The modern gay heretic

[StevieWonders]

Wikipedia defines fantasy as “a genre of speculative fiction set in a fictional universe, often inspired by real world myth and folklore.”

Generally I regard the practice of religion as a fantasy. Its believers insist on their particular reality and try to get others to share their fantasy of (generally) a Supreme Being and all that that entails. During the Inquisition people were rounded up and punished for non-belief or wrong belief. Moslems invoke fatwas against non-believers.

I’m all in favour of people having a rich fantasy life - provided it’s not compulsory for the rest of us to share those fantasies. However the bloke down the hall who believes he’s a woman ... surely that’s a fantasy I can’t be made to share?

The “trans” lobby says otherwise. It’s the modern Inquisition.

[dinagam]

Are you envious of their breasts?

[cdnmatt]

Give it some time, and it'll die down as it becomes more normalized within society.

Same as before there were constantly people, "I'm gay any proud, look at me, I'm gay, you can't not like me because I'm gay!". You don't see that as much anymore, because nobody cares whether or not you're gay anymore. The same will happen with trans folk in time.

[StevieWonders]

Give it some time, and it'll die down as it becomes more normalized within society.

Same as before there were constantly people, "I'm gay any proud, look at me, I'm gay, you can't not like me because I'm gay!". You don't see that as much anymore, because nobody cares whether or not you're gay anymore. The same will happen with trans folk in time.So you think same-sex attraction is a fantasy?

[arsenal]

My bestie was born Bernard, on the wrong side of the tracks in Newcastle. 6 feet 6 and with a burly build not to mention excessively hairy limbs saw him working the docks for the best part of forty years.

Then several years ago he confided in me that he wanted to be a woman. Obviously I was shocked although looking back there were subtle signs...A love of fresh flowers and he never missed Loose Women.

However I, of course accepted his wish and promised to support him and be there whenever I could. It was very difficult at first, trannyism wasn't the fashionable attention grabbervit is today. Everyone just thought he was weird. We'd get strange looks browsing through the cocktail dress section at M and S and shop assistants were always aghast when he asked for a size 22.

Shopping for shoes could be even worse. He was almost in tears when some Louis Vuitton open toed slingbacks were not available to fit his overly large feet even if ge taped up his toes with sellotape.

There could be heartfelt tantrums in other places too. They simply refused to allow him into the ladies changing area at Hampstead Pond instead making him change, as he put it "in front of all those lecherous men." He was adamant for weeks afterwards that he could have been sexually assaulted and that "all men are the same."

Other issues also surfaced from time to time. At Wimbledon he was refused a discount for ladies day and at Ascot they would not enter him into the glamorous ladies finest hat tombola, a decision which had him throwing his glass of champagne at the chief steward. On holiday in Spain the singer refused to seranade him nor give him a rose.

And yet he still maintains that he's a woman.

[cdnmatt]

Thinking about it and since we're on the subject, I don't even know, what does Thailand do? Now that this whole "do trans folk get to choose which bathroom to use" debate is all the rage in the West, what do layboys growing up in school do in Thailand? What bathroom do they use?

Curious minds want to know.

[StevieWonders]

Curious minds want to know.Self-advertisement?

[StevieWonders]

My bestie was born Bernard, on the wrong side of the tracks in Newcastle. 6 feet 6 and with a burly build not to mention excessively hairy limbs saw him working the docks for the best part of forty years.

Then several years ago he confided in me that he wanted to be a woman. Obviously I was shocked although looking back there were subtle signs...A love of fresh flowers and he never missed Loose Women.

However I, of course accepted his wish and promised to support him and be there whenever I could. It was very difficult at first, trannyism wasn't the fashionable attention grabbervit is today. Everyone just thought he was weird. We'd get strange looks browsing through the cocktail dress section at M and S and shop assistants were always aghast when he asked for a size 22.

Shopping for shoes could be even worse. He was almost in tears when some Louis Vuitton open toed slingbacks were not available to fit his overly large feet even if ge taped up his toes with sellotape.

There could be heartfelt tantrums in other places too. They simply refused to allow him into the ladies changing area at Hampstead Pond instead making him change, as he put it "in front of all those lecherous men." He was adamant for weeks afterwards that he could have been sexually assaulted and that "all men are the same."

Other issues also surfaced from time to time. At Wimbledon he was refused a discount for ladies day and at Ascot they would not enter him into the glamorous ladies finest hat tombola, a decision which had him throwing his glass of champagne at the chief steward. On holiday in Spain the singer refused to seranade him nor give him a rose.

And yet he still maintains that he's a woman.As I said, everyone is entitled to their own rich fantasy life - but they’re not entitled to insist that we share their fantasies.

[Ruthrieston]

Well done you, Mr Arsenal, for truly supporting your friend through her difficult transition. Unlike the slim and largely hairless Thai boys who make the transition, in the West it is far more of a challenge, and much more difficult to gain acceptance. I hope your friend is happy and enjoying her new life.

[arsenal]

If anyone genuinely believed my piece about Bernard then I apologise. It was a satire. My position is that wearing female clothes does not make you a woman. If you want to believe you are then that's your choice but please don't insist that I do.

[Nirish guy]

Disappointing though that gay men who have no doubt experienced plently of hardship themselves over the years find it difficult to be tolerant of someone elses life and the hardships that they have gone through over their sexuality or gender when that persons choices or very existence for that matter has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on their actual life.

OK - cue the "well they're not woman and I dont care what anyone says' brigade to spark up.

My position, if someone's not hurting me I'm happy to live and let live and accept them as they wish to be accepted - who are WE to judge. And us especially all I'm sure know plently of transexual / lady boys etc who are all WAY more feminine that half the women we know so you'd think that would give us a head start on the whole acceptance thing, perhaps not it seems.

[arsenal]

No NIrish, we are in agreement. They are free to live any life they choose. But I don't have to agree that they are in fact, women.. They are not.

[Khor tose]

As I said, everyone is entitled to their own rich fantasy life - but they’re not entitled to insist that we share their fantasies.

True, none of us ever HAS to believe a fantasy, but we do. I can take a cheap shot and mention people who believe in religion and how we mostly tolerate them, as in many places they are in the majority, and they tolerate those of us who do not share their fantasy.

Can we call it manners? How about saying it is in the spirit of live and let live. I can think of a very few people I have ever met who did not have fantasies. Older women and men who so long to be young again that they dress and act like they are 20 when they are past 40. Young teens who want to be adult and don’t cut it. Often, men and women in bed fantasize (Ahhh for the times my partner is young DiCaprio and I am Schwarzenegger.) Others who believe they are charming, and they are not. Others who fantasize they are smart and clever, and are really so dumb to be funny---unless they are your boss. On and on and on, we all have fantasies, and like it or not we learn to live with, not only our fantasies, but to tolerate the fantasies of others, so why not Transgender people? Especially why not transgender people from a group that has suffered greatly from the intolerance of others?

My partner and I live in Seattle, and Seattle (The Emerald City) has one of the largest populations of transgender people in the US. Ingersoll- a pioneering transgender center-- is located here and there are nearly a hundred plus transgender services in Seattle. Every year two to three hundred plus transgender people hold a convention in the small coastal city of Port Angeles, and having attended one of their conventions with my partner, I can attest that they do a lot of good and the city of Port Angeles loves them, and turn out in force each year to welcome them.

What it is, is simple as can be. People are people, Knowing a lot of transgender people I can say without any problem that they are no better than anyone else, and they are no worse. What they are, is people who have a different fantasy then the fantasies you may have. Are they hurting anyone? Do they scare the horses? Okay some of them might. (A joke the way you might kid anyone.)

Gays have traveled far on the path of civil liberties in my lifetime. Please everyone, please, let us not be the people who say we got ours and to hell with everyone else. If some people are happy as another sex and it does no harm we should not only learn to acknowledge their fantasy, but to support it in the same polite way we support the fantasies of others. Acceptance is not necessary but courtesy, politeness, or manners, or whatever you call it is important. I sure hope the gay population does not forget what it is like to be hated for something you feel you cannot help being..

[cdnmatt]

My position, if someone's not hurting me I'm happy to live and let live and accept them as they wish to be accepted - who are WE to judge. And us especially all I'm sure know plently of transexual / lady boys etc who are all WAY more feminine that half the

Ditto. It's not like trans people don't have enough on their plate to worry about without having to deal with a bunch of immature adults throwing frantic tantrums because a guy is wearing a dress. They have enough to deal with in rgards to their sexuality without society piling on top just cause.

It's not like they wake up one day as teenagers and think to themselves, "I know, I'm going to become a woman just to piss mom and dad off". I'm not trans or anything, but I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. They're going to go through a self-acceptance phase with or without the help of society, so kind of makes sense to just live and let live.

Wasn't that long ago being gay got you thrown in jail, and still does in many places.

[StevieWonders]

Typical American psychobabble, Khor tose

[StevieWonders]

Ditto. It's not like trans people don't have enough on their plate to worry about without having to deal with a bunch of immature adults throwing frantic tantrums because a guy is wearing a dress. They have enough to deal with in rgards to their sexuality without society piling on top just cause.You’re confusing gender and sexuality - they are two different things. As for men in frocks using the women’s bathroom - I don’t use it myself so I don’t care who uses it. Selfish of me, I know. However if I were a woman who’d been sexually assaulted I just might be concerned that ANY man who chose could “identify as” a woman and occupy my previously “safe space”.

[cdnmatt]

You’re confusing gender and sexuality - they are two different things. As for men in frocks using the women’s bathroom - I don’t use it myself so I don’t care who uses it. Selfish of me, I know. However if I were a woman who’d been sexually assaulted I just might be concerned that ANY man who chose could “identify as” a woman and occupy my previously “safe space”.

Can you please link to some sources where a woman was sexually assaulted / raped in a bathroom by a male dressed as a woman?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't heard of any cases at least. Seems like a fear based argument, much like the whole, "if we let gays marry, then what's next? people marrying their dogs?".

[StevieWonders]

Can you please link to some sources where a woman was sexually assulated / raped in a bathroom by a male dressed as a woman?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't heard of any cases at least. Seems like a fear based argument, much like the whole, "if we let gays marry, then what's next? people marring their dogs?".I for one would be perfectly happy to have unisex bathrooms provided that the women didn’t get in the way of the anonymous sex that goes on in every well-regulated male public lavatory. However think of the outcry from some of the regular sex tourists here when they encounter women in a male gogo bar. Pass the smelling salts.

As for whether the fear of sexual assault in women’s bathrooms from men in drag is justified, perhaps you should ask a woman - say someone from #BlackFrocksMatter

[gerefan2]

Can you please link to some sources where a woman was sexually assaulted / raped in a bathroom by a male dressed as a woman?
Maybe I’m wrong but I haven’t heard of any cases
.

You need to get out more Matt.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/big-lots-sexual-assault-gregory-philip-schwartz-san-diego/1991173/

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/feb/06/rape-reported-nic/

[cdnmatt]

Here's another way to look at this whole thing. Take a look at the number of ladyboys in Thailand, and it's quite obvious there's proportionately way more than in Western countries. Why is that? Are Thais just genetically predisposed to being trans, or is it it's culturally more accepted in Thailand?

It's obviously the latter, which means there's probably a whole lot more trans people in Western societies than we currently realize, but many just remain in the closet. So which is more harmful to society? Never ending barrage of ridicult and shaming of trans folk that pushes many of them into being lowlife drug addicts who suffer mental health issues, or pissing off some soccer moms and religious zealots because we're not living by what they perceive to be GOd's wishes?

[francois]

If anyone genuinely believed my piece about Bernard then I apologise. It was a satire. My position is that wearing female clothes does not make you a woman. If you want to believe you are then that's your choice but please don't insist that I do.

More like fake news! :devilsh:

[StevieWonders]

Matt, your argument is that Thai culture is more accepting of those who want to fantasise about their gender. No other poster in this thread has said anything that disagrees with that

I simply said that it can’t be compulsory for others to act as if it’s other than a fantasy (ie. what the Americans typically refer to as First Amendment rights can’t be negated)
arsenal’s argument is that whatever their fantasy it’s their birth gender that matters
NIrish guy & Khor tose want us all to hold hands and sing kumbaya

[a447]

Afaik I've never met a transgender person. However, the grandson of a friend of mine is going through the transition from Michael to Mikayla.

I've only ever seen him once at a social gathering and didn't get the chance to have a chat.

According to my friend, Michael has been to hell and back, suffering from depression and anxiety and going through a period of self-harm. It's a long journey but he's determined to reach his goal. Thankfully, he has the full support of his family and friends.

I admire his courage and am looking forward to seeing him emerge as Mikayla. But as I have no way of getting into his head I'll never know if it's a fantasy or a genuine belief.

So, at the end of this journey he will look like a woman on the outside - or at least more feminine than masculine - but will he have really changed from male to female?

In his mind, yes. But in my view, no. He will still be a male. (Not that he could, or should, give a shit about my opinion.)

My generation helped put a man on the moon, but this younger generation wants to put a man in a woman's toilet. Should that be allowed? Definitely not. It's just yet another example of people desperate to be politically correct. It makes them feel morally superior to everyone else. Is that the best they can do? Can't they fight for something more important? They don't seem to consider the any negative consequences of their latest "cause."

I wish Michael a long and happy life, lived as Mikayla - the person he truly wants to be. But please stay out of our sisters' and daughters' toilets.

[Nirish guy]

NIrish guy & Khor tose want us all to hold hands and sing kumbaya

And yet you say that like it's a bad thing - I think right now the world could do with a little more kumbay fucking ya dont you !?

We should remember also that no matter what our own views of these matters our words and actions may hurt others ( in the wider world) and so yes if possible then why not lets just "be kind" rather than "not".

Interesting to see just this week that Pantene Hair shampoo have just released an Advert featuring a young trans girl, which hopefully serves to remind us that the old stereotype of a 6 foot hairy man in a badly fitting dressing and wig hiding in a ladies toilets solely to attack women is NOTHING to do with ACTUAL trans people and their lives in ANY way of course !

I get that that throws up problem as to how we as a society deal with those bad guys but we shouldn't allow the two subjects to become conflated. We should remember too there are many many real Trans people out there struggling just to get through their every day lives and just trying to get by and live a happy life like the rest of us ( you know like struggling the way us gay guys had to do for years too btw until we found more acceptance) and so OUR harsh words and thoughts and criticisms of "trans people" ( in general) can and does affect their lives too of course - so if simply being kind helps with that.....then surely that's the better person to be.

Here's a link to that advert just in passing....... ( and yes freeky I know you'll say how it doesn't change anything etc etc......but my point is why needlessly make the likes of this young girls life tougher "just because" people dont like or argee with HER life, life's short, fuck it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFSVbBW5Cg4

[arsenal]

Francois wrote.
"More like fake news!"

Not just news but fake tits, eyebrows, lashes, hair and everything else..

[cdnmatt]

Surprised nobody has brought up Mr. Potato Head yet.

[Nirish guy]

Surprised nobody has brought up Mr. Potato Head yet.

Excuse me, please dont misgender Potato's ! - Potato lives matter ! I think you'll find that it's MR Potato head no longer and the Mister has now been kicked to the kerb ! :)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56200811

Edit - We're not sure now Ex MR Potato took the news when it was broken to him, but lets face based on how the world is right now in regards to feminism and MENS right as me WAS a Mr then - no one gives the slightest fuck what he thinks anyway...... :-(

[a447]

I have never thought that transgender people would wait inside a woman's toilet, planning to assault women - that just wouldn't make any sense.

But I think women would feel uncomfortable about seeing a transitioning person like Michael using their toilet.

But then again, I wouldn't fancy a transgender person's chances in a male toilet. That could end in disaster.

The easy solution is to build unisex toilets. We have them all over the place here, but the problem is, what do they do if they go somewhere where there are only male and females toilets?

[dinagam]

Francois wrote.
"More like fake news!"

Not just news but fake tits, eyebrows, lashes, hair and everything else..

What a shame after going through all the troubles and pains, in the end none of them will ever experience the biological process of menstruation and menopause...

[Nirish guy]

So, should we keep reminding them of that basic fact Dinagam and actually perhaps use that as some form of 'proof" that "they're not "real" women then are they!?" all the way throughout every day of the rest of their lives? And what about women who cant conceive for whatever reason, should we be pointing out to them also that "they're not REAL women you know" too ?

Or perhaps we maybe start to accept that gender IS evolving ( whether some people like it or not) and it can be seen as on a spectrum and whilst there are absolutes such as child birth etc there are also a range of feelings and emotions that define us each of us internally to ourselves re that too and just because WE as men feel 100% "correct" in our gender if someone else doesn't then who are we to tell them / no FORCE them to remain as something that they believe they are not. That to me is just plain cruel.

To keep this in Thailand terms for here on the board - I'm "assuming??" that no one here would advocate placing some beautiful Thai lady boy/ women into a man's group prison cell in Thailand and that we would all offer them the protection and their place in the womens cells ? So if we happily concede that then "life" outside of that construct should be no different surely ?

[StevieWonders]

What a shame after going through all the troubles and pains, in the end none of them will ever experience the biological process of menstruation and menopause...
Bloody hell.

[francois]

Francois wrote.
"More like fake news!"

Not just news but fake tits, eyebrows, lashes, hair and everything else..

Your friend, Bernard, was completely fake, by your own admission; not satire, just fake.

[arsenal]

I'm going to start an online tranny shop selling over sized mini skirts, evening gowns, lacy knickers, bras and boob tubes with payment omly in bitcoin thank ypu.

[Brad the Impala]

I'm going to start an online tranny shop selling over sized mini skirts, evening gowns, lacy knickers, bras and boob tubes with payment omly in bitcoin thank ypu.

I think you'll find that there won't be much demand for your second hand castoffs!

[cdnmatt]

Excuse me, please dont misgender Potato's ! - Potato lives matter ! I think you'll find that it's MR Potato head no longer and the Mister has now been kicked to the kerb ! :)

Funny thing is, I bet the decision was made just to save on packaging costs, or something.

[Nirish guy]

Funny thing is, I bet the decision was made just to save on packaging costs, or something.

Or the fact that they decided that Mr Potato wasn't packing enough at all anymore hence the removal of his Mister for once and for all ! :-)

10900

[StevieWonders]

10902

[bkkguy]

people who believe in religion and how we mostly tolerate them, as in many places they are in the majority, and they tolerate those of us who do not share their fantasy.

I think your fantasy of how religion works in the real world needs a bit of work!

[Khor tose]

I think your fantasy of how religion works in the real world needs a bit of work!

I considered the mileau. KISS
but I would glad to hear what positive uplifting things you can say about tolerance and transgenders. Go for it.

[latintopxxx]

...lol...try that tolerance theory in saudi, bangladesh, pakistan, afghanistan,other stans, nigeria, kosovo, egypt,....good luck with that

[StevieWonders]

I considered the mileau. KISS
but I would glad to hear what positive uplifting things you can say about tolerance and transgenders. Go for it.
Ah, “mileau”, one of my favourite things.

[StevieWonders]

Are they “transgender”? Surely they’re a couple of drag queens?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cameroon-lgbt-trial-idUSKBN2BG2ZM

[StevieWonders]

I think your fantasy of how religion works in the real world needs a bit of work!A story to help you with Khor tose and his “mileau”: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/03/mississippi-senator-suggests-sunday-voting-will-offend-god.html

[StevieWonders]

Precisely the point I’ve been making - using the gender preferences of the fantasist cannot be mandated:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lgbt-professor-idUSKBN2BI2WH

[arsenal]

More heart breaking difficulties for Bernard or Bernadette as s/he is now known. Enjoying a brief respite from lockdown recently B and I went on a shopping trip. He was after a thigh length negligee, just something casual to swish around his studio flat in Robert Mugabe House, Rhyl. So off to the big city we went, Swansea.

Things got off to a tricky start when B insisted to the parking guy that S/he was in fact disabled and entitled to park for free in the plum spaces. Wearing a dress does not make you disabled argued the attendant. Matters were resolved when B picked up the becapped one by the throat and screamed at full volume thst s/he was not going to be sexually harrassed by a council Hitler just because he was a defenceless woman. This had the official apologising unreservedly for his gross error of judgement snd offering a free valet to Bs 1998 Toyota. B graciously accepted but mentioned the me too hashtag as a passing threat.

And into the first shop. Miss Petite, a boutique shop aimed at the younger female crowd. Ignoring the occasional bump on his 6 feet 6 head from the low slung ceilimg lights B browsed the garments and selected one to try on. More embarrassment for my poor friend as he was far too tall for the fitting room and his head and shoulders were higher than the partition. Out he came squeezed into a burnt orange number that only came down to his belly button. Are you sure you haven't got it in a slightly larger size he asked the girl. To no avail. It was the same story in shop after shop. Loads of designs he loved but just not quite in his size. I know the girl in the last shop meant well but when she suggested B buy a pair of net curtains and make his own his eyes filled up.

And so we left Swansea empty handed, Bs dream of a negligee to match his Mollie Sugden green tinted birds best style glue on finest nylon wig unfulfilled.

The drive back to Rhyl was long, Bs feet were swollen and blistered from all the walking and it took two of us to wrench his high heels off and peeling the sellotape off his feet brought clumps of skin and hair.

But still he says he's a woman.

[latintopxxx]

...stop drinking with your meds...

[Jellybean]

In case members may have missed this transgender related report from Canada, I thought it was worth sharing here:


Canadian Father Jailed For Talking About Court-Ordered Transgendering Of His Teenage Daughter

Robert Hoogland’s arrest has garnered significant attention, nationally and internationally. Canada’s version of the Equality Act has put him in jail for saying what he thinks about transgendering children.

By Jeremiah Keenan
March 26, 2021

Last week, Robert Hoogland was arrested at the British Columbia Supreme Court in Vancouver for speaking against court-ordered testosterone injections for his teenage daughter. Hoogland was denied bail, and Justice Michael Tammen issued an oral decision last Friday confining Hoogland to prison until his case is tried on April 12, 2021.

Hoogland’s arrest has garnered significant attention, nationally and internationally, and prompted an online petition for his release. Noted psychologist and author Jordan Peterson tweeted about the case repeatedly last Thursday, pointing out that he had predicted such imprisonment was “inevitable” back when he took his stand against the “pronoun laws” in Canada’s Bill C16 . . .

Source: the FEDERALIST (https://thefederalist.com/2021/03/26/canadian-father-jailed-for-talking-about-court-ordered-transgendering-of-his-teenage-daughter/)

And from YouTube:


https://youtu.be/oR8xy2D6rpk

[dinagam]

But still he says he's a woman.

A half kilo of coca leaves each day for three consecutive months should wean him off this malady. He's not only a nuisance to himself but also to people around him.