Three Friends [Archive] - Sawatdee Gay Thailand the oldest and most popular gay forum on Thailand and South East Asia

Dodger

March 10th, 2021, 11:06

I’ve received e:mail messages from three close friends in the last week, and, ironically, they have all hinted at the prospects of finding a “Thai Boyfriend” when and if they are able to return to LaLa Land. This really seems odd, considering the fact that all three are (were) diehard “Butterflies”, and after being imprisoned for the last year, one would think the only thing on their minds would be tossing in the hay with as many boys as they can when they return - just to get the blood flowing down the right arteries again.

Similarities that these friends share is that they’re all in their 60’s, have been prancing with the brown boys in Thailand on their bi-annual holidays for roughly 20 years. One (M) is from the U.S. and takes pride in being a confirmed bachelor. As a dedicated “top”, he prefers lining up str8 ponies randomly without a romantic bone in his body (Latintopxxx could be his clone). Another misfit chum is from Australia (B), who is equally committed to his “free lifestyle”, who enjoys dating multiple boys simultaneously depending on which way the wind is blowing. He’s open regarding his preference for being versatile and only remembers the names (or numbers) of boys who are well-endowed. Last, but not least, is another highly spirited maniac from England (W) who we’ve dubbed “Butterfly Extraordinaire”. He takes pride in having the mobile number of every working boy in LOS, and routinely has 2 or 3 boys shacking up with him at any given time.

All three (M,B,W) have played the role of long-distance sponsor at some juncture (who hasn’t), are generous (hinging on foolish) when it comes to tipping, and view the world as being their raw oyster. I guess, before hooking up with Jai, I was a hybrid of these three characters to some degree…with no regrets whatsoever.

Maybe it has to do with the effects of this pandemic and the changing landscape. Who knows. But each of my friends seems inclined to talk more about finding a “Boy Special” as time moves forward. Influencing factors could be: the decline in availability of working boys (on the scene, not on the apps), economic factors, e.g., higher travel costs, health certificates, etc., covid safe-distancing protocols, or just the mere fact that they (we) are aging, when bonding with the guy you’re exchanging bodily fluids with tends to take on a whole new meaning.

In any event, I just hope they make it back here soon. I miss the unbridled and spontaneous times that we had together on the sois, and listening to M’s late-night pony stories, and his constant complaining about “Star Boys Gogo” being closed (for the past 14 years now). Mr. B rolling his eyes and hyperventilating during his drunk ramblings about the length and girth of the last boy’s penis, and W, as he kisses the boy next to him - while simultaneously fondling the waiter’s balls with a few 20 baht notes folded neatly in half.

Will the “new normal” evolve into seeing more “Couples” strolling hand-in-hand down the dusty sois – or will "Star Boys" reopen and virtual reality be set in motion again? I guess only time will tell.

Moggy

March 10th, 2021, 12:12

Possibly a side effect of Vaccine best report such findings to W.H.O

dinagam

March 10th, 2021, 13:46

Possibly a side effect of Vaccine best report such findings to W.H.O

Bigger samples are needed for statistical relevance...

Oliver2

March 10th, 2021, 14:25

"More couples in the dusty sois"? yes, and I've noted before that the sight of elderly falangs and their now ageing boyfriends, the fruits of halcyon days long gone, has become much more common.

For my part, I never actively looked for a long-term relationship; butterflying was so much fun. Traversal of the bars, a choice of companion, sanuk, thanks, goodbye, here's the cash. What could be a better way of spending an evening?

So it seemed between 1995 and 2004; and even when it did change, it was at first like an extended or repeated off rather than a relationship. Then, an unexpected change occurred. P had been unwell during one of my stays. I remember emailing an old friend back home, expressing concern and found myself writing, " I think I may love him." The choice of language surprised me even as I wrote. But it was true; I did. In a way, the curtailment of our nightly sanuk had opened my eyes as to how I really felt.

Seventeen years later, I walk hand in hand with P. through Central, Terminus 21 or wherever, choosing a restaurant rather than around Boyztown choosing a go go bar. And recently, by chance, we have encountered three similar couples, friends of P from his Dreamboys days , all in their late thirties or early forties, all with their three ageing falang boyfriends. One French, one American and one British.

The Pattaya we knew and loved has almost disappeared, the evening entertainment I enjoyed twenty years ago is only a shadow of its past but for some of us, what has remained is just as enjoyable and perhaps more lasting.

Manforallseasons

March 10th, 2021, 14:31

Re: Three Friends......God help them!

Oliver2

March 10th, 2021, 15:34

Yes indeed. I should have added that long-distance relationships are frequently painful.

latintopxxx

March 11th, 2021, 01:15

...whats wrong with you all...as usual I'm way way way ahead of you...whats wrong with having a partner...someone i dare say you love...someone you build up a life with...who irritates you and somehow you miss when he's away...and simultaneously have random casual sex...beyween my regulat fwb and random grindr hook uos I hardly have time to scatch my gonads...now double that as my parrtner thin ks along the same line as me...also very proudly a total slut...life sexually speaking couldnt be better...

Ruthrieston

March 11th, 2021, 10:24

My first trip to Thailand was 23 years ago in the company of friends who knew the place well. Around 2005 I fell for a young gentleman working in My Life for Happiness bar in Boyztown, ended up taking him to live with me in London and had one of the first Civil Partnerships in Chelsea Town Hall. About nine months later he told me he missed Thailand and his family and Thai food too much and I bought him a flight back home. When I retired and came to live in Pattaya I promised myself I would not fall in love again, and had a great time being a butterfly, lasted nine months and fell again. Our relationship lasted six and a half years, though I could not expect him to live with me and paid for a nice room for him, but saw him every day. Breaking up with him was seriously painful. More than two years on I still miss him, but also enjoying my freedom. More than nine years now I have lived in Pattaya and they have been some of the best years of my life.

dinagam

March 11th, 2021, 13:03

Oliver2

March 11th, 2021, 13:31

....and an extended family. Whether you like it or not!

Manforallseasons

March 11th, 2021, 13:39

latintopxxx

March 11th, 2021, 14:12

mfas...why so bitter...

Dodger

March 11th, 2021, 14:52

Correct me if I'm wrong I'm assuming your partner is about your age. How do elderly couples conjugate?

More importantly, how do couples with huge age gaps conjugate?

I think the average age gap between a farang and his much younger Thai counterpart is probably somewhere around 35 years which is enormous. This pertains to both str8 and gay couples.

Just from the naked-eye, the successful long-term relationships that I've seen involve couples who have similar interests...know the importance of setting realistic expectations...and respect each others boundaries.

A common set of values involving love, commitment, and companionship. come into play in successful relationships as well, and these have very little to do with age.

Oliver2

March 11th, 2021, 15:48

I don't know if it's still available ( I bought my copy in Royal Garden about seventeen years ago) but "Thailand Fever" is worth a read in this context. It's written by an American and concerns falang relationships with Thai women- specifically bar-girls. Helpfully, much of it is also translated into Thai so that our partners can read it too. Most but not all of it is relevant to gay relationships.

And one Thai word it taught me is "getanyu".

It was relevant because, in our early days, mutual incomprehension was sometimes an issue between P and me and that word, "getanyu" , sometimes cropped-up. It isn't easily translatable but it describes an important element in the sort of thing Dodger is discussing.

In short, it describes a love for someone who has supported, cared for and guided you. Most often, of course, a parent. It implies duty, responsibility and a lifetime commitment.

The romantic and physical elements are not there and are even harder to define but I found it a help when P and I were beginning to get to know each other when we had first passed beyond the favourite bar-boy/client stage.

Manforallseasons

March 11th, 2021, 17:58

latintopxxx

March 12th, 2021, 01:26

partner and i are of the same age...we both contribute....no kept boys here in our relationship...need someone i can actually talk to and relate to...half the time teens/twenty somethings are on a nother planet ...i dont care for their music (rap is the devils invention) and i dont care for their thoughts...most are addled game plaing twits...they r only good for one thing...we both have a wide circle of fwb augmented by grindr "dates"..some of which we reward for their services.....the covid pandemic has decimated the hospitality sector...lots of these uni students would have been working as part time waiters....they need the cash...we have noticed an increase in the number & quality of grindr dates looking for "rewards"...fun times...have 2 spare bedrooms...one we keep for guests...the other houses the house boy...house boys get rotated out every year or so when we tire of them...cant recall last time i vacumed or emptiedn tghe dish washer....thats house boys duty...and btw...thats what he gets called...he's always available for sex...thats his main role..u woulkd be surprised at how many subs are out there craving a 24/7 role...the selection hands on interview process can be fun...like i said...life is good...

StevieWonders

March 12th, 2021, 03:55

More importantly, how do couples with huge age gaps conjugate?

I think the average age gap between a farang and his much younger Thai counterpart is probably somewhere around 35 years which is enormous. This pertains to both str8 and gay couples.

Just from the naked-eye, the successful long-term relationships that I've seen involve couples who have similar interests...know the importance of setting realistic expectations...and respect each others boundaries.

A common set of values involving love, commitment, and companionship. come into play in successful relationships as well, and these have very little to do with age.One of my friends is celebrating a 55+ years age gap. Mind you he likes bossing people around so from the outside the relationship looks more like pet and owner than anything else. The turnover averages 5 years or so.

Brad the Impala

March 12th, 2021, 04:41

I agree with Dodger that a 35 year age difference with a Thai boy is not out of the norm however, how can you have common interests with someone 35 years younger let alone from a completely different culture

No wonder you are not having fun with that attitude!

Possible common interests:

Having a good time
Sex
Sense of Humour
Travel
Exploring
Good food(you won't both like all the same things, find the crossover points)
Live Music
Movies
Sport
Did I mention sex?

latintopxxx

March 12th, 2021, 06:05

Zebedee

March 12th, 2021, 06:23

More importantly, how do couples with huge age gaps conjugate?.

No problem. eg

Conjugate Latin- Amo = English - I love

Indicative
Present

amō
amās
amat
amā́mus
amā́tis
amant

Pity there was no google when I was 16....or internet for that matter. LOL

arsenal

March 12th, 2021, 06:56

Don't be so modest Zebs. When you were 16 the abacus was still high technology. Hahahahaha.

MFAS and latin are right. A relationship with someone of such a huge age difference could never work, for them.

All those subjects Brad mentioned are exactly those I talk about with my offs and you can add motorbikes, football and how annoying their girlfriends are to that list.

If you're setting up shop with a boy 35+ years younger than you then you have a moral responsibility to leave him provided for because you're taking the best years if his life.

latin is right, most 20 something year olds are pretty vacuous. Except, ironically in Thailand where they often have responsibilities way beyond their years. Kids, parents etc.

Fuck I Miss Pattaya.

latintopxxx

March 12th, 2021, 07:56

...girl friends...yes...annoying but also really erotic...something deliciously decadent about telling the g/fto wait outside perched on the motorbike while u enjoy the butch b/f rear region...

cdnmatt

March 12th, 2021, 08:02

35 year age gap wouldn't really work for me, as I'm not really into pre-schoolers. They're awesome and all, but not really boyfriend material.

No question that it can easily work out though. The best farang friend I had in Kohn kaen was an older Australian guy, we'll call him P. I can't recall exact ages, but 35 - 40 year age gap is about right.

They took to each upon first meeting, P totally fell in love with him and sounds like it was returned at least. They ended up living together for 2 or 3 years, then one day the Thai guy in his early 20s, we'll call him A, just up and left one day. Just told P he's leaving him without any real explanation, then walked right out of his life, leaving my friend totally devastated and confused as to what just happened.

Just after the breakup is when I first met and became friends. We ended up living just down the street from each other, as Kim and myself took over their old house while him and his two roomates at the time moved to a bigger house down the street, so we ended up having beers most nights together and I was there for the consoling period. Poor P was just devastated for months, and couldn't understand what went wrong. Seemed like the reason was two fold, a) P viewed it as too much of a romantic boyfriend same level type of relationship, and b) A became a little too comfortable with the nice life and seemingly forgot how harsh the real world is.

About 6 months ticked by, and A ended up reaching out to P again, and they reconnected. They got back together, ended up living together again, and seemed to have worked out their differences. After talking with P, he said it morphed into more of an uncle - nephew type fo relationship, which he was totally fine with, and since then everything seemed absolutely great.

They were together for a good number more years before I left Khon Kaen, and I just can't see them breaking up again. They honestly made a really good couple, and were good for each other. One of those couples where when you see them together, you can tell, they just fit and it works.

After writing that, man I miss Khon Kaen now. Can't wait to get vaccinated and get out of here and back to Asia.

dinagam

March 12th, 2021, 09:02

...girl friends...yes...annoying but also really erotic...something deliciously decadent about telling the g/fto wait outside perched on the motorbike while u enjoy the butch b/f rear region...

I simply like your decadent ways...

StevieWonders

March 12th, 2021, 09:18

latintopxxx

March 12th, 2021, 09:39

i did suggest that...sort of a reverse cucold guy porn...but he wasnt having any of that, think she assumed he was topping me...i reallyt enjoyed pulling him off his bike leaving her behind...and last tyime I had him I actually ran across the g/f at the entrance to walking street and got her to call him for an off...assume he's a straight as he never got even slightly hard...but then thats not a real indicator of sexuality...so who knows..

StevieWonders

March 12th, 2021, 09:51

assume he's a straight as he never got even slightly hard...but then thats not a real indicator of sexuality...so who knows..I’ve been with 100% bottoms who lost their hard-on the moment they were penetrated by any of the attendees so I agree that getting/maintaining an erection “proves” nothing, one way or the other. I’m sure I’m not the only person here who remembers the tattooed guy at Nature Boy who was, I recall, either married or heterosexually entangled but who was not only versatile with guys but enjoyed rimming his customers.

Dodger

March 12th, 2021, 15:18

35 year gap would make my partner illegal in every country I know of...but even a 30 year gap would be trying...what do you have in common with a 16 or 18 year old...even more difficult if he's from another culture...cant even enjoy english humour...goes right over their heads...nah...i need a partner thats I can relate to on many level.s...sex is sport....have it by the bucket load.....love is something far more complex...requires a lot of work and commitment..

Sometimes I wonder which has more of an impact: The age gap, or a gap between personalities and interests.

Jai and I think so much alike...truly like being with each other...don't take everything so seriously...make it a habit to laugh more than complain...and understand that keeping things fresh in a relationship (especially with the age gap) takes work.

He's the same age as my daughter. Freaks me out sometimes just thinking about it. But it works...we're happy...what else matters?

latintopxxx

March 12th, 2021, 15:37

guess im simply impatient...reason Im not into teens...too much hard work...Im no trainer....if it works for you Dodger...great..souynds like you put a lot of work into it....many would struggle...but like Jesus said in the bible...."the harder you work..the luckier you get...funny that"

Oliver2

March 12th, 2021, 15:50

Nothing else matters if it works for both you. Many would say that the fact that you are of different ethnic backgrounds allows only erotic desire. Or that you have nothing, or little in common.. Or that you are educated to wildly-different levels. Or come from different social classes. And different religions.

None of this matters. My one straight LTR fulfilled all the received expectations before I came out. I liked, but did not love her. And the relationship failed. Now I love someone who fulfils none of these expectations. It may be mysterious but it has happened.

Uranus

March 12th, 2021, 15:55

I’m sure I’m not the only person here who remembers the tattooed guy at Nature Boy who was, I recall, either married or heterosexually entangled but who was not only versatile with guys but enjoyed rimming his customers.

Yes, what happened to that tattooed guy. He sort of disappeared from the bar at one time.

dinagam

March 12th, 2021, 16:03

Oliver2

March 12th, 2021, 16:49

And He has always had a great sense of humour with a penchant for ambushing the unwary.

Dodger

March 12th, 2021, 18:41

......guess im simply impatient...reason Im not into teens...too much hard work...Im no trainer....

My partner is 30 y/o and has actually been OUT longer than me. I thought I knew everything.

Sex with younger guys rocks. To your point, some have been laybacks and needed some coaching - but I've been with some 18 y/o's that have rocked the rafters. The luck of the draw I guess.

cdnmatt

March 12th, 2021, 18:54

I remember Kim telling me about a previous boyfriend he had. We were sitting at some restaurant on the side of the highway, on our way back from the village.

He said his boyfriend back then was 23 years old, so I asked him how old he was at the time. He said 11, and he said it so nonchalantly like it was completely normal, I didn't even know what to make of it. I just shrugged it off and continued the conversation as normal, because I didn't know what else to say. He quite obviously didn't see an issue with it whatsoever, and I wasn't about to make it one, so that was that...

Definitely made me realize why there was never any training required with him though.

dinagam

March 12th, 2021, 19:08

In Thailand they start becoming conscious of sex and gender matters from a rather young age, especially nowadays with the ubiquitous smartphone...

A photo attached to this post has been deleted.

A447
Moderator

Dodger

March 13th, 2021, 09:58

.

......He said his boyfriend back then was 23 years old, so I asked him how old he was at the time. He said 11.

Actually, not that unusual in Thailand.

During my time up in Kantaralak (SiSaket) there was a small group of ladyboys in the village who would regularity orchestrate orgies with local village boys who were in that same age group. They referred to them as "Candy".

They grow up fast here. By the time a Thai boy turns 18 he's probably seen more - done more - and is less inhibited about sex in general, than the average 50 year old gay punter from the West.

Finding a nice Thai boyfriend is the easy part. For a Thai boy, finding a compatible farang (regardless of his numerical age) that's mature enough to handle the realities of life in Thailand without all those shallow western ideologies (mostly emotional) has to be a daunting task. Sometimes I think that all-to-common phrase ..."you think too much" is simply their polite way of saying..."just shut the fuck up"

Armando

March 13th, 2021, 10:29

In Thailand they start becoming conscious of sex and gender matters from a rather young age, especially nowadays with the ubiquitous smartphone...
Sadly some are made fully aware of sex by members of their extended families. I must have come across half a dozen guys who were abused and raped in their early teens by older family members - usually uncles (although that term probably applies to anyone). Even more sadly, two had been infected with HIV by those same uncles. The impression I have is that this is not uncommon.

StevieWonders

March 13th, 2021, 11:01

Sadly some are made fully aware of sex by members of their extended families. I must have come across half a dozen guys who were abused and raped in their early teens by older family members - usually uncles (although that term probably applies to anyone). Even more sadly, two had been infected with HIV by those same uncles. The impression I have is that this is not uncommon.Not uncommon worldwide. Most child abuse is by fathers, brothers and uncles

StevieWonders

March 13th, 2021, 11:03

Finding a nice Thai boyfriend is the easy part. For a Thai boy, finding a compatible farang (regardless of his numerical age) that's mature enough to handle the realities of life in Thailand without all those shallow western ideologies (mostly emotional) has to be a daunting task. Sometimes I think that all-to-common phrase ..."you think too much" is simply their polite way of saying..."just shut the fuck up"What the boy or girl has to handle is the perception that by going with a westerner they are a prostitute and the greater the age difference the more certain the perception.

a447

March 13th, 2021, 11:06

My experience of living and travelling in Asia for most of my life has demonstrated to me that Asians, by and large, have a totally relaxed attitude to sex compared with their Western counterparts.

This may be based on the Buddhist philosophy that many Asian countries share - a philosophy which does not go out of its way to condemn sex or see it as something we should not engage in.

I remember seeing a hen's party at a karaoke club in Perth. The singing stopped, everyone sat down and out came a male stripper. The bride-to-be sat on a chair while the stripper thrust his crotch into her face and did his thing. The show ended with her removing his G-string and getting her photo taken holding his massive, but soft, member. I almost came in my pants.

When the bar got back to normal I leant over to the girls' table and asked them where the host clubs were.

"What do you mean?"

"You know; clubs where wonen go to fool around with male hosts. Like the guy who put on the show tonight."

They didn't have a clue what I was talking about. And they were shocked that such a club would even exist.

In Japan and Korea such host clubs are enormously popular among women of all ages and there is no stigma attached to enjoying the company of male hosts. After all, their husbands go to hostess clubs, so why not? The attitude is that's is only a bit of erotic fun so let's just enjoy it.

I've been to a few such clubs as a guest of female friends who knew my "interests" but it was all rather tame. It wasn't the female version of Eros or Niceboys, that's for sure. One night they had a "Roman orgy" night where the guys were dressed in togas and were naked underneath. I was desperate to go for the grope but somehow managed to control myself, despite being enthusiastically encouraged by the group. I think the guy may have been up for it but I wasn't sure. None of the women I was with touched the guy. When I asked why, they said they weren't particularly interested in cock but it was nice to know that it was there of they wanted it.

I think their differing attitude to sex and eroticism is based on their society's religious values.

I found another clue to the Asian rather uninhibited attitude towards sex, especially by young, on a visit to Bali. I was sitting on the beach practising my Indonesian with a bunch of young villagers who had come into town for the national holiday. They told me all about their village life and how hard it was. I asked them what they did for entertainment. They said traditional dancing and sex - and from a young age. That was it - no internet to speak of, no place to watch movies, no sporting facilities. Nothing. And who do they have sex with? Their peers, apparently. And they told me they all lost their virginity while they were high school students. Not only is it the best form of entertainment, it's also free. Where do they do it? Behind the temple walls, in the surrounding jungle, down by the river. And the guys seem to enjoy group sex, or at least have no problem performing in front of others.

Whatsmore, they told me it was common practice for their fathers to have affairs. Same same in other Asian cultures.

It's that free-wheeling spirit that brings me back to Asia time and time again.

cdnmatt

March 13th, 2021, 12:08

finding a compatible farang (regardless of his numerical age) that's mature enough to handle the realities of life in Thailand without all those shallow western ideologies (mostly emotional) has to be a daunting task. Sometimes I think that all-to-common phrase ..."you think too much" is simply their polite way of saying..."just shut the fuck up"

Yeah, I know what you mean. So who here is guilty of making a really innocent PG rated sexual joke while having a few drinks with folks in the West, only to be met with gasps of shock and horror as to how you could ever say something like that?

Done that a couple times, and had to check myself. Whoops, wrong crowd! People here can be such prudes...

Dodger

March 13th, 2021, 14:23

What the boy or girl has to handle is the perception that by going with a westerner they are a prostitute and the greater the age difference the more certain the perception.

Every time I've visited a boys home village for the first time - I've felt like The Pervert of the West for this very same reason. The boys, on-the-other-hand, seem to walk with a sense of pride, and the family members rarely, if ever, projected anything other than friendly and positive feelings (good karma).

Having a farang boyfriend or husband is often viewed by Thais as a status symbol. Everyone in the family understands the nature of the relationship, how the two met, etc. Words are seldom needed.

Age doesn't carry the "big stigma" like it does in western culture. To a Thai Buddhist, life is a never-ending circle. It's endless. The only way you could really know how old you were in this lifetime - is to know exactly when you were going to die. And of course, unless you were planning to commit suicide, that would be impossible to ascertain. It's for this reason that Thais don't place as much emphasis on a persons numerical age (how many years a person has been present in his current life), because that becomes irrelevant. What is relevant, is what a person has inside himself (Karma). That's why its so important for a farang to be on their best behaviors the first time they meet a Thai family.

Thais have an uncanny ability to see inside a person. You'll be judged by who you "truly are", not by your age, the color of your hair, the size of your wallet, or even by how you attempt to have others perceive you. After hearing me say this, think back and try to remember how many really undesirable farangs that you've known, that have been invited to meet a boys family. You know, the loud mouth, rude, showoff types. You'll find that the number you come up with is ZERO. It just won't happen.

A question Undaunted posed earlier in this thread, was a valid question: What do we have in common with them?

Answer: If a farang has the same internal values, and views the important aspects of life through the same lens, then he has everything in common with them. If he doesn't understand, or simply choses not to accept these aspects of Thai culture, then he has very little in common with them. It's really that simple.

StevieWonders

March 13th, 2021, 15:55

When the 17th Century actress Nell Gwynn - someone Ms Markle should have taken as a role model IMO - was being driven through the streets of London her carriage was attacked by the mob. They perceived incorrectly that the passenger was a French Roman Catholic rival and wished her harm. Perceptions are everything. They are the basis of conspiracy theories (including the one current on this Forum). Perceptions are part of who we are and include class and culture.

The guys we mix with are almost all peasants, the rural poor. A rich foreigner is an escape route for the entire family. As I’ve been told by some of them “What else can poor people do?”. I don’t doubt Dodger’s perceptions but I recognise that’s what they are - his perceptions. I know I won’t change Dodger’s perceptions.

Nell Gwynn was lucky - she did change the mob’s perceptions that she was French and a Roman Catholic. Did I mention that Nell and Louise were both a mistress of King Charles II? And actress was definitely a lower class occupation. Ladies didn’t work then. She leaned out of the carriage window and cried out “Dear people, I am the Protestant whore”.

One of my favourite anecdotes.

cdnmatt

March 13th, 2021, 18:02

Well, the perception is the Thai guy is shacking up with the farang for financial benefit, because well, that's the reality. No real way of getting around that one.

Now the question is what do most folks who we'd be in contact with think of such a relationship? My experience is the same as Dodger's, and they genuinely don't care. As long as you're a decent guy, respectful and have a good heart, everyone will be either supportive or apathetic of the relationship, and you'll have no problem at all being treated with warmth and kindness.

Then next question is, is it an unhealthy relationship? I'll go with no, and I'm sure we could all write hundreds of pages about screwed up relationships in the West, so...

Then is the relationship genuine? Of course it is, why wouldn't it be? Or how couldn't it be? You don't live with someone for years, seeing each other nearly every day, and it not being genuine. That's just not how human nature works.

arsenal

March 13th, 2021, 19:53

Armando wrote.
"Sadly some are made fully aware of sex by members of their extended families. I must have come across half a dozen guys who were abused and raped in their early teens by older family members - usually uncles (although that term probably applies to anyone)."

Yes. When treehuggers get all mouthy about protecting those tiny isolated tribes I do wonder if they know what they are protecting. Probably best not to delve too deeply. Remember Pitcairn Island.

Manforallseasons

March 13th, 2021, 20:29

A question Undaunted posed earlier in this thread, was a valid question: What do we have in common with them?

Answer: If a farang has the same internal values, and views the important aspects of life through the same lens, then he has everything in common with them. If he doesn't understand, or simply choses not to accept these aspects of Thai culture, then he has very little in common with them. It's really that simple.

It is not that simple as you have taken what I wrote totally out of context, what I wrote was in response to your speaking specifically of Boys 35 years younger than the falangs they are with.

Nirish guy

March 13th, 2021, 21:48

“Dear people, I am the Protestant whore”..

To be fair I've been known to shout that out the odd window myself here in Northern Ireland when the occasion called for it :-)

StevieWonders

March 14th, 2021, 05:30

Well, the perception is the Thai guy is shacking up with the farang for financial benefit, because well, that's the reality. No real way of getting around that one.

Now the question is what do most folks who we'd be in contact with think of such a relationship? My experience is the same as Dodger's, and they genuinely don't care. As long as you're a decent guy, respectful and have a good heart, everyone will be either supportive or apathetic of the relationship, and you'll have no problem at all being treated with warmth and kindness.Tell us about the role of conflict avoidance in Thai culture and social interactions, Matt. Most observers believe it’s the basis of the “Thai smile”. Oh, and “face” - you know, where you don’t try to make someone lose “face”.

latintopxxx

March 14th, 2021, 07:43

bit of a myth that the Thais dont care ...what you mean is that the shit poor ones "dont care" because its a way out of desperate poverty...he saves face by being a source of cash extracted from the booty mesmerised farang...the middle class (and up) most definitely frown upon the sex trade and hate the fact the Thailand is renown for cheap plentiful young (ok some not so young) sex workers...bit like the wealthy Brazilians in Sao Paulo who hate the connotation with soccer, samba and carnival party. If you dare bring the sex trade up in conversation with ordinarty middle/upper class Thais in a professional enviornment you will notice a definite chill in the room...
Even Thai mbs hate it being brought up...more than once I'll be all saddled up and riding my latest butt boy thanks to grindr when he wants to change position or complains about something and I'll loudly declare that he money boy so must make me happy...so funny...almost always its no me student/waiter...whatever...only need money for bus go home...even whores dont wanna admit it...so plse enough of this so called accepting world that exists in Thailand...it onlky exists in your heads..

StevieWonders

March 14th, 2021, 08:23

Some background reading - https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/5-common-miscommunications-between-foreigners-and-thais/

Dodger

March 14th, 2021, 10:48

If you dare bring the sex trade up in conversation with ordinarty middle/upper class Thais in a professional enviornment you will notice a definite chill in the room...

Sincerely, no offense intended, but I actually started laughing out loud when I read this.

My first 3 years in Thailand were totally business related, and my first introduction to Thailand's sex trade was at the curtesy of a group of upper-class business professionals. The first private club they took me to was located in the back alleys of Bangkok...members only...boys and girls on staff...I don't even want to mention the ages of some...anything goes...and the only chill in the room was coming from a host of AC units strategically placed in areas where the hottest action was going on.

I had 3 years of exposure to the types of environments described above which catered exclusively to the middle and upper classes, and believe me, there was never a chill in the board room during our morning meetings when we talked about our evenings out - as long as the microphones were turned off and the janitor was out of the room.

All a Thai prostitute has to do is change the walk and start saying "how do you do" instead of "up to you" and they fit in just fine. Half the movie stars you see in Thailand used to have numbers pinned to their hips. Nobody in Thai High Society even cares (even at the absolute highest levels).

THIS IS THAILAND!

cdnmatt

March 14th, 2021, 11:06

Tell us about the role of conflict avoidance in Thai culture and social interactions, Matt. Most observers believe it’s the basis of the “Thai smile”. Oh, and “face” - you know, where you don’t try to make someone lose “face”.

I don't know, then folks over there must be excellent actors, because that smile sure seemed genuine. And not just the smile, but all the actions to back up the smile. If they secretly despised me because I was shacking up with a younger Thai guy, then what was all the random acts of kindness and friendship about, not to mention the countless number of times I was offered a helping hand?

Why would some neighbors keep showing up at my house with plates of food? I remember making reusable bags cool in my neighborhood, and three of the shop owners ended up giving me free bags because they knew I like them. After I went blind, one shop owner even gave me a free walking cane one night when I was there, and I'm guessing they didn't have one just laying around, meaning they pro-actively went into town and got it. How about back when I was sighted all the times neighbors or others who knew me seen me walking around the city, and stopped to offer me a ride somewhere? And the countless number of things, as I could go on for hundreds of pages, as I'm sure others here could.

They all knew I was shacking up with Kim, and later Leo. Are you really so pessimistic that you want me to believe all that was fake, and they all secretly despised me? Again, if that's the case, they're some excellent actors who go way above and beyond hiding their true feelings of me, because it didn't seem like that at all.

Or maybe... most out that way are just down to earth folks who embrace a "live and let Live" mantra. Maybe they don't really care about the trivial dynamics of the relationship, and instead simply see it for what it is -- a relationship where both people are decent guys, and both are better off with each other than without, because that's the reality of the situation.

Maybe it's as simple as that. As long as you're good for each other, benefit each other, make each other happy, and are both decent and respectful people, then they'll either be supportive or at the very least apathetic to the relationship.

Dodger

March 14th, 2021, 11:17

It is not that simple as you have taken what I wrote totally out of context, what I wrote was in response to your speaking specifically of Boys 35 years younger than the falangs they are with.

Sorry. I see your point.

As far as "cultural acceptance" the age gap really has little meaning IMO.

As far as having common interests goes, which I agree is probably the most important thing, it would first depend of what a farangs personal interests were - and then trying to find a partner with similar interests.

I know one expat who's primary interests seem to be sitting in front of his TV watching Cricket matches, complaining about his ex-wife who stole his house (37 years ago). and sitting at a bar with a flock of other silver-hairs (or, raccoon heads) every night getting drunk on G&T's. He hates Thai food...doesn't speak a single word of the language...and has no interest whatsoever in learning about the culture. I imagine finding a Thai boy with similar interests may be just a tad challenging for this chap.

Hell, not every farang even wants to be partnered with someone this much younger. It's definitely not for everyone. I'll even go as far as saying it's not for the majority.

StevieWonders

March 14th, 2021, 11:18

I don't know, then folks over there must be excellent actors, because that smile sure seemed genuine. And not just the smile, but all the actions to back up the smile. That was before you became blind was it?

Dodger

March 14th, 2021, 11:33

......Maybe they don't really care about the trivial dynamics of the relationship, and instead simply see it for what it is -- a relationship where both people are decent guys, and both are better off with each other than without, because that's the reality of the situation.

You just hit the nail right on the head!

arsenal

March 14th, 2021, 11:43

For every roses round the door, white picket fence, baking for the village fete, pinnie on in the kitchen, let's get a puppy, your mother's coming to stay for a month..wonderful, come on it's our favourite tv show, buying matching t-shirts, no honestly I really love that colour, traipsing round the supermarket with money off coupons, let's get a kitten, we must have the neighbours round for a fondue, we need to economize, you've crashed the bike AGAIN, you know they're 8 baht cheaper at ××× bliss on Earth enjoyed by Dodger there are 1000s of farangs left sobbing are their depleted bank account and their utter foolishness. Avoid avoid avoid. Wouldn't get me in a bzilion years.

But.
If he did. It's a Dachshund.

StevieWonders

March 14th, 2021, 12:20

For every roses round the door ... There are pansies hanging around my front door.

Manforallseasons

March 14th, 2021, 14:29

I have made a few Thai friends that are well educated and relatively well off, when with them I feel little if any cultural issues but they are also much older than the boys Dodger speaks of being 35 years younger, they also would not think it a prize if any of their children married a falang.

Dodger

March 14th, 2021, 15:01

...... they also would not think it a prize if any of their children married a falang.

I can't say that I blame them.

cdnmatt

March 14th, 2021, 15:46

they also would not think it a prize if any of their children married a falang.

What if it was Robert Downey Jr.? They could become Iron Man's father-in-law. Can't say that wouldn't be cool.

francois

March 14th, 2021, 16:09

I think the average age gap between a farang and his much younger Thai counterpart is probably somewhere around 35 years which is enormous. This pertains to both str8 and gay couples.
.

I have a friend whose bf is 55 years younger than he. My range extends from 60 to 40 years difference in age. The common ingredient is money!

Dodger

March 14th, 2021, 18:59

I have a friend whose bf is 55 years younger than he. My range extends from 60 to 40 years difference in age. The common ingredient is money!

Hey, whatever rocks his world!

With a 55 year age gap, the farang has to spend his money on something...and it sure as hell isn't gonna be on any green banana's at the market.

On a serious note, I know several retired expats who are in their 80's who literally wouldn't be able to cope living alone. Their live-in partner in this context is providing a "care service" for pay regardless of how you want to frame it. The alternative, would be to reside in a senior care facility, which some do.

Zebedee

March 14th, 2021, 20:45

As the owner of another gay board says, " If you want love, rent it "

Oliver2

March 14th, 2021, 22:08

He means sex. There is a difference.

latintopxxx

March 15th, 2021, 02:12

...no matter how you present it, its something that only the poor will entertain...middle/upper class gay Thais will find someone of similar age/status to live with...preferably also Thai...there are exceptions ...daddy chasers are a thing...but no Thai wants to be seen as a money boy ...even when im riding it doggy style...engorged member deeply embedded...slapping the rump...it will still proclaim...me no mb...me student...want money for bus go home...
So guys...sorry to shatter the illusion...

snotface

March 15th, 2021, 12:34

The gay message boards have been going for twenty-plus years now and what was the big debate back in the early days? - is it possible for a bar boy to fall in love with an older farang or only be interested in the money? Romantics versus realists. Endlessly obsessed over, endlessly unresolved. (One famously long-running thread was called The Wallet, I seem to recall). The issue doesn't crop up anywhere near as often nowadays (been done to death) but still, as in this thread, makes the occasional guest appearance for old times' sake.

My own two penn'orth based on long experience: yes, bar boys do sometimes fall for older farangs but usually when the farang is at the younger end of the scale (say 40s rather than 70s) and has a presentable appearance and attractive personality. Much more frequent, I think, is for a boy to grow genuinely fond of a farang who is kind and caring and willing to help the boy financially in moderation (a farang throwing money around is more likely to earn secret contempt than respect). In this context the relationship is perhaps more likely to work well if the farang is on the older side and perceived by the boy to be more reliable, even when he knows that the farang might see other boys too. Such relationships can be very satisfying for both parties.

The relationships most likely to fail are ones where the expectations are way too high on both sides (been there, done that). Compromise, especially on the farang's part, seems inescapable to me if an older farang wants to have that absurd thing, a close relationship with a sexy, handsome, much younger guy. Most relationships will end eventually, of course, whatever effort goes into them. That's just life, gay or straight, bar scene or otherwise. Still seems worth the effort to me. I can see the logic of those who consider any kind of emotional commitment with bar boys to be asking for trouble. I've certainly had my share of such troubles. As long as I'm still solvent after my various escapades I continue unbowed!

StevieWonders

March 15th, 2021, 13:33

I take Prince Charles’ answer when asked if he and Loopy Diana were “in love” as my guide. He replied “Whatever that is”.

Dodger

March 15th, 2021, 13:41

......bar boys do sometimes fall for older farangs but usually when the farang is at the younger end of the scale (say 40s rather than 70s) and has a presentable appearance and attractive personality.

I totally agree with every point you made in your post above, and particularly like what you said in the quote above.

It blows my mind every time the subject of "love me - love me not" comes up, as if there's a "one-shoe-fits-all" answer.

Christ...half the working boys in Thailand are str8-for-pay (pony ride rentals), where relationships between them and farang punters are obviously based purely on $$$money$$$. The other half are gay or bi boys, who, if they had their way, would be coupled with personable - good-looking - young farang studs - not someone old enough to be their father, grandfather, great grandfather, and in some cases, great-great grandfathers, regardless if the relationship was based on sex-for-pay or not.

To Latintopxxx point, no working boy (or girl) wants to walk around with a label of "Prostitute" stapled to their foreheads. Most would want to be able to have their cake and eat it too. Meaning, be hooked up with a hot young farang who's financially stable and knows how to take care of them. That's the icing on the cake. Unfortunately, that only happens in "fairy tales" (meant literally).

a447

March 15th, 2021, 14:40

...but no Thai wants to be seen as a money boy

Maybe they don't want to be seen that way but in all of Pattaya and in the gay area of Bangkok (Silom) many just don't care. Afterall, every man and his dog (figuratively speaking) has a young guy or girl in tow.

But I don't think they'd be too happy wandering our of the gay ghettos with their ageing farang.

From talking to the guys over the years, they don't give too much thought to what they are doing; they just treat it as a job. My friend in Pattaya has a brother working in the gay bars and a sister working in a bar in Walking Street. He didn't display any signs of embarrassment when he introduced me to his brother, nor when he told me matter-of-factly about his sister.

Nor did he bat an eyelid when I chuck-wowed his brother in front of him in the bar.

"Tham gan. Tham gan". That's what they say.

Don't you just love the attitude!

BTW, when I was talking about the relaxed and uninhibited Asian take on sex, I forgot to mention the number of times sex came up as a topic around the family dinner table in Japan.

On one occasion I was spending the weekend at a friends family house in the country. We were discussing the next day's early start and I said we must remember to set the alarm clock, otherwise I won't be able to get out of bed.

"Don't worry," said his young sister."His morning wank will wake you up. He's been my alarm clock for years!"

The whole family, including grandma, just collapsed with laughter.

And I went to bed that night dreaming about tomorrow's wake up alarm! Lol

francois

March 15th, 2021, 15:22

The other half are gay or bi boys, who, if they had their way, would be coupled with personable - good-looking - young farang studs - not someone old enough to be their father, grandfather, great grandfather, and in some cases, great-great grandfathers, regardless if the relationship was based on sex-for-pay or not.

May I ask where do you and your boyfriend fit on the above scale? 555

For me, my bfs are my caregivers.:mocking_mini:

goji

March 15th, 2021, 15:25

.... boys, who, if they had their way, would be coupled with personable - good-looking - young farang studs - not someone old enough to be their father, grandfather, great grandfather, and in some cases, great-great grandfathers, regardless if the relationship was based on sex-for-pay or not.

There's one working boy in Pattaya who I've only ever seen with young farang in their 20s or early 30s. Typically the same one for a couple of weeks, then shortly afterwards, a replacement is found.
Even with covid restrictions, he's kept up standards, as I saw him accompanying a 30 something farang to Jomtien immigration.

StevieWonders

March 15th, 2021, 15:31

Maybe they don't want to be seen that way but in all of Pattaya and in the gay area of Bangkok (Silom) many just don't care. Afterall, every man and his dog (figuratively speaking) has a young guy or girl in tow.

But I don't think they'd be too happy wandering our of the gay ghettos with their ageing farang.

From talking to the guys over the years, they don't give too much thought to what they are doing; they just treat it as a job. My friend in Pattaya has a brother working in the gay bars and a sister working in a bar in Walking Street. He didn't display any signs of embarrassment when he introduced me to his brother, nor when he told me matter-of-factly about his sister.
Not just brothers or sisters - I’ve met a bar boy whose mother was herself a sex worker who had placed him in a boy bar (his interest was other males as far as I could tell) and he was barely 18 at the time.

Dodger

March 15th, 2021, 16:54

May I ask where do you and your boyfriend fit on the above scale?

I guess we're just floating around there somewhere.

He's never been on the working scene - and I've never been off of it, so this was something new for both of us.

He's a very mature, responsible, artistic, intelligent, and slightly introverted 30 year old - and I am... according to my ex-wife...a very immature child in his sixties who is never going to grow up.

Seriously, we were just lucky to have met. He's 100% gay and would rather date someone Sean Connery's age (when he was alive of course) than Justin Bieber, and if I had my choice, I'd be hitting on Justin, or his younger brother. (does he have a younger brother?). Perfect Match!

As a side note: We spend a fair amount of time visiting his family up in Buriram, and he has no reservations whatsoever about having an older partner. The age gap means nothing. Not to him. Not to me. Not to his family. Not to anyone that we've detected.

goji

March 15th, 2021, 18:45

My friend in Pattaya has a brother working in the gay bars and a sister working in a bar in Walking Street. He didn't display any signs of embarrassment when he introduced me to his brother, nor when he told me matter-of-factly about his sister.

Nor did he bat an eyelid when I chuck-wowed his brother in front of him in the bar.

"Tham gan. Tham gan". That's what they say.

Don't you just love the attitude!

I'd imagine there are limits to this. I've met more than one lad with a sister in Pattaya. If it's one of those girly gogo bars with nudity, I guess taking the lad there might cause some tension.
I'm guessing a lad on stage in Nice Boys be more inhibited than normal, if a customer showed up with his sister.

Dodger

March 15th, 2021, 20:02

I'd imagine there are limits to this. I've met more than one lad with a sister in Pattaya. If it's one of those girly gogo bars with nudity, I guess taking the lad there might cause some tension. I'm guessing a lad on stage in Nice Boys be more inhibited than normal, if a customer showed up with his sister.

Can you imagine how a young Thai girl on a date with a farang felt when he takes her to a gogo bar - only to witness HER MOTHER on stage with her legs spread shooting a ping pong ball out of her pussy. That actually happened.

Can you just imagine the ball hitting her daughter in the head?

Talk about losing face...LOL.

dinagam

March 15th, 2021, 21:46

arsenal

March 16th, 2021, 09:10

Dodger wrote.
"Can you imagine how a young Thai girl on a date with a farang felt when he takes her to a gogo bar...that actually happened."

Romantic. He's quite a catch isn't he.

cdnmatt

March 16th, 2021, 10:07

These are less fortunate people, just like generations of related women serving the brothels of Kolkata and other big cities in India. In the case of Pattaya, there must be cases where four generations of women and men alike have directly served in the red light districts since the first American GIs came for rest and recreation during the Vietnam wars.

This has slowly started to dissipate over the years though. You can tell, because many SGT members are constantly posting about their dismay and discontentment about the economic status of ordinary Thais improving.

Marc K

March 16th, 2021, 10:12

StevieWonders

March 16th, 2021, 10:40

Dunno. Interesting conversation. I guess one gets desensitized over time and cannot actually "feel" unwanted sexual contact. I would imagine your brain turns it off. However I think every human being must have some sense of self and a desire for privacy. After all, most animals have a way of rejecting unwanted sex partners, and males in the animal world go to great lengths to convince the female to choose him over all the other candidates to copulate. I can't see that it is all that different in the human species. We all do what we need to survive but that doesn't mean the partner likes it, enjoys it or welcomes it. We always have to keep that in mind, are you listening latinbottomxxx?You’re assuming everyone starts off the same. They don’t. For example I’ve met a number of people over the years who exhibited some of the signs of autism. My brother once had a boss who was (everyone agreed) “borderline” Asperger’s. His team were gobsmacked when he described himself one day as “a people person”. There’s one poster here who has admitted to having Asperger’s and there are at least two others whose posts might reasonably lead one to a conclusion of probable autism.

StevieWonders

March 16th, 2021, 10:41

This has slowly started to dissipate over the years though. You can tell, because many SGT members are constantly posting about their dismay and discontentment about the economic status of ordinary Thais improving.That’s why they welcome the presence of Khmer, Lao and Burmese boys

cdnmatt

March 16th, 2021, 10:44

That’s why they welcome the presence of Khmer, Lao and Burmese boys

Instead of doing that, I'm just going to move to Laos. Go to the source, baby!

arsenal

March 16th, 2021, 11:19

Matt wrote
"This has slowly started to dissipate over the years though"

Yes, but I think the decreasing numbers of boys correlates to the decline in customers. If your bar is packed full of customers every night you'd have no problem finding boys to work there. Boys follow the money.

StevieWonders

March 16th, 2021, 11:25

arsenal

March 16th, 2021, 12:29

frequent/argosy/steviewonders/mrgiggles wrote.

"There’s one poster here who has admitted to having Asperger’s and there are at least two others whose posts might reasonably lead one to a conclusion of probable autism."

And yourself?

latintopxxx

March 17th, 2021, 02:03

Im not going to even try and pretend to understand how someone makes a living as a MB...easy to equate it to being a waiter or gardener where you get paid for your labour, but I know its not comparable. I think it may be easier if he's straight, then it really is a job, a chore, a series of acts that need to be performed before he gets rewarded. If he's gay it may be more real, as in the sex is actually sex, could be hoping to find a long term off...sugar daddy. who knows, maybe its all the same, straight or gay...and they become desensitised from being used constantly.

Marc K

March 17th, 2021, 04:57

I think you might be right ltxxx that it is easier to be a gay-for-pay straight MB. does that mean that we should choose them because we are less likely to "injure" them or give them false hope that we are actually interested in them?

re desensitization: does it mean that both straight MB and gay MB might develop problems being able to relate to (and enjoy) a real romantic partner in the future as a result of their desensitization? that would be sad.

latintopxxx

March 17th, 2021, 07:46

love and the resultuing sex is hugely enjoyable ...the psychology behind it is complicated... quite different to random sex...paid or free ..its only the physical aspectb that comes into play.....once I'm done I lose interest...think I should know as someone who is addicted to sex...rarely does a day go past that I dont enjoy it...but I still enjoy and have sex with my partner...so the random nameless sex hasnt desensitised me..I would have made a fantastic MB...

StevieWonders

March 17th, 2021, 08:13

I would have made a fantastic MB...If only you would shut up then maybe.

latintopxxx

March 17th, 2021, 08:49

touchy arent we...someones ready for a valium or two

dinagam

March 17th, 2021, 10:38

In his case 1kg of coca leaves a month would be a better alternative...

Dodger

March 17th, 2021, 12:08

......maybe its all the same, straight or gay...and they become desensitized from being used constantly.

In the words of a Gay Thai Working-Boy who was once a renowned "Superstar":

"You turn off your mind and treat it for what it is: You are only selling your body...not yourself".

"Not often, but occasionally, a farang that you're attracted to sexually comes along and you actually enjoy the sex". "But, normally, it's just a series of rehearsed movements, clock-watching, and fake orgasms".

"Most srt8 money-boys have a much harder boat to row, for the mere fact that they are naturally repulsed by being fondled sexually by another male, let alone being penetrated". "They too have the ability to treat this as a job...but doing so requires a different type of control and mindset".

There are also farang who pose as being gay, but are really str8 men who enjoy having intercourse with other str8 men. A very seasoned ladyboy mamasan is the one who educated me on this years ago. Quite an eye-opener. In this scenario, the boy is most commonly requested to be in the bottom role, which, of course, is not the preferred role for a str8 boy. Allowing themselves to be dominated and humiliated comes with the territory for these boys. A job, but not at any time, a fun one. For obvious reasons, a str8 working-boy would much prefer being in the top role with a gay bottom.

The working-boys (gay, bi, or str8) really have a mixed bag to deal with. But somehow they're able to get the job done.

arsenal

March 17th, 2021, 12:36

Dodger wrote.
"A job, but not at any time, a fun one."

It's not a job, it's a small business and I simply don't agree it's no fun at any time. I also think the straight boys find it easier than their less robust gay colleagues. Many of the boys at the remaining go go bars have been there years so it can't be that bad.

Oliver2

March 17th, 2021, 15:07

There are certainly fringe benefits that guys working in (for example) factories don't get. Usually, a short working day. Plenty of friends available to enjoy free time and to support them when funds are low. Sometimes decent money in the pocket. Treats provided by falangs offing them- meals, drinks and so on. The possibility of a LTR with an absent falang who can make only occasional demands on them.
Lots of negatives too, of course.

Dodger

March 17th, 2021, 15:42

I would have made a fantastic MB...

It's never too late to start:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubYScZPz4FI

Dodger

March 17th, 2021, 15:45

touchy arent we...someones ready for a valium or two

Make that five - one for each of them.

Dodger

March 17th, 2021, 15:54

Dodger wrote.

"A job, but not at any time, a fun one."

It's not a job, it's a small business and I simply don't agree it's no fun at any time..

I didn't mean to imply that the str8 guys never have any fun. They just aren't having fun when they're getting fucked in the ass, that's all.

latintopxxx

March 17th, 2021, 23:48

dodger you need to watch more porn....whole section devoted to guys and their girls pegging them...

Dodger

March 18th, 2021, 07:49

dodger you need to watch more porn....whole section devoted to guys and their girls pegging them...

I've seen a few of these and assumed the guys getting dildo'd were "str8 as a rainbow" so to speak.

I've also seen guys (boys) who thought they were str8, only performed sex on top in the missionary position, and now walk around wearing makeup and prefer playing bottom. Go figure!

There's a great guy who's been gracing the stage at Nice Boys/Sunee for years. I first met him when he was just hanging around the Plaza patiently waiting for the day that he could get an ID card. He was str8 as an arrow back then. At least he thought he was.

After ending up on the stage at Nice Boys...he went on the have a ladyboy as a boyfriend...then gradually started to get more flexible with his service offerings and started bottoming. The last time I saw him he told me that he liked his job - but it made him gay. I just laughed, and told him that maybe he was gay from the beginning, and the job just allowed him the freedom to explore his sexuality. Good for him.

The questions below are for anyone to answer:

A) If given the choice, which role would a str8 boy prefer?
B) Do you think some str8 boys enjoy being in the bottom role?
C) Are most str8 boys complacent regarding which position they're going to be in?
D) Do some str8 boys transition from not liking it - to liking it?
E) Why do you think some farang prefer topping str8 boys - versus topping gay boys who prefer the bottom role?

I'm only asking these questions to close a knowledge gap, not for the purpose of criticizing anyone.

StevieWonders

March 18th, 2021, 08:25

Armando

March 18th, 2021, 10:00

The questions below are for anyone to answer:

A) If given the choice, which role would a str8 boy prefer?
B) Do you think some str8 boys enjoy being in the bottom role?
C) Are most str8 boys complacent regarding which position they're going to be in?
D) Do some str8 boys transition from not liking it - to liking it?
E) Why do you think some farang prefer topping str8 boys - versus topping gay boys who prefer the bottom role?

I'm only asking these questions to close a knowledge gap, not for the purpose of criticizing anyone.
I cannot answer any of the questions. But I can recount one experience. Years ago there was a fire above Classic Boys on Soi Twilight and the bar was closed for a few weeks. Most of the boys were farmed out to other bars. One evening in Solid Bar I noticed a new guy who looked around mid-20s and was much less twinky than Solid's usual boys. He looked great and had the loveliest smile. I asked him over for a drink. Turned out he was one farmed out from Classic Boys. I was surprised that he spoke extremely good English and I spent about an hour drinking with him. Realising later that I'd had a really good time, I resolved to return the following week and take him out.

Once at home, I learned he was actually 32, married with two small kids. He had no problem working in the bars and especially enjoyed those offs where he was able to chat in English. Clearly straight, he had no problem being bottom or top depending on the customer's desire. He was one of the best bottoms I met in the bars over quite a number of years. I don't recall topping a straight guy before, but then I rarely ever asked any boy what his preference was. I only told him mine!

About 3 years later I met him again when he was working at the Hotmale 2 beer bar. He was as charming as ever and still looked mid-20s.

Manforallseasons

March 18th, 2021, 11:33

I prefer the company of straight boys, no drama and no “ you not buy me iPhone you not love me” (yuck). The longest relationship I had was with a straight boy from a bar who eventually lived with me and he preferred being a bottom and It was obvious from his erection that he did, he has gone on to be happily married with one daughter.
The previous post mentioned “Classic Boys” there was a straight boy there named plah (fish), he was quite good looking and I took him off when ever he was available, I loved fucking him, he never got erect, I could care less, it wasn’t about him it was about me.

a447

March 18th, 2021, 14:47

My preference is to top straight guys and the more masculine the better. The problem is, they are few and far between.

B) Do you think some str8 boys enjoy being in the bottom role?

I spent many a holiday in Bangkok offing a guy from Super A. He bottomed for me every night and loved it. He was hard as a rock the whole time.

On my last trip I asked my regular from Golden Cock what happened to him (they are close friends from the same village). He told me he returned home and is happily married. His wife just gave birth.

So was he actually gay? No way! I think he knew that most farang want bottoms so he was just increasing his chances of being offed.

Smart boy!

So yes, it seems some straight guys can enjoy being bottoms.

Manforallseasons

March 18th, 2021, 17:30

AK47 when did you become a Top? Who can forget your in-depth stories of how a boy fuck you etc.etc.

StevieWonders

March 18th, 2021, 17:40

AK47 when did you become a Top? Who can forget your in-depth stories of how a boy fuck you etc.etc.Don’t you recall the “please help me become a bottom” posts? Hilarious

a447

March 18th, 2021, 17:44

You mean, when did you become a bottom.

I've been a top all my life but tried bottoming in Japan back in 2014. And I got to like it. Since then I've been versatile.

But I'm really a top - if push comes to shove, so to speak!

Dodger

March 18th, 2021, 20:19

I guess I'm still wondering why guys who enjoy being on the bottom keep getting referred to as being str8?

a447

March 18th, 2021, 20:51

I guess I'm still wondering why guys who enjoy being on the bottom keep getting referred to as being str8?

I think only a straight guy involved in selling his arse would bottom. If no money was changing hands I can't imagine him doing it.

If done properly; i.e. the top knows what he's doing, it feels really good so I can easily understand why he would enjoy it.

StevieWonders

March 18th, 2021, 22:00

I guess I'm still wondering why guys who enjoy being on the bottom keep getting referred to as being str8?It’s more a reflection on the narrowness of your own outlook Dodger. I recall reading once that in some heterosexual brothels occasionally the female sex workers were asked to strap on a dildo and fuck their male customer. Your problem basically is that you still think that binary (“straight” and “gay”) is the way human psychology is organised. It isn’t, as all the scientific research of the last century has shown.

StevieWonders

March 18th, 2021, 22:33

If you go looking (perhaps on your mobile phone) there are porn videos illustrating this phenomenon.

Dodger

March 19th, 2021, 13:44

It’s more a reflection on the narrowness of your own outlook Dodger.

Sorry, (whatever your name is today), the bait you're using is better suited for tadpoles.

Dodger

March 19th, 2021, 14:44

I received responses from all Three Friends referenced in this post answering a few more questions I had for them.

Two of the three say they plan to find a boyfriend and settle down when they return to LOS (hopefully this year) because the scene just isn't what it used to be, and the bars they liked are now closed. Number three said he was considering hanging up his butterfly wings because he simply wouldn't be able to afford bar life on his retirement budget and was tired of bar-boy games.

All valid reasons I guess, but who knows where their paths will lead once they get back here and start smelling the roses again.

All Three are surfing the gay dating apps as we speak.

A comment I felt comfortable including in my responses to all Three Friends was; "Don't just focus on his sexual preference(s), because those can change with the wind...as can yours. Focus of what type of person he is first".

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christianpfc

March 19th, 2021, 22:34

re desensitization: does it mean that both straight MB and gay MB might develop problems being able to relate to (and enjoy) a real romantic partner in the future as a result of their desensitization? that would be sad.
Not just the boys. Sometimes I wonder if being on the hunt for someone new most of the time, changing my sexual partners more frequently than my underwear, a bad habit that I have ingrained for 10 years, makes me unsuitable for a monogamous relationship, or any relationship at all.

love and the resultuing sex is hugely enjoyable ...the psychology behind it is complicated...
I think there is only a loose relationship between sex and love, and certainly not causal as you write. Each can exist without the other, and I can clearly separate them, but many of my sexual partners cannot.

Dodger

March 20th, 2021, 14:03

Sometimes I wonder if being on the hunt for someone new most of the time, changing my sexual partners more frequently than my underwear, a bad habit that I have ingrained for 10 years, makes me unsuitable for a monogamous relationship, or any relationship at all.

I had the exact same thoughts about myself, and didn't think "Relationship Life" was something I was at all qualified for based on my previous untamed lifestyle. I was also dealing with the memories of a tragic ending of a roller-coaster relationship I had with a boy who I cared for deeply which ended with his death back in 2012. If there ever was a mistake waiting to be made out there - it was me that was going to make it. Saying that I was lacking self-confidence regarding relationships at that stage of my life would be putting it mildly.

All I can say is I never once felt desensitized sexually when transitioning from "Butterfly Mania" to a monogamous relationship. Maybe it happens to some guys, but t didn't happen to me. If anything, I found that my sex life was improving...more time for creative foreplay... more spontaneity...longer and more adventurous interactions...knowing where those hidden buttons are...adding "intimacy" to the mix...more fulfilling sex overall. Results = Better Sex Life.

Next April will mark 7 years that we've been together...sex is a priority to both of us (we're obsessed)...constantly experimenting and exploring. Do we ever think about tossing in the hay with someone else? Of course. Do we? No. Why? It would fuck things up and we don't want to lose what we have.

mr giggles

March 20th, 2021, 14:36

StevieWonders

March 20th, 2021, 14:54

Dodger

March 20th, 2021, 20:35

cdnmatt

March 20th, 2021, 20:59

What appalls me are the Westerners who settle here, witter on about “Buddhism” and the superiority of Asian values yet persist with the purely Western practice of monogamy. If living in Thailand is so great, what’s wrong with having a mia noi?

Just because it happens all the time in Thailand doesn't means it's met with approval by the partner (wife, BF, whoever). There's a reason for curtain motels all over the place, instad of it being out in the open.

snotface

March 20th, 2021, 23:07

Just because it happens all the time in Thailand doesn't means it's met with approval by the partner (wife, BF, whoever). There's a reason for curtain motels all over the place, instad of it being out in the open.

Perhaps the same reason why Thailand leads the world in penis reattachment surgery. Don't read the link below if you're squeamish (so of course everyone will):

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2004/07/08/2003178134#:~:text=Thailand%20has%20become%20the%2 0world,has%20been%20forced%20to%20be.

latintopxxx

March 21st, 2021, 02:15

...and here i was led to believe that the locals existed in a happy cloud of Budda induced tantric wellness at peace with the universe with no worries....

Dodger

March 21st, 2021, 12:45

Two of the problems crippling many Thai families is alcoholism and infidelity. The farther you travel upcountry, the more apparent this becomes.

Unfortunately, especially for the children, many adult men drink alcoholically and cheat on their wives as regular as clockwork. This is just the way it is for a large percentage of families, especially in the more rural areas. It's like children raising children, with most of the household burden belonging to the mother and/or other family elders, where the fathers often end up deserting their families at some juncture as the pressure builds.

As most of us know, this is why many Thai boys are fatherless.

I cringe every time I hear about these guys getting their penises chopped off with a machete for cheating on their spouses. If anyone's confused about the importance of monogamy in a Thai relationship, just ask a str8 man who's received a fee sex change operation without ever asking for one.

StevieWonders

March 21st, 2021, 12:55

Two of the problems crippling many Thai families is alcoholism and infidelity. The farther you travel upcountry, the more apparent this becomes.Surely it’s on shameless public display in some places and the media?

Dodger

March 21st, 2021, 15:00

Surely it’s on shameless public display in some places and the media?

Almost every single night of the week on Thai TV, including graphic videos.

You need to get out more.

a447

March 21st, 2021, 15:06

Unfortunately, especially for the children, many adult men drink alcoholically and cheat on their wives as regular as clockwork. This is just the way it is for a large percentage of families, especially in the more rural areas. It's like children raising children, with most of the household burden belonging to the mother and/or other family elders, where the fathers often end up deserting their families at some juncture as the pressure builds.

You're spot on here, Dodger.

It's a tale I've heard many times over the years and sums up the situation of my Pattaya friend, Nom. His father was addicted to pain killers and Nom became the sole breadwinner at the age of 10, if memory serves me correctly.

Which begs the question - do some guys see certain farang as the father they never had?

Oliver2

March 21st, 2021, 15:39

It is undeniably true that young Asian men (not just Thai) are more likely to be attracted to older guys than young men in the West. The evidence is there in the saunas, both Asian and European. I put it down to the in-grained respect that young Asians have for older people but there are no doubt other reasons too.

arsenal

March 21st, 2021, 15:42

"Which begs the question - do some guys see certain farang as the father they never had?"

Or wanted.

Being serious it's quite possible a young Thai boy sees his well to do falang as an idealised father figure. In which case disappointment for both sides is guaranteed.

a447

March 21st, 2021, 15:50

In which case disappointment for both sides is guaranteed.

I don't know about "guaranteed". It could work out in certain circumstances but failure is certainly on the cards, given the age difference (I was thinking of a farang in his 50s) and the ever-present cultural differences.

StevieWonders

March 21st, 2021, 16:05

Almost every single night of the week on Thai TV, including graphic videos.
I would have called them hagiographic rather than merely graphic.

Dodger

March 21st, 2021, 16:33

......Which begs the question - do some guys see certain farang as the father they never had?

The answer to this just has to be YES.

With the types of age gaps we're talking about, coupled with some of the boys growing up without having a solid father figure in their lives, it only makes sense that this would come into play.

If a farang has never spent any time in a typical remote Thai village, it would be hard for him to even imagine the hardships involved, let alone draw any conclusions regarding a Thai boys true character.

Frankly, and I don't mean for this to sound like I'm some kind of expert on this, because I'm certainly not, but I don't see how a farang could communicate well enough with a Thai boy to really make a connection (or offer any fatherly advice), if he hadn't spent at least some time experiencing the type of environment he came from.

I've known many really great Thai boys who would give anything to hook up with a genuine person (young or old) who doesn't view them merely as a "sex object", and who is willing to give them the type of guidance and security they need to excel. This is the type of substance they're looking for in a true partner. Someone who really cares - and someone they can really trust.

Oliver2

March 21st, 2021, 16:49

That is true in my experience. "Papa sawng" is a standing joke between P and me. And it's not just a joke. It took me nine years of butterflying in Pattaya to learn that I needed more than sex. And, as Dodger says, a visit to his parents' home changed my understanding of the nature of our relationship.

StevieWonders

March 21st, 2021, 18:28

I don't know about "guaranteed". It could work out in certain circumstances but failure is certainly on the cards, given the age difference (I was thinking of a farang in his 50s) and the ever-present cultural differences.
Have you ever given Rupert Murdoch advice on relationships?

Dodger

March 22nd, 2021, 13:08

...... And it's not just a joke. It took me nine years of butterflying in Pattaya to learn that I needed more than sex. .

Likewise, my butterfly wings stayed firmly glued on my back for 15 years, but eventually, after having interactions with a thousand guys (and only remembering 5 of their names), I started coming to the same conclusion.

I had failed attempts before, understand the landscape, and had no delusions about the age, social, and cultural difference's, but decided to plow ahead anyway. If Tom Hanks could bond with a volley ball named Wilson (movie Cast Away), then I felt anything was possible.

I was married to a younger Thai male in another life who died tragically in 2012. I'll spare you the details. It wasn't until 2014 that Wilson came floating up on the shore...different chemistry...different universe...different shapes...different sizes...different languages...with the one-and-only common link between us being the fact that we were both water-logged and stranded on a shore...looking to bond with something or someone to add some meaning to our lives. We started bonding almost effortlessly...more and more as time passed...until any apprehensions we had regarding our differences just vanished, as if they were just delusions. Strange really!

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