Homeless Boys

[Dodger]

I took a motorbike buzz around the bay yesterday morning to join friends for coffee and a chat near Sunee. I always stop at the beach to stretch a bit after the 30 minute ride, then routinely drive through Jomtien Complex just to see the scene before making my way to Sanongs Cafe on Soi Yensabai. Just in this one short early morning visit to Pattaya I ran into 3 different boys who I’ve known for years who have been forced to survive on the streets due to the effects of this pandemic.

The 3 things these boys all have in common are; They all have above average looks, genuinely nice guys, and have all been working the scene for several years. One boy (names not important) worked before his 2 year hitch in the Army at Nice Boys Gogo…another worked freelance in-and-around Sunee (Green Chairs). and the last boy usually works freelance at the beach. From what I’ve seen over the years, none of these boys had a lack of customers and/or sponsors, wore nice clothes, appeared clean (drug free), and were (and are) just as down-to-earth and friendly as they come.

One boy was sleeping in a small alley which runs between two large buildings just down from Dong Tan Beach. He had a tattered rain poncho taped to the wall to help block the rain at night, a roll-up straw mat for a bed, and his clothes were balled-up on the ground and being used as a pillow. The second boy I ran into was sleeping in a bar in Jomtien Complex where he now works at night. At least he has a roof over his head and a small sofa to use as a bed. The third boy I spotted was sleeping on the cement porch outside a small shop on Soi Yensabai just down from where Two Guys Guesthouse used to be. Similar to Beach Boy, he was sleeping on the ground using his clothes as a pillow. Sadly, but honestly, this reminded me of the hobo’s I’d see living around the rail yards in Chicago, with the exception being Chicago hobo’s prefer living in cardboard boxes and always beg for handouts.

I know that many of you may find this hard to believe, but not one of these boys asked me for money. A phenomenon…maybe? Who knows. Maybe, even with times being as hard as they are right now, saving face is still important to them. In any event, I stuffed some money in each of their pockets. Not much, but enough to cover a room for the night and food for a few days. I plan to do the same each and every time I make these visits which is normally every 4-5 days.

Before anyone asks the question that we hear so often, i.e. “Why don’t these boys just go home”? I’m going to take the liberty of answering this for you. It’s because some of them don’t have a home to go back to. Common Scenario: Many of these boys come from small remote jungle villages…raised by their grandmothers while their mothers are away (indefinitely) working in a factory in Bangkok…grandmothers die…homes disappear. End of story. As far as many Thai fathers are concerned, especially in the impoverished regions, they commonly drink them themselves into a permanent stupor after kids come along…drift off to a place with no responsibilities, and offer no support whatsoever to their families after that. Then there are the fortunate ones. The ones (and there are many) who have good parents (mothers and fathers) and have a home to return to and survive. I believe the majority of boys fall in this category, but that doesn’t do anything for the less fortunate ones.

.All I’ve been hearing and reading about for the past 7 months are farang complaining about the services THEY have to do without…the services THEY can’t have…the inconveniences THEY have to suffer when cancelling a holiday…and a host of other complaints, all of which, frankly, are self-serving and trivial as compared to the Thais over here who are struggling in the “survival mode” It’s almost embarrassing.

So nobody gets me wrong here, if I were stuck back in the U.S and banned from returning to Thailand it would be the ULTIMATE BALL-BUST, and I would be just as desperate as some of you are to return as soon as I could, so don’t get me wrong. But, in the mean-time, I would be sending money to my boyfriend to make sure he was taken care of in the process. I know some would balk at this, but I certainly wouldn’t allow another persons blindness (or, self-centeredness) to distract me from doing what I knew was right. As far as I’m concerned, this is the time to look for opportunities to help others, especially someone you care for.

What Goes Around – Comes Around.

[Manforallseasons]

Dodger, you and your b/f live together so no need to make speeches about the disenfranchised and who exactly should money be sent to, and even though none of the boys you saw asked for money, surely after seeing their plight you gave them money to eat, and a few hundred baht for a room for the night?

[Zebedee]

I for one am relieved to learn that Dodger gave them some much needed funds. Had he not mentioned that important fact, I would have thought , how could he not help them in some small way, he must know they are desperate? I do not think him telling us was in ANYWAY self-serving or lecturing. Dodger I applaud your generosity , and thank you for telling us the reality of the impact of the Virus.

[Oliver2]

Me too. And please carry on making speeches, or more accurately, informing us as to the realities of life in Thailand today.

[dinagam]

I'm holding to the belief that the Thais will survive and overcome this terrible situation with or without the help of falang. Those who are hungry will continue to be fed by generous organisations and individuals, although the food servings can be meagre at times. Contributions to food NGOs will reach more needy people than by giving random individuals money especially when Thais in general are fond of their alcohol. Most of them will not be running around naked from the lack of clothes because of excessive expenditure on clothing. The moneyboys need to redouble their efforts to stay in the business.

[goji]

An excellent write up by Dodger. I pretty much agree with every line of it. Including distinguishing between professional hobos and those who were trying their best when the opportunities were there previously, but have fallen on hard times now.

[Dodger]

Contributions to food NGOs will reach more needy people than by giving random individuals money.....

Can you recommend any food NGO's who are providing this support to the homeless in Thailand right now? .

[dab69]

Hard times yes. Desperation. My friend died and I could not visit him.
His friend that cared for him got hit by a car.
A week later his brother got hit by a car and needed his leg pinned to heal. (documented with pictures)
What a way to get money! That's true desperation if the only way to get money is walk in front of a car and get hit.
I'm not saying it was on purpose but chance probability is running a bit thin here.

[gerefan2]

before making my way to Sanongs Cafe on Soi Yensabai. .

I’m amazed his little cafe is still open. It was struggling before all this. Take it he is ok?

[Manforallseasons]

Several weeks ago food lines for the poor were common in Pattaya bars etc. contributed, a massage place I like near Tukcom gave food to the needy I gave the boss 1000 toward her good deed as well as some money to boys in need.
This lines are no longer common as most who were able to return to families appear to have done just that.

[Dodger]

I’m amazed his little cafe is still open. It was struggling before all this. Take it he is ok?

Yes, Sanong is doing just fine. He has a group of regular morning customers from Yensabai Condo's which seems to be helping him keep things afloat.

[Dodger]

Several weeks ago food lines for the poor were common in Pattaya bars

I know, the "Balloon Chasers" were in seventh heaven...LOL.

[Zebedee]

I know, the "Balloon Chasers" were in seventh heaven...LOL.

Some mathematician here should produce a Venn Diagram showing the different terms used to describe sexpats i.e

Expats, Retirees, Pensioners, Tourists, Visitors, Cheap Charlies, Ballon Chasers, Sexpats - and how they are interlinked.

[Oliver2]

I'd be interested to know if the number of gay expats is declining.. I suspect it is. It was a good deal-or so it seemed- in 2004/5 when I was considering relocation...for one thing the UK pound was strong. But now? Many of us were attracted by the prospect after spending holidays there, or meeting someone special. Now, the tourist market has been on the decline for many years so there may be fewer of us tempted.

[sglad]

The 3 things these boys all have in common are; They all have above average looks, genuinely nice guys, and have all been working the scene for several years. One boy (names not important) worked before his 2 year hitch in the Army at Nice Boys Gogo…another worked freelance in-and-around Sunee (Green Chairs). and the last boy usually works freelance at the beach. From what I’ve seen over the years, none of these boys had a lack of customers and/or sponsors, wore nice clothes, appeared clean (drug free), and were (and are) just as down-to-earth and friendly as they come.

I'm more than a little surprised, to be honest. If the above description is correct, than these boys are better off than most in their lot. They are young, they have looks, they have street smarts and people skills, and they're Thai citizens. It's been five months since the lock-down and presumably business in Pattaya has been on the decline at least two months before that - so why haven't these guys moved on? What are they waiting for - things in Pattaya aren't going to get better for at least another year, if ever. Have they been told otherwise and are waiting it out? I don't know what their individual home situations are like but why haven't they gone home? At least they'd have food and shelter. Where are their sponsors? What happened to all the money made during the good years if not spent on booze, drugs, women, trinklets or gambled away?

The factories, having lost a lot of their foreign workers, are crying for staff. Canning factories are looking for general workers for 300Bt a day - 500Bt if you work a 12-hour shift. Double pay on Sundays and public holidays. My Burmese-Thai friends are doing double shifts in these factories. Some can barely read or write Thai but they're used to hard work, even before Covid. No nice clothes, no sponsors, no fancy holidays with sugar daddies. And they've had to downsize - from single rooms to three to a room. A good friend is selling banana and sweet potato fritters to supplement his income as a barber. Another is doing odd jobs as a painter, gardener, maid and dishwasher. And he is stunning and has a ripped body. People whose livelihoods have been impacted by Covid started finding alternative ways to make a living four months ago.

[christianpfc]

Thanks for your report, Dodger. I agree with your views.

I console myself with the thought that I stay at my parent's place in Germany (where I still have two rooms for myself) for free and my only hardships is not having sex for months and having to find ways to fill the waiting time until I can return to Thailand (or somewhere else in SEAsia, wherever opens first for tourism).

Indeed there are boys who do not ask for money. I guess it's time for a second wave of online money transfers them (I rather give money to individuals I know than to charity).

Sglad raised an interesting point. Migrant workers from neighboring countries are permitted to enter Thailand (with 14 days quarantine). But there should be enough unemployed Thais to fill these jobs now? And I think Thailand needs tourists more than migrant workers, but why are tourists not permitted? For 30 days permission to stay it would not make sense to submit oneself to 14 days quarantine, but with a longer visa, I would jump at the occasion to return.

[gerefan2]

I too would do 14 days quarantine for my winter stay in Thailand.

I’m hoping they will allow people with 90 day visas in first.

[Khor tose]

Dodger if you could only marry each and every one, and get therm off the street, I know you would?

[Dodger]

[QUOTE=sglad;268548]

..........so why haven't these guys moved on? What are they waiting for - things in Pattaya aren't going to get better for at least another year, if ever. Have they been told otherwise and are waiting it out? I don't know what their individual home situations are like but why haven't they gone home? At least they'd have food and shelter. Where are their sponsors?/QUOTE]

You raise some very valid questions, but in reality some boys simply don't have homes to return to as described earlier in this post. For them, places like Pattaya become their support-system...sub-community...new home. Asking why they just don't leave their homes to find work elsewhere is also a valid question, but only when being asked from a western perspective. Asking why they came to places like Pattaya when they were 15 years old to work as prostitutes in the first place would be an equally valid question.

Thai boys, like some of the more unfortunate ones being discussed here, are uneducated, haven't the foggiest clue what "Planning" means, learned to survive on the streets as a necessity, and often lack self-confidence when faced with some of the alternatives you mentioned. leaving their support-system which has kept them alive for years to work in a canning factory in another city makes perfect sense to you and I, but to boys like this, the fear and uncertainty attached to this is simply more than some can handle.

Where are their sponsors? You're guess is as good as theirs.

[Manforallseasons]

Dodger, as you are the O.P. of this thread may I ask what you did to help the 3 boys you noted in your opening post?

[goji]

Dodger, as you are the O.P. of this thread may I ask what you did to help the 3 boys you noted in your opening post?

The answer is contained within Dodger's opening post.
Also, it's a little inconsistent to keep asking questions about other's spending, whilst not explaining one's own personal contribution.

[Zebedee]

so why haven't these guys moved on? What are they waiting for - things in Pattaya aren't going to get better for at least another year, if ever. Have they been told otherwise and are waiting it out? I don't know what their individual home situations are like but why haven't they gone home? At least they'd have food and shelter. Where are their sponsors?



You raise some very valid questions, but in reality some boys simply don't have homes to return to as described earlier in this post. For them, places like Pattaya become their support-system...sub-community...new home. Asking why they just don't leave their homes to find work elsewhere is also a valid question, but only when being asked from a western perspective. Asking why they came to places like Pattaya when they were 15 years old to work as prostitutes in the first place would be an equally valid question.

Thai boys, like some of the more unfortunate ones being discussed here, are uneducated, haven't the foggiest clue what "Planning" means, learned to survive on the streets as a necessity, and often lack self-confidence when faced with some of the alternatives you mentioned. leaving their support-system which has kept them alive for years to work in a canning factory in another city makes perfect sense to you and I, but to boys like this, the fear and uncertainty attached to this is simply more than some can handle.

Where are their sponsors? You're guess is as good as theirs.


Your understanding and empathy for the boys lives and the difficult situation they are in, is like a breath of fresh air compared to some of the recent posts on this forum where they are thought of as nothing more than a resource to be used and taken advantage of whenever the opportunity arises .

[Dodger]

Dodger, as you are the O.P. of this thread may I ask what you did to help the 3 boys you noted in your opening post?

Sure you can ask.

Oh...did you want me to answer that now? If that's the case, I gave them money.

Now, before you come back and ask me how I knew that the money I gave them would actually be spent on food, and not on drugs, whiskey, internet games, or lotto tickets, - my answer would be "I don't know"...but my instincts told me they were hungry and that's all that matters.

[Manforallseasons]

goji...” The answer is contained within ”

QUOTE=Manforallseasons;268535]Several weeks ago food lines for the poor were common in Pattaya bars etc. contributed, a massage place I like near Tukcom gave food to the needy I gave the boss 1000 toward her good deed as well as some money to boys in need.
This lines are no longer common as most who were able to return to families appear to have done just that.[/QUOTE]

Good for you Dodger I hope your act leads others to generosity with money in lieu of words!

[Dodger]

Sglad raised an interesting point. Migrant workers from neighboring countries are permitted to enter Thailand (with 14 days quarantine). But there should be enough unemployed Thais to fill these jobs now? And I think Thailand needs tourists more than migrant workers, but why are tourists not permitted? For 30 days permission to stay it would not make sense to submit oneself to 14 days quarantine, but with a longer visa, I would jump at the occasion to return.

The problem with having unemployeed Thais filling the jobs of migrant workers is possibly due to the fact that the majority of migrant workers (4-5 million) support the agriculture industry, and this new generation of Thais don't want any part of toiling in the hot fields all day for lower than minimum wages. Most sizable farms in Thailand are deeply in debt to the bank and unable to pay minimum wages which further exasperates the problem. Exploiting migrant workers for this purpose, unfortunately, has always been the solution.

We started seeing this in the fishing industry as well starting about 4-5 years ago. I used to love watching the young Thai fishing boys unloading their catches every morning on the docks in Bang Saray - and now, all I see are old toothless migrants manning the nets. This trend can also be seen in the sex industry, specifically, the gay scene, where we see declining numbers of Thai boys being attracted to this type of employment because the money just isn't there any more, where migrants from Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam gladly fill the seats. Pre-Covid-19, the economy was also picking up providing more jobs for the younger generation which also contributes to the decline we see.

The government may see less risk with migrant farm workers than they do with foreign tourists, due to the fact that farm workers, (following their 14 day quarantine), are typically employed in more remote areas segregated from the mainstream. If an outbreak of the virus were to occur, they may feel that it would be easier to contain it, thus presenting lower risk. Foreign tourists, as we all know, are all over place, sometimes impossible to track, and fully integrated in the mainstream.

[goji]

The problem with having unemployeed Thais filling the jobs of migrant workers is possibly due to the fact that the majority of migrant workers (4-5 million) support the agriculture industry, and this new generation of Thais don't want any part of toiling in the hot fields all day for lower than minimum wages.


We started seeing this in the fishing industry as well starting about 4-5 years ago. I used to love watching the young Thai fishing boys unloading their catches every morning on the docks in Bang Saray - and now, all I see are old toothless migrants manning the nets. This trend can also be seen in the sex industry, specifically, the gay scene, where we see declining numbers of Thai boys being attracted to this type of employment because the money just isn't there any more, where migrants from Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam gladly fill the seats. Pre-Covid-19, the economy was also picking up providing more jobs for the younger generation which also contributes to the decline we see.

It's the same in Europe. Locals don't want to do some of the jobs, so loads of migrant workers come in to do them. A process aided by generous social security benefits for those who prefer to sit on their arses at the taxpayer's expense.

Have to say I'm quite happy to see immigrants filling the positions in the bars. A higher percentage of young Thais are overweight these days and it looks to be even worse in the next generation. I'm not interested in sumo wrestlers.
Also, pre-covid, I don't really thing the money had disappeared out of the bars. Tips have increased at least in line with inflation and probably well ahead of inflation in Bangkok. I doubt there's any faster way for them to earn 1500~2000 than a short time off in Bangkok. It's just that their alternative career choices are probably better than before.

[a447]

A process aided by generous social security benefits for those who prefer to sit on their arses at the taxpayer's expense.

Same situation in Australia.

Despite tens of thousands being unemployed, overseas fruit-pickers have to be asked to come and do the job. Meanwhile, the lazy locals collect their monthly cheque from the government.

I never bothered about where the guys in the bars came from - the more variety the better. But the language barrier was often a bit of a problem.

[francois]

[QUOTE=a447;Meanwhile, the lazy locals collect their monthly cheque from the government.

[/QUOTE]

An over-simplification of the situation.

noun
noun: over-simplification
simplification of something to such an extent that a distorted impression is given.

[a447]

An over-simplification of the situation.

noun
noun: over-simplification
simplification of something to such an extent that a distorted impression is given.

How so?

Where is the "distortion"?

[arsenal]

The West has become so bloated with the populace and their expectations of what the government should provide for them.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury."
Alexander Fraser Tytler.
attributed.

[francois]

How so?

Where is the "distortion"?

You and others are assuming that the locals are lazy and not really knowing their true reasons. This is a typical reaction of many people in the USA regarding social welfare programs.

The distortion is that it may apply to all locals and not just to a limited number of people.

[a447]

You and others are assuming that the locals are lazy and not really knowing their true reasons. This is a typical reaction of many people in the USA regarding social welfare programs.

I'm not "assuming" anything.

I am reporting on the present situation - in the Covid era - as an observer on the ground in Australia, not as someone commenting from afar.

The fact of the matter is that when businesses went into lockdown and workers lost their jobs, the government gave them a monthly sum of money to help them get by. You wrongly assume that I am not in favour of such social welfare, when in fact I not only fully support it, but think the sum is too low!

When lockdown was eased, small business asked for their employees to come back to work. But many workers were only part time and were getting more money from the government then they did from their jobs, so had no incentive to return to work.

That is the true reason. And I'm the one who knows it, not you, as I see it on the news every night. In Australia, not Thailand.

The unemployment rate is a national disaster - millions have lost their jobs. So when a job comes along, why aren't they taking it? The answer, mon vieux, can be found above.

[siscu58]

The West has become so bloated with the populace and their expectations of what the government should provide for them.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury."
Alexander Fraser Tytler.
attributed.

Completely agree with both statements

[francois]

The unemployment rate is a national disaster - millions have lost their jobs. So when a job comes along, why aren't they taking it? The answer, mon vieux, can be found above.

Since you put it that way, who am I to quibble. :drink:

[sglad]

I never bothered about where the guys in the bars came from - the more variety the better. But the language barrier was often a bit of a problem.

That's why you gotta learn English - and that's not a "mute" point!

[bkkguy]

That's why you gotta learn English - and that's not a "mute" point!

whilst not wanting to descend into mootness here, if both parties in a conversation are reduced to silence by the language barrier then surely it is actually a "mute" point?

[Zebedee]

I never bothered about where the guys in the bars came from - the more variety the better. But the language barrier was often a bit of a problem.


That's why you gotta learn English - and that's not a "mute" point!


whilst not wanting to descend into mootness here, if both parties in a conversation are reduced to silence by the language barrier then surely it is actually a "mute" point?

Except sglad is only saying " you got to learn english", he is referencing his own statement when he says "and that's not a "mute" point".
not the language barrier between a447 and the boy.

He is still teasing a447 for misspelling moot with mute in a different thread. So sglad is ahead on mootness.

It seems bkkguy you point above is muted!

[Zebedee]

It seems bkkguy you point above is muted!
That was said tongue in cheek, but seeing it in print its not obvious.

feel free to tell me Fark Cough.

[Dodger]

Since starting this thread, 2 of the homeless boys I referred to are now dead.

One of the boys (name?) roamed Jomtien Beach working freelance for the past year (or more)., He slept between the buildings adjacent to the Dong Tan parking lot and relied mostly on handouts to survive. His friend, who is another homeless boy in his mid-twenties, said the boy was found dead one morning wrapped up in his blanket. The police were called to remove the body. I don't know the actual cause of death, but the last time I saw him he was as thin as a rail and didn't look well at all.

The second boy named Olay, worked freelance in Sunee Plaza for several years before the pandemic and was know for his gentle mannerisms. He was approximately 20 years old and had also been sleeping on the streets since the pandemic hit. I would give him a donation every time I saw him, but can't tell you how sorry I am now that I didn't do more. Similar to the first boy, Olay's body was reduced to a skeleton over the past year of surviving on handouts. People who knew him fear that he has also died.

For some reason I didn't feel motivated to post this, but when I read the thread today related to the Food Line in Pattaya, including some of the responses to that thread, I felt inclined to share this.

Some of you who don't live here may not be aware of just how bad it's getting.

[Oliver2]

I'm glad you did. There are periods- and we are in the middle of one now- where compassion is considered a weakness. In the 19th century, Dickens wrote of this in Hard Times....Gradgrind, the entrepreneur industrialist, is of the opinion that the problem with the poor is they expect "to eat turtle soup with a silver spoon." The new conservatism regards the concept of every man for himself as a sign of manliness.
And so often, the proponents of this ideology- and one orange-coloured one springs to mind- were the children of the rich, beginning their careers with that same "silver spoon".

[Nirish guy]

Since starting this thread, 2 of the homeless boys I referred to are now dead.

Thats terrible and THOSE guys are exactly the people that such food lines should be there to help when they need it most and its beyond sad that somewhere those boys seem to have fallen between the cracks and failed to get the help they needed.

I wonder though did some of the undoubted free loaders who queue up at such events for THEIR "free food” - whether they really NEED it or not - literally take the food out of the mouths of the likes of those boys who REALLY needed it - and THAT is and was was my point ! :-(


"For some reason I didn't feel motivated to post this, but when I read the thread today related to the Food Line in Pattaya, including some of the responses to that thread, I felt inclined to share this.

Hmmm well If talking about my earlier post there all I can say is that from your earlier posts on the subject it seems that we're not perhaps just as far removed from each others view as it might appear, as it seems we’re both confirming the fact that not all people who queue for free anything are always the people most in need....

Originally Posted by Manforallseasons
"Several weeks ago food lines for the poor were common in Pattaya bars"


I know, the "Balloon Chasers" were in seventh heaven...LOL.

[goji]

Thats terrible and THOSE guys are exactly the people that such food lines should be there to help when they need it most and its beyond sad that somewhere those boys seem to have fallen between the cracks and failed to get the help they needed.

I wonder though did some of the undoubted free loaders who queue up at such events for THEIR "free food” - whether they really NEED it or not - literally take the food out of the mouths of the likes of those boys who REALLY needed it - and THAT is and was was my point ! :-(


On my extensive walks around Pattaya earlier in the year, I did notice quite a few homeless people who look in desperate condition and in need of some food and decent clothing. These are exactly the type of people who would ideally be helped by food handouts.

However, looking at the video posted earlier and my own photos of such queues from earlier in the year, I don't see the queues comprising of the skinny malnourished homeless types who need the help the most.
No doubt some in the queues need a meal, so it's good that they get the chance.
However a few others could benefit from skipping a few meals to get their weight down. Maybe the latter types would be described by certain members as balloon chasers, but only if they were farang.

So I think you are right on all accounts. Don't worry about the emotional and irrational types who don't read posts properly before replying.

[StevieWonders]

On my extensive walks around Pattaya earlier in the year …

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[christianpfc]

I'm happy to report that the situation in Phnom Penh and Siem Reap is better. Homeless are slim, but not emaciated. As far as I can judge, those homeless now were homeless before Covid, and everyone unemployed due to Covid seems to have found somewhere to sleep and something to eat.

One of my friends here has been unemployed for a while, and there were problems getting back to his hometown, so I offered him to pay for a stay in a temple (at least that's what I think, that everyone can got to a temple to have a roof and some food and some occupation), he vehemently refused the idea of going to a temple and managed without my help (or little help, on average 20 USD per month).

[Dodger]

It's impossible to determine who needs a free handout in a food line more just by looking at a video, but, there's no doubt (in my mind anyway) that the people who need the help the most aren't the ones standing in these lines, they're the ones who can't make it to the line.

I'm just an average person riding around town on my motorbike and I call see where help is needed the most just by opening my fucking eyes. When you see a distraught looking person that's been reduced to a skeleton - sleeping on a filthy sidewalk with the pigeons...HE NEEDS THE HELP THE MOST. The ONLY time the police (or any other government sponsors) pitch in and do anything for these people, is when they're called to remove the body, and they only do that because they have to. THIS IS FACT. These people are nothing more than cowards who want to project themselves as community hero's. It's beyond appalling. It's a disgrace.

Having got that off my chest, I've decided to increase the amount of support I provide to the homeless going forward.

If anyone else wants to do the same, the areas that I know about where homeless are surviving in South Pattaya include the following:

Dong Tan Beach: In front of the parking lot living on the sand (1 family). Behind the parking lot living between the buildings (random boys). Far end of Dong Tan (just past Pattaya Park) living on the sand (random boys).

Sunee Plaza Area: Soi Yensabai (2 homeless) next the where Two Guys Guest House was before. Soi Sunee, in front of Euro Boys Gogo (1 homeless).

Soi Day/Night Area: (1 homeless) in front of old Flamingo Hotel if he's still alive.

[MikaQ5]

Dodger
The boy at Dong Tan - was he tallish boy called Nut/Note ?
I gave a homeless boy (;at the alley similar to your description v) some money last Dec when I was there

[sglad]

I'm just an average person riding around town on my motorbike and I call see where help is needed the most just by opening my fucking eyes. When you see a distraught looking person that's been reduced to a skeleton - sleeping on a filthy sidewalk with the pigeons...HE NEEDS THE HELP THE MOST. The ONLY time the police (or any other government sponsors) pitch in and do anything for these people, is when they're called to remove the body, and they only do that because they have to. THIS IS FACT. These people are nothing more than cowards who want to project themselves as community hero's. It's beyond appalling. It's a disgrace.


So you were joyriding on your motorbike and you happen to "see" this homeless people and made all the above assumptions, because, according to you, one only has to look to know everything? How do you know help wasn't offered and it was declined? There is a huge debate surrounding homelessness and why some people choose to remain homeless. I'm not saying the people you saw with your X-ray vision chose to be homeless; all I'm saying is that unless you've spoken to every homeless individual you saw, every assistance provider, be they private or public, the only truthful response you can come up with is you don't know why. So what you're saying is NOT a fact no matter how thunderous your chest beating and indignance on an anonymous forum is.

And, as for wanting to be a community hero, well...



Having got that off my chest, I've decided to increase the amount of support I provide to the homeless going forward.


How will that make them go forward, so to speak? There's also debate that giving the homeless money might keep them on the streets longer, fuel drug and alcohol habits, etc. Perhaps the best thing one could do is to tell these people that the good ol' days are never coming back and things in Pattaya - or anywhere else for that matter - are not going to get better anytime soon and it is best for them to move on and, if they do stay on the streets, they are going to die. But if they do move on, I guess the wannabe virtual community heroes won't have much to vent about - collateral damage we can all live with, I'm sure.

[sglad]

On my extensive walks around Pattaya earlier in the year, I did notice quite a few homeless people who look in desperate condition and in need of some food and decent clothing.

I've always noticed homeless people in Thailand. Perhaps they have become more visible in Pattaya because everything else is dead or dying and the eyes and ears are no longer being distracted by sashaying prostitutes calling out "Hey hansum man, I want go with you!"

Seriously, perhaps they were always there and one never noticed because one's mind and wallet were preoccupied with other things. Oliver might protest, but one only has to read this forum to know that most members don't go to Pattaya to commit acts of charity.

[Dodger]

Dodger
The boy at Dong Tan - was he tallish boy called Nut/Note ?
I gave a homeless boy (;at the alley similar to your description v) some money last Dec when I was there

Mike, he was a bit on the tall side for a Thai...dark complexion...I'm guessing between 20-22 years old...but I didn't know his name. His companion and constant sidekick on the Beach was Nat who used to work at Nice Boys back in the day if that helps. Nat is also homeless now.

[jvt22222]

I wonder … and have no idea or way to know for sure … how the over-riding issue of FACE impacts on homelessness being discussed here. FACE affects everything here so it must influence homelessness as well. Certainly would seem to affect the answer to the question "are you homeless?"

[Dodger]

I wonder … and have no idea or way to know for sure … how the over-riding issue of FACE impacts on homelessness being discussed here. FACE affects everything here so it must influence homelessness as well. Certainly would seem to affect the answer to the question "are you homeless?"

Good question:

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I found it interesting that none of the homeless boys I was interacting with ever asked me for money. In-other-words, they weren't begging. They also appeared to be accepting these temporary living conditions as the result of the economy, nothing more, and nothing less. And, at least from what I could detect, showed no sense of shame (loss of face) regarding this condition.

I've also come across homeless people in Pattaya who seem to be clearly suffering from consequences of their own making (usually drug or alcohol related) who seem to have no problem begging for money. Right or wrong, I never make any donations to these people.

[goji]

I've also come across homeless people in Pattaya who seem to be clearly suffering from consequences of their own making (usually drug or alcohol related) who seem to have no problem begging for money. Right or wrong, I never make any donations to these people.

Very good point. Giving money to a drug addict is not a good idea.
I have seen locals giving food to people begging on the street in Pattaya and the recipients don't seem as grateful as you would expect.

[Manforallseasons]

Very good point. Giving money to a drug addict is not a good idea.
I have seen locals giving food to people begging on the street in Pattaya and the recipients don't seem as grateful as you would expect.

This is a cultural (religious) thing as the givers are making merit for themselves by giving.

[cdnmatt]

This is a cultural (religious) thing as the givers are making merit for themselves by giving.

Yeah, saying thanks over in Thailand isn't needed like it is in the West. A quick thanks and acknowledgement is all that's needed, and generally anything more is seen as taking away from the act of giving, and as MFAS said, making merit.

At the same time, don't get all pissy when your boy du jour doesn't salivate with praise and thankfulness for you helping him out a bit.

[StevieWonders]

Yeah, saying thanks over in Thailand isn't needed like it is in the West. A quick thanks and acknowledgement is all that's needed, and generally anything more is seen as taking away from the act of giving, and as MFAS said, making merit.

At the same time, don't get all pissy when your boy du jour doesn't salivate with praise and thankfulness for you helping him out a bit.It’s the Thai patronage system. We’re their patrons, not their lovers in the Western sense.

[francois]

When I give to beggars (for want of a better word) I don't care what they do with the money nor do I look for gratitude from them, although I most often receive it. All I know is that they need it more than I.

[cdnmatt]

It’s the Thai patronage system. We’re their patrons, not their lovers in the Western sense.

Plus if someone helps them, instead of being eternally thankful, they'll be more inclined to think they received help because they've been a good person during their life and earned enough karma to be deserving of said help versus having anything to do with whoever helped them.

That's just how life works over there, hence why big thank yous to everyone all the time just aren't needed. You're helping someone to make merit, so later on in life you'll be deserving of and receive help too, and round and round it goes with everyone helping each other.

[dab69]

I still want to know about the street boys cause of demise and how this can be prevented.
I remember on article about a kid on the beach died from TB.

Just the stress of the heat and humidity, lack of a job/income/food
and the stress of hopelessness would be a big factor also

[cdnmatt]

I still want to know about the street boys cause of demise and how this can be prevented.

You do know you're basically asking how to end world poverty, right?

If you have the money, desire and energy, start a non-profit that provides relief to those in need -- bit of money, shelter, clothes, cell phone top ups, keep in contract with them, try to find them work or help work out whatever issues they have, et al.

There's a countrless number of research studies on this, and they've pretty much all found that once you slip into homelessness it's extremely difficult to get out of. However, a little helping hand can go a long way.

I remember this one study in Vancouver... they took 120 homeless people, gave half of them $12k and the other half nothing. heh, kind of a rude study, but whatever... Anyway, they checked back in with everyone after 12 months and it was basically night and day between the two groups in terms of who had found things like proper housing, regular food, stable employment, et al. The ones that got that lump sum did far better and we're back to being self sufficient agian.

[Dodger]

When I give to beggars (for want of a better word) I don't care what they do with the money nor do I look for gratitude from them, although I most often receive it. All I know is that they need it more than I.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbogA-p88wM

[MikaQ5]

Mike, he was a bit on the tall side for a Thai...dark complexion...I'm guessing between 20-22 years old...but I didn't know his name. His companion and constant sidekick on the Beach was Nat who used to work at Nice Boys back in the day if that helps. Nat is also homeless now.

Dodger the guy I am thinking is in his late 20's ( I know him 10 + years ☺️) and fair skinned for a Thai so it doesn't sound like the lad you know has died
It's a hard life for any of them tho

[latintopxxx]

matt...the vancouver 12k experiment...got any independant data apart from your assertions??? from my experience in the western world the vast majoruty have drug addictions and or / mental healthn issues.

[Nirish guy]

I believe this is the study that Matt may be referring to - it actually mentions the figure as $7.5K rather than $12k - but we'll allow a little wiggle room there perhaps.....

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p096hf4z/the-7-500-universal-basic-income-experiment

[cdnmatt]

matt...the vancouver 12k experiment...got any independant data apart from your assertions??? from my experience in the western world the vast majoruty have drug addictions and or / mental healthn issues.

First, thanks NIrish, saved me from searching. :)

And of course lots have drug addictions, they ended up homeless! Many times they're using drugs because they ended up homeless, and not the other way around. However, when some researchers showed up and said, "here's a good lump sum of money, no strings attached, talk to you in a year", quite obviously from the results of that study many of them thought to themselves this is the opportunity of a lifetime and a second change, so best to put down the H and make the most of this.

It was just an experiment to show that a little help can go a long way many times, and once someone ends up as homeless, it's very very difficult to get out.

Do you expect these people to pull themselves up from their bootstraps, or something? heh, that's a phrase that has been completely perverted over the decades. Comes from the 1920s / 30s, and was used by advocates of organized labor, unions, minimum wage, work safety regulations, et al. It was used as a condascending phrase against the factory owners and others in the owner class.

Kind of, "what do these rich assholes expect? us to pull ourselves from our bootstraps, or something?". That's the point of the phrase... you can bend over and pull on your bootstraps all you want, you're not getting up.

[StevieWonders]

I believe this is the study that Matt may be referring to - it actually mentions the figure as $7.5K rather than $12k - but we'll allow a little wiggle room there perhaps.....

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p096hf4z/the-7-500-universal-basic-income-experiment
Similar outcomes have been described in those places that have implemented the idea of a Basic Income (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income) which may indicate the concept should be more generally applied. As I've said before I maintain a number of sexual partners, each of whom receives from me what I regard as a basic income which they are able to supplement by freelancing, working as a waiter or in Starbucks or a 9-11 etcetera.

[Dodger]

Dodger the guy I am thinking is in his late 20's ( I know him 10 + years ☺️) and fair skinned for a Thai so it doesn't sound like the lad you know has died
It's a hard life for any of them tho

Mike, if the boy you're referring to is a bit tall with a light complexion, that sounds like Nat.

Nat was a constant companion of the deceased boy as I mentioned before. I just saw him last week wandering the beachfront wearing blue jean shorts - so short that they exposed the cheeks of his ass. A seasoned survivor.

[vnman]

I've also come across homeless people in Pattaya who seem to be clearly suffering from consequences of their own making (usually drug or alcohol related) who seem to have no problem begging for money. Right or wrong, I never make any donations to these people.

Obviously, you decide who you help or not. But I wouldn't be so fast to judge when talking about who is to blame for their misfortune. As an example, a boy I helped on many occasions, mostly with clothes and food and some time with money, was clearly on drugs. His story was as rough as they come. At a very young age...we are talking prepub here, he was taken to Bangkok to work in a private sex club. The rest I leave to your imagination.

I hated the way he was treated by some people in Sunnee.

The 2 boys you mentioned who died. Of course, I have no clue, but I can very well imagine that even people in their situation gravitate to drugs. Only to try to escape the harsh reality of their daily struggles.

[MikaQ5]

Mike, if the boy you're referring to is a bit tall with a light complexion, that sounds like Nat.

Nat was a constant companion of the deceased boy as I mentioned before. I just saw him last week wandering the beachfront wearing blue jean shorts - so short that they exposed the cheeks of his ass. A seasoned survivor.

"Seasoned" 555 very apt
Looking quite skinny last time I saw him ☹️
I'll look for him again if I'm there next month and give him some help

[goji]

I just saw him last week wandering the beachfront wearing blue jean shorts - so short that they exposed the cheeks of his ass. A seasoned survivor.

Having some of the butt visible above or below the clothing is usually a good look on a fit lad. Euroboys gogo used to do that & in more recent times, I've seen a lad in Jomtien complex like that.

[Dodger]

Sad day yesterday.

I was riding my motorbike on Soi Yensabai-Pattaya and right in front of what used to be "Two Guys Guest House" were 2 middle-aged women and 3 young children sleeping on the front porch. Their bedding was spread across the concrete floor and they had an umbrella opened and perched in front of them to block the rain. The floor was covered with mud - and the children were filthy.

I went to 7/11 - filled up a bag with cold sandwiches - a half dozen fruit pies - small containers of milk - and a stack of sanitized cotton hand wipes and gave them to the group. I also handed each lady 200 baht.

I just hate seeing this happen when young children are involved.

I spoke with Jai when I returned to Bang Saray and we agreed that if they are still there later this week, we're going to cover the cost of a room for a few months, along with some pocket money for food. It's the least we can do. Jai also thought it would be a good idea to stop over at Wat Chai to see if they can offer some assistance as well.

I know a lot of people are concerned about their holiday plans being disrupted - but I don't think they know the gravity of what's going on over here right now.

[Manforallseasons]

Dodger, if you were really sincere you’de let them stay at your place!

[cdnmatt]

Aren't many of the hotels in Pattaya empty at the moment? See if you can strike a deal with one of the hotel owners and put up a bunch of homless people for a while to help them though the pandemic.

[Dodger]

Dodger, if you were really sincere you’d let them stay at your place!

Not a bad idea, but Bang Saray is a bit far for them to travel.

Maybe I can drop them off at your place?

[Oliver2]

Unwise; already full!

[mr giggles]

Sad day yesterday.

I was riding my motorbike on Soi Yensabai-Pattaya and right in front of what used to be "Two Guys Guest House" were 2 middle-aged women and 3 young children sleeping on the front porch. Their bedding was spread across the concrete floor and they had an umbrella opened and perched in front of them to block the rain. The floor was covered with mud - and the children were filthy.

I went to 7/11 - filled up a bag with cold sandwiches - a half dozen fruit pies - small containers of milk - and a stack of sanitized cotton hand wipes and gave them to the group. I also handed each lady 200 baht.

I just hate seeing this happen when young children are involved.

I spoke with Jai when I returned to Bang Saray and we agreed that if they are still there later this week, we're going to cover the cost of a room for a few months, along with some pocket money for food. It's the least we can do. Jai also thought it would be a good idea to stop over at Wat Chai to see if they can offer some assistance as well.

I know a lot of people are concerned about their holiday plans being disrupted - but I don't think they know the gravity of what's going on over here right now.

Mother Theresa of Babylon by the Sea...
except he's a master of nun.

[Sen Yai]

I went to 7/11 - filled up a bag with cold sandwiches - a half dozen fruit pies - small containers of milk - and a stack of sanitized cotton hand wipes and gave them to the group. I also handed each lady 200 baht.

Next time in 7/11 I suggest you choose hot noodles and Thai sausages, fresh fruit and large bottles of water. Better suited to Thai diets than farangs'.

[arsenal]

Oh mrgiggles you are sneaky, slipping in here and avoiding the Phuket Sandbox thread where some tricky questions regarding your judgement wait.

[goji]

I don't think they know the gravity of what's going on over here right now.

The Thai government should take more responsibility here.
These are special times, where government policy is effectively shutting down large proportions of the economy in tourist towns. So the government ought to take some responsibility to care for people who are without homes as a result of this.
They seem to have enough money to fund other projects, such as construction or sustaining a luxury lifestyle for someone reportedly worth billions.

[Dodger]

Sad day yesterday.

I was riding my motorbike on Soi Yensabai-Pattaya and right in front of what used to be "Two Guys Guest House" were 2 middle-aged women and 3 young children sleeping on the front porch.

As a sequel to my post above: I returned to this same spot this morning and the women and children were gone. According to friends I spoke with they disappeared several days ago. Hopefully they received some help and found some temporary shelter.

I wonder how Pattaya is going to handle the homeless when/if the lockdown curfew comes into play next week. If people aren't supposed to by outside their homes after 9:00 PM, maybe they'll have to start hiding in the dumpsters?

[mr giggles]

As a sequel to my post above: I returned to this same spot this morning and the women and children were gone. According to friends I spoke with they disappeared several days ago. Hopefully they received some help and found some temporary shelter.

I wonder how Pattaya is going to handle the homeless when/if the lockdown curfew comes into play next week. If people aren't supposed to by outside their homes after 9:00 PM, maybe they'll have to start hiding in the dumpsters?

Tres convenient...

[gerefan2]

Tres convenient...
Awww we missed you ...

[Dodger]

Pattaya plans to open a new Homeless Shelter.

A step in the right direction...hopefully!

https://pattayaone.news/pattaya-open-new-homeless-shelter/

[mr giggles]

Pattaya plans to open a new Homeless Shelter.

A step in the right direction...hopefully!

https://pattayaone.news/pattaya-open-new-homeless-shelter/

more meaningless blather..

[Dodger]

More Action:

Apparently the Pattaya Mayor has been put under pressure to act.

Pattaya relocates 33 Homeless People to the Chonburi Protective Center for the Destitute.

https://www.pattayamail.com/news/pattaya-relocates-33-homeless-to-shelter-312977

[Nirish guy]

Maybe better PR wise at the very least if they didn't use trucks with lockable cages on the back to we assume transport said homeless people to the "shelters" perhaps !!

11345

[dab69]

Deputy Mayor Banlue Kullavanijaya and Banglamung Deputy District Chief Pornchai Sangeiad led a team of administrators, social workers and police on the tour of Pattaya’s beachfront Aug. 28 after increasing complaints about homeless people sleeping in front of closed businesses and on the beach.


August 28th?

[Dodger]

Deputy Mayor Banlue Kullavanijaya and Banglamung Deputy District Chief Pornchai Sangeiad led a team of administrators, social workers and police on the tour of Pattaya’s beachfront Aug. 28 after increasing complaints about homeless people sleeping in front of closed businesses and on the beach.


August 28th?

Who knows...as nonresponsive as the City Desk has been regarding this problem it could have been August 28, 2020.

The Mayor must have the DNA of a turtle.

[Manforallseasons]

more meaningless blather..

Stevie, why did you revert to your other handle?

[Oliver2]

Difficult; when did Norman Bates become his mother?

[Old git]

Several years ago, a female Thai aquaintance was telling me about her family - a large family. affluent enough to be car owning, but always at war with itself, trying at each twist to make her take sides with one party or another, much to her despair.

She had several uncles, one of whom was openly gay, who would, she said, cruise a certain soi in Bangkok at night in his car, picking up boys; as did many other Thai gay men. She told me the name of the soi (I honestly forget it now) and taking a stroll glanced down the end of it to see what it was like. In daylight it looked seedy, with the odd shirtless [Deleted text] loitering in a doorway. I decided this was information best not shared in farang-land.

Talking to the girl later, I mentioned I'd had a look and that the boys looked [Deleted text] She agreed - [Deleted text] to work bar - but if they don't do gay they don't eat she explained. It was half a justification.

I wonder how those [Deleted text] have fared in lockdown..?

Some text was deleted under rule 3.2.3 (1).

Jellybean
Moderator

[Dodger]

There were reports in Pattaya yesterday of several homeless people being arrested for violating the curfew. They were apparently taken to the police station where they received fines - but didn't have any money, so the police released them with a strict warning not to violate this law again.

I can just imagine how this conversation went:

Police: You cannot be outside after 9:00 PM
Homeless Guy: But I live outside

Police: You must stay in your home
Homeless Guy: But I don't have a home.

Police: But it's a law that you cannot be outside.
Homeless Guy: If I do not have a home - where should I go?

Police: Up2U, but you cannot be outside.
Homeless Guy: If I stay inside a dumpster is that OK?

Police: No, because that dumpster is not you home.
Homeless Guy: Right now it is.

[christianpfc]

I wonder how those [Deleted text] have fared in lockdown..?]
Street trade was in decline anyway, with number of boys in 2018 between 10 and 20 % of numbers in 2013. Lockdown or not wouldn't make much difference. The only difference might be economical hardship, that there is more need for money from the service providers' side, so without lockdown numbers might be higher, but if there is lack of money on the customers' side, it's a lose-lose situation.


There were reports in Pattaya yesterday of several homeless people being arrested for violating the curfew.
Similar situation in Phnom Penh in April. Streets were mostly empty, except for homeless who have nowhere (a room) to go. During my daily round I suddenly realized that the few others on the street were all homeless! It was in the news, and in one case I witnessed, police riding mocy and (symbolically) hitting people on street with canes.