Music..Drink..Astra

[Manforallseasons]

Went to Bang Sue station with 2 friends today for our second dose of Astra Zeneca, of a couple of thousand people we were the only foreigners. The organization of the whole process was very well orchestrated including a live band as well as a few types of juice, and bottled water, there was no shortage of help on hand and you had your choice of Astra or Pfizer; 45 minutes later we were headed home with a certificate of full vaccination in hand.

[francois]

Did you receive Pfizer or Astra Zeneca?

[Manforallseasons]

Did you receive Pfizer or Astra Zeneca?

Being that my first dose was AstraZeneca I followed with the recommended 2nd dose of Astra I also ordered through a local hospital 1 dose of Moderna as a booster sometime in December.

[goji]

Being that my first dose was AstraZeneca I followed with the recommended 2nd dose of Astra I also ordered through a local hospital 1 dose of Moderna as a booster sometime in December.

I presume the latter is private ? Do they require proof of residency to book this ?

In the UK, the booster doses will be either Pfizer or half a dose of Moderna, given a minimum of 6 months after the second dose. By the time I'm entitled to my UK booster, I could be in Thailand.

It the Thai hospitals offer mRNA vaccines to anyone for a reasonable price, it solves that problem.

[Ruthrieston]

I have to wait until 30th October for my second dose of AstraZeneca at MedPark Hospital in Bangkok, then two weeks more to build immunity and then I shall finally be set free again and able to meet friends for the first time since early April. The bars might even be open again by then with any luck. I think I shall wait six months after that to get my booster shot of Moderna.

[Nirish guy]

I have to wait until 30th October .....and then I shall finally be set free again ......

Not to put a dampener on that for you but if it's important to you to keep well health wise do just remember that even when fully double jabbed you can still catch Covid and suffer quite debilitating symptoms for quite a few weeks.

I personally know over 10 friends who all found themselves in that position and each one reported feeling awful for the 2 or 3 week period after catching it. The plus point (and reason for getting vaccinated in the first place of course) was that thankfully none of them needed intubated in hospital and none died, so ultimately the vaccine worked - but do perhaps be aware of that risk of still catching it when travelling back out in the world again and still take as many sensible precautions re reducing close physical contact and the wearing of a mask etc as you can perhaps to limit the chance of that happening.

I should add that most of my friends who picked that up DIDNT do that last part and decided to go to busy concerts and packed gigs etc and it really showed how silly that perhaps was when there was still a lot of Covid floating about out there.

[goji]

Not to put a dampener on that for you but if it's important to you to keep well health wise do just remember that even when fully double jabbed you can still catch Covid and suffer quite debilitating symptoms for quite a few weeks.

I personally know over 10 friends who all found themselves in that position and each one reported feeling awful for the 2 or 3 week period after catching it. The plus point (and reason for getting vaccinated in the first place of course) was that thankfully none of them needed intubated in hospital and none died, so ultimately the vaccine worked

If you don't mind me asking, which vaccine & where are they on the risk scale, considering age, mass, health etc ?

Out of the couple who I know who had covid after the vaccine, well one didn't know he had it except for the test. Another couple were very mildly ill.

I'm slightly miffed at not being in line to get my mRNA booster until mid-Dec, when I would already hope to be in Thailand.
I'd prefer to have that before going or soon after arrival, then party hard.

This won't stop me having a holiday, but I shall need to consider tactics to get a booster.

[latintopxxx]

Nirish...that is no way to live...Im vaccinated and where possible live life as I did pre covid...btw...covid doesnt worry me...im over it...look at the statistics...stop peddling anti vaxxer scare tales..

[cdnmatt]

What's the certificates like in Thailand? Are they valid for international travel? Are they recognized by immigration of other governments, or are they for use within Thailand only?

The certificates Canada is giving out are a complete joke so far. Well, there is no federal Covid certificate yet, but the health minister assures us that Trudeau is working "expeditiously" on it, so that means it'll probably be out summer of 2022 or something, who knows.

So instead each province went and made their own Covid vaccine passports, and it's just an unfathomable joke. It's literally just a piece of paper that you print off on your computer at home, it has your name, the word "vaccinated" and a QR code. Then apparently you just carry this piece of paper around with you, and that's all you need.

I've dug into the QR code, and it's a hoke. Literally all of your information is embedded directly into the QR code itself. Then there are a couple callback URLs within the QR code so whatever mobile app staff are using to scan these things can authenticate the information. However, one of the callback URLs goes to an "under construction" page and the other one throws a server not found error.

Also whoever developed that thing decided to try and be cute and clever by using non-standard encoding for.. who the hells knows why. Definitely not for security because the encoding library is open source and available for free on the internet. Takes all of about 5 minutes to bypass that.

[Nirish guy]

[QUOTE=latintopxxx;282914]Nirish...that is no way to live...Im vaccinated and where possible live life as I did pre covid...btw...covid doesnt worry me...im over it...look at the statistics...stop peddling anti vaxxer scare tales..[/QUOTE

Go fuck - i'm peddling nothing - I'm telling you EXACTLY my ( and my friends) personal experiences - Im not even getting into it with people who go on about "ohhh this is anti vaxer scare stories" as if I've something to gain from doing that, trust me I am the most liberal "fuck it just do it person ever" but Covid HAS been a totally bollox for me in many ways and as much I'd love us all just to be able to ignore it as if it isn't / wasn't there, like it or not that's not the reality of where things are in the world right now.

Goji in answer to your question I dont know the exact answer per person but in general everyone here where I live has either been given Phizer or Astra Z vaccine but mostly all the Phizer I think. But I would stress again that the vaccines WORKED, they saved each person from getting worse than they could have been, helped them to avoid hospital and allowed each to recover at home.

My original point of this post was merely to point out that even when vaccinated you CAN still pick up Covid and it may well be unpleasant and more for a few weeks and so it's common sense just to be aware of that and 'for now" perhaps just forget all good precautions you would take if you think you're in a high risk area / City etc, where perhaps masses of unjabbed / untested people are all congregating in tight spaces etc - that's just common sense to me.

When double jabbed the risks may be less the preference of you NOT getting it and so it NOT kicking the shit out of you for the 2 or 3 weeks each of my friends said it did would I'm guessing still be the preferable to most people, especially if older as many members here may be I would imagine, if thats not your personal view then thats fine, but it doesn't lessen the sense of my comments - and they're most certainly not "anti vax scare stories" ffs.

So THAT is and was my point, I'm not saying "ohhhhh stay home for ever and never mix again, I'm merely pointing out being double jabbed isn't the licence for life to return to full on normal as many of us might have hoped as we'd never pick up Covid again after that as THAT is not the case - as my staff members and friends who still caught it after their jabs will unhappily attest too.

[cdnmatt]

I can vouch for what NIrish said. A client of mine who's fully vaccinated with Pfizer but is in a hot spot is currently battling Covid. He's a few years younger than me too, and is only in his mid 30s.

Sounds like he's having a rough go at it. Hopefully he gets better soon, because he owes me money. :)

[Nirish guy]

Yes that was my point Matt - most of my friends and workmates who picked it up had all thought "Im jabbed, so I'm fully protected now" and so went back out partying to large scale crowded concerts etc just like the old days, all with the view of "well if I get it I get it but as I'm double jabbed it wont really make much difference to me now" - but actually each to a man ( and a few women too) have all said now " wtf was I thinking and if I realised that if and when I caught it it would knock me off my feet for a full week and make my feel like shit for up to 4 weeks after that" then they all wished that they'd perhaps given things just a little more time so covid levels here dropped just a bit further to lessen the risk of them getting it at all.

My point was never we should cower away, just merely just common sense in the places and risk situations we place ourselves and be aware that if we DO still pick up Covid it still wont be a pleasant experience for most people, until they recover again. And if like myself its more important than ever perhaps to keep working just now in trying to get life going again the LAST thing I or anyone would need is 3 or 4 weeks of feeling like crap just now I'm guessing.

To me thats nothing to do with "rights or liberties or freedoms or any vexing messages" - it's just basic common sense and something for those it matters to health wise is something they would want to remember / consider re just how much we go back to "normal life" straight away is all.

[cdnmatt]

Exactly. I'm of the mindset that if I get it, then I get it. As you said though, a little common sense goes a long way. For me at least, it's really not a problem to carry a mask around in my pocket and throw it on before I go into a store or whatever. If I'm having folks over for dinner and drinks, I also don't have a problem checking in with them and asking whether or not they're vaccinated. If they get offended by that, then too bad for them, and don't come.

At the same time, not going to let it deter me from moving abroad and enjoying life. It's a balancing act. :)

I'll never understand the people who treat Covid as a joke though. A week or two back I seen on the news about a "Get Covid" party that happened in Edson, Alberta, Canada. I guess about 80 of these Darwin award candidates were there. Reasoning is they think vaccines are for pussies, and they're going to get immunity the "real man's" way be getting Covid naturally. Gotta say, red necks aren't exactly the brightest folks on the planet.

[Dodger]

Being that my first dose was AstraZeneca I followed with the recommended 2nd dose of Astra I also ordered through a local hospital 1 dose of Moderna as a booster sometime in December.

Congrats on being fully jabbed.

You may want to consider getting your booster a bit later than December. According to the experts (there's a billion of them) around 6-8 months after the second jab is recommended. Tests are still in the process of determining the best duration for the the boosters but 6 months seems to be a pretty good bet.

Also, the experts are suggesting that we don't mix vaccine types (even for the boosters), as there is not enough data yet to reach a conclusion on this. Getting a jab of Moderna, even with its slightly higher efficacy level than the AZ you received, probably wouldn't make any difference anyway. I know that I'm staying with the same vaccine during this whole roller coaster ride.

[Gaybutton]

I am not anti-vaxxer. I am anti-complacency. Getting fully vaccinated does NOT mean now you are immune to Covid. It means you are less likely to get it and less likely to die from it. And even though you probably won't die from it, what you'll likely go through as the disease runs its course won't be pleasant. And even then, you're not guaranteed to be immune. You could become infected yet again. No vaccination has yet been developed that can guarantee you won't get Covid.

If anyone truly believes once you are vaccinated, now nothing to worry about and you can throw caution to the wind, then I suggest you get on YouTube and watch a few of the old Disney - Jiminy Cricket "I'm No Fool" videos.

Personally, even once I get my second jab later this month, I fully intend to continue all the precautions as best as I can (with the exception of absurd ones such as wearing a mask when driving a car alone) until people just aren't getting Covid anymore. Besides, the precautions are probably preventing me from getting other diseases as well.

If someone has sensible reasons not to continue the precautions, what are they?

[cdnmatt]

Mixing Astro Zenica with Modurna makes absolutely no sense. I'm not going to bother looking it up, but I would suggest you lookup exactly how these mRNA vaccines work. You can't just get one jab and think you're good to go because you previously had two jabs of Astro Zenica as that's simply not how it works.

The first mRNA jab activates your innate immune system, which are basically your frontline workers within your immune system. When you cut yourself or scrape a knee or something, it's your innate immune system that immediately rushes over to the affected area and starts cleaning it up. That first jab activates that innate immune system and teaches the frontline workers to detect and attack the spike protein.

The second jab acts as the long-term memory storage jab. With the second jab your T cells will take everything your body has learned about the spike protein, head over to your lymph nodes which are essentially your immune system's library, and store all that information there for a later day. Once the second jab has had a couple of weeks to settle in, if Covid enters your body your T cells will recognize it then with the information saved in your mymph nodes, rush over to the affected area and start telling yur innate immune system how to attack the spike protein.

I may have gotten small details of that wrong, but in essence, that's why the mRNA is a two jab process. I guess you'd need to consult a qualified immunologist for this, but simply getting one jab of Modurana and leaving it at that doesn't seem like it would offer you that much protection. You need that second jab as that one activates the long-term memory response in your immune system.
a

[latintopxxx]

nirish...what u describe sounds like the flu....stop acting like a super model with a broken finger nail...

[Moses]

Mixing Astro Zenica with Modurna makes absolutely no sense. I'm not going to bother looking it up, but I would suggest you lookup exactly how these mRNA vaccines work. You can't just get one jab and think you're good to go because you previously had two jabs of Astro Zenica as that's simply not how it works.

The first mRNA jab activates your innate immune system, which are basically your frontline workers within your immune system. When you cut yourself or scrape a knee or something, it's your innate immune system that immediately rushes over to the affected area and starts cleaning it up. That first jab activates that innate immune system and teaches the frontline workers to detect and attack the spike protein.

The second jab acts as the long-term memory storage jab. With the second jab your T cells will take everything your body has learned about the spike protein, head over to your lymph nodes which are essentially your immune system's library, and store all that information there for a later day. Once the second jab has had a couple of weeks to settle in, if Covid enters your body your T cells will recognize it then with the information saved in your mymph nodes, rush over to the affected area and start telling yur innate immune system how to attack the spike protein.

I may have gotten small details of that wrong, but in essence, that's why the mRNA is a two jab process. I guess you'd need to consult a qualified immunologist for this, but simply getting one jab of Modurana and leaving it at that doesn't seem like it would offer you that much protection. You need that second jab as that one activates the long-term memory response in your immune system.
a

Matt, who told to you this fairytale?

Both doses of Moderna, both doses of Pfizer, both doses of Astra and so on are chemically identical. The only existing vaccine against Covid with different components is Sputnik - one component is based on adenovirus type 26 and another is based on type 5.

In case of Moderna (and other 2-jabs vaccines, excl Sputnik) reason why they parted 1ml dose to 2 injections is - it significally (around 8 times) lowers chances to get complications after injections. Also they tried to distribute vaccines as wide and fast as they can at time when quantity of vaccines is limited - by distributing 0.5 ml instead of 1 ml they cover 2-times bigger population and faster give them basic immunity. Also here maybe is commercial idea - they have more profits when selling 2 vials than 1.

Second jab is just a booster. You can easy find this information in any paper what is distributed with any package of Moderna, Pfizer and other vaccines.

And there IS reason to use different vaccines: manufacturers uses different approaches for to make vaccines. As result each vaccine "instructs" our immune system to recognize virus, but each vaccine "introduces" to our system different fragment of spike for recognition - just because each manufacturer had on hands slightly different stamm of virus at time of research. So using 2 vaccines has sense - 2 vaccines WILL "instruct" our immune system better than one - they WILL give more full picture. It is like 3-d vision in comparation with 2-d vision.

I can tell you even more: in case of combination of vaccines A+B isn't the same as B+A. What vaccine should be used at first and what should be second - IS important for to get better result.

For example Oxford's study shows what AZ followed by Pfizer induced higher antibodies and T cell responses than Pfizer followed by AZ (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3874014)

Problem with using two vaccines is laying in different plane: using 2 different vaccines may boost not only immune answer, but also may boost complications. So, to talk with your doctor before to mix vaccines is a good idea.

[goji]

Matt, who told to you this fairytale?

Certain board members are renowned for producing fiction. A problem solved by using the ignore list.

However, since you quoted the latest bullshit, it starts by saying mixing "Astra Zeneca and Moderna makes no sense".
There are several trials which show mixing vaccines does make sense.

No need to read any more of this nonsense.

[Dodger]

I'm not an epidemiologist, and don't even know what's inside an aspirin, but what matt had to say was pretty consistent with what I've been reading during this information overload on mixing vaccines.

Last week, a UK study called Com-COV, which analyzed combinations of the same two vaccines, found that people in the mix-and-match groups experienced higher rates of common vaccine-related side effects, such as fever, than did people who received two doses of the same vaccine.

The WHO also warns against people mixing and matching (see link below) which is good enough for me. It's just too easy to do things the right way without trying to outsmart the experts. It's not like we're ordering drinks at a bar:

Farang: "Hey bartender, I'll have two shots of Pfizer with a Moderna chaser"
Bartender: "Sorry we're out of Moderna, but we have a two for the price of one special on Sinovac.
Farang: Fuck Sinovac - I'm driving tonight.
Bartender: OK, then how about a Sputnic chaser and we'll toss in a free bag of pretzels.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/who-warns-against-mixing-matching-covid-vaccines-2021-07-12/

[Nirish guy]

nirish...what u describe sounds like the flu....stop acting like a super model with a broken finger nail...

OK you're obviously trolling now as i clearly said that my workmates etc were FLOORED, I can say that out of the 10 or so perhaps 1 maybe 2 might do the drama queen thing, the rest are more the hard core "oh well I'll just knuckle down and work through it types" if they come down with something - the point was they COULDNT and all HAD to take time off ranging from one to two weeks of work solid to recover, with nearly all then still saying they were rightly 100% for a further 3 to 4 weeks after that then still, with nausea and a high temperature banging headaches all recurring themes from each of them - and several actually commented that it was WAY worse than any flu they've ever experienced.

But hey think what you want re that. Actually perhaps you should pop along to one of those Covid spreading parties that Matt had mentioned as the world could do with a little more thinning out of the crowd who thinks as you do a little bit more in my opinion.

Do be sure though to come back and let us know how YOUR "flu" went for you wont you.....

[goji]

Last week, a UK study called Com-COV, which analyzed combinations of the same two vaccines, found that people in the mix-and-match groups experienced higher rates of common vaccine-related side effects, such as fever, than did people who received two doses of the same vaccine.

The studies also show vaccine mixing improves efficacy against the virus. So I would very happily mix vaccines, when the most likely downside might be a very mild & short duration fever, as the body produces an immune response against a new vaccine.

That might be why many countries in Europe and Asia ARE mixing vaccines.

As for the WHO advice, well the WHO were the people who recommended no restrictions at all on travel out of China in January and February 2020. They also took months to get around to recommending wearing masks.
They were badly wrong on both counts. Tedros ought to be fired.

[cdnmatt]

[QUOTE=Moses;282936]Matt, who told to you this fairytale?

Both doses of Moderna, both doses of Pfizer, both doses of Astra and so on are chemically identical. The only existing vaccine against Covid with different components is Sputnik - one component is based on adenovirus type 26 and another is based on type 5.[/quote[

What the hell are you on about now? Here, it's simple:

Pfizer and Modurna = mRNA
Astro Zenica and Johnson & Johnson = Inactivated virus (ie. traditional vaccine ala measles, et al).
Sputnik = Vector based

Those are three totally different types of vaccines that work in three totally different ways. From the data that has came out, apparently the two mRNA vaccines and Sputnik offer the best protection, while the inactivated virus vaccines are lagging behind although better than nothing. Maybe I'm wrong and as I said he'd need to consult a doctor, but I can't possibly see how mixing Astro Zenica with Modrnua is going to help as the two vaccines work in totally different ways, and there's a very legitimate reason as to why the mRNA vaccines require two jabs.

They are totally different types of vaccines, so by no means are they chemically the same.

Nonetheless, you're an arrogant knucklehead, so not getting into an internet fight with you.

[dinagam]

Hello Latin...do you reckon there's another drama Queen in our midst?

[Dodger]

The studies also show vaccine mixing improves efficacy against the virus. So I would very happily mix vaccines, when the most likely downside might be a very mild & short duration fever, as the body produces an immune response against a new vaccine.

You may very well be right, so mixing vaccines sounds like the way to go for you.

[latintopxxx]

dinagam...yes...and a dangerous one...insinuiating that the vaccine is practically worthless...referring to so called friends...like he has fany friends let alone 10...lol...that was the give way...10 friends...yeah right...

[goji]

You may very well be right, so mixing vaccines sounds like the way to go for you.

By a quick estimate, comfortably over 2/3rds of the booster doses to be delivered in the UK will be of a different vaccine to the first dose.
So it's the way to go for a lot of Brits over 50.

[cdnmatt]

I think we can all confidently say that nobody knows what the fuck is going on, not even the health ministers of our respective countries.

[Nirish guy]

dinagam...yes...and a dangerous one...insinuiating that the vaccine is practically worthless...referring to so called friends...like he has fany friends let alone 10...lol...that was the give way...10 friends...yeah right...

A) Sounds more like you’re the dangerous one here not me on this subject if you think reminding someone that even when vaccinated we can all still pick up Covid and so it makes good sense to remain aware of our actions and the situations we place ourselves in - tyats hardly a “dangerous” statement now is it.
B) Also Im sure you read where I TWICE said how the vaccine had WORKED well and as intended or did you miss that part ?
C) I actually said friends and workmates ( there’s your speed reading failing you again
D) Re friends in general maybe not a good idea to judge others by your own usually low standards there perhaps eh.

But hey if others want to follow your sage advice that’s totally up to them. I just know after hearing the experiences of my friends and workmates succumbing to Covid and them feeling like crap while getting over in the weeks that followed I’ll certainly not be blatantly rushing to put myself in the way of catching it if I can avoid it “just because I’m already vaccinated” as that would be foolish don’t you think?

But as I said you should feel free to knock yourself out in that regard and do please let us all know just how that works out for you, I look forward to reading all about your “flu” symptoms.

[Keith]

I had two jabs of Pfizer, as did most of my friends, in Hertfordshire. We have all been told by our GPs, that the booster will also be Pfizer.

[Old git]

Went to Bang Sue station..

Would the Land of Smiles be quite the same, without the suggestive place names?

[Old git]

Not to put a dampener on that for you but if it's important to you to keep well health wise do just remember that even when fully double jabbed you can still catch Covid

In the UK Covid is rattling through the vaccinated population. There's not a lot of evidence that any of the vaccines get in the way of Delta to any great extent, but they do greatly diminish the impact on the individual.

One good friend is currently enduring a slow recovery from Covid, unusual as everyone else I know who's had it recently has been knocked sideways for a couple of days and then quickly recovered.

Lo and behold, despite being type 1 diabetic and age 53, he's not been vaccinated, as his wife it turns out, is a passionate anti-vaxxer - for anything..

So he's suffering the full Monty..

[Nirish guy]

In the UK Covid is rattling through the vaccinated population. There's not a lot of evidence that any of the vaccines get in the way of Delt.

Careful now, you might end up being accused being "dangerous" by passing on totally accurate information like that it seems ! :) And yes it was surprising at first that covid as you said seemed to be rattling around even more than previously this last while and more people I know were catching it, but I guessing once you factor in places and venues reopening again and other measures such s mask wearing etc being reduced that's only to be expected. Which was of course the whole point of my original post in saying we should be aware of that still and weigh up the risks and time off work required etc should we pick it up and balance that risk when choosing where to go, what to do and who we mix with etc.



One good friend is currently enduring a slow recovery from Covid, unusual as everyone else I know who's had it recently has been knocked sideways for a couple of days and then quickly recovered..

Yep most of my friends / workmates seemed to get hit for the first 3 / 5 days at the start and then eased from there, but that seemed to vary quite a lot, some from the next week they were getting close to fine again and the others it took up to a full 3 weeks before they started to feel totally clear of it. The weird thing was it was the exact reverse of the people I expected drama queen wise who reported feeling sick longer etc which lead me to believe they were telling the truth about how crap they were feeling, plus I could hear it in their voice. Also a few of those people are people who wouldn't stay home at the weekends instead of going to the pub etc even if their house was on fire but stay home they DID and for the 3 whole weekends weeks and that NEVER happens and equally even when home they didn't have as much as a glass of wine over that period so I knew then that they just have felt bad as that is never their norm ! ;)



Lo and behold, despite being type 1 diabetic and age 53, he's not been vaccinated, as his wife it turns out, is a passionate anti-vaxxer - for anything.. So he's suffering the full Monty..

I just can't understand someone's logic in that position, especially when them not vaccinated "as their wife or partner is very against it etc". I think I'd be saying "ok thats up to you love, but I"M getting it NOW rather than risking dying NOW and I'll take my chances re growing that third arm ( or whatever it is they seem worried about happening) later perhaps!

[Old git]

Careful now, you might end up being accused being "dangerous" by passing on totally accurate information like that it seems ! :)

I know quite a few people who have had it over the past three months, and with one exception, all were vaccinated. There's plenty more who haven't had any symptoms or didn't bother to test.

I felt utterly exhausted for a couple of days nearly a month ago now - was that my turn? I was just too knackered to do anything, including getting a test, so I don't know..

[goji]

I felt utterly exhausted for a couple of days nearly a month ago now - was that my turn? I was just too knackered to do anything, including getting a test, so I don't know..

If I want a covid test, I just lean over and get one off the shelf. They come in packs of 7 & can be ordered FOC from the UK government.

[Old git]

If I want a covid test, I just lean over and get one off the shelf. They come in packs of 7 & can be ordered FOC from the UK government.

I know - I had a pack downstairs at the time - but was so lacking in energy I didn't get to use it..