Vaccination against COVID

[Moses]

As per Russian newspapers top-lawmakers, top-ministers and many other from "elite" already been vaccinated against COVID since late April by experimental vaccine from state military laboratory. They got strong immunity and no side-effects beside 1-3 days of +38C temperature and some headache. Vaccine has been provided to them for free as "a testing".

Yesterday another state laboratory announced end of phase 3 of testing of another vaccine. Govt announced plans to start country's mass-vaccination from September 1.

[latintopxxx]

...hopefully this is true..I can hardly wait for the world to return to some semblance of normality....feels so weird to not be able to hop on a plane and fly somewhere

[dinagam]

No one is stopping you from hitching a ride in a yellow submarine...

[Moses]

...hopefully this is true..

This is true with probability 99,9% - many public figures here now shows no precautions against virus on public. The only question is: for how long lasts immunity. I think nobody knows it now since nobody has experience longer than few months for now.

[Nirish guy]

experimental vaccine from state military laboratory..........Vaccine has been provided to them for free as "a testing".

Although based on Russia's alleged use of injections on their own Citizens in the past I think I'd maybe pass on that offer.....

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[Moses]

Although based on Russia's alleged use of injections on their own Citizens in the past I think I'd maybe pass on that offer.....


Well. It is one more "highly likely". Still no court's decision, just loudly cries of propaganda from both sides. The same as with latest "novichok" case - no proof, only declarations "You did it!" - "No, we didn't!" - "Yes you did it!" - "No we didn't!" - "Highly likely it was you!" - "No!" Political games nonstop.

[Nirish guy]

Well. It is one more "highly likely". Still no court's decision, just loudly cries of propaganda from both sides. The same as with latest "novichok" case - no proof, only declarations "You did it!" - "No, we didn't!" - "Yes you did it!" - "No we didn't!" - "Highly likely it was you!" - "No!" Political games nonstop.

Absolutely correct - the only difference being of course is that that we KNOW YOU did do it!!!! ( I'm joking.....well, maybe, HALF joking perhaps :-)

[Moses]

we KNOW YOU did do it!!!!

No. You think you know. Because your govt told it. That effect has own name: propaganda.

[Nirish guy]

No. You think you know. Because your govt told it. That effect has own name: propaganda.

I was joking .......but ok, I'm more than happy to go with your "highly likely" as I too think it was "highly likely" your Govt were up to there eyes in it and as guilty as hell. :-)

Our Govt couldn't possibly by wrong or lying to us about that or anything else of course as they would just never do that ! ( OK now you MUST know that I'm not being serious !! lol)

[goji]

Mr Putin's opponents do seem to have a lot of bad luck. Poisoning with Novichok. Polonium poisoning. Getting shot in the back in a heavily policed area outside the Kremlin etc.

[Nirish guy]

ALLEDGEDLY !!! Have you seen the bodies yourself personally, no ? Then you have no proof and you can't blame Mr Putin !!! ( Handy wee get out clause that ain't it :-)

[arsenal]

Russian secret agent's love of cathedral spires is well known and that is why they were in Salisbury. Those two bozos made that perfectly clear when interviewed about why they were there. The fact that a substance used in nuclear arsenal (geddit) and originating in Russia ended up on the streets at the same time is purely circumstantial.

[latintopxxx]

...oh for heavens sake, next you all will claim that we in the west are totally innocent...reason the US is so anti huawei is that they know what can be done when one controls the technology

[Moses]

Russian secret agent's love of cathedral spires is well known and that is why they were in Salisbury. Those two bozos made that perfectly clear when interviewed about why they were there. The fact that a substance used in nuclear arsenal (geddit) and originating in Russia ended up on the streets at the same time is purely circumstantial.

Yeah, and this is totally innocent and "case of Fortune's game" what UK's military laboratory where "novichok" has been tested is located just in 10 miles from Salisbury, correct?

[arsenal]

That is correct. No doubt the two agents are planning trips to see some of the other beautiful cathedrals of Europe. Perhaps in every city where a Russian dissident resides.

[Moses]

Ok. Confirmation about vaccine by Bloomberg:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-20/russian-elite-got-experimental-covid-19-vaccine-from-april

Today announce in mass-medias: Russia will start vaccination of medical personnel in August. Vaccination will be free and on request. After medics they will offer vaccination to firefighters and police.

[Nirish guy]

according to numerous websites Moses that vaccine injection IS still at the experimental stage and hasn't passed all the various stages of clearance it seems ( still waiting on stage 3 test clearance it seems ?) - so IF?? that's so and aside from politics for a second but wondering if you were offered that injection would YOU take it ???

[latintopxxx]

...I'd jump at the opportunity if it meant I could travel and bypass all the quarantine regulations imposed by most countries...its 5 months since I've left the country...thank goodness I got an asian boarder...

[Moses]

according to numerous websites Moses that vaccine injection IS still at the experimental stage and hasn't passed all the various stages of clearance it seems ( still waiting on stage 3 test clearance it seems ?) - so IF?? that's so and aside from politics for a second but wondering if you were offered that injection would YOU take it ???

If they will offer vaccine from Gamaleya lab - I will run there and will accept it without any doubts. It is highest grade lab with high class scientists. Everyone here trusts them - that why these Russian senators and other "elite" take vaccination by them form April so easy even when vaccine is still experimental.

[Moses]

Just announced here: from August 1 will again flights to London, Ankara and Istanbul, from August 10 to Antalya, Bodrum and Dalaman.

Ongoing discussions to open routes from August 15 to Vietnam, Shri-Lanka, Cuba, Egypt, Dominicana, UAE, Maldives, Mexico.

[Nirish guy]

......thank goodness I got an asian boarder...

Not much use though when we're told that we're not allowed to enter any Asian boarders for the time being !? :) lol

[Moses]

Putin today announced state approval and registration of Sputnik V - COVID-19 vaccine. As per him - one of his daughters already got vaccination.

As per Russian minister of health vaccination will starts at September. At first "stage" vaccine will be injected to doctors and other medical staff and teachers in schools. Then other "first line" staff: police, firefighters, rescue services, workers of public transport. For public use it will be available form January 1.

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[goji]

Putin today announced state approval and registration of Sputnik V - COVID-19 vaccine. As per him - one of his daughters already got vaccination.

As per Russian minister of health vaccination will starts at September. At first "stage" vaccine will be injected to doctors and other medical staff and teachers in schools. Then other "first line" staff: police, firefighters, rescue services, workers of public transport. For public use it will be available form January 1.


Have they conducted a double-blind trial & posted the results in a Russian equivalent of The Lancet (Lancetski :) ) for peer review ?
By the story gets to the western press, there is not much detail about such trials, but there must have been some ?

Also, if certain western leaders announced a vaccine would be rolled out, without any prior publication of trial results, it would not be well received.

Of course, I hope it all works out OK and a little competition might just be the boot up the arse that's needed in certain western countries.

[Moses]

Also, if certain western leaders announced a vaccine would be rolled out, without any prior publication of trial results, it would not be well received.


Is it joke? Yes? At past 12 hours Russia got requests from different govts on 1 000 000 000 000 doses of "not well received" vaccine.


Have they conducted a double-blind trial & posted the results in a Russian equivalent of The Lancet (Lancetski :) ) for peer review ?

I doubt they will care to publish results: vaccine is developed by state lab, phase 1 was in military lab, phase 2 was in civil and military institutes (both state owned), phase 3 is still going from June in 1 civilian and 1 military hospitals.

I mean: it is state developed vaccine, it will be manufactured by state for internal use, not for sale. So they don't care about marketing, publication of results and so on. The only proofs what govt gave to public are: openly provided phase 2 and 3 - there are a lot of articles and videos of meetings with volunteers who got injections, Ministry of health officially announced registration of vaccine, president himself announced registration + participation of his daughter in testing.

[goji]

Is it joke?
No. If any western leader tried to rush through a vaccine without publishing large scale test results, there would be a lot of questions asked.
I think this is due to previous cases, such as when president Ford rushed through a vaccine in the 1970s and there were some bad side effects.
More recently, there was a problem with a dengue fever vaccine.
Not everyone reacts to vaccines in the same way & injecting the president's daughter isn't a statistically significant trial.

The Oxford vaccine has a 10,000 person phase 3 trial in the UK, plus trials in Brazil and South Africa. All double blind.

I'm not saying such caution is optimum. But if the western governments launched a vaccine without publishing large scale trial results, I'm sure there would be a lot of dissent.




I doubt they will care to publish results: vaccine is developed by state lab, phase 1 was in military lab, phase 2 was in civil and military institutes (both state owned), phase 3 is still going from June in 1 civilian and 1 military hospitals.I see your point. No one is going to argue with them if there is an unexpected problem with it.

[Moses]

The Oxford vaccine has a 10,000 person phase 3 trial in the UK, plus trials in Brazil and South Africa. All double blind.

I'm not saying such caution is optimum. But if the western governments launched a vaccine without publishing large scale trial results, I'm sure there would be a lot of dissent.

My main point I wrote in another thread. And it is: "not important how wide vaccine is tested, if there is not enough time to watch consequences". Normal test takes 3-4 years for to find all consequences what brings injection of vaccine. Today no one country will wait 3-4 years. No one. So 10000 or 1000 or even 100 does no matter, if they will be under health control only 3-4 months after injection.

I'm sure:
- first vaccine will be not the best (as it was with first test for COVID-19 in January-February) and next versions of vaccine will be much better than first is
- every (yes, every!) company and lab will be under pressure from their respective govt to lunch their vaccine as soon as possible

[latintopxxx]

if its good enough for the wealthy elite then I guess its good enough for me...wonder if I can order if off the Russian equivalent of eBay

[Moses]

if its good enough for the wealthy elite then I guess its good enough for me...wonder if I can order if off the Russian equivalent of eBay

I doubt if here will be sales. This vaccine must be frozen (-18C) all time before to be injected, as per labels on published photos.

[StevieWonders]

I’d expect that the Russian military’s extensive experience in planning for biological warfare has been an excellent basis for developing a vaccine. As Moses has said, this is obvious from the references to military bases

[a447]

Putin today announced state approval and registration of Sputnik V

The name they chose is Putin's not so subtle way of saying "Up yours, America!"

[goji]

I have some sympathy with Moses's view that there should be some urgency to vaccine development.

However, I'd still want to see trial results for ~10,000 people in a double blind trial.

Here's an example of independent press comment on the Russian vaccine: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/11/world/europe/russia-coronavirus-vaccine-approval.html

Of course, I'd still like to see the west accelerate things a little. If we look at the Russian case, where Moses informs us that they've run some trials in hospital, it follows that they have probably deliberately infected people in order to check the results. I think that's a good idea, as long as they were volunteers.

In contrast, the Oxford vaccine has expanded the trial to Brazil & South Africa, in order to get more exposure to random infections.
Considering the potential to accelerate vaccine development, at minimal risk AND with a lower net death rate, I think deliberately infecting volunteers should be considered in the west as well. ie Copy some methods which must have been used in Russia.

Finally, if Mr Putin has announced this vaccine before a phase 3 trial is complete, then obviously if phase 3 trials show some side effects, then "commitment bias" will make it more difficult to cancel the vaccine.

[goji]

Another example of media comment.
I don't agree with everything in it, as the writer does not know what test Russia HAS done to prove the vaccine is effective. However, it does flag up the main concerns over the difference in approach & indentifies why Russia is so quick.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/12/we-have-no-idea-if-the-russian-covid-vaccine-is-safe-or-effective

[Moses]

However, I'd still want to see trial results for ~10,000 people in a double blind trial.


Why you need trial results when Sputnik-V will be used in Russia? Govt told what they will not distribute vaccine abroad until time when local needs will be fulfilled. But they accepted offers form some countries to build up manufacturing plants in these countries on 50/50.

[goji]

Why you need trial results when Sputnik-V will be used in Russia?

I don't. My comments were based on what I would want to see before taking it myself.
If anyone else on the planet wants to take it based on their own assessment, that's their choice.

I'd happily take the Russian vaccine myself, as long as I could see independent test data, with a suitable sample size.
However, at present, it would appear that the main difference between the Russian vaccine and (for example), the Oxford vaccine, is the Russian one is declared available before any phase 3 trial results are published.

[latintopxxx]

I find it sad that some of us refuse to accept that anything good can come out of Russia....

[arsenal]

Caviar.

[francois]

Vodka.

[dinagam]

Vodka.

How beneficial is it if administered by injection or IV drip?

[francois]

How beneficial is it if administered by injection or IV drip?

I prefer by oral injection although I have read it can be by rectal injection.

[goji]

I find it sad that some of us refuse to accept that anything good can come out of Russia....

Has anyone here taken such a stance ?

Whether the vaccine is manufactured in Russia or the UK, knowing that in both cases there's pressure to bring a vaccine out as fast as possible, I'd want to see the same standard of trial results.

I've also had dealings with numerous Russians at my former employer. They were well educated and generally very impressive.

[latintopxxx]

goji...the whole tone is one of extreme doubt disguised as concern..." i hope they follow accepted protocols"...but if its the oxford uni vaccine...then yay...no " i hope they follow accepted protocols"...

[Nirish guy]

Thats not how i read Goji's comments at all - and why is it so hard to believe that we can ( and should) all NOT have genuine concern for each other as citizens of the World just rather than always our respective Countries.

We all know and agree I'm sure that ALL of our mutual governments would blatantly lie to their own citizens at any time it suited them and such is the pressure both medically, economically and world PR status wise for all of them to be the first to develop a working vaccine ALL of them would I'm sure cut corners if they thought they can ( and if they thought they'd get away with it for a while and at least then be able to go back to fix ther "mistake" later ).

So for Goji and others to express concern that the Russian appears to be jumping an entire testing schedule ( rightly or wrongly) and urging caution re that as its a different time line than the accepted one in the west isn't to me "point scoring" but more flagging up a genuine concern and helping to cut through the propaganda that we're all fed by our respective governments.

Me personally I think I'll take my chances and let a few hundred thousand people take whatever comes out before rushing off to get injected myself so I can be half sure that people aren't dropping like flies 6 months after taking it as lets not forget that that the now infamous drug Thalidomide was also prescribed for various conditions, one of which was to treat "flu like" symptoms and it took them FOUR YEARS from it's release until they withdrew before they realised it's terrible side effects on pregnant women!!

[bkkguy]

interesting article in The Economist (https://www.economist.com/leaders/2020/08/08/the-world-is-spending-nowhere-near-enough-on-a-coronavirus-vaccine) last week castigating various (mostly western) governments about spending $10bn on pre-production of "unproven vaccines" - their conclusion being having spent $7trn on pandemic related economic and social support policies "it would make sense for the world to spend as much as $200bn on bringing forward an effective covid-19 vaccine by just one week"

[goji]

interesting article in The Economist (https://www.economist.com/leaders/2020/08/08/the-world-is-spending-nowhere-near-enough-on-a-coronavirus-vaccine) last week castigating various (mostly western) governments about spending $10bn on pre-production of "unproven vaccines" - their conclusion being having spent $7trn on pandemic related economic and social support policies "it would make sense for the world to spend as much as $200bn on bringing forward an effective covid-19 vaccine by just one week"

Governments have been spending at risk to accelerate a covid vaccine. It would only make sense to spend an extra $200 billion if it stands a chance of being effective in accelerating the development.

Taking a few risks on the development itself would make sense to me. eg Deliberately infecting healthy volunteers, to get the sample size up quickly.

[arsenal]

"Deliberately infecting healthy volunteers, to get the sample size up quickly."

Ah yes. 'Volunteers.' I read that Pfizer is having trouble finding enough to do the research.

Of course in countries like Russia and China, unencumbered by such niceties as human rights and pesky supreme courts they can use the incarcerated population for this.

[Moses]

Of course in countries like Russia and China, unencumbered by such niceties as human rights and pesky supreme courts they can use the incarcerated population for this.

Yes-yes. It is in Russia poli vaccine was tested on orphans kids and on mentally disabled people... Oh. Stop. It was in New York.

[Zebedee]

Sorry Moses just Joking

[goji]

The newspapers have, as expected, criticized Mr Putin for announcing a vaccine without a proper phase 3 trial to confirm effectiveness and side effects.

I imagine Mr Trump would be rather keen to announce a vaccination programme in the next 2.5 months, with or without a phase 3 trial completed. He's probably been advised not to. If he does so anyway, expect much more prominent criticism from the media than Mr Putin has received.

[dinagam]

Both Putin and Trump are playing their part well in this game.

[bkkguy]

Kal's cartoon (https://www.economist.com/the-world-this-week/2020/08/15/kals-cartoon) in The Economist this week:

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[StevieWonders]

I see the Vietnamese have said they’re in the market for the Russian vaccine and a few news stories about Putin selling it to other Asian countries - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vietnam-vaccine-idUSKCN25A0M0

[Moses]

I see the Vietnamese have said they’re in the market for the Russian vaccine and a few news stories about Putin selling it to other Asian countries - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vietnam-vaccine-idUSKCN25A0M0

Govt told here what at next 12 hours after vaccine announce, they got 1.ooo.ooo.ooo doses requests.

[Moses]

First photos from manufacturing plant: ready to delivery vaccine. Boxes labeled in Russian "Not for sale, for use in hospitals and clinics, check instruction inside". Bulbs labeled "keep freezed below -18C in dark place"

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[goji]

I see the Vietnamese have said they’re in the market for the Russian vaccine

It is sensible for governments to keep their options open.

The Russian vaccine MIGHT work very well with minimal side effects. However, this is generally considered unproven until there's a large and independent phase 3 trial. Quite a lot of drugs and vaccines don't pass the phase 3 trial.

Responsible governments can negotiate supply of a few thousand for their own phase 3 trial, followed up by millions for the population, conditional on trial results. And nutters like Duterte will say he'll inject himself and take the vaccine right now.

[Moses]

The Russian vaccine MIGHT work very well with minimal side effects.

You still not got? It is the same vector vaccine like Oxford. If chosen vector is safe, then vaccine itself is safe as well. In Sputnik-5 they use as a vector harmless for human adenovirus. The only "side effects" possible - personal tolerability (?) to its components: allergy and in rare cases anaphilactique shock. That why it should be used in hospitals and clinics only. Only questionable moment for rest tests: how effective it will be and for how long time.

[arsenal]

Shiploads of experimental phase 3 vaccines on the way to the Siberian gulags as we speak. At least I hope so.

A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The best book I have ever read.

[goji]

You still not got? It is the same vector vaccine like Oxford. If chosen vector is safe, then vaccine itself is safe as well.

1 It's a similar vaccine to the Oxford vaccine. No country has approved the Oxford vaccine without phase 3 trials.

2 The majority of countries in the world are waiting for phase 3 trial results before deciding to approve it for application. Mr Putin has decided not to wait for phase 3 trials, which is the key difference.

3 Large scale phase 3 trials are usually required to prove the vaccine is safe, with no side effects. As the side effects might only be evident in a small proportion of people, a large trial is normally considered necessary.

Which part of that have I not understood ?

[Moses]

1 It's a similar vaccine to the Oxford vaccine. No country has approved the Oxford vaccine without phase 3 trials.

1. Yes, because it is commercial vaccine and it need to be tested in full for sale, "which is key difference"



2 The majority of countries in the world are waiting for phase 3 trial results before deciding to approve it for application. Mr Putin has decided not to wait for phase 3 trials, which is the key difference.

2. Yes, because Sputnik-5 is free to distribute state vaccine, "which is key difference"


3 Large scale phase 3 trials are usually required to prove the vaccine is safe, with no side effects. As the side effects might only be evident in a small proportion of people, a large trial is normally considered necessary.

3. For vector vaccines all side effects are the same what has vector itself. If you choose safe vector then vaccine itself will be the same safe as vector is. If Oxford vaccine still need to be tested for safety reason then that means what choosen vector isn't safe enough or is not studied enough at past, "which is key difference"



Which part of that have I not understood ?

Looks like all 3.

[goji]

Well, I have obviously failed to understand that a vaccine requires less testing if it's free issued rather than sold. I even thought the safety risks are the same, whether the vaccine is free or paid for.

The Philippines seems to think a phase 3 trial is required for this vaccine: https://www.dw.com/en/philippines-plans-russian-coronavirus-vaccine-clinical-trials-in-october/a-54548273

[Nirish guy]

The Philippines seems to think a phase 3 trial is required for this vaccine

Oh well at least they're err'ing on the side of caution there, unlike their President giving out advice saying that poor Flipinos
should wash their masks in Petrol if they have nothing else and then when his staff issued a statement saying " well OBVIOUSLY the President was joking there" he immediately issued a second statement saying "no I bloody wasn't !!"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53605108

Weirdly on talking to a Flipino about this at the weekend ( who is a Duterte supporter actually) his take on it was that Duretrei said it as he was pissed off with the "poor people" who have totally ignored all government advice and it's THEIR FAULT that covid is running riot in the Ph's ( god for yet another politician takes any responsibility eh, some things never change !)

[bkkguy]

3. For vector vaccines all side effects are the same what has vector itself. If you choose safe vector then vaccine itself will be the same safe as vector is. If Oxford vaccine still need to be tested for safety reason then that means what choosen vector isn't safe enough or is not studied enough at past, "which is key difference"

yet the day before you said


It is the same vector vaccine like Oxford. If chosen vector is safe, then vaccine itself is safe as well. In Sputnik-5 they use as a vector harmless for human adenovirus.

From the Oxford team (https://www.research.ox.ac.uk/Article/2020-07-19-the-oxford-covid-19-vaccine):


The ChAdOx1 vaccine is a chimpanzee adenovirus vaccine vector. This is a harmless, weakened adenovirus that usually causes the common cold in chimpanzees. ChAdOx1 was chosen as the most suitable vaccine technology for a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine as it has been shown to generate a strong immune response from one dose in other vaccines. It has been genetically changed so that it is impossible for it to grow in humans. This also makes it safer to give to children, the elderly and anyone with a pre-existing condition such as diabetes. Chimpanzee adenoviral vectors are a very well-studied vaccine type, having been used safely in thousands of subjects.

so if the Oxford teams' adenovirus vector "isn't safe enough or is not studied enough at past" what is the clinical evidence for the "key difference" between the Oxford and Sputnik-5 vector that you base your claim that the Sputnik-5 team "use as a vector harmless for human adenovirus" and thus phase III trial results are not required?

and the choice of the name "Sputnik" is historically neutral?

[Moses]

yet the day before you said


It is the same vector vaccine like Oxford
You know - my English isn't best. Under "the same" I meant - it is also vector vaccine. I had no idea which vector they use (till now). Gamalei lab uses human adenovirus. It is studied enough. So for Sputnik-5 3rd phase of trial should just show how effective it is and how long antibodies will exists after been generated by vaccination. We will see it at next few months when medics and teachers will be vaccinated (vaccination is free and is by their choice, no forced vaccination).

And it is solely choice of Oxford how long and wide they want to test vaccine with shimpanze's adenovirus vector on phase 3. I have no idea how deep this virus is studied for to count vaccine safe or not.



and the choice of the name "Sputnik" is historically neutral?
Should it be neutral? :)

[latintopxxx]

...love the game the Russians are playing...goading others working on a vaccine to hurry the fuck up...havent got all year to waste on niceties...

[siscu58]

Reading all the posts in this thread I come to a conclusion: Not only politicians are good immunologists as Mr. Trump or Duterte have proved many times but also being a member of a gay forum turns people into vaccination experts. I am very impressed. I admit that it is not my case. And I prefer to adhere to what truly reputable scientists have to say.

[arsenal]

Well said siscu58. That would be a great name for a vaccine I think. Much better than Sputnik.

[goji]

Even Duterte says he will take it in May 2021 AFTER a phase 3 trial.

[Moses]

Meanwhile one more Russian state organisation announced today what they finished phase 2 of tests of another vaccine.

"Vector" institute. Located in the middle of Siberia. Formerly military facility and manufacturer of about 50% of Soviet biological weapons. Past 25 years they are developers of vaccines against Ebola, SARS and so on. Vector is WHO's reference laboratory. They have P-4 class laboratory and are one of two in world laboratories to whom WHO allows to work with smallpox (second is CDC lab in Atlanta).

https://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/russia/vector.htm

"Vector" announced what they finished phase 2 with 89 volunteers, found zero side effects. They will start phase 3 from September. Their vaccine is "classical" vaccine with killed viruses.

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[StevieWonders]

Meanwhile one more Russian state organisation announced today what they finished phase 2 of tests of another vaccine.

"Vector" institute. Located in the middle of Siberia. Formerly military facility and manufacturer of about 50% of Soviet biological weapons. Past 25 years they are developers of vaccines against Ebola, SARS and so on. Vector is WHO's reference laboratory. They have P-4 class laboratory and are one of two in world laboratories to whom WHO allows to work with smallpox (second is CDC lab in Atlanta).

https://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/russia/vector.htm

"Vector" announced what they finished phase 2 with 89 volunteers, found zero side effects. They will start phase 3 from September. Their vaccine is "classical" vaccine with killed viruses.

10253Presumably the Magnitsky Act and similar will be effective against any attempt to profit from these Russian vaccines

[StevieWonders]

Perhaps Alexei Navalny is part of the COVID-19 vaccine tests?

[cdnmatt]

Reading all the posts in this thread I come to a conclusion: Not only politicians are good immunologists as Mr. Trump or Duterte have proved many times but also being a member of a gay forum turns people into vaccination experts. I am very impressed. I admit that it is not my case. And I prefer to adhere to what truly reputable scientists have to say.

Exactly. Think I'll wait for something to get out of phase III trials, and be peer reviewed by the worldwide community of researchers and doctors who actually know what they're talking about.

[goji]

I suppose they need a name for this Siberian vaccine. How about Covichok ?



As for dissing armchair vaccine experts:

1 From the thread title, it's clear we're talking about vaccines and surprise surprise, you're not going to get Professor Gilbert or Dr Fauci writing posts here.

2 Vaccines are a topic of interest to many of us, as it's one of the routes out of this Covid mess.

3 With the possible exception of one post, I don't see anyone claiming to be experts on vaccines here. It's just people quoting material they have read. Also, it makes perfect sense to follow vaccine development, as if any of us have the option of paying for a private vaccine in the foreseeable future, we might just want to know something about it.

Anyone not interested can just take note of the thread title and read something else.

[cdnmatt]

Hate to break it to everyone, but there is no vaccine coming. There's a flu shot coming, the current annual flu shot is about 40% effective in a good year, and you can expect the same for the KoVid-19 "vaccine" unless there's some amazing breakthroughts in medical technology.

With current technilogy at least, developing a vaccine ala mealses, typhoid, hepatitis and others for KoVid-19 is impossible. Same as there is no cure for the common cold, type of thing. We don't know how to vaccinate against influenza yet.

[bkkguy]

As for dissing armchair vaccine experts:

as a hobby that is about as pointless as playing Wack-A-Mole



Anyone not interested can just take note of the thread title and read something else.

you are I think missing the point - this thread has run for almost a month, has 8 pages and more than 3,200 "views". Moses can probably do some investigation to get the number of unique IP addresses that have viewed this thread at least once and from this guestimate the number of actual site visitors that have viewed this thread but the number is probably at least in the hundreds, and judging by the posts, for many of these people this could be the only, or one of the main, sources of information on this topic. multiply that by the millions of forums like this around the world, then add in twitter and facebook and you can see why half of the world's population is drowning in misinformation!

more useful advice may be "Anyone interested should spend their time reading more reliable information elsewhere"

[dinagam]

I look at this vaccine development as something similar to the plaster or plasticene model being formed by a sculptor before he works on the final media. The difference is in the methodology and skills. Thus I shall wait patiently for the final outcome. I am looking forward to a perfect David similar to the one produced by Michaelangelo.

[Nirish guy]

I am looking forward to a perfect David similar to the one produced by Michaelangelo.

PERFECT !?? Have you seen the small size of the cock on that fella, I've seen it up close and trust me thats far from perfect for many of us on here !! lol

[dinagam]

PERFECT !?? Have you seen the small size of the cock on that fella, I've seen it up close and trust me thats far from perfect for many of us on here !! lol

He's a grower.
Have patience.

[goji]

......you can see why half of the world's population is drowning in misinformation!

more useful advice may be "Anyone interested should spend their time reading more reliable information elsewhere"

Anyone who applies a filter should not be misinformed by this thread.

I think most can recognise what is purely the opinion of certain members, with no supporting evidence to support the hypothesis (e.g. post by cdnmatt above).

Other posts contain information which is sometimes backed up by links to more informed & reliable sources. [Therefore in line with your recommendations]

I've found links posted on other sites to be quite interesting and slowly I improve my understanding of the topic from zero, to just a fraction more than naff all.

[Nirish guy]

He's a grower. Have patience.

Patience !! 520 years and it hasn't grown an INCH !! To hell with that and to hell with it being "culture" - if he's not hung like a horse and with balls like a bull he can go back to just standing there trying to look less gay than he probably was as I for one am not interested !! :-)

[a447]

Well, if truth be known, David started off being hung like the proverbial horse.

But hundreds of years of women touching his cock for good luck caused it to go from 10 inches to 3, and from uncut to cut.

[latintopxxx]

...bit like Ronaldo's brass statue in Madeira....the groin area is so shiny from being rubbed ....lol

[Nirish guy]

Well, if truth be known, David started off being hung like the proverbial horse.

But hundreds of years of women touching his cock for good luck caused it to go from 10 inches to 3, and from uncut to cut.

Well from now on I think I'm going to use that excuse myself then !! Actually there could well be some truth to it too as I swear this thing used to be bigger !! ( or perhaps it's just my seemingly ever expanding cover lock down belly that's making it LOOK that way ! ;-)

[latintopxxx]

...at last I find u humorous...well done...

[bkkguy]

Well, if truth be known, David started off being hung like the proverbial horse.
But hundreds of years of women touching his cock for good luck caused it to go from 10 inches to 3
Well from now on I think I'm going to use that excuse myself then !!

while you're having been around hundres of years is mildly surprising, having so many women touching your cock over that time that it is has shrunk is much more surprising - or does it just wither at the mere touch of a woman's hand?

[Nirish guy]

Ha I wasn't of course referring to the hundreds of years so much as to the touching.....and yeah to be fair I've had a few women do the fondling too over the years, I'm an equal opportunity employer, I never liked to restrict work for any one sector of society - i guess another description for would perhaps just be "big whore" :) I should add that was in my wilder days, I am now a mere shadow of my former self, with an ever shrinking cock ( apparently) and an ever expanding waistine !! ( if only I could get nature to work in reverse for a while !! :)

[dinagam]

A prescription from a reputable optician for a pair of magnifying lens for the spectacles would be of some help, if you are long-sighted.

[Khor tose]

Meanwhile one more Russian state organisation announced today what they finished phase 2 of tests of another vaccine.

"Vector" institute. Located in the middle of Siberia. Formerly military facility and manufacturer of about 50% of Soviet biological weapons. Past 25 years they are developers of vaccines against Ebola, SARS and so on. Vector is WHO's reference laboratory. They have P-4 class laboratory and are one of two in world laboratories to whom WHO allows to work with smallpox (second is CDC lab in Atlanta).

"Vector" announced what they finished phase 2 with 89 volunteers, found zero side effects. They will start phase 3 from September. Their vaccine is "classical" vaccine with killed viruses.

10253
I wish them luck and hope they don't blow themselves up this time.

[arsenal]

I hope the doors are clearly marked.
VACCINES
MURDER POISONS

A mix up would be tricky.