, and there is no mention of Sunee at all. There's no mention of either Crazy or Sunee in my Notcutt dated 1994 (but we may have different editions despite the same dates).

The first reference to Sunee in the copies I have of "The Men of Thailand" is the 6th edition (1997), where Crazy Pub & Disco is listed at 273/66 Soi Sunee Plaza. 15 Boys Club is listed in both 1997 guides on (of course!) soi 15, so nearly-but-not-quite Sunee. TMOT 7th edition (1999) has a section for Sunee, including Bad Boys, Blue House, Crazy, Kaos and Pattaya Bar. It also lists some bars in soi 14 and 15 and Day-NIght Plaza .

I have the second edition of "Men Of Thailand" (1990) no Sunee .... or Jomtien complex. Jomtien Condotel plaza is shown on the map, but no bars there. There are 2 maps North Pattaya (near Terminal 21 mall), and South Pattaya (boystown).

I can list the bars if anyone is interested.

I have a 1991 Tours to Paradise video tape Thailand Through a Gay Traveler's Eyes" that i would love to watch again, digitize (and post on youtube.....

[Dodger]

Interesting, that through all of our historical perspectives, we've come to the conclusion that Sunee Plaza was first hatched in 1996 with one single gay bar..."Crazy Pub". Then, as the number of gay visitors to Pattaya started skyrocketing - so did the number of gay venues.

Here we are 25 years later, after encountering a sharp decline in the number of gay tourists in Pattaya - where the number of gay venues has sharply declined in exact proportion. The only difference is Sunee Plaza still has 2 gogo bars and a handful of host bars still standing (hopefully) which is far more than were there in 1996.

So you ask yourself the question: Can gay life in Sunee Plaza survive? When, in reality, we should be asking ourselves; Will the number of gay visitors to Pattaya ever increase? Because the survival of Sunee Plaza will ultimately be determined by the answer to that question.

[a447]

I can list the bars if anyone is interested.

There is already a thread devoted to this topic, so please feel free to post the list here

https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?21281-The-LIST-of-GAY-BARS-and-GOGO-s-in-PATTAYA-from-1980-till-now

[goji]

Will the number of gay visitors to Pattaya ever increase? Because the survival of Sunee Plaza will ultimately be determined by the answer to that question.

Pattaya firstly needs to attract the gay visitors, but once we are here, the bars also need to offer enough to get us to visit Sunnee.

At present, the authorities still seem to be trying to discourage visitors, by keeping facilities closed, as we witnessed in Jomtien last night. Whilst I can cope with that, I suspect most of the target market is less tolerant.

Then once we are here, the bars need to attract our business. Bars like Winner or something along the lines of past favourites like Euro Boys or Eros would get me in. Nice Boys can forget it, since I don't come here to see podgy guys covered in tattoos.

[Oliver2]

Are there many young (under forties) gay men anxious to be involved in the bar-scene in Thailand and to pay Thai guys a few years younger than themselves for companionship? How often do we see falang of that age in JC, BT or Sunee? Rarely, I suggest.

And are young "clubbers" likely to travel thousands of miles, at huge cost, to enjoy Bangkok's gay clubs when so many are available nearer to home?

The fact is, we are dying-out, slowly and inexorably and the scene which intoxicated men like me, desperate to escape a lifetime of repression and denial, will end with us.

It's not to say that Thailand won't attract gay people for other reasons but sitting in a Sunee bar watching cute guys dancing and then enjoying company with one of them? I suspect those days won't return after we have gone.

[Dodger]

Then once we are here, the bars need to attract our business. Bars like Winner or something along the lines of past favourites like Euro Boys or Eros would get me in. Nice Boys can forget it, since I don't come here to see podgy guys covered in tattoos.

I hear you loud and clear.

As much as I always enjoyed Sunee, that last few years (before the pandemic) was getting dreadful. There were too many retired song teaw drivers posing as gogo boys around the scene, and not enough boys of staff in general.

The bar owners should go back to the Plan that worked years ago. Hire a seasoned ladyboy mamasan who knows how to recruit, train and manage the type of boys that the customers want.

As much as I've heard punters complain about the slim twink-type pretty boys over the years, believe it or not, those were always the most popular boys who got offed the most frequently. The muscle-bound MAN BOYs were (are) also popular, but with a smaller slice of the market.

Nice Boys is a perfect example of "what not to do". Beer and Mak started recruiting the type of boys THEY prefer (mostly macho types) which turned off a lot of their previous clientele - and then kept the same ones on stage for an epoch until they could hardly see off the stage with all the cataracts in their eyes. There are a couple of really decent guys there - don't get me wrong, but they would make better chess partners than sex partners.

The only chance Sunee has of survival is the return of enough gay tourists to keep the bin full - and experienced mamasans at the helm who know what it takes to keep the customers satisfied.

Mamasan Jack from the old Euro Boys immediately comes to mind - may she rest in peace.

[Dodger]

The fact is, we are dying-out, slowly and inexorably and the scene which intoxicated men like me, desperate to escape a lifetime of repression and denial, will end with us.

As long as it lasts exactly as long as I do, it works for me.

[goji]

I hear you loud and clear.

As much as I always enjoyed Sunee, that last few years (before the pandemic) was getting dreadful. There were too many retired song teaw drivers posing as gogo boys around the scene, and not enough boys of staff in general.

The bar owners should go back to the Plan that worked years ago. Hire a seasoned ladyboy mamasan who knows how to recruit, train and manage the type of boys that the customers want.

I largely agree, although if they can get cute boys without a ladyboy mamasan, even better. Having said that, I don't recall a nuisance in your face mamasan in places like Euro Boys, Eros or Happy Boys. So perhaps a balance can be struck.

As for the board member who doesn't like skinny lads, well he always had the option of going to A-Bomb....

[arsenal]

Remember that Jomtien stagnated for years with some new places not even lasting the season. Then The Venue opened, it drew in the crowds and other bars flourished. Sunee...it only takes one 'must go to' place to revitalise an area.

[a447]

Sunee...it only takes one 'must go to' place to revitalise an area.

Eros, naturally.

[Armando]

The bar owners should go back to the Plan that worked years ago.
And how often have you seen gay venue owners do what is logical? Hardly ever! Western logic is not similar to Thai logic.

[arsenal]

"And how often have you seen gay venue owners do what is logical? Hardly ever! Western logic is not similar to Thai logic."

Many years ago I suggested to a few go go bar owners that they play music that their target market likes. Western easy listening. They looked at me as if I'd just fucked the cat. And yet when I play a few songs of that ilk for a boy in my room he invariably loves them.

[Oliver2]

I can remember the music played in the bars in the Good Old Days. It was tuneful (for example, Broken-hearted Woman) and played at a level which didn't hurt (and ultimately damage) ear-drums.

[sglad]

Can booze bring back Sunee?

Yes, but only if it's Jesus juice.

[vnman]

"And yet when I play a few songs of that ilk for a boy in my room he invariably loves them.

Are those the same boys that tell me that they love me?

:))

[arsenal]

I don't know. If he comes out of the shower dancing then.its a fair bet he likes the song. Try it.

[Dodger]

I don't know. If he comes out of the shower dancing then.its a fair bet he likes the song. Try it.

I was groomed on Western classical rock - but prefer Thai pop or R&B when I'm in LOS.

Watching the boys shaking their booties to songs like the one below could never be replicated with a Western song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hedDxB-w2xY

[Oliver2]

Thanks...that song was often used in Kevin's Throb. Some good memories! I had no idea it was Thai.

[Dodger]

Thanks...that song was often used in Kevin's Throb. Some good memories! I had no idea it was Thai.

Tata Young (Thai-American hybrid)

Another one of Kevin's favorites below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOH-D--QOnw

[Oliver2]

Perhaps we could have a "happy memories" thread?

[jolyjacktar]

i used to love Sunee and would sit a corner bar and montys pool bar and have a great time watching the boys on the greasy pole over the swimming pool

[aussie]

Nice Boys was open last night with seven boys shirtless and less if required. Another blonde boy sat fully dressed. It was good to enjoy the entertainment available there again. My Leo beer was 200 baht. The rest of Sunee was very dark with no street lighting. Two beer bars were open with a few customers inside.

A Winner bar boy was outside near his bar and said that Winner Bar was open from 8.00pm. Maybe another visit is required tonight.