Early retirement

[a447]

Nirish wrote:


Without wanting to side track this enjoyable thread ( too much) - so that's two members both stating clearly that taking early retirement was basically the best / most important decision of their lives, so just wondering as I'm getting towards that time / age ( perhaps forcibly rather than by choice thanks to Covid of late !?) does anyone have a counter argument to that position i.e "well I thought it would be a good idea but actually I should have carried on working for a while longer due to money / boredom issues etc ?"

* ( I think we all already know the answer to this question perhaps but I thought it worth asking anyway...

[goji]

I retired in my early 50s. So far, I have zero regrets & with hindsight, I should have retired in my late 40s.

Obviously a lot depends on your personal circumstances, but I guess the following are factors to consider:

1 Affordability.
Can you afford to travel as much as you would like to & live the life style you desire ?
In my experience, the living costs for longer trips tend to go down, as there's less pressure to cram as much action as possible into a short trip.
Take account of the fact that exchange rates are moving all over the place.

2 How much you enjoy the job.

3 What's your plan for retirement ?
Free from the constraints of holiday allowances, I started off with my longest ever trip to SE Asia in the winter. I had a couple of short summer breaks in Europe and then another long winter trip. I had decided to travel more & possibly visit Bali, but Covid intervened and stopped that.
However, I still managed to get to Thailand last winter and with 2 weeks lost in quarantine, that kind of trip only makes sense if it can be followed by a long holiday. Feasible when retired, but usually not when employed.

I would recommend anyone who can afford it to retire ASAP. Or, wait until travel is feasible, then retire.

My next big question is where to live.

I'm still in a detached house in the UK. In the winter, I can clear off an leave it, as nothing grows in the garden. In the summer, going away for 3 months would require someone to look after the garden. Whilst it's nice to have a house with a garden in the summer, I also see the appeal of an apartment that requires no maintenance when I'm away.
OK, so many of them have silly little letterboxes which would fill up, however I did visit a masseur in a new build unit recently an noticed all those apartments had proper letterboxes in the apartment doors.

The other option is moving to Thailand. My intention has been to try some longer trips and so far, these are a success and I'm planning to increase the length of trips in future.

[a447]

I imagine it would take a very important event in one's life to make them take the decision to retire early, especially if they were enjoying their job.

In my case a traumatic family event - my parents were killed in a car accident that was not their fault - meant that I was in no mental state to continue working. My company immediately stood me down as by law I was not allowed to carry on my job, but they offered me a different type of work - at the same salary!

When I was finally able to go back to my normal work I first had to requalfy for my license. It has to be renewed every 6 months but because I'd been away from my work for a couple of years, re-taking my license involved lots of re-training and I just couldn't be bothered. Also I had had enough of the very rigorous health checks. So in 2002 I took the plunge. Luckily, I was in a comfortable financial position and did not need to work.

It was definitely a life-changing decision and certainly not one I would have made under normal circumstances. The biggest problem was finding things to occupy my time. I joined a number of clubs, including tennis and mahjong, helped final year students study for their Japanese language exam, did some volunteer work at a hospice, bought a van and fitted it out with nice carpet, comfortable seats and took old people our for drives just to get them out of the house.....I have been busier than I ever was when I was working.

And the bonus is I have made lots is new friends with whom I spend a lot of time going to restaurants, travelling, etc. Apart from the cost of the van and the fit-out, none of these activities has been particularly expensive. Unfortunately, I have had to curtail some of these activities because I spend a lot of time travelling.

And for a little bit of extra excitement I've been dabbling in real estate. That is keeping me quite busy at the moment because the market has gone mad.

If people are planning on early retirement, keeping busy is something they must pay particular attention to, IMHO, or you could end up sad, lonely and bitter, even though you are financially secure.

Not the way to spend the rest of your life.

[Kenny]

This is both a very interesting topic and one that is relevant to me personally.
Like Nirish, I am in the pre-retirement category.

I am fortunate to be in a job I enjoy, and, being in the field of education, it gives me plenty of free time to travel.
However, retirement is raising its head on the horizon and it's a major life decision for sure.
Therefore, I had been thinking about early retirement, so as to spend more time in Thailand and to enjoy the alternative lifestyle.

But covid has changed all that.
Just over a year ago my work went online, completely. I would not have even thought it was possible for me to work entirely online but now, over a year later, it has become the norm.
As the world was shutting down in the first wave of covid I hopped on a plane to Thailand with my laptop in hand. I spent the next five months there living in my apartment and working online.

It worked. I had a fibre-optic broadband connection installed and never looked back. I never missed a meeting or a class.

The only problem I encountered was the distraction of my house-boy laughing hysterically at my animated online conversations.
He was sent on many errands and I bought a headset.

I returned home in July only to find myself back working online as the second and third wave of covid struck. I have been doing so ever since.
It was a grand experiment which has shown me that there is simply no difference between working online from Thailand and working online from home.
This may sound like stating the obvious to some, however it was all new to me and I had to see for myself if it would work.

This has changed my perspective on early retirement.
Covid has forced many of us into working online and it offers us a third way.
The world is never going to go back to twentieth century work practices, at least in areas where working online is an option.
I read recently that Thailand is planning to follow the lead of some of the other Asian countries by introducing a visa for digital nomads.
I don't know what this entails, however, if it allows you to stay longer than on a tourist visa without the financial obligations of a retirement visa, then it would make remote working from Thailand more attractive.

Maybe the next generation of gay expats in Thailand will be digital nomads?

[Dodger]

I agree with everything that goji and a447 have said, with emphasis on a point a447 made about the importance of staying busy after retirement.

I consider myself fortunate because I have hobbies that I simply didn't have time to enjoy when I was working, and I like keeping busy. Conversely, I've seen people retire who seem to struggle findings ways to keep busy, and tend to become a bit lazy and complacent over-time, which is exactly what you don't want to happen. As a447 stated, this is definitely something a person should consider seriously before retiring.

Being sound financially goes without saying, regardless if you're planning to reside in your home country, or live abroad after retirement. Other than that, I'm just fond of saying "follow your inner voice". If you spend your life procrastinating or waiting for someone else to make the decision for you, your life will be gone. Life is intended to be lived by YOU. Just Do It!

"Life is an Adventure - not a Destiny"

[Nirish guy]

Thanks for that honest appraisal there A447. especially re the "time on your hands" end of things as that I think is a very valid point and is something that is niggling at back of my own brain too.

The money side of things for most people is more of a simple "you either can or can't afford to do it and that's that" sort of thing I guess that just depends on the lifestyle you plan / hope to live I guess.

Mind you I have a freind who quit at about 40 who financially speaking NEVER should have retired so early as he had no real funds to speak of and it just made NO sense for him to stop working. But he just woke up on day and said "fuck it" quit and never looked back and he seems to get by ok and every time I call him he's out sailing on his boat, so there's maybe something to be said for that after all too.

Mind you the one thing he does admit is that even though HE is off work none of his friends are of course and so sometimes he gets lonely and the days drag a bit ( hence the sailing trips I'm guessing).

Re the "time" end of things personally I've been working from home for the last year or so now due to the Covid restrictions and whilst it's been nice not having to drive to the office I have still been (half) working and keeping things ticking over and chatting regularly with colleagues still and keeping the Admin end of things going which keeps me as busy as I want to be, but I'm always very aware that if I hadn't of been doing that I think the days would have been harder to put in for sure and that's something I'm very mindful of.

My ( previously held) view of an early retirement would have been me buggering off to Asia / Bali or somewhere for several months of a year ( or longer). However with the world in the state it's in just now and with life here taking it's own twists and turns including things like relationships and stuff too the more I look at life the more I think of the quote by John Lennon where he said something like "life is what happens while we're busy making other plans" and as I get older I think I'm beginning to see that there's more and more truth to that statement !

But i'm also mindful of Dodgers comment there too re "If you spend your life procrastinating or waiting for someone else to make the decision for you, your life will be gone" All very valid points !!

[latintopxxx]

...maybe i got a bit of protestant work ethic in me...if im gonna be busy I need to be making money...and i enjoy being busy...getting up in the morning with a purpose in life..cant see myself in Thailand doing nothing...waste of a llife...would probably end up as an alcoholic..

[cdnmatt]

Not to sound overly modern here, but it's 2021. Retire, and find a way to earn money online to suppliment your savings and lifestyle. I have no idea what your skillset or current business is, but I'm certain it can be translated into online income some how. Whether that's writing, consultancy, mediation, logistical analysis and support, or what have you. Or follow one of your passions, and see what you can do to turn that into an online income stream.

You get the best of all worlds then. Retire early, live wherever in the world you want, live the life you want, and still have a project you're working on and passionate about to keep you busy, plus supplement your income.

[Ruthrieston]

I had planned to retire at the age of 60 but was kicked out of my job at the age of 52 for the appalling crime of being gay. Given that this was against the law in the UK and I had five years of formal annual written appraisals to prove that I was doing an excellent job, it cost the homophobic creeps a year's salary to make me go quietly. What really made my blood boil was that the creatures used the money from the charity of which I was chief executive to pay me off. I still had a big mortgage which I was paying 2,000 pounds a month off, and would have cleared well before my 60th. After six months of trying hard to find a new job I gave up and took my little NHS nurses pension, put my flat on the market, sold it for full price to a cash buyer in less than 24 hours and booked my flight to Thailand for the day the money came into my account (it took three months to complete the sale). This year I will have been living in Thailand for ten years, and though there have been ups and downs I am so grateful for the quality of life I have enjoyed here.

[StevieWonders]

Not to sound overly modern here, but it's 2021. Retire, and find a way to earn money online to suppliment your savings and lifestyle. I have no idea what your skillset or current business is, but I'm certain it can be translated into online income some how. Whether that's writing, consultancy, mediation, logistical analysis and support, or what have you. Or follow one of your passions, and see what you can do to turn that into an online income stream.

You get the best of all worlds then. Retire early, live wherever in the world you want, live the life you want, and still have a project you're working on and passionate about to keep you busy, plus supplement your income.Plumbers, electricians, mechanics, kitchenhands, carpenters - rejoice, cdnmatt has set you free!

[cdnmatt]

Plumbers, electricians, mechanics, kitchenhands, carpenters - rejoice, cdnmatt has set you free!

Yes, I'm a genius like that. Thanks for noticing.

[arsenal]

A rather confused Matt wrote.

"Not to sound overly modern here, but it's 2021. Retire, and find a way to earn money online to suppliment your savings and lifestyle. I have no idea what your skillset or current business is, but I'm certain it can be translated into online income some how. Whether that's writing, consultancy, mediation, logistical analysis and support, or what have you. Or follow one of your passions, and see what you can do to turn that into an online income stream.

You get the best of all worlds then. Retire early, live wherever in the world you want, live the life you want, and still have a project you're working on and passionate about to keep you busy, plus supplement your income."

You seem to be having trouble understanding the word retired.

[a447]

"Retired" means you stop work. It means you don't need to earn an income any more.

You can continue to work if you want - I'm doing a bit of real estate but it's not to make money. It's a hobby I can give up if I get bored with it.

Working from home on the computer is not "retired."

[christianpfc]

One crucial point is money. I have met some, and heard stories of many other, people who retired too early and ran out of money, and now they scrape by (too old to find a new job, too young to qualify for a pension, or their pension is too low to live on comfortably). If in doubt, rather continue working.

If your money is in a foreign currency, you need a security of at least 2, i.e. the currency of the country you are living in could appreciate by the factor of 2 over the years. Same for stock markets or anything else where you have your money.

Unless you are a person who can sit in front of a TV or sit at a bar all day, you need something to keep yourself occupied. For me it's traveling, boy hunting, and learning languages (first Thai in 2011, now Chinese since 2018) of the countries I spend most of my time in.

[Nirish guy]

All very interesting views on the thread so far and all very valid observations.

I though I always quite liked Latins idea of simply sitting at the bar all day but Im guessing the novelty of that becomes old quite fast as even on an extended holiday I find a week or two of that is "enough" usually.

I also remember on first visiting Pattaya and on seeing some of the barflies sitting around the bars I made a mental note to myself to try to ensure I didn't become one of "those" people.

This being the type who perhaps nursed the one beer for half the afternoon and either sat there desperate to talk to everyone and anyone and might walk in, with their tales of how they'd lost everything to some boy / girl who had broken their heart and robbed them in the process. Or perhaps the people at the other end of the spectrum who sat alone and refused to speak to anyone, at least in any friendly manner as they'd just heard it all before and had the look of someone who was just "done" talking in general in life and in fact had appeared to have almost lost the very will to live and in fact were just sitting there to mark time until their time was up.

Matt you have a point re doing "something" online and that thought had crossed my mind too but as has already been mentioned there's then that grey area as to whether you are truly "retired" or not if still (having) to "work" at something, either for financial reasons or just boredom I guess.

There's actually a great example of a guy who's currently trying this who posts on "Tiktok" ( his profile name on Tiktok is lenhaykojr should anyone wishes to follow him there) . He's an American who seemingly ran a very successful gym franchise business in the US but due to Covid had to sell up, so being disillusioned and at the mid life crisis 50 something age decided to "sell up and move". So put his nice house on the market, sold it within weeks, booked a ticket to Phuket and just "went" ! I have to give him credit as this was at the height of the Covid regulations but he still went ahead anyway and made it all happen - well at a fairly high cost it seems in paying agents to get him a retirement visa etc etc !.

He has now ( at 50) learnt / signed up to do "affiliate marketing" i.e he basically recommends / promotes products on his Tiktok and Youtube pages and if people use the links he uses to buy that stuff he gets a commission on the sale from the Suppliers. I have to say that IF ?? the numbers he's showing are accurate he seems to be doing quite well out of it and certainly it's a very profitable retirement side hustle perhaps ! But either way he's there now and "loving life" in his lovely condo with it's private pool etc. It's funny of course watching someone with ZERO knowledge or experience of Thailand simply parachuting in as a newbie and after listening to him giving it all the "no I'll not be letting any woman get the better of me etc" after TWO whole days he'd been befriended by a ( genuinely) nice Thai lady on the beach and she'd picked him up and taken him to an orphanage where HE suggested he could raise funds for them / the kids there ( fair play to him for that of course) but still all "text book" first arrival stuff of course in his trying to "rescue" the poor Thai people, so it will be interesting to see where his story goes in the coming months :)

But getting back to retirement he I guess is a good example of the new "in between" option of either totally working or totally stopping. My own view currently seems to be that STOPPING would be just fine as to keep your brain in the two worlds of "work" and "not working" is almost to much hassle to bother, but that I guess also depends on ones finances of course, mine telling me I should keep on working until I'm about 83 I think currently it seems !!! :-( lol

[goji]

One crucial point is money. I have met some, and heard stories of many other, people who retired too early and ran out of money, and now they scrape by (too old to find a new job, too young to qualify for a pension, or their pension is too low to live on comfortably). If in doubt, rather continue working.

If your money is in a foreign currency, you need a security of at least 2, i.e. the currency of the country you are living in could appreciate by the factor of 2 over the years. Same for stock markets or anything else where you have your money.

After all these years, it's nice to see another member warning of things like currency movements and quoting a safety factor of at least 2. Which I agree with. [For an example, just look at the best and worst GBP-JPY rates over the last 20 years]

By all means retire early, but the finances do need to be in order. It's very dangerous to retire to Thailand, with (for example) an income entirely in GBP, where you can just about afford to live at 40 baht to the pound. If the rate moves to 20 in the next 5~10 years, it's game over. Some stress testing of the finances is in order.

Much better to have a safety margin and if you control your investments, a globetrotting lifestyle should probably be matched by a diversified portfolio of international investments.

[Ruthrieston]

My wee pension was doing fine until the UK voted to leave the EU. The day before the vote I decided to transfer the last of my little bit of capital and the rate was 56 Baht to the pound. The day after the vote the rate fell to 36 Baht to the pound. Ouch! Since I rely on transferring my pension each month it has really hurt me badly. Even as we now hover around 43 to the pound five years later it is still hurting me badly. At least I bought my condo so I don't have to pay rent, but losing almost 30% of my income was a big shock. Not something I could have planned for really, and I was never good with money. Ah well, such is life.

[StevieWonders]

My wee pension was doing fine until the UK voted to leave the EU. The day before the vote I decided to transfer the last of my little bit of capital and the rate was 56 Baht to the pound. The day after the vote the rate fell to 36 Baht to the pound. Ouch! Since I rely on transferring my pension each month it has really hurt me badly. Even as we now hover around 43 to the pound five years later it is still hurting me badly. At least I bought my condo so I don't have to pay rent, but losing almost 30% of my income was a big shock. Not something I could have planned for really, and I was never good with money. Ah well, such is life.The GBPUSD exchange rate initially fell when Cameron announced a referendum in 2013 that Remain was tipped to win. The eventual results simply returned to the 2013 position. Correlation does not mean causation. If you read the Whingers & Whiners Forum (Thaivisa) there have been thousands of posts over the past ten years from Americans, Australians and British about how they have been singled out (joke) for FX losses against the Thai baht.

https://www.exchangerates.org.uk/brexit-pound-exchange-rate-tracker

[Moses]

Retired at 40. Have hobbies, sometimes give paid consultations for fun, run charities. Most time on travels (before COVID).

[a447]

Sounds ideal, Moses.

Charity/volunteer work is very satisfying, both for the giver and the receiver.

A win-win situation all round.

[francois]

One crucial point is money. I have met some, and heard stories of many other, people who retired too early and ran out of money, and now they scrape by (too old to find a new job, too young to qualify for a pension, or their pension is too low to live on comfortably). If in doubt, rather continue working.

.

Christian, you must be one of the youngest retirees I know. How do you manage with no job or pension?

[Manforallseasons]

Christian, you must be one of the youngest retirees I know. How do you manage with no job or pension?

francois, I think the word your looking for is inheritance.

[latintopxxx]

...nah he's an international euro money boy...tall bloind like a bel ami model...in high demand..Asians pay hood money for fit white MB butt...

[goji]

1 There are plenty of self made and very rich people under 40.

2 With all the people here passing judgement on other's circumstances, I'm not sure it's a good idea to answer the question.

3 I think Moses also declared he had retired by 40. Is anyone assuming inheritance there ? No -probably an oligarch who's decided buying a gay bitch board is more fun than buying a football club (& slightly cheaper).

4 Living in Thailand in your 30s probably isn't that difficult to do. Even I probably could have rented my house out and managed it if prepared to run with a very tight budget.

[Dodger]

To me, the term "Retirement" is totally outdated, and doesn't reflect how a person should perceive this phase in his life at all.

When I first started planning for the transition from “work” to “freedom” I did so with the mindset that I would be entering the most productive and personally rewarding phase in my life. “Retirement” suggests the end of a process. “Freedom Phase”, which is my term for this period in my life, suggests the beginning of a new process. Subtle difference – but extremely significant (to me anyway).

The pace I maintained throughout my career, in my older brothers words, "was a bullet train with no stops". This is what I thrived on. I liked making money...dashing across airport terminals to catch red-eye flights...typing reports on planes...knowing hotel concierge's by their first names...and juggling a dozen projects simultaneously, all of which had pressing deadlines. Not for everyone, that's for sure. But I would have been bored to death doing anything else. I'm only saying these things to give you an idea of the type of transition I was planning for.

The way that I approached retirement was really quite simple. I prepared a Daily Schedule in my Business Planner of the activities I would most likely become involved with after retirement - knowing that I had to create a balance of activities to keep healthy (mentally and physically), while at the same time, accomplishing the primary objective which was to be happy, healthy, productive, and fulfilled. I named this Schedule "Freedom Planner" and have it sitting right in front of me now.

One of my objectives was to create a physical fitness routine that would result in me getting in the best physical shape of my life. A bit of a stretch goal considering my age, but something I was going to work towards none-the–less. Examples of other planned activities include; learning new skills (bamboo furniture making/photography), develop expertise in new areas (Research: Theravada Buddhism & Thai culture), write a book (work in-process), Learn/write new songs (guitar music), Travel (road trips), maintain social interactions/friendships, spiritual connections (tamboon, yoga meditation, ME time), keeping up with technology, and goal setting (annual exercise).

I’ve done pretty good at adhering to this Plan, and rarely. If ever, do I find myself getting bored. Most importantly, I feel vital and productive which addresses my biggest concern about this phase in my life, and can say that, at least for me, creating and adhering to this type of Plan is of great benefit.

Since entering my Freedom Phase, I have quit smoking cigarettes, quit going to bars, rarely consume alcohol. In short; I completely altered my lifestyle. My fitness routine lasts 1-1/2 - 2 hours every morning, and I can bench press almost the same amount of weight that I was pressing in the military. Excess body fat is gone and my waist size went from 36 (U.S.) to 32, and I feel great. I’m involved in all of the activities noted in my Plan, although my Road Trips and Social Interactions have been somewhat limited due to the pandemic.

Having a partner who I adore fills in all the gaps and helps to keep me motivated and focused.

Pandemic, or no pandemic, I can honestly say that I feel just as productive as when I was in the Working Phase of life, and so grateful to have the opportunity to experience TRUE FREEDOM. For me, Retirement will come when I’m taking my last breath in this lifetime and transitioning to whatever’s next.

[a447]

Great post, Dodger.

That all makes perfect sense to me.

[Brad the Impala]

One of my objectives was to create a physical fitness routine that would result in me getting in the best physical shape of my life. A bit of a stretch goal considering my age, but something I was going to work towards none-the–less. Examples of other planned activities include; learning new skills (bamboo furniture making/photography), develop expertise in new areas (Research: Theravada Buddhism & Thai culture), write a book (work in-process), Learn/write new songs (guitar music), Travel (road trips), maintain social interactions/friendships, spiritual connections (tamboon, yoga meditation, ME time), keeping up with technology, and goal setting (annual exercise).



I've enjoyed many of your posts over the years, thank you! However I always though that you were a "go with the flow" California hippy type guy! But your retirements sounds more like boot camp. Thanks for sharing but I'm exhausted just reading it.

I'm still happily working. I'm lucky that I only work for people I like, without any long term commitment, and could stop at the drop of a hat, if I chose. I think that helps to make the work enjoyable.

[StevieWonders]

I've enjoyed many of your posts over the years, thank you! However I always though that you were a "go with the flow" California hippy type guy! But your retirements sounds more like boot camp. Thanks for sharing but I'm exhausted just reading it. I’d have thought that you would have realised how completely anal Dodgems is. He was involved in the greatest business consulting scam of the late 20th Century - ISO 9000 certification. I generally ask its devotees if it’s possible to document Monty Python’s Silly Walks for ISO 9000. Apparently it is.