Do Black Lives Matter when selling skin care in Thailand

[bkkguy]

an international article in the Bangkok Post print edition today about "derogatory names" for ice creams (in this case Eskimo Pie) was part of an ongoing series of reports I have seen on BLM considerations prompting re-naming products to avoiding offending minorities or using offensive racial stereotypes, for example Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben in the US, or even Colonial Brewery in Australia

in the article was reference to Johnson & Johnson dropping some Clean & Clear skin whitening creams marketed specifically in Asia because "some product names or claims on our dark spot reducer products represent fairness or white as better than your own unique skin tone" - I didn't see this actual article on the Post web site but this J&J move has been reported elsewhere (Johnson & Johnson drops skin whitening creams, AOL (http://"https://www.aol.com/article/lifestyle/2020/06/19/johnson-and-johnson-drops-skin-whitening-creams/24529374/?guccounter=1) )

given the huge range of skin whitening products on the market here in Thailand, including skin creams, underarm deodorants and vaginal washes - the one gap seems to be dick whiteners - do "black/Isan farmer" lives not matter here or does political correctness just have different nuances here?

[Brad the Impala]

given the huge range of skin whitening products on the market here in Thailand, including skin creams, underarm deodorants and vaginal washes.....

This caught my attention. Although my knowledge of female anatomy is hardly forensic, my understanding is that the vagina is an internal organ in which case whitening would be a rather pointless exercise. I thought that the external parts had other names. Are there really whitening vaginal washes?! Doesn't sound very advisable to me!

The Issan men would look very odd with a whiter cock! Brown is better has been a guiding principle for many years.

On one of my first visits to Pattaya, before they had gay bars and while the water was still pure, I stumbled across a gay boy scrubbing himself with sand on a deserted section of the beach. It was a good icebreaker and he explained that he had been trying to get whiter. I realised that he needed fulsome reassurance that his existing skin colour was very attractive. The course of reassurance lasted several days.

[Nirish guy]

How very decent of you to spend all that time reassuring that boy so fulsomely over a period of days, I just hope that he showed his gratitude in an equally generous and energetic manner if called upon to do so!

[latintopxxx]

Guess i need to be reeducated...I dont see how eskimo pie is racist, next thing they will complain that they are being ignored and that nothing is named after them. As for the darker compexioned ones wanting to lighten up this is a wprldwide trend visible in South America, Africa and Asia...on the flipside the europeans spend time and money trying to tan...am convined the world is completely bonkers and we are only happy trying to fond offense.

[arsenal]

It seems to me that the people complaining that non white cultures are not recognised enough are the same people complaining about 'cultural appropriation' when something is.

[Up2U]

Guess i need to be reeducated...I dont see how eskimo pie is racist, next thing they will complain that they are being ignored and that nothing is named after them. As for the darker compexioned ones wanting to lighten up this is a wprldwide trend visible in South America, Africa and Asia...on the flipside the europeans spend time and money trying to tan...am convined the world is completely bonkers and we are only happy trying to fond offense.

I asked myself the same question and this is what I found on the web....

"While the word "Eskimo" comes from a Central Algonquian language still spoken by indigenous people around the Great Lakes today, its use by racists and colonizers as a descriptor for indigenous people has turned the word into a derogatory term. While some people call themselves Eskimos, it's a largely out-of-date term for non-Eskimos to use, with "Inuit" being the preferred term by many, one with less of a tie to the violent colonial past."

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2020/06/9879127/eskimo-pie-changing-name-derogatory-meaning

[Oliver2]

I suppose that my perception is unusual, having spent fifty years of my life living with, and in some cases in, cultures, that are oppressed, exploited and abused by racists.
The crucial literary illustration was provided centuries ago by Daniel Defoe in Robinson Crusoe. When the hero meets up with the indigenous man he decides that he'll call him Man Friday. At no stage does it occur to him that Man Friday may already have a name.
Accordingly, today's neo-colonialists and white supremacists assume that it is their right to call others what they choose, however insulting, while complaining vociferously if they are called red-necks or white trash.

[goji]

Skin whitening creams are, in principle, no different to spray on fake sun tan. It's just that some like their own skin to be darker and others prefer it lighter. I see no problem.

It's not like a certain washing powder ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43DcKN_2umI

[latintopxxx]

..huh...and here i thought all the "indians" in the USA would have fallen to their knees and rejoiced upon being discovered and finally knowing who they were..,

[a447]

I think the whole idea of lightening that gorgeous brown skin is ludicrous.

But at the end of the day, it's their choice; it's not as though Johnson & Johnson began the craze by first promoting the products, afaik. So it's the locals who have created a market for such products and J&J have just catered to it.

They use skin whitening products and some of us use fake tan or (stupidly) go to solariums.

Same, same.

And please, no dick-whitening!

[Manforallseasons]

As someone who lives here and often see Thai TV commercials and TV shows everyone is Chinese white with the exception of car mechanics, gardeners and laborers, Thai society is fraught with its own systemic color racism.

[Oliver2]

"If you are white, you're all right, if you are brown, stick around , if you're black get back!" Ah, memories of the US Civil rights movement of the 60s and 70s....very appropriate for today. I was always a Bobby Seale man, even as a youngster.
If we're in Watson's, P knows that there is one item he cannot put in the shopping basket...skin whitening cream. My aversion is both political and aesthetic. He is incredulous when I explain that many- most?-falangs prefer dark skin and, while the lighter-skinned guys of Chiang Rai and Chiang Mai can look beautiful, given the choice.....

On the whole, I find Thais lacking in understanding of global racial politics; perhaps it's true of all Asia. Or maybe that's unfair. I await correction from those who know the continent better than me.

[christianpfc]

When it comes to choosing sexual partners, there is a simple rule: the browner the better. But brown is not brown: there are some tones I find more attractive and others less attractive.

The only reason why I take all my business to SEAsia and not to equatorial Africa is that there is no organized, safe and cheap gay scene in equatorial Africa.

In general I'm vary (I mean it reduces my sexual attraction) of people who try to change their appearance, be it skin whitening, make-up, tattoos, piercings, cosmetic contact lenses, nail varnish, plucked or painted eyebrows. The only exception is hairdo.

[latintopxxx]

must agree that Thailand's main advantage is that its pretty safe...if you prefer a more varied and cheap diet then South Africa is another option, not as safe but still safe enough if one is sensible...range varies from Afrikaner blondes to Nigerians...and with the collapse of their currency all very affordable...now all we gotta wait for is for covid to go away...

[Khor tose]

As someone who lives here and often see Thai TV commercials and TV shows everyone is Chinese white with the exception of car mechanics, gardeners and laborers, Thai society is fraught with its own systemic color racism.

Sadly, This is also my observation of the Thai culture.

[dab69]

Actually shy away when I see a friend all pallid and bleached out.

If J&J want to opt out of selling skin whitener I am sure the void will be filled by other formulators.
On the way they could pick up some Hitler chicken.

[a447]

It's not just the Thais who worry about dark skin.

I've got some female friends in Singapore who have never been to the beach or a swimming pool. And convenience stores in Japan are full of skin - whitening products.

[dinagam]

This young man has certainly benefited from some skin-whitening treatment for the face, which paradoxically makes the rest of his body so alluring...

[goji]

It's not just the Thais who worry about dark skin.

I've got some female friends in Singapore who have never been to the beach or a swimming pool. And convenience stores in Japan are full of skin - whitening products.

White skin is also favoured in China.

I have seen claims that in the distant past, white untanned skin was favoured in Europe, as only poor people had to work out in the fields all day. Then when the industrial revolution came along, the poor people were in the factories and only the rich went on holidays, so a sun tan became desirable.

[arsenal]

"White skin is also favoured in China."

Yes and thank fuck for that. The Pictures below are a selection of the boys who came to dance with me last night before we headed off to the hot bath at 4.00am. And all because I have white skin.

[bucky13]

Not to mention the trendy fad of anal bleaching !

[Nirish guy]

I thought you said you weren't going to mention THAT ffs !!

Pattaya has enough of us white arseholes in it, it certainly doesn't need anymore ! :)

[latintopxxx]

...arsenal...what club was this??....nerd night?....I know China has better talent than this...

[latintopxxx]

...anyway...back on topic...in Asia the whiter the better, dark skins denotes the lower peasant class that are forced to spend time toiling outdoors in the blazing sun while the ruling classes lounge indoors using their offspring for their pleasure...personally knew a lady in China that was absolutely devastated when her only daughter married an African she met working in Guangzhou....she would have preferred going to her funeral mover her wedding...her words..not mine...I reminded her that Tiger Woods had similar bllodlines but she couldnt get over the fact that her grand kids would be sooo dark...swear she lost half her body weight in one afternoon so anguished was she.

[gerefan2]

.personally knew a lady in China that was absolutely devastated when her only daughter married an African she met working in Guangzhou.....

The way the breeders are carrying on it won’t be long before the whole world is half-caste.

[latintopxxx]

....it all depends on your definition of that term...once had a dutch colleague who mentioned he had a mixed marriage...I was expecting to meet some swarthy south american..or african..u get the picture..he shows up with a tall severe looking blond finnish woman...that was his definition of mixed...non dutch..LOL...

[latintopxxx]

...anyway...look at Keanu Reeves...gorgeous...

[Marc K]

....it all depends on your definition of that term...once had a dutch colleague who mentioned he had a mixed marriage...I was expecting to meet some swarthy south american..or african..u get the picture..he shows up with a tall severe looking blond finnish woman...that was his definition of mixed...non dutch..LOL...

Haha I have a better one than that! My mother always talked about my older brother's "mixed marriage" -- he was/is Catholic and she was/is Lutheran! Yeow. You can imagine her confusion when I showed up on the scene with an Asian...man!

[latintopxxx]

....she was probably relieved as she was now off the hook...mother in law now had beigger issues to deal with...LORD works in mysterious ways..lol

[Nirish guy]

Haha I have a better one than that! My mother always talked about my older brother's "mixed marriage" -- he was/is Catholic and she was/is Lutheran! Yeow. You can imagine her confusion when I showed up on the scene with an Asian...man!

My mother had a similar problem when I was telling her about my Asian BF for the first time - so a) it was bad enough for her that he WAS an "Asian" i.e a gold digging, passport seeking crook of course ( in her head) - then b) her next question which she liked the answer to even less - "but is he a Catholic or a Protestant Asian?" - and finally then the answer that totally finished her off was her hearing that he was actually a devout Atheist as it seems she WOULD have preferred or put up with a good God fearing devout Catholic over a hateful God denying Atheist Asian any day and indeed I ended up getting it in the neck for probably corrupting the poor man and taking off the path of righteousness ! ( she may have a point there though :-)

Thankfully she eventually got over her various shocks ( not to mention her racism and bigotry) and they're both the best of friends now ( much to my annoyance as she takes his side in every situation WAY more than mine these days ! .......well, when I say she got over things I do of course means "for now" as she's probably just doing that British stiff upper lip thing of simply tolerating him / the situation until such times as he and I perhaps break up someday, whereon i'm sure I'll be told that "she never really liked or trusted that dodgy looking Asian Catholic guy anyway and I'm better off without him!" :-) Mothers, eh, ya gotta love em :)

* edit - ps she isn't half as bad as I've just made her sound above - REALLY ! lol

[arsenal]

Back in the day some Indians moved next door to us in North London.

My mother.
"Ooohhh, they're cooking that foreign muck again. I can smell it, I feel sick."

Fast forward a few decades.
My mother.
Sniff sniff. "Ooohhh, curry. I can smell it. Makes me feel hungry."

[a447]

much to my annoyance as she takes his side in every situation WAY more than mine these days !

I think that says it all.

It demonstrates that we are all capable of change, despite the beliefs with which we were brought up.

She sounds lovely, Nirish!

[francois]

The way the breeders are carrying on it won’t be long before the whole world is half-caste.

Half-caste is an offensive term; somewhat like half-breed.

[Oliver2]

Agreed....it was odd that JK Rowling got away with it in the title of one of those books. She has subsequently shown herself to be insensitive to other peoples' feeling so perhaps my surprise was misplaced.

[bkkguy]

[JK Rowling] has subsequently shown herself to be insensitive to other peoples' feelings

is it "insensitive" because you disagree with it, or is some universal truth being challenged here?

[bkkguy]

given the increasing number of brands that have now announced that will re-label their "whitening" products, what should the government and the press do - try to "whitewash" the "black market" and "black economy" in Thailand, or find a more politically correct term?

[arsenal]

JK Rowling merely pointed out that transvestite women are not actually women. Which they are not. They are in fact, creepy, odd and nothing to do with us.

[billyhouston]

In the field of tooth care, those who can go back a few years will remember a toothpaste called Darkie (now changed to Darlie), The packaging featured 'blackface' as does its replacement. It was disappointing that political correctness was rearing its ugly head in Thailand.

[Khor tose]

JK Rowling merely pointed out that transvestite women are not actually women. Which they are not. They are in fact, creepy, odd and nothing to do with us.

I’ve lived nearly 76 years as a gay man. I remember when blacks could not pee with white people, drink their water, live in their neighborhoods, or expect to vote in their elections. As a gay man , I also remember being subject to arrest, losing jobs when employers find out, having to lie to friends and family about my orientation, and being made to feel second class in all things. I’ve seen first hand-- over and over again-- the same hateful treatment against Indians, Asians, religious minorities, and women.
I’m sorry Arsenal, unless you are joking, I find it incredibly stupid of you to say we have nothing in common with transvestites

[goji]

They are in fact, creepy, odd and nothing to do with us.

I agree, except I would say "they have nothing MORE to do with us than any other humans on the planet have".

Whilst they are entitled to be transvestite and not be discriminated against, I don't see why gays have to be lumped in with every other special interest group under an LBGT acronym.
There is no S in there for Straight and as a gay, I would say that always lumping gays in with transvestites, but not straight people is discriminatory.

For me, the G does not belong in LBGT any more than an S would.

[Brad the Impala]

In the field of tooth care, those who can go back a few years will remember a toothpaste called Darkie (now changed to Darlie), The packaging featured 'blackface' as does its replacement. It was disappointing that political correctness was rearing its ugly head in Thailand.

Those Darkies are so sensitive! As Khor Those reminds us, those of who can go back even more years can remember when they couldn't use the same facilities as white people! Next they'll be wanting equality with white people.

A bit of history from the Financial Times today.

https://on.ft.com/31r8I1t

[arsenal]

They are men who dress up as women. How does that relate to us? Who joined these disparate groups together?

To compare transvestites (pantomime dame's basically) with the "separate but equal" laws of America is naive and wholly inaccurate.

[latintopxxx]

..agree that they have little to do with being gay...but it does nit give u a reason to abuse them...just saying

[arsenal]

I'm not abusing them and there is no them apart from wigs and make up. They exist only in their own imaginations. Like a child dressed up as a pirate. Only he believes he's a pirate. If that's what they want to do then fine. But don't associate them with me. I'm Easy Rider and they're Dolly Parton meets the Incredible Hulk.

[Nirish guy]

Ok I mean you DO know that the point started about TRANSEXUALS - who of course have absolutely nothing to do with transvestites - as I’m quite sure you know already sadly. After gays being treated so poorly for years by Straights you think we could maybe have just a little more compassion for others sometimes perhaps :-(

[latintopxxx]

oh this has gotta be a dream...me in agreement with Nirish.....must admit that I hate being lumped in with transexuals and cross dressers...I got a penis and I like it...but hey..lets be tolerant of one another...

[arsenal]

My apologies and a big bunch of flowers to all the transvestites/ transsexuals. Bless their little sequined frocks.

[latintopxxx]

thanks arsenal..your sincere apology much appreciated by all the ladies...what a true gentlemen..

[arsenal]

Thank you Latin. I have a warm fuzzy glow inside. Now I'm going to organise a Tranny Lives Matter movement along with a gesture to go with it similar to taking the knee. I'm thinking along the lines of the hand is placed on the crotch and then whipped away sharply and the arm extended to represent the removal and discard of the offending article. I'm hoping this gesture will catch on and that we can all show support for our minority brethren by performing it whenever we meet a fellow oppressed sexually different minority member. While I'm doing that perhaps someone else could take care of the body dismorphics.

[Nirish guy]

I cant work out whether you're trying to enrage for fun or you GENUINELY need to go and educate yourself just a little more about Transexual people, whilst I guess I have to admit that we've all seen the badly dressed guy in a cheap wig and his mums dress in the corner of a gay bar somewhere and thought HOLY GOD would you look at the state of THAT ! THAT is of course absolutely nothing to do with the average transexual person who has probably been through hell ( as a lot of us have) in trying to work out who they are and then simply trying to live their lives every day after that in the ( usually vain) hope of getting even the most basic respect and tolerance from others as they go through their lives ( which really shouldn't be TO much to ask).

The guy in the bar who is most probably simply a guy who likes to wear frocks ( i.e the Transvestive that you refer to) is a world away from a Transexual person, who has been probably struggling for years knowing that their gender and their physical body simply dont match and the two simply cant and shouldn't ever be equated to be the same and used in the same sentence like that. If people bother to go and watch some programmes on Transgendered people and their lives and the struggles they have both medically, mentally and emotionally I think it will perhaps give you a greater understanding of their lives - which unless someone is choosing to be just intentionally cruel is nothing to do with that "guy in a bad wig" ( well unless the transgendered person happens to go to a shit wig shop I guess !)

By the way re the guy in the bar - fair play to him too, if he wants to wear his mums best frock ( or his own) then good luck to him I say of it makes him feel good for some reason. But Transexuality and the real struggle that many of those people face every single day just trying to get through life is nothing to do with "that guy" and having known and watch a Transexual person going through that very struggle for their entire life ( she's now 58) and do the whole married and having kids thing whilst the whole time repressing who they KNEW they really where - only to FULLY "go for it" in later life and become the lady they were ( and I mean lady in every sense not some guy in a bad wig!) and to watch them meet a man and find genuine happiness and peace for maybe the first time in their lives and who are we to try and take that away from anybody,

I have to admit that I too sometimes wonder at the logic of Trans stuff and Gay stuff being intertwined as to me one is clearly about gender and the other about sexuality so to me they are two totally different subjects, however I can see and accept that the struggle for BOTH groups is the same and for us to try and ask for and promote tolerance and acceptance for yourselves, whilst at the same time denying that to another group would be wrong too I guess so "whatever" I say, we're all on a journey and if we can help someone else along the way then we should.

[arsenal]

I wish anyone well in becoming the person they want to be. I reserve the right to take the piss out of anything I choose up to and including you and me.

But as you say, don't place them in the same category as gay men.

And there are bigger issues than your dear friend here. Hospitals, prisons and changing rooms to name a few. What about actual women who might feel incredibly uncomfortable in certain circumstances. All female offices ect are very very female orientated in their conversation. What constitutes a women? What about sport, which category does a fully transgendered 'woman' compete in? There are taxi services just for women, can the transgendered use or work for this company, 'she' says yes but the taxi company says no. So 'she' sues them. If she wins then all the actual women who used that service cos their last boyfriend was violent now don't want to.

I think your motives are good. Coming from an area that was for decades, one of the most divided and hate filled places on Earth would shape anyone one way or another. But in the real world we all inhabit none of us can have everything we want.

Except Elton John.

[goji]

I have to admit that I too sometimes wonder at the logic of Trans stuff and Gay stuff being intertwined as to me one is clearly about gender and the other about sexuality so to me they are two totally different subjects
Exactly. Two different topics.

[Nirish guy]

I wish anyone well in becoming the person they want to be. I reserve the right to take the piss out of anything I choose up to and including you and me.

Yeah I'm torn there as I too like to rip on just about anything that takes me fancy, but unfortunately that to help create a slightly better world for all sometimes and depending on the topic you simply cant - well or not without causing offence or insult I guess ( I dont mean on here I mean in life in general) Actually a good example of that not ten minutes ago a friend sent me a basically racist "joke" by text - and I replied something like "look I know you're not a bad guy or an out and out racist etc but really you gotta stop that" and got 'ohhh for fuck sake can we not say ANYTHING these days' - to which my answer had to be the same as above i.e you CAN but when it crosses that every changing line you'll have to be prepared to be called out on it in case it causes "offence". The other route is of course to say "I dont give a fuck if it causes offence to someone or not" but THAT is of course an entirely different position ( and one that to be honest I wouldnt mind taking most days - but I try not to :)



And there are bigger issues than your dear friend here what about etc ,........

You're right and I dont for a second pretend to know or have the answers to all the valid points you raised but there are plenty of Trans websites out there that will I'm sure be happy to educate us re those things - but if I was to have a totally wild guess I'm guessing that most of the problems are as a result of people simply NOT accepting trans people as such and everything goes back to the core of the issue, which is of course why Trans people are fighting ( as we do) for simple acceptance - but as I say it's not a subject I'm that "up" on or claim to know much about - I just know as I've already said that the guy in the bar with the dodgy wig is a world away from anything to do with normal everyday trans people trying to live their everyday lives.


constitutes a women?

And i think THAT is the million dollar question which I'm not sure there is one simple answer to and it's certainly a question that I'm not qualified to answer - nor I doubt is anyone on this board ! Nor it seems are women themselves even as of course it's so much more that 'do they have a vagina" or "can they have children" or all the other "easy" usual indicators as likewise we could of course ask the same question about men and "what makes a man" as I'm sure the average male Gym bunny would say that the average effeminate gay guy for sure isn't a MAN too - but of course he'd be wrong about that too - all a very interesting subject and one that I think is going to run and run - but I think in the years ahead may actually become less important as genders just like sexuality become more greyed and hard to pin down and put in a box perhaps.


Coming from an area that was for decades, one of the most divided and hate filled places on Earth

"WAS" - WAS !!! How very dare you, we STILL claim the crown for that one here, we just hide it better these days thats all ! :)

[Brad the Impala]

But as you say, don't place them in the same category as gay men.


Nobody is placing trans people in the same category as gay men, except as being a sexual minority. You seem to have missed out on the whole LGBT movement which started fifty years ago to fight to defend the rights of sexual minorities. It was founded on a belief in the strength of solidarity between those minorities. There is even a UN charter based on its principles.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/11/28/global-principles-protecting-lgbti-rights-updated

It's a bit late to be saying that you didn't sign up! Especially as there can't be many gay men in first world countries who haven't benefited from the social and legal benefits that have been won to date. Many third world countries are sadly still a work in progress.

Incidentally I expect that there are some trans people who aren't that thrilled to be lumped in with guys who travel round the world to pay to have sex with poor young straight men. Takes all sorts right?

[arsenal]

"Nobody is placing trans people in the same category as gay men, except as being a sexual minority."

Yes. The mainstream media as well as the gay media do exactly that in the same way they lump ethnic minorities black and Asian together.

I do not want to be associated with transsexuals. They always portray themselves as victims and that is not how I see myself. I see being gay as a right old stroke of luck. As you said, I get to travel around the world paying poor young straight men for sex and all my straight friends are jealous of my lifestyle.

[Nirish guy]

I do not want to be associated with transsexuals. They always portray themselves as victims[QUOTE]

Coming from a gay man who has no doubt been well used over a lifetime of people generalising about him your above is a very generalised view too of Transexuals. It's basically akin to how (stupid / bigoted ) straight people come out with their usual shit about how THEY don'want to associated with gay people as sure those gays "are all paedophiles and rapists '( true for some no doubt but not for the vast majority of us thankfully). I'm guessing the "victims" to which you're referring are the people you see on the news or in the news papers perhaps rather than the vast majority of ordinary every day trans people who are just trying to get on with their every lives like the rest of us.

[QUOTE=arsenal;267673] my straight friends are jealous of my lifestyle.

Actually I'm guessing that while that's what they're TELLING you in reality they're probably thinking - "what a sad case that guy is and what a typical gay, travelling half way round the world to fuck boys half his age or more and no one to really love or care for him, gays they're all the bloody same, thank god I'm not like THAT" - meanwhile smiling at you and telling you "wow, you're off on your trips again, you have some life !" And THAT by the way isn't directed at your personally but I'm guessing what the average straight person REALLY thinks about MOST of us but as we're "friends" just never says it - to our face at least anyway.

[arsenal]

If that's your experience NIrish then my sympathy and If that's your friend's genuine opinion of you then find better ones.

I'm from London. We're a bit more cosmopolitan than the rest of the UK.

And please stop judging me by your own experience. Mine has been virtually universally positive.

A bit off topic but at the club tonight I danced with about 8 different boys and declined offers from a couple of others. But the highlight was a stupid game involving me and a few of them throwing wet screwed up tissues into the bin from various distances. Every time they missed I smacked them on the arse.

Virtually universally positive experience. Understand?

[latintopxxx]

.....issue with straights in relationships is that vast majority of the females dont allow their men to stray...if they did all the men would be in Thailand enjoying the cheap and plentiful hookers...there are lots lots more female hookers than male ones...market is probably 99.9999999% orientated towards straights...about 3 years ago I dared a straight single colleague of mine to spend an hour at eros and I would accompany him to a straight place on walking street called iron club or something like that...his place was crazy...

[Nirish guy]

I think you’re mistaking the experiences that I ( and yourself but the sounds of it) have and enjoy compared to what the straights probably think of us - I’d put money on it that my previous comments aren’t a million miles away from what the average bunch of straights would say about the likes of ourselves going to Thailand etc when chatting over a drink when not in our company or earshot, the difference being that thankfully Mist of us don’t give a shit what any of them might think or say anyway of course as most of us live by a whole different set of standards anyway. So whilst I don’t doubt that you’re having the time of your life and good on you for doing so, my point was more Re what the average bunch of straight people think about “us” and are they REALLY that envious of us as they / we reach 50 or 60 or whatever and as we carry on slapping arses in some random bar on a Monday night etc, of that, I’m just not so sure - again thankfully though their opinions dont matter to most of us anyway of course as I’m sure few if any of us would exchange our lives for theirs either for all the tea in China !!

[bkkguy]

I'm from London. We're a bit more cosmopolitan than the rest of the UK.
...
at the club tonight I danced with about 8 different boys and declined offers from a couple of others. But the highlight was a stupid game involving me and a few of them throwing wet screwed up tissues into the bin from various distances. Every time they missed I smacked them on the arse.

I suppose you did say cosmopolitan and not sophisticated...

[arsenal]

If you know of any "sophisticated" games played by drunk people in nightclubs then please share them with us.

[bkkguy]

If you know of any "sophisticated" games played by drunk people in nightclubs then please share them with us.

not surprisingly I don't know any "sophisticated" games that are played by drunk people in nightclubs, but your post implied that your environment was more "cosmopolitan" then the rest of the UK so when I didn't find then game you described as either "sophisticated" or "cosmopolitan" I was at least willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that some people somewhere may be willing to class it at least as "cosmopolitan" - "juvenile' would still be my choice of descriptive

[arsenal]

Almost anything is juvenile in comparison to your age and disposition.