That’s “no” for a tourism-led recovery

[StevieWonders]

In what’s possibly a first for Thailand’s tourism industry, a reality check in today’s Nation suggests that tourism in 2023 (2 or 3 years from now) is likely to be only 80% of what it was last year.

https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30398677

[latintopxxx]

all silly guess work...if the vaccines prove to be effctive then it could all be back to normal by next weekend...

[Manforallseasons]

all silly guess work...if the vaccines prove to be effctive then it could all be back to normal by next weekend...

Latin I’ve looked at some history of your posts and I can’t help wonder why you even bother to be a member here! At least Scottishguy posted the occasional meaningless post with a bit of wit something you know nothing about.

[latintopxxx]

i'd say fo [Deleted text] only i'm sure u would enjoy it and deny the gogos a living...

Some text in this post has been deleted under rule 4.7.

Jellybean
Moderator

[gerefan2]

i

Some text in this post has been deleted under rule 4.7.

Jellybean
Moderator

Now just let me guess....

[Marc K]

Now just let me guess....

Okay gurls pull in the claws. No cat fights here PLS. If we can't all respect each other's opinion here where in f*ck could we do so! [censored, Moses]

If that is not the credo we will all live by, then we should all just permanently sign off and go without this opportunity to express ourselves openly.

I too often find LatinBottom over the top. (No pun intended.) But he is entitled to his opinion as much as we all are.

<end rant>

[Marc K]

In what’s possibly a first for Thailand’s tourism industry, a reality check in today’s Nation suggests that tourism in 2023 (2 or 3 years from now) is likely to be only 80% of what it was last year.

https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30398677

I think these estimates are about right. We are predicting a similar trend in tourism here in Hawaii too. It will take some time. Here we expect an initial burst of pent-up demand, followed by a surge in cases (again!), followed by a fallow period.

In any case is a lull in mass, unrestricted tourism a bad thing? A slightly quieter, less overrun atmosphere is healing and helpful. Here (as apparently in Thailand) traffic is down, the seas are clear. For some reason (a coincidence?) our trademark balmy breezes (the tradewinds) have been far more prevalent this last summer making for a pleasant climate too. It's a good thing because I, like most residents here, have no air conditioning.

Mass tourism, especially cheap-charlie sex tourism, has not yielded many benefits to Thailand in the long run. Like every other developing nation, as it ascends the income ladder, it will likely reduce the blight of sex tourism, AND mass tourism, in favor of a more managed approach. Actually, even as a gay man, I must applaud Thailand for doing so. Thai lives will improve.

[StevieWonders]

Latin I’ve looked at some history of your posts and I can’t help wonder why you even bother to be a member here! Now, now MFAS, everyone needs a hobby. There's one Bangkok-based member whose interest lies in the minutiae of how Silom Soi 4 bar owners organise their staff meetings FFS.

[latintopxxx]

have no idea why jellybean was sooo upset...all i wrtote is that I would suggest mfas have coitus with himself but didnt as he might just enjoy it...

[dinagam]

Latin... You're so hilarious...
That's in the realm of contortionists.

[Dodger]

I think these estimates are about right.

I tend to agree.

I think after this covid monster leaves the room global tourism will have stunted growth for many years to come.

Thailand's forecast of getting back to 80% by 2023 is probably a long-shot at best.

There are many factors at play here:

Many people (all country's) have been impacted financially due to covid and may opt for lower-cost domestic vacations for a while.

Health and safety concerns won't magically disappear any time soon, even after the planet gets vaccinated.

The airlines will undoubtedly increase their costs to recoup the billions of dollars lost during the pandemic - making international travel unaffordable to some.

Many tourist style resorts and hotels, as well as many tourist entertainment venues, may have diminished in quantity (and possibly quality) due to the pandemic, making international destinations, including Thailand, less desirable.

All factors considered, getting back up to 80% in this millennium is probably a stretch.

[latintopxxx]

oh Lord Jesus God and all the angels in heaven couldnt rescue dodger from his misery pit...

[Dodger]

oh Lord Jesus God and all the angels in heaven couldnt rescue dodger from his misery pit...

Yah...it's miserable being stuck in Thailand during this pandemic...but somebody's gotta do it.

[arsenal]

Honestly. I think most here would appreciate a more upbeat reportage from those in Thailand. It is in fact human.nature to look forward to a better tomorrow and it's what has sustained millions of people throughout the centuries in far worse conditions than now.

[Nirish guy]

well in general in life I'd agree Arsenal but Im actually sort of quietly hoping that those that managed to make the trek and get their visas etc all report back with posts screaming "OMG why did we bother, it's terrible, you'd hate it here, everything is closed, you were definitely better staying there in the UK at Christmas and saving your money and saving yourself all the hassle, or why oh WHY did we come here, it's SHIT !!" sort of thing - mainly so that "I' dont feel like kicking myself when reading their ""actually it's not to bad, the weathers lovely, there ARE enough boys and bars to go around and it sure as shit beats sitting in the UK over Christmas THAT's for sure type posts ! :)


On a serious note I DO hope that those who are making the trek enjoy themselves and find it worthwhile ( I've no doubt they will) but that doesn't mean I wont be sitting here quietly cursing myself as I hear of every day that they're there and I'm stuck here mind ! :-)

[StevieWonders]

Honestly. I think most here would appreciate a more upbeat reportage from those in Thailand. It is in fact human.nature to look forward to a better tomorrow and it's what has sustained millions of people throughout the centuries in far worse conditions than now.
For myself I’m having a fabulous time. The bars are not too busy, allowing me to socialise in a relaxed, comfortable atmosphere. The boys are plentiful and - desperate for regular money - not too expensive. I have the same half/dozen on the go which allows me to know (biblically) what I’m getting while adding some variety to the mix.

Is that upbeat enough?

[latintopxxx]

...some pics of your mbs would round it off nicely

[StevieWonders]

...some pics of your mbs would round it off nicelyAlways leave something to the imagination.

[Dodger]

Honestly. I think most here would appreciate a more upbeat reportage from those in Thailand.

As an optimist at heart, I also prefer hearing upbeat news, but ignoring reality in the process just to "feel good" serves no purpose whatsoever.

It makes more sense to me for a person to want to understand the changes that are taking place around him as it pertains to this pandemic, e.g., changes in the airline industry...changes in demographics, economic considerations, etc., to help prepare for the future and adjust their own lifestyles accordingly.

As StevieWonders correctly stated in his response in this thread, life over here really is fabulous, especially when considering the alternatives, but I rather doubt that's the kind of upbeat report you're referring to.

[StevieWonders]

Well said Dodger but there are many who forget the Second Noble Truth of Buddhism which I often paraphrase as “Being deluded does not lead to real happiness”. Unfortunately Dr Pangloss has many disciples.

[arsenal]

Dodger and Stevie.
Is it that you won't get it or you can't get it?

[StevieWonders]

Dodger and Stevie.
Is it that you won't get it or you can't get it?Perhaps we’re too busy “naval gazing” as you most hilariously put it. All the nice boys live a sailor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAJFqgmOPJE

[arsenal]

"All the nice boys live a sailor:"

"live" a sailor as you most hilariously put it.

Superstevie. Let's not get into that again.

[StevieWonders]

"All the nice boys live a sailor:"

"live" a sailor as you most hilariously put it.

Superstevie. Let's not get into that again.How is the English teaching going in China?

[StevieWonders]

In more upbeat news, Reuters are reporting that authorities are trying to contact-trace around 200 people (out of 356) in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai after 3 women bypassed immigration checkpoints crossing from Myanmar (via what are euphemistically referred to as “natural border crossings”) and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19.

It’s also reported that Thailand’s tourism minister has said it will be March at the earliest before there will be any changes allowing mass tourism. March, eh. Did someone say “unlikely before Songkran 2021” several months ago? Ah yes, that would have been me.

I do hope that’s upbeat enough.

[arsenal]

"How is the English teaching going in China?"

Well it's a full encompassing business and as is obvious, it's going very well thank you for asking.

And are you sure you want to continue on this well traversed (by you) path, namely hating the whole board. Your previous incarnation ended up wailing and sobbing to the mods on an almost daily basis before finally throwing your toys out the pram.

[Dodger]

Dodger and Stevie.

Is it that you won't get it or you can't get it?

It all depends on what "It" is.

[StevieWonders]

"How is the English teaching going in China?"

Well it's a full encompassing business and as is obvious, it's going very well thank you for asking.

And are you sure you want to continue on this well traversed (by you) path, namely hating the whole board. Your previous incarnation ended up wailing and sobbing to the mods on an almost daily basis before finally throwing your toys out the pram.Don’t be like that arsenal, we’re just two Western sodomites out to corrupt the young males of Asia.

[StevieWonders]

Australians have just been advised there’ll be no (sex) tourism to Thailand (or anywhere else) until mid-March 2021 at the earliest - https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coronavirus/2020/12/08/australia-virus-active-cases/

[latintopxxx]

stevieboy...u must think u lot invented decadent sex...u forget u were rooting around in caves competing with wild boars and they were already lounging on silk sheets...

[Nirish guy]

Australians have just been advised there’ll be no (sex) tourism to Thailand (or anywhere else) until mid-March 2021 /[/url]

What if you scouts PROMISE not to have sex, do you think they'd maybe make an exception !?

PS As I was never actually IN the Scouts I of course wouldn't offer any such promise as binding ! :)

[francois]

Australians havthere’ll be no (sex) tourism to Thailand (or anywhere else) until mid-Marche just been advised 2021 at the earliest - https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coronavirus/2020/12/08/australia-virus-active-cases/

No mention of sex tourism in the article

[StevieWonders]

What if you scouts PROMISE not to have sex, do you think they'd maybe make an exception !?

PS As I was never actually IN the Scouts I of course wouldn't offer any such promise as binding ! :)It doesn’t mention Francois’ sole reason for visiting Thailand (the temples, what else?) but it’s a reasonable inference that that too is banned.

[StevieWonders]

No mention of sex tourism in the articleThe love that dare not speak its name as dear Oscar put it.

[Oliver2]

"Dear Oscar's" celebrated description of consorting with rent-boys as "feasting with panthers" is singularly inappropriate to those of us who know the Thai scene; our MBs are more like pussy-cats.

[a447]

" our MBs are more like pussy-cats.

Speak for yourself.

Thankfully my "friends" are anything but "pussy-cats" in bed.

Out of bed is a different story.

[Oliver2]

You are probably right about that!

Some of Oscar's rent-boys blackmailed him and betrayed him to the authorities, admittedly as a result of threats and promises. They were dangerous. Ours aren't....at least the ones I know! I hope.

[a447]

They were dangerous. Ours aren't....

I agree 100%.

Along with Japanese guys, from personal experience Thais are some of the sweetest guys on the planet! How lucky we are!

When the borders open I will be happy to travel to either country for a bit of R&R.

Shouldn't be long now.

[pong]

I agree 100%.

Along with Japanese guys, from personal experience Thais are some of the sweetest guys on the planet! How lucky we are!

When the borders open I will be happy to travel to either country for a bit of R&R.

Shouldn't be long now.

Agree. Add the Khmer too.
and good news in principle: TH now allows all people from anywhere in, not just those from covid-free countries. The oversized BIG BUT remains however: 14 day lonely lock-up in a hotel. No chance even of trying to convince the numerous hotelboys to provide some extra service......
And hoorrah_ also a proposal now (thus not yet OKed) that for those who can get the normal visafree 30 days (=about anyone here)-this is to be extended to 45 days, to allow for the 15 days lockup and afterwards allow you the full 30 days of freedom.In the travel-industry now big talks about the vaccine and airline requirements to only take injected people on board or what the usual touristy countries will decide on who to allow enrty.
Meanwhile sitting here in a drizzly cold misty EUrope whilst all the last 20+ years being in TH this time of year does not make me the luckiest of persons.

[StevieWonders]

You are probably right about that!

Some of Oscar's rent-boys blackmailed him and betrayed him to the authorities, admittedly as a result of threats and promises. They were dangerous. Ours aren't....at least the ones I know! I hope.You’re comparing street prostitution in a country where male same-sex activity at that time had recently been re-criminalised (although sodomy itself had always been illegal) with off-street prostitution in a country where same-sex activities have never been criminalised.

[arsenal]

Oliver wrote.
"Some of Oscar's rent-boys blackmailed him and betrayed him to the authorities, admittedly as a result of threats and promises. They were dangerous. Ours aren't....at least the ones I know! I hope."

An interesting comparison and you're right. Ours are not only not dangerous but are angels of mercy dishing sexual tlc to those in need of such.

If you haven't seen it The Happy Prince written by, directed and starring Rupert Everett is the best Oscar Wilde movie ever.

[Smiles]

This for StevieWonder.

Noted that you live in Bangkok. I was in Bangkok only 3 times this year (normally it would about 5 times). Also I have only been in the first six months of 2020.
On each of those excursions the use of masks was pretty well (no science!) into the 90% numbers. The Sky Trains, the sidewalks, the Starbucks, Balcony was awash with Thais-in-masks et al (Farangs mostly wearing at about 40%).... etc etc etc.
Now it is near end and heading into 2021. Have you noticed Thais are still wearing masks as much as they did in earlier 2020?

I live in Hua Hin and the mask wearing is much less than it used to be. Even then most wear them lower than the nose. 7-11's won't let you in without one. The two large malls here are still using a derringer on one's forehead, and wearing the mask ... but a good number take them off once inside.

[StevieWonders]

Now it is near end and heading into 2021. Have you noticed Thais are still wearing masks as much as they did in earlier 2020?Subjective impression is that boredom with masks seems to have set in; things in Bangkok sound similar to Hua Hin. Take a couple of illustrated recent stories in the Bangkok Post (links below) and count the number of masks you can see being worn (as opposed to slung around the throat). However staff where I'm currently lunching (at my local Au Bon Pain (bottom of Silom)) wear masks while working and that's generally true of service entities.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/politics/2012131/king-declares-love-for-all-calls-thailand-land-of-compromise
https://www.bangkokpost.com/photo/2030567/sea-of-yellow

However masks are mandatory on public transport which means most people are at least carrying one if not actually wearing it all the time.

[latintopxxx]

arsenal...i believe that oscar's challenge was that homo was illegal and the cops were part of the scam..in Thailand whilst prostitution is illegal...nobody really cares unless you veer completely offtrack into soi chicken zone....and homo is not illegal...and nthe Thais still kinda care about world opinion

[arsenal]

Oscar had many challenges Latin. Were he alive today he would still be a tortured soul.

[Oliver2]

Oscar's problem was not so much his sexuality (the underground gay scene was extensive in Victorian Britain) but his lack of shame and embarrassment. He flaunted it.
Then came the " Labouchere Amendment" in 1895 which more less turned blackmail into a full-time profession for the "panthers". Oscar was the most famous, but not the only, casualty.
Oscar would have one issue to face were he alive today and that was his interest in boys in their mid-teens It is likely that his behaviour would attract a much heavier sentence today

[latintopxxx]

yes, have read about the victorian gay scene...soldiers making them selves available...the post office boys...pity there isnt more literature on it...all very titilating...

[Oliver2]

There's a huge amount about Wilde and Bosie, and the Uranians. Check out Google . For reports of the Telegraph boy/Cleveland Street scandal there are biographies of Prince Eddy, the Queen's son who was allegedly involved. .

And for insight into the life of a real rent-boy, The Sins of Jack Saul by Glenn Chandler is a good read. He comes across as a likeable and courageous young man. Definitely not a panther! He is alleged to have written The Sins of the Cities of the Plain- genuine Victorian gay pornography much admired by Wilde. Easily available in various editions. It also tells the story of Cleveland Street.

Finally, for a novel which observes the scene sympathetically, read Chris Hunt's Street Lavender. Full of period detail. And immensely touching. Sadly out of print but available second-hand. I defy anyone not to have a tear in the eye at its conclusion.

[arsenal]

Oliver wrote.
"It is likely that his behaviour would attract a much heavier sentence today"

Irony huh? The movie I mentioned paints Wilde as very much the architect of his own downfall and not the victim he's usually portrayed as. At one point one of his beyond loyal friends ask another how long he's staying (with Oscar in France) with the warning "He'll eat you."

[Brad the Impala]

If you haven't seen it The Happy Prince written by, directed and starring Rupert Everett is the best Oscar Wilde movie ever.

Indeed, as they say it was the role that Everett was borne to play. The story of his obsession with Oscar is the subject of the third part of his autobiography "To the End of the World". He is a very witty writer.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/11/to-the-end-of-the-world-by-rupert-everett-review-witty-memoir-of-a-wilde-life

[Nirish guy]

And for insight into the life of a real rent-boy, The Sins of Jack Saul by Glenn Chandler is a good read. .

Thanks for that Oliver. Thats one thing I like on the board, people recommending Movies and books etc as a lot of the time I go chase that up and enjoy them and it's usually titles that would never have heard about or thought of if is wasn't for reading about them on here.

Also in following the above up to order those books ( on Amazon) I also was pleasantly surprised to discover that along with my standard Amazon Prime membership I also seemingly get free access to over 1000 books on their site too that i wasn't even aware of, plus as it seems I'd watched at least one Prime streaming show I also then got a fiver off my next next Amazon online shop !

So, yeah thanks for that Oliver, so I've now got both the titles you mentioned stilling on my kindle waiting to be read over christmas, plus those other few benefits all racked up, so not a bad start to a lazy Sunday morning ;-) ( ha this isn't an advert for Amazon btw ! lol)

[arsenal]

Brad wrote.
"Indeed, as they say it was the role that Everett was borne to play."

Absolutely. I was lucky enough to catch Donald Sinden as OW in a one man play back in 1989. He was mesmerising. Held the audience in the palm of his hand from curtain up to standing ovation.

Talking of actors born to play roles. Hugh Grant as Jeremy Thorpe in A Very English Scandal is superb.

[Oliver2]

I've read all of Chris Hunt's novels published by Gay Man's Press....alas, long since expired. There is also a follow-up to Street Lavender , N for Narcissus.
Another beautiful novel is Mignon, the story of one of Henri 3rd 's catamites and his adventures in the world of Christopher Marlowe and the Elizabethan theatre.
Hunt doesn't "do" titillation- the sex is handled decorously- but the novels are infused with homo-eroticism and bring to life the experiences of our gay ancestors. Of whom there were more than many think! All the novels are worth looking at.

And, by the way, I saw Everett on the London stage a few years ago playing Oscar in his "retirement" in Italy. Quite a performance. A sort of preparation for the film.

[Armando]

Brad wrote.
"Indeed, as they say it was the role that Everett was borne to play."

Absolutely. I was lucky enough to catch Donald Sinden as OW in a one man play back in 1989. He was mesmerising. Held the audience in the palm of his hand from curtain up to standing ovation.

Talking of actors born to play roles. Hugh Grant as Jeremy Thorpe in A Very English Scandal is superb.
Donald Sinden was a wonderful and remarkably versatile actor. Also agree about Hugh Grant's excellent portrayal of Jeremy Thorpe. His best role to date.