Moral Dilemma

[arsenal]

It's been a while since we've had a right good old ding dong here. The timeframe to tourists in Thailand was small beer.

The scenario.
So there's a vaccine. It's good and everyone agrees it works. Get vaccinated and all travel restrictions are lifted. Whoopee.

However. The vaccine was forcibly tested on convicted prisoners as well as incarcerated nations such as the Uyghur in Xinjiang Province. There is no absolute proof but the UN issues a statement saying the tests included children. An alternative vaccine is many many months away. It's available now and it's free.

You going to get it?

[goji]

In order to trust the product, I'd want to see a double blind trial carried out independently in a nation where bribery is not common.

Most of us buy cheap manufactured goods from certain countries with dubious human rights practices.

[latintopxxx]

i really dont care if it was tested on a bus load of lusty pregnant virgin nuns....if it works then i want it...

[arsenal]

Goji. Sorry but you've missed the point.of my post. It's a moral question, the science is unimportant.

And latin. Me too.

[dinagam]

It is absolutely immoral to use developing foetuses in your vaccine trials irrespective of the virtue or status of the mothers...

[goji]

Goji. Sorry but you've missed the point.of my post. It's a moral question, the science is unimportant.

I've deliberately avoided the point of your post. However, if the vaccine also passed my required independent tests, it follows that no one is likely to have been harmed significantly in the original "hypothetical" enforced testing. So there wouldn't be much of a moral issue.
If you only had the enforced testing, well I would reject it for not trusting the testing, before we even get to the moral issues.
I'm also not that fussy about the rights of prisoners who are correctly convicted and are in prison for severe offences. However, of course when they shouldn't be in prison in the first place, that's another matter.

Finally, when a government represses a religion, for balance, it's fair to also consider that the religion may have been forced upon young people, whether they like it or not.
For example: I had to attend a religious assembly at school in the UK, as it was a legal requirement and for all I know, may still be. If the people behind this were to be jailed for a couple of months, it would only balance up the fraction of my life totally wasted on enforced religion.
There are other ways in which religion is forced upon people. In some parts of the world, I believe apostasy can be punished. I'm not going to defend the rights of people to force religion onto others.

[arsenal]

Interesting answers from both goji and dinagam. Throughout history medicine has advanced using some extremely morally questionable methods. Think grave robbers, Nazi concentration camps, stolen body parts, bodies used in car safety tests, experiments on American servicemen etc.

[colmx]

experiments on American servicemen etc.

Don't forget NASA astronaut Steve Austin, they spent $6 million experimenting on him

[a447]

You going to get it?

My immediate response to that question was a firm "NO! NEVER!"

But if that situation really did arise (and I believe it's very possible), would I be able to hold on to the high moral ground? I would hope so but I'm not 100% sure at present, as the desire to get on a plane is overwhelming and that desire just gets stronger every day.

So for me that's an impossible question to answer.

Best I remain mute on this.

[arsenal]

In the absence of a firm 'No.' I'm assuming that like Latin and I, you'd get the vaccine.

[a447]

In the absence of a firm 'No.' I'm assuming that like Latin and I, you'd get the vaccine.

Well, there's no firm 'Yes', either.

But to be honest I don't think I could resist the opportunity if it were offered to me.

I'll have to wait until that situation arises.

[Nirish guy]

Id like to THINK I'd say no thanks to the vaccine ........but.....in reality I guess I'd end up standing in the queue with everyone else with my sleeve rolled up, talking about how terrible it was that they have to test that on others etc first, whilst scrolling through sky scanner as I complained about that with my other hand !

To be fair I could ease the moral problem slightly as rather than use the people mentioned as I'm get older I find I'm keeping a seemingly ever growing list of cunts who I'd happily see all sorts of nasty things happen to if it eases my existence - or in fact even if it had no baring whatsoever on my daily life but just as they were, as I said - cunts ! :)

[latintopxxx]

[rude comment deleted - ChristianPFC]

[Nirish guy]

Speak for yourself ! I was personally delivered to my mum whilst being cradled in the wing of an angel, I know that as my mother told me so it MUST be true !!! :-) Just the same as I'm a Handsum man - see, women never lie, you can always rely on them for 100% truth always it seems ! :)

[latintopxxx]

[rude comment deleted - ChristianPFC]

[Nirish guy]

my what a charming bloke you are......

[gerefan2]

[rude comment deleted - ChristianPFC]

[rude comment deleted - ChristianPFC]

[a447]

Gentlemen, please!!

Can we temper the language a little? Do you really need to get down in the gutter?

[gerefan2]

[rude comment deleted - ChristianPFC]

How can any reply to Latinpox possibly be considered “rude”?,!

[bkkguy]

The scenario.
So there's a vaccine. It's good and everyone agrees it works. Get vaccinated and all travel restrictions are lifted. Whoopee.

However. The vaccine was forcibly tested on convicted prisoners as well as incarcerated nations such as the Uyghur in Xinjiang Province. There is no absolute proof but the UN issues a statement saying the tests included children. An alternative vaccine is many many months away. It's available now and it's free.

You going to get it?

not to steal arsenal's thunder, but back in the real world, there is no need to invent a theoretical moral dilemma, at least for some:

Foetal cells are used to make the Oxford coronavirus vaccine (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-28/oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-ethical-religious-foetal-cell/12592800):

Developers at Oxford University and pharmaceutical firm AstraZeneca are using cell lines from an electively aborted foetus in the vaccine candidate, with Anglican, Catholic and Greek Orthodox leaders questioning the practice.

are you going to get it, or have we all here outgrown our religious convictions?

[a447]

with Anglican, Catholic and Greek Orthodox leaders questioning the practice.

Perhaps they should question why their God gave us the virus in the first place before they question our attempts to combat it.

[goji]

are you going to get it, or have we all here outgrown our religious convictions?

The only religious conviction I've ever had is that religion is a major hazard to the planet and is to be avoided at all costs. Anglican, Catholic & Greek Orthodox leaders ought to naff off and mind their own business.

[Khor tose]

Jesus H. Christ---What moral dilemma?
Provided it is safe, Vaccines are not morally bad, any more then cars, houses, buildings, drugs, alcohol, or h bombs and guns.

Hope I am first in line for the vaccine and I will then support every and all punishment for those involved in its unethical development.

[latintopxxx]

guys lets not joke about this...the depravity of the whole situation is beyond belief...after killing our children we use their carcasses for experiments...no horror movie has been made that equals this..

[arsenal]

It's Primarkadia. The mythical land that exists in people's heads until the very moment it doesn't and then they pretend to be shocked and angry.

Primark. A shirt for £3, a coat for £9, a pair of shorts for £4. Excellent value indeed.

'Whaddya mean these garments ate made by children in Bangladesh for $2 a week. That's disgusting, I had no idea.'

[latintopxxx]

....i think there is a huge gap u could sail then titanic though between primark pricing and killing babies for medical experiments...maybe the bangladesh government needs to do something to help its own people.....do something besides stealing the government funds ....or is it the western worlds fault again...

[arsenal]

Latin into meltdown. The boards current unmissable soap opera.