Thai Prisons - A Death Sentence

[Dodger]

Thai prisons are now reporting thousands of covid cases, where before May 11th, there were no problems being reported in Thai prisons at all. Go figure!

Thanks to a courageous act by a young democracy activist who was recently released for the women's correctional facility in Bangkok, the word is now out. She posted the TRUTH on her Facebook account, and now, according to Jai, the internet is on fire with reports of other prisons scampering to disclose the truth about covid cases within their prison walls.

The lack of freedom of speech and freedom of press, coupled with the reality that Thai prisoners are not (and never have been) provided the level of humane treatment as required by Thai law, are undoubtedly contributing to this.

For those who don't know, Thai prisons are notorious for being over-crowded, and lack adequate on-site medical support to treat prisoners who are suffering from these types of illnesses. There are no effective preventive measures in Thai prisons to protect inmates from catching these types of virus's - and anybody who says there are is lying.

I have always found the conditions in Thai prisons, and level of concern shown for the humane treatment of those who are incarcerated, to be appalling, to put it mildly. Unfortunately, I was in a position once to gain first-hand knowledge of these things (as an observer - not an inmate), and regret that experience deeply. I find this current situation appalling as well, but in no way surprised at this. When you cram 60 prisoners in a 30 sqm cell block and force them to sleep on top of each other, using each others feet as their pillows, this type of virus superspreading event is simply inevitable.

Now, we can just sit back and see how many cases are getting reported now that their cover is blown. Jai told me that the numbers are already going through the roof this morning according to his Twitter feeds. (Story below):

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2117047/prison-covid-infections-rise-to-9-789-chiang-mai-highest

[cdnmatt]

Well, glad I'm no longer a guest of the IDC in Bangkok.

[StevieWonders]

I’m waiting for some statistics from other crowded dormitories - monasteries for example.

[arsenal]

Yes. The numbers of virus patients in Thai monasteries must surely be on everybody's mind.. We're all waiting for those aren't we!

Ooohhh. The excitement.

[latintopxxx]

I'll never understand the cruel undercurrent prevalent in the Thai world...on the face of it its a peaceful smiling polite live and let live society...but in reality..back at the ranch

[StevieWonders]

I'll never understand the cruel undercurrent prevalent in the Thai world...on the face of it its a peaceful smiling polite live and let live society...but in reality..back at the ranchI’m always staggered at how few people can want to spend time in Thailand and not read anything as basic as, say, Culture Shock, Thailand. Living proof I suppose of the loss of blood from the brain to the penis.

[Dodger]

I'll never understand the cruel undercurrent prevalent in the Thai world...on the face of it its a peaceful smiling polite live and let live society...but in reality..back at the ranch

I can't tell you how many times I've asked myself the same question.

[Oliver2]

And how it contrasts with the "compassionate" Buddha. Not just Thais, of course....some devout Christians in the USA have an indecent love of executions.

By the way, a small thing, but my Methodist upbringing made me offended when the presenter of the Pattaya FM news on Youtube, referred to the inhabitants of Pattaya's "monkey-house" as "jail-birds". Or "gaol-birds" as we Britons say. He must have been a reader of The Dandy and Beano as a child. My Sunday School education taught me that Bradshaw's comment as he saw a prisoner on his way to execution-"There but for the grace of God go I...."- was the Christian way.

[goji]

Now if the Thai, or any other judicial system passed a few basic tests, one could argue that prisons ought to be:
(A) Uncomfortable enough to be a suitable deterrent
and
(B) Low cost, so to avoid burdening the taxpayer unduly. After all, crime is voluntary and should not be encouraged.

My tests include:
1 Everybody in prison has been fairly convicted, with bribery and corruption having no influence on the process.
2 The offence justifies prison. Theft & violence, yes. Insulting someone's dog, well perhaps not ? Killing a police office in a hit and run case, probably yes.

I doubt Thailand passes either test, which is the real problem.

Also, even for those who deserve prison, they appear to be going a bit far with the uncomfortable conditions. Looks almost like waiting to board a Ryan Air flight at Luton.

[vnman]

I'll never understand the cruel undercurrent prevalent in the Thai world...on the face of it its a peaceful smiling polite live and let live society...but in reality..back at the ranch

A prisoner in the Netherlands costs 250 Euros per day. I just read that a Thai prisoner costs less than 100 baht.

[goji]

A prisoner in the Netherlands costs 250 Euros per day. I just read that a Thai prisoner costs less than 100 baht.

250 Euros per day just shows how far out of line prison costs are in some liberal western democracies. Many years ago, I heard it was about £1000 per week in the UK & is probably far worse now.
For 250 Euros a day I could live in a nice hotel and have 3 very good meals.

You'd think they could do prisons rather like a Travel Lodge, with bars. Now the Travel Lodge can be as little as £35 per night in the sticks. Add 3 meals and it is £50 per day, at one person per cell. Subtract a bit for economies of scale & add some for prison staff.

Or alternatively, it costs just a few pounds to rear a chicken for it's entire life, yet £250 per day in a Dutch prison. Somewhere between the chicken farm and the luxury prison should be a nice compromise for prisons that gets the right balance between a cheap deterrent and ostentatious luxury, whilst not fleecing the poor European taxpayer.

[vnman]

Or alternatively, it costs just a few pounds to rear a chicken for it's entire life, yet £250 per day in a Dutch prison. Somewhere between the chicken farm and the luxury prison should be a nice compromise for prisons that gets the right balance between a cheap deterrent and ostentatious luxury, whilst not fleecing the poor European taxpayer.

If costs per prisoner would determine how luxurious a prison is, then Guantanamo Bay with its $27000 cost per day would be a 7* hotel. :-)

[Manforallseasons]

https://pattayaone.news/50000-inmates-set-for-release-as-covid-explosion-hits-thai-prisons/

Covid expedites release of 50,000 prisoners.

[gerefan2]

https://pattayaone.news/50000-inmates-set-for-release-as-covid-explosion-hits-thai-prisons/

Covid expedites release of 50,000 prisoners.

I trust they will be going straight into long term quarantine...

[Dodger]

The number is now up to 11,670.

Why they didn't construct field hospitals to mitigate this risk a year ago is a real head scratch.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2117755/1-480-more-prison-covid-infections-raise-total-to-11-670

[dab69]

a year ago there were very few cases...

[mr giggles]

If costs per prisoner would determine how luxurious a prison is, then Guantanamo Bay with its $27000 cost per day would be a 7* hotel. :-)

In Australian Asylum Detention Centres, these are the annual costs, per person (according to the University of NSW)
-more than $346,000 to hold someone in detention in Australia;
-$103,343 for an asylum seeker to live in community detention in Australia; and
-$10,221 for an asylum seeker to live in the community on a bridging visa while their claim is processed.
Australia's policies of onshore and offshore detention, and of turning back boats, has cost $9.6 billion between 2013 and 2016

[Dodger]

a year ago there were very few cases...

Yes, but's that's exactly when they started doing "Risk Management" looking out at all the "what if's".

They did a great job with rusk mitigation overall, but obviously missed the potential risk associated with prisons, in the event even one inmate became infected with the virus due to the overcrowded conditions.

There are 143 prisons in Thailand housing roughly 334,000 inmates. According to reports which are available on-line, all of these prisons have reported being at way over-capacity (over-crowed) for several years running.

This is just like dropping a lit match on a dry forest - with no fire stations to put out the blaze.

Hopefully they can get a bunch of field hospitals funded and built quickly to house the infected inmates - or else they're going to need a lot of body bags.

A real mess!

[Oliver2]

The inevitable consequence of a "war on drugs" rather than an educational, community and medical approach. Look what it did to the US's Afro-American population and the consequent introduction of private enterprise prisons which need to be full to be profitable.

[christianpfc]

In Australian Asylum Detention Centres, these are the annual costs, per person (according to the University of NSW)
-more than $346,000 to hold someone in detention in Australia;
-$103,343 for an asylum seeker to live in community detention in Australia; and
-$10,221 for an asylum seeker to live in the community on a bridging visa while their claim is processed.
Australia's policies of onshore and offshore detention, and of turning back boats, has cost $9.6 billion between 2013 and 2016
These numbers seem high. But still, the Australian approach to immigration is much better than the German, which costs over 25b EUR per year (that's the number the government publishes, but there are more hidden costs), and cost dozens of Germans their life.

Anyway, isn't the Australian policy not to let anyone in the country in the quest for asylum, so those number all have to be multiplied by 0?

For Thai prisons, it should be easy to keep wardens and visitors apart from inmates, actually that's the purpose of a prison! Transmission of Covid from wardens and visitors to inmates is pure negligence in operating the prison.

Most inmates are probably young, but on the other hand they be in poor health from drugs or malnutrition (essential elements, amino acids and vitamins) and therefore more perceptible to Covid than their counterparts out of prison.

[vnman]

Anyway, isn't the Australian policy not to let anyone in the country in the quest for asylum, so those number all have to be multiplied by 0?


Funny :-) There is this program about immigration police in Australia. They do find them.




Most inmates are probably young, but on the other hand they be in poor health from drugs or malnutrition (essential elements, amino acids and vitamins) and therefore more perceptible to Covid than their counterparts out of prison.

That is a real thing, isn't it. I've been to the Bangkok Hilton one time to visit two Dutch/Chinese guys. Because of some misunderstanding, I was sitting in the visiting area for nothing because they didn't come. I was able to buy some stuff for them in the prison shop, though. They sold different kinds of vitamins and I'm sure they didn't go to waste.

[Dodger]

......For Thai prisons, it should be easy to keep wardens and visitors apart from inmates, actually that's the purpose of a prison! Transmission of Covid from wardens and visitors to inmates is pure negligence in operating the prison.

Agree totally.

The big problem facing most Thai prisons is the severely over-crowed conditions, and lack of basic hygiene in the cell blocks, which creates severe health concerns including Tuberculous, which, like the covid virus, is also airborne and rampant in Thai prisons.

It's for this reason that the prison guards don't even enter the cell blocks unless there's a mandatory prison search, and even then, the guards wear full military style face masks and rubber gloves.

Thai prisons rely of the assignment of Cell Boss's who actually perform the routine duties that prison guards perform in the West. They are usually big strong men, or big strong ladyboys in the ladyboy cells, who have gained favor of the prison officials, or known mafia members who have influence inside the prison walls. Cell Boss's of course breath the same infected air...bath in the showers which are contaminated with parasites', and get sick just like all prisoners. The actual prison guards of course are protected from this.

Prison guards never enter the cell blocks unprotected, and the only time you'd see a Warden anywhere near the prison, is if he's standing in front of the prison having his picture taken.

My former boyfriend died of Tuberculosis from breathing the air in his cell block. He said the guards didn't even enter the prison hospital for fear of breathing the air. After paying big money to get him transferred to a private hospital, the admitting doctor said immediately that there were no signs of him receiving any medication for his condition at the prison hospital, and, as a result, he only had a few weeks at best to live.

Most prisoners who suffer severe health problems aren't as fortunate as my boyfriend who received pain medication during his final days. They simply lay on a cot in the so-called prison hospital suffering until they have expired. Their bodies are wrapped in the same dirty sheets they were laying on in the hospital and burned. The family is notified, and the ashes are either discarded in a mass grave somewhere, or returned to the family.

Lovely story, isn't it.

[mr giggles]

These numbers seem high. But still, the Australian approach to immigration is much better than the German, which costs over 25b EUR per year (that's the number the government publishes, but there are more hidden costs), and cost dozens of Germans their life.

Anyway, isn't the Australian policy not to let anyone in the country in the quest for asylum, so those number all have to be multiplied by 0?

For Thai prisons, it should be easy to keep wardens and visitors apart from inmates, actually that's the purpose of a prison! Transmission of Covid from wardens and visitors to inmates is pure negligence in operating the prison.

Most inmates are probably young, but on the other hand they be in poor health from drugs or malnutrition (essential elements, amino acids and vitamins) and therefore more perceptible to Covid than their counterparts out of prison.

I agree, they are high figures, but a quick google search will confirm.
To answer your question, there are currently 1,527 people in detention facilities in Australia, according to my online research. You are correct that very few refugees arrive these days by boat, as they will be sent to an asylum center in places like Nauru Island or a center run by the Aust Govt in Papua New Guinea. The government has legalized indefinite arbitrary detention so there are far less asylum seekers than 10 years ago. (I have tried to verify these statements but it is a fluid situation and the govt doesn't like to publish all the facts).

[Dodger]

If anyone's interested in an update on the status of Covid in Thai Prisons, you can forget it.

For some reason, all major news outlets have stopped publishing articles in Thailand on the status of this outbreak in Thai prisons. This would include; The Bangkok Post, Thaiger, Reuters, CNN, Aljazeera, and others.

All major news outlets were providing daily updates on this story up until May 18, as the story was developing. Now, for some totally unexplainable reason (at least one they would rather not explain) the news has come to a screeching halt. I can't find an update on any news outlet after May 18. If anyone here has one please pass it along.

According to my better half, he has access to daily updates on his twitter and Facebook feeds, mostly coming from members (or supporters) of the Democracy Movement. Well, thank God there's at least an underground news outlet to tell people what's happening.

In short: According to what's being reported on the internet, the numbers of covid cases being found in Thai prisons are now skyrocketing out of control.

I wonder if this is why they told the Press to stop publishing the news? Just a thought!

[StevieWonders]

Goodness knows where Dodgems gets his news - here’s a report today on the prisons situation: https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/monday-covid-19-update-2713-new-cases-and-30-deaths

[arsenal]

I'm just relieved you weren't caught up in the Bangkok sauna raid. Nasty business.

[StevieWonders]

And here’s another story about COVID-19 and prisons in the mainstream media - the Bangkok Post no less. Perhaps Dodgems should schedule his cataract operations soon - https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2120351

[Brad the Impala]

Goodness knows where Dodgems gets his news - here’s a report today on the prisons situation: https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/monday-covid-19-update-2713-new-cases-and-30-deaths

That's a scary report, but very predictable.

[StevieWonders]

It’s in Thai (sorry) but here’s an infographic just published on the incidence of COVID-19 in Thai prisons (don’t tell Dodgems)

11129

[Dodger]

Pictures showing the overcrowded conditions in Thai prisons are apparently being circulated on the internet raising concerns among NGO's and other organizations, including Amnesty International.

The Utube video below includes a picture of a typical Thai prison cell. If you've never seen this before, you won't believe what you're seeing.

Updates on the covid numbers are dribbling out, and still show the reported cases skyrocketing. Chiang Mai and Bangkok prisons are carrying the brunt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZfDZw-19Ts

[Sen Yai]

And here’s another story about COVID-19 and prisons in the mainstream media - the Bangkok Post no less. Perhaps Dodgems should schedule his cataract operations soon - https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2120351

It would seem that there is little option for the prison communities than to allow nature to take its course: the virus is sweeping through resulting in herd immunity and survival of the fittest. It will be interesting to see if early vaccinations at prisons where no virus has yet been detected proves to be effective.

[Dodger]

It would seem that there is little option for the prison communities than to allow nature to take its course: the virus is sweeping through resulting in herd immunity and survival of the fittest.

Kinda like what's happening everywhere else right now.

[Brad the Impala]

Kinda like what's happening everywhere else right now.

Not at all. Much of the world has shielded the vulnerable and is now protecting many through vaccination. Pretty much the opposite of the "allowing nature to take it's course" policy in thai prisons.

[Dodger]

Not at all. Much of the world has shielded the vulnerable and is now protecting many through vaccination. Pretty much the opposite of the "allowing nature to take it's course" policy in thai prisons.

With the slow introduction of vaccines in our part of the world, peoples protection from this virus stems from their abilities to maintain social distancing, and of course wear face masks. Aside from these basic precautions, a person's safety and well-being is pretty much in his own hands until an effective vaccine is made available.

Just allowing nature to take its course inside Thai prisons isn't the right (or humane) approach at all, but all things considered, there don't seem to be any viable options. Government agency's have admitted to not having a budget for constructing enough Field Hospitals needed to provide temporary social distancing of prisoners in the short-term, and the overcrowding situation is so horrendously bad, that releasing 50,000 prisoners with low-level crimes at this juncture won't even put a dent in this problem.

I pray for a better outcome. At least one that's humane for the prisoners, but looking at this realistically, I just don't see any short-term solution that the Thai government would be willing to support financially.

Now that Amnesty International and a slew of NGO's have their teeth in this, there may be some incremental long-term improvements addressing the overcrowding situation and prison hygiene in general, but as far as the covid super-spreader they have on their hands right now, it looks like it's pretty much in the hands of Buddha.

[StevieWonders]

Singapore’s Channel News Asia is speculating that a provisional release may be being planned for some inmates of Thailand’s prisons - https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/thailand-covid19-prison-overcrowding-provisional-release-14878654

[Dodger]

As quoted from Aljazeera article linked below:

Human Rights Watch, a United States-based rights group, expressed concern over the COVID-19 outbreaks in prisons on Thursday, saying people in custody were at “grave risk”.

The group called on authorities to swiftly reduce overcrowding by releasing detainees who do not pose a threat to others and improving prisoners’ access to protective measures and healthcare.

“The Thai government is obligated under international law to ensure that prisoners and detainees have adequate health protections and care, particularly during escalating COVID-19 outbreaks,” said Brad Adams, the Asia director at Human Rights Watch.

End of quote.

Prisoners currently at risk in Thai prisons include Democracy Activists who are imprisoned for political reasons.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/13/thai-prisoners-at-grave-risk-amid-record-surge-in-covid-cases

[Dodger]

Below is an update from the Department of Corrections Ministry of Justice:

Covid cases in Thai prisons have now exceeded 18,000.

Still no update (publicized anyway) on the construction of Filed Hospitals, which presumably was the solution for containment.

http://en.correct.go.th/news/covid-19-updates/