So much for Thailand’s reliance on Sinovac

[StevieWonders]

One shot is only 50% effective - https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210406-first-covid-vaccine-shot-alone-not-protective-chile-study

[Zebedee]

That linked article mentions Coronavac, is that the same as Sinovac? Genuine question as I no longer keep up with every vaccine rollout.

I believe Cambodia will be using a Chinese vaccine, so this news is worrying as my friend lives there.

[latintopxxx]

...dunno..can u trust the french...will only believe it when its reported by a credible news outlet like Crappy News Network

[StevieWonders]

...dunno..can u trust the french...will only believe it when its reported by a credible news outlet like Crappy News NetworkTheir letters are wonderful.

[StevieWonders]

“ Despite big funds and high hopes invested in the Chinese vaccine drive, it has not been the major success it was expected to be, at least in Southeast Asia. Chinese-developed vaccines have been met with significant scepticism in the region due to questions about their distribution, effectiveness and pricing, as well as potential “strings attached”.

“As other major powers are catching up with vaccine production and making concrete steps towards provision for developing nations, China’s vaccine diplomacy in Southeast Asia and beyond may soon face formidable challengers.”

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/4/5/chinas-vaccine-diplomacy-stumbles-in-southeast-asia

[StevieWonders]

That linked article mentions Coronavac, is that the same as Sinovac? Genuine question as I no longer keep up with every vaccine rollout.

I believe Cambodia will be using a Chinese vaccine, so this news is worrying as my friend lives there.” The Beijing-based biopharmaceutical company Sinovac is behind the CoronaVac, an inactivated vaccine.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55212787

All my friends here (none of them female so no blood clot risk) will be lining up for the AstraZeneca shot - some will also pay for their boyfriends to have that one rather than the Sinovac one, free or not.

[cdnmatt]

This sucks. Hopefully it will spawn additional international cooperation so the vaccines that do actually work can get manufactured enmasse in China and other SE Asian nations to get everyone over there properly vaccinated. Maybe the J&J vaccine can take over as the dominant vaccine, as it's a good candidate as it's only one dose and can be stored in a normal fridge.

There's also more vaccines coming online this fall hopefully. Both, the ones from Germany and Canada sound quite promising.

[latintopxxx]

...canada???...when last did they invent anything...

[Dodger]

...canada???...when last did they invent anything...

The first Hockey Goalie Mask - Invented by professional hockey goal tender Jacques Plante in 1960.

This may be the last thing Canada invented...not sure???

[Dodger]

Many people (Asia and elsewhere) will be willing to pay for a reliable vaccine versus pumping that cheap and unreliable Sinovac crap in their veins.

That being the case, it would be better to pay for the Johnson& Johnson vaccine so you know you're getting the best Quality. One jab does it all and you know you're protected.

[cdnmatt]

The first Hockey Goalie Mask - Invented by professional hockey goal tender Jacques Plante in 1960.

This may be the last thing Canada invented...not sure???


Canada does lots, it just all gets lumped in with US accomplishments. For example, bet you didn't know the Canadian flag is on that latest rover NASA just recently landed on Mars, and will also be all over the permanent luna moon base NASA has planned with the upcoming Artimis missions.

Canada also puts out some excellent movie stars, sports players, et al... all of which people just assume are American.

[StevieWonders]

Many people (Asia and elsewhere) will be willing to pay for a reliable vaccine versus pumping that cheap and unreliable Sinovac crap in their veins.

That being the case, it would be better to pay for the Johnson& Johnson vaccine so you know you're getting the best Quality. One jab does it all and you know you're protected.
While I agree with what you say, the reality is that Thailand is in hock, politically and economically, to China. We also know that there is a financial commitment to AstraZeneca for reasons that can’t be discussed on the Forum. That’s without going to the mechanics of mass-production of any vaccine, especially in the context of one of the J&J manufacturers who has already been shown to be incompetent. It’s simply not possible to mass produce a single vaccine for the entire world in a timely manner. Politics and economics mean we’re mostly living with compromises. But that’s the human condition.

He’s in the shower.

[Dodger]

He’s in the shower.

Are you referring to mr. giggles?

[Moses]

One shot is only 50% effective - https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210406-first-covid-vaccine-shot-alone-not-protective-chile-study


Many people (Asia and elsewhere) will be willing to pay for a reliable vaccine versus pumping that cheap and unreliable Sinovac crap in their veins.

That being the case, it would be better to pay for the Johnson& Johnson vaccine so you know you're getting the best Quality. One jab does it all and you know you're protected.

Well... isn't is quite comic what people moans about 55% of one shot of Chinese Sinovac and at the same time blessing 66% one shot J&J?

By the way: it looks manipulative and as a propaganda to compare first generation vaccine (Sinovac) with second generation J&J. Sinovac is inactivated virus vaccine - more simple and weak, with more soft reaction and more short induced immunity.

If you want to compare J&J - compare it with Sputnik then: 60% against 92%... hahaha... poor J&J...

[Dodger]

Well... isn't is quite comic what people moans about 55% of one shot of Chinese Sinovac and at the same time blessing 66% one shot J&J?.

Looks like a pretty substantial difference to me.

If you had your choice today between Sinovac and J&J, which one would you prefer?

[StevieWonders]

Looks like a pretty substantial difference to me.

If you had your choice today between Sinovac and J&J, which one would you prefer?Moses has already been vaccinated by Sputnik V which is clearly a superior vaccine to Sinovac. If I were in Russia I would do the same (I’ve made that point a couple of times) and there have been stories published by/about Western journalists in Russia who came to the same conclusion. As I recall Anthony Fauci has spoken favourably about Sputnik V recently (see link below). The problem for Russians who wish to travel to Thailand as “vaccinated” is that they run up against the fact that it’s currently not one of the vaccines approved by the Thai CDC.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-22/fauci-says-russian-covid-vaccine-looks-pretty-effective

[Moses]

Looks like a pretty substantial difference to me.

If you had your choice today between Sinovac and J&J, which one would you prefer?

Both. Yes, right, both. If I will be limited only to J&J and Sinovac, then I will take J&J first and then will boost immunity in 1 month with Sinovac and will repeat it every 6 months or maybe every 4 months - blood tests will show level of antibodies.

J&J is weak and is one-time-use-vaccine. It is not possible to revaccinate or to boost by J&J. Sinovac is also weak but it may be used as many times as you wish for to lift immunity level. So Sinovac is more preferable from long-time strategy's point of view.

Here I'm limited to Sputnik and to EpiVacCorona (also weak first generation). When level of antibodies in my blood will be too low, I will get EVC for to boost it... have plans to check blood in May (6 month after vaccination).

[Dodger]

Both. Yes, right, both. If I will be limited only to J&J and Sinovac, then I will take J&J first and then will boost immunity in 1 month with Sinovac and will repeat it every 6 months or maybe every 4 months - blood tests will show level of antibodies.

J&J is weak and is one-time-use-vaccine. It is not possible to revaccinate or to boost by J&J. Sinovac is also weak but it may be used as many times as you wish for to lift immunity level. So Sinovac is more preferable from long-time strategy's point of view.

Here I'm limited to Sputnik and to EpiVacCorona (also weak first generation). When level of antibodies in my blood will be too low, I will get EVC for to boost it... have plans to check blood in May (6 month after vaccination).

Good luck with your second boost.

Personally: I plan to remain unvaccinated until probably early 2022. My logic is to allow more time for the validation testing of all of these vaccines. When the time comes, I'll probably opt for the vaccine with the highest proven efficacy level regardless of where it's produced.

If I hadn't gone into retirement I would have done exactly as you have and got the vaccine as soon as possible, but the risk of me contacting the virus where I reside now is fairly low. It's basically just me...an ocean...my guitar...and a boy toy.

[Moses]

I'll probably opt for the vaccine with the highest proven efficacy level regardless of where it's produced.

Well, "highest proven level" in fact doesn't exists. It is like average body's temperatures in hospital - half of patients are in +40C fever, half are already cold in basement, but average temperature is +36,6C.

"Highest proven level" will make different protections in Spain and in South Africa, will make different protection for 40 yo population in comparation with 60yo population... and so on, so it again will be subjective subject (hehe) of your preferences.

Any vector vaccines should be harmless if manufactured under control. They may be dangerous only because chemical reactions in substance weren't completely neutralized and filtered. Pure and manufactured in clean site vector vaccines can't be source of any problem because all pharma companies uses the same vector type 5.

[StevieWonders]

Personally: I plan to remain unvaccinated until probably early 2022. My logic is to allow more time for the validation testing of all of these vaccines. When the time comes, I'll probably opt for the vaccine with the highest proven efficacy level regardless of where it's produced.That sounds like an excuse to be a freeloader on the herd immunity others will provide.

[Moses]

That sounds like an excuse to be a freeloader on the herd immunity others will provide.

In many cases it is very smart policy. Age, extra weight, cancer, diabete and many other complications may make vaccination quite dangerous.

[Dodger]

[QUOTE=Moses;276813]Well, "highest proven level" in fact doesn't exists. It is like average body's temperatures in hospital - half of patients are in +40C fever, half are already cold in basement, but average temperature is +36,6C.

"Highest proven level" will make different protections in Spain and in South Africa, will make different protection for 40 yo population in comparation with 60yo population... and so on, so it again will be subjective subject (hehe) of your preferences.

Any vector vaccines should be harmless if manufactured under control. They may be dangerous only because chemical reactions in substance weren't completely neutralized and filtered. Pure and manufactured in clean site vector vaccines can't be source of any problem because all pharma companies uses the same vector type 5.[/QUOTE

The World will know after the C-19 Validation Testing is complete (by 2022) which vaccine(s) are reliable and which ones are not.

Jai and I will be getting the vaccine which we feel is the most reliable based on the reports published at that time.

Anyone who choses to take one of these vaccines now (during the Validation Test Phase), is doing so at their own risk, and have to be willing to accept the consequences. So far the results look very promising for most (not all) of the vaccines that are out there. Fingers crossed more improvements will be made in handling the variants (mutations), which are the monster in the room right now.

If the Russians Sputnic V is performing as well as you stated earlier, then the problem should be behind them. Especially considering the fact that they (Russia) have already shipped the vaccine to over 50 other countries. One would have to assume they have enough vaccine to take care of the entire Russian population with no problem.

Just one question: If the Sputnic V vaccine is so good - then why do you have to get a EVC boost?

[StevieWonders]

In many cases it is very smart policy. Age, extra weight, cancer, diabete and many other complications may make vaccination quite dangerous.Yes I’d forgotten the age aspect but as arsenal says he’s in wonderful shape for someone of 85.

[Moses]

Just one question: If the Sputnic V vaccine is so good - then why do you have to get a EVC boost?

Because situation is not like with many other infections: right now does not exists vaccines with permanent protection against COVID. All - even high-end vaccines like Moderna - have fading protection, like vaccines against flu.

Nobody knows how long lasts protection, but scientists now talks about 6-12 months for first generation (like Sinovac), 12-24 months for second generation (like Sputnik, J&J or Oxford) and about 12-36 months for third generation vaccines (like Moderna).

I don't like to leave situation without my control, so I will check antibodies level in my blood from time to time and when level will go down to 15 units (described as minimal level for protection by manufacturer of blood test), I will go for boost. Fortunately it is quite simple to get here.

[Andaman!]

The World will know after the C-19 Validation Testing is complete (by 2022) which vaccine(s) are reliable and which ones are not.
Jai and I will be getting the vaccine which we feel is the most reliable based on the reports published at that time.

This assumes that you are given a choice of vaccine and the state does not make the decision for you and Kuhn Jai. Here in UK, the NHS makes the decision based on factors including age, medical history and vaccine availability and individuals do not get a choice. You are unlikely to be permitted to travel internationally without a vaccine so government policy will be key.

Getting a high percentage of the population vaccinated with first does quickly seems to be key as evidenced by Israel and UK. Chile also has a high vaccination rate but has been concentrating on rapid roll of of first and second dose in quick succession which has slowed rate of first vaccinations too soon and allowed COVID to surge again.

Don’t wait Dodger, your risk of dying from COVID is far greater than dying from vaccine. If you have the opportunity, get jabbed.

[StevieWonders]

This assumes that you are given a choice of vaccine and the state does not make the decision for you and Kuhn Jai. Here in UK, the NHS makes the decision based on factors including age, medical history and vaccine availability and individuals do not get a choice. You are unlikely to be permitted to travel internationally without a vaccine so government policy will be key.

Getting a high percentage of the population vaccinated with first does quickly seems to be key as evidenced by Israel and UK. Chile also has a high vaccination rate but has been concentrating on rapid roll of of first and second dose in quick succession which has slowed rate of first vaccinations too soon and allowed COVID to surge again.

Don’t wait Dodger, your risk of dying from COVID is far greater than dying from vaccine. If you have the opportunity, get jabbed.Thailand authorises hospitals and other approved entities to buy their own supplies of any vaccine the Thai TGA approves for use in Thailand. It will be, as you say, a question rather of “best available in Thailand” that will determine what any of us here can choose.

[aot871]

With the shortage of the vaxcine it seems stupid to allow the hospital's to buy their own , and not use the power of the state to bulk buy. As other people have said here in the UK it's only the state providing

[goji]

Don’t wait Dodger, your risk of dying from COVID is far greater than dying from vaccine. If you have the opportunity, get jabbed.

This depends on factors including age and the rate of covid infection in the country concerned.

If Dodger were over 50 and living in a typical European country, with current infection rates he would be much much better off with the vaccine. It's estimated the UK has already saved 10,000 lives due to vaccinations. Compared with just a handful of deaths allegedly related to vaccination.

However, I believe Dodger is living in Thailand, which still has a much lower infection rate. If we accept reported figures at present, I'd imagine certain vaccines would be higher risk. We'd need to make assumptions about how that infection rate would evolve in order to assess the relative risks over the next year.

If I were in Thailand, I'd still take the first non-Chinese vaccine offered.

[Dodger]

Don’t wait Dodger, your risk of dying from COVID is far greater than dying from vaccine. If you have the opportunity, get jabbed.

I agree. What you say makes sense, but I think the J & J vaccine should be available in the private hospitals pretty soon which is really what I want.

I'm not quite in the high-risk age category yet...have no preexisting health concerns...avoid places with crowds of people - and sleep with the same guy every night... so I feel pretty safe.

[Blueskytoday]

BEIJING (AP) -- In a rare admission of the weakness of Chinese coronavirus vaccines, the country's top disease control official says their effectiveness is low and the government is considering mixing them to get a boost. "I KNEW THIS FROM THE DAMN BEGINNING" LIERS FROM THE START

[Up2U]

Visited two of my doctors last Friday (Bangkok Pattaya hospital) and asked when can I get the vaccine. The staff there has received the Sinovac jabs already and I was told I could get the AstraZenega jab in June and maybe as early as May. She will not prescribe me the Sinovac because of my age (anyone over 60). J&J, Moderna, Pfizer will all be available as private hospitals are permitted to buy them. I just might wait.
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2097619/private-hospitals-can-buy-covid-vaccine-of-their-choosing

[Dodger]

Visited two of my doctors last Friday (Bangkok Pattaya hospital) and asked when can I get the vaccine. The staff there has received the Sinovac jabs already and I was told I could get the AstraZenega jab in June and maybe as early as May. She will not prescribe me the Sinovac because of my age (anyone over 60). J&J, Moderna, Pfizer will all be available as private hospitals are permitted to buy them. I just might wait.
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2097619/private-hospitals-can-buy-covid-vaccine-of-their-choosing

Thanks for the update Up2U.

According to the rumor mill (for what it's worth) the J&J vaccine may also be available at some (maybe not all) private hospitals beginning in June as well. As I've mentioned before, that's the vaccine that Jai and I are interested in getting...and June will work out just fine.

I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see a global recall of Sinovac at some point in the future. This is purely speculation on my part, but I was speculating from the beginning (6 months ago) that the Chinese vaccine would be risky business. Now, the Thai farmers don't even want it.

[cdnmatt]

Unfortunately, J&J is getting bad press now, which is a tad over-dramatized if you ask me. About 4.5 million J&J shots given, and a couple dozen people got dizzy, and a few even fainted.

I'll take that over getting KoVid any day, so sign me up for J&J. That's the one I'm hoping for at least, but looking like my age group will be the last to get vaccinated in Canada, so who knows... first old people got priority because they were dieing, now young people are getting priority because they won't stay inside, so looks like us middle aged folk are last.

[arsenal]

Dodger wrote.
"I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see a global recall of Sinovac at some point in the future."

China 'donated' vaccines to Brazil, Turkey and Indonesia. 'Donated' as in please test these and tell us if you all die. We here can't believe they got away with this as altruism.

[Moses]

China 'donated' vaccines to Brazil, Turkey and Indonesia. 'Donated' as in please test these and tell us if you all die. We here can't believe they got away with this as altruism.

At least China donated and their vaccine saves people. What did all developed countries? Let to all other die from the start: export is forbidden.

[arsenal]

Is Russia a developed country? Did you donate?

[Moses]

Is Russia a developed country? Did you donate?

No, Russia is not. But yes, Russia donates.

[goji]

At least China donated and their vaccine saves people. What did all developed countries? Let to all other die from the start: export is forbidden.

The main UK developed vaccine has been licensed to various countries around the world, so they can manufacture it locally.
Top of the list is India, which has already manufactured 100's of millions of doses.
Thailand has also licensed it, but seem rather slow making it.

The UK has no export ban on vaccines, however where the government has funded some work and put contracts in place back in 2020, of course it is reasonable to expect the earlier contracts to be fulfilled first.

As for the Chinese vaccine, they recognise poor effectiveness and are looking to save face by mixing in doses of better vaccines.
Here's a quote from one official: “Giving people doses of different vaccines is one way to improve vaccines that “don’t have very high rates of protection”, Gao Fu, the director of the Chinese Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said.

https://www.cityam.com/china-considers-mixing-covid-19-vaccines-to-increase-protection-rate/

[Dodger]

.

“Giving people doses of different vaccines is one way to improve vaccines that “don’t have very high rates of protection”,.

Oh, I get it. If our product doesn't work, just combine it with one that does and call it a day.

Beyond laughable!!!

[Moses]

Oh, I get it. If our product doesn't work, just combine it with one that does and call it a day.

Beyond laughable!!!

No. "If part of your population has immunity to our vector, then let's mix vectors and cover at least partially gap of immunity"

[Dodger]

No. "If part of your population has immunity to our vector, then let's mix vectors and cover at least partially gap of immunity"

Maybe I'm expecting too much. But having a vaccine that ACTUALLY WORKS without mixing it with anything has a nice ring to it.

[cdnmatt]

Maybe I'm expecting too much. But having a vaccine that ACTUALLY WORKS without mixing it with anything has a nice ring to it.

I'm going to start selling my vaccine, "Matt's Korona Cure". Has a 95% efficacy level, as long as you take it with the Pfizer vaccine.

Sounds like a great business plan, I should be a millionaire in no time.

[cdnmatt]

And also so much for J&J in the US now as well. They just halted using it.

[goji]

I think the J & J vaccine should be available in the private hospitals pretty soon which is really what I want.

"US health authorities are calling for a pause in the use of the Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine, after reports of extremely rare blood clotting cases."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56733715

I've had the AZN, but it not, I'd still be happy with any vaccine which has been trialed and deployed in any properly democratic country with free and open media, as long as taking the vaccine is clearly safer than not taking it.
Those in less democratic countries with state controlled media simply can't rely on data about problems being collected and reported.

[Moses]

Those in less democratic countries with state controlled media simply can't rely on data about problems being collected and reported.

Oh, now I know why 30+ years J&J was able to hide fact what their medical product was the reason of "extremely rare" suicides... "state controlled medias can't rely on data"... oh, but there is no state controlled medias in US! paradox...

[StevieWonders]

"US health authorities are calling for a pause in the use of the Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine, after reports of extremely rare blood clotting cases."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56733715
Dodgems must be gutted.

[Dodger]

"US health authorities are calling for a pause in the use of the Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine, after reports of extremely rare blood clotting cases."

I for one, appreciate the fact that J&J data is reported openly and accurately, so that immediate actions can be taken when potential problems are identified, regardless of how insignificant they may appear.

These kinds of actions tell me that the Vaccine Test Validation Process is working as intended.

[goji]

These kinds of actions tell me that the Vaccine Test Validation Process is working as intended.
Also, the reporting on it.

The J&J vaccine is another adenovirus based vaccine.
So both adenovirus based vaccines developed in countries with transparent process and free media have a small risk of blood clots.

Finding out if the third adenovirus vaccine has such problems will not be so easy, due to lack of transparency.

[cdnmatt]

And here we go... 1335 cases today in Thailand. Over 30% higher than any previous highest daily toll.

I think it's safe to say Phuket is delaying it's plan to open in July.

[Blueskytoday]

Well at least J&J is open and accurate.....for me,,I would not trust anything the Chinese say about their vaccine..maybe it is good..but I read it is only 50% effective...have not read does anyone know,,,how many per day are infected in China or they report NONE???

[arsenal]

Blueskytoday. The latest figures are published below. I do tend to believe them. Anything even resembling a spike leads to a lockdown in that area and full checks before being allowed into clubs, malls etc. Currently no checks anywhere.


https://www.china-briefing.com/news/china-coronavirus-updates-latest-developments-business-advisory-part-2/

[Blueskytoday]

Tks....I hear nothing about China, so did not know.....

[StevieWonders]

Partial paralysis has been reported in some Thais who have been vaccinated with the Sinovac vaccine - https://www.thaipbsworld.com/six-suffer-partial-paralysis-after-inoculation-with-sinovac-vaccine/