Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow

[Moses]

Vaccination (Sputnik V) against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow.

City offers free vaccination to everyone who wants + free additional health insurance in exchange to daily temperature measurement and reporting at next 3 months. Limitations: 18+, must live in Moscow, no pregnancy, no cancer, no flu right now and at past 2 weeks, no ready immunity to COVID. 60+ are allowed.

Vaccination will be provided in September for 40000 persons only (besides vaccination of medics and teachers) as a post-registration effectiveness test. City officially announced what vaccine is "totally safe for health".

https://www.mos.ru/city/projects/covid-19/vaccine/ (Rus lang)

[latintopxxx]

...guess we will know within the next month or so if it works...and if it does Pattaya will be flooded with tourists once again...and just in time to escape the northern winter

[goji]

Google Chrome does a very readable translation of the Russian site.

Here's an extract:

"Recruitment of applicants is underway
Become an applicant for a vaccine post-marketing clinical trial. We invite 40,000 people."

Note the use of the word "trial" and the sample size of 40,000 people.
This sounds rather like a phase 3 trial, like those which have been running for other vaccines for a few months.

I presume Mr Putin thinks it will be credible to describe the vaccine as "licensed" for his domestic audience, when all he's done is redefine "licensed" to a pre-phase 3 stage. The educated Russians will mostly see straight through this.
What we're NOT going to see is 10 million people vaccinated in October, as they're going to wait for some results from this trial just like with every other vaccine.

[cdnmatt]

City officially announced what vaccine is "totally safe for health".

I hope nobody actually believes that. This is a phase 3 clinical trial, hence they can't say with confidence that is' safe, because they don't know.

Same bullshit as what the US and China are doing, rushing way too much, and may end up killing 20 million people in the process. I guess just today the CDC sent out urgent letters to all 50 states in the US telling them to ensure they have vaccination distribution centers 100% operational by Nov 1st, even if it requires bypassing some regulations and pre-cautions. What's really troubling about that is two of the vaccine candidates in the US are required to be transported and stored with dry ice at a temperature of -63C (-80F), so no idea how the US govt expects that to happen across all 50 states.

To each their own, but I'm waiting until proper phase 3 clinical trials are completed, the data is publicly available, and enough highly reputable doctors have have given it the green light before I take any vaccine. For example, they rushed a vaccine for the swine flu back in 2009, and a bunch of people ended up paralyzed due to taking it, and they're rushing the KoVid vaccine far more so.

We already have more than enough anti-vaxers (sp) in the world. Last thing we need is to fuck up a KoVid vaccine that gets widely distributed, then tons of people will stop taking all vaccines altogether, then we'll be in a real mess.

[Moses]

I hope nobody actually believes that. This is a phase 3 clinical trial, hence they can't say with confidence that is' safe, because they don't know.

They know for sure - they have this vector since 2016: it is the same vector what been used in their already tested many times vaccine against Ebola. Only vector has influence on safety because it is live virus. Attached to it small part of killed COVID-19 virus can't be dangerous.

[latintopxxx]

cdnmatt...u gotta be living under a rock if u think that the US or any western country is unable to keep "stuff" at -63 degrees and transport it...easy peasy...not even a challenge...

[goji]

They know for sure - they have this vector since 2016: it is the same vector what been used in their already tested many times vaccine against Ebola. Only vector has influence on safety because it is live virus. Attached to it small part of killed COVID-19 virus can't be dangerous.

And yet EVERY covid vector vaccine is having small trial, followed by a large scale phase 3 style trial with tens of thousands of people. That includes the Russian vector vaccine.
The Russian phase 3 trial starts in September, so 3 months later than the UK vector vaccine.

What really counts is when a vaccine reaches the stage where it can be delivered to >> 100 million people in several countries. No vaccine is at that level yet.

[cdnmatt]

cdnmatt...u gotta be living under a rock if u think that the US or any western country is unable to keep "stuff" at -63 degrees and transport it...easy peasy...not even a challenge...

Obviously, they can transport and store items at -63C, but not at that scale. It's not like every clinic out there has a freezer that can store hundreds of thousands of vials with dry ice at -63C.


330 million doses across all 50 states and cities? No, the US doesn't have that capacity.

[bkkguy]

Only vector has influence on safety because it is live virus. Attached to it small part of killed COVID-19 virus can't be dangerous.

your clinical evidence supporting this is?

because most of the studies I have seen from the attempts to develop human vaccines to the original human SARS virus and attempts in the veterinary field to develop vaccines for corona viruses in domesticated animals suggested the possibility of hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV components and other complications in vaccinated individuals when exposed to the virus in the community

and there is no lack of articles in the western medical literature about the disasters that have occurred with the rushed mass production and distribution of vaccines generally

and there is no lack of articles in the western medical literature recently about the possible adverse consequences specifically of rushing a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine, but I am sure you, and/or Putin and I suspect Donald Trump, have access to research and local expert opinion that I in my limited access in the west have no access to

[Moses]

but I am sure you, and/or Putin and I suspect Donald Trump, have access to research and local expert opinion that I in my limited access in the west have no access to

wow... how cheap you are... usually such behavior show rednecks from rural Russian forums... at rural Canadians forums are the same?

about topic: https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-roulette-inside-putins-race-to-develop-a-covid-19-vaccine-before-the-west-11599039001

[bkkguy]

I already have a number of subscriptions to internationally recognised news sources so I don't really want to take out a subscription to the Wall Street Journal just to read the article you have linked to - perhaps you could include one or two quotes from the article that specifically address your comment I queried above

also, I am not sure why you are asking me about rural Canadians forums - I am an Australian currently living in Bangkok posting on a Thailand oriented forum and have no experience of rural Canadians forums, or rural Russian forums for that matter, but I am not unfamiliar with typical "redneck" postings, and if you want to talk about "cheap" who introduced "redneck" into this discussion?

[Nirish guy]

This will please ( and perhaps not surprise Moses) - but maybe will surprise / please / annoy a few others perhaps......

From a study just published by The Lancet - "Russia’s potential coronavirus vaccine shows ‘no serious adverse’ effects and creates antibody response

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/04/russian-coronavirus-vaccine-shows-no-serious-side-effects-lancet-says.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/04/russian-coronavirus-vaccine-shows-no-serious-side-effects-lancet-says.html)

Should be noted that the trial was only on 76 test patients so I guess the real test will be when it's realised to the mass public, but for now it's looking good.

[Nirish guy]

Sorry I should have clarified on my above post - the article was IN the Lancet and it was merely quoting the results "as reported by several Russian Scientists" ( rather than the Lancet having carried out the tests themselves or reporting on that from tests being undertaken in another Country etc.

[goji]

This will please ( and perhaps not surprise Moses) - but maybe will surprise / please / annoy a few others perhaps......

From a study just published by The Lancet - "Russia’s potential coronavirus vaccine shows ‘no serious adverse’ effects and creates antibody response

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/04/russian-coronavirus-vaccine-shows-no-serious-side-effects-lancet-says.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/04/russian-coronavirus-vaccine-shows-no-serious-side-effects-lancet-says.html)

Should be noted that the trial was only on 76 test patients so I guess the real test will be when it's realised to the mass public, but for now it's looking good.

This is not a great surprise, as Mr Putin would hardly be pushing the vaccine if the early phase trial results were poor.

They now need to do a large scale trial, as vaccines affect different people in different ways. That's why the Russians are organizing a phase 3 trial just like everone else who has had good results in the first stage.

I hope this vaccine succeeds.
However, it's just starting phase 3 trials and so far there are already 8 other vaccines at this stage.

[Nirish guy]

Absolutely crazy mind you that the Worlds Governments and scientific bodies dont / can't get together on this to come up with ONE vaccine that WORKS - and yes certainly test run several others at the same time to give themselves a backup position if it doesn't. But to have all these various Countries competing AGAINST each other when they should all be working for the sake of mankind as a whole seems so wrong. But yes of course I'm fully aware that money talks and so it IS a race to the post to gain economic and political advantage etc but still, you'd think for once they could set that aside for the good of the rest of us ( and more importantly for those of use who NEED to travel again before we go stir crazy at home ! ) How very inconsiderate of them ! :)

[Khor tose]

I am positive the Russian vaccine will work. Donald Trump's continued good health is living proof that it works. I am sure that after Donald whispered Covfefe in Putin's ear, he was given a dose, and that explains how this a...... can get away with not wearing a mask.

[latintopxxx]

u all gonna have to apologise to Moses...just saying...

[StevieWonders]

It’s a lengthy article on why the Russian vaccine is probably safe but equally probably won’t work for many of us

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/09/team-behind-the-russian-vaccine-publishes-some-details-of-early-trials/

[goji]

Absolutely crazy mind you that the Worlds Governments and scientific bodies dont / can't get together on this to come up with ONE vaccine that WORKS - and yes certainly test run several others at the same time to give themselves a backup position if it doesn't. But to have all these various Countries competing AGAINST each other when they should all be working for the sake of mankind as a whole seems so wrong.

In most cases, they are not competing and there is an element of cooperation between many countries. Possibly less cooperation when the leaders are Putin and Xi, but otherwise there is cooperation.

Also, given the failure rate for vaccine development, I think it's a damn good idea that there are over a hundered of them under development (or whatever the figure is).

[bkkguy]

In most cases, they are not competing and there is an element of cooperation between many countries. Possibly less cooperation when the leaders are Putin and Xi, but otherwise there is cooperation.

or Trump as he has announced the US will not be joining (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/coronavirus-vaccine-trump/2020/09/01/b44b42be-e965-11ea-bf44-0d31c85838a5_story.html) COVAX, a global initiative aimed at working with vaccine manufacturers to provide countries worldwide equitable access to safe and effective vaccines, once they are licensed and approved (https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/24-08-2020-172-countries-and-multiple-candidate-vaccines-engaged-in-covid-19-vaccine-global-access-facility) - though to be fair "medical experts" don't necessarily all agree that COVAX's policies are the only, or even the best, ways of ensuring the most "equitable" distribution of vaccine doses! though Trump's response seems to be solely based on WHO involvement!


Also, given the failure rate for vaccine development, I think it's a damn good idea that there are over a hundered of them under development (or whatever the figure is).

one of the analogies I have seen is if you desperatly want a pizza delived within a very limited time frame ordering from multiple pizza places is more likely to ensure success - perhaps a bit simplistic because if a pizza from you preferred supplier arrives cold, half cooked or missing most of the toppings it is perhaps salvagable, but more of a problem for a vaccine that turns out to be not effective or causes serious side effects!

[Nirish guy]

Alas that seems not to be the case perhaps .....

“U.S. says it won’t join WHO-linked effort to develop, distribute coronavirus vaccine”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/coronavirus-vaccine-trump/2020/09/01/b44b42be-e965-11ea-bf44-0d31c85838a5_story.html?outputType=amp

[goji]

one of the analogies I have seen is if you desperatly want a pizza delived within a very limited time frame ordering from multiple pizza places is more likely to ensure success

That's a fair analogy, however the probability of a pizza arriving is much higher than the probability of a vaccine succeeding, hence it's even more important to have multiple irons in the fire with the vaccine.

[Moses]

Sticker on the door of pharmacy in Moscow (in Russian): "Welcome to buy vaccine against COVID-19 here". As per local newspapers vaccine is in pharmacies since Monday September 7. I didn't check it myself.

Russian letters ДЗМ on the yellow plate with pharmacy name and working hours shows what this pharmacy is owned by city's departament of health (i.e. it is state owned pharmacy with fixed prices)

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[goji]

So they SELL the vaccine in parallell with running a phase 3 equivalent trial of 40,000 people ?

I suppose whatever Mr Putin wants happens.

[Moses]

So they SELL the vaccine in parallell with running a phase 3 equivalent trial of 40,000 people ?

I suppose whatever Mr Putin wants happens.

Yes. Phase 3 is about effectiveness, not about safety. State here warrants safety since this vector already been tested for 5+ years in SARS and Ebola vaccines. The only exclusions are kids and pregnant - this vector wasn't tested with them. People 60+ are welcome to phase 3 as well. Notes in boxes have words: "Safety: safe, effectiveness: unknown".

I think what in situation when owned by Moscow city manufacturing plant has power to produce 1.5 mln doses per month, they made small bunch of vaccine, but it was bigger than 40.000 for test, so they sell rest of the bunch via state pharmacies with warning "effectiveness unknown".

[StevieWonders]

Criticisms have been made of the interpretation of the data that’s been presented - it doesn’t make sense:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/leahrosenbaum/2020/09/09/international-scientists-skeptical-of-data-in-russian-covid-19-vaccine-trial/

[Moses]

Criticisms have been made of the interpretation of the data that’s been presented - it doesn’t make sense:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/leahrosenbaum/2020/09/09/international-scientists-skeptical-of-data-in-russian-covid-19-vaccine-trial/

Is it about that Lancet? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lancet#Controversies

[arsenal]

"one of the analogies I have seen is if you desperatly want a pizza delived within a very limited time frame ordering from multiple pizza places is more likely to ensure success - perhaps a bit simplistic because if a pizza from you preferred supplier arrives cold, half cooked or missing most of the toppings it is perhaps salvagable, but more of a problem for a vaccine that turns out to be not effective or causes serious side effects!"

At least the pizzas are going in the oven now.

[bkkguy]

Is it about that Lancet? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lancet#Controversies

the paper published in The Lancet was not written by The Lancet, it was written by the actual Russian authors of the study, and the data in the paper was supplied and interpreted by these Russian authors, and it is this data and interpretation that is being questioned in the linked Forbes article

probably the closest match-case "Lancet controversy" from your linked Wikipedia article is the Study on hydroxychloroquine (2020), about a paper published in The Lancet - again not written by The Lancet but written by the actual authors of the study, and the data in the paper was supplied and interpreted by these authors, but after increasing questioning of the quality and relaibility of this data by other reviewers the paper authors, and eventually The Lancet, retracted the paper

I may be missing something obvious here, so perhaps you can explain why you think your linked Wikipedia article supports your case of supporting the Russian study while discrediting The Lancet, or is this just typical of the links you throw out hoping people won't read so they will still be swayed by your claims

if I was going to be "cheap' I would suggest posting these links on facebook or a rural forum in Russia or Canada ...

[Khor tose]

bkkguy,
I am puzzled by Moses' reply. Almost all Journals, not just the Lancet, are published this way. Are the Journals different in Russia or has the training of the FSB fallen to a new low?

[latintopxxx]

I'm amazed at the arrogance of some ....refuse to believe that unless there is "westerrn" involvement or oversight that nothing gpod or reputable can come out of China or Russia.

[Brad the Impala]

I'm amazed at the arrogance of some ....refuse to believe that unless there is "westerrn" involvement or oversight that nothing gpod or reputable can come out of China or Russia.

Individuals and countries establish their credibility or otherwise over years. We trust statements from people or countries or institutions who have demonstrated their integrity over a period of time. I don't particularly trust my own law breaking British government and I certainly don't trust anyone associated with the Trump Government, but there are individuals and organisations in both countries, including some journalists, who have a record of accurate and factual reporting that is confirmed even in hindsight.

It's hard to say the same thing about Russia or China. Remember the Uighurs and the initial reporting of covid in China. Remember the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the shooting down of MH 17. What us, accusations are politically motivated!

You may even have noticed that the history of credibility or otherwise even applies to posters on anonymous forums. Perhaps you have some experience of this so can feel empathy with those who are not believed!

[Moses]

Remember the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the shooting down of MH 17.

1. USA spend almost whole sentury in wars and military conflicts none of which was on US land, none of which was defense, none of which was US busines, and none of which was at next to US country with which US has mutual border. I'm correct?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations

Only at last 50 years:
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2. US withdraw themself from Rome statut and not recognize international criminal court in Haaga because of intervention to Iraq. Now US demands to cancel any researches about roles of US military in Iraq and warning about sanctions to members of court in Haague.

Who are talking about "invasion" of Russians here?

Maybe you would like to talk about NATO member - Turkey - what has now half of Cyprus? Or maybe to talk about Israel and Syrian lands? Or Palestinian lands? Or maybe about Argentina, UK and Falkland Islands?

And about MH17: is it again British "higly likely"? No court decision exists yet.

[Moses]

We trust statements from people or countries or institutions who have demonstrated their integrity over a period of time.

Yes-yes. Oh, yes. Continue please. But please let me show you one photo before. And to remind list of members of invasion without UN decision and mandate: United States, United Kingdom, Australia, Poland, Italy, Netherlands

What about Russia? Russia blocked mandate of UN. Germany and France joined Russia.

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[StevieWonders]

Yet country after country after country lines up willingly to be a friend of the USA. The only countries Russia or China can count as friends are those they have bought or bullied.

[arsenal]

Neither Russia nor China have any friends.

And Moses. Ah Yes, The UN. That august body of high esteem that saw fit to elect Tunisia, Chile, Uganda and Albania on to its Human Rights Comittee. Mmm.

[Moses]

Neither Russia nor China have any friends.


"Friends"? In geopolitic? Well, are we still in kindergarten?

There are no friends in politic, only allies and competitors. Now almost every media in world talking about Russia and China. For me that means what Russia and China are top competitors for many countries now. It is good: competition stimulates progress. Note: nobody talks about Gambia or Latvia - they aren't important in geopolitic.

When some politics starts to talk about "friends" I start to watch their hands more closely - at next step they will try to trick you or to ask for discount (in political meaning) or for something for free.

[Nirish guy]

Maybe we should start a sub forum called Politics for these sorts of discussions ? As it can be a real downer on an already down gay board :-( I might be nice it it were a well run bar here where the two "not to be discussed" topics were religion and politics ( oh and of course the other third most obvious topic on a Thai board which is SO not to be spoken about I wont be mention it ! :)

Dont get me wrong too it is interesting sometimes reading all the differing views and basically reading us in the West saying Russia and China and "at it" and Moses then replying with "HA, you think we're bad, look at yourselves!" - and then both parties going on to throw a bit of mud to back that up. It is interesting though as it does show how we are ALL programmed to think our own Countries are basically the best / right etc, when in reality NONE of them are probably that great and all equally as bad as each other in various ways.

[bkkguy]

Who are talking about "invasion" of Russians here?

I assume you are not trying to claim that Russia didn't invade Ukraine and it is all a conspiracy spread by interfering westerners, so
I am not sure I am following the point you are trying to make here -

- a biblical "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

- some other countries have done bad things as well, so this negates Russia's "badness" in invading Ukraine

[arsenal]

For some light relief and as tthe permanent tension here mirrors that in the real world may I recommend the following films.

The Journey.
A fictionalized journey taken together by Ian Paisley and Martin Mcguinness. Funny and brutal it pulls no punches for either side. A superbly comic portrayal of Tony Blair, part buffoon and part arch schemer. The accents might be hard for some of you to follow..

The Death of Stalin
Armando Iannucci's blisteringly funny satire set during the days after genial Uncle Joe drops dead. Stand out performances throughout it's a glorious ride through the pure paranoia of dictatorship.

[dinagam]

Let's get back to the serious aspect of the vaccine trials...

[Nirish guy]

And equally re "the Journey" just how GOOD Timothy Spall was as Paisley. The guy just nails every part he takes on it seems.

[arsenal]

He's something of a bio specialist having portrayed Paisley, Albert Pierrepoint, Churchill, Peter Taylor, and more recently L.S. Lowry.

[Moses]

Let's get back to the serious aspect of the vaccine trials...

It sounds funny :) And this is true: most of state officials got vaccination already. Moscow mayor Sobianin and his vices took vaccination as well. Even daughter of Putin took it.

Also it wasn't announced officially about Putin himself, but Putin started to appears on public without mask since about July 15.

[Moses]

I assume you are not trying to claim that Russia didn't invade Ukraine and it is all a conspiracy spread by interfering westerners,

I will tell exactly that: Russia never invaded Ukraine at this century. Never.

Russia took Crimea. It is true. But invasion means arriving of military to country. Correct? Well, then there never was invasion because Russian military were located in Crimea since 1991 by mutual agreement when USSR was divided to 15 countries. Russia kept military bases on Crimean peninsula since then - it was part of agreement.

And for the records: Crimea was part Russia of since 18 century (since victory in war btw Turkey and Russia) and till 1917 and then part of Russian Federation till 1962 , then this guy who made Caribbean crisis (Khruschev) moved it to Ukrainian Republic within USSR. Khruschev was Ukrainian. Next Secretary General of CP - Brezhnev was also Ukrainian and he kept Crimea within Ukrainian Republic. All it was just some political games. Nobody worried about that at past - both republic were part of USSR.

But when USSR fell apart it appears important - Russia had fleet there - on Black sea. SO Russia used fact what 80% of population are Russian by language and ethnicity in Crimea and made a lot of efforts in propaganda. When nationalists in Kiyev got power after Maidan in 2014, Crimean parliament declared independence by law - Crimea is autonomous republic. And Russian troops kept peace till referendum in Crimea - where 86% of population voted to join Russia.

So technically Russia never invaded Ukraine.

[cdnmatt]

Well, if this thread has proven anything it's that there's quite the similarities between Putin and Trump supporters.

Both Putin and Trump are absolutely amazing leaders who do no wrong, and are here to save us from certain destruction with the evil plots from the leftist liberals, and anyone who dares say otherwise is just a leftist hack who is incapable of thinking for themselves, and just believes that fake lame stream media.

[StevieWonders]

The Death of Stalin
Armando Iannucci's blisteringly funny satire set during the days after genial Uncle Joe drops dead. Stand out performances throughout it's a glorious ride through the pure paranoia of dictatorship.
In the context of this thread, a great choice. I’ve just finished watching it for the second time. Along with the television series McMafia it encapsulates my thinking about Russia

[TaoR]

The Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership that existed between Russia and the Ukraine, basically, "which fixed the principle of strategic partnership, the recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity and mutual commitment not to use its territory to harm the security of each other."

So the bases and the naval yards were part of this agreement which also took into account the Russian population in Crimera and Russia broke the treaty.

Plain and simple.....

[latintopxxx]

so you are telling me that a people who dont feel comfortable under a certain government are not allowed to secede or join another government?? So Scotland HAS to remain British forever...opr Catalonia HAS to remain Spanish forever??

[StevieWonders]

"Friends"? In geopolitic? Well, are we still in kindergarten?

There are no friends in politic, only allies and competitors.This sort of headline must be devastating news for you then: “Once an American foe, now a friend: OPEC turns 60”
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[goji]

So technically Russia never invaded Ukraine.

Technically, I would suggest Russia did invade the Crimea. However, as you say, the Crimea was traditionally part of Russia until Kruschev reassigned it to Ukraine, when Ukraine was still part of the USSR. That mistake was not corrected when the USSR broke up & the majority of the Crimean population want to be part of Russia.

I see Russia has some local elections now. I wonder if that's why Putin is so keen to make it look like Russia is leading the way with vaccine licensing ? When in reality he's just made it available before the phase 3 trial.

[Moses]

I see Russia has some local elections now. I wonder if that's why Putin is so keen to make it look like Russia is leading the way with vaccine licensing ? When in reality he's just made it available before the phase 3 trial.

No. For sure no. Here elections are going every year at the second Sunday of September. All: local (municipal), town/city (mayors and councils) , regional (oblast') and republican parliaments and governors (86 in total).

Putin himself does not support any of them (at least not does it openly). He is caring only about his approving rate, which is historically low, but still is above 50% (after Crimea it was >80%). He lost a lot because of unpopular pension reforms., but his rating is still above 50% because of peoples income: at time of Putin (at past 20 years) average personal income here grew over 4 time. Here is popular proverb, direct translation from Russian: "Refrigerators are still voting for Putin" (means full stocked with food refrigerators at homes, they were empty just 20 years ago, and people still remember it).

[goji]

his rating is still above 50% because of peoples income: at time of Putin (at past 20 years) average personal income here grew over 4 time. Here is popular proverb, direct translation from Russian: "Refrigerators are still voting for Putin" (means full stocked with food refrigerators at homes, they were empty just 20 years ago, and people still remember it).
After 70 years of communism and a few years of incompetence, any competent capitalist should have been capable of getting a large increase in wealth. Particularly when starting with a reasonably well educated population.

[Moses]

10 days of trial in Moscow. Vaccinated 31000 (rest have placebo). The only side effect - 14% had headache and temperature 37.5C at the next day after vaccination.

[StevieWonders]

10 days of trial in Moscow. Vaccinated 31000 (rest have placebo). The only side effect - 14% had headache and temperature 37.5C at the next day after vaccination.A true “double blind” trial that lasted only 10 days? How many of those on the placebo reported side effects?

[Moses]

A true “double blind” trial that lasted only 10 days?

No. It is just 10 days. If you forgot: Sputnik V is 2-steps vaccine. After 10 days more they will have next injection. Then they will be under control for 3 or 6 month more.

[goji]

No. It is just 10 days. If you forgot: Sputnik V is 2-steps vaccine. After 10 days more they will have next injection. Then they will be under control for 3 or 6 month more.

This is simply in the early stages of the Phase 3 trial. Just like several other vaccines.
Except it's also for sale, despite the Phase 3 trial that is normally required to demonstrate safety not being completed. Mr Putin does things differently.

[Moses]

This is simply in the early stages of the Phase 3 trial. Just like several other vaccines.
Except it's also for sale, despite the Phase 3 trial that is normally required to demonstrate safety

No. Phase 3 is for to demonstrate effectiveness. Safety: phase 1 - animals and phase 2 - humans. What "safety" they can test for vector what is tested and used more than 6 years already in Russian vaccines against Ebola and SARS?

>>>>>>>Except it's also for sale

It isn't Putin's business. It is Moscow governor (mayor) Sobianin. As New-York city in US Moscow is "city-state" - governor here is quite independent from state and president. Moscow city's yearly budget is bigger than budget of Philippines or Qatar or Pakistan.

[goji]

What "safety" they can test for vector what is tested and used more than 6 years already in Russian vaccines against Ebola and SARS?
The vector is MODIFIED. So the modification could modify the results. Even if there is some hypothesis that suggests the modification is harmless, the hypothesis could be wrong.
So it's normal to prove it with a large trial to prove both the effectiveness AND the safety. Or that's how I interpret it from reading about various vaccines, including the Oxford one which is also a vector vaccine, using a modified adenovirus.

In most safety critical technical fields, unless there is 100% certainty in the theory, you test. I'm NOT claiming any medical expertise, but I do have experience of safety critical product development.

[Moses]

The vector is MODIFIED.

No. It is the same vector. Modification is in attachment: instead of small part of RNA Ebola or SARS viruses now small part of RNA of COVID-19 is attached. Such attachments are safe, any problem are limited to allergy only, because such small cuts from RNA are harmless. It is why vector method is going to be more and more popular in medicine.

Yes about Oxford. The difference of Sputnik V and Oxford is: Gamaleya already had ready modified and tested (5+ years for sure) adenovirus at time when they started to make vaccine, Oxford made vector "from the scratch" and have to prove its safety.

Gamaleya's problem now is to prove what they made correct cut from RNA and this part of RNA exists in all mutations of COVID-19, because vaccine will be effective only against mutations where such sample exists in RNA code. Also they need proof what in all cases level of antibodies generated by our immune system as a responce to vaccination will be high enough for to protect us from real virus, and also they need proof what such level will be high enough at least 1-2 years.