Vaccination (for Thais) soon to begin

[StevieWonders]

Thai PBS is reporting that the first COVID-19 vaccinations using the AstraZeneca vaccine will be administered to “Thai people” within a week of the first 50,000 doses from Italy arriving this month: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/first-doses-of-astrazeneca-vaccine-to-be-administered-a-week-after-arrival-in-thailand/

[Sen Yai]

Why highlight for "Thai People" in parentheses?

How do you think the vaccination programme will be rolled out in Thailand? Who will be first in the queue?

Over 65s? Front line medical staff and key workers? Everyone in order of province, starting with Amnat Charoen and Ang Thong?

You wouldn't surely be attempting to imply that long term tourists and resident sexpats in Pattaya might be somehow discriminated when the priorty lists are drawn?

Before answering that, perhaps consider how many Russian Oligarchs, Syrian refugees or Brazilian rent boys currently living in London number amongst the 9 million already vacinated by the NHS in the UK. Or, when Australia final get it's act together (current predeiction March?) whether retiree expatriates in Melbourne will enjoy the same treatment as "proper Ozzies"?

[StevieWonders]

Why highlight for "Thai People" in parentheses?Simply because if you look (not very) hard you’ll see there’s an entire other thread devoted to the Moaning Minnies of the expat community and vaccination. Or, that’s its original title. However Dodgems decided many many posts ago and Forum entropy continued that theme, to discuss how the Thais are absolute rubbish at quality control and will make a total clusterfuck of AstraZeneca vaccine manufacture as they do with everything else.

I’m also not sure why Melbourne has been singled out of all Australian cities but the latest announcements state that vaccination will be free “for most visa classes” as well as citizens and permanent residents.

I do hope that helps.

[StevieWonders]

I found it interesting yesterday that post-sex with a couple of Thai lads (yes, a matinee) we were watching the news on TNN when on came an entire two minutes at least of Chinese medical propaganda about how “we” (Thais and Chinese) were all in this together. Presumably it’s part of the unrelenting pressure by the Chinese to get the Thai government to approve the Sinovac vaccine. Lots of still pics of packages covered with the Chinese flag with a musical background. The song was sung in English with English subtitles (karaoke style) by some toothsome youngish male Thai. The music itself was something saccharine - who can forget Telephone Bar’s obsession with Lionel Ritchie (was it?) in the late 80s/early 90s.

[gerefan2]

the AstraZeneca vaccine will be administered to “Thai people” within a week of the first 50,000]

I would have thought that if they wanted to reduce the ever increasing numbers (another 795 yesterday) they should obviously inoculate all the Burmese labourers first, especially those who work in the fish markets!

[Andaman!]

I found it interesting yesterday that post-sex with a couple of Thai lads (yes, a matinee)
Please tell us more. Always interested how these threesomes work or don’t work. Where did you find the guys? Did they know you or each other beforehand? What do they do? Do they fuck with each other or just with you? Was it a success? To be repeated? Would be great if you could share the detail of the encounter.

[latintopxxx]

andaman...there are multiple jerk off sites...no need to seek your jollies here...

[Blueskytoday]

Chinese vaccine??? DAMN...how could one believe anything that comes from china..?? I would not ....wait for the vaccines that science actually prove
works....just because the chinese SAY so,,does not make it SO..

[Moses]

DAMN...how could one believe anything that comes from china..?? I would not ....

You wrote it on the phone manufactured in China, you know? Or on the computer... correct... manufactured in China. Look around you: half of electronics will be from China...

you should immediately drop everything into window!

[StevieWonders]

You wrote it on the phone manufactured in China, you know? Or on the computer... correct... manufactured in China. Look around you: half of electronics will be from China...

you should immediately drop everything into window!Manufactured, yes. Apple is, however, moving a lot of its manufacture to India and Vietnam. More Western companies will move out of China as the perception of slave labour and the Uighurs gains ground. Design still remains a non-Chinese strength.

[cdnmatt]

You wrote it on the phone manufactured in China, you know? Or on the computer... correct... manufactured in China. Look around you: half of electronics will be from China...

you should immediately drop everything into window!


I know, maybe we should teach China how to make a vaccine properly, and they can start manufacturing those for us too.

[Moses]

Manufactured, yes. Apple is, however, moving a lot of its manufacture to India and Vietnam. More Western companies will move out of China as the perception of slave labour and the Uighurs gains ground. Design still remains a non-Chinese strength.

Yeah, tell it to Ilon Mask: most of Tesla are manufactured in China.

By the way: China constructs Hinkley Point С - nuclear reactor in Somerset, UK

[Moses]

I know, maybe we should teach China how to make a vaccine properly, and they can start manufacturing those for us too.

Canada? Teach? Well... maybe right after Canada will launch own space ship and land rover to moon... China did it, after USSR/Russia and USA... who will be next, 4th?

[StevieWonders]

I know, maybe we should teach China how to make a vaccine properly, and they can start manufacturing those for us too.Manufacture of vaccines is not the issue - testing them to meet the standards of the various FDAs around the world is.

[StevieWonders]

Canada? Teach? Well... maybe right after Canada will launch own space ship, or land rover to moon...It’s the same question as “rich” tourists visiting a Third World country for sex in the middle of a global pandemic - just because you can afford it doesn’t make it less foolhardy a choice

[Moses]

It’s the same question as “rich” tourists visiting a Third World country for sex in the middle of a global pandemic - just because you can afford it doesn’t make it less foolhardy a choice

For sure it isn't the same: US has a lot of "affords", but still buys rocket engines from Russia...

So, back to vaccines: they were tested... and cries "Chinese!!!" are just pure uncovered snobism...

[cdnmatt]

Canada? Teach? Well... maybe right after Canada will launch own space ship and land rover to moon...

https://www.asc-csa.gc.ca/eng/canadarm/default.asp

Oh, and we're part of the Artemis missions too.

[StevieWonders]

For sure it isn't the same: US has a lot of "affords", but still buys rocket engines from Russia...They probably get their Novichok there as well

[StevieWonders]

various FDAs around the world is.

https://www.asc-csa.gc.ca/eng/canadarm/default.asp

Oh, and we're part of the Artemis missions too.The Canadian space agency certifies vaccines?

[cdnmatt]

heh, that was just me having a blind moment. I quickly realized it, and fixed it.

[Moses]

Chinese vaccine is better than "no vaccine" or "vaccine after 3 years". Here on the forum were some users who rolled their eyes when I wrote "Sputnik" at summer.

Moscow exactly in 2 months after vaccination started (picture covers last 3 weeks):

[StevieWonders]

Here on the forum were some users who rolled their eyes when I wrote "Sputnik" at summer.

Moscow exactly in 2 months after vaccination started (picture covers last 3 weeks):
I for one have never been in any doubt that a country that can produce Novichok lacked the expertise to develop a vaccine for a coronavirus

[Moses]

I for one have never been in any doubt that a country that can produce Novichok lacked the expertise to develop a vaccine for a coronavirus

Hm... Czech Rep manufactured Novichok, but still not able to manufacture vaccine, so still exists exclusion from the row US, UK, Germany, France (what heard about Sanofi? Is France still in the row?), Russia...

Back to vaccine. "Made in China" does not warrants bad quality as we see around us in our homes. And "Made in US" does now warrants quality at all as it shows today court where been revealed what Merc and US regulators knew about suicidal behavior of users of Merc's Propecia since 2011 and did nothing for to warn consumers or for to stop distribution of Propecia.

[StevieWonders]

Hm... Czech Rep manufactured Novichok, but still not able to manufacture vaccine, so still exists exclusion from the row US, UK, Germany, France (what heard about Sanofi? Is France still in the row?), Russia...

Back to vaccine. "Made in China" does not warrants bad quality as we see around us in our homes. And "Made in US" does now warrants quality at all as it shows today court where been revealed what Merc and US regulators knew about suicidal behavior of users of Merc's Propecia since 2011 and did nothing for to warn consumers or for to stop distribution of Propecia.Manufacture does not mean design or create

[StevieWonders]

Yeah, tell it to Ilon Mask: most of Tesla are manufactured in China.We all know Elon Musk is a nut job

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/china/apple-tesla-and-amazon-supplier-accused-of-using-forced-uighur-labour-in-china-report.html

[cdnmatt]

Yeah, tell it to Ilon Mask: most of Tesla are manufactured in China.

I don't understand why you keep bringing this up. Yes, we're all aware that China manufactures most of our shit. They make great and cheap worker bees.

Kind of same as how some Mexican probably picked this orange I'm currently enjoying. Or some kid in Bangladesh probably sewed my jeans together.

Not sure why you think this is something to constantly brag about...

[Andaman!]

andaman...there are multiple jerk off sites...no need to seek your jollies here... You misunderstand the request Latin - you can stick to your “jerk off” “jollies” on www.mylittlepony.com. I was hoping Khun Wonders could educate us on the science or perhaps art of arranging a threesome in Thailand and it seems Gerefan2 and Goji are also interested in some tutelage in this regard

[arsenal]

Some 80 Chinese have been arrested for 'manufacturing' and selling fake vaccines to other countries. Now there is a case of fool...money...parted.

[cdnmatt]

Here on the forum were some users who rolled their eyes when I wrote "Sputnik" at summer.

Moscow exactly in 2 months after vaccination started (picture covers last 3 weeks):


Russia is so awesome! Too bad Penkovsky completely sold Russia out during the cold war, eh? Really changed how that whole thing turned out.

[Moses]

Russia is so awesome! Too bad Penkovsky completely sold Russia out during the cold war, eh? Really changed how that whole thing turned out.

Penkovsky sold USSR. Country what doesn't exists anymore...

[StevieWonders]

Or, when Australia final get it's act together (current predeiction March?) whether retiree expatriates in Melbourne will enjoy the same treatment as "proper Ozzies"?Here you are, Sen Yai, since you asked - everyone in Australia will be vaccinated for free - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-04/australia-vaccine-rollout-questions-pfizer/13121686

[Sen Yai]

Here you are, Sen Yai, since you asked - everyone in Australia will be vaccinated for free - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-04/australia-vaccine-rollout-questions-pfizer/13121686
Excllent! Thank you for providing this news first hand.

Everybody who is on Australian soil will get the vaccine.
That includes free vaccines for all visa holders, refugees, asylum seekers, temporary protection visa holders and anyone on a bridging visa.
And those who have had their visas cancelled but are still in the country will get one as well.
So basically, the Aussies will jab every bastard with a pulse. No discrimination!

But....

Australia's plan to vaccinate the entire population by October...
...is not such good news. With the expectation that it will take a few months for the effects of vaccination to have an impact on the spread of the virus in the community, it seems unlikely that Australia will open it's boarders before then end of this year.

[StevieWonders]

... it seems unlikely that Australia will open it's boarders before then end of this year.”it’s boarders” - I assume you mean “its borders” as “it is boarders” makes no sense even to those living in boarding houses.

[Nirish guy]

Apparently it makes perfect sense to some people living in Northern Ireland protesting the Brexit deal as this appeared on one of our walls this week - and for clarity NO, it wasn't ME what writ it ! :-)

10717

[Sen Yai]

”it’s boarders” - I assume you mean “its borders” as “it is boarders” makes no sense even to those living in boarding houses.
Thank you for the correction. I knew there was something wrong with that when I posted, but couldn't think what it was. My first senior moment perhaps....

But, whilst the opening of Australia's borders is of no direct concern to me (or to you since you live in the Silom area, of course....) it is bad news for the whole APAC region. The longer it takes for the major regional players, including Singpore, Hong Kong, and Japan to finally stamp out the virus, the longer it will be before any borders can be opened even to places like Taiwan and Vietnam, who have manged to maintain very low rates of infection thoughout.

The travel bubble between Singapore and Hong Kong planned in Decmber '20 was cancelled on the eve of commencement due to the '4th wave' outbreak in HK. Since then, both countries have had comparatively low daily infection rates (~50/day) but have not manged to get back to zero.

I hope that Thailand manages to control the current wave being experineced and that travel between neighbouring countries might be possible before vaccination programmes in those countries are compete. That would be far in the future and not really necessary to allow tourists in, as long as those entering the country are sure not to be bringing the infection with them. The sooner the wealthier nations can certify themselves as covid-free the sooner regional travel can re-commence. The current regional basket cases of Malaysia and Indonesia (Jakarta) will remain isolated for much longer.

[StevieWonders]

A Kiwi medical friend maintains that there’ll be several types of “bubble” once vaccination is widespread

No quarantine - currently the case from NZ to Australia but not in the other direction
Self-quarantine - those who can prove their vaccination status will be allowed to travel but will have to commit to a period of self-quarantine on arrival
Full quarantine - no change

He’s hoping for (1) on entry to Thailand and (2) on return to NZ - almost the current Australia/NZ solution and where he thinks it’s likely to be tried first

[goji]

For comparison purposes, here is an extract from the front page of the BKK post.

[cdnmatt]

Just announced Thailand is supposed to begin getting 5,000,000 vaccine doses every month starting June.

[StevieWonders]

Just announced Thailand is supposed to begin getting 5,000,000 vaccine doses every month starting June.Population = 60+ million
Number of doses per person = 2
Thailand’s ability to manage the vaccination of the entire population = ???
End date = 2024?

[cdnmatt]

Population = 60+ million
Number of doses per person = 2
Thailand’s ability to manage the vaccination of the entire population = ???
End date = 2024?


That means they're probably about two years ahead of Canada. Kudos to them.

[Sen Yai]

Thailand doesn't really need to vaccinate every rice farmer in Nakorn Nowhere before opening up to tourism - which is the primary interest for members of this forum.

Once maybe 20 million or so of the population in the main urban, industrial and tourist areas have had the jab, then the spread of covid should be under control, as long as no new infections are brought in by visitors.

The vast majority of cases in Hong Kong and Singapore for the past 4 months or so have been imported (as opposed to local transmission) despite some of the tightest border controls in the world. So, once potential travellers from all coutries have been vaccinated and certified covid-free, borders might be opened for business and tourism, hopefully without stringent quarantine requirements.

[StevieWonders]

Thailand doesn't really need to vaccinate every rice farmer in Nakorn Nowhere before opening up to tourism - which is the primary interest for members of this forum.I thought the primary interest for members of this forum was a constant stream of fresh recruits from Nakhon Nowhere to populate the bars and satisfy our lusts. How would you propose ensuring their vaccination?

[Jellybean]

Some posts in this thread have been moved to the Everything Else forum and given the title, Canada and its vaccination programme.

A link to the new topic can be found below:
https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?21877-Canada-and-its-vaccination-programme

[Sen Yai]

I thought the primary interest for members of this forum was a constant stream of fresh recruits from Nakhon Nowhere to populate the bars and satisfy our lusts. How would you propose ensuring their vaccination?

Well, I would propose each recruit be given an injection in the buttocks as soon as possible upon reporting for duty.

Any volunteers to assist with the programme?

[StevieWonders]

Well, I would propose each recruit be given an injection in the buttocks as soon as possible upon reporting for duty. Any volunteers to assist with the programme?How about paying for their keep while they remain potential contagious - 2 to 3 weeks?

[StevieWonders]

Not quite Thailand-specific. A friend has forwarded me a story about an Australian plan to have secure digital vaccination certificates. I’ve said previously that “vaccination passports” as they’re popularly known will be on your phone. If you’re “digitally challenged”, bad luck

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-07/covid-19-vaccine-certificates-to-be-on-australians-smartphones/13130350

[cdnmatt]

That'll be hacked within 48 hours with entries for sale on the darknet.

[StevieWonders]

That'll be hacked within 48 hours with entries for sale on the darknet.Please provide a detailed step-by-step process starting with “Citizen has secure App installed on his iPhone and seeks a fake certificate that he can display inside the App”

[cdnmatt]

Please provide a detailed step-by-step process starting with “Citizen has secure App installed on his iPhone and seeks a fake certificate that he can display inside the App”

Depends, who are we fooling here? A Thai immigration officer, or an Australian government official?

[StevieWonders]

Depends, who are we fooling here? A Thai immigration officer, or an Australian government official?I’d have thought the clue is in the word “citizen”; only an Australian citizen will have the App

[cdnmatt]

I’d have thought the clue is in the word “citizen”; only an Australian citizen will have the App

Having a slow day, are we? Let me try to rephrase...

Who is the Australian citizen showing the certificate to to prove vaccination? A Thai immigration officer, or an Australian government official?

[StevieWonders]

Having a slow day, are we? Let me try to rephrase...

Who is the Australian citizen showing the certificate to to prove vaccination? A Thai immigration officer, or an Australian government official?Whoever is authorised to demand to see it - assume everyone

[arsenal]

Imagine the fucking queue at immigration as multifarious nationalities fuck around with their phones trying to get the app running to show the official.

At swampy it already takes three times as long for some of our swarthier brethren to be allowed through than it does with my UK passport.

[cdnmatt]

Whoever is authorised to demand to see it - assume everyone

I don't know, little difficult to hack a non-existent app. Would need the app first.

Could become as simple as modifying the iptables on your phone and loopback to your own device or route to different server for necessary requests when your certificate is being retrievved. That would be so simple it's stupid, but who knows... need the app first.

[StevieWonders]

Imagine the fucking queue at immigration as multifarious nationalities fuck around with their phones trying to get the app running to show the official.

At swampy it already takes three times as long for some of our swarthier brethren to be allowed through than it does with my UK passport.A rather naive view - passengers will have shown it in order to check in and will therefore be pre-cleared on arrival. It’s like checking in for a country which demands visas prior to entry - no visa, no check-in. Both the USA currently and the EU (later this year) have permission-to-fly electronic tags held against passport numbers.

[StevieWonders]

I don't know, little difficult to hack a non-existent app. Would need the app first.

Could become as simple as modifying the iptables on your phone and loopback to your own device or route to different server for necessary requests when your certificate is being retrievved. That would be so simple it's stupid, but who knows... need the app first.I specifically mentioned an iPhone as I realise that an Android toy would be a candidate for hacking. But basically you’re off in Fantasy Island. What you’re suggesting in no way resembles something any Tom, Dick or Harry could pick up on the Dark Web for a fee small enough to bother given that the vaccination will be free

[cdnmatt]

I specifically mentioned an iPhone as I realise that an Android toy would be a candidate for hacking. But basically you’re off in Fantasy Island. What you’re suggesting in no way resembles something any Tom, Dick or Harry could pick up on the Dark Web for a fee small enough to bother given that the vaccination will be free

Your going to end up with this app and countries allowing visitors again, but only if they're vaccinated. For a good while, you're going to have a whole lot of people who want to travel, and can either wait ~6 months to get vaccinated, or drop $300 on the darket and be on the next flight.

Guess what's going to happen?

[StevieWonders]

Guess what's going to happen?
They’re going to be beating a path to your front door to take advantage of your inestimable IT skills

[arsenal]

"A rather naive view - passengers will have shown it in order to check in and will therefore be pre-cleared on arrival. It’s like checking in for a country which demands visas prior to entry - no visa, no check-in. Both the USA currently and the EU (later this year) have permission-to-fly electronic tags held against passport numbers."

How simple minded. You still go through immigration and show your passport even with a visa.

[StevieWonders]

You still go through immigration and show your passport even with a visa.Indeed - and that’s all you show. You’re saying there’ll be faffing about with quarantine certificates and I’m say there won’t.

[Moses]

Just published on Reuters: UK will not issue vaccination passports. "Ask your doctor for proof, if you need it for travels"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-passport/britain-will-not-introduce-covid-19-vaccine-passports-idUSKBN2A7097

[StevieWonders]

Now Matt can really get to work

[arsenal]

"Indeed - and that’s all you show. You’re saying there’ll be faffing about with quarantine certificates and I’m say there won’t."

And I'm sayING that I hope you're right. But cleared at check-in still involves considerable checking upon arrival.

I have long been an advocate of long haul flights having an immigration officer on board and issuing the stamp during the flight so off the plane and away you go.

[bkkguy]

A friend has forwarded me a story about an Australian plan to have secure digital vaccination certificates. I’ve said previously that “vaccination passports” as they’re popularly known will be on your phone. If you’re “digitally challenged”, bad luck

did you read the article? "or a paper version can be printed out"

and at this stage this is just a twinkle in Scotty's eye - the is no final spec, no design, and no code written, but given the federal and various state governments' track record with both online medical history and check-in/check-out and contract tracing apps I am sure this will be an outstanding success and downloaded by everyone in the country as soon as it is released


Please provide a detailed step-by-step process starting with “Citizen has secure App installed on his iPhone and seeks a fake certificate that he can display inside the App”

I would have thought the obvious path for nefarious actors would be to hack into the government database system and be able to add immunisation records to the database and sell that service to the citizen with his secure app on his iPhone. I am neither a "white hat" or "black hat" hacker but if you read anything about recent hacking of government and business systems over the past year this does not seem to be an impossible task, and neither is keeping this ability hidden for significant periods of time


Who is the Australian citizen showing the certificate to to prove vaccination? A Thai immigration officer, or an Australian government official?

I have always said that the best thing about "standards" is that there are so many of them - and this twinkle in Scotty's eye app is just one of the many country-specific and international/industry systems under consideration and/or development, so the crucial factor when facing an official is which of the many competing systems the relevant government has decided to accept, and in the case of Thailand given the Immigration Bureau's history of app development and working with foreign documents and systems then I am sure this will be a no-brainer!


I have long been an advocate of long haul flights having an immigration officer on board and issuing the stamp during the flight so off the plane and away you go.

and if/when Thai Airways ever gets back into the air I am sure that could just add the stamps to the selection in the duty-free catalog

[StevieWonders]

A fascinating post bkkguy. Perhaps you could remind us all of the last time a government database was reported as hacked and entirely new records inserted.

[Moggy]

Britain will not introduce COVID-19 vaccine passports, but people will be able to seek proof from their doctor if needed for travel to other countries, vaccine deployment minister Nadhim Zahawi said on Sunday.

[Moses]

Looks like UK will do yearly vaccination. Maybe other countries will do it as well.


“We see very much probably an annual or a booster in the autumn and then an annual (vaccination), in the way we do with flu vaccinations where you look at what variant of virus is spreading around the world,” Nadhim Zahawi told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-vaccine-bo/uk-says-covid-19-booster-and-annual-vaccinations-very-probable-idUSKBN2A70A5

[StevieWonders]

It’s reported that South Africa (origin of the “South African variant”) has suspended use of the AstraZeneca vaccine which seems less effective against that variant. AZ is developing a modified vaccine. AZ is also the vaccine approved by Thailand.

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/07/south-africa-halts-rollout-of-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-after-shot-falters-against-variant/

[cdnmatt]

I tell ya, once I get up there I'm giving mother nature a piece of my mind for all this pandemic shit.

Oh wait... she has a pretty good rebuttal lined up.

[goji]

I have long been an advocate of long haul flights having an immigration officer on board and issuing the stamp during the flight so off the plane and away you go.
They could just process the immigration efficiently. I've managed to get through immigration on arrival in places like Malaysia within about 30 seconds, so it is possible.
To get the full benefit, whoever is in charge of baggage handling also needs some coaching. I normally have to wait for bags after clearing Thai immigration.
In December the baggage handling was quick.....

[gerefan2]

I have long been an advocate of long haul flights having an immigration officer on board and issuing the stamp during the flight so off the plane and away you go.

How long is a flight to Thailand? 10.30 hours on average. Remove 30 minutes at each end for being strapped in and another hour for toilet/meals/ breaks etc., gives the man about 8.30 to deal with 400 passports.

That’s nearly 1 per minute.

Forgetting about finger prints, pictures, queries etc...

Who is going to pay for the seat?

I’ve got news for you!!

Now if you positioned a Thai Immigration Officer at London...

[wingnut]

Before the pandemic on my rare visits to my cousin in Noo Yark I went on Aer Lingus via Ireland. Why? Because American Immigration is done at Shannon Airport before you get on the plane. But I don't see that happening for poor countries like Thailand.

I agree with Stevie. The only thing passport officers will be checking is passports. Everything else will be done before you get on the plane. Did the passport officers in Bangkok check your 72-hour COVID pre-boarding test results again gerefan2?

[cdnmatt]

Not to mention there's a few legalities involved here. Would Thai immigration officers have the power to arrest UK citizens on UK soil? If so, are they tend allowed to extradite them to Thailand? Will the Thai immigration officers working in London be allowed to carry firearms, conduct interrogations in secondary, et al? Do they have to abide by all UK laws, or are they fllowed to follow purely Thai law?

The US has immigration points in other countries because, well... they have the power to apply the necessary pressure. Thailand doesn't.

There's constantly arguments in Ottawa about whether or not we should continue allowing US immigration screening in Canada, what power and authority US immigration officers have on Canadian soil, etc.

[StevieWonders]

at this stage this is just a twinkle in Scotty's eye - the is no final spec, no design, and no code written
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/covid-19-vaccine-certificates-to-be-available-within-days-of-immunisation-20210208-p570ki.html

[StevieWonders]

Fearful as always of Matt’s propensity to derail a discussion about Thailand, my question is: Could you provide a link, Matt, to a recent discussion within Canada of these issues? The only substantial piece I can find is a lawyer of Iranian descent more than 12 months ago about a law already agreed. After 12 months of operation what are the current views?

[gerefan2]

Did the passport officers in Bangkok check your 72-hour COVID pre-boarding test results again gerefan2?

It was certainly checked at London, Zurich and when I arrived at the hotel. I cannot remember specifically whether it was checked at Bangkok but I’m sure it would have been as there was a succession of checks looking at Visas, Insurance, Certificates of Entry, Passports, and goodness knows what else!

[StevieWonders]

It was certainly checked at London, Zurich and when I arrived at the hotel. I cannot remember specifically whether it was checked at Bangkok but I’m sure it would have been as there was a succession of checks looking at Visas, Insurance, Certificates of Entry, Passports, and goodness knows what else!I guess it fills in the day

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law

[cdnmatt]

Sounds like decent chance Thailand won't care about any such vaccine passports and require 14 day quarantine anyway.

Thai Health Officials Skeptical About Vaccine Passports.

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/thai-health-officials-skeptical-about-vaccine-passports/

[Armando]

I have long been an advocate of long haul flights having an immigration officer on board and issuing the stamp during the flight so off the plane and away you go.
If you are thinking only of Thailand, you have to include several airlines which (used to) fly non-stop. What about the mass of connecting flights?

I suppose since it can be done on trains, there is no reason why it should not work on planes. The non-stop trains between Helsinki and St. Petersburg have passport and visa control, customs checks and money exchange on board. It is absolutely painless. You just walk on and off at each end.

But if putting Immigration officers on planes is too complex, why not do what the US does at Canadian airports? You go through US immigration checks before boarding the plane. British Airways used to do this with its Concorde flights. Immigration was processed in the Concorde lounge at Heathrow and BA guaranteed it would take no more than 15 minutes between leaving the plane and getting your bag at JFK. It even did something similar on its all biz class flight from London City Airport to JFK. Only that flight had a stop in Shannon where the immigration and customs processes were completed.

But the problem with this for all long haul flights is that each country would have to locate multiple Immigration officers all around the world. Is there an answer to this? Probably not. So we'll be stuck with Immigration queues

[bkkguy]

the article you have linked to is of no more use than the original one

I suppose it depends on your confidence in promised MyGov or other system rollouts, even to manage this minor incremental change to an existing system will be a challenge and there is still so much spec, design and code to be done to build a workable system around this - this database is just the first baby step - as your article points out


ready access to vaccination certificates will be important for access to at-risk facilities including hospitals and aged care homes or for crossing state borders. Later, vaccine certificates will be an important part of international travel.

even if some people do manage to get their certificate online "within days of receiving your vaccination" "after the end of this month" it will be interesting to see what, if anything, you can do with it!

[StevieWonders]

the article you have linked to is of no more use than the original one

I suppose it depends on your confidence in promised MyGov or other system rollouts, even to manage this minor incremental change to an existing system will be a challenge and there is still so much spec, design and code to be done to build a workable system around this - this database is just the first baby step - as your article points out
The further information it provided was a rebuttal of your quoted comment that it was merely a twinkle in someone’s eye if as the article states, it’s to be released in the next 10 days. Have you come up with that list yet of government web sites that have been hacked and entirely new records have been successfully inserted as your original reply claimed happened?

[StevieWonders]

Just published on Reuters: UK will not issue vaccination passports. "Ask your doctor for proof, if you need it for travels"
Evidently Boris can read public opinion better than some of his Ministers. This is from The Times today: “ Vaccinated Britons could use an app to confirm they are safe to holiday abroad once coronavirus infections have fallen to a low number in the UK, Boris Johnson has said.

Asked at a Downing Street press conference last night whether the government was in talks with travel companies about setting up a vaccine passport scheme, the prime minister said that once the coronavirus situation was in a “different world” then “all kinds of apps” might be used.”

[Zebedee]

I hope this bad news does not affect the vaccine rollout.


"A Thai gem trader has been found to be infected with the South African strain of COVID-19, the first such case in Thailand, said Dr. Opas Karnkawinpong, director-general of the Disease Control Department, on Sunday."

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/thailand-records-its-first-case-of-south-african-strain-of-covid-19/

[StevieWonders]

I hope this bad news does not affect the vaccine rollout.

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/thailand-records-its-first-case-of-south-african-strain-of-covid-19/Agreed but variants are inevitable with viruses and some of the current manufacturers are reported as working on developing booster jabs to cover later variants. It’s rather like the annual ‘flu jab which includes variants assumed to be most likely - and why 2018 (was it?) was a bad year for the flu because the modelling got it wrong. Variants will mean that governments including Thailand’s will need to consider how to act once they open their borders and new variants occur. This going to be neither simple nor easy (unlike some of our members).

[cdnmatt]

The further information it provided was a rebuttal of your quoted comment that it was merely a twinkle in someone’s eye if as the article states, it’s to be released in the next 10 days. Have you come up with that list yet of government web sites that have been hacked and entirely new records have been successfully inserted as your original reply claimed happened?

Does this count?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/14/politics/us-agencies-hack-solar-wind-russia/index.html

[StevieWonders]

Does this count?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/14/politics/us-agencies-hack-solar-wind-russia/index.html
Nice try but no cigar. The criteria is “hacked and entirely new records have been successfully inserted”

[Zebedee]

"Speaking" of vaccinations, I think the whole board needs a shot in the arm or a shot to the head, we are succumbing to fatigue, due to lack of current boy stories ,and feedback from the Pattaya hustle and bustle of old. This is not a criticism of the board or the regular ( professional ) posters,they are doing their best...it's just that there is no material. Same for many other forums, Thai Visa, Gaybuttonthai, Gaythailand.

SAD.

[cdnmatt]

Start a brothel, and setup some live video feeds. Problem solved.

[StevieWonders]

Australia, the UK and Greece have all flagged “vaccination passports” in the past 24 hours as “under discussion”. Here’s hoping

[cdnmatt]

Looks like expats and migrant workers will get vaccinated in Thailand:

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1206637-expats-in-thailand-to-be-given-covid-19-vaccine-ccsa%C2%A0/?utm_source=newsletter-20210219-0539&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

[StevieWonders]

Looks like expats and migrant workers will get vaccinated in Thailand:

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1206637-expats-in-thailand-to-be-given-covid-19-vaccine-ccsa%C2%A0/?utm_source=newsletter-20210219-0539&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsAccording to the Bangkok Post migrant workers at least are not entitled to a free vaccination - their employers are expected to pay for them

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2070455/covid-vaccinations-for-everyone-in-thailand

[StevieWonders]

In a move that cdnmatt and bkkguy assert will be a forgers' and hackers' nirvana, Air New Zealand will be trialing a "vaccination passport" in April. It seems that neither poster has yet been able to identify a single hacked government database where entirely new records have successfully been inserted but I'm a patient man (a record of a vaccination event where none had occurred is precisely the sort of hack that would be needed) and happy to keep reminding them.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124316743/air-nz-to-trial-digital-health-passport-for-safer-travel-during-covid19

[bkkguy]

In a move that cdnmatt and bkkguy assert will be a forgers' and hackers' nirvana, Air New Zealand will be trialing a "vaccination passport" in April. It seems that neither poster has yet been able to identify a single hacked government database where entirely new records have successfully been inserted

give it a rest Stevie - you wanted to know what to hack to allow someone with an app on their iPhone to get a fake certificate and I posited hacking the vaccination database as a possibly better alternative than hacking the phone app directly - as I said at the time I am neither a "white hat" or "black hat" hacker but, as then, I still do not see this as beyond the realms of possibility based on what I had read, but I don't think that commits me to a lifetime of investigation of every large-scale hack just to satisfy your desire for proof that this has actually been done when I never claimed I had that proof

and Air New Zealand, and every other airline and its dog, and every air travel organisation and its dog and every government and its dog, and indeed every dog and its dog can develop and /or deploy a "vaccination passport" but the problem, as I also said in that original post, is that the "passport" you actually require is the one accepted by the airline you want to fly on and the country you want to fly to, and that may or may not be compatible with the vaccination "passport" or "certificate" issued in your home country - or perhaps you don't read very much on this topic and assume that all these passports and certificates are in some way compatible?

more importantly, realistically what decisions do you think a government, business, etc, can make based on being presented with a "vaccination passport" based on our limited, but yes expanding rapidly, knowledge of what vaccination really means for control of the virus and its consequences, eg how easily does the Thai government decide to change quarantine requirements, pre-/post-entry testing requirements, etc given a vaccination passport for a specific vaccine and time period of dose administration, the various virus strains commonly found in the country of origin and the types and numbers of vaccinations already done in the Thai population, or again are you not widely read and see "vaccination passports" as a simple and universal panacea?

[StevieWonders]

Is it your white hat or your black hat you’ve been talking through? Asking for evidence is a rhetorical question - such a hack of a Western government database has never reported, as any IT security literate person knows

[cdnmatt]

Fine, go Google Stuxnet. There's your proof records can be inserted onto a host computer.

[StevieWonders]

Matt’s original suggestion was at least semi-plausible - hack the local copy on the individual phone. As security on Android phones is rubbish it might work, hence my follow-up question “what about the iPhone?”

As for Stuxnet let’s be clear - it was a virus intended to modify the behaviour of existing records and devices - it did not create entirely new, additional records, which is the basic requirement here.

[wingnut]

You guys have gotta be kidding. How many government health systems are there? No programmer is going to spend his time trying to hack them. Too little payback for the effort. Much easier to scam people by offering a way to jump the vaccination queue as is happening here.

[cdnmatt]

Matt’s original suggestion was at least semi-plausible - hack the local copy on the individual phone. As security on Android phones is rubbish it might work, hence my follow-up question “what about the iPhone?”

I've never played with iSO so could be wrong, but it's just Apple's own flavor of linux, so I'm sure it works the same basic way. Could be as easy as just adding a single line to the /etc/hosts file on either, Android or iOS.

No code needs to be modified, no rows need to be inserted, and the app wold continue to work exactly as is. Flash it to a Thai immigration officer, they would have no way in telling it's fraudulent unless they actually picked up the phone and called the government of origin, which they're not going to do 99.8% of the time.

[QUOTE=StevieWonders;275044]As for Stuxnet let’s be clear - it was a virus intended to modify the behaviour of existing records and devices - it did not create entirely new, additional records, which is the basic requirement here.

What? Of course it inserted infromation into the host's computer. Same thing.

[StevieWonders]

What? Of course it inserted infromation into the host's computer. Same thing.Stuxnet triggered a process. Processes generally do not necessarily insert new database records; they will generally create an audit trail. Stuxnet triggered processes that misled the operators to adjust the machine controls which had the effect of destroying the enrichment machinery. It’s akin to carrying out a payment run in an Accounts Payable system. That’s a process that alters the status of an existing record from unpaid to paid. It doesn’t create a new record. However the audit process records the change that was made. As you claim IT literacy you’ll understand the acronym CRUD. I’m discussing CRUD activities, you’re discussing CRUD processing audits.

Inserting a unique virus is not the same as creating a record that is in every sense identical to the thousands of other records in a database except that it records something that doesn’t exist or never happened.

[StevieWonders]

more importantly, realistically what decisions do you think a government, business, etc, can make based on being presented with a "vaccination passport" based on our limited, but yes expanding rapidly, knowledge of what vaccination really means for control of the virus and its consequences, eg how easily does the Thai government decide to change quarantine requirements, pre-/post-entry testing requirements, etc given a vaccination passport for a specific vaccine and time period of dose administration, the various virus strains commonly found in the country of origin and the types and numbers of vaccinations already done in the Thai population, or again are you not widely read and see "vaccination passports" as a simple and universal panacea? I suspect Occam's Razor would apply, wouldn't you? As for how Thai Immigration would handle it, my views are set out already on p.6 of this thread. In the meanwhile here's a report of what Prayuth is reported as saying yesterday

Thailand may scrap mandatory quarantine for foreign visitors vaccinated against Covid-19 as it may help the nation revive its tourism industry, according to Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-Ocha.

Foreigners visiting Thailand may be allowed to skip the two-week isolation if they furnish vaccination certificates but authorities will continue to track them, Prayuth said after a cabinet meeting in Bangkok Tuesday. The government will carefully consider all aspects of such a move before implementing them, the prime minister said.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/thailand-mulls-waiving-quarantine-rule-for-vaccinated-tourists-1.1567286