Flying Nightmare

As anyone with a pulse by now knows, there were 21 arrests in the UK today regarding a terror plot to blow up aircraft in flight between London and the US. Apparently the plot involved liquid explosives in carry-on luggage. Hence carry-ons have been banned. The carriers were all American flag carriers that use Heathrow.

You don't want to be flying for a while. And if you're planning to fly internationally in the near future, here's just one more reason to choose a non-US carrier. This is a notice on the BA website:

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British Airways, along with all other airlines, is experiencing major disruption to its operations at London Heathrow today, Thursday 10 August , because of the severe airport congestion, following the introduction of new security arrangements.

All British Airways shorthaul (UK and European) inbound and outbound flights to and from London Heathrow up until 3pm (BST) this afternoon are cancelled.

Any customers, both longhaul and shorthaul, who do not need to travel to or from London Heathrow today are advised to stay at home.

It is likely that there may be a number of longhaul cancellations from London Heathrow during the day.

British Airways flights at Gatwick and flights operated by the airlineтАЩs regional subsidiary BA Connect, are continuing to operate albeit with delays.

Passengers are advised to check the latest real-time information for your flight (for today and up to 5 days in advance) please click here.

British Airways has put a policy in place which outlines re-booking options and procedures for customers affected by this flight disruption.
To view this policy please click here

Customers due to depart from UK airports who do not wish to travel today or tomorrow or are due to travel on cancelled flights can rebook up until 1 December , 2006 or obtain a refund.

NOTE:
If your flight has been cancelled you may be able to use the online 'Manage My Booking' functionality to change or refund your booking.
Customers with the following types of ticket will not be able to re-book or refund online:

Paper ticket
An exec club redemption ticket
If there are any other carriers in the booking
Tickets with more than 6 passengers
Bookings that include any open sectors
If there is an unaccompanied minor in the booking
If it is a journey involving connecting through an intermediate airport
If you made your booking through a travel agent you will not be able to get a refund online but should contact your travel agent
To access Manage My Booking click here

Customers in the UK can call a special freephone number тАУ 0800 727 800

The traffic situation on all approaching roads to London Heathrow is also extremely congested and any customers thinking of flying from the airport are advised to leave plenty of time for their journeys.


More information

Passengers who do decide to travel from any UK airport, may only take through the airport security search point, the following items:

Travel documents essential for the journey (eg passports, tickets and visas)
Pocket sized wallets and pocket sized purses plus contents (for example money, credit cards and identity cards). Handbags are not permitted.
Prescribed medicines essential for the duration of the flight, except in liquid form unless verified as authentic.
Spectacles and sunglasses, without cases.
Contact lenses, without bottles of solution
For those traveling with an infant: baby food, milk and sanitary items essential for the flight.
Keys (but no electrical key fobs).
Every other item must be carried in customerтАЩs hold luggage.

For clarity, passengers are advised that no electrical or battery powered items including laptops, mobile phones, ipods, remote controls etc can be carried in the cabin and must be checked in as hold baggage.https://lfn.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/lfn.cf ... faqid=2350 (https://lfn.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/lfn.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2350)

You don't want to be flying for a while. And if you're planning to fly internationally in the near future, here's just one more reason to choose a non-US carrier. If only the world were so black and white. On one hand, you'd be giving in to terrorism and giving the terrorists a small victory, and hence encouragement to continue. OTOH, you increase your (selfish?) chances for continued life on this planet.

"...OTOH, you increase your (selfish?) chances for continued life on this planet."

All life is, by design, selfish. But having said that, you're right: it does give the terrorists a victory of sorts if we all choose a non-US flag carrier. Fortunately for me, I'm not faced with that patriotic dilemma this year; I'm already booked on two trips to LOS on a US carrier.

I am so lucky not to have to be using Heathrow anytime soon, it sounds like a mess. What I cannot understand is what's so safe about stuffing all your hand luggage into cargo? Can these devices only be triggered manually, I thought all bombs these days were digital and wireless.

I wouldn't worry if you have already booked your flight out of the US, but I would not fly a US carrier out of the UK right now. I think the attitude of "don't let the terrorists win" stiff upper bowel mentality is misguided. How is that going to help solve the middle East conflict in any-way. No surely it is better now to boycott all US carriers and UK ones too.

Blair is so far up Bushes crusty crack that he can't hear the bells of his own demise. He has steadfastly refused to call for a cease fire in Lebanon. Now this makes him a fool in every-ones eyes, the only influence he has left is trying to direct large chunks of faeces with his hard pressed nose.
But watch him try rallying for support nonetheless, now that the terrorists have made their ugly appearance. You can be sure he will be calling for unity and other such tripe.

Now is a good time to vote with your pinkdollar brother.

[cottmann]

"...OTOH, you increase your (selfish?) chances for continued life on this planet."

All life is, by design, selfish. But having said that, you're right: it does give the terrorists a victory of sorts if we all choose a non-US flag carrier. Fortunately for me, I'm not faced with that patriotic dilemma this year; I'm already booked on two trips to LOS on a US carrier.

Being alive and therefore selfish, I am advocating that all UK and US citizens, as a patriotic duty, be required to fly only on UK and US carriers, thus making the rest of us less likely to be targets of terrorists.

Think again.

This is an old plan going back to the `90's which is part of a bigger plan. For starters; to ruin the economies of all free countries.

The same terrorists have a presence in every free country.

Yesterday they planned to hit the UK & the US. Twenty-five were arrested in England, two more in Pakistan. 'Now, now, not PC to say Pakistan.'

Last week, hardly made the news, 21 were arrested in Canada.

Big news the last couple weeks; Hezbollah v Israel and I hear, 'Oh, those bad old Jews! Firing on innocent women and children!' To hell, as usual, with the men. And are we sure they are innocent? Or of the same ilk as suicide bombers; moved in to be destroyed so the world will tsk-tsk and say, 'Oh, those bad old Jews! Blowing up innocent women and children!'

We know the same people that make up Hezbollah are in place, have a strong presence, in the UK, France and Holland. What if Hezbollah starts firing bombs at The UK or France or the Netherlands from one or both of the other two? Then what would you want your country to do if you are Dutch or French or British and being attacked? Sit still, stiff upper lip, while your people are being killed? Fire back and blow up 'poor innocents'?

The terrorists are targeting all airlines & countries that have or have had a 'presence' in Iraq.
Yesterday 1,000 flights out of Heathrow were canceled. If each plane carried on average 300 people & average ticket was ┬г300? (See where it's going?)
But some cry because they were suddenly thrust into withdrawal over being deprived of their electronic toys. And there was a man who sprayed a whole bottle of Calvin Klein stink water into his luggage rather than waste it. Never mind the waste when he bought the crap. (Meanwhile, I wonder if putting all liquid items in checked baggage is really such a bright idea. Well, at least we'll know where the bombs are?!)
Liquid explosive can be hidden in about anything liquid or semi-liquid, like toothpaste. With extended security, some items made it through; a bottle of water and a couple lipsticks. Lipsticks! Tell a woman she can't have her lipstick! Well!
'And that booth thingie messed up my hair!'
'And I had to remove my thigh-high boots with no where to sit down!'
They only need enough explosive to blow a door-size hole in the side of a plane. (Which may cause another hole opposite the first.)
Maybe the plane will crash in the ocean.
Maybe only eight or nine people will be sucked out to shower red on the countryside (Duh. Should we worry about HIV rain, dude?) and rest of the plane will land. And be out of commission until repairs came be done. At loss of how much revenue?

Not to worry, people are afraid to fly anyway. So they don't fly. And, already hard pressed, some airlines go belly up. At loss of how many jobs and how much revenue? Not to worry, your country can subsidize them. 'Your country,' that's you.
'And there are still trains.' Yeah, right, say the citizens of Madrid.


Don't kill the messenger; this is (part of) 'their' plan.

Now and then, like yesterday, 'we' win a round BUT sounds to me like 'their' plan is working.

Meanwhile, I'll not be booking a cruise on The Freedom of the Seas; may as well fly off to someplace I enjoy.

... Not to worry, people are afraid to fly anyway. So they don't fly. And, already hard pressed, some airlines go belly up. At loss of how many jobs and how much revenue? Not to worry, your country can subsidize them. 'Your country,' that's you. 'And there are still trains.' Yeah, right, say the citizens of Madrid.


Actually, prior to this latest terror plan, passenger numbers have been increasing at approx' 6% a year accross all airlines. The reason many airlines are having problems is that the cost of fuel has increased - why has the cost of fuel increased - the instability in the middle east - why is their instability in the middle east - ask Mr Bush!

Any insinuatiion that anyone who makes statements against Bush or the Israeli current invasion of Lebanon is anti-American or anti-Israel is incorrect. I agree with the right of anyone to defend their borders from attack, if Israel was having a few rockets showered on them, then okay, target the aggressors and get it sorted out - the problem with the current situation is the complete lack of targetting of Hezbollah and the lack of concern for the people of Lebanon. Has Israel's response been 'measured'? To be angered by the dawdling of the American government and the cow towing of the British government (an embarrassment to us Brits) is not anti-American, it's anti Bush. As for the UN, I was a supporter but seeing how it can be manipulated by the US, stalled from taking any action (even stopped from making statements asking for an immediate end to fighting) and be shown to be totally ineffective makes me cringe.

The problem is getting worse though and I am not sure what the solution is. Even if America pulls out of Iraq and Israel has peace with it's neighbours (some hope!), it's probably all too late anyway. The terrorists are getting ever more technical and have ever increasing access to new methods of taking lives. I was watching a discussion on the BBC a few days ago when they were discussing access to nuclear materials and asking would muslim extremists be able to get access to these materials and would they actually set them off. The answer came back as yes in both parts. Unlike in the cold war between the US and the USSR, when there was nuclear stalemate, where one partner would not attack the other for fear of annihilation, the same cannot be said of extremists who have no fear of taking their own lives, as they will be martyrs. And should the worst happen and a US or UK city is 'nuked', is their any chance that the response will be 'measured' and the terrorists targetted - NO, there will be a lesson taught and one or more arab city's will be bombed out of existence.

Until then, take your mind off things and keep on shagging!

Perhaps a bit simple Sirius? It's probably a rather costly hoax or excuse to arrest hundreds of people without trial.
I wonder where all those weapons of mass destruction are? Surely they are still in the hands of the USA and Israel, where they have been all along?

[Aunty]

Actually, prior to this latest terror plan, passenger numbers have been increasing at approx' 6% a year accross all airlines. The reason many airlines are having problems is that the cost of fuel has increased - why has the cost of fuel increased - the instability in the middle east - why is their instability in the middle east - ask Mr Bush! Well actually I think instability in the Middle East is but one of the reasons for the current high price of oil. The other is the strain on the system that a rapidly growing China and India, hungry for energy, are placing on oil production. From what I have read there is no surplus capacity in the world's production of oil and especially refining capacity to make that oil into petrol. Hence the high demand, low supply equaling high price for petrol. The instability in the middle east certainly doesn't help, but this week the biggest cause for the increase in global oil prices was because the largest oil field in Alaska had to be shut down. There just isn't any spare capacity to pick up the slack when that happens.



I was watching a discussion on the BBC a few days ago when they were discussing access to nuclear materials and asking would muslim extremists be able to get access to these materials and would they actually set them off. The answer came back as yes in both parts. Unlike in the cold war between the US and the USSR, when there was nuclear stalemate, where one partner would not attack the other for fear of annihilation, the same cannot be said of extremists who have no fear of taking their own lives, as they will be martyrs. And should the worst happen and a US or UK city is 'nuked', is their any chance that the response will be 'measured' and the terrorists targetted - NO, there will be a lesson taught and one or more arab city's will be bombed out of existence.

You know there's this old military strategy that says it's always better to make the enemy fight on the battlefield of your choosing as it gives you control of them. So wouldn't you agree it makes perfect sense to have the Israelis kill Hezbollah (Iran) in Lebanon and for the Anglo-American alliance to kill Al Qeda in Iraq and Afghanistan, than to have to kill them on the streets of London or Boston? If they want martyrdom give it to them, but give it to them on the battlefield of the West's choosing.

[gearguy]

http://aol.musicnow.com/az/album.jhtml? ... 4&bid=3261 (http://aol.musicnow.com/az/album.jhtml?id=5529744&bid=3261)

No one likes us-I don't know why
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try
But all around, even our old friends put us down
Let's drop the big one and see what happens

We give them money-but are they grateful?
No, they're spiteful and they're hateful
They don't respect us-so let's surprise them
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them

Asia's crowded and Europe's too old
Africa is far too hot
And Canada's too cold
And South America stole our name
Let's drop the big one
There'll be no one left to blame us

We'll save Australia
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo
We'll build an All American amusement park there
They got surfin', too

Boom goes London and boom Paree
More room for you and more room for me
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town
Oh, how peaceful it will be
We'll set everybody free
You'll wear a Japanese kimono
And there'll be Italian shoes for me

They all hate us anyhow
So let's drop the big one now
Let's drop the big one now

Cottman wrote:

"Being alive and therefore selfish, I am advocating that all UK and US citizens, as a patriotic duty, be required to fly only on UK and US carriers, thus making the rest of us less likely to be targets of terrorists."

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It's quite understandable, my dear Cottman, that the concept of patriotism would be a foreign to you. Although the French choose to conveniently forget they'd all be speaking German now if not for British and American forces, your only loyalty seems to be to the Grand Duchy of Cottman.

Cottman wrote:

"Being alive and therefore selfish, I am advocating that all UK and US citizens, as a patriotic duty, be required to fly only on UK and US carriers, thus making the rest of us less likely to be targets of terrorists."

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It's quite understandable, my dear Cottman, that the concept of patriotism would be a foreign to you. Although the French choose to conveniently forget they'd all be speaking German now if not for British and American forces, your only loyalty seems to be to the Grand Duchy of Cottman.

Plus the 22 million Soviets who died of course...

Point well taken. Although they were not involved directly in the liberation of France, the Soviets sustained 10,700,000 military deaths in WWII. And it was fortunate for the French that the Soviets didn't liberate their nation because it could have ended up petitioned off like Germany if they did.

The huge Soviet losses were partly attributed to Stalin's paranoia (he changed commanders more often than he changed his underwear) and the Soviet practice of using troops to clear mine fields.

To be fair, the Canada also deserve mention. For the big picture, consult:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

All who died deserve mention. If we're talking about unsung heroes how about the WWII Indian army? 2 Million strong, every one a volunteer?

I agree. That's why I included the Wikipedia link. I was, however, discussing the liberation of France and only a handful of nations participated in that event.

[cottmann]

Cottman wrote:
"Being alive and therefore selfish, I am advocating that all UK and US citizens, as a patriotic duty, be required to fly only on UK and US carriers, thus making the rest of us less likely to be targets of terrorists."
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It's quite understandable, my dear Cottman, that the concept of patriotism would be a foreign to you. Although the French choose to conveniently forget they'd all be speaking German now if not for British and American forces, your only loyalty seems to be to the Grand Duchy of Cottman.

Maybe because it is Sunday and I slept in, I really do not understand your response, sathorn2. Why would you assume that the concept of patriotism would be foreign to me? If it is because you are assuming that I am French, you are sadly wrong. Like Dr. Johnson, however, I am becoming increasingly sceptical of those who tout patriotism and accuse others of being unpatriotic. And as I am neither British nor American, why should I have any patriotic feelings for either country?

Oh, and while you are touting the saving of Europe from Communism by the US forces, you might want to investigate Operation Keelhaul. That was where US forces rounded up and shipped back to Stalin some 2 million anti-communist Soviet POWs who had fought against the Soviet Union. Stalin, of course, promptly had them shot or worked to death. And you might want to remember that at the time of WWII, Stalin was "Uncle Joe" to Americans!

I'm not suggesting that you're French, although you appear to possess all the necessary characteristics.

I'm saying that you are without loyalty to any flag.

I'm saying that you're self-centered and conceited without cause.

I'm saying that you are without loyalty to any flagThe problem with the American republic is that it is such a dysfunctional society the only thing its citizens have in common is its flag - which is why they get so upset when their flag is burned. Grown-up countries don't need such symbols to be so central to their psyche

It's strange that such a dysfunctional country would have so many people sneaking across its borders to get a job. You'd think they'd stay at home in their grown up countries.

I believe that the Union Jack is just as significant to Brits as the Stars and Stripes are to Americans. Well, maybe not to the Brits who were plotting to blow up US and UK airliners.

[Bob]

The problem with the American republic is that it is such a dysfunctional society the only thing its citizens have in common is its flag - which is why they get so upset when their flag is burned. Grown-up countries don't need such symbols to be so central to their psyche

Quite a load of bullshit, Hom. You ought to know better than to believe the tabloids you pick up at the 7/11.

Problems here and there? Sure. The US society is dysfunctional? Hardly if you compare it with most other countries. While there are right-wing wackos advocating a law and constitutional amendment to ban flag burning, they haven't mustered a majority to support their position even though the Republicans control both the Senate and the House. I don't know anybody who gives a rip if you burn the flag.

I presume you're British (just guessing) but I would never honestly argue that England is a dysfunctional society (although the queenie and goofy prince thing might give me the fodder to do so).

It's strange that such a dysfunctional country would have so many people sneaking across its borders to get a job. You'd think they'd stay at home in their grown up countries.

I believe that the Union Jack is just as significant to Brits as the Stars and Stripes are to Americans. Well, maybe not to the Brits who were plotting to blow up US and UK airliners.

The Union Jack has very little significance in the UK. It comes out for Royal occassions and then gets tucked away nicely. Further, the flag of England (Cross of St George) only seems to appear during major football tournaments and was, for a long time, the symbol of the National Front Party in the UK (neo-nazi's and right wing extremists), it's only just escaping that image. I suppose people may get upset if their flag is burned in the UK, hard to guage really but we do tend to get all patriotic and sentimental over the wrong things back there.

It's interesting though, that Americans seem to hang out the flag at every opportunity, sometimes you see homes with flagpoles where the flag is raised and lowered each day, and we think of them as braggards, show-offs and even xenophobes and yet, when we see the flag everyday and everywhere in LOS, it is nothing more than Thai's showing love for their country. We do need to differentiate between our dislike for the government of the US and our regard for it's people (at least those on the east/west coasts). :cheers:

Very good point fatman, and what an ugly flag it is. I think they used the French model.
Nonetheless, the Thai flag holds very little by way of the same horror which the American one represents. So let it softly waft in any breeze left this time of year. And good riddance to the American one, let it burn. As long as there is oil left in their crap cars let it burn.

I can't believe what a glorious day it is today. Hot without the humidity, blue skies and lazy breezes. Is the wet season finally beginning to wind down? Can we throw open the windows to the exquisite requiem of bird song at last? Or are there doodles still left standing in the fields, awaiting a late harvest?