Supposing it all became too expensive...where next?

[poshglasgow]

The strength of the Baht is depressing. I remember some years ago when it was in excess of 70 Baht to the British Pound: terrific!

When I first visited Pattaya, in or around 1993, and stayed at the Penthouse, Pattayaland Soi 2 (gay friendly in those days and perhaps still is), the exchange rate (33 - 35 Baht) was a little less than it is today (39 Baht).

Apparently, some of the senior banking fraternity are pushing for a devaluation of the Baht, as tourism forecasts for Thailand are, sadly, disappointing. There is hope that Indian tourists will arrive in Thailand in their thousands and prop up the hotels and entertainment venues. The Chinese, apparently are sniffing around Vietnam. There is additional fear that hitherto stalwart single male tourists are now beginning to take a look at other venues: Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam. I'm hearing good reports, for example, about Taiwan and Israel.

My question is this: okay, we all reminisce about the mad past of Sunee and the glitz and facade of twinkle town - Boys(z) Town, but there is a feeling that slowly but surely the 'scene' is being ground down. I hear, for example, the price of drinks in some of the go-go bars and clubs are pushing past the 200 B in some greedy venues!!

So, if you decided to break with the habit of flying to Thailand year after year (like me) to spend your annual holiday allowance of, say, £2,000 - £3,000 for a fortnight's R and R, where would you go? Cuba? Vietnam? Rio? Cebu? Boracay? Taipei? Glasgow? (eh, no, don't go there for that)!

I am at the crossroad of indecision right now. I've made about 30 trips to Thailand in the past 27 years, where the focus has always been on Pattaya and Bangkok, for the same reasons we all go there - the flora, fauna and wildlife (!)

"Shall I, shan't I book Thailand for January 2020? Where will I find a comparable or better gay scene (perhaps a lesser known one or one in its infancy), with eager partners and where the price of food, accommodation and drinks is fair and reasonable?"

One helpful member of this board is a great supporter of Cuba and the more I hear about Cuba from others who have been there, the more I am inclined to book a flight!

I remember recently speaking to Mama Pai at the Sunee Plaza (plastic white/green chairs) bar last March, about the lack of tourists. "They all go Vietnam and Cambodia," she said.

Now, there are many on this forum who - quite understandably - state that you cannot beat Pattaya for the sheer availability and variety of gay partners. They claim the city, in worldwide terms, wins hands-down and they may well be right. But, I've never believed that Pattaya has a monopoly in this respect. Somewhere out there, in this rapidly melting planet of ours, is an emerging Sunee/Boys town/Jomtien Plaza, perhaps still in its infancy, desperate to fling open its doors to the pink pound: a pound/dollar that will go further than if it were used to purchase Thai Baht.

Are we, perhaps set in our ways? Are we deluded, conditioned? Do we arrive at BKK airport each year in the hope that it's all going to be as we remember it? I wonder how many of us live in the past, as we stroll up and down Pattayaland Sois 1 and 3, Soi Sunee, Soi Yensabi and Soi VC,?
"I hope the same boy will be in bar X. I hope my favourite restaurant will still be open and that my favourite Go-go bar will still be jumping with these angels in briefs! I'm guilty of living in the past and hoping that it will all return one day. It won't: it's moved on, but where?

I can't help feeling that its all coming to and end in Pats, and let's face it, many of us are the mature side of 65+ so we need to make very good use of the time and money available to us, instead of kicking over the ashes of what has been and unlikely ever to return.

Please PM me if you have any recommendations of an alternative venue(s) for my annual break in January. I'd love to hear your thoughts, in confidence of course, unless you reply openly in this thread.

PG

[frequent]

I refer you to bucknaway's excellent post about Brazil, buried away on p.4 of someone's thread about drink prices in Pattaya - https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?21138-Boyztown-drinks-prices-will-hit-500b/page4&highlight=Brazil

[poshglasgow]

Thanks Frequent, I've read his post with interest.

[neddy3]

The prices that he quotes certainly appear a bargain by comparison to Thailand.

There are other factors to consider, and I think that safety is one of them.
I have never felt unsafe in Thailand (well, maybe a few adventures in the traffic), but I have listened to
people talk about Rio, and that they cannot leave the hotel at night.
I have not been to Brazil, so would need further advice on this.

[chip]

The prices that he quotes certainly appear a bargain by comparison to Thailand.

There are other factors to consider, and I think that safety is one of them.
I have never felt unsafe in Thailand (well, maybe a few adventures in the traffic), but I have listened to
people talk about Rio, and that they cannot leave the hotel at night.
I have not been to Brazil, so would need further advice on this.

Safety in Rio is pretty much nil. I was waking down a main street during day light hours. Five guys rode by me on bikes. One turned around and rode by me again.
Then I heard a voice, good English I must say, "do you have the time sir?" he asked. I raised my left arm to look at my watch, he grabbed it and held a knife to my throat as the other guys on bikes were now going through my pockets looking for whatever they could find. I kept calm, told the guy with the knife there was no problem, take whatever they wanted. Finally after finding about $25.00 in one on my pockets they got on their bikes and rode away. No one the street helped, nor the owners of the business that were looking out their window at what was going on. I was calm and not excitable until the next day to realize I could have been hurt or killed. Thank god they did not find my credit cards or the cash I keep in my shoe. That was about me 5th trip to Rio and it was my last. The word unsafe does not adequately describe what can happen.

[frequent]

There's a 125-page thread on the Whiners and Whingers Forum aka. Thaivisa started by an SGT former member Jingthing (so it's sodomy-friendly) about Latin America
https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1087554-expats-in-thailand-considering-moving-to-latin-america-prompted-by-thai-visa-changes/#comments

[latintopxxx]

cant leave the hotel at night...LOL...ROFL...

[latintopxxx]

chip...theres the problem..u probably had a USD5000 watch ...even a newbie that has spent the last 20 years living under a rock knows that in brazil u wear NO jewlry..no cameras...no iphones...

[frequent]

chip...theres the problem..u probably had a USD5000 watch ...even a newbie that has spent the last 20 years living under a rock knows that in brazil u wear NO jewlry..no cameras...no iphones...Nowhere is really safe - I’ve been similarly mugged in central Kuala Lumpur with people looking on. It hasn’t stopped me going back

[frequent]

Marketwatch USA runs a regular question-and-answer series along these lines. All you need do is add a parameter such as "and the Latino boys are cheap and plentiful" and you may solve your problems https://www.marketwatch.com/story/im-59-have-2500-a-month-to-spend-and-want-an-artsy-community-near-the-ocean-thats-not-too-hot-where-should-i-retire-2019-11-11

[a447]

Try https://www.boytoy.com/forums/

[Oliver2]

a447 is correct in many respects but I've no desire to "try" other places. I did so in the 90s- in four continents- and my view was then that Thailand (in particular Pattaya) was sui generis.

Sadly, I'd never consider Brazil, anyway, with its homophobe, racist ,evangelical President setting himself up as a dictator. And I mean sadly because I love Brazilian football and the Afro-Brazilian culture a love forged by the film Black Orpheus which I saw in the 60s.

Pattaya still has unique qualities; good and competitively priced hotels....you can stay (for example) at The Agate for 1600pn and Zing for less. There are few places in the world where you can get such quality for such low prices, even after the strength of the baht is taken into account. Furthermore, I've never felt unsafe at night, even in the backstreets. Finally, and this is more important for me than perhaps for others, P and I can stroll hand-in-hand anywhere we choose without provoking so much as a second glance.

I count myself blessed that the the decline of the pound is a big nuisance to me rather than a game- changer. Mu future (such as it) lies there.

[goji]

1 £3000 is quite a satisfactory budget for a fortnight.
Assume we spend ~£600 on the flight, that's £2400 for 14 days.
6500 baht per day. I have no problem getting a hotel, coffee, food, more coffee, beach chairs, baht buses and a boy for less than this.
If the budget were looking a little stretched, I would examine expenditure in the other 52 weeks first. There may be something like a sub-optimal phone contracts, motoring costs or whatever that could be omptimized with little effort.
Or if one were gay & single, rent the spare room out to a cute student.

2 I've been to Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Burma, Malaysia and The Philippines, some several times. Whilst they are all worth visiting, I don't see any as a cheap alternative to Thailand.
For the R&R side, Philippines might be one of the better candidates. The boys expect 33~50% less than in Thailand and are available on the apps. However, I don't see the same price/quality offer with hotels that Thailand has. Some of the food is poor. I don't think it's as safe as Thailand & whilst I travelled around by public transport in the day time, I simply didn't bother taking a taxi to any of the gay bars.

3 I've not been to Brazil. Every forum I read has reports of muggings. I don't want to go around cocooned in taxis for safety. Even then, people get mugged between the taxi and the restaurant.

[chip]

chip...theres the problem..u probably had a USD5000 watch ...even a newbie that has spent the last 20 years living under a rock knows that in brazil u wear NO jewlry..no cameras...no iphones...

Don't make assumptions if you don't have the facts about me. I do not wear any jewelry, or watches when I travel and carry very little cash. I dress in jeans t-shirt and runners. I certainly don't exhibit wealth in any way. And for you assumption that every "newbie" should know what not to wear while there is certainly not true. An Asian fellow who was visiting Rio for the first time, a newbie as you call them, was robed of his back pack on the beach. He tried to get away with his back pack and was killed for his effort. Thailand is a great place to go, regardless of whether one is into the gay scene.

[chip]

gogi, smart move stay away from Brazil. Even the guys who act a bit gay are usually straight. The guys you meet in saunas are straight. They play the game well, do what they need to do quickly, they do as little as possible, most will not let you touch them take your money and leave. The gay scene in Rio and SP are pretty much "fake" when it comes to hustlers. The only plus years ago was it was cheap, their currency was in the toilet, it was at that time a cheap place to go, 20/25 years ago.

[Oliver2]

Chip's remark about Brazilian rent-boys reminds me that there's another reason to celebrate Thailand as the "numero uno" of gay destinations. ....the sheer number of gay guys there-and not just money-boys. Where else can you go to saunas and meet cute , gay guys who are there for pleasure for money? Yes, there are straight mbs and some of our community prefer them....but they don't claim to be anything other than they are.
Thai culture is much accepting of gay sexuality than Brazil and other Christian countries, or other faiths come to think of it.

[arsenal]

Rio de Janeiro is a truly awesome city to visit. The cable car ride to the top of Sugarloaf Mountain is fantastic. The beaches are wonderful for eye candy. The carnival is uninteresting and looks much better on tv. Visiting Christ the Redeemer on Corcovado Mountain is the most wonderful building I've ever seen. Simply inspiring. Playing football on the Copacabana is totally exhausting but thrilling. Their grilled meat on skewers is bloody and charred and delicious. Watching a football game at the world famous Maracana Stadium is following the ledends who've played there. Rio is definitely a must visit city in my view.


But for sex and boys and having fun, nowhere matches Pattaya. And safe safe safe too. Unless you act like a total arsehole.

[jvt22222]

About Brazil.... https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/11/29/being-gay-itaberli-lozano-mother-sentenced-killing-stabbing-own-son-hired-hitmen-brazil/

[neddy3]

Hard to believe.
But these things do happen.
Very sad.

[neddy3]

But for sex and boys and having fun, nowhere matches Pattaya. And safe safe safe too. Unless you act like a total arsehole.

And there is the bottom line.

[christianpfc]

My problem is not the exchange rate, but visa regulations that make me spend more and more time out of Thailand (if it wasn't for visa issues, I would spent all my time in Thailand, except summer trips to Germany). So I have been everywhere in SEAsia except Philippines, but plus Hong Kong and Taiwan, and nothing matches Pattaya.

I'm currently looking into Myanmar and Vietnam to spend more time in next year (from one-week-trips extending to month(s)). (Cambodia is too small and too poorly developed bus systems to travel around the country, and apart from Angkor Wat there is nothing to see anyway.)

Thailand has it all: gogo, massage, sauna.
Vietnam and Cambodia massage and sauna.
Myanmar massage but no sauna.

[frequent]

My problem is not the exchange rate, but visa regulations that make me spend more and more time out of Thailand (if it wasn't for visa issues, I would spent all my time in Thailand, except summer trips to Germany). So I have been everywhere in SEAsia except Philippines, but plus Hong Kong and Taiwan, and nothing matches Pattaya..Why not buy an Elite visa? A million baht and your problem is solved for the next 20 years

[Moses]

"Myanmar massage but no sauna "

check for "spa boy" in Blued :)

[riverdee]

I am going back in a few weeks time for my annual holiday and because of exchange rate it makes my accommodation and everything else a wee bit more expensive so I too wonder if it is my last (I hope not) been back and fore for the last 15 years and I also compare what used to be and remember my first time at krazy dragon when sunnee was vibrant.....anyway I too would look elsewhere for 2021 south America or even Cambodia never been anywhere else other than Jomtien for the last 15years love the place but maybe time for change??

[poshglasgow]

Try https://www.boytoy.com/forums/

Interesting forum A447: thanks for sharing.

[poshglasgow]

Why not buy an Elite visa? A million baht and your problem is solved for the next 20 years

Thanks Frequent. The messages I have received from other members of the forum say the same: Pattaya still leads, despite the strength of the Baht. I think I'll create my base, as in previous visits, at the Venue. At least I will be next door to @Home Bar which I enjoy.

I must fit in a short visit to Cambodia (I've never visited)!

[frequent]

Thanks Frequent. The messages I have received from other members of the forum say the same: Pattaya still leads, despite the strength of the Baht. I think I'll create my base, as in previous visits, at the Venue. At least I will be next door to @Home Bar which I enjoy.

I must fit in a short visit to Cambodia (I've never visited)!Pattaya is certainly the most appropriate place for many of our members

[BOY69]

I am going back in a few weeks time for my annual holiday and because of exchange rate it makes my accommodation and everything else a wee bit more expensive so I too wonder if it is my last (I hope not) been back and fore for the last 15 years and I also compare what used to be and remember my first time at krazy dragon when sunnee was vibrant.....anyway I too would look elsewhere for 2021 south America or even Cambodia never been anywhere else other than Jomtien for the last 15years love the place but maybe time for change??

Regarding Cambodia ChirstianPFC advised correctly :
"Cambodia is too small and too poorly developed bus systems to travel around the country, and apart from Angkor Wat there is nothing to see anyway."

[frequent]

"Cambodia is too small and too poorly developed bus systems to travel around the country, and apart from Angkor Wat there is nothing to see anyway."If you go only for the sex who cares about the scenery? There are a number of good trip reports (here are a couple) about Phnom Penh (https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?17136-Phnom-Penh-report-June) and Siem Reap (https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?16803-My-SE-Asian-sojourn-(Siem-Reap)). Frankly no-one here except christian is going to hare around Cambodia on a bus

[a447]

For me the main difference between Thailand and Cambodia is that in Thailand the guys find you, whereas in Cambodia you have to go out and find them.

It can be hard work. I can't be bothered looking anymore.

[goji]

Nothing to see but Angkor Wat, however Angkor Wat and the surrounding temple complex is probably the most impressive sight in SE Asia. Worth 3 days alone. Then add a day trip out to Preh Vihear.

Phnom Penh probably has about 2 days worth of sightseeing. Sihanoukville has numerous nice beaches and some wonderful tropical islands. Battambang, Kampot and even Kep are worth visits for the curious.

However, does everyone here go to Pattaya for the sightseeing ? Well only if we class the gogo bars as sightseeing !

Then there is the experience of seeing life in Cambodia. Quite different to Thailand.

I've been to Cambodia numerous times, including on my first 2 trips to Thailand. Partly to see something different from Thailand & partly as it's one of the solutions when my holiday exceeds 30 days.

Finding boys in Cambodia is more difficult than it used to be. Possibly as many of those inclined to rent themselves out have moved to Jomtien.

However, I will still go there again.

Finally, if I were hypothetically told to spend one month in a country that isn't Thailand, then out of the countries I have visited, it would be The Philippines. Selected due to availability of boys.

Note: I have yet to visit Bali and that gets good reports.

[AsDaRa]

Finding boys in Cambodia is more difficult than it used to be. Possibly as many of those inclined to rent themselves out have moved to Jomtien.


That can't be true that on a total Cambodian male population below 25 years of age only the few we see in Jomtien are willing to rent themselves out. The ones we see in Jomtien are a miniscule part of all males below 25 in Cambodia, or for that matter Siem Riep or Pnom Pen.

I think they just arent used to the apps or can't afford decent smart phones that run these apps and maybe that is why it is hard to find willing boys in Cambodia itself? They are there, but if they aren't on the apps there is no way to find them.

[frequent]

That can't be true that on a total Cambodian male population below 25 years of age only the few we see in Jomtien are willing to rent themselves out. The ones we see in Jomtien are a miniscule part of all males below 25 in Cambodia, or for that matter Siem Riep or Pnom Pen.Additionally Cambodians only get a 14-day visit each time; Lao get 30-days

[goji]

That can't be true that on a total Cambodian male population below 25 years of age only the few we see in Jomtien are willing to rent themselves out. The ones we see in Jomtien are a miniscule part of all males below 25 in Cambodia, or for that matter Siem Riep or Pnom Pen.

I think they just arent used to the apps or can't afford decent smart phones that run these apps and maybe that is why it is hard to find willing boys in Cambodia itself? They are there, but if they aren't on the apps there is no way to find them.

Don't assume all the under 25 year olds are willing to rent themselves out.

[arsenal]

Goji wrote.
"Don't assume all the under 25 year olds are willing to rent themselves out."

But in Pattaya it's always worth asking.

[frequent]

Goji wrote.
"Don't assume all the under 25 year olds are willing to rent themselves out."

But in Pattaya it's always worth asking.And there's the difference. Pattaya is just one giant brothel; goji was writing about Cambodia, which isn't

[Moses]

Finding boys in Cambodia is more difficult than it used to be.


When I fire Blued in PP or SR, I have about 15-20 offers at first hour.

[arsenal]

"Pattaya is just one giant brothel;"

Wahey.


"goji was writing about Cambodia, which isn't"

Sadly.

[goji]

When I fire Blued in PP or SR, I have about 15-20 offers at first hour.

On Blued, I had just a handful of conversations per day. Some initiated by me. I may have met one or perhaps 2 lads via Blued, but had more success on the other apps.
Why the difference ?
Well, I'm searching for a cute twinky bottom lad. Maybe you search for the same, or something different.
Maybe you look more like Daniel Ratcliffe than me, or have better profile pics ? I don't think I'll ever have a career as a male model, although I did get free sex on 2 out of 3 visits to the sauna in Phnom Penh.

[gerefan2]

On Blued, I had just a handful of conversations per day. Some initiated by me. I may have met one or perhaps 2 lads via Blued, but had more success on the other apps.
Why the difference ?


Blued is absolutely useless in my opinion. Maybe the Chinese love it but I’m not in China.
I know the boss here loves it but as far as I’m concerned it’s on fast track to the recycle bin.

[Moses]

I know the boss here loves it but as far as I’m concerned it’s on fast track to the recycle bin.

How I can not love it, if even in Moscow I have a lot offers from Thai, Chinese, Vietnamese? :)

[frequent]

Blued is absolutely useless in my opinion. Maybe the Chinese love it but I’m not in China.
I know the boss here loves it but as far as I’m concerned it’s on fast track to the recycle bin.I completely agree

[jvt22222]

GOJI .... Please what is the name of the sauna that you visited in Phnom Penh?

[christianpfc]

Blued saved my last trip to Yangon in October (little sightseeing due to rain, but lots of boys, most from blued), and recently overtook hornet in Thailand. (I use blued, hornet, gayromeo, in that order.)

[goji]

The Love Spa. About $3 entry if I remember correctly.

[jvt22222]

GOJI thank you