Russian COVID vaccine - published results

[Moses]

Russians today declared "at least 92% efficiency": only 20 sick from 16000 in trial of Sputnik-V.

As per Reuters
That is significantly lower than the 94 infections in the trial of a vaccine being developed by Pfizer Inc

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-russia-vaccine/russia-says-its-sputnik-v-covid-19-vaccine-is-92-effective-idUSKBN27R0Z6

[StevieWonders]

For those who are interested, the first results of Russia’s Sputnik COVID-19 vaccine have been released showing 92% efficacy from a small sample

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/the-first-interim-data-analysis-of-the-sputnik-v-vaccine-against-covid-19-phase-iii-clinical-trials-in-the-russian-federation-demonstrated-92-efficacy-1029791207

[Moses]

For those who are interested, the first results of Russia’s Sputnik COVID-19 vaccine have been released showing 92% efficacy from a small sample

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/the-first-interim-data-analysis-of-the-sputnik-v-vaccine-against-covid-19-phase-iii-clinical-trials-in-the-russian-federation-demonstrated-92-efficacy-1029791207

It is OK what you remind to members about efficacy of Sputnik-V in 11 days after news has been released, I just don't understand why you call sample small? Gamaleya 16000 of 40000, Pfizer 22000 of 44000, Moderna 15000 from 30000.

So, Sputnik-V small group and Moderna tiny group?

By the way:

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[StevieWonders]

ONLY 20 confirmed cases - the others are reporting larger numbers

[Moses]

About prices:

Moderna $37 per shot of 2
Pfizer $19.5 per shot of 2
Oxford (manufactured in India) $6.74 per shot of 2
Sputnik $5 per shot of 2

[Moses]

ONLY 20 confirmed cases - the others are reporting larger numbers

It's understandable: here in Russia level of pandemic is about 5 times lover than in USA - we have here 457K of active cases in comp with 4785K cases in US,

[StevieWonders]

Now we’ve happily resolved that you’ll be doubtless turning your attention as owner and sponsor of this Forum to the little matter of Putin and Russian homophobia

[Moses]

Now we’ve happily resolved that you’ll be doubtless turning your attention as owner and sponsor of this Forum to the little matter of Putin and Russian homophobia

"little matter of Putin" sounded 2 days ago on G20 - Putin was only leader who offered vaccine to any country [of Third World] what need it and as I got it: Russia offers it for free.

As per Russian homophobia - it has roots in Orthodox Christianity, not in state politic.

[StevieWonders]

About prices:

Moderna $37 per shot of 2
Pfizer $19.5 per shot of 2
Oxford (manufactured in India) $6.74 per shot of 2
Sputnik $5 per shot of 2It was dear Oscar, wasn’t it, who wrote of those who know the price of everything.

[Brad the Impala]

For those who are interested, the first results of Russia’s Sputnik COVID-19 vaccine have been released showing 92% efficacy from a small sample

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/the-first-interim-data-analysis-of-the-sputnik-v-vaccine-against-covid-19-phase-iii-clinical-trials-in-the-russian-federation-demonstrated-92-efficacy-1029791207

Curious to be adding as news the "first results" of 92% directly below a post which announced exactly the same thing 11 days previously! Too busy chasing Moses around the board to notice. Do keep up!

[Moses]

It was dear Oscar, wasn’t it, who wrote of those who know the price of everything.

It was Reuters in different news.

[Moses]

Curious to be adding as news the "first results" of 92% directly below a post which announced exactly the same thing 11 days previously! Too busy chasing Moses around the board to notice. Do keep up!

SW published his post separately, it was me who merged 2 similar posts into one thread.

[goji]

About prices:

Moderna $37 per shot of 2
Pfizer $19.5 per shot of 2
Oxford (manufactured in India) $6.74 per shot of 2
Sputnik $5 per shot of 2

All of those prices will work out cheaper than the economic support measures in many countries.

As for the case numbers in the trials, I read somewhere that Russia gave 75% of the trial population the vaccine and 25% the placebo. If correct, it's quite a sensible move, since the placebo group is just a reference to compare the number of infections etc, whilst they get a larger sample size of people to check side effects on.
This would also mean fewer infections, although it doesn't account for all of the difference to the 2 trials announced by the American companies.

[StevieWonders]

All of those prices will work out cheaper than the economic support measures in many countries.

As for the case numbers in the trials, I read somewhere that Russia gave 75% of the trial population the vaccine and 25% the placebo. If correct, it's quite a sensible move, since the placebo group is just a reference to compare the number of infections etc, whilst they get a larger sample size of people to check side effects on.
This would also mean fewer infections, although it doesn't account for all of the difference to the 2 trials announced by the American companies.
My hope is that as many people as possible get vaccinated as quickly as possible so that those who are more cautious can be more certain that any downsides have come to light (especially before I am vaccinated myself).

[StevieWonders]

Curious to be adding as news the "first results" of 92% directly below a post which announced exactly the same thing 11 days previously! Too busy chasing Moses around the board to notice. Do keep up!Novichok is always at the forefront of many minds whenever Russia’s undoubted skills in drugs are mentioned.

[latintopxxx]

stevie u r such a hero...its people like u we need to build a nation.....

[Moses]

Novichok is always at the forefront of many minds whenever Russia’s undoubted skills in drugs are mentioned.

Do you want to push me by this sentence to express my sorry to brainwashed?

News.
Vaccination will starts at Dec 5 in Moscow. There are 70 vaccination points on the base of state clinics in the city. Everyone may apply for free vaccination via official site of Moscow https://www.mos.ru/city/projects/covid-19/privivka/ (rus.lang) limitations: 16-60 years, no sickness. There will be check up with doctor before to make injection. Mandatory 30 min after-injection-observation within clinic. Older people will be vaccinated by social services (every elder here has social worker for care) at their homes, starting from January.

At first few weeks preferences will have doctors (and other medical staff) and teachers (and other school staff).

[goji]

Everyone may apply for free vaccination via official site of Moscow https://www.mos.ru/city/projects/covid-19/privivka/ (rus.lang) limitations: 16-60 years

An interesting policy difference to the UK, where the vaccine will be prioritized as below (in order of priority).

Residents in a care home for older adults and their carers
All those 80 years of age and over; frontline health and social care workers
All those 75 years of age and over
All those 70 years of age and over; clinically extremely vulnerable individuals
All those 65 years of age and over
All individuals aged 16 years to 64 years with underlying health conditions which put them at higher risk of serious disease and mortality
All those 60 years of age and over
All those 55 years of age and over
All those 50 years of age and over

[Moses]

An interesting policy difference to the UK, where the vaccine will be prioritized as below (in order of priority).

Residents in a care home for older adults and their carers
All those 80 years of age and over; frontline health and social care workers
All those 75 years of age and over
All those 70 years of age and over; clinically extremely vulnerable individuals
All those 65 years of age and over
All individuals aged 16 years to 64 years with underlying health conditions which put them at higher risk of serious disease and mortality
All those 60 years of age and over
All those 55 years of age and over
All those 50 years of age and over

Reason of difference is: it is not state vaccination. It is city's vaccination - Moscow own few pharma-companies and huge network of clinics (over 750) + network of hospitals.

State's vaccination will starts from January. Here almost not exists care homes for older - they are living in own homes and social workers visits them at homes, it is free service. The only elders who are living in care homes - these who can't walk themself. All elders are under patronage of Ministry of social protection and care and this ministry will provide vaccination program for them.

[Brad the Impala]

Reason of difference is: it is not state vaccination. It is city's vaccination - Moscow own few pharma-companies and huge network of clinics (over 750) + network of hospitals.



It's still reverse priorities.One country starts by vaccinating the most vulnerable, the other starts with the most healthy and least vulnerable.

[dinagam]

It is heartening to note that Russia still has a society which supports the elderly with scheduled home visits by support staff and professionals. Of course those who are debilitated and not ambulatory need to be in a care home.
Hurrah to socialism.

[Moses]

It's still reverse priorities.One country starts by vaccinating the most vulnerable, the other starts with the most healthy and least vulnerable.

No. Here are different competences. People after 60 are in competence of Ministry of social care, city not responsible for them anymore, money for to care about them are going via state channel, not from city anymore. So city can't offer to older people vaccination - it is outside of city budget and if city will do - it will break law.

So regionals usually are faster, federals usually are slower. I think if even they will start vaccination in January - it will be for sure at last days of January.

[Brad the Impala]

In a pandemic it would be good to think that bureaucracies could collaborate to look after the sickest. Not that that has happened as effectively as it should have in the UK!

[latintopxxx]

Im a little tired of this us versus them type arguments...nobody seems to mention that in sweden where they went for the herd immunity option covid spread like wildfire through elderly care homes wiping them out...shameless...but then when life isnt valued this is what u get

[StevieWonders]

Im a little tired of this us versus them type arguments...nobody seems to mention that in sweden where they went for the herd immunity option covid spread like wildfire through elderly care homes wiping them out...shameless...but then when life isnt valued this is what u getThink of all the future pension payments the Swedish government has saved. Swings and roundabouts.

[Moses]

Application for vaccination. Available in my account. Appointment at any day any time. The only minus - vaccination point which they offer to me is in 20 min by car from my home.

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[Brad the Impala]

Excellent! I don't think 20 minutes drive is too much of a downside, I'd be happy to go further(if I only had the opportunity!).

[Moses]

First shot. Next in 21 day.

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[Moses]

Short report.

Friend told me what he had +38C and headache 3 days after vaccination. My case is different: I had +36.9C starting from 12th hour after vaccination for 24 hours and light headache at 24th hour after injection what been eliminated by pill and never come back again.

[latintopxxx]

...quuitye amazing that you guys (Russians with that ca\tapult in siberia) are so onto it...that is compared tothe US where there is a death every second and they are still arguing about masks...its enough to drive one to drink

[StevieWonders]

Im a little tired of this us versus them type arguments...nobody seems to mention that in sweden where they went for the herd immunity option covid spread like wildfire through elderly care homes wiping them out...shameless...but then when life isnt valued this is what u getFew countries have made a success of dealing with institutions such as aged care homes. But Japan whose population is on average older than Sweden’s never went into lockdown and has had an enviable record compared to other countries. There the cinemas, for example, have never closed and new films attract the usual large audiences.

[latintopxxx]

...would be helpful if you would expouse why ...

[cdnmatt]

...would be helpful if you would expouse why ...


Because in general, Asians aren't complete morons who hold anti-mask protests while chanting bullshit slogans like "live free or die", nor do they think KoVid is some government hoax or some conspiracy for population control via a vaccine headed up by Bill Gates.

Only us retarded white folks think and act like that.

[a447]

...would be helpful if you would expouse why ...

In a word - ３密. (Sammitsu)

The Chinese character refers to being close. So the ３密 are:

Avoid enclosed spaces
Avoid crowds
Socially distance

The same behaviours we are encouraged to follow.

Japanese are generally very disciplined and tend to easily follow instructions. Compare this attitude to many Americans who insist on their "rights" and refuse to comply with health advice.

You won't find a Japanese "Karen".

Also, Japanese bow instead of shaking hands and don't hug or kiss like us. Plus they place great emphasis on personal hygiene so washing hands and wearing masks is part of daily life.

[StevieWonders]

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[dinagam]

There is certainly a better and safer option.

[Moses]

Vaccination by EpiVacCorona - second Russian vaccine just started yesterday in Russia. EpiVacCorona is "old fashioned" vaccine from killed viruses, is made by "Vector" institute in Siberia. It brings lower level of immunity to users, but is more "soft" so it is safe to use for pregnant and for seniors.

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[arsenal]

Moses wrote
"so it is safe to use for pregnant and for seniors."

Ah yes. But what about the pregnant seniors. Is there anything for them from the Russian pharmaceutical wonderlab?

https://www.oldest.org/people/pregnant-women/

[latintopxxx]

arsenal..u can be sooo annoying...lol

[siscu58]

Not senior but pregnant and male

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[Khor tose]

Vaccination by EpiVacCorona - second Russian vaccine just started yesterday in Russia. EpiVacCorona is "old fashioned" vaccine from killed viruses, is made by "Vector" institute in Siberia. It brings lower level of immunity to users, but is more "soft" so it is safe to use for pregnant and for seniors.

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If they start selling this on-line, let me know. In the meantime, here is a great site for sputnik V.
https://sputnikvaccine.com

Congratulations to Russian medicine for being first out and maybe the best. Now would you please quit hacking our Federal Departments>

[Moses]

Now would you please quit hacking our Federal Departments>

?
Why?
Every country does espionage. Do you forgot scandal when Germany found what ANS listens Merkel? US hasn't monopoly for hacking. It is multi-polar world, you know. Bye-bye "Uncle Sam" and your monopoly, thank you mr. Snowden

By the way: in 2009 Putin offered to US agreement for to fight together with hackers around the World, Obama declined it. Now what are you waiting for ?

One more thing: do you know why White House had plan to announce sanctions against Russia at past Friday but suddenly dropped plan? They finally found, what hacker isn't Russian (in meaning "from Russia"). Google Andrey Turchin. https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/pr/citizen-kazakhstan-known-fxmsp-charged-computer-fraud-wire-fraud-and-conspiracy-hacking

[StevieWonders]

Every country does espionage. Do you forgot scandal when Germany found what ANS listens Merkel? US hasn't monopoly for hacking. It is multi-polar world, you know.The only known “hack” by a US or US-friendly agency was the Stuxnet computer virus planted by Israel (it’s always been assumed) in Iran’s nuclear bomb-making facilities. Countries that can do it all the time we must assume.

[Moses]

The only known “hack” by a US or US-friendly agency was the Stuxnet computer virus planted by Israel (it’s always been assumed) in Iran’s nuclear bomb-making facilities. Countries that can do it all the time we must assume.

Are you serious?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24690055 US bugged Merkel's phone from 2002 until 2013
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24670642 Italy data 'targeted in UK-US spy operation'
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/ american sniffing on communication lines
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-snowden-dell/snowden-downloaded-nsa-secrets-while-working-for-dell-sources-say-idUSBRE97E17P20130815 Edward Snowden began downloading documents describing the U.S. government’s electronic spying programs while he was working for Dell

Just fast check of "only known" shows what "only known" are quite more facts...

[StevieWonders]

I was thinking more in terms of “hostile and harmful” - you know, SOP for your chums.

[Moses]

I was thinking more in terms of “hostile and harmful” - you know, SOP for your chums.

Oh, uh, yeah... "friendly American espionage" and "hostile Russian espionage"? Sure-sure... by the way: what's more looks like betray - espionage from long-time-competitor or espionage from friend?

[StevieWonders]

Oh, uh, yeah... "friendly American espionage" and "hostile Russian espionage"? Sure-sure... by the way: what's more looks like betray - espionage from long-time-competitor or espionage from friend?What do your talking points suggest?

[Moses]

What do your talking points suggest?

They suggest to read less propaganda and to start to think by own brain.

Countries without own intelligence service does not exists (while we are talking about countries of normal size, not about island with 200 citizens). Intelligence service what defecates by roses does not exists. Poisoning, torturing, killing, bribing, hacking - typical methods of any intelligence and counterintelligence service.

Complaining on results of foreign I.S. shows only one - own counterintelligence service works bad and opponent got result instead to be founded and locked in prison for exchange to own agents who failed in opponent's country.

[StevieWonders]

Complaining on results of foreign I.S. shows only one - own counterintelligence service works bad and opponent got result instead to be founded and locked in prison for exchange to own agents who failed in opponent's country.I hadn’t thought of it like that before.

[Moses]

Today I got second shot.

My impressions about process: at time of the first shot clinic had 2 "conveyors" for to process vaccination: fill papers with nurse - checkup with doctor - injection with nurse - waiting 30 min under surveillance of nurse in big room in case of any allergy. Today they had already 5 "conveyors" - 5 separated paralleled processes.

As per nurse all time-slots for first shot on all 5 lines were taken for today and for 10 days forward from today (here you can choose any day to visit doctor in his schedule at next 14 days if doctor has vacant time slot, we do it via phone application where you can make appointment to your therapist, surgeon, ophthalmologist, urologist, doctor "mouth, nose and ears", also appointment for injections, massage, and other simple procedures) .

In line for second shot were just few persons. Also some papers, then check up, then injections. Nothing new, all took 15 min + 30 min of mandatory waiting under supervising of nurse after shot. Just vial with vaccine is red at this time (vial for first shot is blue).

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[Nirish guy]

Having read today on the BBC that the death toll in Russian from Covid related illnesses was three times higher than previously reported I'm glad to hear that you've now had both of your vaccine shots and hopefully Covid is one thing you (Moses) can personally start to think about less re your own personal health at least.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55474028

[Moses]

Having read today on the BBC that the death toll in Russian from Covid related illnesses was three times higher than previously reported

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55474028

BBC are stupid. They make "news" from nothing.

There are 2 numbers in Russian statistic about COVID. First is deaths "because of COVID" and it in accordance with local standards is reported daily to WHO. Second is number of deaths linked to COVID - for example person who has COVID and weight 200kg died from heart attack in hospital. This person will be reported in second number only. But person who has lungs damaged 90% and died from low oxygen in blood will be in both numbers. Each country has own national standards how to record reasons of the death. Golikova talks about second numbers, Russia reports to WHO first numbers, nothing new. We have Russian proverb "To suck news from finger". It is exactly this case.

Govt doesn't hide numbers here and reports both numbers on monthly basis.

[Nirish guy]

To be fair I think the BBC also explained that fairly clearly that in their article too. They aren't criticising, merely pointing out your own difference in reporting numbers and how (as you've also said ) that if the second group of numbers were used as reported by your own Deputy Prime Minister and not the first your "deaths from Covid" basic numbers then your death rate would show as a much higher figure than before.

They also reported that your Dep PM stated that you weren't previously "hiding" figures, just reporting them differently, which again is basically what that BBC article was saying too, whilst flagging up the change in figures DID change your "deaths from" figure too of course, so it's hardly either stupid or news from nothing really, it is just "fact" it seems. Our Govt tried using both figures for a while too I should add, but also had to report and end up using the higher ( more accurate / true) figure as well.

From the BBC article.....
"Russia has been criticised for calculating its official deaths from Covid-19 based on the number of post-mortem examinations that list coronavirus as the main cause of death. However, this means that other deaths linked to Covid-19, which did not list it as the main cause of death, will not have been included.The new numbers mean Russia's coronavirus death toll could be the world's third-highest, after the US with 335,000 deaths"

Either

[Moses]

N.g. you didn't got my point about BBC's article.

My point is: it is just typical British propaganda. Day by day they (BBC) publishing such "news" where "Russia hiding", "highly likely Russia", "Russian hackers", now "3 times higher than prev. reported" But prev reported were both numbers. Both. If they "previously" had read one only - it is their guilt, not Russian, because previously and previously-previously were reported both, not one.

Also it is annoying what BBC writes "news" about level of COVID in Russia (280 per 1 mln) every week at least, but pays no attention to Sweden or Poland. Nobody questions level or reported deaths in Germany (the same as in Russia - 277) nor in Poland, or Denmark (211). Even 39 per million in Australia isn't in news as well as 99 from Finland. So my post above was not about criticism, but about propaganda. Clean, uncovered and straightforward propaganda. Like drops in the silence, one by one, by one... annoying.

[Nirish guy]

No you’re right, I don’t see your point. Well I read it but I don’t agree with it.

Just as the west are do undoubtedly use propaganda ( as Russia does) I actually don’t think this is one of those times. I seen it more as the BBC simply saying that your Dep PM is now releasing numbers ( to the west?) that have been declared in one way before but if abd as they are are now also being declared another way ( by your own Dep PM) then your deaths from number will be higher than before. That’s just a simple statement of fact.

As I said the UK Government also reported their numbers “differently” before as well and they too had to accept the fact that when declared / read differently they gave the UK a much higher death rate too.

Sometimes news is just news and not “always” hard core propaganda against Russia ( as you seemingly always tend to see it?)

But ok, my point remains the same, no matter which method of counting is used I’m happy tyat you now have been able to get both your injections and can now start to think less about catching Covid yourself at least now.

[siscu58]

Congratulations Moses. You are now ready to go to LOS! Just tell them that you are immunised and they will let you in, no doubt.

As for Covid death related numbers, I think that every country hides real numbers, partly because they dont know exactly and partly because they dont want to be sought as bad managers of that pandemic. Now the UK, in its current catastrophic scenario of infections, needs to point to other countries as worst than themselves. Russia has been chosen for that!

[Moses]

Sometimes news is just news and not “always” hard core propaganda against Russia ( as you seemingly always tend to see it?)


If I will believe in all they say about Russia, I must to be proud about Russia: we already installed few US presidents, won space competition, Russian hackers feel themselves in defense ministries of all NATO countries like at home as well in NATO itself, our poisons are most dangerous in World and our rockets most fast.

About travel certificates. Here is announced what since January everyone Russian who is vaccinated will have possibility to download own vaccination certificate from whole-country state service site (where we can order and receive many other state service like passports and so on - from insurance to health and law, over 250 services provided by state are in catalogue), looks like it will use blockchain technology.

[StevieWonders]

If I will believe in all they say about Russia, I must to be proud about Russia: we already installed few US presidents, won space competition, Russian hackers feel themselves in defense ministries of all NATO countries like at home as well in NATO itself, our poisons are most dangerous in World and our rockets most fast.You’ve left assassinating journalists inside Russia whose reports annoy Putin off your list of triumphs.

[Nirish guy]

You also forgot the award for being the manufacturer of the most dangerous underwear in the world too !

Although that one I was quietly quite pleased about as if Governments are still going to go about killing people ( that's ALL governments before you start freaking out there Moses) I was quietly please that Russia had (ALLEGEDLY MOSES !!) developed poison built into a guys underwear as THAT is no less that I would expect from a good spy story. That's right up there with the CIA's secret message dead rats in Russia or their exploding cigars plans in Cuba !! ( Well, assuming those stories are all true of of course and aren't just Russian propaganda of course as one cant be too careful about that sort of thing - eh Moses ! :)

[Moses]

Russian TV just announced news about first state-developed drug against COVID. "Tested for safe use, patented. Clinical trial for effectiveness will start today. Kills virus. Expected effectiveness 99%." - quotes from chief of state bio-medical agency Skvortcova.

[StevieWonders]

Russian TV just announced news about first state-developed drug against COVID. "Tested for safe use, patented. Clinical trial for effectiveness will start today. Kills virus. Expected effectiveness 99%." - quotes from chief of state bio-medical agency Skvortcova.Is that the same agency that certified Novichok?

[Moses]

Is that the same agency that certified Novichok?

Why? Do you think what Russia has enough smart guys for to fill one only agency? Well if so, then the same agency should be accused in installation of few US presidents...

[Moses]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/world/europe/russian-vaccine.html

NY TIMES
Why I Got the Russian Vaccine
A New York Times reporter juggled fears engendered by the politicized rollout of the Sputnik V vaccine with the urge to gain protection from the deadly virus.

[StevieWonders]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/world/europe/russian-vaccine.html

NY TIMES
Why I Got the Russian Vaccine
A New York Times reporter juggled fears engendered by the politicized rollout of the Sputnik V vaccine with the urge to gain protection from the deadly virus.An American journalist living in Russia with no alternative vaccines available decides to use the only vaccine to hand. Not really a “Hold the front page” story.

[goji]

Mr Putin has still not taken the Russian vaccine ?

Meanwhile, the head of state of the UK has taken a vaccine, although we don't know which of them.

[StevieWonders]

Mr Putin has still not taken the Russian vaccine ?

Meanwhile, the head of state of the UK has taken a vaccine, although we don't know which of them.
Already covered - https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?21779-World-is-so-stupid

[Moses]

Moscow. 8 weeks of vaccination. From 8K+ per day to less than 2K in 8 weeks.

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[a447]

Just in from the BBC:


Russia's Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine gives around 92% protection against Covid-19, late stage trial results published in The Lancet reveal.
It has also been deemed to be safe - and offered complete protection against hospitalisation and death.

[Moses]

Just in from the BBC:

Yes https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00191-4/fulltext

[StevieWonders]

As I’ve posted on several occasions I’ve never doubted the ability of Russians to develop an effective vaccine. The following article from The New Yorker however while on the whole favourable (the writer ends up getting vaccinated with Sputnik V) does highlight several skirmishes with facts by the Russian team along the way and the role of Russian disinformation generally

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/02/08/the-sputnik-v-vaccine-and-russias-race-to-immunity

The Washington Post’s story is rather more aggressive

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russia-vaccine-sputnik-coronavirus-lancet/2021/02/08/18d8d55c-6571-11eb-bab8-707f8769d785_story.html

[Moses]

Moscow. Feb 10. The lowest number at past 5 months.

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[latintopxxx]

stevie.....both of those failing tabloids have no credibility....the Russian vaccine has proven to be effective...or are u so tribal that just because its NOT from a recognised western pharmaceutical corp it cant be good.....the same corporations that have been ripping off the US public with their p;rocing...put the mafia to shame..

[Moses]

are u so tribal that just because its NOT from a recognised western pharmaceutical corp it cant be good.....


Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi said on Wednesday that he has assured his Canadian counterpart Justin Trudeau that India would do its best to supply Canada with vaccines to fight the pandemic

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-india-canada/modi-assures-canada-that-india-will-strive-to-meet-its-vaccine-needs-idUSKBN2AA2KA

[cdnmatt]

Moscow. Feb 10. The lowest number at past 5 months.

Yes, winter is pretty much over, so it's lower all over the northern hemisphere now. That's to be expected, same as this winter was expected to be brutal since last March.

The vaccine won't start taking affect on the numbers for another couple months at least. And that's for you guys like Russia, UK and Israel who actually have their act together.

[cdnmatt]

the Russian vaccine has proven to be effective...or are u so tribal that just because its NOT from a recognised western pharmaceutical corp it cant be good

He's not saying the vaccine doesn't work. It does, and that's been well proven now with time. He's saying the methodology is shitty, which it is / was.

It's the equivalent of me hammering our a few hundred lines of code, throwing it up on a server, and telling the client it's done. If and when everything works as it's supposed to then it's great, and far more efficient. However, it's pretty well established it's best to take the extra time to write out proper unit tests and test extensively before handing it over to the client. Otherwise, I quickly find myself in a position without any clients.

Same concept here. Russia didn't really bother with testing, at least not extensive testing of modifications made, and jumped right into production. Just because it worked this time doesn't mean we should throw out testing altogether going forward, as that would be stupid.

If you have the time and desire, here's a prime example as to why extensive testing is probably a good idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9_sX93RHOk

[StevieWonders]

stevie.....both of those failing tabloids have no credibility....the Russian vaccine has proven to be effective...or are u so tribal that just because its NOT from a recognised western pharmaceutical corp it cant be good.....the same corporations that have been ripping off the US public with their p;rocing...put the mafia to shame..I’ve given my inner American a good talking to

[latintopxxx]

based on your posts,,,i would give it a good beating with my make up bag...

[Moses]

Yes, winter is pretty much over, so it's lower all over the northern hemisphere now.

Could you please reread school geography book before to pretend to look like a smart guy? Winter is over? Matt, what grade you had in school about geography? It isn't Toronto here. We have 6 months winter in Moscow, snow lays from November till end of April, temperatures below zero in Celsius grade from October till May. Right now we are in the middle of the winter, temperature is -16C outside and at past 24 hours we had most heavy snow since 1973.

[latintopxxx]

...silly matty...when all esle fails he starts tallkng IT....

[Moses]

Same concept here. Russia didn't really bother with testing, at least not extensive testing of modifications made, and jumped right into production. Just because it worked this time doesn't mean we should throw out testing altogether going forward, as that would be stupid.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9_sX93RHOk

I can tell you what is really stupid here: your post. Russia has vector for Sputnik and tested it since 2007. So please write another "smart" idea "why Russian Sputnik V still works and works more effective than Oxford". Or "why Russians made 3 vaccine, Chinese made 3 vaccine, but France failed to make even 1 vaccine (hello Sanofi) and Canada even didn't make attempt or pretend it makes vaccine at all"

[latintopxxx]

the french...lol...only good for one thing

[cdnmatt]

Could you please reread school geography book before to pretend to look like a smart guy? Winter is over? Matt, what grade you had in school about geography? It isn't Toronto here. We have 6 months winter in Moscow, snow lays from November till end of April, temperatures below zero in Celsius grade from October till May. Right now we are in the middle of the winter, temperature is -16C outside and at past 24 hours we had most heavy snow since 1973.

Fine, believe it's all because of the vaccine then...

Or you could just believe what epidemiologists have been saying for well over a year now. Since last spring they've been saying Nov, Dec and Jan will be the most brutal, then it will start dissipating.

Today Canada is only reporting 1139 new cases and 18 deaths, which is about an 8th of what it was a simple month ago. And I can promise you it's not because of Canada's vaccine rollout. and there's still snow all over the ground in Canada too.

[StevieWonders]

Russia has vector for Sputnik and tested it since 2007.What does this mean?

[cdnmatt]

What does this mean?

It means Russia has been experimenting with vector based vaccines for quite a while now. They took an existing one they had, modified it a little for KoVid-19, and put it into production.

Although the unmodified version of the vaccine had been through decent testing, the modified vaccine for Kovid hadn't been yet. That's why in my previous reply to this topic I specifically ensured to mention Russia didn't do extensive testing of modifications, as I knew Moses would get get all hoppity about it.

Same type of thing as Modurna had its vaccine almost immediately developed as they've been researching mRNA based vaccines to cure cancer and other ailments for many years, so knew exactly what to do once the genomic sequencing came in. They still had to wait for phase 3 trials though before getting EUA, whereas Russia didn't worry about it.

[StevieWonders]

It means Russia has been experimenting with vector based vaccines for quite a while now. How is this especially unique?

[cdnmatt]

How is this especially unique?


I watched a documentary on Curiosity Stream recently, but can't quite remember. Basically, both vector and mRNA based vaccines are fairly new in the medical world. They came about around the same time, are quite different from each other, and both have possible great benefits for humanity.

For whatever reason, Russian based researchers leaned towards vector based vaccines, while US based researchers took more of an interest in mRNA vaccines. I can't remember exactly what the differences are, you'll have to do your own research.

Both types of vaccines have been getting researched for quite a while, so when KoVId came about, there was already a really good idea of how to tackle it. This whole "we developed a vaccine in 8 months" is a bit misleading, because it would have never happened if it wasn't for the prior 15+ years of research into vector and mRNA vaccines. Research started to find cures for things such as cancer, diabetes and other ailments, then everyone had to pivot to KoVid.

You'll have to do your own research on vector based vaccines though, as I can't quite remember. Innovation-wise though, they're right up there with mRNA based vaccines.

[Moses]

Fine, believe it's all because of the vaccine then...

Or you could just believe what epidemiologists have been saying for well over a year now. Since last spring they've been saying Nov, Dec and Jan will be the most brutal, then it will start dissipating.


I hope you can count weeks and convert to months. On the picture below is typical flu sickness in Russia on example from 2017/18 year. Peak is 7 and 8 weeks of year, i.e. second part of February. We are now on flu's peak. But COVID's sickness now is already almost 5 times lower than it was on the peak.

10762

[cdnmatt]

Then if it's because of the vaccine, tell me, why have Canada's KoVid numbers dropped off a cliff as well? It's still the middle of the winter here too.

You can't possibly be so hyped up to be patriotic that you're willing to through all rational logic out the window, plus what epedimologists say, and think the past six weeks of a vaccination rollout have had any impact on the KoVid numbers whatsoever. It hasn't, and won't for at least another few months.

You're not even going to notice the vaccination rollout until next winter when you can say, "oh look, there sure are alot less people getting sick this year compared to last winter".

[Moses]

Although the unmodified version of the vaccine had been through decent testing, the modified vaccine for Kovid hadn't been yet. That's why in my previous reply to this topic I specifically ensured to mention Russia didn't do extensive testing of modifications, as I knew Moses would get get all hoppity about it.


About vector vaccine. What do you want to test there? This vector is 10+ years tested. On the base of exactly this vector Russia manufactures vaccines against Ebola, SARS and Zika.

For to fight with COVID they changes attached to vector fragment of SARS to fragment of COVID and got ready vaccine in 2 weeks after sequencing COVID. All what can do any fragment - allergy. The only possible troublemaker - vector - adenovirus itself, but it was tested for 10+ years.

About mRNA. Things what you wrote about mRNA are totally wrong: and pros, and cons. mRNA is "messenger" type of vaccine. It is more new and is far more advanced than vector, Also it is far more dangerous than vector in case of mistake.

In case with vector we give to body live harmless adenovirus with fragment of COVID virus. Our immune system learns both and remembers both, and in case or real COVID virus will arrive into our body late, immune system will attack COVID. It is how vector vaccine works.

In case of mRNA there is no any virus in it: no live, nor died. There is coded by protein molecules instruction to immune system what antibodies should be manufactured in case of the arrival of COVID virus. Just instructions. That why this vaccine also named "messenger vaccine": it delivers message - instruction. Since full instruction is coded "by hands" by collecting proteins into chain, there always is possibility to make mistakes at time of collecting. That why such vaccines should be intensively tested - any wrong piece of code for example may to instruct our body to produce cancer cells or to kill some useful cells.

Since each mRNA code is unique it is not possible to test mRNA chain in advance. Each mRNA vaccine should be tested after coding in full. But as I said in the middle of summer - at time of Sputnik emergency registration: every state will omit full testing and start to use their vaccines. You now may see - I was correct.

[Moses]

Then if it's because of the vaccine, tell me, why have Canada's KoVid numbers dropped off a cliff as well? It's still the middle of the winter here too.

You can't possibly be so hyped up to be patriotic that you're willing to through all rational logic out the window, plus what epedimologists say, and think the past six weeks of a vaccination rollout have had any impact on the KoVid numbers whatsoever. It hasn't, and won't for at least another few months.

You're not even going to notice the vaccination rollout until next winter when you can say, "oh look, there sure are alot less people getting sick this year compared to last winter".

Matt, you are so proud by Western civilization, so your brains are totally busy with this proudness till last brain cell and you have no space for to think. Your conclusions are one by one wrong, but you can't stop and manufacturing even more wrong conclusions.

1. So, it is end of winter or middle of winter in Canada? Because you already made both statements.
2. Could you please to learn how to count, and recount weeks since Dec 4. Because "six weeks" is wrong answer.
3. I don't know what says Canadian "epidemiologists" - does they exists at all? - but I already published (and verbally explained specially for you) picture where peak of flu sickness in Russia lays at the end of February

When you will stop to be so proud of Western fails with vaccines - hello Oxford, hello Sanofi - we can discuss success of Russia and China in vaccines.

[StevieWonders]

About vector vaccine. What do you want to test there? This vector is 10+ years tested. On the base of exactly this vector Russia manufactures vaccines against Ebola, SARS and Zika.Liberal democracies are cautious about mass vaccination with new drugs because if it fails they're likely to be voted out at the next election. Putin has no such constraint and can happily sacrifice as many of his fellow Russians as he likes, with impunity.

[cdnmatt]

About vector vaccine. What do you want to test there? This vector is 10+ years tested.

"vector" isn't a vaccine. It's a methodology to make vaccines.

[Moses]

Liberal democracies are cautious about mass vaccination with new drugs because if it fails they're likely to be voted out at the next election. Putin has no such constraint and can happily sacrifice as many of his fellow Russians as he likes, with impunity.

Well, here is no Zika, SARS or Ebola, so it isn't about mass vaccination here. WHO approved vaccines for to use in Africa.

[Moses]

"vector" isn't a vaccine. It's a methodology to make vaccines.

Oh, sorry, sorry, Matt, for stupid CDC of US.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/viral-vector-vaccine-basics.html

[StevieWonders]

Well, here is no Zika, SARS or Ebola, so it isn't about mass vaccination here. WHO approved vaccines for to use in Africa.But there is COVID-19 and there is Sputnik V which hasn’t passed Western-standard tests - liberal democracies won’t approve it for use on their citizens for the reason I gave.

[Moses]

But there is COVID-19 and there is Sputnik V which hasn’t passed Western-standard tests - liberal democracies won’t approve it for use on their citizens for the reason I gave.

It's funny, but no one vaccine "is passed Western standard tests" yet. About approval we will see in few weeks.

[Moses]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-russia-vaccine/russia-approves-its-third-covid-19-vaccine-covivac-idUSKBN2AK07H

Russia just registered third vaccine - CoviVac. It is "old fashioned" vaccine from inactivated virion without possibility to replicate. Developer - Chumakov institute, known by its polio vaccine.

Large scale trial lasts from September'20.

CoviVac will induce shorter lasting immunity against COVID than Sputnik or Moderna or Oxford. The main advantages of that vaccines are: it should be softer after injection and may be used for 80+ patients, and, most important - it may be injected as many times as need and will work fine every time and each time will boost immunity. It is possible "to renew" immunity every 6 months (for example) and add immunity against new variations.

[StevieWonders]

One thing I read recently, Moses, is Russian advice about avoiding alcohol at vaccination time. Anna Popova from the Russian Federal Service for Surveillance on Human Wellbeing said to quit alcohol 2 weeks before the first vaccination shot and abstain until 3 weeks after the booster shot. Alexander Ginsburg who helped develop Sputnik V said drinking alcohol after getting vaccinated can impair the immune response and could even render the vaccine ineffective

New Scientist magazine 13 February 2021, page 9

[Moses]

One thing I read recently, Moses, is Russian advice about avoiding alcohol at vaccination time. Anna Popova from the Russian Federal Service for Surveillance on Human Wellbeing said to quit alcohol 2 weeks before the first vaccination shot and abstain until 3 weeks after the booster shot. Alexander Ginsburg who helped develop Sputnik V said drinking alcohol after getting vaccinated can impair the immune response and could even render the vaccine ineffective

New Scientist magazine 13 February 2021, page 9

Here are a lot of people who wants to be in news. Everyone tells "something" "from the middle finger". In official leaflet what they give to people and on official sites is noted "24 hours before injection and 72 hours after injection"

[StevieWonders]

Everyone tells "something" "from the middle finger".One encounters it in many places.

[wingnut]

Here are a lot of people who wants to be in news. Everyone tells "something" "from the middle finger". In official leaflet what they give to people and on official sites is noted "24 hours before injection and 72 hours after injection"What does "from the middle finger" mean? Is it a Russian saying? Here showing the middle finger is a sign of disrespect.

[Moses]

What does "from the middle finger" mean? Is it a Russian saying? Here showing the middle finger is a sign of disrespect.

Because middle finger in this figure means penis. That exactly I mean when wrote about source of their news.

[StevieWonders]

Because middle finger in this figure means penis. That exactly I mean when wrote about source of their news.Popova and Ginsburg are cocksuckers?

[Moses]

Popova and Ginsburg are cocksuckers?

Popova is happy to appears in news - she was long time in shadow and need attention. Ginsburg - just use any possibility to marketing Sputnik

[Moses]

CNN report from one of Sputnik manufacturing plant. Journalist took injection.


https://youtu.be/Uy1psrA4I6Y