Poll: Under which Quarantine conditions would you holiday in Thailand?

[Kenny]

With the Phuket Sandbox area quarantine option about to launch, it seems like a good time to poll forum users about their preferred options for holidaying in Thailand.
"Quarantine" here may be taken to mean both hotel quarantine and area quarantine such as the Phuket Sandbox arrangement.

[StevieWonders]

It’s a fairly simple alternative: which way do you prefer to be miserable before you can get to Pattaya (or wherever else you’re really going)? Note: there is no 7-day alternative for Phuket. It morphed into 14 days a few weeks ago.

Pay 60,000 baht all-up, 3 meals-a-day locked in your 32 square metres hotel room and only Mr Hand for sexual companionship
Pay considerably less for hotel and meals-when-how-and-where-you-choose unlocked on a 576 sq km island with the possibility of a hand job in the shopping mall public lavatories or even, just possibly, massage shop

Either way there’s the absolutely outrageous, budget-breaking, 50 baht/day COVID insurance policy blueskytoday keeps whining about.

Your choice.

[goji]

I have done the 14 day hotel quarantine in Thailand (=15 Nights).

The quarantine is the one part of the trip I'd rather not repeat. However, if that's my only holiday option next winter, I would repeat the experience & have voted accordingly.
In practice, I expect to have the choice of "Sandbox" options and countries with 7 day or no quarantine.

[latintopxxx]

if it was at a beach side resort ...no problem...spend the day on the beach...beer...perving at the talent..

[Dodger]

if it was at a beach side resort ...no problem...spend the day on the beach...beer...perving at the talent..

Sounds like what I do now, and I'm already here.

[Manforallseasons]

I live here so my viewpoint is different. Originally I came not for the weather or the food but for the reason most of you came however, having witnessed the demise of the gay venues over the many years living here if this was not my home I wouldn’t rush back.

[Brad the Impala]

I live here so my viewpoint is different.

And your viewpoint is therefore clearly not the viewpoint being solicited in a poll Under which Quarantine conditions would you holiday in Thailand?

[Brad the Impala]

Sounds like what I do now, and I'm already here.


So you would therefore have no problem with a quarantine period that allows you to travel all over Phuket doing just that!

[StevieWonders]

And your viewpoint is therefore clearly not the viewpoint being solicited in a poll …I’m guessing any soliciting will be done by the Phuket money boys :devilsh:

[Dodger]

So you would therefore have no problem with a quarantine period that allows you to travel all over Phuket doing just that!

Is that a question?

[goji]

I live here so my viewpoint is different. Originally I came not for the weather or the food but for the reason most of you came however, having witnessed the demise of the gay venues over the many years living here if this was not my home I wouldn’t rush back.

1 When deciding where to take a holiday in the winter of 2021, people compare the alternatives available in 2021, pick the best and then enjoy it as best they can.
Until someone invents time travel, we needn't compare Thailand today with Thailand 20 years ago when making the decision.
We compare with Cambodia, Vietnam, The Philippines, Myanmar etc. All as of 2021. Simple.

How good it was 20 years ago is totally irrelevant when deciding where to take a vacation now.


2 You wouldn't holiday in Thailand, but are prepared to continue living there ? Sometimes it is best to judge people by their actions rather than their words.

"The world is your lobster" -Arthur Daley

[StevieWonders]

2 You wouldn't holiday in Thailand, but are prepared to continue living there ? Sometimes it is best to judge people by their actions rather than their words.

"The world is your lobster" -Arthur DaleyApparently it’s fabulously easy for someone to leave his old life completely and migrate to a very foreign country not once but twice (and the second time without going back to his own country first. Perhaps goji can give us tips from his vast personal experience and how many times he’s done it.

[Dodger]

I live here so it really doesn't matter.

BUT...if I was coming to Thailand for a holiday I would only accept a short (7 day max) area quarantine if I could still go to the beach...the bars...the local entertainment venues...with boys around so I could enjoy sex. If the bars and entertainment venues were closed and there were no available boys around, it wouldn't be a holiday and I wouldn't come. I'd just hop a short flight to Mexico where I could sip tequila and lick the salt off the rims of a few burritos.

[cdnmatt]

I'd be moving to Asia, so the quarantine restrictions don't really matter to me.

What matters to me is me doing my own research about the current situation, and whether or not I deem it safe. Right now, not a chance I'd go to Thailand even if I could.

[Blueskytoday]

It’s a fairly simple alternative: which way do you prefer to be miserable before you can get to Pattaya (or wherever else you’re really going)? Note: there is no 7-day alternative for Phuket. It morphed into 14 days a few weeks ago.

Pay 60,000 baht all-up, 3 meals-a-day locked in your 32 square metres hotel room and only Mr Hand for sexual companionship
Pay considerably less for hotel and meals-when-how-and-where-you-choose unlocked on a 576 sq km island with the possibility of a hand job in the shopping mall public lavatories or even, just possibly, massage shop

Either way there’s the absolutely outrageous, budget-breaking, 50 baht/day COVID insurance policy blueskytoday keeps whining about.

Your choice.

I have seen several occasions...upon arrival in Thailand an insurance policy of USD$100,000 is required.......which is why I whine about it......If I can get policy for 50Baht a day great...but no way to get such prior to arrival I assume......so guess I am still whining...

[StevieWonders]

I have seen several occasions...upon arrival in Thailand an insurance policy of USD$100,000 is required.......which is why I whine about it......If I can get policy for 50Baht a day great...but no way to get such prior to arrival I assume......so guess I am still whining...
As I and others have posted many times when you have raised the issue, there are links online on Thai Consulate pages worldwide. I’ve even posted a link at least twice to a company that will insure those over 75. Now get back to your whining.

[goji]

I have seen several occasions...upon arrival in Thailand an insurance policy of USD$100,000 is required.......which is why I whine about it......If I can get policy for 50Baht a day great...but no way to get such prior to arrival I assume......so guess I am still whining...

Unless they have changed the procedure, you buy the insurance in advance. Got mine with AXA Thailand. Apply on line & they e-mail the pdfs. Easy.
Those who actually want to go to Thailand will overcome these minor problems.
However, it is just a money making scam with what looks like a loss ratio of under 10%. No competitive insurance market operates like that.


To add a bit more positivity: 44 baht to the pound. :)

[StevieWonders]

Unless they have changed the procedure, you buy the insurance in advance. Got mine with AXA Thailand. Apply on line & they e-mail the pdfs. Easy.
Those who actually want to go to Thailand will overcome these minor problems.
However, it is just a money making scam with what looks like a loss ratio of under 10%. No competitive insurance market operates like that.
Thailand - the Land of Scams

[a447]

Posts discussing/questioning Matt's blindness have been moved here:

https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?22224-Discussion-of-blindness

A447
Moderator

[goji]

According to the BBC, the first tourists have arrived in Phuket for the sandbox scheme.

If there is no better deal by winter, spending 2 weeks in Phuket then a few months anywhere in Thailand will seem fairly good compared with the British winter.

[cdnmatt]

According to the BBC, the first tourists have arrived in Phuket for the sandbox scheme.

If there is no better deal by winter, spending 2 weeks in Phuket then a few months anywhere in Thailand will seem fairly good compared with the British winter.

The "British winter"?

Most Canadians would call that an oxymoron. :)

[Brad the Impala]

The "British winter"?

Most Canadians would call that an oxymoron. :)

We're sensitive souls compared to you rough Canadians.

[christianpfc]

I voted 14 days, but my situation is a bit different. I don't go for holiday, I want to spend extended time in and around Thailand (visa-free entry or tourist visa and visa runs), which would be extremely time consuming and expensive at the moment. If I could get a visa for at least 6 months, I would do 14 days quarantine in hotel or sandbox. For me, the crucial point is not the quarantine, but the time I can stay afterwards is not long enough to warrant the time and money spent in quarantine or sandbox.

[Dodger]

I voted 14 days, but my situation is a bit different. I don't go for holiday, I want to spend extended time in and around Thailand (visa-free entry or tourist visa and visa runs), which would be extremely time consuming and expensive at the moment. If I could get a visa for at least 6 months, I would do 14 days quarantine in hotel or sandbox. For me, the crucial point is not the quarantine, but the time I can stay afterwards is not long enough to warrant the time and money spent in quarantine or sandbox.

I imagine retires expats who have been stranded back in their home countries since this pandemic started would agree. I know I would if it was the only way for me to return.

[christianpfc]

It's not just the quarantine conditions, it's the general Covid situation in Thailand as well that influences my decision to got to Thailand or not. At the moment, with limited public life in Bangkok and travel restrictions for many provinces, there is little incentive to go to Thailand.

[arsenal]

"there is little incentive to go to Thailand."

Oh I don't know. Once you're out of Phuket you can enjoy lunch with migrant worker steviewonders and his friend (s).

[Dodger]

"there is little incentive to go to Thailand."

Oh I don't know. Once you're out of Phuket you can enjoy lunch with migrant worker steviewonders and his friend (s).

I thought all the migrant workers were quarantined in their work camps right now.

Is there a work camp on Soi 4/Silom?

[goji]

It's not just the quarantine conditions, it's the general Covid situation in Thailand as well that influences my decision to got to Thailand or not. At the moment, with limited public life in Bangkok and travel restrictions for many provinces, there is little incentive to go to Thailand.

As the poll title does not constrain us to considering immediate travel, I voted considering a time horizon of at least to the end of 2021.
During that time, winter will arrive in Europe and Thailand really ought to have vaccinated a few people and should be seeing a decline in severe covid cases.

[bullseye]

I won't return until quarentine is dispatched with.

[vnman]

It's not just the quarantine conditions, it's the general Covid situation in Thailand as well that influences my decision to got to Thailand or not. At the moment, with limited public life in Bangkok and travel restrictions for many provinces, there is little incentive to go to Thailand.

Agreed! I voted for 7 days, but what good will it do if there is nothing to do after the quarantine?

[gerefan2]

Agreed! I voted for 7 days, but what good will it do if there is nothing to do after the quarantine?

Yes agreed regular short term tourists need two things...no quarantine and entertainment open. End of.

[Dodger]

Yes agreed regular short term tourists need two things...no quarantine and entertainment open. End of.

Agree, thus the reason domestic tourism is at an incline in most countries right now.

[Kenny]

The poll has thrown up some very clear trends.

A few hardy stalwarts are willing to brave Quarantine in exchange for a winter of sun and whichever recreational distractions may continue to operate.
For the majority of us, however, Quarantine and holidays are mutually exclusive.

The current situation presents a triple-headed dilemma - the need to Quarantine in Thailand, the ongoing covid outbreak with its associated lockdown and the need to self-isolate for up to 14 days on return to your home country from a non-green list country.

These three issues will have to be resolved before short-term tourism can return in any meaningful sense.

So, when will Thailand do away with Quarantine, emerge from the current covid wave and move onto the green list of covid-safe countries?
Any chance of meeting for a beer in Pattaya in December?

[cdnmatt]

Wouldn't worry too much about this, as if the numbers and prior 20 months of experience is anything to go off of, Thailand is about to descend into chaos starting right away.

I know I've written off this year already, as it's simply not going to happen. Plus seen a news report now, that I guess due to that large outbreak in India a few months back we now have the "Delta Plus" variant, which sure enough is more transmissible and lethal, blah, blah. Plus I'm pretty sure Canada is one of the most vaccinated countries in the world now, even way ahead of the US, so I'm pretty comfortable hanging out here for now.

This only goes away once we have 85%+ of the world's population fully vaccinated with quality vaccines, irregardless of any individual country.

[Dodger]

So, when will Thailand do away with Quarantine, emerge from the current covid wave and move onto the green list of covid-safe countries?

When they actually a get reliable vaccine(s)...vaccinate the majority of the population...and get the bars and prostitutes back into action.

Then, and only then will the things you listed get accomplished. All these Sandbox Schemes are doing is complicating the process and inducing more and more risk. No vaccine - and it's back to the Flintstone Days!

[cdnmatt]

Realistically, you're looking at another 3 years, afterwhich this will become more of an endemic than a pandemic. I think that's probably a realistic scenario.

We need to get this thing to stop mutating and evolving into stronger variants, and that's not going to happen until we have 80% of the world's population vaccinated. I think most nations in Africa are sitting at around 1% right now, so we still have a ways to go. Until then, this thing will continue mutating into stronger and more transmissible strains, and will continue to wreak havoc on the world.

Even once if and when we finally get the global pandemic under control, eradication of Covid is near impossible. Instead, it's more than likely going to turn into an endemic, so you'll still have to be cautious about it as it'll be around, but just not so much anymore. It's just something we'll learn to live with, and adopt into our daily lives.

[cdnmatt]

Here's a good example. Israel, a poster boy example of an excellent avvination rollout, is now having issues with variants. Cases have recently jumped by 50%.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz4uYqVxQss

[goji]

All these Sandbox Schemes are doing is complicating the process and inducing more and more risk. No vaccine - and it's back to the Flintstone Days!

The sandbox schemes introduce very little additional risk. Most of the virus mutations already get into Thailand over the borders from Myanmar or Cambodia.
Thailand either needs to control movement at all borders, or not bother. Controlling movement everywhere is difficult if sooner or later someone will take a bribe to let people through.
With covid widespread in Thailand, keeping controls now is like shutting the door after the horse has bolted.

Also, opening a Phuket sandbox is one way of testing out what works and what doesn't in a small & self contained part of Thailand.

[cdnmatt]

The sandbox schemes introduce very little additional risk. Most of the virus mutations already get into Thailand over the borders from Myanmar or Cambodia.
Thailand either needs to control movement at all borders, or not bother. Controlling movement everywhere is difficult if sooner or later someone will take a bribe to let people through.
With covid widespread in Thailand, keeping controls now is like shutting the door after the horse has bolted.

Also, opening a Phuket sandbox is one way of testing out what works and what doesn't in a small & self contained part of Thailand.


No, if you do things properly, the restriction of movement works and works well.

For one, restriction of movement drops case numbers so as to not overload a nation's healthcare system. This is well documented and proven now, as we've seen multiple healthcare systems getting blown out of the water now, most recently India.

Second, it's proven that the vaccines work and they work well. If you can restrict movement and buy enough time to get needles into arms, you're going to save a whole lot of lives that would otherwise be lost.

You seem to be under the impression that Covid is already here, so might as well just let it wash over the population, because hey, not that many percentage of people die anyway. We just recently did that in India, and it was an absolute nightmare. Canisters of oxygen were selling on the black market for 50x their list price. Do you really think that's a good model as to what everyone should fllow?

[vnman]

Here's a good example. Israel, a poster boy example of an excellent avvination rollout, is now having issues with variants. Cases have recently jumped by 50%.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz4uYqVxQss

Cases have jumped in holland too, this last week. 300.000 mostly young people were tested over the weekend, and that's where the big spike is coming from. What's important is that hospitalization is still going down and deaths too. When vaccinated people get infected but not seriously ill, I would say "mission accomplished." Hoping for more is just dreaming.

[Manforallseasons]

Cases have jumped in holland too, this last week. 300.000 mostly young people were tested over the weekend, and that's where the big spike is coming from. What's important is that hospitalization is still going down and deaths too. When vaccinated people get infected but not seriously ill, I would say "mission accomplished." Hoping for more is just dreaming.

Not sure what this has to do with Thailand? Thailand has a very small amount of people vaccinated and hospitals in the areas hard hit are full, actually two in Bangkok are refusing any new patients.

[cdnmatt]

Not sure what this has to do with Thailand? Thailand has a very small amount of people vaccinated and hospitals in the areas hard hit are full, actually two in Bangkok are refusing any new patients.

The more knowledge we have about the virus, the better prepared and informed we can be. For example, as I stated previously, more than likely Thailand is about to descend into a Inda type of chaos, and there's pretty much no way around that at this point. That's why I'm a little perplexed when folks like Dodger have made the decision to just wait it out, and see what happens. Well, we already know what's going to happen, and again, we have 20 months of data to back this up.

If I was in his shoes, I'd be same like fancois. My red flags would have been raised a while ago, and I'd have my flights booked to get myself vaccinated.


We have 20 months of data now, we know this.

[gerefan2]

If I was in his shoes, I'd be same like fancois. My red flags would have been raised a while ago, and I'd have my flights booked to get myself vaccinated.

..

Surely it’s not that simple?

If I had been living in Thailand for decades I’m sure I would not have anywhere I could return home to for several months while I wait for the second jab. It would mean siting it out in a motel or hotel for a long time and very costly.

You would need some very accommodating friends to avoid that.

There’s also the question of quarantine possibly at both ends. Another enormous expense, for those who have homes in Thailand.

Finally there’s the real possibility that Thailand could shut its borders again and you could be stranded far from your Thai home with a chance of becoming destitute.

Finally, how many expats have actually caught Covid in Thailand?i

[goji]

. Finally, how many expats have actually caught Covid in Thailand?i
I agree with all your comments, but in particular this one needs consideration.

Let's assume an expat had to wait 6 months for a vaccine, so what are his very rough odds of dying from covid during that time ?
We see Thailand has 2276 covid deaths out of a population of almost 70 million. Mostly in the last 2 months. So we could multiply that death number by 3 to get to 6 months AND multiply by 10 to be pessimistic, as cases are going up. Then multiply by 10 for those of a certain age. I make that about 0.1% chance of dying from covid.
I've ignored the opportunities to reduce risk, since members don't work in a 7-Eleven and commute to work on the Bangkok skytrain, but can actually minimize exposure for much of the day.

Despite the pessimism in calculating that, our hypothetical expat's chances of death from covid are still about an order of magnitude less than his chances of dying from something else in the same time. [Assuming he is of retirement age]


Meanwhile, we are already reading that some of the keener expats in Bangkok are getting vaccinated, which is why I assumed getting a vaccine within 6 months. Maybe less if following methods used by others.

[Dodger]

Despite the pessimism in calculating that, our hypothetical expat's chances of death from covid are still about an order of magnitude less than his chances of dying from something else in the same time. [Assuming he is of retirement age]

I agree, that statistically the odds of a retired expat dying from covid are very small, although there is another factor that I think needs to be considered, and that's the "Stress Factor".

The older we get the easier it seems to be to get stressed out, sometimes over situations where younger people wouldn't even bat an eye. The harmful effects of "Stress" are rated as one of the leading causes of death, not only in the older generation, but in all generations.

Fear, anxiety, and other negative emotions, resulting from extreme stress, can actually lower a persons immune system, and tax the heart and other vital organs as well causing premature death.

I don't know a single expat over here who has contacted covid, but, at the same time, I don't know a single expat who isn't stressed out over the situation either. Each person handles stress differently. Some seem to be handling this situation very well - and others are not.

So it's not so much about the odds of dying from the virus that older expats are concerned with, it's the solution to relieving their stress levels so they can return to living a stress-free life with a sense of security again.

The vaccine is the solution.

[goji]

The vaccine is the solution.

I agree.
However if you have (for example) a 1.2% chance of dying in the next 6 months without covid and that increases by 0.1% to 1.3% with covid, it wouldn't make sense to go on an overseas trip to get the vaccine and do 2 weeks quarantine upon return. Unless of course, that's a holiday you want anyway.

Copying the methods used by other people to get a vaccine is probably much easier.

Meanwhile, one esteemed board member was so happy with the odds, that he extended his Thai holiday despite being eligible for a vaccine back home in the UK (not me).

[Manforallseasons]

It won’t be for you to decide under what conditions you would return, regardless of what the government says sandbox or sandcastle the handling of vaccine procurement and distribution is appalling. My MD has no confidence in Sinovac of which all hospital staffs by now have gotten at least one dose, he said most well to do Thais are going to Europe or the U.S. for a vaccine. The P.M. went to see the opening of the Phuket sandbox and spoke to a businessman that was later Covid positive and now even though the P.M.who would not take Sinovac and insisted on Astra Zeneca now is in self isolation. The vaccine situation is an utter disaster frankly, I don’t think much will change till hopefully the second quarter of 2022 and it surely won’t be business as usual.

[vnman]

Not sure what this has to do with Thailand? Thailand has a very small amount of people vaccinated and hospitals in the areas hard hit are full, actually two in Bangkok are refusing any new patients.

Did you see that I was responding to a post?

[Manforallseasons]

Did you see that I was responding to a post?

My apologies.

[Brad the Impala]

Here's a good example. Israel, a poster boy example of an excellent avvination rollout, is now having issues with variants. Cases have recently jumped by 50%.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz4uYqVxQss

This may be related to the fact that Israel has been predominately vaccinating with the Pfizer vaccine, which is now seeming to be less effective against the Delta variant than previously thought, but still better than Sinovac.

FT STATES:
Efficacy of the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine against infection with the Delta variant of coronavirus is lower than initially thought, a study has revealed.

Data collected over the past month suggest the vaccine is 64 per cent effective at halting infection among those who are fully inoculated, down from a previous estimate of 94 per cent, Israel’s health ministry has found.

https://on.ft.com/3r25pcd

[francois]

.

Finally, how many expats have actually caught Covid in Thailand?i

I know one expat down the hall from my condo unit in Pattaya that did get Covid. Apparently he traveled around a bit in Thailand.I believe he recovered and returned although I never saw him either before or after this episode.

[Dodger]

[QUOTE=Manforallseasons;280440

......My MD has no confidence in Sinovac of which all hospital staffs by now have gotten at least one dose, he said most well to do Thais are going to Europe or the U.S. for a vaccine. /QUOTE]

According to my better half, none of his Thai friends or family members want any part of Sinovac for the reasons you mentioned.

He feels he's young enough to be able to recover from covid if he had to - without concerns about any side effects from a vaccine which is gaining a reputation for being "cheap Chinese garbage". I couldn't agree with him more.

The way Thailand is handling the vaccine procurement and distribution is beyond appalling...it's a disgrace.

[arsenal]

"The way Thailand is handling the vaccine procurement and distribution is beyond appalling...it's a disgrace."

It's entirely predictable as I did in fact, predict. This is a society where every decision made by any official has 'what's in it for me?' attached. This isn't like that, demand far outstrips supply so if there are any backhanders going then they're going the other way. This is far beyond the experience of almost any Thai in government.

The general probably couldn't get his head round the idea that he could spend billions on vaccines and not get his share of the cash.

[goji]

"The way Thailand is handling the vaccine procurement and distribution is beyond appalling...it's a disgrace."

It's entirely predictable as I did in fact, predict. This is a society where every decision made by any official has 'what's in it for me?' attached. This isn't like that, demand far outstrips supply so if there are any backhanders going then they're going the other way. This is far beyond the experience of almost any Thai in government.

The general probably couldn't get his head round the idea that he could spend billions on vaccines and not get his share of the cash.

Exactly. This probably explains why they have bought a Chinese vaccine, with suspect efficacy, since the vendors know how to incentivize the purchasing authority. Meanwhile there has been reluctance to buy vaccines from countries where bribery is illegal.

[goji]

This thread is a long way off topic.

Maybe the obnoxious hydras, trolls and grammar N@zis may have been at work, but I have no intention of checking. Perhaps the off topic material could be transferred to a sandbox ?

Back on topic, I expect out of the people who might holiday in Thailand, most of them would want Quarantine conditions which are predictable.
Not like the kind of shambles in Phuket, where people who share a plane with one person who fails a PCR test are sent to a quarantine hotel for 2 weeks, at their own expense.

[vnman]

Back on topic, I expect out of the people who might holiday in Thailand, most of them would want Quarantine conditions which are predictable.
Not like the kind of shambles in Phuket, where people who share a plane with one person who fails a PCR test are sent to a quarantine hotel for 2 weeks, at their own expense.

That's crazy indeed. If I remember correctly, Christian could have had the same problem in Cambodia.

Another reason NOT to go.

[Dodger]

[QUOTE=goji;280637

...... I expect out of the people who might holiday in Thailand, most of them would want Quarantine conditions which are predictable.[/QUOTE]

It's impossible to predict what's going to happen from one day to the next right now.

Planning holidays in the middle of this mess with predictable quarantines is like rolling the dice. Maybe you win. Maybe you lose. No one on earth can change those odds right now.

[a447]

goji wrote:


This thread is a long way off topic.

I agree. Some posts unrelated to this thread have been moved here:

https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?22259-Spillover-from-Poll-Under-which-Quarantine-conditions-would-you-holiday-in-Thailand

A447
Moderator

[goji]

It's impossible to predict what's going to happen from one day to the next right now.

#1 Whatever scheme Thailand introduces for tourists, it is clearly sensible to observe it in action for at least a couple of weeks before joining in. Let some other people be the guinea pigs & find out if people can be randomly incarcerated after 1 other person on the plane fails a PCR test. Or some other form of random & illogical discrimination against tourists.

#2 Unless someone has a serious reason to return to Thailand (e.g. home or family), it makes no sense to go there right now an uncontrolled rise in cases. After all, that could end up with a full lockdown, so not much of a holiday.

Now give it 5~6 months and even Thailand might have vaccinated the majority of the population and be past the current upward trend in cases.