Why do foreigners move to Asia, but are unwilling to assimilate into the culture?

[cdnmatt]

I keep getting calls everyday from Leo now, complaining about how much of an asshole Barry is being. I guess they're all but broken up, and Barry is stuck in Laos. Borders are closed, there are no airplanes, and Barry doesn't have any money. I've never liked the guy anyway, so I have no sympathy for him.

Nonetheless, I guess he's just being a complete dick. Gets all pissed off because Leo's dad ate a slice of his bread, and he doesn't like the rental rate (200,000 Kip/month) he got for Leo's sister renting her motorbike to him, and all Laos people are just stupid, and blah, blah. This blows my mind.

Why move to Asia if you're unwilling to assimilate and learn the culture and language? If he did this differently, the community would repay him 100 fold. Now everyone is just going to think he's an asshole, so nobody is going to help watch out for him at all.

It's SE Asia, it's a communal effort and way of living. Everyone knows each other, everyone looks out for each other, and everyone helps take care of each other. If you open yourself up to it, it's awesome. I remember when I first went blind, I was adamant that I was staying in Khon Kaen despire my family's objections. 3.5 years later, and I'm still very happy I made that decision. It took me about 4 months to become confident with being blind, and without support from the community, there's no way that would have happened. If I was isolated in Canadian society upon going blind, the whole thing would have been 1000 times more difficult than it was.

If you're going to move yourself to SE Asia, be willing to assimilate. Open yourself up a bit, and I promise the community and culture will repay you 100 fold. Or you can be like Barry, be a dickhead, and run around telling everyone how stupid they are. There's always that option too.

[gerefan2]

If you're going to move yourself to SE Asia, be willing to assimilate. Open yourself up a bit, and I promise the community and culture will repay you 100 fold. Or you can be like Barry, be a dickhead,.

Excellent advice. Getting the proper visa for example, not overstaying, not getting deported. Yes assimilate and make yourself popular.

[arsenal]

Perhaps Matt assimilated so much and not being able to see himself in the mirror he forgot he wasn't Thai.

[latintopxxx]

they are only nice to you because you got moola...havent you heard of that old confucious saying....No Money...No Honey...I mean its in the bible...and Talmund

[Nirish guy]

Or you can be like Barry, be a dickhead, and run around telling everyone how stupid they are. There's always that option too.

That would be Barry, who online yourself it seems DID manage to keep on the right side of the immigration police and is still, after all this time, still living with and banging your ex BF ! Hmmmm, he thinks perhaps Barry isn't quite as dumb as you believe perhaps......or maybe it would suggest just the Leo is in fact terrible when it comes to finding decent farang Boyfriends who can take proper care of him. who dont make promises to him and then by their own stupidity let him down and leave him hanging - yep, definitely one of the two perhaps.

[Smiles]

Excellent advice. Getting the proper visa for example, not overstaying, not getting deported. Yes assimilate and make yourself popular..... an add to that mooching off you mother in Canada; sooner or later called every Thai or Lao or so called boy friend a fucking idiot or a dumb fuck (assimilation my ass); lived in Thailand for years illegally and always holds a status of being continually just a few steps in front of the Thai or Lao immigration Police; and add to that, given this message board a stinking pile of bullshit which has grown to about the same height as Doi Inthanon.

9839

Thai assimilationists looking at the famous mountain of shit.

[latintopxxx]

...why should I assimilate...why cant one co-exist

[Nirish guy]

Resistance is futile ...... oops sorry, wrong board ;-)

For all you Trekkie fans out there that get it ;-)

[Marc K]

So right, Matt, I've been trying to understand this same question myself for many years. I know its a struggle to learn even passable paasaa Thai, difficult to understand Buddhism and its many facets of merit making -- but I came to the conclusion many years back that without at least a valiant attempt to speak/understand one will always be a stranger and alien and, yes, falang, in this country.

What I find even more amazing is that the very people who speak "sawasdee krub Thai" are often those who are the most anti-immigrant in their own country -- the "leavers" in the UK and the alt-right in the US -- who want to keep their own home cultures pure.

Do we truly expect that the Thais would welcome us with open arms and speak our language when in our own countries we demand that people speak English and follow "Christian" ways? How hypocritical can one be? Self-centered. Self-righteous.



...why should I assimilate...why cant one co-exist

Why? This is Thai-LAND, the land of/for the Thais. If they are gracious enough to invite/tolerate our presence, we owe their culture some respect and thanks for allowing us to be underfoot.



Will the colonialistic attitude never end?

Trend lightly, my friends.

[latintopxxx]

...just because I live there (theoretically that is as I NEVER would)...doent mean I have to become one...so silly...sure I can learn a few phrases to entertain the locals...understand local religious holidays...but I dont have to convert to any religion...whats next...blackface?!

[mr giggles]

Where are you living now Matt?

[bkkguy]

Do we truly expect that the Thais would welcome us with open arms and speak our language when in our own countries we demand that people speak English and follow "Christian" ways? How hypocritical can one be? Self-centered. Self-righteous.

in any country in the world that you may choose to travel to and especially live in for any period of time, the better your knowledge and usage of the local language the easier most of your interactions will be. However I would be wary of visiting, and certainly choosing to live in, a country that "demanded" I only use their language and it is only logical that if countries want foreign tourists or expats then assistance in other languages must be available

I was born and spent the first half of my life in Australia, and the is no "force" to speak English for tourists and even long term residents only need to show minimal language skills and are offered opportunities to develop their language skills, and translation services are available for many foreign languages for access to government and other services etc

I have spent the second half of my life in Thailand, and I have seen no "force" to speak Thai for tourists and long term residents do not need to show even minimal language skills but for non-English speakers and a few other languages there are very few language resources available

similarly in any country in the world that you may choose to travel to and especially live in for any period of time, the legal system will be predominantly based on the local religious system. However I would be wary of visiting, and certainly choosing to live in, a country that did not allow freedom of religion or significantly restricted my personal freedoms

again in Australia the legal system is predominantly based on Judeo/Christian principles and I would no more expect Sharia or Buddhist principles to be incorporated into that system then I expect Judeo/Christian or other systems to be incorporated into the Thai system but again it comes down to how far local legal systems legally and practically impinge on issues I consider important - in many ways I am happier in Thailand's legal system than I am in a few of its neighbors


Why? This is Thai-LAND, the land of/for the Thais. If they are gracious enough to invite/tolerate our presence, we owe their culture some respect and thanks for allowing us to be underfoot.

there is a significant difference between "invite" and "tolerate" and "respect" should go both ways and it is increasingly difficult for many falung here to be showing "thanks" for allowing us aliens to "be underfoot"

[cdnmatt]

Where are you living now Matt?


Still stuck in Canada. After two years of hard work, finally start bringing in good money again, and have even been sponsored by Digital Ocean of all companies, so I'm doing something right. Was getting ready to pack my bags, and finally meet Gohn, then global pandemic. Fuck!

So now I'm stuck here in Canada waiting for KoVid-19 to piss off. Gohn things it'll be over in 2 months, I told him to settle in for 16 months. Go back to your village, make a farm, and settle in, because we're in for a long ride. I'm making good money again, so don't worry, I'll help take care of you.

Airlines I think will open up this summer again, then just have to see what type of border restrictions are still in place by then. My guess is once this is all said and done, in order to cross borders, you'll be required to provide certification that you've been tested and have the KoVid-19 anti-bodies in your system.

I do know they're not currently even renting out apartments to foreigners in Vientiane right now due to KoVid-19, so now Barry is really fucked.

[cdnmatt]

So right, Matt, I've been trying to understand this same question myself for many years.


Exactly. Here's a few of many examples of my experience living in Thailand.


When going to the market, I would always ask my neighbors if they need anything, and vice versa. When they went, they always asked me.
My next door neighbor (she owned a small shop) would sometimes just show up in my home office with a plate of food, so I returned the favor, and if I was cooking something delicious I'd make her a place.
I remember when Kim and myself first moved into that one house in Khon Kaen, we didn't have any money, and one day Kim's mom shows up with a computer desk and chair for me. Probably only about 4000 baht, but that was really expensive for her.
I remember Kim's mom coming to live with us, and I helped buy her a "gwateiaw" stall, and helped her setup a little restaurant on the corner of our street. It was cool, and seated about 30 people. When she had a good day, she'd show up in my home office with a bottle of whiskey for me.
I remember when we ran out of money, my next door neighbor had no problem putting us on a tab, and helping take care of us.
I remember paying vet, dentist, and electric bills for my next door neighbor. Her dog was about to die (and so was mine, but mind was younger and healthier), and thanks to the vet's home visits and me picking up the tab, her dog stayed alive.
I remember at the other house, one time I went to my local mom & pop shop to do my thing, and was presented with a new walking / white cane. You can't buy those things at Tescos, so they went pretty far out of their way to get one for me.
I remember one time when I was still new to being blind and checking out my boundaries, I got lost. Some stranger picked me up on his motorbike, but due to the language barrier we just couldn't figure it out. He dropped me back off at the 7/11, because I told him I knew how to get home from there. As I'm walking home, sure enough he shows up again, just to make sure I'm alright and takes me the rest of the way home on his motorbike.


And the list just goes on, and on, and on.... I could honestly go on for pages about that type of stuff.

Open yourself up a bit, and it's a really cool culture. They have a lot of things right that us Westerners have wrong.

[Smiles]

Wow ... a cacophony of bullet points. What's next, an official Self-Adoration?

[cdnmatt]

Wow ... a cacophony of bullet points. What's next, an official Self-Adoration?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePRYhNNdzwk

[Nirish guy]

Gohn things it'll be over in 2 months, I told him to settle in for 16 months. ...... I'm making good money again, so don't worry, I'll help take care of you.

Based on YOUR track record of "taking care" though Matt, if he wasn't worried before he certainly should be NOW perhaps ! The poor guy thought he had it bad with Covid 19, that might end up the least of his problems little does he know once he sets up with you ;-)

[Marsilius]

What I find even more amazing is that the very people who speak "sawasdee krub Thai" are often those who are the most anti-immigrant in their own country -- the "leavers" in the UK and the alt-right in the US -- who want to keep their own home cultures pure.

Nothing too amazing, here. In nearly 30 years of trips to Thailand, I've often observed that most ex-pats I have encountered are right wing in both their political and cultural outlooks. Of course, it's a well observed fact that most ex-pats are older people - and that itself, as all polls confirm, makes them more likely to be conservative in their outlook. But it goes, I think, beyond that. The ex-pat retiree community in Thailand has always struck me as abnormally:

(a) embittered. Once they start opening up about themselves after a drink or two it's clear that many of them have been failures (either in their personal or economic lives) in their home countries and that they saw Thailand as offering (i) a fresh start, at (ii) a cost of living that appeared, at least initially, attractive, so that a "good" standard of Thai life could be achieved on the capital sum and any pension that might be brought from home.

(b) racist. In those conversations it can quickly become equally clear that at least some of them are very hostile, as Marc points out, to the currently prevailing standards of western liberal democracy and, in particular, multiculturalism and political correctness*. They resent the loss of what they see as their "rightful" status - confered by nothing more than their very ethnicity - in their own societies to immigrants and foreigners. On the basis of little more, I suspect, than a few early holidays, they came to perceive Thailand as a society with a comparatively rigid social structure where foreigners like them were (or at least appeared to them to be) treated with deference and respect. As such, their own hypocrisy and the irony of their position appear to have eluded them entirely.

Don't get me wrong, by the way. I don't actually agree with the OP's premise that anyone who moves to Thailand ought, on some sort of vaguely moral ground, to try to assimilate with the locals. It's a matter entirely up to them and, if they prefer not to learn Thai, cook food for the woman next door, or whatever, it's entirely their own decision - even though I'm sure that there could well be some definite practical advantages to their lives in Thailand if they voluntarily chose to do such things. Nonetheless, the reasons why some of the ex-pat community choose to isolate themselves socially in small enclosed communities of like-minded souls in a de haut en bas manner offer an undeniably fascinating psychological study.

[*One particular ex-pat Pattaya restaurateur, for instance, sends out a regular newsletter which, as well as predictably describing the treats on his menu, frequently contains barbed asides about how the modern UK has gone to the dogs, how things were never as good again after Margaret Thatcher, how glad he is that he hardly ever goes back, etc. etc.]

[francois]

Nonetheless, the reasons why some of the ex-pat community choose to isolate themselves socially in small enclosed communities of like-minded souls in a de haut en bas manner offer an undeniably fascinating psychological study.


Marsilius, Normally I agree with most of what you write, but this time I am missing the point. Most of the expats I know do not fit the mold you present.

[Marsilius]

Hi Francois

That, of course, is why I wrote - and even italicised - the word some.

Maybe because I am the same sort of age as the people I'm describing, I often find myself talking to them frequently and easily in bars (even though I don't share their world outlook or views in the slightest degree). I would say they make up a sizeable minority of the expats who have retired to Thailand and settled there who I have encountered over the years.

Maybe the ex-pats of your acquaintance are younger with a different outlook or merely working in Thailand rather than relocating there permanently? As such, their interaction with Thai people would be on a different basis and from a different perspective. Just a thought...

[sglad]

Marsilius, Normally I agree with most of what you write, but this time I am missing the point. Most of the expats I know do not fit the mold you present.

How can they fit the mold when they normally feed from the trough?