Jomtien being raided as I type

[Nirish guy]

So, just like in the old days of Sunee it seems the Police have now moved their attention to Jontiem.

Im sitting in Sun bar and a squad of about 15 police are walking up and down the Soi. The Thai guy I’m with said it’s ok Cambodians all go” and I replied “well at least they’re not P testing” - which almost before I’d finished speaking the police started shining their torches on what seemed to be just about every boy in the Soi and directing them to go to the outdoor foyer area of The Venue where they are lining them up for checking ( edit after my friend returned he told me not Pee testing but just checking documents and genuinely checking that boys haven’t been trafficked etc and advising them that if they have that they should speak up so they can help ( fair enough actually on the polices part for a change)

i also see the police gently but firmly escorting some boys out from the bars by the wrist so it appears perhaps not all that should of disappeared on time. (Edit - my friend tells me they did take several Cambodians and also several Thais who if I’m understanding him correctly had outstanding warrants issued against them.)

It’s 12.30am and needless to say the music has stopped in all bars and chairs are being put away and whilst I’m all for law and order (ish) you really have to wonder at the logic of such raids during the lowest of low season when Pattaya is already low enough on tourists ( who have been totally ignored by the police by the way just for reference).

I do realise that the police and state could care less about such matters and that’s fine of course but when every other gay area is seemingly dying on its arse you do wonder at the logic and timing.

Will be interesting to see does my friend come back too as his face went white once the torch was flashed in his direction ! Edit - he did come back, albeit looking slightly relieved I think that tey WEREN'T pee testing perhaps !)

Ahhh Thailand, you gotta love it for holidays....... or ....

[dab69]

Let them get it out of their systems for when I arrive.

"tourists (who have been totally ignored by the police by the way...) Did you want the police say "good morning" to you?

Do the abducted boys get meatloaf?

[goji]

checking documents and genuinely checking that boys haven’t been trafficked etc and advising them that if they have that they should speak up so they can help ( fair enough actually on the polices part for a change)
Whilst trafficking does occur in the world, I suspect almost all of the boys in Pattaya trafficked themselves there and have would have the nous to just leave if there was any coercion.

[latintopxxx]

hard to beieve that in this day and age and in a place like pattaya that sexual trafficking takes place

[arsenal]

I'm now hungry. Hungry for breakfast or dinner at Deli Diner, Thai boys, meatloaf and Cambodian boys but mainly for Pattaya. It seems Paradise upon Sea can still deliver a holiday to write home (here) about.

[frequent]

I do realise that the police and state could care less about such matters and that’s fine of course but when every other gay area is seemingly dying on its arse you do wonder at the logic and timing.Is this how the police work in Northern Ireland - they take into account extraneous matters such as the impact on (the general view) low tourist numbers at this time of year before deciding whether to enforce the law - in particular sex trafficking?

[latintopxxx]

if indeed impact upon tourism is a factor...and Im not saying it is but lets just entertain the notion...then low season would be ideal...wouldn't want to annoy the hordes of farangs queuing up for a ride on a mb...

[Nirish guy]

Is this how the police work in Northern Ireland - they take into account extraneous matters such as the impact on (the general view) low tourist numbers at this time of year before deciding whether to enforce the law?

Actually believe it or not YES it is ( and I’m not saying I agree with that fact but it IS it seems EXACTLY what happens in N.I it seems.

As a example only last week there was a contentious issue over an illegal / out of control bonfire that had been built ( to be lit later). The local council stated they were going to remove it and asked the police for back up / protection to assist with that ( as that wasn’t a popular move in the local neighbourhood) and to cut a long story short the police asked them not to enforce and to allow the bonfire to proceed as AFTER AN IMPACT ASSESSMENT OVERVIEW REPORT had been carried out it was deemed that such actions would be detrimental to the wider community and to the effect of PR of inbound tourism at this busy time of year etc.

So in answer to your question then yes, that IS exactly what happens before operations are carried out it seems.

* the above is just one random example btw, there are plenty of others with regards to paramilitary funerals and the police not overtly intervening ( when they SHOULD) and responding by written summons etc at a later date etc.

[frequent]

Actually believe it or not YES it is ( and I’m not saying I agree with that fact but it IS it seems EXACTLY what happens in N.I it seems.

As a example only last week there was a contentious issue over an illegal / out of control bonfire that had been built ( to be lit later). The local council stated they were going to remove it and asked the police for back up / protection to assist with that ( as that wasn’t a popular move in the local neighbourhood) and to cut a long story short the police asked them not to enforce and to allow the bonfire to proceed as AFTER AN IMPACT ASSESSMENT OVERVIEW REPORT had been carried out it was deemed that such actions would be detrimental to the wider community and to the effect of PR of inbound tourism at this busy time of year etc. I was thinking of more prosaic examples such as raiding brothels

[kittyboy]

Is this how the police work in Northern Ireland - they take into account extraneous matters such as the impact on (the general view) low tourist numbers at this time of year before deciding whether to enforce the law - in particular sex trafficking?

The BIB are seen by many locals and expats as slightly above a criminal mafia; extracting as much money from people and businesses as possible. They are not seen as a force for law and order and the rule of law.

Nirish guy's comments make sense if local law enforcement is a group trying to extract money from the citizens and visitors to Pattaya. They should try and NOT kill their source of income.

I assume the local police in Ireland are a somewhat professional group; not a criminal mafia.
Comparing Pattaya's BIB to those in Ireland is a false comparison...I hope I have enlightened you.

[latintopxxx]

then explain to simple me why thailand is so safe, I can wander all over bkk and pattaya sozzled out of my brain and not once have i been mugged,. If the cops were so useless would it not be a total wild west out there? They must be doing something right if the place is so safe.

[frequent]

then explain to simple me why thailand is so safe, I can wander all over bkk and pattaya sozzled out of my brain and not once have i been mugged,. If the cops were so useless would it not be a total wild west out there? They must be doing something right if the place is so safe.I think you'll find Kitty Litter doesn't understand rhetorical questions and believes you actually expect an answer

[christianpfc]

It’s 12.30am and needless to say the music has stopped in all bars and chairs are being put away and whilst I’m all for law and order (ish) you really have to wonder at the logic of such raids during the lowest of low season when Pattaya is already low enough on tourists ( who have been totally ignored by the police by the way just for reference).
I can't image a less intrusive time for a raid. For those who go to bed early (like me), that would be the perfect time to leave. Those who like to stay up until the sun rises have to find another place anyway. Low season, low impact. And they didn't bother tourists.


then explain to simple me why Thailand is so safe,...
Their cultural and religious background. The are Thai are non-violent people. Only when drunk or in extreme situations is violence on the agenda.

On the subject of police, in Germany it's similar. If you as a German park your car in the wrong spot you will feel the full force of the law. As an illegal immigrant trading drugs or raping girls, you will get a very lenient treatment. Can't even blame our police as they are underpaid and overworked, the politicians are to blame.

[Chuai-Duai]

Spoke to a Lao friend via the Internet last night. He was in his room at a time he would normally be in his bar in Boyztown. He said the police were checking all the Go Go Boys they could find for illegals. He said the current clamp down was the worst since he'd been in Pattaya which is about eight months.

[kittyboy]

I think you'll find Kitty Litter doesn't understand rhetorical questions and believes you actually expect an answer

Well Frequent Fuckwhit - Latin's rhetorical question makes the point that Thailand is safe...hmmm..well it probably is safe if you are a male tourist spending money.

Maybe the average Thai would agree that Thailand is safe maybe they would not agree. Thailand has high corruption, large wealth distribution inequities, one of the highest traffic fatality rates in the world, etc. The average Thai does not appear to be safe from corruption - theft from those in power, traffic accidents..etc.
An irony of this discussion is that the Jomtien complex stood empty for many years as the original developer half built the place then disappeared with huge sums of money (that is the story I have been told by several people). Thailand does not appear to be that safe for the average investor. Safe is a relative. Safe for who? or is it whom???

Gee Frequent Fuckwhit..I would think that you would have more nuance in your thinking..as you do sometimes seem to be a bit of a bright guy.

[kittyboy]

On the subject of police, in Germany it's similar. If you as a German park your car in the wrong spot you will feel the full force of the law. As an illegal immigrant trading drugs or raping girls, you will get a very lenient treatment. Can't even blame our police as they are underpaid and overworked, the politicians are to blame.

Christianpfc - your post sounds like some victim-hood post; Nationalist propaganda - illegal immigrants raping girls and selling drugs with impunity? The impunity resulting from their status as outsiders? That sounds like total crap.

[Dalewood]

I can't image a less intrusive time for a raid. For those who go to bed early (like me), that would be the perfect time to leave. Those who like to stay up until the sun rises have to find another place anyway. Low season, low impact. And they didn't bother tourists.


Their cultural and religious background. The are Thai are non-violent people. Only when drunk or in extreme situations is violence on the agenda.

On the subject of police, in Germany it's similar. If you as a German park your car in the wrong spot you will feel the full force of the law. As an illegal immigrant trading drugs or raping girls, you will get a very lenient treatment. Can't even blame our police as they are underpaid and overworked, the politicians are to blame.

Help me out, Christian; I have only been in Germany a few hours in Frankfurt and a few hours in Bremerhaven, a long time ago in both cases What happens to the illegal immigrant who misparks his car? What happens to a rapist who is a German citizen whose ancestors have been there since Frederick the Great?

[Oliver2]

Thai citizens who criticise the junta aren't safe....even those who escape to Laos. Their bodies tend to wind up in the Mekong.

[kittyboy]

Thai citizens who criticise the junta aren't safe....even those who escape to Laos. Their bodies tend to wind up in the Mekong.

Hmm..so being safe in Thailand for locals is partly about who you are, who you know, and how compliant you are with the ruling junta.

I guess Frequent Fuckwhit and Latin need to think a bit more about what it means to be safe in thailand.

[lukylok]

Christianpfc - your post sounds like some victim-hood post; Nationalist propaganda - illegal immigrants raping girls and selling drugs with impunity? The impunity resulting from their status as outsiders? That sounds like total crap.

Don't forget Christian showed sympathy with the 3rd Reich a few years ago

[latintopxxx]

poor misinformed christian, doesnt understand that all that raping he's complaining about is a cultural misunderstanding, he needs reeducation...as for corruption Brazil/south africa is just as corrupt but with far higher general crime rate, so again the bib must be doing something right

[gerefan2]

then explain to simple me why thailand is so safe, I can wander all over bkk and pattaya sozzled out of my brain and not once have i been mugged,. .

You don’t get mugged in that you do not get beaten up so that someone can access your wallet.

They are more subtle..

It’s done by short changing you, padding drink bills, scams, Farang pricing etc....

[gerefan2]

. If the cops were so useless would it not be a total wild west out there?.

Thailand roads, particularly in Pattaya are exactly like the Wild West. They are beyond hope. The police are useless.

[frequent]

Don't forget Christian showed sympathy with the 3rd Reich a few years agoIs that in the same category as actually being fucked by a Thai dictator?

[christianpfc]

You don’t get mugged in that you do not get beaten up so that someone can access your wallet.

They are more subtle..

It’s done by short changing you, padding drink bills, scams, Farang pricing etc....
I prefer that to to getting robbed.

And that's what I understand by safe: being able to walk anywhere, anytime, without the threat of being robbed.

Road safety, political freedom, safety for monetary investments is a different story.

[christianpfc]

What happens to the illegal immigrant who misparks his car? What happens to a rapist who is a German citizen whose ancestors have been there since Frederick the Great?
Illegal immigrants don't own cars (unless they stole them, but then they don't legally own the car).

German rapists? I haven't heard of that for a long time.
However: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_i n_Germany

I can fully understand the German and the Thai police. If I were an overworked and underpaid police officer, I would go for soft targets (like the bars in Jomtien, or parking in the wrong place in Germany), because I know where they are, they can't hide, and there is something tanglible (the business or the car), instead of chasing drug dealers who might shoot, stab, spit or bite.

[kittyboy]

Illegal immigrants don't own cars (unless they stole them, but then they don't legally own the car).

German rapists? I haven't heard of that for a long time.
However: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_i n_Germany

I can fully understand the German and the Thai police. If I were an overworked and underpaid police officer, I would go for soft targets (like the bars in Jomtien, or parking in the wrong place in Germany), because I know where they are, they can't hide, and there is something tanglible (the business or the car), instead of chasing drug dealers who might shoot, stab, spit or bite.

Christian - Read the link you provided. The police in Germany did NOT allow rapists and drug dealers to go free because they were immigrants.
The link YOU provided clearly indicates the police taking actions. You might argue that it was not enough action or too little action. Your original argument seemed to be that immigrants in Germany could get away with drug dealing and rape. Clearly that is not the case based on one case you provided as evidence.

And comparing the Thai police and German police and saying both are underpaid..is just silly. A quick google search of the salary of a German police office shows a salary of about 3400 Euros a month. Thai police earn about 200-300 a month. Try to make valid comparisons.

[latintopxxx]

valid comparison would include cost of living as well...say the cost of a pony ride...

[joe552]

christianPFC, just to add my voice - your post about "illegal immigrants" was highly offensive. And untrue.

[frequent]

christianPFC, just to add my voice - your post about "illegal immigrants" was highly offensive. And untrue.I must give it a "Like"

[frequent]

As to your speculation about frequent, you may very well be correct. Eons ago when he was boy genius he acted the part. He had real things to say and real points to make, annoying at times, but witty nevertheless. Frankly, his silliness has given me a little concern over his health. No, I am not being sarcastic. This is a far cry from the boy genius he almost seemed at one time.Here's a suggestion for you Khor tose, for next time you're with your fellow virtue signalers. Mention that you've been discussing the issue on a Forum where you're a long-term member, a Forum dedicated to Thai male whoredom. Don't forget to say it was raised by an indignant member who is planning to travel thousands of kilometres to exploit the Third World poor by having paid sex with men young enough to be his grandsons. Let us know their reaction

Just to be clear - I don't have a problem with exploiting the Third World poor by having paid sex with men young enough to be my grandsons or great grandsons. I have a problem with hypocrites

[StevieWonders]

Here's a suggestion for you Khor tose, for next time you're with your fellow virtue signalers. Mention that you've been discussing the issue on a Forum where you're a long-term member, a Forum dedicated to Thai male whoredom. Don't forget to say it was raised by an indignant member who is planning to travel thousands of kilometres to exploit the Third World poor by having paid sex with men young enough to be his grandsons. Let us know their reaction

Just to be clear - I don't have a problem with exploiting the Third World poor by having paid sex with men young enough to be my grandsons or great grandsons. I have a problem with hypocritesThe best thing you have ever written Frequent. I salute you.

[latintopxxx]

yes, I too rather liked it.

[arsenal]

"who is planning to travel thousands of kilometres to exploit the Third World poor by having paid sex with men young enough to be his" son?

I am.

[Manforallseasons]

"who is planning to travel thousands of kilometres to exploit the Third World poor by having paid sex with men young enough to be his" son?

I am.
I believe you meant grandson!

[arsenal]

No. I'm not as old as you.

[Manforallseasons]

No. I'm not as old as you.

Your under 35?

[frequent]

Your under 35?Or under several 35 year olds?

[Patanawet]

Your under 35?

His under 35 what?

[arsenal]

Someone's maths needs a refresher course.

[Old git]

In the days before bar workers had mobile phones there were some unpleasant mamasans in Thailand, who intimidated and presumed to 'own' their girls, although they could always walk out the door, in theory, at least. Those Thai girls who got lured to the Netherlands and put to work in the canal road shops really were trafficked in those days, and the way the Dutch authorities turned a blind eye to it was a disgrace.

But trafficked boys? I've never seen anything that looked remotely dodgy - the boys have always appeared to be pretty much in control of their own destiny. A few feeble, effeminate and insecure types used to let themselves get ordered around - today most in that category seem to go down Soi Katoey..

And scanning this thread I see there seems to have been a bit of a cat fight over older guys paying for sex with younger boys..

Well, I find it really bizarre, if not a bit sick in the head, that there are people in this world who are content to stand idle while poor people die of curable diseases or simple malnutrition, yet will actively interfere to prevent those people bettering themselves through the sale of sexual favours.

If you don't like prostitution, work to eradicate the poverty and create a welfare safety net - don't go wagging a moralistic finger..

[Oliver2]

I met P. at Lucky 7 in 2004. He now looks back on his three years in various bars in Pattaya with nostalgia. He chose that life after trying to live in miserable conditions while working long hours for a paltry wage. As a go go dancer he had friends with whom he'd made the decision to go to Pattaya while in Kamphaeng Phaet, a decent room (not shared), money to go to Hollywood after the bars closed and enough falangs (more Japanese, he says) to pay the rent. Sometimes things were hard but when they were, the three amigos helped each other out financially. I can vouch for this; I saw it happen.

As far as the offs were concerned, he says he had fun. His stories about his experiences are often amusing. I assume that being gay helped; his two best friends were also blessed in this respect..There were exceptions- which still upset him in retrospect- but overall, he says he was treated kindly. He loved the comradeship, the relative freedom and the chance to live an interesting life outside time spent at the bar.

As a nineteen year-old labourer in Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Pattaya- he tried all three- he had none of these things.

By the way, one of the three amigos is now making very good money as a mamasan in boy bar that caters for ladies. He's nearly forty....and still looks good.

[a447]

I met P. at Lucky 7 in 2004. He now looks back on his three years in various bars in Pattaya with nostalgia. He chose that life after trying to live in miserable conditions while working long hours for a paltry wage. As a go go dancer he had friends with whom he'd made the decision to go to Pattaya while in Kamphaeng Phaet, a decent room (not shared), money to go to Hollywood after the bars closed and enough falangs (more Japanese, he says) to pay the rent. Sometimes things were hard but when they were, the three amigos helped each other out financially.

This mirrors the background of my friend in Pattaya.

It was entirely his decision and he's done very well out of it. Certainly no regrets. And being Thai he can work freely and never has to worry about police raids.

[Oliver2]

a477's experience is probably replicated by those of many posters. It would be interesting to hear from them about how their boyfriends regard the choices they have made, or are making. Any regrets?or success stories?
Also interesting is why they made the decision to travel to Pattaya (or Bkk) in the first place. Friends already there? and how long they think their shelf life is. And what happened to the falang-less returnees?

[Moses]

Cleared... The ring with mud was moved to the Holding room

[Nirish guy]

It would be interesting to hear from them about how their boyfriends regard the choices they have made, or are making. Any regrets?

Yes, that would be an interesting topic and even more so if we knew the guys well who were relating the info and not just getting one night stand "bullshit" stories for what they think we want to hear.

I know my own long time friend there who used to work as a go go boy but is now a hairdresser talks of his time in the bar fondly and not in a embarrassed way that we might perhaps be inclined to think if that was part of our last employment record.

In fact just on my last trip he was quite happily chatting away about various things and came out several times like lines like " oh you member when I work bar, I see this or do that" etc but at no point was he ashamed or showed any signs of regretting his choices ( and nor should he in my opinion).

So yes would be interesting to hear about guys and as to whether they DO ever regret coming to Pattaya and "working" there. My own caveat to that would be the boys who went home ( or weren't lucky enough to make it home) as they got ill and either returned home "sick" or didn't make it that far - for them Pattaya leaving for Pattaya was I'm sure one of the worst decisions they ever made :-(

[a447]

a477's experience is probably replicated by those of many posters. It would be interesting to hear from them about how their boyfriends regard the choices they have made, or are making. Any regrets?or success stories?
Also interesting is why they made the decision to travel to Pattaya (or Bkk) in the first place. Friends already there? and how long they think their shelf life is. And what happened to the falang-less returnees?

Here is a post I made last year. It may answer some of your questions.

Last holiday I offered to buy my friend some new shoes to go with the outfit I had bought for him. He declined, telling me I had already spent too much money on him. I promised I would buy them for him on my next visit.

Two days ago we went looking in Central Festival after dinner. Like me, he's very fussy - he knows exactly what he wants - and we spent a lot of time going from shop to shop.

At the end of it all, he found three pairs he liked but none was exactly what he wanted. I told him to keep them in mind and that the next day we could go to Royal Garden, as there is one very nice shoe store there.

So yesterday afternoon after coffee, off we went. Unfortunately, that store has now closed, but he saw one pair in another shop which he liked. It was a Thai brand I'd never heard of.

"Ok. Now we have 4 pairs you can choose from. But there's no need to rush; we can look a bit more."

The only place we hadn't visited was the shoe section in the department store. He soon found a pair which I knew he really wanted. His eyes lit up. They were perfect.

"Ok. Let's buy these," I said.

He looked at the price and hesitated.

"Mmm...I think shoes in Royal Garden ok."

"Which ones do you really want?"

After some hesitation he said "I like these ones."

So I bought them.

Some Thai guys have a reputation for being money-grabbing, greedy buggers whose main aim is to extract as much as possible from the "rich" farang. This guy is living proof that such a reputation is definitely not always true. What makes his attitude more remarkable is the fact that he was brought up in abject poverty in a dysfunctional family. You'd think that could be a recipe for greed later in life.

His parents eked out a living growing rice. They lived in a hut with a thatched roof that leaked when it rained. His father was a soldier and was severely injured in a bomb blast. He spent months in hospital and unfortunately, became addicted to the medicine he was being prescribed.

After recovering, he no longer had access to the medicine so turned to methamphetamines. The result was catastrophic for the family as he became very violent and was unable to work. So the mother became the only breadwinner for her family of four children. The father died when my friend was nine years old.

He did not have a childhood; while his friends were out enjoying themselves he had to stay home and look after his siblings. There was no money for school - he only completed the first 3 years before having to go out an earn some money.

He was only nine when his father passed away. He found a job collecting tree bark up in the mountains. They worked him hard and paid him a pittance. So when he turned fifteen he left that job and started work at a cement factory. He had to carry 50 kg bags on his back. He's only a small guy and so found the work very demanding.

His next job was washing cars for 11 hours a day, again for very little money. He was exhausted.

His friend introduced him to a restaurant owner, who offered him a job washing dishes. He had to work thirteen hour shifts, often getting home in the early hours of the morning. He would then have to take care of his siblings.

When a friend told him about the money he was making in a gay gogo bar in Pattaya he decided he would give it a try.

He started at Happy Boys but was horrified when he saw the little "skirt" he was required to wear. And when a customer grabbed his cock he quickly knew this was not the job for him and decided to go back home. But his friend persuaded him to persevere - if you want to make really good money you have to try. So he stayed and eventually got used to it.

Now he works in a resort hotel and only comes to Pattaya when I'm in town. He'll go back after I leave.

When we got back to the hotel he looked up the Thai word for "generous." I explained to him that I didn't think I was being generous at all. If he weren't here I'd spend more than the cost of the shoes every single night in Pattaya, visiting bar after bar, tipping boy after boy, drinking Coke after Coke. Spending my holiday with him actually saves me money. Lots of money. All I am doing is spending some of that money on him instead.

I think he understood where I was coming from. But I'll happily accept the brownie points!

He has learnt well from the nightmare that he experienced growing up. He has become strong, independent and determined. He knows that there are no free meals in life - you have to work to get ahead. You cant just sit back and expect hand-outs.

Apart from a short period when he was swimming in the money he earned working at Kaos and blew it all partying with his friends and picking up the tab every night, he now saves every baht, much of which he sends home to mama each month. He hasn't gone out partying in all the years I've known him. Not being a drinker no doubt helps. He's been able to build mama a small house and buy himself a car.

I once joked that I thought I was in love with him. But it's not love I feel - it's total admiration and respect.

To my mind he's one in a million.

[Dimsumbear]

Gold diggers can be everywhere, in different forms and shapes etc. Of course in a gogo boy setting it is by default more prone to be one. There are exceptions, one in a million

[sglad]

In fact just on my last trip he was quite happily chatting away about various things and came out several times like lines like " oh you member when I work bar, I see this or do that" etc but at no point was he ashamed or showed any signs of regretting his choices ( and nor should he in my opinion.

I agree - he shouldn't be ashamed. He had to earn a living and chose a job he thought was best suited to his needs and circumstances at the time.

But I wonder if he would have been as forthright and casual about his past with a different audience. He knows you well; you are his former client and now friend. He knows you to be non-judgmental and is comfortable being honest with you. Moreover, you are a foreigner and therefore not a part of the Thai social heirarchy and value system. He knows you can't use his past against him.

With a Thai who is not his contemporary, your friend's attitude towards his past may well be different. He may not want to be ashamed of what he used to do for a living but a Thai in an adversarial position may use his past employment against him. To put him in his place, so to speak. They can be very mean and sarcastic if they choose to be.and there is a slew of pejoratives in the Thai language to label someone who is or was a sex worker. Past history as a sex worker may also be a barrier to professional and social mobility, depending on where you are headed. So my point is not to jump to broad conclusions about the acceptance and acceptability of sex work in Thai society (not saying that you are) based on an anecdotal experience.

[bazzabear]

May i say what a nice letter you have just written ,i also have known a guy in pattaya for nearly eleven years and much of what you say about this guy i can relate to. And must say you seem like a nice person yourself

[sglad]

He did not have a childhood.

Neither did Michael Jackson. Poor thing.

[sglad]

I met P. at Lucky 7 in 2004. He now looks back on his three years in various bars in Pattaya with nostalgia. He chose that life after trying to live in miserable conditions while working long hours for a paltry wage. As a go go dancer he had friends with whom he'd made the decision to go to Pattaya while in Kamphaeng Phaet, a decent room (not shared), money to go to Hollywood after the bars closed and enough falangs (more Japanese, he says) to pay the rent. Sometimes things were hard but when they were, the three amigos helped each other out financially. I can vouch for this; I saw it happen.

As far as the offs were concerned, he says he had fun. His stories about his experiences are often amusing. I assume that being gay helped; his two best friends were also blessed in this respect..There were exceptions- which still upset him in retrospect- but overall, he says he was treated kindly. He loved the comradeship, the relative freedom and the chance to live an interesting life outside time spent at the bar.

As a nineteen year-old labourer in Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Pattaya- he tried all three- he had none of these things.

By the way, one of the three amigos is now making very good money as a mamasan in boy bar that caters for ladies. He's nearly forty....and still looks good.

A lovely, heartwarming story, Oliver, one which I take at face value.

However, I do get the feeling that you are trying to paint a very rosy picture of the life of a sex worker. No drugs, no threat of disease, no emotional heartbreak, no excess in any form. Pattaya may be a whoradise but Disneyland it is not.

Secondly, it is not unusual for these boys to have sexual, if not, romantic relationships with one another. Three amigos, one of whom was and is still "looks good" as you say. I wonder...

[latintopxxx]

Despite what some of us pretend whoring is not regarded in a positive light in Thailand, at best its tolerated as an economic need. As has been pointed out ad nauseum on this and other boards a 100% straight soon realises that sucking cock and taking it up the rear is a lot less work and effort and much more lucrative to boot compared to the field/construction labouring options. The humiliation factor is not such a big step as they come from the bottom rung of society anyway and are used to being 4rd class.
a447 has had a great experience with one that obviously had inner strength and im sure there are more, but my guess would be that most squander their easy cash thinking it will never end, not realising that once age kicks in their appeal diminishes.
There was a short pony tailed performed at one of the gogo bars on soi twilight (first on the right) beautiful lithe lightly muscled body with a bubble butt, could maintain an erection with no help from rubber bands, would do the naked hula hoop routine and get fucked twice an evening on stage, and was always offed after the last show. Ten years later he looks like shit, lives on the street (at least loks and smells like he does) and used to hang around soi twilight begging.

[frequent]

A lovely, heartwarming story, Oliver, one which I take at face value.

However, I do get the feeling that you are trying to paint a very rosy picture of the life of a sex worker. No drugs, no threat of disease, no emotional heartbreak, no excess in any form. Pattaya may be a whoradise but Disneyland it is not.

Secondly, it is not unusual for these boys to have sexual, if not, romantic relationships with one another. Three amigos, one of whom was and is still "looks good" as you say. I wonder...
sglad’s 30+ years experience at the heart of Thai society is always worth heeding

[Oliver2]

Sglad's reservations are understandable. P is now nearly 36 and his mb life ended fourteen or so years ago; like many of us, he looks back at periods of his life nostalgically. The key - as sglad says at the end of his posting- is friendship. The three amigos, dancing together, sharing dinner, going to clubs, reliving often comical experiences with men like me, helping each other when offs were in short supply, having freedom-and being young- was a golden period, and, in retrospect, those are the memories that pertain a decade later. Good!

But sglad is right; there were periods when money was short. When I'd known him for a year or so and he was a regular off rather than a boyfriend, I remember financing his trip home at Songkran to see his parents because he didn't have the cash and his friends had already gone. He didn't ask, by the way, the decision was made when I suddenly realised how much he missed them and how seldom he was with them.

Then there was friend whom he lost to an alcohol-induced illness who was in his early twenties, one who retired with hiv ( I'm sure there were others) and some from Lucky 7 and Dreamboys who didn't make money and so returned to an uncertain future in Isaan.

I was amused by the reference to the amigos having sex with each other- as I know P. would be. When I first met him and he introduced me to one of them, I was convinced that they were more than" just good friends." I was wrong. He laughed when I intimated that possibility and explained how important it was for a gay Thai to have a life-time confidante. P claims- and others have said much the same to me- that he'd never want a long term sexual relationship with another Thai. He had been burned when he was eighteen and it made hims distrustful.

Not long ago, P and I were chatting about those days and I asked how many of his co-workers at the two bars he thought had settled-down down with a falang. He listed about ten. Of course, how "long-term" these relationships were neither he nor I know.

Finally, P isn't typical. He neither drinks, nor smokes, and is a regular at the DMC temple in Bangkok. He believes that the meditation techniques he has learnt have helped him through difficult periods, particularly a long illness ten years ago.

[BOY69]

Unfortunately many of the money boys when they are young , attractive and have lots of customers are leaving the good life and spending like there is no tomorrow without any thinking about their future once their golden era is finished they wake up to the brutal reality with no savings no occupation and no future.

[Nirish guy]

Unfortunately many of the money boys when they are young .... spending like there is no tomorrow .... they wake up...with no savings no occupation and no future.

Which is of course why they're Thai and generally living away there quite happily "in the moment" whereas we here in the West are busy putting money away into ISA's, Bond's and property and the like "for the future".

I suppose being somewhere in the middle of that curve is the answer, but kist finding that balance there is of course the key. I'm guessing though that if you asked a Thai would they like to swap to our way of living and thinking they would say "no thanks" - and the same for us in reverse.

Although somedays I DO perhaps question our whole "saving for a rainy day / old age" thing as just as an example of that I discovered only last week that a very rich and succesful customer of mine had been diagnosed with cancer at the end of May and didn't live to make it to the end of July even - leaving myself and several other business people that knew him collectively scratching our heads and wondering "what's the point" in all our long term planning stuff when tomorrow is of course promised to no one - so yeah, somewhere in the middle I guess - whereever that may be !?

[a447]

if you asked a Thai would they like to swap to our way of living and thinking they would say "no thanks

Actually, I think you might be correct here, Nirish.

There have been times when guys have told me how lucky I am to be so "rich" and how they'd love to be in my shoes, but I've always thought that if given the chance to swap lives, they'd run a mile.

As for them "spending like there is no tomorrow " let's not forget that these guys are young and suddenly find themselves with money to spend. Didn't we all look forward to going out and partying when we were young? I certainly did. And I still do.

[Newbie99]

How is Jomtien plaza after the raid?

[francois]

How is Jomtien plaza after the raid?

Business as normal; many farang and many lads.