Chonburi Immigration Closed Nov 5 - 10

[Dodger]

They say the closure is due to widespread covid-19.

I choked when I read that one.

https://pattayaone.news/chonburi-immigration-closed/

[Manforallseasons]

The indoor wet market on Pattaya Tai across from Wat Chai has also been closed and is totally cleared out because of the spread of Covid.

[Manforallseasons]

Immigration, Tukcom, the wet market across from Wat Chai all tainted with Covid doesn’t bode well for the governor to change the restrictions anytime soon. I get why the bars and Gogos remain closed but I still can’t figure why alcoholic beverages are banned from Pattaya restaurants?

[gerefan2]

How often do Tourists visit Immigration (once?) ...Tukcom (once and only ever once!) ....the Wet Market (never).
Now often do Thais visit Immigration (never?).......Tukcom (rarely, if ever)...the wet market (maybe sometimes).

Should have minimal effect on removing restrictions, but TiT.

[francois]

I frequently visit TukCom; the Wet Market; see many Thais at TukCom; and the Wet Market is busy with Thais; however I never visit Immigration. All depends on where you live and your visa classification such as short time or long term (retirement).

[Brad the Impala]

]I still can’t figure why alcoholic beverages are banned from Pattaya restaurants?

Not that I have any experience of this but I have heard that amounts of alcohol can loosen inhibitions and lose to loss of self control. Which might lead to forgetting Covid precautions.

Restrictions on alcohol consumption have been a part of many countries covid protocols.

[Dodger]

Immigration, Tukcom, the wet market across from Wat Chai all tainted with Covid doesn’t bode well for the governor to change the restrictions anytime soon. I get why the bars and Gogos remain closed but I still can’t figure why alcoholic beverages are banned from Pattaya restaurants?

Right or wrong, the reason for this (which was published somewhere a month or so ago) is because the Ministers and/or CCSA felt that alcohol consumption could cause some to forget about the covid safety protocols (gee, I wonder why) and start violating rules. If bars are closed, and restaurants are the only place where people can drink, they could soon become clusters of drunks which nobody wants.

They're right on the money as far as I'm concerned.

Just look at what's happening now, even with the alcohol bans in place.

It appears there's been a covid outbreak in Pattaya but there's no mention of it in the news (that I can see), with the exception of these stand-alone releases about Tukcom, Immigration, and Wat Chai Market closures.

I wonder what's keeping them from releasing the full story (tongue in cheek)?

[Gaybutton]

alcohol consumption could cause some to forget about the covid safety protocols (gee, I wonder why) and start violating rules.

I see that as absurd reasoning. By that reasoning you might as well ban driving cars because that could cause some to forget safety protocols and provoke road rage incidents.

Instead of assuming what alcohol consumption in restaurants could cause, how about giving it a probationary try for a week and see what it does cause. If all is well, let the restaurants continue serving alcohol. If what they fear really does happen, which personally I doubt, then the alcohol ban goes right back into effect.

I really get annoyed at punishing everybody for what they believe a few might do - and nobody even has done.

[Dodger]

.

Instead of assuming what alcohol consumption in restaurants could cause, how about giving it a probationary try for a week and see what it does cause. If all is well, let the restaurants continue serving alcohol. If what they fear really does happen, which personally I doubt, then the alcohol ban goes right back into effect.

Would you suggest they do this test during, or after the apparent outbreak Pattaya is faced with right now?

[Dodger]

.

Restrictions on alcohol consumption have been a part of many countries covid protocols.

Apparently so, and the article below explains some of the rationale for this:

https://www.oecd.org/coronavirus/policy-responses/the-effect-of-covid-19-on-alcohol-consumption-and-policy-responses-to-prevent-harmful-alcohol-consumption-53890024/

[Gaybutton]

Would you suggest they do this test during, or after the apparent outbreak Pattaya is faced with right now?

I wouldn't suggest either. I don't see how that has anything to do with it. What does having a drink in a restaurant have to do with the spread of Covid? Do you know of any restaurants - alcohol or not - where Covid was traced to? I don't.

Should we close down all the restaurants again to help prevent the spread of disease? If not and the restaurants can be open to serve food, what's the problem about serving liquor too?

[goji]

Do you know of any restaurants - alcohol or not - where Covid was traced to? I don't.

From what I see, other than a few well publicized cases like the fish markets, Thailand has tended not to publish details of tracing of covid infections. So we can't use that to decide what's high risk or not.

What I do know is there is at least one report from the US where they identified restaurants as a common place for covid transmission.

Also, common sense should tell us that restaurants are much higher risk than other shops, as people have to take their masks off to eat.

However, I do agree that allowing alcohol consumption should not make much difference, other than perhaps encouraging people to remain in the restaurant for longer.
I don't really agree with the repressive anti-alcohol attitude that the Thai government seems to have, but I still choose to visit the country. It's not yet like Iran.

[Gaybutton]

From what I see, other than a few well publicized cases like the fish markets, Thailand has tended not to publish details of tracing of covid infections.

That is not accurate. Many publications, such as the Pattaya News, would consistently publish reports of where and when Covid cases turned up, including just yesterday (see: https://thepattayanews.com/2021/11/06/sattahip-markets-warn-people-who-visited-in-relation-to-chonburi-confirmed-covid-19-cases/ ) so that anyone who had been to these places could start monitoring themselves.

Not one of these reports traced any cases to restaurants. Of course, to be fair, for a long time the restaurants were all closed. But before they were closed and after they reopened, I am not aware of any cases, anywhere in Pattaya or even anywhere in Thailand, that were traced back to restaurants.

I disagree with your argument that taking off masks in restaurants makes them more dangerous. Most of the recent cases, at least around Pattaya, came from migrant worker camps. You don't see too many of those people eating in restaurants, at least none that I frequent. But again, I don't see how serving alcohol is any more dangerous than not serving alcohol.

If there really is justification for allowing restaurants in both Phuket and Bangkok to serve alcohol, but not Pattaya - none of the arguments I've seen trying to justify it have swayed my opinion.

[Brad the Impala]

Do you know of any restaurants - alcohol or not - where Covid was traced to? I don't.



It's long been established that eating out in restaurants has a significant covid transmission risk.

See this article from last year.


Since the pandemic began, evidence has mounted suggesting that dining out in restaurants — especially indoors — is among the riskiest activities. In September, a study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found that adults with Covid-19 were twice as likely to have dined out in a restaurant in the two weeks prior to their infection.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2020/12/15/this-is-how-quickly-covid-19-can-spread-in-a-restaurant-per-new-study/

[Dodger]

.

But again, I don't see how serving alcohol is any more dangerous than not serving alcohol.

If there really is justification for allowing restaurants in both Phuket and Bangkok to serve alcohol, but not Pattaya - none of the arguments I've seen trying to justify it have swayed my opinion.

Should we close down all the restaurants again to help prevent the spread of disease?

You've made it abundantly clear that you're just not getting it.

Maybe they will have to close restaurants again...who knows. SERIOUS TIMES.

Just be glad that you're not the one who has to be making these decisions.

[Gaybutton]

You've made it abundantly clear that you're just not getting it.

Is that so? Disagreeing with you means I'm not getting it? Ok. Now I understand. In order to get it, I have to agree with you. You're the one who really knows how things should be.

Both Phuket and Bangkok are allowing alcohol to be served in restaurants. I have seen no reports that any Covid cases at all have anything whatsoever to do with those restaurants. Why would it be any different in Pattaya?

Now tell me what evidence you have, beyond personal opinion, that serving alcohol in a Pattaya restaurant is likely to spread Covid. Then maybe I'll get it.

[Dodger]

Now tell me what evidence you have, beyond personal opinion, that serving alcohol in a Pattaya restaurant is likely to spread Covid. Then maybe I'll get it.

Maybe you'd like to share the evidence you have that serving alcohol in Pattaya right now WON'T contribute to the spread of the virus.

Better yet, if you have this evidence, and aren't just saying these things as a matter of opinion, I'm sure the Thai Government...the CCSA Board Members...Thailand's Tourist and Sports Authorities, and the entire population of Pattaya would be delighted in seeing this as well.

Every country in the world is faced with the same set of challenges right now. We're not alone. Many expats over here, including myself, accept these inconveniences, as unpleasant as are. When it's safe to lift these restrictions we can all celebrate, but until then, you only have one choice, and that's to either accept the controls (or safeguards) that Thailand is putting in place, or move to another country.

[Manforallseasons]

The argument to serve alcohol in restaurants won’t be resolved here as it makes as much sense as the times you are allowed to buy alcohol in stores, if the Chonburi Governor won’t listen to the Thai business interests in Pattaya he sure as hell could care less what foreigners think!

[Gaybutton]

Maybe you'd like to share the evidence you have that serving alcohol in Pattaya right now WON'T contribute to the spread of the virus.
Oh come on, Dodger. Do you really think you're going to get away with trying that method of turning the tables on me? Perhaps you would also like me to share evidence that serving food in Pattaya right now also won't contribute to the spread of the virus. I can't even provide evidence that peeing in a Big-C urinal won't contribute to the spread of the virus.

As difficult as it is to prove a negative, the evidence you ask me to share is there has been no such reports coming out of Phuket or Bangkok. Not a single case of Covid has been reported to have happened as a result of serving alcohol in a restaurant. If there were, the CCSA would most likely revoke permission to serve alcohol. I'm still waiting for you to explain why Pattaya should be any different.

None of this, by the way, affects me personally. I'm not a drinker, especially in restaurants. My idea of a drink is ordering soda water.

I sincerely apologize for this comparison. I really do, but I couldn't think of anything that better illustrates it: You come across, at least to me, just like a Trump supporter who is convinced Trump is right about his stolen election claims, even without any supporting evidence whatsoever. You have absolutely nothing - no evidence of any kind - to support your position, but I'm the one who doesn't get it? Ok, then I must be the one not getting it . . .

And, by the way, I have also seen no evidence from "the Thai Government...the CCSA Board Members...Thailand's Tourist and Sports Authorities" or any other source that serving alcohol in restaurants will lead, or even may lead, to the further spread of Covid. Have you seen any? If you have, I would appreciate a post showing their evidence. If I turn out to be wrong, I will admit it.



if the Chonburi Governor won’t listen to the Thai business interests in Pattaya he sure as hell could care less what foreigners think!
I agree. In my opinion that's part of the problem. Once they've made up their minds, there is no persuading them to even contemplate the idea that they might be wrong.

Hey, that sounds like me. Just ask Dodger . . .

[Dodger]

......And, by the way, I have also seen no evidence from "the Thai Government...the CCSA Board Members...Thailand's Tourist and Sports Authorities" or any other source that serving alcohol in restaurants will lead to the further spread of Covid.

And hopefully you'll continue seeing the same thing.

The restaurants in Pattaya have been closed during a good portion of this pandemic - no alcohol has been allowed to be served during an even larger portion...and there have been no tourists in town...a virtual ghost town. This doesn't provide a very good basis for making decisions relative to allowing alcohol to be served when tourists start arriving - so one would assume (at least I do) that the Government/CCSA used other sources of information to arrive at the conclusions they did.

It goes without saying that they're being extremely cautious considering the risk involved. No one, including the Government, is saying that they can prove, with factual data, that all of the decisions they're making are correct. That would be impossible. I think it's reasonable to assume that they're drawing their conclusions based on their knowledge of Pattaya, the controls, or lack of controls, exhibited by the restaurant owners, behavior patterns of the average Pattaya tourist, input from the local police, and many other contributing factors, with the best interest of everyone's safety in mind.

If you don't agree with that logic, and apparently you don't, that's your prerogative.

The TEST has now been activated: We'll all be able to see the effects of serving alcohol in the designated "Blue Zones" in short order. Hopefully, covid numbers will be within controllable limits and the blue zones can then be expanded to include Pattaya. If not, and we experience an uncontrollable covid outbreak in the process, then, one would assume that the ban will remain in place in Pattaya.

[Manforallseasons]

….

[Gaybutton]

If you don't agree with that logic, and apparently you don't, that's your prerogative.

It's true. I don't agree. And since their plan is to start allowing liquor to be served about 3 weeks from the time of this post, what will have changed between then and now?

If you truly believe serving alcohol in Pattaya restaurants would spread Covid, then by that logic it would make sense to prohibit alcohol in December, January, February, and ad infinitum until Covid is history. I'm sorry, but I think it is wrong to continue preventing people from enjoying their meals, enjoying their evenings, and preventing all these venues from making money out of fear of something that might happen, but without any evidence to support the idea that it will.

I think the Covid case numbers have been reduced enough that it is no longer necessary to stop living. As I said, if a surge in cases really does happen due to serving alcohol, they can always reinstate prohibiting alcohol. I also believe Thais will act sensibly. They all are still wearing the masks, checking their temperatures when entering venues, cleaning their hands with disinfectant, and stepping up on the rare occasions when they see anyone violating the precautions. I see no reason to assume their behavior will change and the whole town will go on a drinking rampage once the ban is lifted.

Again, if anyone, including the CCSA, has any evidence that allowing the restaurants to serve alcohol will in any way cause a surge in Covid cases, I'd like to know what it is. Don't forget, when the restaurant owners recently met with the powers-that-be, they were told the ban will remain in effect, but they were not told any reasons why.

[Brad the Impala]

Is that so? Disagreeing with you means I'm not getting it? Ok. Now I understand. In order to get it, I have to agree with you.

Is there not enough capacity for your belligerence on your own forum? Or do you have to troll around the gay forums reminding us of all the things you don't get!

[Dodger]

.

I'm sorry, but I think it is wrong to continue preventing people from enjoying their meals, enjoying their evenings, and preventing all these venues from making money out of fear of something that might happen, but without any evidence to support the idea that it will.

This isn't Kansas Dorothy.

I know you don't get it, but this is the way the cookie crumbles here in the Land of Oz.

[Moses]

Is there not enough capacity for your belligerence on your own forum? Or do you have to troll around the gay forums reminding us of all the things you don't get!

Sawatdee welcomes all users who follows our posting rules.

[Gaybutton]

do you have to troll around the gay forums reminding us of all the things you don't get!

Obviously I have to troll around. Dodger and I are having a nice, friendly "purses at dawn" debate. Three guesses about how much I care whether you like it or not.

Of course, you are welcome to join in and tell me all about what I don't get. I hope you do. That way I'll have something to add to my "I Don't Get It" list . . .

[Dodger]

Just a reminder for those who may have forgotten: Chonburi Immigration will be closed until Nov 11.

Something about covid cases. Go figure!

[Brad the Impala]

Of course, you are welcome to join in and tell me all about what I don't get.

No assistance required with that!

[Gaybutton]

No assistance required with that!
Heyyyy, that's a good one, Brad. You sure told me.