"We don't know if we will survive" say Thai Sex Workers in Chonburi

[Brad the Impala]

Today, the Walking Street of Pattaya City in coastal Chonburi is no longer a place of entertainment and opportunities. Night entertainment venues that had provided jobs for many sex workers are shut. There are no bright neon lights at night and no pumping music. Tourists have vanished since last year when the COVID-19 pandemic hit Thailand.

“It’s so depressing,” said Anna, who is known along the Walking Street by her moniker.

“Nowadays, by 6 pm, Pattaya looks like an abandoned city. There is hardly any sign of life on the Walking Street. This makes me want to cry. This place used to generate income and build the future for so many people.”

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/thailand-covid-19-sex-workers-jobless-starving-2108501

[Dodger]

Brad,

Walking Street has been closed for 6 months.

[christianpfc]

Exactly! The article is from 14 Aug 2021, whoever is still in Pattaya hoping for situation to improve soon is a slow learner.

"We don't know if we will survive" is a bit dramatic. It's not a question of life or death, rather: No more party every night, no new mobile phone every year (or even more frequently). Go home and sit it out, or rather look for other sources of income.

I realized in July 2020 that the situation won't get back to normal any soon, and took measures accordingly.

[latintopxxx]

...and yet some people includung some here claimed that sexually servicing tourists was not a bog part pof the Thai economy..

[Dodger]

...and yet some people includung some here claimed that sexually servicing tourists was not a bog part pof the Thai economy..

Good point!

Tourism (which is measured and reported) may have been contributing 12% to Thailand's GNP, but I've always felt that the income generated from "Prostitution" blew that figure away.

If Thailand could just vaccinate their people...fire every single employee in the Tourist Authority...and start promoting "Prostitution" which has always been their core competency anyway, they'd quadruple the GNP in the first year and everyone would be happy again.

How would you like to see a promotion like this:

"The Thailand Cream Box"

1) Proof of vaccination and you're good to go.
2) Stay as long as you like.
3) 300,000 Prostitutes waiting to greet you with open arms and legs., e.g. boys, girls, trapese artists, transvestites, and we'll even toss in a few blind midgets if that bursts your bubble. (sorry matt, no offense intended)
4) All bars offer totally nude entertainment - so leave the kids at home.
5) All bars provide "Off Tokens" which, when presented at local shopping malls will get you a discount.
6) Complimentary Song Teaw Transportation when bar-hopping for you and your prostitute(s)

Enjoy your stay in the Land of Smiles!

[Armando]

Go home and sit it out, or rather look for other sources of income.

I realized in July 2020 that the situation won't get back to normal any soon, and took measures accordingly.
Oh how wise you were, Christian! Well done!

But you seem to forget that you clearly had quite a bit of money in your pockets and in your bank account for I am certain you are not working to make money stuck in Cambodia. With many millions out of work and others restricted to minimal part time work in Thailand, your advice to sex workers is more than naive. How do you suggest a sex worker finds "another source of income"? Growing vegetables for people who cannot pay for them? Then what happens when their money runs out, if it has not already done so? Don't you have any clue about what is going on in Thailand?

[arsenal]

If I opened a go go bar it would be in Sunee. Not sure of the name yet, maybe LondonJack's. On the hour LondonJack's express electric vehicle leaves Jomtien Complex, fare 150 baht or free if you buy a drink. Return journey 150 baht or free if you buy two drinks and one can be for a boy. It returns to Jomtien at half past and it does this all evening. Boys in briefs of different colours...some black, some white and some red. Boys wear different colours every night. (pink pants) The music is western easy listening, not too loud with a few key songs that upon playing the boys dance and invite the customers to do so too. You wanna take the boys pants off!!! That's perfectly OK provided he doesn't mind and you tip accordingly and to be honest the latter is more important than the former because it's a go go bar not a 7/11. Bait boys who's job is to lure you in but don't go with farang don't work there but it's still the boys choice if he goes with YOU or not. Buy a bottle and get a free off. Don't expect me to sit and drink with you, I don't drink (in Thailamd) and I'm sociable only on my own terms. We're open till 2.00am or longer if the outside tables are still buying. Wanna come?

[a447]

Why not just call it Jack? That will give clients a good idea of what can go on inside.


the boys dance and invite the customers to do so too.

That's a great idea.

When I was at the Escape Bar in Prague the guys there would dance totally naked with the customers. They would drag them onto the dance floor - I actually sprinted - and you could enjoy a good grope as the lights were dimmed.

[kkjason]

Oh how wise you were, Christian! Well done!

But you seem to forget that you clearly had quite a bit of money in your pockets and in your bank account for I am certain you are not working to make money stuck in Cambodia. With many millions out of work and others restricted to minimal part time work in Thailand, your advice to sex workers is more than naive. How do you suggest a sex worker finds "another source of income"? Growing vegetables for people who cannot pay for them? Then what happens when their money runs out, if it has not already done so? Don't you have any clue about what is going on in Thailand?

This is all a bit harsh. Everyone makes choices in life. I am tired of everyone saying the sex workers have no other option in life. That is pure bs. Do I feel sorry for the sex workers who have suddenly lost their income? Of course, I do - I am as compassionate a person as the next guy. However, life must go on. Millions of Thai's lost everything they had in '97 during the Global Financial crisis. Instead of just wallowing in self-pity, they found another way to make money and get back in the game of life again. Many sex workers had life great for years. They saved little and partied like there was no tomorrow. That is on them. I have a beautiful niece who works her ass off (no, not as a sex worker) and saves 70% of what she makes every month. She is 100% Thai - from Essan, went to Bangkok on her own and found a job 7 years ago and has not looked back. She is not influenced by me or my money. But, if she lost her job tomorrow, she is not going to cry because of it. She has been saving for just an eventuality. She is also the first to tell me that there are plenty of jobs out there, even during the pandemic, but many people don't want them. My brother-in-law has worked his ass off in a factory for 30 years. To make a statement like 'how do you suggest a sex worker find another source of income' is a slap in the face to the many thousands of Thai's who have found other ways to make a baht. Again, we all make choices. I find nothing wrong with a sex worker's choice of career. However, there are no clients right now. As Christian states, that is obvious. It is time to look for other sources of income - it's been well over a year already. The money is out there if the desire is there. For most, however, there is no desire to do so.

[Dodger]

.

That's a great idea.

When I was at the Escape Bar in Prague the guys there would dance totally naked with the customers. They would drag them onto the dance floor - I actually sprinted - and you could enjoy a good grope as the lights were dimmed.

If Arsenel's bar is going to be in Sunee, he's going to need wheelchair ramps attached to the stage if farang dancing is allowed.

[arsenal]

The farang will not be dancing on the stage, it's bad form and any naked boys there wouldn't like it.

[goji]

Exactly! The article is from 14 Aug 2021, whoever is still in Pattaya hoping for situation to improve soon is a slow learner.

"We don't know if we will survive" is a bit dramatic. It's not a question of life or death, rather: No more party every night, no new mobile phone every year (or even more frequently). Go home and sit it out, or rather look for other sources of income.

1 Some of the hookers in Pattaya were doing OK during the lock down last January. The ones that actually look after their customers tend to get the business that they deserve. Of course, there might just be a bit more fear around now & fewer active customers, due to higher incidence rates of covid. However, vaccination will fix that.

2 The most important sentiment here is that feeling sorry for yourself doesn't help. Developing some stoicism and constantly optimizing lifestyle for changed circumstances is a better way to behave. Any hooker in Pattaya who isn't getting customers either needs to up their service levels so they get repeat business or quit the profession and go and do something else for a living.

3 I'm sure it's more difficult than normal in Thailand now. But it's still way better than living in Kabul, Pyong Yang or even Yangon.

[a447]

Many of the workers come from poor areas of Thailand with an upbringing and family life completely alien to our own.

It's difficult to find jobs in a time when jobs are actually disappearing very quickly and there is a severe economic downturn. Also, a lot of young people involved in the sex industry lack a decent education to help them find a job.

Many young people have no experience in handling money as they never had any. Suddenly they found themselves with lots and so like many people their age, they went out and partied. Also they did not have anyone at home who had experience in handling money and who could give them some advice.

I think we need to see their situation through their eyes and not through our privileged lifestyle.

[bkkguy]

How would you like to see a promotion like this:
"The Thailand Cream Box"


while this may be the fantasy of many a poster here, and ignoring the dozen or so of them for the moment, what percentage of the Thai population, and indeed the potential future tourist market, do you seriously think would be in the "everyone" group you see as being happy with the country deciding to commit itself to being just a third world sex tourist destination again?

[francois]

Oh how wise you were, Christian! Well done!

But you seem to forget that you clearly had quite a bit of money in your pockets and in your bank account for I am certain you are not working to make money stuck in Cambodia. With many millions out of work and others restricted to minimal part time work in Thailand, your advice to sex workers is more than naive. How do you suggest a sex worker finds "another source of income"? Growing vegetables for people who cannot pay for them? Then what happens when their money runs out, if it has not already done so? Don't you have any clue about what is going on in Thailand?

Wise words,Armando; agree completely with what you posted.

[Manforallseasons]

Some insight into Christian’s thinking:



Re: Cambodia during the pandemic
Quote Originally Posted by christianpfc View Post
I tested positive last year without symptoms. As I see it, Covid is a hyped annual flue. No danger for the majority of the population, only for some at-risk groups.

Comment from Mfas:
Hmmm, so how many people do you think you’ve infected with the virus and just think how many they have infected! But if I read you right you think no big deal.

[christianpfc]

But you seem to forget that you clearly had quite a bit of money in your pockets and in your bank account...

How do you suggest a sex worker finds "another source of income"? Growing vegetables for people who cannot pay for them? Then what happens when their money runs out, if it has not already done so? Don't you have any clue about what is going on in Thailand?
You are right that I live a comfortable life due to my parents' money.

Thailand is largely an agrarian economy. I guess every boy has a family back in the provinces who farm land. In fact, one of my favorites sent pictures of him farming rice, and a boy I met in Phnom Penh but who is now home in Battambang sent pictures of him harvesting corn/maize. Both of them would rather be in Pattaya or Phnom Penh, but they would not be able to sustain that lifestyle (no job, no income to pay for rent and food). Home in the province, there is no rent to pay and they can get part of their food from farming.

I'm not in Thailand, so I don't have first-hand impressions. But I stay in contact with Thai friends (the one who constantly whines about money problems did so already before Covid). And I see what's going on in Cambodia, and everyone is doing fine, according to the circumstances.


Many young people have no experience in handling money as they never had any. Suddenly they found themselves with lots and so like many people their age, they went out and partied. Also they did not have anyone at home who had experience in handling money and who could give them some advice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ant_and_the_Grasshopper

The fable concerns a grasshopper (in the original, a cicada) that has spent the summer singing while the ant (or ants in some versions) worked to store up food for winter. When that season arrives, the grasshopper finds itself dying of hunger and begs the ant for food. However, the ant rebukes its idleness and tells it to dance the winter away now.
In my early years I gave unsolicited financial advice to boys, in vain. I have helped many a boy with money and advice; but if you don't take my advice, I won't give you money either.

[goji]

Thailand is largely an agrarian economy. I guess every boy has a family back in the provinces who farm land. In fact, one of my favorites sent pictures of him farming rice, and a boy I met in Phnom Penh but who is now home in Battambang sent pictures of him harvesting corn/maize. Both of them would rather in Pattaya or Phnom Penh, but they would not be able to sustain that lifestyle (no job, no income to pay for rent and food).

Based on what I see in the UK, coming from an agricultural background isn't necessarily a barrier to achievement.

1 Farmers who know how to farm can make make good money. Those who don't know how to farm struggle, but why should incompetence be rewarded ?
2 I've seen offspring of farmers go to University and set up technology businesses, ending up with net worth of several millions.

To what extent Thailand offers opportunity like this is another question. However, in a pandemic, going back home to the farm is a nice safe base, with food and a home. Also, even in Cambodia, I see rice harvesting with machines now, so it's not quite the same backbreaking job as it once was.

[francois]

If Arsenel's bar is going to be in Sunee, he's going to need wheelchair ramps attached to the stage if farang dancing is allowed.

Are you being facetious or do you have something against a disabled person using a wheelchair?

[francois]

Based on what I see in the UK, coming from an agricultural background isn't necessarily a barrier to achievement.

1 Farmers who know how to farm can make make good money. Those who don't know how to farm struggle, but why should incompetence be rewarded ?
2 I've seen offspring of farmers go to University and set up technology businesses, ending up with net worth of several millions.

To what extent Thailand offers opportunity like this is another question. However, in a pandemic, going back home to the farm is a nice safe base, with food and a home. Also, even in Cambodia, I see rice harvesting with machines now, so it's not quite the same backbreaking job as it once was.

Do you really believe that farmers and others in Thailand/Cambodia/Laos have it so good? I know a person in Laos who has only a mother who can barely exist and his salary is 3000/month; another one in Laos, whose father is incapacitated (no mom) and needs money from his son who now has no job; and one in Thailand who is living with his boyfriend and whose father just died. Not a rosy picture to say the least.

[latintopxxx]

...lots of people here displaying their real personalities...not a nice thing I ight add. I cant imagine what its like to be hungry and homeless...as for not saving up for a rainy dat....who would have imagined that in this modern era that a pandemic would cripple the world and defeat modern medicine...sounds like a 2nd rate hollywood movie...

[goji]

Do you really believe that farmers and others in Thailand/Cambodia/Laos have it so good?

Well on average, clearly not. However, there probably are successful farmers in Thailand, judging by the vehicles and machinery they run.

The poorest people are not likely to be the farmers but those who don't even have a farm.

[gerefan2]

...who would have imagined that in this modern era that a pandemic would cripple the world and defeat modern medicine...sounds like a 2nd rate hollywood movie...

I don’t believe for one minute the “PANDEMIC crippled the world”.

The worlds reaction is the problem.

[gerefan2]

The poorest people are not likely to be the farmers but those who don't even have a farm.

Most of the Thai boys I knew in Pattaya have returned to the “Farm”. Often it is to their villages and homes where they can get somewhere to sleep and something to eat. From their Facebook profiles most have some sort of work. Whilst not as well off as in Pattaya, at least their future is somewhat secure.

The ones with the biggest problem (and there are a lot of them) are the boys from neighbouring countries who are still in town. For various reasons they cannot return to their countries and are stuck in Pattaya with no income and at risk of being unable to pay for accommodation and food.

For example one guy I know is not Thai. He seems to have no Visa, no bank account, no money and when I sometimes “help” him I have to send it to one of his Thai colleagues. He is well and truly trapped in Pattaya.

[Dodger]

It’s no mystery that that Thailand’s sex workers, who rely heavily on foreign tourism to sustain their livelihoods, have been decimated by this pandemic. For the “working boys” that we all know and cherish, working in the sex industry provides them with access to livable salaries that would not be otherwise available unless they had higher levels of education or social connections, which most of them lack.

Without almost no support whatsoever from the government, the sex workers are simply left to fend for themselves. A few of the posters here have the opinion that they should have simply returned home to work on the family farm, or sought employment elsewhere when this pandemic hit, which, in my opinion, is a bit short-sighted.

To put this in perspective, a high percentage of the working boys come from impoverished rural areas in Thailand, including the Isaan region. The average farming household in Isaan owns less than 10 rai of farmland, where half of the farming households earn annual incomes below Thailand’s poverty line of 32,000 baht. Sad - but true.

To a western way of thinking, it’s just logical that a working boy would simply hop a bus and go home during these lockdowns, but if the family he’s returning to doesn’t have enough food to feed themselves, this could place additional hardship on the family which some boys would prefer avoiding – even if the alternative means they don’t have a place to eat or sleep. Some boys have large enough families where accommodations can be made, but not all of them are this fortunate.

As far as them having the option to just find somewhere else to work. This option is only available to a very small percentage of the “boys” due to their lack of education, skills, experience, and social connections. The unemployment rate in Thailand has literally doubled since January, 2020, and there simply aren’t enough jobs available for anyone at this juncture.

Another factor that impacts the ability of an unemployed sex worker to find alternative employment is the lack of a “support system”. Those coming from good families, with supportive parents and others on the family structure who can provide guidance and support through tough times like this is also a scarcity in many Thai families, especially in the impoverished rural regions. This is something that I believe a lot of westerners take for granted which leads to these types of misperceptions.

In Summary:

Looking through western eyes: They should simply go home or find another job.

In Reality: That’s sometimes impossible.

What should we do: Practice being compassionate and understanding, and thank God that we have life so much better.

[arsenal]

And to add to Dodgers piece is of course the fact than many boys actually send money home.

[Armando]

This is all a bit harsh. Everyone makes choices in life. I am tired of everyone saying the sex workers have no other option in life. That is pure bs.
You suggest that there are plenty of jobs out there for those who want them. With respect that has to be absolute bs! According to the World Bank tourism in Thailand generated US$100 billion in 2018. Withdraw a vast amount of that and inevitably Thailand is going through a major economic crisis.

Approx. 6 million Thais worked directly in the tourism industry. A large percentage of these Thais are out of work and there is no work available for others in their businesses. Indirect employment? I have no idea, but having seen the number of shops closed in Bangkok, on videos posted on this site and spoken to friends in different parts of the country, it is perfectly obvious that a great many other jobs have disappeared. So if there are several million out there looking for work, Iam sure those sex workers whose jobs have all but disappeared and whose eduction level is likely to be pretty low would love to hear from your niece where they are going to find jobs? If she is so sure, perhaps she could make her billions by setting up an employment agency. But the fact is that in August 2021 those jobs are a mirage. A fiction. They don't exist.

The comparison between 1997 and 2001 is also not comparable. The situation is now "far worse" compared to various analysts and experts -


Thailand is in the midst of the greatest financial and economic crisis in modern times.

Bank of Thailand Governor Sethaput Suthiwartnarueput was already on record even before the current outbreak took off in mid-June, as indicating that this crisis, because of its prolonged nature and continued uncertainty, represents a bigger one than the Financial Crisis of 1997.

The situation for the domestic economy is made even worse by the continued growth in household and, on a wider scale, private sector debt which the central bank now regards as its greatest priority
https://trusteer.secure.force.com/PKB/articles/en_US/FAQ/Thanks-for-installing-Rapport

[Armando]

Apologies - computer problem caused a wrong attribution. The quote in the previous post comes here -
https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2021/07/13/fears-for-economy-bigger-than-1997-crisis/

[goji]

For example one guy I know is not Thai. He seems to have no Visa, no bank account, no money and when I sometimes “help” him I have to send it to one of his Thai colleagues. He is well and truly trapped in Pattaya.

Now there's a point.

For example, getting a passport in Cambodia costs $135 & takes 44~55 days. Faster services are available, such as 3 days for $380. This is ridiculously expensive for citizens of a country like Cambodia, meaning a lot of "working capital" is required just to start working in Pattaya. Of course, in normal times they can offer their services on the apps in Cambodia to fund this. That could be difficult now.

A Lao passport costs $50 and takes 10 working days. Much more reasonable.

ALL of the lads I meet in Thailand had passports or ID cards on the day we first met. No surprise, since I need proof of age unless they are clearly over 18. Some have bank accounts, including Lao & Khmer citizens. One opened a bank account after I told him to keep going to other branches until one opened an account, just like I did.

Anyone who doesn't have a passport is in a most unfortunate situation. I can't see this working well in the long term, as once they are too old for the current profession, getting a job without any form of ID will be difficult.

The only boy I know who has asked me to send money during the pandemic is one who has several farang sending money and he seems to spend it on clubbing etc.
None of the others have requested money or even hinted at it by suggesting times are hard or anything like that.

[aussie]

In Summary:

Looking through western eyes: They should simply go home or find another job.

In Reality: That’s sometimes impossible.

What should we do: Practice being compassionate and understanding, and thank God that we have life so much better.

Adding to Dodger's observations:

At this stage of the pandemic some Thai boys are being told by their families not to return home in the countryside because the family is afraid that their son will be bringing Covid back with with them. I have a friend who recently returned to Isaan, only to be told to stay away by his family and he ended up sleeping in a tent in a rice field with siblings dropping off food nearby. He will probably have to return to Pattaya.

As to finding a job, employers like many of the department stores and others require a certified level of education. Before Covid, some of the Thai boys who worked in bars were attending school on Sundays to get a certificate so that they could apply for these jobs. Along came Covid, the schools have only been open occasionally and their hopes of finding a job have been put on hold indefinitely.

[vnman]

Let me try to say this in a vacuum with some people -not on this board- in mind.


If you live on your parents money as a grown man, you are far from being a credible financial advisor.

How we spend our money is usually linked to how we earn it.

Easy come, easy go. Bravo to those who did something meaningful with their income.

Just in case; I am by no means implying that sucking Farang dick is easy.

[christianpfc]

And to add to Dodgers piece is of course the fact than many boys actually send money home.
You mean: sent money home?

Not sending money any more, even returning home, is a loss of face. But is sending money home a one-way road? The better ones earned enough to buy cars and build houses and buy land. Now they have somewhere to return to so sit this out.

Assuming sex workers have 10 years to earn big, they have lost 2 years already, which is 20%. Whereas for most of us the percentual loss is much smaller.


For example one guy I know is not Thai. He seems to have no Visa, no bank account, no money and when I sometimes “help” him I have to send it to one of his Thai colleagues. He is well and truly trapped in Pattaya.
One of my Khmer acquaintances was in a similar situation. No own bank account, I helped him twice I think, sending money to a friend's bank account. Then in Dec 2020 he made it to Pattaya (no visa), and complained about lack of customers. I told him before, and he could have asked his friends. He made it back to Cambodia a few months ago.


The only boy I know who has asked me to send money during the pandemic is one who has several farang sending money and he seems to spend it on clubbing etc.
None of the others have requested money or even hinted at it by suggesting times are hard or anything like that.
After some prodding "How are things?" - "No job, no money.", I sent money to a few boys who did not ask for money. The ones asking me for money always ask for money, even before Corona. But now I cut this back and instead support boys in Cambodia.

[goji]

Not sending money any more, even returning home, is a loss of face. But is sending money home a one-way road? The better ones earned enough to buy cars and build houses and buy land. Now they have somewhere to return to so sit this out.
Certain board members have already been critical of parents sending money to their offspring, but if we dared to cricicize the flow of money in the opposite direction, I suspect there would be howls of rage.

I also know at least one lad who has been in Pattaya for at least 10 years and has bought property back home in Laos. He knows this career has a finite lifespan. Others tend not to talk about such things & even this one only told me that rather late in his career.



One of my Khmer acquaintances was in a similar situation. No own bank account, I helped him twice I think, sending money to a friend's bank account. Then in Dec 2020 he made it to Pattaya (no visa), and complained about lack of customers. I told him before, and he could have asked his friends. He made it back to Cambodia a few months ago.
If this is who I think it is, he's not very good at actually getting customers. I had contact with him on Grindr when he arrived in Pattaya earlier in the year. Rather than trying to get a deal done with the prospective customer on the other end of the chat, it was all sob stories about a lack of customers.

[vnman]

Certain board members have already been critical of parents sending money to their offspring, but if we dared to criticize the flow of money in the opposite direction, I suspect there would be howls of rage.



I have not read that to be honest. I did read and write that accepting such monies should exclude you from giving financial advice. Especially someone from a developed country who has not been able to create his own financial nest egg but wants to tell someone in a third or developing country how to manage their funds.

At age 18 - 25 we aren't all that financial savvy. I can also imagine that boys in this line of work need some tension release and might overspend. It's hard to put myself in their place.

[goji]

I did read and write that accepting such monies should exclude you from giving financial advice.

As far as I'm concerned, the only qualification someone needs to give financial advice is that they give good financial advice.

That excludes a lot of "professional" financial advisers who sometimes recommend expensive investments, purely because they get kickbacks. I recall a good friend who moved all his pensions after advice from a "financial advisor". I queried the fees and was told it's just over 1% per annum. I queried if that included both the platform management fee AND the fee for the funds. I encouraged my friend to check the documentation thoroughly. He was livid when he discovered the total of fund fees and platform fees came to about 2.4% per year. Bear in mind he was over 20 years from retirement, so about 40% of his initial investment would go in fees over that period.
He moved his pension again without the hinderance of a financial advisor.

[latintopxxx]

you dont mention what his return on investment was...

[gerefan2]

As far as I'm concerned, the only qualification someone needs to give financial advice is that they give good financial advice.
.

You’ve probably heard this before but if they can give good financial advice why didn’t they listen to themselves and retire years ago?!

[arsenal]

I'm going to say this Christian. Living off of your parents money and living the life of an efete 19th century poet means you're simply not qualified to offer financial advice to anybody and certainly not a South East Asian sex worker.

[Dodger]

I don’t believe for one minute the “PANDEMIC crippled the world”.

The worlds reaction is the problem.

"Hear...hear...what's with all this dying nonsense".

[arsenal]

Welcome to Christianpfc's School of Financial Wizardry.

Syllabus.
Day 1. Get yourself well off parents.
Day 2. Graduation ceremony.

Having graduated from CSFW you can now use your newly acquired skills to negotiate cheap sex with many boys in a variety of countries. Higher level graduates of CSFW are often able to negotiate even lower rates in return for financial advice.

Please note that well off parents are not included in the price of the course and CSFW cannot act as a third party in securing such.

[Dodger]

I'm going to say this Christian. Living off of your parents money and living the life of an efete 19th century poet means you're simply not qualified to offer financial advice to anybody and certainly not a South East Asian sex worker.

Sometimes I think this is the way that all Thai boys view farang.

To them, we're all rich and spoiled with pampered lifestyles to begin with. And the fact that we give them so much money (in their terms) for receiving so little in a return (a one hour roll in the hay) makes us a bit naïve and gullible in their eyes as well.

In their eyes, they're not the ones who need financial advice - WE are.

[latintopxxx]

dodger....do u think the gogos live under a rock....???...they all have access to TV/internet/MTV...they know how we live in the west/japan/korea....etc...they are fully aware that bht1000 is the price of a mains in an average restaurant back home...u must still think that the natives are all stooopid and uneducated

[gerefan2]

.they are fully aware that bht1000 is the price of a mains in an average restaurant back home...

BUT they are not fully aware that bht6000 is the price of a fuck in an average city back home...

[Dodger]

dodger....do u think the gogos live under a rock....???...they all have access to TV/internet/MTV...they know how we live in the west/japan/korea....etc...they are fully aware that bht1000 is the price of a mains in an average restaurant back home...u must still think that the natives are all stooopid and uneducated

You're missing my point.

They know exactly what our money buys us back in our homelands...no argument there. But the fact that we can spend 1000 baht on a meal without batting an eye makes us appear wealthy to them, as compared to their standards.

The average working boy see's farang as being wealthy...spoiled (having everything that they want)...and being terrible at managing money, solely based on what they see farang spending on sex (and other obsessions). They appreciate it, don't get me wrong, but according to what I've heard from the working boys who I've befriended over the years, this is how the average farang is viewed.

The irony here, is that they're absolutely right.

[goji]

You’ve probably heard this before but if they can give good financial advice why didn’t they listen to themselves and retire years ago?!
Some do and manage to retire at around 50, off their own earnings & investments. Others even earlier.



BUT they are not fully aware that bht6000 is the price of a fuck in an average city back home...
Probably just as well, as ultimately the price is set by the local market. Anyone going to Pattaya does not expect to be paying Zurich prices for food, hotels and hookers.
Those working in Thailand should optimize to maximize income in the local market, unless of course they can find some loophole which allows them to go and work in a high income country. Which seems to be very rare.

[Dodger]

Those working in Thailand should optimize to maximize income in the local market,

Let's not forget the fact that the money they charge for short-time sex is sometimes - what's referred to as a "loss-leader". Where the tip is appreciated, but they're more interested in the long-term residual financial benefits., This is where those regular monthly contributions start hitting his bank account when the farang is back in his home country.

I would wager, that on average, the tips a working boy earns are probably slightly less than half of his total earnings. That's just throwing a dart of course..as each boy has his own earning potential.

Thai sex workers have been honing their skills at this for centuries.

I overheard a farang talking in a bar once who was ecstatic over the fact that he was enjoying wonderful sex with a bar boy who was shacking up with him for the entire length of his holiday and only giving him 500 baht a day for his services. Ten minutes later he was showing his friends pictures of the house he just had built for the boys mother. What was really amusing (to me anyway) was later that evening the farang's "boy" walked into the bar with a swagger like Captain Jack Sparrow wearing a gold necklace that was so heavy he could hardly hold his head up straight...LOL.

[a447]

BUT they are not fully aware that bht6000 is the price of a fuck in an average city back home...

I also don't think our friends in Thailand understand that for many of us, sex in their country is an absolute bargain - at home I'm paying around 5 times what I pay in Pattaya. Mind you, nobody has ever asked me about how much I pay in Australia. So I'm happy to spend a little extra by taking them out to nice restaurants of their choice and buying them some clothes. Nothing over the top but just an extra way of thanking them. And I still come out on top.

Dodger's observation regarding how the boys see us as being wealthy and spoilt is spot on, IMHO. As for being seen as "naive" or "gullible", I'm not so sure. Maybe they see us as being generous because they know we can well afford to be. In which case I'm surprised they don't charge us more!

Shhh...

[Oliver2]

True enough but there are also misapprehensions on the part of the Thais. They see how much we spend on air travel and usually on hotels and these expenses, to them, are so enormous compared to how their parents live that they assume we have unlimited wealth. Few of us do, and this is particularly true of some expats.

I spent a lot of time trying to get through to P that my income, totally dependent on pensions, is more than adequate for what I do in Thailand and for supporting him but is not unlimited. I think- and hope- that he understands this but I still use certain manoeuvres to hammer it home. For example, if he wants large amount- most recently for a new motor cycle, the cost of which was way beyond his resources- I told him he must wait a few weeks until I had money in my account.

One of his friends visited his falang in London a few years ago. It was not a success. The falang lived in a small apartment in the suburbs. Not an interesting area by any description. The Thai was left alone while the falang worked and he was bored, there was little for them to do, the falang couldn't spend money like he did on his annual holiday, was too tired in the evening anyway....and so on. But most of all, the living standards weren't what he expected. A cramped flat in a tower block surprised and disappointed him after experiencing 4* hotels in Pattaya.

[Old git]

So.. when WILL Thailand get back to tourist normal?

Vaccination seems really good at reducing severity, but if it was good at stopping spread, the UK would be post-Covid by now. In the UK, a snapshot survey of people around the country suggested that most won't know if they've got it because they won't bother to test if they only have mild symptoms, and more telling, most said that if they tested positive, they wouldn't formally become a statistic and put people through the grief being pinged. There's a strong indication that the reported 200k cases per week is probably a million or more.

With around 96% showing antibodies, that has to be a lot of people with antibodies getting infected now - but so far, people getting the bug more than once is very rare, so there's hope that once the great majority have had an encounter with the real McCoy, as opposed to the vaccine, cases will subside.

What is the real number in Thailand? is 150k recorded cases per week really one million? Maybe two million..?

In Europe, Covid fatigue is setting in - people are getting resigned to living with it, and getting their lives back.

- When will Thailand buy the same narrative, and open the tourist flood gates again?

Are they ready to lose another high season - or not..?

[goji]

So.. when WILL Thailand get back to tourist normal?

Vaccination seems really good at reducing severity, but if it was good at stopping spread, the UK would be post-Covid by now. In the UK, a snapshot survey of people around the country suggested that most won't know if they've got it because they won't bother to test if they only have mild symptoms, and more telling, most said that if they tested positive, they wouldn't formally become a statistic and put people through the grief being pinged. There's a strong indication that the reported 200k cases per week is probably a million or more.

With around 96% showing antibodies, that has to be a lot of people with antibodies getting infected now

"when will Thailand get back to normal" ought to be a separate topic and is worthy of that.

I went into London on the train recently. For the first time since March 2020, the train was nearly full and perhaps less than 10% were wearing masks. Now they have the vaccine, most do not expect to get severe infections and want to get on with their lives as normal. There is so little fear they don't even want to wear a mask. (I wore an FFP2 mask).

I suspect that if Thailand sustains over 0.4m vaccines per day for the rest of the year, they will also be looking to get back to normal later in the year.

Incidentally, the UK antibody stats are for over 18s only. The antibody incidence rate in under 18s is likely to be far lower.

[Old git]

Incidentally, the UK antibody stats are for over 18s only.

UK serovalence data is derived from blood donations, which is not a perfect demographic, by any means. However, given the evident incautious interraction of schoolkids out of school in my area ever since the schools returned, I would surmise that if it was going to take off amongst that cohort, it would have done so some time ago. It's a pity they have not been formally surveyed.


Another finding from the snapshot survey was that two thirds of people know someone in their immediate circle of friends and family who have been both double vaxxed and subsequently infected.

[christianpfc]

I have not read that to be honest. I did read and write that accepting such monies should exclude you from giving financial advice. Especially someone from a developed country who has not been able to create his own financial nest egg but wants to tell someone in a third or developing country how to manage their funds.

At age 18 - 25 we aren't all that financial savvy. I can also imagine that boys in this line of work need some tension release and might overspend. It's hard to put myself in their place.

I was (financially savvy at the age 18-25, even before).


I'm going to say this Christian. Living off of your parents money and living the life of an efete 19th century poet means you're simply not qualified to offer financial advice to anybody and certainly not a South East Asian sex worker.

I worked a few years in my profession, but due to various circumstances beyond the scope of this board, and due to my parents' support, I'm now in kind of early retirement.

Or as I like to tell it: my parents earned enough money so they can now support themselves, me and a cat. That earning money was in a time of tremendous changes (fall of the wall, 90's), and they didn't earn that money from whining about the good old times, but from hard work and taking risks. And I didn't get to where I am now from whining about the good old times, but from moving my ass.

[christianpfc]

dodger....do u think the gogos live under a rock....???...they all have access to TV/internet/MTV...they know how we live in the west/japan/korea....etc...they are fully aware that bht1000 is the price of a mains in an average restaurant back home...u must still think that the natives are all stooopid and uneducated
They watch Western/Korean/Japanese TV, but that doesn't mean they know how we live.
Anecdote from friends who spent some time in Africa, retold from memory:

African: I want to go to Europe.
German: Why do you want to go to Europe?
African: Because everyone in Europe has a house and a garden and a car.
German: That's not true. Many people don't have a house and garden or a car.
African: You are lying. I saw it on TV, with my own eyes!

Or a recent example of a Westerner in Cambodia whose wife thought that money comes out of an ATM, i.e. by some kind of sorcery he has that card that can get money out of ATM, and she can't because she is not privy to that sorcery.

[goji]

I was (financially savvy at the age 18-25, even before).
I was at least trying, since I'd read the financial pages in the newspapers from about 11 years old. I bought my first stocks at under 20, but to be honest that was just stagging privatizations with the pittance I had at the time. There is no barrier to learning young if motivated.

Meanwhile, I've even seen mature farang who visit Thailand still getting suckered into all sorts of nonsense, such as blatant pyramid selling schemes & falling for any over hyped investment scheme. Aspirations of achieving financial independence within 5 years failing, due to one idiotic decision after another.
Thankfully, these seem to be in the minority,

[francois]

Or a recent example of a Westerner in Cambodia whose wife thought that money comes out of an ATM, i.e. by some kind of sorcery he has that card that can get money out of ATM, and she can't because she is not privy to that sorcery.

All the boys I know think the same, farang's money comes out of an ATM, without limit.

[arsenal]

Christian and Francois seem to be mixing with boys from the Willy Wonka Chocolate Factory. If anyone thinks that money simply comes out of an atm then it's Christian.

The boys I know have a very good idea of how much money they need every month for rent, food, motorbike payments etc. They know the going rate for their services be it short time, long time or fun in the bar. In short, they know the value of money and what it takes to get it. Only a very few fresh off the Isaan Sexpress think a farang knight on a white steed is going to whisk them away to paradise.

[Dodger]

It doesn't matter how much money a person has, or how they obtained their money. The "Quality" of a person can be seen by how much compassion and generosity they show others who are less fortunate. IMHO...the rest is just bullshit.

The majority of working boys look for these characteristics in all of us, and react to us as appropriate. If you're judged as being jai dee, (translated as someone who is behaving in a way that shows you care about other people) then the world's your oyster, but if you think your money can buy you this level of respect with a Thai you're in for a huge disappointment.

[goji]

It doesn't matter how much money a person has, or how they obtained their money. The "Quality" of a person can be seen by how much compassion and generosity they show others who are less fortunate. IMHO...the rest is just bullshit.

The quality of a person has nothing to do with money, but it's money that puts food on the table, pays for accommodation & other expenses. Which is what I think the tread is about.

[Dodger]

The quality of a person has nothing to do with money, but it's money that puts food on the table, pays for accommodation & other expenses. Which is what I think the tread is about.

I could be wrong, but I think we're saying the same thing.

[latintopxxx]

dodger lives in lala land...

[Dodger]

dodger lives in lala land...

Hard to disagree with that one.

[Dodger]

Walking Street Gogo Dancer says..."open by years end or I go home". (link to article below)

Nothing really remarkable about the story itself, but I did find a point that the girl made interesting. She said that if her farang sponsor from England stopped sending her money she'd have to leave Pattaya and return home to sell food at her local market.

I couldn't help but wonder what the girl's been telling her generous farang sponsor this whole time. Does he think she's actually back home selling food at the market while he's back in his home country - or is he OK with the fact that she's patiently waiting to shag customers on Walking Street while he's away?

Only in Thailand!

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/former-walking-street-go-go-dancer-declares-open-pattaya-by-year-end-or-i-go-home-368495

[christianpfc]

And from the other tourists' side, a lot of people are looking for alternatives. I went to Brazil last year, because Brazil was open and Thailand was not, and liked it there and will go back (at the expense of time spent in Thailand). Now I'm in Cambodia because it was easier to get here and it is easier to stay here long time for me, because Thailand didn't get their shit together in time.

Many others I spoke to will go where-ever warm/cheap/boys, and if Thailand is too slow in opening, or conditions are too unfavorable, will go somewhere else.

[francois]

Many others I spoke to will go where-ever warm/cheap/boys, and if Thailand is too slow in opening, or conditions are too unfavorable, will go somewhere else.

A better word would be affordable boys. Cheap has some undesirable connotations such as "of little account; of small value; mean; shoddy."

[latintopxxx]

...so funny....a Frenchman I presume givng a German english lessons...

[arsenal]

Sadly Latin the under the carpet backstairs truth about Francois has been revealed in all its gory sordid detail. He's actually American.

[Sen Yai]

...so funny....a Frenchman I presume givng a German english lessons...

....He's actually American

So, an American giving English lessons to a German? Even funnier!

[francois]

Christian's written English is excellent, much better than most native English speakers. My comment was to point out that the word "cheap" has some negative connotations.
Christian has always asked for corrections or suggestions if he makes an error or a faux pas. Or perhaps some of you may disagree with my comment on the use of the word "cheap" to describe a Thai?

[latintopxxx]

....u the one with the tank with 11 reverse gears...relax....just pulling your leg

[dinagam]

Better still... just spreading his legs.

[Jellybean]

Better still... just spreading his legs.

And on that subject dinagam, such advice should be followed by Thai Sex Workers in Chonburi when social distancing as it was endorsed by no less a figure than the New Zealand Covid-19 response Minister, Chris Hipkins:


https://youtu.be/mLvYWhdaJk4

[bkkguy]

Or perhaps some of you may disagree with my comment on the use of the word "cheap" to describe a Thai?

I have had many friends comment to me over the past 20 years that you only need to follow the nightly news to see how cheaply the value of a life is held in Thailand

[christianpfc]

A better word would be affordable boys. Cheap has some undesirable connotations such as "of little account; of small value; mean; shoddy."

warm/cheap/boys is meant as a shorthand for "warm weather, cheap living conditions (that includes affordable boys), available boys to my taste", the three things I look for in a holiday destination. If one is missing, my interest falls significantly.

Thanks for pointing out the negative connotations of "cheap", actually it's the same in German (billig), and we have to find the right word as well to distinguish "value for money" or "affordable" or "inexpensive" from "cheap".

[francois]

....u the one with the tank with 11 reverse gears...relax....just pulling your leg

Say it ain't so; I have believed every word you have ever written on this forum!:heart: