Cambodia during the pandemic

[christianpfc]

I've spent a long time just hoping that I'd soon be back in Thailand.

I've now let go of that hope and feel a lot better for it. Rather than looking forward to a trip this year or early next year, I've come to the unfortunate conclusion that I won't be travelling anywhere overseas until at least 2023.

So if I have to worry, I'll worry about something else instead.

I was in the same situation in October 2021. After the botched STV, I realized that I might have to wait a very long time, reading news and pondering my possibilities every day, until Thailand comes with something that would work for me. It was a relief to give up on Thailand for the close future (6 month) and pursue alternatives. South America or Cambodia, finally Cambodia made it and I'm glad I'm here despite all the trouble and expenses it took!

At the moment, I'm slightly optimistic to be back in Thailand end of this year. I'm not afraid of Covid, I'm just waiting for better entry conditions and end of their internal travel restrictions. Better free travel in Cambodia (not any more starting tomorrow, but still better than Thailand), than being in Thailand but limited travel.

[Manforallseasons]

I was in the same situation in October 2021. After the botched STV, I realized that I might have to wait a very long time, reading news and pondering my possibilities every day, until Thailand comes with something that would work for me. It was a relief to give up on Thailand for the close future (6 month) and pursue alternatives. South America or Cambodia, finally Cambodia made it and I'm glad I'm here despite all the trouble and expenses it took!

There is a sub forum here for Cambodia yet no one including you have posted anything there since last November!

[goji]

There is a sub forum here for Cambodia yet no one including you have posted anything there since last November!

As far as I know, Christian is the only board member who made it to Cambodia during the pandemic. To get there, you have to blag a business visa.
Christian posts on an excellent blog: https://christianpfc.blogspot.com/

The latest post is on Sihanoukville, which seems to have suffered a lot of horrendous high rise construction since I was last there.

[christianpfc]

There is a sub forum here for Cambodia yet no one including you have posted anything there since last November!

Parts of my post about Thailand in green, parts about Cambodia in red:

I was in the same situation in October 2021. After the botched STV, I realized that I might have to wait a very long time, reading news and pondering my possibilities every day, until Thailand comes with something that would work for me. It was a relief to give up on Thailand for the close future (6 month) and pursue alternatives. South America or Cambodia, finally Cambodia made it and I'm glad I'm here despite all the trouble and expenses it took!

At the moment, I'm slightly optimistic to be back in Thailand end of this year. I'm not afraid of Covid, I'm just waiting for better entry conditions and end of their internal travel restrictions. Better free travel in Cambodia (not any more starting tomorrow, but still better than Thailand), than being in Thailand but limited travel.

[goji]

This is a slight misrepresentation of procedures. To enter Thailand, you have to apply for a COE (not required for Cambodia), and you have to submit your ASQ booking. There is an initial outlay of money for the booking, at least a partial payment. Some hotels want full payment and don't allow cancellations or alterations!

As I understand it in Cambodia:
Pay out $2000 deposit (THB 66,000) & after quarantine, go to collect what is left after quarantine hotel charges from a specified bank.
There is a slight advantage as you don't part with the $2000 until arriving in Cambodia.
There is a disadvantage as I understand it's more difficult to choose the quarantine hotel ?

As it was in Thailand:
The ASQ hotel needs to be selected and booked before applying for the COE.
Prices started from just over THB 30000, but the choice and quality gets more interesting around the THB 50000 range.
Many ASQ hotels did have unreasonable cancellation terms, such as full payment when booking and no refunds less than 3 or 7 days before arrival. Totally useless if you fail the PCR test which had to be taken less than 72 hours before the date of departure.

The hotel I selected required only a deposit of THB 15000, with the remainder paid on arrival. They assured me that in the event of enforced cancellation, I would be entitled to a refund of all except the 2.5% credit card charge. I wrote that on the credit card authorization form, just in case the matter ever had to be discussed with the credit card company.

For me, the choice was simplified as the Cambodia Embassy in London were not replying to e-mails. Also they were reportedly less generous with their interpretation of criteria for getting a business visa than some other countries.

So:
Paying out £2k (THB66k) ON ARRIVAL in Cambodia is better than making a non-refundable Thai hotel reservation a couple of weeks in advance of travel (as the travel might not happen).
For anyone prepared to work at it, the majority of the Thai hotel charge can be paid upon arrival, therefore reducing the deposit at risk.

I think Thailand was probably the better choice for the winter months, but if intending to stay for over 9 months, as Christian has, a 12 month Cambodia visa is the safer option.
Thailand has of course been offering 60 day extensions for those "unable to return home", but without any checks on whether you could actually return home. This was not a known when Christian applied to go to Cambodia.

[siscu58]

At the moment, I'm slightly optimistic to be back in Thailand end of this year. I'm not afraid of Covid,

Do you intend to go to Thailand without being vaccinated and get in close contact with money boys, but you are not afraid? It's up to you, but It looks really risky to me in the current conditions.

[vnman]

I'm not afraid of Covid, ...

I know you to be an intelligent person, but this is beyond naive. This is not the first few months of 2020, when we didn't know much about it. Where it used to affect the elderly and those with underlying conditions, it has now become more of a lottery for younger and healthier people. You might not die or even end up in a hospital, you can still suffer from the aftermath for a long time. No amount of ass is worth that, especially when there is something on the market to protect yourself.

But maybe your reasoning is that you already tested positive last year? Past results might not guarantee future results, though.

[goji]

I know you to be an intelligent person, but this is beyond naive.

Despite all the scare stories printed in trashy newspapers such as the Guardian, the death rate in healthy under 50s is very low. An under 50 who probably has anti-bodies should not be spending his time worrying about covid.

[vnman]

Despite all the scare stories printed in trashy newspapers such as the Guardian, the death rate in healthy under 50s is very low. An under 50 who probably has anti-bodies should not be spending his time worrying about covid.

I don't disagree. I'm not worrying about getting into an accident when I step into my car. I know that I have taken precautions and accept a certain risk. So if "I'm not afraid of COVID" means; because I've taken precautions, I'm all on board.

[christianpfc]

As I understand it in Cambodia:
There is a disadvantage as I understand it's more difficult to choose the quarantine hotel ?

For me, the choice was simplified as the Cambodia Embassy in London were not replying to e-mails. Also they were reportedly less generous with their interpretation of criteria for getting a business visa than some other countries.

Thailand has of course been offering 60 day extensions for those "unable to return home", but without any checks on whether you could actually return home. This was not a known when Christian applied to go to Cambodia.
At the time I went to Cambodia, you could not choose your quarantine hotel (which is an advantage for me, one less thing to bother with). Now or soon they allow.

2000 USD deposit is great for US-Americans or others who have access to USD, but I had to exchange EUR to USD in Berlin at a loss of 5% against XE. It is said Cambodian immigration accepts other currencies and credit cards as well, but there is a danger of being refused by airline, and there are reports of people getting sent back because their credit card did not work.

I got a delayed, but positive reply from Cambodian embassy in Berlin. Processings there in person were much more pleasant than all Thai embassies I have been to (Berlin, Vientiane, Saigon).

I wonder if those visa extensions for those "unable to return home" work when you went from your home country to Thailand for a holiday and want to extend it. Last year, extension of extension (???) was only announced a few days before the current extension expired. I would not want to be in the country and counting days until my permission to stay expires, waiting for an announcement of a new extension and having to leave in a hurry or overstay if there is no new extension. And I wouldn't like going to immigration every time.


...but this is beyond naive.
...
But maybe your reasoning is that you already tested positive last year? Past results might not guarantee future results, though.
I tested positive last year without symptoms. As I see it, Covid is a hyped annual flue. No danger for the majority of the population, only for some at-risk groups.

[a447]

As I see it, Covid is a hyped annual flue. No danger for the majority of the population, only for some at-risk groups.

Well that was the case with the original alpha variant.

But delta affects people of all ages, including children and comorbidity isn't always a feature. And who knows what future variants will do? Who knows? A very dangerous Cambodian variant could suddenly appear!

Be careful!

[goji]

But delta affects people of all ages, including children and co-morbidity isn't always a feature.

The death rate amongst the under 50s is still very low, even with the delta variant. The Guardian and the BBC can always find some scare stories, but ignore those and look at the statistics. The risk is tiny for people in these age groups and the sensible ones know it.

After vaccination, the odds for all age groups improve considerably. Who knows what future variants will do, but I wouldn't sit here worrying about the unknowable.

[Uranus]

The Guardian and the BBC can always find some scare stories, but ignore those and look at the statistics.

I guess Fox News is your source of information on the Covid pandemic.

[goji]

I guess Fox News is your source of information on the Covid pandemic.

I check the data, since the average journalist cannot be relied upon to report accurately.
For the most recent month with a set of ONS data,(June 2021), Covid is not even in the top 10 for causes of death in England & Wales.

Also, since the start of the pandemic, the number of deaths within 28 days of a positive test in England & Wales are (for example)
Male 20~24: 39
Male 70-74: 7028

The 20~24 year old death rate is just over 0.5 deaths per week. That's deaths within 28 days of a covid test, so other causes of death are included within this stat.
Actually, the only person I knew who has died of covid was in his 80s, on his death bed anyway and caught covid in one of our hospitals. But he's counted as a covid death.

Also, the 0.5 deaths per week in the 20~24 year old group is mostly pre-vaccination. Once the vaccine effect kicks in, it's probably going to be under a tenth of that.
Being a few years past 50, I'm not worried about my chances of death post vaccination.
Those under 30 & in good health shouldn't be worried pre or post vaccination.

[gerefan2]

I wonder if those visa extensions for those "unable to return home" work when you went from your home country to Thailand for a holiday and want to extend it. Last year, extension of extension (???) was only announced a few days before the current extension expired. I would not want to be in the country and counting days until my permission to stay expires, waiting for an announcement of a new extension and having to leave in a hurry or overstay if there is no new extension. And I wouldn't like going to immigration every time.

I got one of those Visa Extensions in March. Just filled in the form (they ticked off “No flight available”), even though there were!

Took a few visits to Immigration as I applied in good time and they only gave it in chunks. I eventually got 60 days. I believe they are still doing it...

[Manforallseasons]

I tested positive last year without symptoms. As I see it, Covid is a hyped annual flue. No danger for the majority of the population, only for some at-risk groups.

Hmmm, so how many people do you think you’ve infected with the virus and just think how many they have infected! But if I read you right you think no big deal.

[christianpfc]

11364

[vnman]

Also, since the start of the pandemic

That's the point. Those numbers don't mean a thing with the new variants in play.

[vnman]

11364

Obesity is an underlying condition. Thailand also recognizes it as such.

[goji]

Obesity is an underlying condition. Thailand also recognizes it as such.

In most cases, it's a voluntary & self inflicted condition.

Anyone who thinks otherwise should ask themselves if the sudden increase in obesity in recent decades is due to either:
(i) A sudden change in the gene pool in the last 50 years, after thousands of years of slow evolution
OR
(ii) People eating too much trashy food and exercising less

[vnman]

In most cases, it's a voluntary & self inflicted condition.

Anyone who thinks otherwise should ask themselves if the sudden increase in obesity in recent decades is due to either:
(i) A sudden change in the gene pool in the last 50 years, after thousands of years of slow evolution
OR
(ii) People eating too much trashy food and exercising less

How is this even important? The point is that morbid obesity is an underlying condition, self-inflicted or not.

Maybe we should investigate if people with liver problems have not been excessive drinkers.

This is like a flashback to the HIV epidemic. Who's at fault because of unprotected sex (or even for being gay) and who isn't because of a blood transfusion.

[goji]

How is this even important?

Compared with your other 2 examples, obesity is the only condition that's easily reversible.

Also, when hospitals have too many patients and have to resort to triage to decide which patient gets the ventilator, it seems some countries have had policies of prioritizing individuals who are otherwise healthy. Then the lifestyle choices become important.

[vnman]

Compared with your other 2 examples, obesity is the only condition that's easily reversible.


Is that so doctor?

btw, I'm sure if you would ask anyone obese if it would be easier to lose weight or fuck with a condom... They would probably choose the latter.



Also, when hospitals have too many patients and have to resort to triage to decide which patient gets the ventilator, it seems some countries have had policies of prioritizing individuals who are otherwise healthy. Then the lifestyle choices become important.

Now, if you just wanted to express your feelings about obesity, mission accomplished. The point still stands that it's an underlying condition. It seems that you don't have an argument that contradicts this.

[christianpfc]

I am surprised to see tourists. I see a lot of younger farang in this evening video. So not just pensioners what I had expected. I guess they went for the two week quarantaine option. But why? It looks pretty dead.
Not necessarily. Here in Cambodia are a lot of young (average age 30?) people who are here on some kind of business / job / digital nomad, and have been here since before Covid. I have met dozens of young and only few old Foreigners (mostly White) in Cambodia.

[AsDaRa]

Not necessarily. Here in Cambodia are a lot of young (average age 30?) people who are here on some kind of business / job / digital nomad, and have been here since before Covid. I have met dozens of young and only few old Foreigners (mostly White) in Cambodia.

The advantage for them is you don’t need to make that much money every month if you stay in Cambodia. I think with 500 EUR a month you can live a nice middle class life there. 100 EUR for rent of a room. 100 EUR food per month. 300 EUR left for nice things.

These digital nomads can this way easily out compete young people living in richer countries. They just can do the same job for a far lower fee.

Or as I said before. It are students. Classes are online now. They just stay in Cambodia living from monthly allowance parents and follow the classes online. For the exam periods they fly back home

[goji]

The point still stands that it's an underlying condition. It seems that you don't have an argument that contradicts this.

I don't disagree. It's an underlying condition that's ALSO voluntary and self inflicted (in almost all cases).

Since that's reversible by just a little bit of self control, such people can make their own choices. They shouldn't expect to be prioritized above others for medical care.