You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?

[StevieWonders]

It’s certainly a paradise for retirees in Pattaya who desire an unending supply of cheap male prostitutes. But according to Thailand’s Constitutional Court this week, same-sex activity is against the natural order.

Thailand’s Constitutional Court yesterday conceded that its objections to same-sex marriage are ideological rather than legal in a statement declaring it “against the natural order.”

The comments, included in the court’s full 12-page ruling against a challenge to the charter’s prohibition of same-sex marriage, angered proponents and supporters of marriage equality and has sent #ConstitutionalCourtisSexist trending atop Thai Twitter since last night.

“The Constitutional Court had many ways to write its ruling on marriage equality that recognized people’s hearts and exercised goodwill. But from the way it was written, it obviously shows that they had no heart nor empathy of any kind,” wrote writer and illustrator Teepagorn “Champ” Wuttipitayamongkol. “They see that all people are just inferior subjects to them.” Gender rights activist Nada Chaiyait’s post on Facebook was more succinct: “This country is not haven but hell for LGBTIQNAs+”

Portions of the ruling reflected the court’s culturally conservative roots, stating that because marriage is only for reproduction, LGBTQ relationships are unnatural because they cannot produce children. “Marriage equality would not only overturn the natural order, but it would also shake the very foundation of society and humanity,” read the ruling.

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/lgbtq-couples-families-and-marriage-are-against-the-natural-order-thai-constitutional-court-rules/

[Nirish guy]

"because marriage is only for reproduction, LGBTQ relationships are unnatural because they cannot produce children"

I'm sure couples who for whatever cant or choose not to conceieve children will be shocked to find out that their marriage is at best worthless and at worst "unatural" ! I wonder who's going to tell them !?

[StevieWonders]

"because marriage is only for reproduction, LGBTQ relationships are unnatural because they cannot produce children"

I'm sure couples who for whatever cant or choose not to conceieve children will be shocked to find out that their marriage is at best worthless and at worst "unatural" ! I wonder who's going to tell them !?Why would they get married at all?

[arsenal]

"You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?"

You can get married to your boyfriend in Middlesborough, Merthyr Tydfil and Slough. Gay paradises all, right?

[francois]

Why would they get married at all?

Love!

[StevieWonders]

Love!So marriage is the gold-plated, genuine relationship and everything else is merely shacking up? How quaint

[StevieWonders]

The local activists are pressing on - https://prachatai.com/english/node/9596

[StevieWonders]

"You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?"

You can get married to your boyfriend in Middlesborough, Merthyr Tydfil and Slough. Gay paradises all, right?I guess having failed demonstrably at English our intrepid poster now wants to demonstrate his complete incompetence at the syllogism

[Armando]

Gay Paradise? Isn't that an entirely subjective notion? Not much of a paradise if one happens not to be into Asian guys. I don't know much about the make-up of the gay world, but I suspect those of us who do enjoy the charms of Asia guys are in a very considerable minority.

Like all the old timers I find Thailand is nothing like the gay paradise it once was a few decades ago. But then times change and it seems most gay destinations have also changed, some quite dramatically - and not for the better. I still enjoy Thailand and it still offers a lot to enjoy. Hopefully it will continue to do so, but over the longer term I am not optimistic. The elite and their allies will see to that.

[arsenal]

Moss Side, Coalville and Coatbridge also qualify as gay paradises under stevie's narrow criteria. Don't let him arrange your stag do.

[Manforallseasons]

….

[dinagam]

That serpent looks like a transvestite.
Now this one below is surely a better specimen.

[latintopxxx]

as long as the authorities maintain a safe enviornmnet and allow anyone with enough cash to buy companionship and more.....it will remain a "gay" paradise...or what I refer to "gay wonderland".

[Khor tose]

Love!

Shame on you using words most of these readers either don't understand or consider prejorative.

[Gaybutton]

Maybe Thailand isn't currently the gay paradise as it used to be, but for gay holiday makers if there is somewhere better than Thailand to go these days, where would that be?

I don't even factor in Thailand's Constitutional Court prohibiting same-sex marriage. Does that come as any surprise? How is that any different from the way it's always been in Thailand, including the golden years of the bar scene? Although it's nice to find out that according to the court now we're all a different species.

I wonder if they have named our species yet. Maybe it will be Homo suckfuckus. I could live with that. Or maybe the previously named species will take on a slightly different meaning - Homo erectus. Maybe we'll even get special consideration and protection if we are declared an endangered species . . .

[Armando]

Maybe Thailand isn't currently the gay paradise as it used to be, but for gay holiday makers if there is somewhere better than Thailand to go these days, where would that be?
That really seems to be a comment from someone who has not travelled much in search of other places which could also be called a gay paradise. What about the South American cities which many rave about? Closer to Thailand, what about Tokyo? What about Taipei? What about some of the islands in the Philippines? If you know where to go, the gay tourist can have a great time. There are certainly loads of willing local guys.

What about Singapore? This may seem an odd choice given the colonial A377 article in the criminal code. But the government has said it will not use it and seems to have stuck to its word. There are still gay bars, gay saunas, great cruising and a lot more - although obviously pricier than Thailand.

The main difference between these places and Thailand seems to be a lack of gay gogo bars. But then we have no idea for how much longer these bars are likely to operate. Hopefully many more years, but we have seen how so much of the gay scene has gone way downhill in the last decade or even more. The gay scene in Chiang Mai is a mere shadow of its former self. Phuket is worse. Unless you stick to Bangkok and Pattaya you are certainly not in any form of gay paradise. Even in Bangkok quite a few central saunas and massage spas have closed for good, including the much missed Babylon. So gay tourists have to travel further out to find the smorgasbord of gay activities in which they could previously indulge in the city centre.

[Gaybutton]

That really seems to be a comment from someone who has not travelled much in search of other places which could also be called a gay paradise.

That is true. It has been many years since I have been to any of the places you mentioned. But I didn't ask whether there are other places for gays to go. I asked if anyone knows of a place better than Thailand to go.

If there is such a place, I'd like to know where and what about it makes it better than Thailand.

[goji]

I've not yet seen a credible alternative to Thailand.

The boys on the apps in The Philippines are very good and have more modest financial requirements. However, the bars are spread all over the place, are reportedly expensive and the pictures imply they are full of muscle guys. So I didn't bother with the bars.

Cambodia has some nice lads and several bars, but only Toolbox is one I'd be keen to return to.

Yangon has some very nice massage services. However, things like food and hotels are of a far lower standard than in Thailand.

[vnman]

The boys on the apps in The Philippines are very good and have more modest financial requirements. However, the bars are spread all over the place, are reportedly expensive and the pictures imply they are full of muscle guys. So I didn't bother with the bars.


Metro Manila has a few spots for the gay crowd that sadly have diminished to single venues. Metro Manila has many cities and traffic is horrible, even at night time. But if you look at Ortigas, Cubao and Quezon City in General, you see that the gay venues there are relatively near each other. You just have to see it in the context of how big the Metro area is. The days that there were 4 or 5 places within 50 square meters is no longer.

I lived in the Philippines for a few years and I can tell you that the bars are overflowing with twinkies. You just need to go to the right places and that can be a problem to find if you are only in town for a week. For example, you could go to O bar in Ortigas, pay an arm and a leg and find the more privileged crowd. Or you could drive a little further and go to Cubao. There used to be a few places within a few meters from each other, now only Starlite might be left. A place with cheap beer, cheap decore, cringe-worthy shows, but full with cute and willing twinks.

Disclaimer: it's been a few years since I've been in the Philippines.

Let me add that the Philippines couldn't even get close to a Thai experience, but I guess it is all about what you are looking for.

[Manforallseasons]

Shame on you using words most of these readers either don't understand or consider prejorative.

Love is like hemorrhoids it comes and goes.

[Oliver2]

In comparing Thailand with other countries, there are some questions that need answering.

Can I walk with my boyfriend safely in cities and towns without being stared at, either in surprise or hostility?
Will hotels accept us and restaurants serve us with pleasure?
Have gay people anything to fear regarding their sexuality from policemen?
Are there sections of cities- even a few roads- which can be described as gay?

There are certainly places to which I have been attracted as a gay visitor, but some of them (specifically the non-Asian ones) seem unlikely to answer these questions positively.

And if I may throw in a more controversial observation, are the guys on the scene predominantly "gay for pay"? If so, I wouldn't be interested.

[Manforallseasons]

And if I may throw in a more controversial observation, are the guys on the scene predominantly "gay for pay"? If so, I wouldn't be interested.

“Gay for pay” you honestly believe a boy 30+ your junior is anxious to do to bed with you? Stop fooling yourself, regardless of what you want to believe you are simply a friend with benefits.

[Oliver2]

OMG! surely all those cute twinks who entertained me, a balding middle-aged guy, twenty years ago were doing it out of lust, not for the money? Say it ain't so, Joe!

[mr giggles]

Love is like hemorrhoids it comes and goes.

What is the difference between true love and Herpes?
Only one lasts for ever
:D

[vnman]

“Gay for pay” you honestly believe a boy 30+ your junior is anxious to do to bed with you? Stop fooling yourself, regardless of what you want to believe you are simply a friend with benefits.

In general, you might be right, but I'm guessing you've been looking in gogo bars and apps around Thailand. There is a whole wide world out there with boys interested in a wide range of men. You not experiencing this doesn't mean it does not exist. It just means that you didn't get any.

[arsenal]

In free verses paid, free is rarely as good. Not just in sex but in everything.

[bkkguy]

I asked if anyone knows of a place better than Thailand to go.

If there is such a place, I'd like to know where and what about it makes it better than Thailand.

better means many different things to different people so anyone else's answer may not seem better to you

a lot of the discussion here seems to include the availability of cheap commercial sex as a requisite for a "gay paradise" but is that really still the primary selection criteria for gay tourists these days?

I am not that much of a beach person but I find it hard to believe that among all of the visitors to this forum none have found a better gay beach community than Jomtien anywhere else in the world

while there are a selection of restaurants in Pattaya or Bangkok that I like, even I have found a wider selection of restaurants in many European and other Asian cities that are better, still reasonably priced and either gay operated or comfortable for a gay couple or single tourist to enjoy in citiesI have visited like London, Amsterdam, Paris, Barcelona, Taipei, Singapore, etc


Can I walk with my boyfriend safely in cities and towns without being stared at, either in surprise or hostility?

in Thailand this is because of tolerance or fake Thai smiles at best, certainly not acceptance, and yes it is better than being poofter bashed but in many areas in many European and Asian cities this is just not an issue


Are there sections of cities- even a few roads- which can be described as gay?

having a few gay venues in easy walking distance may be a convenience, but with decent transport options do we really need gay ghettos any more?


And if I may throw in a more controversial observation, are the guys on the scene predominantly "gay for pay"? If so, I wouldn't be interested.

so you would not recommend Thailand to first time visitors now?

I have lived in Bangkok, and visited Pattaya regularly, for the past 25 years, and in that time have visited, once or a few times, many European and Asian cities, and while I still think Bangkok is a great city to live in - still relatively cheap, lots of entertainment and restaurant choices, easy to travel from, easy to get a long term stay (despite Immigration's best efforts), I have never considered it a "gay paradise" just because of the (no longer that cheap) commercial sex!

[Gaybutton]

anyone else's answer may not seem better to you

Especially yours. Now, if you're through with your long-winded lecture, are you going to answer my question and tell me of a place better than Thailand for gays to go - no matter whose idea of 'better' might be?

[Nirish guy]

Especially yours. Now, if you're through with your long-winded lecture, are you going to answer my question and tell me of a place better than Thailand for gays to go - no matter whose idea of 'better' might be?

He DID answer you question - i.e to answer is successfully it would be important (for you) to define what "better than for gays ACTUALLY meant" as as he said for one person that could mean great beaches whereas for others great city bars and high end busy gay saunas with men in them - as opposed to lack lustre bars with watered down alcohol and young boy* ( over 18 but barely sometimes) prostitutes.

So without a definition of what makes a "great gay holiday resort" its' impossible to start naming ANY of them better than any others and that was was BBGUY was clearly saying too.

[francois]

OMG! surely all those cute twinks who entertained me, a balding middle-aged guy, twenty years ago were doing it out of lust, not for the money? Say it ain't so, Joe!
It ain't so, Oliver! Strangely, there are lads who do like to do it with older men, not just middle-aged but old-aged.

[StevieWonders]

It seems I was absolutely right - “for retirees in Pattaya who desire an unending supply of cheap male prostitutes” Thailand is indeed a gay paradise (and theirs is the only perspective that matters)

[Gaybutton]

It seems I was absolutely right - “for retirees in Pattaya who desire an unending supply of cheap male prostitutes” Thailand is indeed a gay paradise

And that's bad?



He DID answer you question

Not without naming somewhere he didn't. Let him define what 'better' means to him and then tell us where that might be.

I have zero interest in that kind of nitpicking. If he can't figure out that I meant a general question, that's his problem. If there is somewhere any board members would rather go than Thailand, all I'm asking is where that would be and why.

If 'better' really has to be defined, then whoever posts about somewhere better is the one who tells us where and why it's better - which obviously would be his own definition of 'better'.

[Nirish guy]

That’s a ridiculous premise as of course if his preferences were different to yours you would never understand why he or anyone else would think somewhere else might be better yet less agree with him about that then.

All you can say is that YOU ( I presume) think Pattaya is the best gay place in the world etc, many people would I’m sure disagree with that statement for many different reasons. That doesn’t make you wrong when based on your preferences but it does make it wrong to others perhaps when based on their preferences. Surely you understand that.

I’m answer to your question though I would rate Sitges in Spain as “up there” as one of my most enjoyable places and I know many other gay men would say the same. That being for the lovely beach, great food, good gay bars and many hot guys both young and older.

But again that’s based on my wanting that type of holiday, if I wanted merely young cute Asian prostitutes and a bit of beach etc then Pattaya is up there for that (usually). It’s all a case of preferences and horses for courses so you can’t honestly expect an all encompassing answer to such a limited question.

[StevieWonders]

And that's bad?On the contrary it confirms my view that there’s no single idea of what it means to be “gay” (if anything) and in particular it gives the lie to the whole concept of an “LGBT etcetera community”

[Gaybutton]

All you can say is that YOU ( I presume) think Pattaya is the best gay place in the world

To answer my question it doesn't matter what I think. I'm glad you mentioned a specific place. With all the sniping back and forth, you gave your answer to my question. I hope that will get some others to also let us know where and why.

I asked a very simple question and some are trying to make much more out of it and make it complicated. Sorry, I'm not going to play or get sucked in to any further discussion about it - whether you're anal retentive or not. If you don't want to answer the question, then don't answer the question.

[Armando]

In comparing Thailand with other countries, there are some questions that need answering.

Can I walk with my boyfriend safely in cities and towns without being stared at, either in surprise or hostility?
Will hotels accept us and restaurants serve us with pleasure?
Have gay people anything to fear regarding their sexuality from policemen?
Are there sections of cities- even a few roads- which can be described as gay?

There are certainly places to which I have been attracted as a gay visitor, but some of them (specifically the non-Asian ones) seem unlikely to answer these questions positively.

And if I may throw in a more controversial observation, are the guys on the scene predominantly "gay for pay"? If so, I wouldn't be interested.
In Tokyo, Taipei and Singapore the answers are definitely Yes, Yes, No, Yes. Over quite a few years I can count the number of gay for play requests on the apps on one hand. Even holding hands with your boyfriend in Singapore is unlikely to result in anything more than an occasional glance from one of the older generation.

I think the main issue is that the cities I have mentioned are all a bit more expensive than Thailand. Also weather. Apart from Singapore, you will be in cities with real seasons, and in Tokyo it can be really cold in winter. Naturally you can find cheaper hotels and eateries everywhere if you do enough checking or ask someone with experience of the cities. There is even an all gay hotel in Taipei which will welcome you with open arms.

https://gshotel.business.site

[Oliver2]

Yes; Asian cultural attitudes are very different to those in, for example, South America. A combination of conservative Christian beliefs and machismo are not likely to be as tolerant of non-conforming sexualities, though countries like pre-Bolsonaro Brazil, Chavez's Venezuela and Uruguay were encouraged by left-wing governments to be more open, perhaps partly due to the power of the Catholic Church being diminished.

[Nirish guy]

Especially yours. Now, if you're through with your long-winded lecture, are you going to answer my question and tell me of a place better ?

And again in case you missed it GB Bkkguy DID answer your question - you just perhaps failed to read his reply to you correctly it or just didn't wish to take his point, but he DID answer and reply, both with several locations other tha Thailand and also the reason he thought them "better' in regard to what HE found to be one of the metrics he used when "scoring" a city when he said to you.......

"I have found a wider selection of restaurants in many European and other Asian cities that are better, still reasonably priced and either gay operated or comfortable for a gay couple or single tourist to enjoy in citiesI have visited like London, Amsterdam, Paris, Barcelona, Taipei, Singapore"

[Gaybutton]

And again in case you missed it GB Bkkguy DID answer your question

I missed nothing. Do you think posting a string of city names answers my question? It doesn't.

And my question included "I'd like to know where and what about it makes it better than Thailand."

Where's the part where he explains what makes any of those places better than Thailand? Go ahead and support him if you want to, but his responses are no answer. It's nothing more than his usual adversarial posting. I'm surprised you don't see that.

[Nirish guy]

Actually I only see one person being adversarial on this thread.......you asked for places - he gave you places, you asked why he told you why ( in his case the restauants) - that was his answer, the fact you dont like or accept that answer is more just down to you perhaps.

[goji]

There have been various alternative suggestions posted.

Sitges
I've been there several times, although never for holiday. Whilst the party scene is good, all the guys on Grindr are big and hairy. Not my type at all. Also it's likely to be cold in December.

Tokyo
A very interesting city, with a lively gay scene and cute guys. To actually get one in bed requires either searching for one who likes a mature westerner, or paying out considerably more than in Thailand. If the latter, good service is assured.

Singapore
The naked night at the sauna almost justifies the trip on it's own. If such places are allowed to open with COVID. After that, finding a cute and willing boy can be much harder work than in Thailand.

Also, in all 3 of these locations, living is far more expensive than Thailand. If I had to choose one of these 3 for the gay scene, it would be Tokyo.

[Gaybutton]

If I had to choose one of these 3 for the gay scene, it would be Tokyo.

Thank you. Now we're getting somewhere. You're giving details. I don't think you see these places as better than Thailand, though - just different.

[Armando]

having a few gay venues in easy walking distance may be a convenience, but with decent transport options do we really need gay ghettos any more?
My answer to that question is a definite 'yes'. Having a group of gay venues in very close proximity creates a special vibe that you just do not get if those venues require transport between them. That's why Soi Twilight worked, why Silom Soi 4 works, why Shinjuku ni-chome works, why the Red House in Taipei works.

[Armando]

Thank you. Now we're getting somewhere. You're giving details. I don't think you see these places as better than Thailand, though - just different.
Do you seriously believe that nowhere can be better than Thailand? Of course they can! It's not even a subject for discussion. It all depends on what you are looking for. Money boys, gogo bars if they ever open before as they used to with the boys in skimpy briefs, beer bars, gay saunas, a beach at Pattaya (with filthy water), nice weather most of the year and so on can be found in Thailand. You are right that other cities and countries are different. So what's new? I know older people who live in the cities i have mentioned and who would never dream of moving to Thailand.

The difference as I and others have pointed out is that you need a bit more cash in the other cities I listed. Not necessarily much, though. It depends on your circumstances and desires. Eating out and transport in those cities can easily be extremely inexpensive. Someone into pay for play probably spends 6,000 baht a week or more on offs and tips. Those who are not into pay for play - not many here it seems but a lot in the general gay population - can then put most of that cash to put toward probably their highest expense - rent. There are plenty of boys in the gay bars and on the apps willing to hook up with an older foreigner and often even transport is not requested.

It merely depends on what you are looking for and what you have experienced. If you have not been out of Thailand for decades, how can you possibly tell?

[goji]

Do you seriously believe that nowhere can be better than Thailand?

That's not what Gaybutton said or even implied.

In response to my post on some other destinations, he said "I don't think you see these places as better than Thailand".
Which happens to be a correct interpretation. I don't see those other places as better than Thailand and I've been to all 3. Singapore twice and far more often to Tokyo and Sitges, although for business purposes not holidays.
If my bank balance was nearer to that of Bill Gates, I might just visit Japan as well as Thailand on a regular basis, but Thailand will remain first choice.

[Gaybutton]

Do you seriously believe that nowhere can be better than Thailand?
Do you seriously believe I said any such thing? If I did, please post the quote that makes you to think so.

[vnman]

Do you seriously believe I said any such thing? If I did, please post the quote that makes you to think so.


I don't think you see these places as better than Thailand, though - just different.

I think that it's a weird assumption to make. Of course, these places are different. They can still be seen as better than Thailand. When someone tells me he prefers one over the other, I assume it's because he thinks it's better.

[StevieWonders]

Do you seriously believe I said any such thing? If I did, please post the quote that makes you to think so. Come along, ladies, handbags at 10 paces 11935

[arsenal]

If nothing else please lose the idea that London, Paris, Amsterdam etc are even on the same page or even in the same book as Thailand with regards to cost of living.

[a447]

If I leave out the cost of hiring guys for fun, everything else in Tokyo is much cheaper than where I live and only a little more expensive than Bangkok.

High-end hotels in Tokyo are very expensive but there are lots of cheap business hotels scattered all over Tokyo if you don't want to spend the money.

I stayed at the City Hotel Lonestar, which is situated right in the middle of Shinjuku 2-chome. The room was small - not unusual for Japan - but more than adequate. I forget what I paid but probably around the same as the Tarntawan.

There's something for everybody; you just have to know where to look.

[arsenal]

"The room was small - not unusual for Japan"

You're not kidding. Last time there I could make a cup of tea without getting out of bed. I felt like Gulliver.

[vnman]

If I leave out the cost of hiring guys for fun, everything else in Tokyo is much cheaper than where I live and only a little more expensive than Bangkok.

High-end hotels in Tokyo are very expensive but there are lots of cheap business hotels scattered all over Tokyo if you don't want to spend the money.

I stayed at the City Hotel Lonestar, which is situated right in the middle of Shinjuku 2-chome. The room was small - not unusual for Japan - but more than adequate. I forget what I paid but probably around the same as the Tarntawan.

There's something for everybody; you just have to know where to look.

I was shocked at how affordable Tokyo actually was. Even Tokyo Kids had very reasonable prices... considering the country. I dare say that I suspect an adventure with a guy from Jupiter in Bangkok would set you back more.

[goji]

I stayed at the City Hotel Lonestar, which is situated right in the middle of Shinjuku 2-chome. The room was small - not unusual for Japan - but more than adequate. I forget what I paid but probably around the same as the Tarntawan.



I once stayed there. I could lie on the bed and touch all 4 walls simultaneously. One attraction was lads gathering on the railings across the road, which was one reason why I selected this hotel. The place has rebranded and is available for about 1800 Baht. Better is the nearby and newer Tokyu for slightly more at present. I think these are depressed COVID prices, as I remember considerably higher prices the last time I thought about it.

Also, of course the prices for "Tokyo Kids" are not unreasonable for Japan, but 15,000 yen for a drink and an hour with a lad is still 4500 Baht. So an extended holiday could be expensive. The service from their lads is first class and, despite the name, they are over 18.

Also, whilst I have been out cycling in shorts and a T-shirt in December, Tokyo is far colder than Thailand at this time of year.

I once managed to negotiate a deal with a freelancer entirely in Japanese, which is just about the only time I managed that with any transaction there.
Admittedly when I asked his name, he said Masashi and I misheard it as massage, so I skipped all the subtlety and asked how much ?

The other point is exchange rate fluctuation. At the current level of 150 JPY to the pound, I could consider a visit. However, the best rate in the 21st century is more than double the worst, so it has been both good value and expensive during that time.

[Armando]

If I leave out the cost of hiring guys for fun, everything else in Tokyo is much cheaper than where I live and only a little more expensive than Bangkok.

High-end hotels in Tokyo are very expensive but there are lots of cheap business hotels scattered all over Tokyo if you don't want to spend the money.

I stayed at the City Hotel Lonestar, which is situated right in the middle of Shinjuku 2-chome. The room was small - not unusual for Japan - but more than adequate. I forget what I paid but probably around the same as the Tarntawan.

There's something for everybody; you just have to know where to look.
Totally agree. I have never stayed at the Lonestar (or whatever its new name is) simply because I want to be a bit closer to Shinjuku station for ease of travelling around. I'll usually pay a little more to get a bigger room. I check various sites for the best deals and can usually get away with around 2,500 - 3,000 baht for B&B. That gets me a larger bed and never a problem with joiners.

Sure that's more than I'd generally pay in Thailand. On the other hand, almost everyone here talks about pay for play. In Tokyo there are plenty of alluring guys on the apps and in some of the bars and saunas perfectly happy to spend time with you at no cost. Why pay if it's not necessary, unless all you want is one of the really cute twinks from the host sites?

If I had not already bought my apartment in Bangkok. I'd happily stay in Tokyo or Taipei in preference to Bangkok. Bother cities have much to recommend them apart just from boys. So I regard both as a gay paradise. I'm a bit less enthusiastic of my other city - Singapore. I love it and I love the guys there, but it's just too cramped for my liking, and more expensive.

[a447]

Bother cities have much to recommend them apart just from boys. So I regard both as a gay paradise.

That's the one thing missing in Thailand, especially in Pattaya - things to do during the day after you have had your afternoon "fun". Tokyo can keep you occupied all day and all night if you want it to. I've sometimes taken a guy out for the day and we just go eating, shopping or hop on the train to go somewhere together.

My room at the Lonestar, whilst small, never felt uncomfortably cramped. In any case, it was only used for sleeping as joiners were not allowed.

If I'm bringing a guy back I want a larger room with a big shower in a hotel in the centre of the action. In that regard the Tarntawan was excellent. It wasn't fancy but it served is purpose.

The Japanese guys are way more expensive than in Thailand but you get superior service. It's a case of getting what you pay for, I guess.

But I'm a sucker, so to speak, for brown skin and big Isaan cocks, and I can only get them in Thailand. So for me, Thailand is indeed "still a gay paradise."

[mr giggles]

That’s a ridiculous premise as of course if his preferences were different to yours you would never understand why he or anyone else would think somewhere else might be better yet less agree with him about that then.

All you can say is that YOU ( I presume) think Pattaya is the best gay place in the world etc, many people would I’m sure disagree with that statement for many different reasons. That doesn’t make you wrong when based on your preferences but it does make it wrong to others perhaps when based on their preferences. Surely you understand that. ...


Again, the unedifying spectacle of 2 old queens bashing each other with lilies....

[Gaybutton]

Again, the unedifying spectacle of 2 old queens bashing each other with lilies....

I committed a terrible crime. I asked where might somewhere better than Thailand be found and what about it makes it better. I should have known that would touch off a maelstrom . . .

[mr giggles]

I committed a terrible crime. I asked where might somewhere better than Thailand be found and what about it makes it better. I should have known that would touch off a maelstrom . . .

How very dare you...
:D

[christianpfc]

I have travelled SEAsia extensively (only Philippines are missing) and found Thailand the best overall. Good food, good public transport, a lot to see and to do, easy to stay long-time. Here comparison between countries:

To me, Lao is just like rural Thailand, with the inconvenience of needing a visa and changing money. No gay bars, saunas, massage that I know of.

Cambodia poor infrastructure and food. Boys available online, sauna, massage, but no gogo bars.

Myanmar good public transport, a lot to see and do, boys in massage, but no sauna and gogo bars. But difficult to stay long-term as a tourist.

Vietnam good public transport, a lot to see and do, boys in massage and sauna, but no gogo bars.

Boy-wise (looks and character) my preferences are as follow: (Myanmar similar to Cambodia) better than (Thailand similar to Lao) better than (Vietnam similar to Philppines based on small samples).

Taiwan to cold in winter, and not so much luck with boys online. But great saunas, the best I have been to.

Singapore to small for me. Even Cambodia and Taiwan to small to live and travel there for years.

Indonesia and Malaysia overall okay, but no compelling reason to return since my last trips around 2016.

Sep2020 I ventured to Brazil and it's an interesting place and I will be back and extend to Colombia and Mexico. Problem is that little to no English is spoken and most boys are hairy which I don't like at all.

I like dark skinned boys, warm weather, cheap living, therefor all my travel is in subtropical to tropical countries. I have little to no interest in Japan, South Korea, Spain for boys. I have no interest in beaches (unless there are boys in swimwear to ogle at, but I would rather ogle at boys in gogo bars than on beaches), if beaches are important for you, other countries will come out on top of our list.

But back to the gay part: Thailand has more (massage and sauna and gogo bars) and easier accessible (i.e. geared to foreigners) than any other country I have visited.

[vnman]

Boy-wise (looks and character) my preferences are as follow: (Myanmar similar to Cambodia) better than (Thailand similar to Lao) better than (Vietnam similar to Philppines based on small samples).


Just to be sure, are you comparing Vietnamese with Filipinos? Maybe you are just saying that you prefer them the same. It's all a matter of taste I guess, but Vietnam has a big lead on the rest of Asia if you ask me. I just love how white some of them are without being "white," a big contrast with Filipinos.



Taiwan to cold in winter, and not so much luck with boys online. But great saunas, the best I have been to.


It has been a few years but I remember how excited you were about Taiwanese boys. I seriously thought you would never come back to Thailand. I think that you were most excited about the fact that the boys actually wanted you and not your money. Did that change?

I have a friend who also loves Taiwan and never pays to play. Your previous experience sounded very familiar with his.



I ventured to Brazil and it's an interesting place and I will be back and extend to Colombia and Mexico. Problem is that little to no English is spoken and most boys are hairy which I don't like at all.


English is indeed not spoken a lot in in Colombia and Mexico, but I don't find the boys overly hairy. Many Asians are genetically (if that is your thing) blessed with little to no body hair. I was surprised that many Japanese are very hairy, but they are not on your shortlist anyway.

[goji]

Considering the old saying that "a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush", I'm not sure if the looks of Vietnamese matter.

As far as I can remember, the last time I had a Vietnamese lad in bed was about 12 years ago. With a population of ten times that of Laos, the shags per capita score is several orders of magnitude lower.

[christianpfc]

Just to be sure, are you comparing Vietnamese with Filipinos?...I just love how white some of them are without being "white," a big contrast with Filipinos.
Yes, by performance/activity in bed, based on small sample, they are comparable and at the end of my list. I like brown skin, and white skin is one thing again Vietnamese in my books.



It has been a few years but I remember how excited you were about Taiwanese boys. I seriously thought you would never come back to Thailand. I think that you were most excited about the fact that the boys actually wanted you and not your money. Did that change?
When I went to Taiwan for short trips (1 week), the sauna was (and still is, as of last visit 2019) awesome with success rates 5 times higher than in Thailand. But that did not translate to success in online dating (in 3 months in Taiwan in 2018 I got 3 boys to my room, vs. 7 days in Yangon 7 boys). It must have been a cultural difference (group activity in sauna in Taiwan, whereas in Thailand coupled would retreat to rooms) and not interest in me/my body. I will still go to Taiwan for general holiday once that is possible, but don't expect much gay activity. At the moment I have one boy waiting for my return to Taiwan (based on a 3 months stay in 2018) vs. 3 boys in Myanmar (based on 3 x 1 week in 2018 and 2019).

Back to OP. A gay paradise for who?

Tourists. Largest choice of gay venues of all kind (beer bars, gogo bars, saunas, massage) of the world? For free or for pay, something for everyone.

Locals. Out of the hundreds of gays I have met, two are not out to their family for fear of lack of acceptance. But in general, everyone can do with everyone (straight, gay, ladyboy, lifestock) without fear of social stigma.

Gay marriage is a Western concept? For dating purposes, I would rather be in Thailand without gay marriage than in Germany with gay marriage.

[cdnmatt]

Why would they get married at all?

So the poorer spouse can divorce the rich one and become financially well off, of course.

[pong]

There are however quite a few M-M couples living as steady married couple in most places in TH. Its just they cannot get all the legal rights as M-W may get.
As such this is not really that much different from most other neighbour Buddist countries in South-East Asia.