When The Smoke Clears

[Manforallseasons]

Many are questioning their return but what will they return to? I believe tourism is likely to return in 2021 this has and will continue to have a huge affect on all businesses and more so in a city like Pattaya that survives on the entertainment industry.
Gay tourism has been in decline for years and when tourists return I suspect they will be returning to a place which has greatly changed. The economic devastation will leave standing only the places that financially can hold on till such a time. My view is that whatever gay venues in and around Sunee will all but disappear, Boystown’s longevity is very much in question and the only gay area left standing will be the complex.

[goji]

The latest in a sequence of MFAS posts. Again carefully designed to counter any positivity that might be breaking out here.

I reckon Sunee will continue it's slow decline. Boyztown and Jomtien will be close to previous levels by December 2021. The phone apps will still work. Nothing to worry about.

On the other hand, some expats are convinced Pattaya is already doing just fine without tourists. That's something I really cannot envisage.

[Manforallseasons]

On the other hand, some expats are convinced Pattaya is already doing just fine without tourists. That's something I really cannot envisage.

Obviously, there are pros and cons having Pattaya devoid of tourists. The biggest con is to see the effect this has on practically every business in town and how that effects the owners and employees. The expat community here is not large enough to support businesses in general including the gay venues, the longer tourists are banned the more businesses will fold including gay venues. Pros include much less traffic on the roads particularly nice has been the lack of hordes of Chinese tour buses. The malls are not crowded and many stores and eateries offer discounts. If you are into the apps (I am not) there is no shortage of working boys, the bars and Gogo bars in particular are lacking boys however, in the complex a few bars are well supplied. At the moment the complex is never full and those there are expats seldom below 65 and appear more interested in socializing among themselves, it is very rare to see any boys offed. The message places are very quiet but some have an interesting assortment and this is where I do my shopping.The biggest pro is the country’s handling of the Covid crisis!

[Zebedee]

The latest in a sequence of MFAS posts. Again carefully designed to counter any positivity that might be breaking out here.

It's as if there is No End In Sight to Beating the Dead Horse! LOL

[francois]

MFAS's posts may be unpalatable to some, but they do represent an accurate assessment of the current and possibly future status of Pattaya.

[Zebedee]

It is a very sensitive issue for us guys not in Thailand ( for some more than others), there are posters who miss their boyfriends terribly and others just want the boys terribly ! On the other hand the expats have it all at the moment, and long for nothing. Things have got a little heated at times on these series of threads, as it's become a "cause" for some. I guess it's pointless at this stage to suggest the expats should have shown a lot more sensitivity when presenting their case, and the tourists should not have gone overboard by suggesting unrealistic dates for a return to Thailand. These attitudes have led to a clash.
As far as I'm concerned the truth and accuracy on the status of the Virus / Vaccines must not be sugar coated, facts are the main issue, and I am one that is outside of Thailand and wish I was there.
It's emotions that are now driving these threads, but the virus is our real "enemy" , there are *no good and bad fairies here. Lol

* Snotface #8 dead horse

[Manforallseasons]

https://www.pattayamail.com/featured/pattaya-will-survive-the-coronavirus-pandemonium-for-a-very-obvious-reason-310723

[Nirish guy]

Good to see one thing confirmed without doubt now at last mind and that it that without the two week millionaires flying in Pattaya wouldn't HAVE a gay night life to speak of in the first place as you'd think to hear some expats it was them keeping that scene alive and visiting gays were merely a distraction / annoyance who cause prices to go up and boys to be less available for them perhaps.

PS - You're welcome. :-)

[Dodger]

I met an elderly Australian gentlemen named Ian who had been visiting Pattaya regularly since the early 1960's who mesmerized me with his recollections of how Gay Pattaya first got its start.

It was my very first visit to the gay scene in Thailand in 1997, and I met Ian at the bar in CopaBanana (now Panorama Pub). I remember the stories he told me like it was yesterday. According to his recollection, the first bar where gay freelancers first appeared in Pattaya was at a small nameless hut (hidden in the shadows) somewhere near the end of Bali Hi Pier. There were no gay bars or gay venues in Pattaya when he first arrived, and the area where Boyztown and Pattayaland are now was covered by tall weeds and rice paddies.

The way Ian described the emergence of the gay scene was similar to a bomb explosion. In his words, once one gay venue opened near, what is now Boyztown, others followed suit in immediate and rapid succession, and, in the blink-of-an-eye, Pattayaland sois 1-3, Boyztown, and Sunee Plaza were born and servicing customers from all around the world. He went on the say that the first gay bar was Gentleman's Club, followed by Cockpit in Boyztown and Crazy Pub and Sportman's Bar in Sunee. .

Up until then, the scene in Pattaya catered exclusively to GI's and str8 sex tourists. Once the demand for Gay sex was recognized, the rest is history. Pattaya would soon be dubbed the "Extreme City" (where anything goes), and Thailand dubbed the sex capitol of the world. This visibility and recognition of the gay scenes in Pattaya gained during this phenomenon, became it's brand, and I for one don't see an eraser big enough to erase it. I'm sure if Ian were still alive he would agree.

We all know that businesses are suffering now...everywhere. Businesses are closing...candles are dimming...depression and a sense of doom linger in the minds of everyone, but I don't see the gay scene in Pattaya lacking in desire, the wherewithal, or the demand when these travel bans are lifted, to re-ignite itself.

The 2 barber shops where I live are both closed right now due to this pandemic. Maybe the same ones will reopen, maybe they won't, but one things for sure, I won't be destined to walk around like the guy on the front cover of Aqualung...because they'll reopen soon enough. If not, others will open to take their place.

[francois]

On the other hand the expats have it all at the moment, and long for nothing.


Au contraire, Zebedee! Myself and others I know, who are in Thailand, long for the companionship of our fellow friends and compatriots.
Likewise we yearn for the return of the gay scene as it had been.
We have little of once was and long for everything as in days past.

[Brad the Impala]

According to his recollection, the first bar where gay freelancers first appeared in Pattaya was at a small nameless hut (hidden in the shadows) somewhere near the end of Bali Hi Pier. There were no gay bars or gay venues in Pattaya when he first arrived, and the area where Boyztown and Pattayaland are now was covered by tall weeds and rice paddies.


This is also my impression. That first bar down the far end of Walking Street, after the Siam Bayshore hotel, was a rather odd hexagonal shape and may have been originally intended to be a facility for the swimming pool which it was beside. The swimming pool itself was to service some wooden bungalows that were on the hillside above.

I have blamed my memory for not being able to recall a name for this bar, so am reassured to hear that it had no name! It was there in the early/mid seventies.

[arsenal]

"On the other hand the expats have it all at the moment, and long for nothing."

Really! Of the Pattaya/BK expats posting here only Dodger seems sanguine with the others veering between mild depression and full on hysteria.

[Smiles]

From Arsenal: Of the Pattaya/BK expats posting here only Dodger seems sanguine with the others veering between mild depression and full on hysteria.I beg to differ, bitch. I carry tons of sanguineosity around with me and my Prada shoulder bag, and use it when necessary.

[arsenal]

Smiles wrote..
"I beg to differ, bitch. I carry tons of sanguineosity around with me and my Prada shoulder bag, and use it when necessary."

LOL. Brilliant. Might I recommend The Birdcage starring Robin Williams, Nathan Lane and Gene Hackman. Rewatched recently it's fabulous.

[Zebedee]

On the other hand the expats have it all at the moment, and long for nothing.



Au contraire, Zebedee! Myself and others I know, who are in Thailand, long for the companionship of our fellow friends and compatriots.
Likewise we yearn for the return of the gay scene as it had been.
We have little of once was and long for everything as in days past.

Assuming you're not having a laugh francois, you have sex on tap compared to us outside of Thailand and you complain about the "good old days"? Pleaseeee!!!

[francois]

Assuming you're not having a laugh francois, you have sex on tap compared to us outside of Thailand and you complain about the "good old days"? Pleaseeee!!!

I am telling it like it is, Zebedee, not as it was. I truly wish that you and all the other tourists, expats, etc, could return and liven up the scene here, which at present is depressing in many ways.

[Dodger]

I drove through Jomtien Complex again this morning, and with the new titanic roof installed, it appears as if JC is positioning itself to become the next leading gay area in Pattaya. Now, if they would just enclose a few of the bars...get the staff off their asses (preferably wearing thongs)...get some sort of dim-light action going on with a good dose of sleaze, they would have a winning ticket.. Where is Monty when you need him.

No doubt...the scene in Pattaya will still be alive. Fewer bars...most likely.., but more opportunities for "Boy Fun' than you can shake your somewhat rusty stick at I'm sure. Bring your pocketbooks...the Boys will bend over backwards to please you (meant literally), because right now they're stuck with the expats who could rub the head off a nickle.

[francois]

Bring your pocketbooks...the Boys will bend over backwards to please you (meant literally), because right now they're stuck with the expats who could rub the head off a nickle.

Not quite sure what you are suggesting by that metaphor?

[bkkguy]

Might I recommend The Birdcage starring Robin Williams, Nathan Lane and Gene Hackman. Rewatched recently it's fabulous.
as much as I have enjoyed The Birdcage, I'll take Saint-Tropez over South Miami Beach any day and the Europeans did this high camp farce so much better almost 20 years earlier in La Cage aux Folles (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077288/) - the film, I can't comment on any of the international stage productions

[Dodger]

Not quite sure what you are suggesting by that metaphor?

"Rub the head off a nickle" is Chicago slang for..."Conservative Spenders" (put mildly)

Most (not all) retired expats spend much less money at nightly entertainment venues than those on holiday, which is understandable.

Then there are those who spend their budgeted "entertainment money" on boys they meet on the apps versus at the gay venues. The "apps" have been hurting gay businesses as much as the virus.

One thing that will continue to confuse me from here till eternity, is why a farang would travel thousands of miles for Holiday in Gay Thailand, and then the minute he arrives - become glued to the screen on his smart phone whilst cruising the dating apps. Go figure! I mean, if all a person wants to do is hook-up for a sex date, he can do that in his home country, unless he lives on an iceberg up in Antarctica.

I know one guy from England who comes here twice a year for holiday...rents a room in the heart of Boyztown (Ambiance) ...with bars and boys at his fingertips...who only leaves his room for meals which are served on the lower level. I'm not talking about a few days here...I'm talking about his 6 week stay...simply amazing.

So in reality, the gay scenes over here, which rely on customers, have 3 things working against them: Budget conscious expats, on-line dating apps, and of course the current pandemic.

[Marc K]

Not quite sure what you are suggesting by that metaphor?

François, mon cher, I thought the meaning was perfectly clear. Does one have to spell it out more precisely? Okay, let's try: C-H-E-A-P (no offense meant)

[Zebedee]

Bring your pocketbooks...the Boys will bend over backwards to please you (meant literally), because right now they're stuck with the expats who could rub the head off a nickle.

Whereas, because of the pandemic, the stay a home tourists are furiously "rubbing one out" !




Expats v Tourists always rubbing each other up the wrong way.

[francois]

"Rub the head off a nickle" is Chicago slang for..."Conservative Spenders" (put mildly)

So in reality, the gay scenes over here, which rely on customers, have 3 things working against them: Budget conscious expats, on-line dating apps, and of course the current pandemic.

Dodger, I am guessing you do include yourself among the "budget conscious" expats? Fact is, there is a range of wealth among those expats who are now in Thailand, ranging from low to high. Yet we are keeping the gay scene alive to the best of our abilities so that when the high rolling tourists do return there will be a gay scene for them to enjoy.
Referring to expats in a negative manner, even demeaning them, as one poster did by calling them C-H-E-A-P, serves no useful purpose.

[dinagam]

Referring to expats in a negative manner, even demeaning them, as one poster did by calling them C-H-E-A-P, serves no useful purpose.

In extreme cases this falls under the category of being pathologically parsimonious.

[Dodger]

Referring to expats in a negative manner, even demeaning them, as one poster did by calling them C-H-E-A-P, serves no useful purpose.

Oh...now I see what you're getting at.

My comments were not intended as a metaphor, nor were they an insinuation...they were simply fact.

The point I was making was crystal clear: I stated that most expats (not all) spend less on nightly entertainment venues than tourists...ending the sentence with...WHICH IS UNDERSTANDABLE. This fact is common knowledge, and in the event you want clarification on this, just ask any bar owner.

As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter how wealthy a farang is, it's how generous he is with his money he has. I've observed millionaires discussing the amount to tip a boy for his services before the services were even rendered...like he's in some kind of high-stakes mega real estate negotiation for Christ's sake. On-the-other-hand, I've seen blue collar workers with much slimmer wallets spend every penny they had at the gay scenes, and often tip much better in the process. It's a mixed bag.

[Dodger]

Dodger, I am guessing you do include yourself among the "budget conscious" expats? .

Oops, sorry francois, you guessed wrong.

The only thing I remain conscious of is enjoying my life to the max...always been that way....no regrets...and with the money I've donated to the gay scene in Pattaya you could buy a small fleet of airplanes.

My partner does the "budget conscious" stuff...God bless him!

[goji]

The point I was making was crystal clear: I stated that most expats (not all) spend less on nightly entertainment venues than tourists...ending the sentence with...WHICH IS UNDERSTANDABLE.

I'd be exactly the same.

If I were only allowed 2 weeks in Thailand, I'd be splashing out at all the best gogo bars, as the budget would be set for a fortnight of debauchery and 50 weeks back home, with no gogo bars. No matter what I spend per week, it's only multiplied by 2.
If I were living there 52 weeks a year, the money needs to be spread out more.

[My actual holiday duration normally falls between the two numbers].

[latintopxxx]

dodger.....u silly boy...when negotiating with a mb its not a question of money...its a question of control...get it??

[francois]

\
The only thing I remain conscious of is enjoying my life to the max...always been that way....no regrets...and with the money I've donated to the gay scene in Pattaya you could buy a small fleet of airplanes.


Indeed Dodger, you are a generous man! Considering the least expensive airplane (other than model airplanes) cost $20,000, even a small fleet of just 2 planes would cost $40,000+. Or was that just another metaphor to be taken figuratively? :devilsh:

[dinagam]

One shouldn't try to chase a metaphor until the end...
The outcome can be altogether beyond one's comprehension.

[Dodger]

dodger.....u silly boy...when negotiating with a mb its not a question of money...its a question of control...get it??

Gee...that never once dawned on me..

Just so I don't screw up the first time I try this...what exactly is it that I should be controlling?

[Dodger]

Indeed Dodger, you are a generous man! Considering the least expensive airplane (other than model airplanes) cost $20,000, even a small fleet of just 2 planes would cost $40,000+. Or was that just another metaphor to be taken figuratively? :devilsh:

You can't even buy a wing for $20,000...metaphorically speaking.

[arsenal]

Yea you can.
Chicken or skate.