Thai political discussion

[frequent]

... its a pitty the Thai government do not worn their citizens to be cautious about taking a job in this countries.I fear you mistake the role of the Thai government. In the countries many of us come from the acknowledged role of government is “of the people, by the people, for the people”. Apart from the brief Shinawatra periods, Thai government is “of the people, by the elite, for the elite”

[BOY69]

I hardly can say that Shinwatra regime was "for the people" he was a populist billionaire that knew how to manipulate the masses to his own purposes , he tried to break "the holly trinity" of the traditional Thai regime the army,the monarchy and the Parliament not for the beneficiary of the Thai people but to gain absolute power that's why he had been removed from power by the elite.
Paradoxically the biggest economic growth was after the Thai army took power and removed Shinwatra sister from her possition as prime minister.

[Mancs]

Though it was Yingluck Shinawatra's government which put up the minimum wage by some 40% to 300 bt in 2012 for Bangkok and six other provinces.

[frequent]

I hardly can say that Shinwatra regime was "for the people" he was a populist billionaire that knew how to manipulate the masses to his own purposes , he tried to break "the holly trinity" of the traditional Thai regime the army,the monarchy and the Parliament not for the beneficiary of the Thai people but to gain absolute power that's why he had been removed from power by the elite.
Paradoxically the biggest economic growth was after the Thai army took power and removed Shinwatra sister from her possition as prime minister.Believing that the Bangkok Post is not an organ of elite propaganda is like believing that Fox News provides a balanced commentary on US affairs

[Oliver2]

....and The Nation is even worse.

[BOY69]

Believing that the Bangkok Post is not an organ of elite propaganda is like believing that Fox News provides a balanced commentary on US affairs

I am not naive who believe the Bangkok Post or the Nation are not organ of the elite but I am not fool who believe that Taksin Shinawatra was a democratic honest leader because he wasn't all he wanted is to break the elites power so he can gain absolute power like Putin in Rusia or Erdogan in Turkey who also claim they are "democratic" leaders.

[frequent]

I am not naive who believe the Bangkok Post or the Nation are not organ of the elite but I am not fool who believe that Taksin Shinawatra was a democratic honest leader because he wasn't all he wanted is to break the elites power so he can gain absolute power like Putin in Rusia or Erdogan in Turkey who also claim they are "democratic" leaders.And your evidence for this fascinating belief?

[Oliver2]

An editorial in The Bangkok Post or The Nation perhaps?
Once a politician is elected or even has the audacity to run for office who promises more equality and a fairer society, he/she is immediately the victim of astonishing calumnies and is hounded by hounded by the media. Poorer people tend not to be newspaper magnates after all. I should know; I'm British.

[frequent]

An editorial in The Bangkok Post or The Nation perhaps?
Once a politician is elected or even has the audacity to run for office who promises more equality and a fairer society, he/she is immediately the victim of astonishing calumnies and is hounded by hounded by the media. Poorer people tend not to be newspaper magnates after all. I should know; I'm British.Come, come Olly, such scepticism. The poster has clearly read a number of impartial sources in the original Thai before arriving at a conclusion that - entirely coincidentally - was the position of the more lunar members of the Thai elite

[billyhouston]

Anyone who believes that Thaksin was in politics to help the poor and reduce inequality is naive beyond belief. You have only to look into the dealings between ShinCorp and Temasek and the changes in the law, instigated by Thaksin as PM, which made these dealings possible, to see what he was really about. He didn't even have the decency to delay the transaction by so much as a day to make it less obvious. His only concern was increasing his personal wealth and that of his family and cronies. Some of my more cynical Shan friends have pointed out that his visits to certain Shan Temples in Chiang Mai conveniently coincided with those of Khun Sa.

[BOY69]

Anyone who believes that Thaksin was in politics to help the poor and reduce inequality is naive beyond belief. You have only to look into the dealings between ShinCorp and Temasek and the changes in the law, instigated by Thaksin as PM, which made these dealings possible, to see what he was really about. He didn't even have the decency to delay the transaction by so much as a day to make it less obvious. His only concern was increasing his personal wealth and that of his family and cronies. Some of my more cynical Shan friends have pointed out that his visits to certain Shan Temples in Chiang Mai conveniently coincided with those of Khun Sa.

+1

[Oliver2]

Have you considered asking the Thais themselves? And I don't mean the royalist elite but the the workers who make up sixty plus per cent of the population.. They made their feelings clear through the ballot-box, time and time again, only to be told that their votes aren't important enough to count. They never are.
You would hear about the work done in the villages, the support for farmers, the electricity installation, the improvement in health provision and much more. I don't claim that Thaksin was perfect- after all the US style "war on drugs" was a human rights disaster. Nevertheless, he was probably the first Thai leader to give a damn about the poor; and he paid the penalty.

[Smiles]

Oliver has a history of being on the side of many a villain who calls them selves as being "for the people".
A few of his favorites: Stalin, Trotsky, Lenin, Hugo Chavez (his net worth was 1 billion dollars on death), Chavez's clown Maduro (who's net worth is a small 2 million, but give him a chance, he's got a way to go), Robert Mugabe (net worth on death: $20 million), Castro (net worth on death, $900 million) Mao, Mabutu Secu today (net worth: 5 billion $'s. {https://www.infoplease.com/world/political-statistics/worlds-ten-most-corrupt-leaders1 } etc etc etc and on and on . . . they are just the best/worst. All of Africa is still plagued by these bastards, Oliver's 'The People' still Under The Thumb. The West ignores it for the most part. Millions died because of these disgraceful totalitarians so-called 'socialists'.

Thaksin Shinawatra did indeed help out the poor in two major attempts: 1. the government helped control the price of rice, and 2. the 30 baht medical scheme. The latter worked out well, but the rice price control was a disaster as the government chose the Head Men of villages and thus opened the spigots for greed and corruption. It remains still.

Then there's Thaksin's drug crackdown: 2000-3000 murdered by their own govenment.
"In February 2003, the Thai government, under then Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, launched a 'war on drugs', purportedly aimed at the suppression of drug trafficking and the prevention of drug use. In fact, a major outcome of this policy was arbitrary killings. In the first three months of the campaign there were some 3000+ extrajudicial killings. In 2007, an official investigation found that more than half of those killed had no connection whatsoever to drugs.1 Apart from the thousands who lost their lives, thousands more were forced into coercive "treatment" for drug addiction. https://www.hrw.org/news/2008/03/12/thailands-war-drugs."

Oliver loves them all.

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(Having said this, I'm no right-winger by any means. In Canada we have a quite popular social democrat party and I have voted for that party my whole voting life. (To no avail of course, the NDP have won many a Province over the years, but never the Federal government.)

[dinagam]

Have you considered asking the Thais themselves?.. Nevertheless, he was probably the first Thai leader to give a damn about the poor; and he paid the penalty.

Thaksin and his cronies were good at skimming the milk and are currently wallowing in fat and cream in Dubai and elsewhere.

[Khor tose]

Now I have seen it all. I am in agreement with Frequent and Oliver. A bunch of old gays still bemoaning the fact the Thaksin actually helped the poor and closed a lot of go-go bars in the process. I am glad many of you are not American as I am sure you would all be strong Trump supporters. All we now need to hear is some Old F... to give us a two hour nostalgic review of how wonderful it was before Thaksin.
Smiles your up. It a crying shame the bars now have to import boys. Weep-Weep

[frequent]

Now I have seen it all. I am in agreement with Frequent and Oliver. A bunch of old gays still bemoaning the fact the Thaksin actually helped the poor and closed a lot of go-go bars in the process. I am glad many of you are not American as I am sure you would all be strong Trump supporters. All we now need to hear is some Old F... to give us a two hour nostalgic review of how wonderful it was before Thaksin.
Smiles your up. It a crying shame the bars now have to import boys. Weep-WeepThaksin’s closing of (boy) gogo bars was aimed squarely at reminding Thais generally that his nemesis, Prem Tinseltoes, was a sodomite; Western sex tourists were merely collateral damage. As for whether he was a “good thing” or not - it rather depends on where the Thai you’re talking to comes from. Smiles’ boyfriend whom he quotes as an authority on Thai politics, comes from the South, as much in the pocket of the Democrats as Isaan and the North is Shinawatra territory. All those posters who have talked to their boyfriends about how they feel about Thaksin should remember the variety of opinions that that same boyfriend could get about, say, Trudeau, Trump, or Johnston if they visited Canada, the US or Britain. Assuming a universal Thai opinion is simply to believe that the elite press (and the English language media in Thailand is all elite) is representative of all Thais, that Fox News represents majority US opinion, or the Telegraph is the house organ of the British middle class

No political system starts off perfect. My hero is Walpole and look what a corrupt system Britain had when he was First Minister

[Smiles]

" ... Now I have seen it all ... "I doubt that, having attempted to wade through your post above. A large gollup of head-shaking going on there. Some measure of coherence seems to have been washed away with the Elliot Bay tide. For one who has seen everything ... let's just politely say, "it's wanting".


" ... Smiles’ boyfriend whom he quotes as an authority on Thai politics, comes from the South ... "He's from Surin, deep in the heart of Isaan and Thaksin's red shirts.
Mr Pot is indeed a Thaksin man (as are ~ as you say ~ like most Isaan folks) but have pretty well come to the conclusion that the man will ever be allowed back to Thailand. He takes advantage of the 30 Baht scheme, and whines about the moveable feast of the price of rice and other crops. He does in fact think that Thaksin is/was corrupt, as well as the good stuff.
He has little desire to move to Houston but would like to see snow.

[neddy3]

I suspect that you meant to say that Mr Pot thinks that Thaksin will NEVER be allowed to return to Thailand.

[frequent]

He has little desire to move to Houston but would like to see snow.I could probably organise a hurricane

[Oliver2]

I appreciate that it's "naive" to be concerned about what the Thais we meet think and what they want- at least if they are from poor farming communities and supported Thaksin- but I recall learning about what it was like for a poor student who'd spent his school career doing homework by candlelight first experienced using electricity in his home.. His village was one of those whose poverty put them at the front of the queue for Thaksin's programme . I doubt very much that he gave a damn what Thaksin's motives were; electricity (and a TV) improved the lives of his family beyond measure. I know that he travelled six hundred kilometers to vote for him.

I note the tendency of conservatives and royalists to accuse the working classes of selfishness, self-interest or even naivety, in voting for a PM who promises to attack the huge economic inequalities of Thai society. On the other hand, the rich who vote for lower taxes to finance their new Ferraris, or even a replacement mia noi, are sophisticated and patriotic.

British and American members may recognise this approach from the careers of Johnson and Trump. Tax breaks for the already wealthy are good for everyone.Self-interest is only reprehensible when it's the self-interest of the poor.

[billyhouston]

I somehow doubt that the 85 people killed at Tak Bai, the 2800 killed in the first three months of Thaksin's 'War on Drugs' and the people of the deep south, who suffered as a result of his policies, will derive much comfort from a few villages in Isan gaining electricity. Another example of Thaksin buying votes in the North East using taxpayers money.

[frequent]

Another example of Thaksin buying votes in the North East using taxpayers money.You mean like every other politician in the world? OMFG! Why didn't I realise that?!

[BOY69]

Taksin was a corrupt populist billionaire the dispose of him in military coup doesn't
make him martyr.
Everyone who thinks he was a democratic leader for the people is naive or ignorant.

[frequent]

Taksin was a corrupt populist billionaire the dispose of him in military coup doesn't make a saint. Every one who thinks he was a democratic leader for the people is naive or ignorant.Precisely the point the elite has been making for years. Have you considered changing your moniker from BOY69 to BUDDHA69 - Buddha = "the Enlightened One"

[BOY69]

The elite is absolutely correct by removing away Taksin from power.it's a pity they didn't succeed judge him in court and put him in jail .

[alipatt]

Let the USA lead by example

[frequent]

The elite is absolutely correct by removing away Taksin from power.it's a pity they didn't succeed judge him in court and put him in jail .Indeed, show trials never lead to having political prisoners

[Oliver2]

The Junta is certainly making-up for its previous failings- as defined by Boy69- by banning another politician (a millionaire one again!) who has won support outside the elite..... this time among the young. And of course, the Red Shirts who represent the best hope for the Thai population as a whole, are now in hiding. Unlike Thaksin ,they haven't got the money to emigrate.
I wonder how many Rolex watches the generals now have between them? I wonder what happened to the one who "borrowed" them from his friends as a contribution to the fight against "corruption", or social welfare as it's known here in the UK?
Of course I don't wonder. He got away with it, just as BMW -owners who mow down peasants (sic) for fun get away with it.

[latintopxxx]

...all politicians are venal...its a fact...only diff is some are more blatant in their theft...they are all corrupt...its a prerequisite...to be a politician one cannot be principled...so stop chatting about issues u all know nada about and go back to quibbling over the price of gogo rump.

[BOY69]

...all politicians are venal...its a fact...only diff is some are more blatant in their theft...they are all corrupt...its a prerequisite...to be a politician one cannot be principled...so stop chatting about issues u all know nada about and go back to quibbling over the price of gogo rump.

In one thing you are right the whole political system in Thailand is corrupt and it doesn't matter if the elected comes from the elite or not and Taksin is certainly no exception .

[frequent]

In one thing you are right the whole political system in Thailand is corrupt and it doesn't matter if the elected comes from the elite or not and Taksin is certainly no exception .The elite relies on military coups not elections

[BOY69]

The elite relies on military coups not elections

Maybe so but Taksin didn't want to make Thailand more democratic on the contrary he tried to weaken the monarchy and the military so he can gain absolute power , I do prefer the traditional authoritian Thai triangle army/ monarchy/parliament regime then absolute dictatorship disguised as democracy which Taksin wanted.

[Oliver2]

And, of course, it doesn't matter what the Thais want - which is why Thaksin was forced-out and the Red Shirts are in hiding. Let's face it, democracy is for us white folks.

[frequent]

Maybe so but Taksin didn't want to make Thailand more democratic on the contrary he tried to weaken the monarchy and the military so he can gain absolute power , I do prefer the traditional authoritian Thai triangle army/ monarchy/parliament regime then absolute dictatorship disguised as democracy which Taksin wanted.Apart from the elite propaganda in the Bangkok Post and The Nation what are the sources of your information?

[BOY69]

And, of course, it doesn't matter what the Thais want - which is why Thaksin was forced-out and the Red Shirts are in hiding. Let's face it, democracy is for us white folks.

Exactly . Thailand was never a real democracy and never will be.

[frequent]

Exactly . Thailand was never a real democracy and never will be.Is there any piece of elite propaganda you're not prepared to parrot? The elite believes that the peasantry is too stupid ever to sustain a democracy

[Oliver2]

Of course, we Marxists/Leninists/ Trotskyists/Socialists/ Chavistas/revolutionaries/terrorist and so on recognise the true "aristocrats" of Thailand; the hard-working farm workers of Isaan et al, earning a pittance for long hours under a hot sun to enable the generals and their cronies to buy even more Rolexes. Sadly, the "crats" part of "aristocrats" doesn't work for them. It's not just the poverty; the darker skins are a real set-back.

[BOY69]

Anyone who believes that Thaksin was in politics to help the poor and reduce inequality is naive beyond belief. You have only to look into the dealings between ShinCorp and Temasek and the changes in the law, instigated by Thaksin as PM, which made these dealings possible, to see what he was really about. He didn't even have the decency to delay the transaction by so much as a day to make it less obvious. His only concern was increasing his personal wealth and that of his family and cronies. Some of my more cynical Shan friends have pointed out that his visits to certain Shan Temples in Chiang Mai conveniently coincided with those of Khun Sa.

Excatly .his very few minor acts for the "poorer people" was just a haze to disguise his
actions to increasing his personal wealth and that of his family and cronies.

[Oliver2]

And it takes a white westerner to see what millions of Thais who live there and experience poverty on a daily basis fail to understand. The White Man's Burden is no longer to rule natives but to explain to them- very patiently- where they have gone wrong. How fortunate they are to have us to put them right. From thousands of miles away.

[frequent]

Excatly .his very few minor acts for the "poorer people" was just a haze to disguise his actions to increasing his personal wealth and that of his family and cronies.Still nothing about your sources?

[frequent]

For those who want to read more widely on Thai society and politics, there's none better IMHO than the New Mandala site, a project of the School of Asian Studies at the Australian National University