Indian employees

[goji]

The Indians produce IT experts far superior to the UK in quality and number.

IT must be some kind of exception within India.
I've had extensive experience of Indian educated Indians in another professional field and found them to be invariably useless. For offshore & onshore work, the Vietnamese were vastly superior. Colleagues who have worked in India have similar views.

Then, at a lower level, we have Indian call centres, which have a well deserved reputation for not resolving any problems ever.

Finally, my ex employer moved the IT helpdesk from east Europe to India to save money. As you might expect, they were TOTALLY useless. Perhaps they just failed to find any of these IT experts ?

By the way, this is not a matter of race, it's more one of education and culture, since I note people from south Asia born and educated in the UK tend to be at least as good as anyone else.

[StevieWonders]

Making a generalisation about all Indians in India based on the calibre of call centre operatives is still racist. The issue is Indian entrepreneurs and senior managers. Look up “Indian billionaires” in Wikipedia - few are in IT (or call centres).

[dinagam]

Call centres is chicken feed IT.
What is astounding issues out of the numerous Indian Institutes of Technology and with further training and support they get in the USA and other tier one institutions, their expertise is clearly sought after by the technology, banking and insurance sectors. The top billionaires are all very strong in IT, from Bezos to Bill Gates and Jack Ma etc. Big data and big time IT.

[Brad the Impala]

Can't wait for the 500,000 Hongkongers to bring their expertise to the UK. If only there were fewer anglo saxon incompetents and more immigrants the country would run better.

Why are there so many brits on this forum?!

[StevieWonders]

As we seem to have lurched onto the question of Indian talent in this time of COVID-19, perhaps some might enjoy reading these recent articles about an Indian pharmaceutical manufacturer. Remember we're not talking about Indian-invented intellectual property, merely Indian business acumen

The (to me) delightfully named Adar Poonwalla:
https://www.politico.eu/article/adar-poonawalla-meet-the-indian-drug-mogul-whos-challenging-the-west-over-vaccines/
https://qz.com/india/1938686/serums-adar-poonawalla-bet-big-on-oxfords-covid-19-vaccine/

[goji]

Making a generalisation about all Indians in India based on the calibre of call centre operatives is still racist.

Anyone who reads my post completely and with honest intentions will see that I've also referred to extensive experience of Indians working in another profession.
I've also taken care to state my experiences were with Indian educated Indians and pointed out that when the same race go through the UK education system, they're at least at the same level as the locals.

Only a professional troll intent on stirring up sh*t and driving good people away from the forum would conclude that's racism.
If we had some pruning of the membership list, the board would see more content from members with positive intent. When it's dragged down in this way, why bother ?

[cdnmatt]

The Indians produce IT experts far superior to the UK in quality and number.

You quite obviously don't work in the IT field, or at least not the technology side of it, because my god is that statement ever incorrect.

I usually don't like to generalize, and maybe the Indians that managed to get VISAs for the UK / US are better quality, but the ones who live and work in India are absolutely horrendous, and produce nothing but garbage ridden, horrid spaghetti code. And it's not just me who thinks this, it's very well known throughout the entire industry. No self respecting software developer with some dignity works with these guys.

If and when I cross paths with a client who asks me to work on code that was initially written by someone who lives in works in India, I simply refuse the project. I tell them either I can rewrite the system from scratch, or they can find a new developer, because the aggravation caused by trying to fix all their fuck ups simply isn't worth it.

I've been at this software thing for 20 years, and every single time I've had to sift through code written by someone in India, it's been absolute garbage. No proper line spacing, indentation or comments, no standardization with different naming conventions and styles randomly being used all over the place, they screw up the most basic of concepts, generally so insecure an average 12 year old after watching a few videos on Youtube about hacking could rip through the system, completely disorganized, no thought put into future scalability or maintenance, and the list goes on.

I've even had clients come to me saying they really need a professional because their site is getting slow due to the huge growth and number of new registrations. I naturally ask how many users they have, and they reply with something like 15k. My god, in 2020 it honestly takes a concertated effort to screw up software so badly it begins slowing down after a measly 15k users.

[StevieWonders]

But are some of your best friends Indians, Matt?

[latintopxxx]

...have no idea what matty is saying...can we hire someone from the largest english speaking country...say India...to translate...

[cdnmatt]

...have no idea what matty is saying...

Well, that's no surprise. You're not intelligent enough to understand, now please let the adults talk.

[StevieWonders]

Well, that's no surprise. You're not intelligent enough to understand, now please let the adults talk.Could you provide some context Matt as to the sample size of “Indian IT experiences”? You’ve had, say, 100 different customers complaining to you of their experience of onshore Indian IT and all 100 were equally condemnatory? Is it 100? More? Less?

[a447]

StevieWonders posted a link in this thread to the satirical twitter account of a comedian called Andrew Doyle, who posts under the pseudonym Titania McGrath.

This is off-topic, but Titiana's politically incorrect posts are quite funny so I have moved it to StevieWonder's Xmas Reading thread in the Everything Else Forum.

https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?21730-Xmas-reading

a447
Moderator

P.S. The link works. I just checked it!!

[Brad the Impala]

The post was moved because it was "off-topic"?! That's just the sort of moderation this forum doesn't need, moving one off posts for that reason from a thread where it had a context to one where it is inapposite.

if you had decided that Titania's posts were not "quite funny", in your humble opinion, would your moderation have been different, as your comments imply?

[Smiles]

" ... That's just the sort of moderation this forum doesn't need ..."
Agreed. In a toilet a good movement is of course necessary. A movement of a post is just plain petty. More often than not the dreaded post is in the topic in answer to folks who are in the topic itself already, and after a few topic posts-of-naughtiness has disappeared down the page, harmingly, sometimes charmingly.

I'm quite understanding that there is a large cabal of rapid 'Movement Watchers' (is 'Q' here?) and good for them I guess.
As for me, I'm off to the nearest shitter as of course this movement will be, er, moving.

[StevieWonders]

Ah yes, Smiles, “naughtiness”. I’m reminded of James 1:21 “Therefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls”. The”engrafted word” is a reference to the decisions of the Moderators which, as I understand it, cannot be discussed by humble mortals such as ourselves.

[Nirish guy]

as I understand it, cannot be discussed by humble mortals such as ourselves.


Luke 6:37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned.

This is the word of the lord. There will be a small collection at the conclusion of the meeting and all offerings will be going to the Help the Hookers of Asia fund. Thank you, good night Brethren and dont forget to leave your bibles at the door on the way out - as some bastard stole three of them last week apparently ! ! :)

[goji]

The post was moved because it was "off-topic"?! That's just the sort of moderation this forum doesn't need, moving one off posts for that reason from a thread where it had a context to one where it is inapposite.

It's both common and correct to move off topic posts to a different thread. Anyone interested can go to the new thread. The rest of us can ignore it.

The reference was to a twitter account from some guy who has a fake ID, where he posts as some young lady.
That has no relevance at all to this thread, other than perhaps showing where certain people get their ideas from.

[StevieWonders]

It's ... common ...Indeed.

[StevieWonders]

I see Matt is avoiding specifying exactly how many of his customers have had a direct experience of Indian IT so “vanishingly small” is likely to be close to the actual number. And then there’s the “who are Matt’s customers” question. They’re certainly not people who spend money for high-end IT service companies. Taking that line leads inexorably to the conclusion that Matt’s “bottom feeder” customers complained when they found the bottom of the Indian IT barrel was further down than they expected. That says little to nothing of the general calibre of onshore Indian IT.

[cdnmatt]

No, it's simply because all you ever do is cut me down with childish remarks. Why would I ever want to talk to you, much less take anything you say seriously or with any grain of respect?

I really don't care if you believe me or not. Feel free to put together a large online software project, give a 6 month contract to a team of devs in India, and see what happens. I'm sure it'll be stellar.

[StevieWonders]

Feel free to put together a large online software project, give a 6 month contract to a team of devs in India, and see what happens. I'm sure it'll be stellar.As a matter of fact I was on such a project in 2007 (the developers were based in Noida near Delhi) and it went swimmingly. But a solid grasp of reality has never been one of your strengths.