Electric cars - anyone any thoughts on that!?

[Nirish guy]

OK, so whilst I know it's not "gay" per se I'm guessing a chunk of us still drive cars so I thought I'd ask ( and post it in everything else in case anyone objects too much).

So, I'm currently trying to decide about buying an electric car......sorry to be clearer I've fairly much already decided to buy electric ( mainly for tax reasons I have to say) so now I'm trying to decide WHICH electric car. So far my two clear runners are the Tesla S or 3 series or the Jaguar I Pace ( I'm leaning more towards Tesla I think though) - so just wondering as it is all still quite a new area of development in the car industry as anyone perhaps bought either of the three about models ( or any of the other few options there are out there now) and if so what their own thoughts and experiences are ??

A bit of a long shot I know but I thought worth a try ?

[frequent]

OK, so whilst I know it's not "gay" per se I'm guessing a chunk of us still drive cars so I thought I'd ask ( and post it in everything else in case anyone objects too much).

So, I'm currently trying to decide about buying an electric car......sorry to be clearer I've fairly much already decided to buy electric ( mainly for tax reasons I have to say) so now I'm trying to decide WHICH electric car. So far my two clear runners are the Tesla S or 3 series or the Jaguar I Pace ( I'm leaning more towards Tesla I think though) - so just wondering as it is all still quite a new area of development in the car industry as anyone perhaps bought either of the three about models ( or any of the other few options there are out there now) and if so what their own thoughts and experiences are ??

A bit of a long shot I know but I thought worth a try ?I’ve done a lot of work for someone involved in the electric vehicle world so here’s my tuppence-worth:

If your motivation is environmental then have a look (Google is your friend) at the issues around battery recycling
I’m assuming it’s a “town car” so distance between charges should not be an issue but there’s anecdotal evidence that the “distance between charges” as suggested by the manufacturers is often very optimistic; some owners report charging itself is not always as reliable as it should be
While Musk is a visionary there’s speculation about how long his loss-making car manufacturing can last - but then they said that about Jeff Bezos and Amazon
I’d be going for the more “local” manufacturer - which means Jaguar - rather than a distant manufacturer like Tesla
If it were me I’d rather go for a hybrid; I don’t believe that electric vehicle technology is quite there yet

Don’t think that many of those thought bubbles really help if you’ve already set your heart on “going electric” however, but it kicks the topic along. And if you’re really adventurous there’s an electric vehicle charging station in CP Tower on Silom* although I haven’t inspected closely to see what manufacturers it supports. Unfortunately charging stations are like mobile phone chargers a few years ago - every manufacturer has their own ideas and there is no interchangeability, unlike petrol pumps

* You’ll appreciate that as I’m still teaching Latin in sglad’s former classroom in Houston that information is pure speculation. Speaking of learning Latin and sglad, we spent the morning on the second declension which, as any fule kno, includes “catamitus”

[cdnmatt]

My only commend on electric cars is they should put regulations on them forcing them to make a noise of some kind.

I can't count the number of times an electric car went whizzing past me, and I didn't notice until it would have been too late if I was in its path. Some type of noise coming from the engine so I can hear a car coming would be great.

[Nirish guy]

As Frekky says and to keep the conversation moving along for those / anyone who may be interested after doing a bit of digging into the whole thing this week to try and make some sense of it I'll just add the following to some of the above :

If your motivation is environmental...." being honest It really isn't / wasn't, I guess if it helps in some way then fine but it's not something i gave much thought too, as I'd have to be honest and say my first and main consideration were the very favourable tax benefits that the British Government have implemented for businesses re electric cars re first year allowance claims and a temporary zero rate personal "benefit in kind" tax rate, all to encourage electric car use here.

"I don’t believe that electric vehicle technology is quite there yet" A week ago I would have agreed with you and looking at some of the smaller older options yeah perhaps, but some of this years models I'm actually not sure that applies anymore and I know in terms of straight 0-60 "speed" in the Tesla In was test driving on Saturday not blew my away, I can honestly say I've never felt torque or an instant burst of speed like it - 0-60 in something like 4 seconds, instantly, every time - absolutely mind blowing !


"I’m assuming it’s a “town car” ,,,," Yes, fairly much, with the odd road trip thrown in occasionally, but saying that the likes of the Telsa "long range" model suggests a range of over 350 miles now and even allowing for manufacturers bullshit and other driving factors apparently around the 300 mile IS now possible, so that I'm guessing should suffice for most people, especially when installing putting a low cost ( and grant funded here in the UK at least) wall charger at home or at your office, which is the way they seem to be pushing things now.

"there is no interchangeability, unlike petrol pumps......" I believe in general that has been fairly much addressed now and whilst Tesla do keep their own connector for their own "pumps" thats more as they can pump out 150kws of power, which is about 3 times what most other brands are even capable of taking, meaning they charge much faster - BUT they also then give an adaptor too so that you can charge their car on all other main pumps as well and all other cars seem to operate off the one fitting there after now then it seems.

"Some type of noise coming from the engine ..... would be great" Whilst I know what you mean the trouble there of course is that there IS no engine to make a noise from ! Although I see that Jaguar have actually added a totally false and weird fake semi (jet!) engine noise to their car both for that reason and also I think to impress the driver too. Telsa have a noise mode if you wish when driving at slow speeds ( in car parks and the like) so people can hear you coming. But yes i dont dispute driving towards someone at 60mph would certainly pose more of a challenge to be heard than in a petrol engined car - mind you being selfish it also makes for one hell of a quieter ride for the driver and passenger though !

[frequent]

"Some type of noise coming from the engine ..... would be great" Whilst I know what you mean the trouble there of course is that there IS no engine to make a noise from ! Although I see that Jaguar have actually added a totally false and weird fake semi (jet!) engine noise to their car both for that reason and also I think to impress the driver too. Telsa have a noise mode if you wish when driving at slow speeds ( in car parks and the like) so people can hear you coming. But yes i dont dispute driving towards someone at 60mph would certainly pose more of a challenge to be heard than in a petrol engined car - mind you being selfish it also makes for one hell of a quieter ride for the driver and passenger though !I generally encourage objectionable children to go and play in the traffic

[goji]

1 Drive the cars and sit in them.
The Tesla looks super from the outside, but inside it has a crazy touch screen display with menus to control everything. You even need to navigate menus to open the glovebox.
I have no idea about the Jag, but if both fail to meet your expectations, loads of other manufacturers are launching electric cars.

2 Tesla have issues with reliability and service.

3 Remember the battery range in 5 years time will probably be lower than when new. I believe manufacturers have now got a grip on this, so you will probably retain over 90% of original capacity. Incidentally, it's not good for battery life to continually run from fully charged to empty (Li Ion batteries are very different to the old NiCd or NiMnH batteries)

4 Hopefully you have off road or garaged parking where you can charge the damn thing ?

5 Depreciation on a brand new car will vastly exceed any tax saving. However, I suspect you know this and it's a way of justifying a new toy. Fine as you can probably afford to treat yourself ;).

[a447]

I looked into buying a Tesla last year, but decided against it because the build quality was appalling compared to a German car, for example.

There were large panel gaps and the boot (trunk) area was particularly badly assembled. The rear lights did not match up perfectly either.

I can see it falling to pieces very quickly.

[dinagam]

If you're not particularly against supporting the Chinese economy you might find a better alternative to American /European cars in a year or two for their technologies are improving by leaps and bounds. I find their current products are value for money.

[Nirish guy]

Ha i dont want to sound like a tesla groupie as I had the same thoughts as most of you above BUT again on really checking it out this last two weeks I've noted the following online and on user groups etc.....( and not to disagree with anyone, but just to keep us all update with things as it is a very quickly evolving industry of course)......ha and I'm also realising that in my own "defending" of tesla here it seems that I may well have answered my own question as to which brand I subconsciously prefer ! I've a test drive of the jag tonight and the Tesla S at the weekend so D day approaches re decision day !

"Tesla have issues with reliability and service" - I guess all cars do at some level but interesting I see Tesla rate way up there in the service league tables - cant remember the exact number now but is was like 23 out of 50 or something whereas amazing the jar was a poor 37 !! Go figure eh !

"Hopefully you have off road..... where you can charge the damn thing ?" Yep. that the plan and is what Tesla actively encourage now and in fact theres a £500 STG grant to enable you to install a home charging point in your garage or wherever you choose ( it seems it actually only costs about £250-300 tops too so thats nice. If I proceed I'm also going to pop one it at the office at work and charge up there ( so the firm pays for the juice at least lol) and that should be covered no matter where I go ( locally) and then just plan to charge 'on the road" where after after that - but with the range of roughly 300 miles it wont be every day I'm doing trips like that anyway between charges anyway so should all work out ok.

"Depreciation on a brand new car will vastly exceed any tax saving" - Actually in my case I'm probably going to PCP ( personal contract hire) that car so there is no depreciation ( accounts wise) but there IS 100% allowance of the purchase against Company tax, this will save me around £13.000 instantly off this years company tax bill and thats before any savings re using electric over petrol etc. This is very roughly a cost of say £10 -£15 to "fill up" compared to say £80 for a petrol fill for that same 300 miles range ! Also in the UK theres a £3500 government grant on purchase just to encourage to go electric AND for a limited period it has a ZERO rate for personal benefit tax which saves a further 16% personal tax too, so not so shabby tax benefit just now it seems - this by the way is only in the UK and is for a year or two only, so dont read these figures and take then as fact "later"

"I looked into buying a Tesla last year, but decided against it because the build quality was appalling" - Yep, I would have agreed with you there ( and still might !) but it seems the new model 3 is a whole new beast and the build quality is the best they've ever had, so if it's been a while maybe worth another look."

"you might find a better alternative to American /European cars in a year or two for their technologies are improving by leaps and bounds" Thats very true also and both the Jag Ipace and the Audi e tron are definitely up there as worth a look now and as you say there are others catching up on a monthly basis, I think for sure electric ( and automated driving it seems !) are definitely the way things are going. That whole auto park feature and "call your car" to come to you in a car park are fairly sharp - oh and for anyone who hasn't driven one yet - the acceleration of an electric car - OH MY GOD ! it's eye watering !! press the pedal and you're pushed into the back of the seat as if you're in an F1 car almost - something crazy like 0=60 in about 3 something seconds - it's just mental ( and great fun ! :-)

[a447]

the acceleration of an electric car - OH MY GOD ! it's eye watering !! press the pedal and you're pushed into the back of the seat as if you're in an F1 car almost - something crazy like 0=60 in about 3 something seconds - it's just mental ( and great fun ! :-)

Yep. That's precisely why I checked it out in the first place. It's insane.

Mmmm....time for another look perhaps.

[goji]

If I proceed I'm also going to pop one it at the office at work and charge up there ( so the firm pays for the juice at least lol)
Yes I doubt HMRC have any way of tracking this particular "free fuel" perk & for all I know they might have even not got around to taxing this anyway.

[francois]

Buy an electric car you can afford, a Ford (electric Mustang).

[Jellybean]

What an interesting topic, if I may say so, NIrish-guy. I was thinking about buying a hybrid car next year, but will wait and see what the state of my finances are like after I return from my up and coming three month trip to Thailand.

I look forward with interest to reading your reviews following your test drives of the Jaguar tonight and the Tesla S at the weekend.


. . . tax benefits . . . first year allowance claims . . . temporary zero rate . . . personal "benefit in kind" tax rate . . . no depreciation ( accounts wise) but there IS 100% allowance of the purchase against Company tax . . . AND for a limited period it has a ZERO rate for personal benefit tax which saves a further 16% personal tax too, so not so shabby tax benefit . . .

And what can I say about the above quotes? Music to my ears as a former employee of HMRC, that’s what I can say. LOL!


Yes I doubt HMRC have any way of tracking this particular "free fuel" perk & for all I know they might have even not got around to taxing this anyway.

Hmmm . . . I think you’ll find, goji, that HMRC local office officers will have been giving serious thought to the matter and submitting reports and cases up to head office for technical guidance since the issue of electric cars was first introduced and questions asked about their taxability. And in turn, head office civil servants will have considered the effect on the Fuel Benefit Charge as soon as it became clear that employers and taxpayers would be changing from fuel to electric driven vehicles and given advice to HM Treasury for legislative action. And, contrary to popular belief, tax officers don't spend all day counting beans, not even jelly beans. :D

Below are two links. One to HMRC internal Employment Income Manual and the other to a guide for Checking if UK taxpayers/employers need to pay tax for charging an employee’s electric car:

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim23900

https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-electric-company-cars

[Nirish guy]

Buy an electric car you can afford, a Ford (electric Mustang).

Thats actually a very interesting addition to the options list for anyone thinking of buying in 2020 and certainly ticks a lot of key boxes. Re the "you can afford part" ( Im assuming that's a general comment and not specific to myself there btw :-) actually I've found when buying ( renting ) on a PCP contract the monthly costs are all within maybe £200-£250 or so of each other no matter WHAT car you buy - but starting in the £40/50K bracket and with a good range ( if accurate) that mustang certainly seems to look like it's going to shake up the market even more, which is a good thing of course.

[Nirish guy]

I look forward with interest to reading your reviews following your test drives of the Jaguar tonight and the Tesla S at the weekend.


Well I'll not bore every one with my thoughts much on the cars as there's a ton of websites that offer a much better review than I ever will, suffice to say I'm raging as I went to the Jag dealership mentally quite minded that I was actually getting a Tesla and was just ticking the Jag off the list - HOWEVER - I left the dealership now more confused than ever as the Jag is also a great car ( and a bit cheaper too than the Tesla S range that it directly compares too).

I guess the one main difference being that Jaguar is a company who KNOW how to build a car and have done so well and then added their battery tech to that, whereas Tesla seem to be more a company who know about batteries and the like and have come up with loads of trendy / geeky features and then added wheels around those ideas.

The cars in question :

https://www.jaguar.co.uk/jaguar-range/i-pace/index.html
( SE or HSE models - around £72K, 5k deposit and £774pm PCP, actual cost to be after tax and fuel benefits added back is about £480 pmon PCP)

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/models
( Long range model around £80k,10K deposit and £746 pm PCP, actual after tax and fuel benefits added back is about £635)

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/model3
- ( long range option - around £48k and about £608pm PCP - actual cost to me after all tax and fuel savings factored in is about £431)

I have to admit on paper the Jag looks like the "sensible" option, but after feeling that drive and the torque in that Tesla ...OMG....who wants sensible perhaps :-)

PS lovely to see that this thread developed as it did. I was fully expecting to get slaughtered for it :-) But nice to see we are at some level all normal people with real world interests too ........well SOME of the of the time anyway, this is when we ( and I ) are not busy discussing off fess and and complaining that 300 baht in a bar is just to high for a beer that is :-) lol

[goji]

Buy the Jag.

[a447]

OMG....who wants sensible perhaps

After one reaches a certain age I think it's perfectly OK to buy with your heart and not your head.

[Nirish guy]

After one reaches a certain age I think it's perfectly OK to buy with your heart and not your head.

Yes perhaps you’re right - but maybe not always as one that point of anyone wishes to buy an used 13 inch mains powered jumbo headed double ended dildo please contact me and I’ll be sure to forward your details to the seller !! Lol ( JOKE !!! :-)

[francois]

Re the "you can afford part" ( Im assuming that's a general comment and not specific to myself there btw :-)

Just a pun, "if a car you can't afford, buy a car you can, a Ford."

[Nirish guy]

Just a pun, "if a car you can't afford, buy a car you can, a Ford."

Ahhh ok, I see, well. now I must just be to young to remember that particular campaign what with me (almost) being a child of the 70's and all that :)

[francois]

You are much too young NIrish guy, that pun dates back to 1920 or earlier.

[frequent]

I see Musk is subtracting value, as usual - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/22/elon-musk-net-worth-tesla-cybertruck

[Nirish guy]

Absolutely, the man really is a tool of the highest order. Even his own staff concede that BUT also the general view too is that he has to be a bit nuts in order to push the boundaries of things on the way he does too - personally I’m leaning closer to the “dick” view, but I guess one can’t help give him some credit for pushing the envelope in design areas etc way more and way faster than other companies do.

[Nirish guy]

So, just as a final conclusion to this thread Im pleased to report that after another test drive or two I ( finally) placed my order.......for the Tesla "performance" Model 3.

If I'm being honest I think the Jag Ipace, for the money, was probably the better, more classy car and was much more of a quality executive cruiser type car BUT the Tesla was just way more fun to drive and for perhaps the first time in my life I didn't "think too much" about all the twists of turns of each car ( well, not much !) and after putting my foot down on the accelerator in the model 3 ( 0 to 60 in 3.2 seconds !! ) and hanging on for dear life whilst happily shouting HOLY FUCKKKKK a few times I just said fuck it and went for it !

Aside from the speed and handling the Tesla IS a great car too actually and has a ton of really innovative bells and whistles built in. ( it even has a "fart" mode built in so you can make your passengers think others have farted lol - ridiculous I know but hey :)

So, when it arrives next month I'll drive it for a few years and once I decide I'm too old to get any fun out of it I'll change it back for the likes of the Jag maybe then - perhaps!? :-)

[latintopxxx]

electric cars are sooo stoooopid

[frequent]

electric cars are sooo stoooopidI remember reading a review of the book Jonathon Livingston Seagull where it was described as “deep thoughts for the Under Fives”

[Nirish guy]

electric cars are sooo stoooopid

Do you actually know anything about them or have you actually driven one or is that just a generalisation perhaps ?

[Nirish guy]

Yes I doubt HMRC have any way of tracking this particular "free fuel" perk & for all I know they might have even not got around to taxing this anyway.

Just for general future info for anyone that's interested I found the answer to the above on the Tesla website - basically there is no tax on electricity given / required to power an electric car when the power is supplied by your employer, the full answer is posted below :


Car Fuel Benefit Charge
As electricity is not classed as a road fuel, Tesla cars have no fuel benefit charge. That means employees are exempt from paying benefit-in-kind on electricity provided by their employer to charge an electric company car.

Advisory Fuel Rates
As electricity is not classed as a road fuel, the car fuel benefit charge does not pply to electric charging. If an employee uses a company car, no benefit-in-kind occurs when charging their vehicle at the workplace.

The advisory fuel rate for fully electric vehicles has been confirmed by HMRC as 4 pence per mile.


The URL that lists the above, as well as many of the other ( UK) tax benefits of driving a (new) fully electric car can be found at :
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/incentives

[latintopxxx]

its not the electric cars, its the type of people who drive them...smug twits who believe their shyte doesnt stink....oh and the child labour propping up tyrants that control the mines that make up the huge batteries that are then dumped after 5 minutes of use poisoning the land

[Nirish guy]

its not the electric cars, its the type of people who drive them...smug twits who believe their shyte doesnt stink.

Ah right, so just as I thought, just a sweeping generalisation then and I should just ignore your first comment altogether about electric cars being so stoooopid then, right ok, no worries. just whatever you think.

[frequent]

...smug twits who believe their shyte doesnt stink....Are those twits more smug than the twits who say "shyte" rather than "shit"?

[arsenal]

frequent wrote.
"Are those twits more smug than the twits who say "shyte" rather than "shit"?"

Difficult to come up with a definitive answer to that. But a worthwhile thing to try and find out..

[latintopxxx]

one word...margarine

[Nirish guy]

one word...margarine

Thats the most sensible thing you've said in this entire thread so far......

[frequent]

Thats the most sensible thing you've said in this entire thread so far......I assumed it was somehow a reference to the "butter scene" in Last Tango in Paris - https://www.metatube.com/en/videos/329641/La-Mantequilla-Escena-Ultimo-Tango-en-Paris/

[Nirish guy]

Just as quick follow on to this thread for those who may have been interested at the time....

So, just to say that my new car ( a Tesla Model 3 Performance ) arrived about 6 weeks ago and I'm absolutely LOVING it ! It drives like it's on rails and it so comfortable and easy to drive, especially in autopilot mode of course too ! The acceleration is like nothing Im guessing that most of us will have ever experienced in a car before, even in the super car end of the market ( it could real neck breaker if you dont remember to put your head back on the head rest before "launching it" ( I dont drive like that EVERY day of course .....but it's fun when I want to ) plus it has enough bells and whistles all built in to basically its big iPad that controls everything it to keep even the keenest tech / geek head amongst us happy - and has already had 3 "over the air" updates from Tesla adding and improving even more things even in the short time I've had it which is great too !

The whole electric "miles / range" thing as it's 100% electric that some people think they'll worry about for me has just been a non issue and I've gone everywhere and anywhere I want to without having to even think or worry about that in any way whatsoever ( I charge up at home just as it's cheap and easy - just myself now that I think of it ! :-)).

So, yeah, for anyone who was read the original thread and thought hmmm "I wonder how that'll will all work out in the end " I'm pleased to say that I''m really delighted with it. I'm SO not a car person in any way and yet Im really enjoy getting in to drive in every day, which for me is something. So, so far so good and glad to say the right decision for me which makes a nice change :-)

[latintopxxx]

..as long a YOU are happy and fuck the planet...

[Nirish guy]

Not quite sure how you come to that idea that driving an electric car is "fucking the planet", well anymore than an ICE car anyway ....but the first part about being happy then yes you're absolutely bang on there......

[latintopxxx]

...google it...

[arsenal]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/new-study-electric-cars-may-be-worse-for-the-environment-than-gas-powered

[Nirish guy]

We could of course play this cross posting nonsense all day long and as you said Latin if you REALLY want to examine the issue “google it” ( properly)..... PS that article published “today” is based on a report that was actually published in 2015 and has been widely debunked now so “old” ( and incorrect) news I’m afraid.

Whilst no one denies making batteries for ALL cars isn’t without its problems environmentally, the key point of course when an ICE car leaves the factory it keeps producing emissions for the rest of its days whereas an EV simply doesn’t, that’s not such a difficult concept to grasp.

Likewise most negative studies ( which are more than often than not funded by oil companies somewhere down the line) base their “facts” on EVs being juiced up by electric produced by coal fired power at stations, whereas in fact upwards of 50% of such power from stations is and can be produced by renewable methods now ( the fact that China so far refuse to embrace that technology fully yet cant really be blamed on EV manufacturers of course), for example only something like 2% of power in the UK now comes from coal burning stations, which again totally kills the argument in that very old “study”.

However as I don’t intend / CBA getting into this conversation on here, which enviably will just go round in circles I’ll leave it with you - except to say no where in any of my posts have “I” promoted any green credentials for either Re myself or for EV cars, that would be you brought that up, that’s not the reason I bought my car and I don’t profess to be anymore “green” than anyone else here - but hey don’t let that stop you trying to troll about that fact eh :-) .

Oh and just to show that anyone can post links to “facts” on the internet ( which of course very rarely are...) here’s a few for you too...

So there you go, it’s really not rocket science - that’s the other company Elon Musk owns I believe ! :/)

enjoy.

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/environment

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesellsmoor/2019/05/20/are-electric-vehicles-really-better-for-the-environment/amp/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_aspects_of_the_electric_car

[latintopxxx]

...furthermore...what to do with the half ton toxic batteries once they expire....the fact that in most countries coal is still burnt to generate electricity....that the battery raw materials come mostly from counties with no enviornmental regulations...run by dictators...no human rights...and use child labour....
But NOOOOO...as long as u r happy.

[Nirish guy]

And there you go, making its all about “me” again ..... if you “really” give a shit about the subject ( which I severely doubt anyway) then as you said - go google it a bit more and educate yourself from various sources ( not sponsored from the oil industry for starters might be good) but I’ll leave you too that, not my job.

Good luck .....

Oh ps - did I mention that I think my car is fucking brilliant and I love it ! So yes its all about me me MEEEEE - just the way it should be !! :-)

[Nirish guy]

So just as an side and on remembering this old thread just wondering did anyone (else) maybe go and add any Tesla stock to their portfolio when reading this thread at the time, maybe buying them and then forgetting about them again for a while, as if so you might want to go check your portfolio and have a quick look ( and get ready to go blow some of it and get blown using some of it ! :-)

Currently sitting at $1007 a share and rising ( up from $110 at the time of the above thread!!!) !. Crazy !

There are a number of Tesla success stories of their climb of late plus just today Hertz car hire announcing they have ordered 100,000 Telsa's to add to their hire fleet certainly didn't hurt either I'm guessing !

[Jellybean]

So just as an side and on remembering this old thread just wondering did anyone (else) maybe go and add any Tesla stock to their portfolio when reading this thread at the time, maybe buying them and then forgetting about them again for a while, as if so you might want to go check your portfolio and have a quick look ( and get ready to go blow some of it and get blown using some of it ! :-)

Currently sitting at $1007 a share and rising ( up from $110 at the time of the above thread!!!) !. Crazy!

11736

Wow! So generous, thanks a lot NIrish-guy. ;)

[Nirish guy]

lol well there seems to be a queue forming, first A447 offering to buy the whole of Pattaya a drink when the bars reopen ( at least that's the way I read it !!! ) and now myself being volunteered to buy lets say no more than 10 coca colas, in small glasses and only applicable during happy hour.....wow this is shaping up to be quite some party ! ( see who said it was only the Scottish who are tight ! :-)

Ha Im so joking as if things carry on the way they are - hell I might even buy you all TWO drinks (of coca cola) - but FUCK it, I'll even splash out and you can all have that in a PINT Glass no less !!! Woo HOOOOOO PARTYYYYYYY :) :-)

[arsenal]

This is an interesting piece. It's about the issue that all electrical vehicles have, the refuelling. Obviously within the next decade or two the charging points will increase 100 fold and equally importantly battery technology will make huge leaps but right now it's a problem.

The latest saga from the Charley Boorman/Euan McGregor series saw them travel by electric bike from southern Patagonia to LA and they faced similar problems. The freedom of the open road that motorbikes give you was compromised and clearly frustrating.


https://news.sky.com/story/climate-crisis-how-easy-is-it-to-drive-from-lonI don-to-cop26-in-glasgow-using-an-electric-car-12455784

[goji]

This is an interesting piece. It's about the issue that all electrical vehicles have, the refuelling. Obviously within the next decade or two the charging points will increase 100 fold and equally importantly battery technology will make huge leaps but right now it's a problem.

Obviously they also need to add electricity generating capacity for all these electric vehicles and all the heat pumps for domestic heating.
My estimate was about 3.5x current levels, based on 12,000 miles a year and a COP of 4 for the heat pumps.

Obviously the buffoons running the country are not doing that, in the case of the UK.
Perhaps it will be OK for people prepared to have their heat pumps go off for days on end when the wind isn't blowing. For the other 99.5%, it will not be enough.

I don't think Germany is doing much better either. They are closing their nuclear plants, so where is the reliable zero carbon base load electric supply going to come from ?
Wind is not reliable enough for that, as is proven by current fluctuations in output.

[Nirish guy]

Obviously within the next decade or two the charging points will increase 100 fold and equally importantly battery technology will make huge leaps but right now it's a problem.


For public chargers this for sure is what now needs to happen and fast, the governments have been caught sleeping on the job ( as usual) as while the rest of the world latched on to "electric" they hesitated in installing the chargers and now they're rushing to play catch up. Another problem is that instead of ACTUALLY installing them like all useless government bodies they decided to tender that out to suppliers, who of course had then to install the cheapest (most crap) chargers they could source, which then broke down within months of being installed rendering the whole charger idea useless again to a lot of people.

I should add that Tesla should not be included in the above ( and it's one of the reasons many people buy them) as they DID invest in their OWN charging networks all over the globe and they work just fine, again demand in busy cities is starting to outstrip supply but they're still opening plently of new chargers all the time so seem to be keeping pace with that mainly.

Also the issue is that people were buying cheaper ( non tesla) battery cars with smaller charge holding batteries, that maybe only held say 150 mile range i.e for going to the shops and running about town etc and only accepted a charge at quite a slow speed, but they then decided to go on say a 2000 mile road trip and THEN complained that they had to stop to charge all the time ( surprise surprise) and again that ( surprise surprise) the PUBLIC charging network was crap and slow it look them ages to find / get charges etc ( all probably quite correct). So again a case of shit PUBLIC charging networks PLUS then perhaps buying the wrong car for their ACTUAL needs.

I see Tesla have said they're going to open their charging network to a few other manufacturers soon which left a few tesla owners a bit pissed off I think as part of what they paid for WAS the access to a good network, but as the Telsa network is so wide spread and their chargers are much faster than many of the public ones it should all balance out ok hopefully.

The Euan McGreagor programme was intended of course to be extreme and I dont think they EVER intend or planned to be able to charge satisfactorily where they were going ( hence towing generators with them and all sorts) and was made more the the TV value of it than any EV experiment perhaps. It's well known EV batteries aren't ( weren't) great in freezing cold temperatures, plus their actual batteries were tiny etc, but even they once they hit normal temperatures did work quite well ( and that battery tech is even now considered quite old actually.)

Certainly with Tesla ( and the others will follow in a while no doubt) there have been big leaps in battery tech even very recently and their range numbers ( 400+ miles on charge now etc) will become normal now.

It should be said to and the ideal set up is for the car owner to install a 7kw charger on their wall at home and when you pull into the driveway at night you simply plug in and when you come back out later your car is fully charged, just as you do with your mobile phone at night when going to bed, with the need then to use the public chargers only becoming necessary on longer road trips etc. But again the same people who are buying "cheap" electrics cars to "save money" are it seems also the same people who are refusing to spend the £500 ? ONCE to install the home charger and insist on going and sitting taking up space at public chargers every other day, while complaining on social media that "another bloody queue at the charger" - a queue that they and people are like them are causing and could easily avoid ever happening ! So for sure there's still a bit of education needed to take place there it seems until people "get it".

Thankfully as I have a home charger installed and my (old) 2 year plus Telsa holds around 330 miles on a charge I've yet to have a problem - and thats after my driving it all over Ireland and around France, Spain and the Swiss Alps ( where there were Tesla chargers a plenty - but again "I" wouldn't have liked to have been trying THAT trip depending on PUBLIC network governments chargers I fear !

If in doubt buy a tesla - if nothing else just to help boost their / my stock values so I can retire (even) earlier !!! lol

[a447]

The number of Teslas arriving in Australia is increasing all the time, but it is still difficult to get hold of one.

When I want something, I want it NOW so having to wait for one is incredibly frustrating.

Although I'd prefer a Tesla over any other EV, I actually put my name down on a waiting list for the new Hyundai Ioniq 5, not really expecting to get one. And that's exactly what happened. Over 11,000 people put their name on a waiting list for 400 cars and they sold out in 2 hours! I didn't even get a look-in!

I've been feeling really good since reconciling myself to the fact that I won't be able to travel to Thailand until at least April. I don't even think about it anymore.

So I've now decided to do the same with an EV. I won't even think about it till the second half of next year. By then the charging infrastructure should be in place.

So.....let's see what else I can worry about instead!

[goji]

I actually put my name down on a waiting list for the new Hyundai Ioniq 5, not really expecting to get one. And that's exactly what happened. Over 11,000 people put their name on a waiting list for 400 cars and they sold out in 2 hours!

Those things look absolutely superb in the pictures. I keep looking out for one on the streets.

If your residence is suitable for solar panels, then solar panels & an electric car is one way to protect yourself from energy crises. At a price. Might even get enough sun for it in Australia.

[Nirish guy]

The number of Teslas arriving in Australia is increasing all the time, but it is still difficult to get hold of one. When I want something, I want it NOW!

Not sure when you last checked but unless you're ordering a very specific colour scheme re seats / battery pack / paint colour and those all being different for some reason etc, do be sure to check the Tesla "stock" page as you could well find they have exactly the model you were thinking of anyway sitting "in stock" but they (weirdly) dont tell you that when you're trying to place an order on line ( as they push you towards) and so they just take each order as a "new" order even if they have one of the same thing ( or very cloose to it) sitting there it seems, so it can be worth a quick call / check with them to check their "actual" quietly in stock models.

Also as A447 and I had discussed chargers ( or the lack of them ) in Austrialia before and I'd agreed with you that they seemed thin on the ground, I see just from a quick glance again there that they ( Telsa at least) do seem to have been steadily adding to them there it seems,. so just as a totally random test example I fired a totally random journey from say Melbourne to Canberra into the free charger locater app you can use just to see how that trip panned out.

As you can see below It came back to say there were at least 6 charging bases ( each could contain several / multiple charger stations at each base or not just depending on the location ) but all mainly "enroute", with others then showing further away ( in case you changed direction mid journey) otherwise it only highlghts the route based ones as that's what I'd asked for.

The charging time over for the entire journey was 33 mins in total i.e roughly two x 16 min stops along the way ( which I'm guessing you'd be doing anyway on a 6 hour drive), so all quite "doable". I've attached the map showing those charge points just for general info.

11754

Should anyone else be wondering "would a trip in my area of the world work charging wise etc" that's a good (free) App / Website you can use to find that out - it's called " A better route planner" ( https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ ) and just tell it whatever car you're driving ( works for all cars not just tesla) and it will work out the entire journey for you - and you can plan in shopping / toilet stops etc as you prefer. Takes all the hard work out of planning trips and I've found it very handy when travelling outside of my local areas.