From Globe-Trotting to Home Trotting

[Dodger]

When I was growing up the only people I knew who were taking vacations to foreign countries were rich people and couples celebrating their silver anniversaries who saved their money for years to finance such a lavish trip, commonly referred to as “The trip of a lifetime”. These days, due to globalization and the availability of cheap airline flights, globe-trotting is now considered common practice, where a taxi driver from Brooklyn can afford to fly off to Madrid for a vacation without breaking the bank. Now that international travel has been tossed into the “High Risk” category thanks to Covid-19, all bets are off.

Regardless of when countries decide to lift international travel bans, it looks like tourism, as we knew it before C-19, will take years if not decades to fully recover. That, coupled with the fact that many people won’t be able to afford the vaccine when it’s first released, which is now being estimated at $7,000 U.S. dollars a shot. The rich and famous will be the first ones in line, and of course those working abroad, where the vaccine may possibly be paid for by their employers, but as far as the taxi driver from Brooklyn is concerned, he’ll probably opt to put off getting the vaccine until the price comes down and be satisfied with taking a fishing trip in Baraboo Wisconsin versus his routine vacation in Madrid. That said, domestic tourism certainly seems like the way things are headed….everywhere.

I can’t speak too much about other countries, but U.S. cities like Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Key West, New York, San Francisco and even my old stomping grounds in Chicago have very active and vibrant gay scenes, as does London and other major cities across Europe… with plenty of potential bed mates in the apps as well. So, for the domestic gay sex tourist all hope isn’t lost.

Maybe globe-trotting was causing the planet to spin too fast. Maybe it’s time to take a breather…re-calibrate….appreciate what we have at home a bit more…give nature time to re-balance…who knows? According to a recent article in the Bangkok Post, the Thai government is seriously considering closing its 300 national parks for 4 months per year due to the significant improvements witnessed in the park ecosystems during this Covid-19 outbreak, i.e. cleaner air, cleaner water, increase in fish and wildlife population, healthier plant life, etc.

I really can’t see Thailand benefiting too much from “Domestic Tourism” for the mere fact that Thailand holds the record for having the largest divide between the rich and the poor in the world (1% of the population controlling +60% of the wealth) and a large percentage of the middle-class are now unemployed and/or financially destitute. The poor people, who represent the largest percentage of the population, just got poorer, and even before Covid-19 their idea of a holiday was (is) cranking up the karaoke speakers in the back yard and getting drunk.

I know the Tourist Authority is creaming in their jeans at the opportunity to open the doors to the Chinese again, but I’m not so sure the government is willing to accept that risk. I could be wrong, but hope I’m not. One more big wave of Covid-19 would put Thailand back in the stone age…not that they’re far from it now.

[arsenal]

Nice post.

Why is the Brooklyn guy going to Madrid? It's nothing special.

The vaccine won't cost $7000 in Europe but will most likely be free. The problem will be supply.

The London scene has depleted considerably over the years. A mb in Western countries is unlikely to accept less than 100 pounds, dollars or euros.

Fishing in Baraboo, Wisconsin sounds wonderful.

And most importantly.
WE WANT TO GO TO THAILAND and we don't much care about anything else. 4 1/2 months since my last visit. The longest gap for 10 years.

[Oliver2]

I've visited most of Europe and a little of the US. And I'm not returning, even for French food in Paris and the music of Wagner in Germany...loved though they are.

For me now, the significant goal of foreign travel travel is to immerse myself in a culture that is not White-European and to enjoy the differences. And so the places I recall with most affection are Senegal, Zanzibar and Morocco for the vibrancy and edginess of the culture, Palestine for her brave, kind and noble people, Egypt for its peerless River Nile and its dramatic history, the Caribbean, particularly Grenada, for its scenic beauty and good-humoured population....and Thailand for the gentle beauty and sexual allure of its people. That's where my heart lies (even if my soul is in Palestine) and that's where I wish to be. Now.

And for me, it's six months of painful absence, an absence which no other country can fill.

[Zebedee]

I read Dodgers post as advice to help people from US who are unable to travel to Thailand, by letting them know of alternative "local " gay destinations. He was not ( my understanding ) trying to suggest the US or other destinations are better than Thailand...he lives in Thailand. It would be difficult to find a better gay destination than Thailand. Regardless of how much we miss visiting Thailand the cold hard fact is we will not be able to travel there for quite some time!

Recent increases in new cases of Covid-19, UK, US, Israel,Spain, Australia, Germany,...and the European winter is approaching.

[Manforallseasons]

.That's where my heart lies (even if my soul is in Palestine) and that's where I wish to be. Now..

Though your “soul is in Palestine” I am sure you are aware how dangerous it is for gays living there so much so that many do what ever they can to escape to the gayness of Israel!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3211772.stm

[Blueskytoday]

I think,,When a vaccine is made...governments will purchase the drug....Hospitals,first responders, critically ill will first get the vaccine..then older persons and then down the ranks...and I think all costs will be borne by the governments themselves, or charge a minimal fee for the injections..this idea of Thousands of dollars for a shot is silly..will never happen

[latintopxxx]

if oliver was a turkey he's vote for thanks giving....silly man. They throw people like us off buildings and hang us from construction cranes in that shit hole peopled with those "brave kind noble" people....

[Marc K]

Hi Oliver, I share you affinity to and respect for Palestine and her people. A truly courageous people, and one of the most intelligent I have ever met. As for all that ugly talk above, most westerners don't know that there is a sizable and robust Christian population in Palestine -- especially in Ramallah (which is more or less a Christian town) and in Bethlehem (perhaps for obvious reasons). A truly amazing place. My favorite place in Palestine is/was the old city in Nablus (I love knafeh!) I say "was" because it has suffered near total destruction from systematic Israeli bombing (using US-build F-15s).

[arsenal]

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Steven Weinberg.

Moslems and Christians. History's greatest race to see which could inflict greater evil on humanity. Up there with slavery and the holocaust.

[Dodger]

For me now, the significant goal of foreign travel travel is to immerse myself in a culture that is not White-European and to enjoy the differences. And so the places I recall with most affection are Senegal, Zanzibar and Morocco for the vibrancy and edginess of the culture, Palestine for her brave, kind and noble people, Egypt for its peerless River Nile and its dramatic history, the Caribbean, particularly Grenada, for its scenic beauty and good-humoured population....and Thailand for the gentle beauty and sexual allure of its people. That's where my heart lies (even if my soul is in Palestine) and that's where I wish to be. Now.

And for me, it's six months of painful absence, an absence which no other country can fill.

I really can't see domestic tourism flourishing in some of the destinations you mentioned (virus or no virus), but, whatever floats your boat.

I've never even considered visiting a place like Palestine because I could be killed there for being gay. I mean hell, I'm going on holiday to have a good time - not to get my head cut off for pinching some guys ass. As far as Zanzibar (Tanzania) you can receive a 30 year prison sentence for being gay there. I'm sure the prisons in Tanzania are clean, well-maintained, and safe, but I'd rather take a pass on this as well and visit a place where I won't die.

[Oliver2]

"Killed for being gay"? Plenty of British gays ( and probably US ones too) as well as me, have found this to be a racial slur. Colonised people in Africa, Asia and elsewhere have always been victims of demonisation and none more so than Palestinians. Colonisation requires it.

In my thirteen years, I had a number of near things despite being an abject coward.....the average ten year-old Palestinian is braver than me, I can assure you. The threats came from callow adolescents with guns in the Israeli Army, not from the indigenous people. On one occasion, a Palestinian shopkeeper hid me from them, at considerable risk to himself. I had taken a forbidden photograph.

I can only post from my own experience and recount something that I've mentioned before on another site.

In 2010, P was desperately ill in hospital. It was touch and go. My closest Palestinian friend who'd spoken to him on the phone but of course had never met him, a devout Muslim, wished to pray for him at Al Aqsa in Jerusalem and spent a morning traversing two checkpoints with their ignorant young soldiers and "security"officers, armed to the teeth and drunk with power. It was a two-hour journey although M's home is only about eight miles away; he wasn't allowed, of course, on the white-folks-only roads, although they were in his own country. His eight-mile journey was forty miles by road. But that's the way things are when you have a foreign army in charge.

Anyway, he made it, and said his prayers. When I phoned him not long afterwards, I thanked him and had to smile; it was probably the first time ever that a straight Muslim had prayed for a gay Buddhist, the lover of a gay Christian....and in the third most holy site in Islam.

The Lord Allah (or perhaps the lord Buddha) answered his prayers and P survived. I can tell you that P was deeply moved; he recognised that love transcends religious differences.

There are plenty of gay Palestinians and they have their own support group. Men and women. I don't claim that M's open-mindedness is typical- he's the same when it comes to women's rights- but the far-right Zionist nationalists who control Israel and the US Christian Evangelicals who fund them are worse and haven't the excuse of having to struggle day by day to survive in their own homeland.

I recognise only two things about my life of which I am genuinely proud; firstly my love for P which demanded that I stay with him in his most desperate times; and secondly, my work for the people of Palestine. But perhaps "proud" is the wrong word; grateful is more appropriate because anything I've given has been returned to me a hundred-fold.

[latintopxxx]

...cuckooo....cuckoo....

[goji]

I think,,When a vaccine is made...governments will purchase the drug....Hospitals,first responders, critically ill will first get the vaccine..then older persons and then down the ranks...and I think all costs will be borne by the governments themselves, or charge a minimal fee for the injections..this idea of Thousands of dollars for a shot is silly..will never happen

Governments in many countries will purchase the vaccine.

Also, if the first vaccine is developed by a reputable pharma company, they won't price gouge, due to the certain damage to their reputation from price gouging. For instance, Astra Zeneca say the Oxford Vaccine would be supplied at cost. This probably means a modest profit after some creative accounting.

As for paying for it, well if we get to the situation where a vaccine is available and my ****ing useless local NHS surgery is slow rolling it out, I'd happily pay a couple of hundred for a private vaccine. Maybe more. Particularly if it meant getting vaccinated before a long holiday.
Incidentally, the google review score for my local surgery is 1.8, so clearly their other customers consider it well below average. Thanks to the lack of competition, we're stuck with them.

On the original topic, of where we can go. Well, yes I can pop into London for a day trip. I believe we can indeed fly to Madrid, or better, Barcelona. Although I just read that Barcelona is heading into another lockdown.

None of these destinations rivals Thailand. In particular, they don't have smooth slim Asian boys available and when we get to the middle of Winter, Thailand will be about 30C and Barcelona will be about 13C.

[latintopxxx]

...I'll just fly to BK and getb it at mynregular pharmacy where I get all my (legal) drugs...omg...I'm not a peasant...not gonna stand in a Q....

[a447]

I think the government will pay for the vaccine because they are desperate to get the economy back on track.

They would see the cost as a good investment.

[arsenal]

But Latin old bean, you might not be allowed into Thailand without having been vaccinated. Got a plan B?

[Dodger]

China should pay for every single vaccination in every single country that's been victimized by yet another deadly virus spawned on their soil.

It's not a matter of "if" another pandemic will be manufactured in China but "when". Where's the accountability?

We get sucked into a global recession...tens of thousands of people die... and China's back rocking & rolling again. What's wrong with this picture?

[goji]

China should pay for every single vaccination in every single country that's been victimized by yet another deadly virus spawned on their soil.

Well that's not going to happen. What MIGHT happen, is next time they create a virus, outbound travel might be shut off much more quickly, as other governments will not listen to the dreadful advice from the fuckwits at the WHO.

[Moses]

China should pay for every single vaccination in every single country that's been victimized by yet another deadly virus spawned on their soil.

It's not a matter of "if" another pandemic will be manufactured in China but "when". Where's the accountability?

We get sucked into a global recession...tens of thousands of people die... and China's back rocking & rolling again. What's wrong with this picture?

I think China "should pay" right after Christianity will pay for inquisition and Crusaders, Germany will pay for WW II, USA will pay for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, France will pay for atoll Moruroa... let's do it step by step: first troubled - first paid.

Ohhh... and I forgot to mention slavery.

[Manforallseasons]

I think China "should pay" right after Christianity will pay for inquisition and Crusaders, Germany will pay for WW II, USA will pay for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, France will pay for atoll Moruroa... let's do it step by step: first troubled - first paid.

Ohhh... and I forgot to mention slavery.

What should Russia pay for? Where to begin? Russia’s backing of the murderer President of Syria or perhaps the wars in Chechnya, or how about the shooting down is the Malaysian airline plane or perhaps the shooting down of a Korean passenger plane or the invasion of Crimea, Georgia, Afghanistan etc. etc. etc.

[arsenal]

China and Russia are the same. They share a similar history and they are forever damned by it. They remind me of the scorpion and The frog.

http://www.allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html

[Moses]

What should Russia pay for? Where to begin? Russia’s backing of the murderer President of Syria or perhaps the wars in Chechnya, or how about the shooting down is the Malaysian airline plane or perhaps the shooting down of a Korean passenger plane or the invasion of Crimea, Georgia, Afghanistan etc. etc. etc.

Well. Russia should pay, yes. But do you remember? Step by step. Inquisition and Crusaders were far before 20th century. So lets calculate payments for 9-13 centuries first...

Then we will start to collect debts for slavery of millions... right?

After it we will count hundreds times cancer rate growing after thousands of nuclear tests... tens of millions of victims. Oh I also forgot to mention genocide of native Americans... how you said it? "Chechnia"?

[arsenal]

Chernobyl!

[Moses]

Chernobyl!

Yes. Formerly USSR. Now Ukraine.

[goji]

Every current and former great power has a few skeletons in the cupboard. The US fewer than most. Some other large countries run by dictators are continually adding to their collection.

As far as I know, reparations usually only get paid by force, from a defeated country to the victor. This has a pretty patchy track record. Reparations after WW1 screwed the German economy to such an extent that Hitler eventually got elected. After WW2, we had a totally different policy.

No one will be paying compensation for Covid.

[Moses]

Yesterday at UN GS told in speech: 26 persons in world control 50% of world wealth.

I think world should take a look close on how this wealth has been absorbed and how much crimes are hidden behind this amount of gold.

[dinagam]

I agree with Moses.
Not only that they have to pay up, but with additional compound interests. Pot calling kettle...

As for Latin, he might just appear on Dongtan Beach as a transsexual mermaid to the bewilderment of the Thai immigration.

[latintopxxx]

...26 people control 50% of the worlds wealth...got any links to this speech??

[latintopxxx]

...and anyway...dont the Chinese boast that they have the universes oldest most ancient civilization as in 50000 years ago whilst we hairy knuckle dragging farangs lived in caves they lounged on silk cushions...based on that they must have conquered their way to wealth..so they got lots to account and pay for...

[Zebedee]

wow! This topic has gone a teensy weensy bit off topic, I blame Dodger and as reparation he must pay the boy's off fees for all posters until we are "butterflied" to death.

[latintopxxx]

...agree...

[arsenal]

Zebs wrote.
" wow! This topic has gone a teensy weensy bit off topic, I blame Dodger and as reparation he must pay the boy's off fees for all posters until we are "butterflied" to death."

Disagree. Dodgers post was On Golden Pond, Terms of Endearment stuff. It was Oliver who opened fire first by introducing Palestine into a thread about holidays. Oliver must pay the reparations. Cough up Ollie. Haha.

[Zebedee]

This guy (in the middle with hands crossed), although would settle for the guy on the right might be a bit pricey,but Dodger is loaded!
Airfares,Rtn. Perth
Quarantine,
Corona Medical Cert, ( also his little butt might need medical attention afterwards)...can't make an omelette without breaking eggs!
Accommodation, Food (fresh tuna only ) and whatever else his little heart desires,
TIP , ( Japanese rates apply ) oh yeah, we're talking looonnggg time!

Thanks Dodger-I'll await express delivery.

[Oliver2]

Reparations? me? No , I deserve a medal for writing posts that inform, educate, stimulate and annoy Latin....posts that include neither the word "coronavirus", nor reflections on the cost of an off. I am inclined to begin posting a weekly comment on the crimes of Western Imperialism.

[Moses]

...26 people control 50% of the worlds wealth...got any links to this speech??

shortly https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/07/1068611
full speech https://www.nelsonmandela.org/news/entry/annual-lecture-2020-secretary-general-guterress-full-speech


The 26 richest people in the world hold as much wealth as half the global population.

[Dodger]

This guy (in the middle with hands crossed), although would settle for the guy on the right might be a bit pricey,but Dodger is loaded!
Airfares,Rtn. Perth
Quarantine,
Corona Medical Cert, ( also his little butt might need medical attention afterwards)...can't make an omelette without breaking eggs!
Accommodation, Food (fresh tuna only ) and whatever else his little heart desires,
TIP , ( Japanese rates apply ) oh yeah, we're talking looonnggg time!

Thanks Dodger-I'll await express delivery.

Delivery...maybe, but I'd have to fully examine the boys prior to delivery so there may be a delay...using an anal thermometer of course.

You're right, the boy with his arms crossed is a real charmer, but I'm rather drawn to the boy on the left even without seeing his face.

As far as this post going off topic...who cares...when did that really matter?

[latintopxxx]

...oliver...its not your political beliefs that annoy me....its the fact that you would have us believe a Jew trying to pole vault into auschwitz is normal...in reality a gay Palestinian is safer living in Israel than amongst his family...
....and back on topic...speaking of reparations...those Arabs owe the Jews 2000 years back rent...

[dinagam]

....and back on topic...speaking of reparations...those Arabs owe the Jews 2000 years back rent...

Is that all?
By the same token, the (deleted) Sémites owe the Persians more than, 3000 years of the same.

[a447]

I'm rather drawn to the boy on the left even without seeing his face.

Mmm...his legs look unusually long. Rather weird.

Shame about those aprons.

[dinagam]

Shame about those aprons.

Those aren't aprons but are loincloths.
The Japanese surely are trendy and fashionable in the traditional way.

[goji]

Concentration of wealth sometimes achieves good results.
Bill Gates might be one of the richest people, but he's been using a large proportion of his wealth to fund good causes. This includes vaccine research & funding the Jenner Institute in Oxford, long before governments woke up to the Covid risk and started pouring money in to vaccine research. If the Oxford vaccine works, remember who part funded their activities.

Warren Buffet is also in the process of giving most of his money away, via the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. He's smart enough to know who will use the money effectively.

Whilst not all of the billionaires are so generous, an intelligent and successful person like Bill Gates allocating $100 billion of his own capital is likely to get better results than some government run by half wit politicians who have never achieved anything before becoming politicians. Bill Gates is bright enough to put his money where it's more likely to have a positive effect, whereas governments tend to be utterly useless at capital allocation.

[Oliver2]

I recommend "The Spirit Level" by Pickett and Wilkinson. It argues that the happiness of society does not merely reflect its material wealth but reflects the relationships between its citizens and their sense of belonging to a supportive and social community. This is demonstrated most clearly by the despair, anguish, reliance on opiates, alcoholism and the levels of suicides and mental illness that disfigure those wealthier societies which encourage an "every man for himself" mentality.

[arsenal]

A defaulting refusing to pay the monies owed Oliver wrote.

"I am inclined to begin posting a weekly comment on the crimes of Western Imperialism."

I trust you will leave the grand old British Empire out of that. I suspect that if you asked the average African or Asian in one of our former colonies.*
"Are you happy with the basket case lunatic megalomaniac gangster president-for-life economically illiterate dictator tribal allied martinet torturer running your country or would you rather have the British back?
I think HM gvt would come out on top.

*This question currently also applies to the USA.

[Zebedee]

A defaulting refusing to pay the monies owed Oliver wrote.

"I am inclined to begin posting a weekly comment on the crimes of Western Imperialism."

I trust you will leave the grand old British Empire out of that. I suspect that if you asked the average African or Asian in one of our former colonies.*
"Are you happy with the basket case lunatic megalomaniac gangster president-for-life economically illiterate dictator tribal allied martinet torturer running your country or would you rather have the British back?
I think HM gvt would come out on top.

*This question currently also applies to the USA.

Dear God! I can't believe you wrote that arsenal. So the British Empire were better than tin pot dictators....what a recommendation.
I'm sure the Bengalis Indians who starved to death ( over 2 million of them ) might not agree ...if they were alive! And of course the much vaunted indian railway system of which the British still proudly proclaim as a great humanitarian accomplishment for the Indian people. LOL, in reality its primary purpose of course was to transport the natural resources out of the country to British factories. Or the opium drug peddling by the british government to the Chinese people, and that OPIUM war only ended by coercion, forcing the Chinese to lease HONG KONG to the British. Or the Irish who were supposedly in a "union of equals" but unfortunately for them they didn't want to be British and were the "wrong " religion RC. When at the height of the British Empire they too were starved to death ( over one million ) while food was exported under armed guard out of their country. The conflicts in Israel / Palestine, Pakistan/ India , Northern Ireland are the legacies of British Colonialism still playing out today to varying degrees.
But yes the British were better than the Belgians , who would chop off limbs of the people in the Congo if considered not working hard enough. Colonialism was never about improving the lives of those colonised, it was about robbing those countries resources and subjugating the people. To say the British were better than other oppressors is not something to be proud of.

[latintopxxx]

...but isnt this what all empires do to expand...conquer their neighbours?? It certainly isnt an English trait only...they were simply the latest hugely successful one...so stop venting...Russia, China, Shaka Zulu, Aztecs, Nazis, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Thai, Arabs, Persians, Rome.. ...did I mention China??...they r at it again even as we speak...

[arsenal]

It was largely tongue-in-cheek Zebedee but Latin is right, the British Empire compares very favourably to all of the others.

[Zebedee]

It was largely tongue-in-cheek Zebedee but Latin is right, the British Empire compares very favourably to all of the others.

Whooosh! oh dear that went right over my head arsenal.

[Zebedee]

...but isnt this what all empires do to expand...conquer their neighbours?? It certainly isnt an English trait only...they were simply the latest hugely successful one...so stop venting...Russia, China, Shaka Zulu, Aztecs, Nazis, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Thai, Arabs, Persians, Rome.. ...did I mention China??...they r at it again even as we speak...

Yes Latin, we know what they done, my reply was to, what I mistakenly thought was a defence of Colonialism.

[Dodger]

...Are you happy with the basket case lunatic megalomaniac gangster president-for-life economically illiterate dictator tribal allied martinet torturer running your country...?

*This question currently also applies to the USA.

I though you talking about the USA.

[Dodger]

Mmm...his legs look unusually long. Rather weird.

Shame about those aprons.

It's his long legs that caught my eye. Now if the wind would have been blowing enough to move that loincloth a bit we could see if the rest of him is long too. How'd you like to see a video of him and the boy in the middle wrestling?

[a447]

How'd you like to see a video of him and the boy in the middle wrestling?

I'm desperately searching as we speak!

[sglad]

....and back on topic...speaking of reparations...those Arabs owe the Jews 2000 years back rent...

Perhaps of greater currency and relevance to this forum is what the Israelis are currently doing to the Thais.

Labour abuse fears rise for Thai migrant workers in Israel

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1955135/labour-abuse-fears-rise-for-thai-migrant-workers-in-israel

Thai labourers in Israel tell of harrowing conditions

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-46311922/thai-labourers-in-israel-tell-of-harrowing-conditions

[Oliver2]

Thais were imported as cheap workers to replace the expelled indigenous people. Dark-skinned people aren't liked....even the Falasha (Ethiopians) who are Jews are victimised.

[goji]

Thais were imported as cheap workers to replace the expelled indigenous people. Dark-skinned people aren't liked....even the Falasha (Ethiopians) who are Jews are victimised.
For the sake of balance, we also read reports of dreadful treatment of immigrant workers in some of the other middle eastern countries.

[arsenal]

All really Goji. The middle east is in general still in the middle ages. If they didn't have oil we'd have nothing to do with them. Hard to know who they hate more, us the infidels or each other.

[Oliver2]

And yet i spent all that time there and found nothing but kindness. I wandered on my own through poverty-stricken refugee camps, or towns and villages where the Zionists only go in armoured trucks, guns blazing, and was given coffee and pastries. The children have been taught in schoolt to welcome visitors (unarmed ones) and speak halting English to us. " You are very welcome to Hebron," said one ten year-old to me while soldiers were treating us all- Christians and Muslims and Jewish dissidents, of whom I knew many- with disdain thirty metres away.
My experience is typical.

[Marc K]

Oliver I have had the same result. Nothing but kindness from the Palestinians, the Jordanians, the Lebanese. I would say that gulf countries are another kettle of fish. And one small secret, the partying-est country I have ever been to is Iran. A very fun loving people -- highly intelligent, highly artistic, highly cultured, highly playful. The second best party-ers and by the far the best gourmands are the Lebanese! Yumm!

Oh there is one area which I disagree with you. Most Palestinians speak EXCELLENT English! As well as Hebrew (so they can deal with their occupiers who want to be spoken to only in Hebrew). As well as Arabic of course, and perhaps more.

[Dodger]

And yet i spent all that time there and found nothing but kindness. I wandered on my own through poverty-stricken refugee camps, or towns and villages where the Zionists only go in armoured trucks, guns blazing, and was given coffee and pastries.

I'm sure the people of Palestine are wonderful, but I rather doubt that the opportunity to wander through poverty-stricken refugee camps with Zionist guns blazing would do much to attract tourism. The history of violent conflicts with Israel puts everyone at risk. That, coupled with the fact that gays, if exposed, can end up being tortured, imprisoned, or put to death in Palestine wouldn't put this marvelous place, as you describe, on too many peoples Top Ten List of places to visit.

I'm assuming you have a personal connection with Palestine and don't in-any-way intend to discredit your opinion or thoughts regarding this place, but this topic was intended to be about Covid-19's impact on domestic and international travel (tourism) in a broader sense...not about religion...and I think that's where you're going with this.

If you have any thoughts to share about tourism in Palestine that would be great.

[Oliver2]

I have visited every major town in Palestine and most of the camps, from Jenin in the north (the prettiest) to Jericho in the south, a desert city, surrounded by sandy mountains and close to the Dear Sea.

As far towns are concerned, the most historically and architecturally interesting are Nablus and Hebron, the latter requiring a guide due to an Israeli colony slap--bang in in the centre, full of AK47 and Uzi- toting Zionist immigrants....mainly from the US and France. And trigger-happy soldiers, of course.

Both Hebron and Nablus are, in my view, far more interesting than Jerusalem (al Quds), though the Christian Quarter of Jerusalem has some beautiful churches. The Old City is safe and the sheer disbelief on the faces of Evangelical US tourists when they find -out that Jerusalem is Palestinian is fun to observe. It's not what they are taught in their mega-churches! I find it too commercialised. This is also true of Bethlehem and the huge annexation wall built in residents' backyards is more oppressive than anywhere else . It is a Christian town but apartheid tore the heart out of its commercial centre in the last thirty years . I know two of its three refugee camps. Both are interesting for their political history.

The south, as I said, is desert land with a desert climate and has its own grandeur but I like the Jenin area best scenically; a Mediterranean climate with lush, green hills.

Shared taxis, a bus service and private taxis are available. Be prepared for long waits at the many check-points, huge, Orwellian structures with a sequence of metal cages and electronic turn-styles.. Some danger there; people are sometimes shot. i was nearly killed when I took the wrong exit and owe my life to a a Palestinian truck-driver who understood the Hebrew warning shouted at me through a loudspeaker. An American brother and sister were shot dead a couple of years ago there....Obama's government let it pass. The kids were fifteen and sixteen.

As Marc K has pointed- out. the abiding joy of travel lies with the people, just as it does in Thailand. No one cares about sexuality, religion or nationality if your behaviour is seemly. Even we British, whose country abandoned those people whom we had been charged with protecting in 1948 are welcomed! It is a largely secular society with many empowered (and highly-educated) women.... forget photos of covered faces, you won't see them except in a couple of areas of Gaza. Or so I'm told. The children are astonishingly politically aware and eloquent, particularly the girls.

One final word. I know many people who have travelled to Palestine, not one of them has returned to the UK unchanged. Particularly British Jews. I treasure every memory, even if some of them are deeply painful..

[Brad the Impala]

Great post Oliver.

Unfortunately some people are too blinkered to pay heed to someone who has been there and done that and would rather stick with their own misconceived perceptions formed from a great distance.

Good posts from Marc too. Intrigued particularly to hear more on Iran. I did read once that that country is the world leader in sex change operations!

[latintopxxx]

...alice in wonderland stuff...

[dinagam]

Are we hearing the Mad Hatter now...?

[Dodger]

One final word. I know many people who have travelled to Palestine, not one of them has returned to the UK unchanged. Particularly British Jews. I treasure every memory, even if some of them are deeply painful..

Thank you Oliver...a great read...and your travels around the region sound fascinating. I really appreciate your sense of adventure, as well as your compassion and concern for less fortunate people in general. All admirable traits and my hats off to you.

You've tweeked my interest and expanded my knowledge of the region a bit which I also appreciate.

[latintopxxx]

u all go visit arablandia...I'm gonna be sunning my buns checking out the guys on hilton beach...that is if i visit Israel...

[Dodger]

Evan Home-Trotting may be off the list for Americans the way Covid-19 is escalating across the U.S.

Trump is pushing health and education leaders to reopen schools, which, in his twisted opinion, will prevent children from suffering depression and other mental health issues caused by staying out of school, as well as allow the parents to go back to work. Well, I don't know how much children have changed since back when I was in school, but if our schools stayed closed a bit longer extending summer break we would be jumping for joy - not falling into a pit of depression that these Trump puppets would have you believe.

Reopening Disneyland in Florida sure got a lot of people out of their depressions....stimulated domestic tourism...put a lot of people back to work...helped the local economy, etc....but closed a day later after 31,000 people contacted Covid-19 in Florida setting a new record for the highest number of reported Covid-19 cases in a single day...go figure!

It's hard to imagine domestic tourism, let alone international tourism, igniting in any country until they have a handle on the spread of this virus, even after a vaccine is released and available to the public. Just looking at the numbers in the U.S., an American would be safer taking a vacation in the Gaza Strip than he would be by staying home.

Where this thing is going is anyone's guess - but it sure ain't pretty.

[arsenal]

Our Boris has a tendency to like extremes at either end of the scale and cares little for anything in the middle.

So he was saying that the UK would 'send it packing within 12 weeks' while also suggesting 250000 would kick the bucket prematurely.

Now he's saying that the UK should be through the worst of it by the middle of next year. If he's even half right it's going to be quite a while before UK residents are welcomed into South East Asia.

[Zebedee]

You know, once you understand the technical aspects of the sport, ice skating ( Japanese in particular ) is a wonderful spectator sport.

[latintopxxx]

...i prefer acrobatics a la stock bar

[Zebedee]

Yes Latin, all fun and games.

[Dodger]

You know, once you understand the technical aspects of the sport, ice skating ( Japanese in particular ) is a wonderful spectator sport.

As an avid spectator of Japanese boys, I'd like to see the technical aspects of this boy bending over touching his ankles while wearing a pair of see-through ballet leotards.

I wonder what's going to happen to the 2020 Olympics in Japan???

[goji]

As an avid spectator of Japanese boys, I'd like to see the technical aspects of this boy bending over touching his ankles while wearing a pair of see-through ballet leotards.

I wonder what's going to happen to the 2020 Olympics in Japan???

I think the current plan is to hold the Olympics in 2021 ? Whether or not this happens remains to be seen.
The attitude seems to have changed from saying it's "impossible to delay the 2020 Olympics", when a delay was already inevitable, to now having some doubts over 2021.

Even in 2021, it will still be called the 2020 Olympics. I guess there is too much merchandise to change this to 2021 or 2022.

[latintopxxx]

will the 2020 be collectors items worth a gazzillion dollars in 50 years time...

[gerefan2]

I think the current plan is to hold the Olympics in 2021 ? Whether or not this happens remains to be seen.
The attitude seems to have changed from saying it's "impossible to delay the 2020 Olympics", when a delay was already inevitable, to now having some doubts over 2021.

Even in 2021, it will still be called the 2020 Olympics. I guess there is too much merchandise to change this to 2021 or 2022.

It’s just a bloody game , like football, who gives a fuck?

[arsenal]

Football is worth billions to the UK economy so quite a few people.

https://globalstore.thetimes.co.uk/

[Dodger]

It’s just a bloody game , like football, who gives a fuck?

Well, I guess the young athletes who spent their entire lives preparing for this event may be a bit disappointed.

After cancelling the 2020 World Ice Skating Championships I was hoping to see "heart throb" Yazuru Hanyu in the 2020 Olympics.

Here's a clip of Yazuru's performance at the 2018 Olympics: Nothing like football at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23EfsN7vEOA

[latintopxxx]

...too white...too skinny...might be a lesbian...

[siscu58]

Here's a clip of Yazuru's performance at the 2018 Olympics: Nothing like football at all.



Not only he is the best ice-skater in the world but he is stunningly sexy.
Do you know Shoma Uno? My favourite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dL--OnGnDs

[bucky13]

Neither one of those compare to the beauty and athleticism of Mr. Chen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bl1RXYHwnQ

[Dodger]

...too white...too skinny...might be a lesbian...

Huh???

OK...here's an Olympic hopeful I think may be closer to your taste:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNUxgWM2hCo

[Zebedee]

Well, I guess the young athletes who spent their entire lives preparing for this event may be a bit disappointed.

After cancelling the 2020 World Ice Skating Championships I was hoping to see "heart throb" Yazuru Hanyu in the 2020 Olympics.


Here's a clip of Yazuru's performance at the 2018 Olympics: Nothing like football at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23EfsN7vEOA

Thanks for that clip.
It's a pity they don't wear a white pants and black top. The black pants hides too much detail. .....sigh!

[latintopxxx]

...nah..rather watch ozzie rules ....much nicer...