Lack of western tourists

[aot871]

Every where i read now , forums and local thai media are saying western numbers are way down this year due to the high baht.,,One thing that could be done and would be done in any normal western country is to lower prices , but not in thailand , where they tend to increase prices to make up for the lack of visitors. Will they never learn ?

[Moses]

They had 35.4 mln of tourists in 2017, 38.3 mln of tourists in 2018, and expect to have 41 mln in 2019... why they should care about "western numbers"?

[AsDaRa]

So the currencies of non-Western countries have not been de-valued because of the strong baht?
What is wrong with the West that our once strong currencies de-value while the Japanese, Chinese, Indian, and the Arab currencies apparently do not devalue.
Or their numbers are also down?

[Moses]

Chinese: 4.8 mln 5 years ago and now 10+ mln

[AsDaRa]

Chinese: 4.8 mln 5 years ago and now 10+ mln

China I can understand. That country has each year huge economic growth. It is rapidly developing. People get richer every year while we in Western Europe have for about 20 years now the same standard of living. No growth whatsoever in that regard.

So a growth of China is to be expected. I guess their currency does then well against the baht.

But I am very curious about Japan and the Arab counties. What their numbers are. Certainly Japan is comparable to the West: slow growth, an aging population.

[Old git]

The numbers are not so relevant as the depth of the pockets of those who do arrive here - parts of Thailand are infested with Chinese tourists on package deals, spending virtually nothing.

The currency issue is the result of rumblings on the global stage that point to another economic downturn. When those rumblings happen, Japan is usually perceived to be a safe haven and so money piles into Yen. The Thai baht tends to track the Yen more closely than any other currency, so when the Yen is strong, the Baht tends to be strong also.

The strong Baht only really helps the richest in Thailand. Exports of manufactured goods always struggle to keep ahead of China and global rice prices tend to be quoted in US dollars. Meanwhile tourist spending in bars - effectively the social security system for Issan.. - takes a big knock when the Baht is high.

The only people who benefit are those with the cash to buy luxury foreign goods - unfortunately those people also tend to have influence in government.

There is a fundamental problem in the world that there is too much debt owed by too many to too few, and I have a strong suspicion that the next 'big thing' will be widespread inflation around the world, effectively burning these debts down. Given Japan's huge sovereign debt pile, that could easily lead to investors fleeing Japan, taking down the Yen, with the Baht following on behind..

[Moses]

But I am very curious about Japan and the Arab counties. What their numbers are. Certainly Japan is comparable to the West: slow growth, an aging population.

Only 2 countries have huge impact on tourism in World: China and India - each is around 1500 mln citizens. When outbound tourism increases only on 1% in China that can easy compensate 10% of decreasing of inflow tourism to Thailand from West.

[Old git]

Only 2 countries have huge impact on tourism in World: China and India - each is around 1500 mln citizens. When outbound tourism increases only on 1% in China that can easy compensate 10% of decreasing of inflow tourism to Thailand from West.

Have you seen Indian tourists in Thailand?

They wander down the walking streets in small groups looking for a girl they can share. As soon as they see a group coming, the girls all look away or at the ground - the smiles vanish in an instant - no-one wants to go with them..

[Moses]

Have you seen Indian tourists in Thailand?

They wander down the walking streets in small groups looking for a girl they can share. As soon as they see a group coming, the girls all look away or at the ground - the smiles vanish in an instant - no-one wants to go with them..

In Siamroads we saw many different tourists.

[AsDaRa]

Have you seen Indian tourists in Thailand?
.

In Pattaya yes. Everytime I am there I see them. There are even Indian expats with businesses. In Boyztown there is an Indian tailer for example.

[Marsilius]

The numbers are not so relevant as the depth of the pockets of those who do arrive here - parts of Thailand are infested with Chinese tourists on package deals, spending virtually nothing.

I had always understood the same thing - but a quick bit of internet research on Thai tourism (OK, it was the Wikipedia entry on Tourism in Thailand) reveals a somewhat different picture:

It is estimated that the average Chinese tourist remains in the country for one week and spends 30,000–40,000 baht (US$1,000–1,300) per person, per trip. The average Chinese tourist spends 6,400 baht (US$180) per day—more than the average visitor's 5,690 baht (US$160).

[AsDaRa]

I am in the 6000 baht per day category in Pattaya and in 8000 baht per day in Bangkok
EXCLUDING HOTEL AND AIRLINE TICKET. Just the money on food, massages, boys, bars, tips.

I wonder if hotel prizes are included in the above numbers.

[Old git]

In Pattaya yes. Everytime I am there I see them. There are even Indian expats with businesses. In Boyztown there is an Indian tailer for example.

There are Indian tailors everywhere, not to mention restaurants - but tourists are relatively new..

[Old git]

I had always understood the same thing - but a quick bit of internet research on Thai tourism (OK, it was the Wikipedia entry on Tourism in Thailand) reveals a somewhat different picture:

It is estimated that the average Chinese tourist remains in the country for one week and spends 30,000–40,000 baht (US$1,000–1,300) per person, per trip. The average Chinese tourist spends 6,400 baht (US$180) per day—more than the average visitor's 5,690 baht (US$160).

I've encountered the Chinese hordes, more so in Cambodia than Thailand mind, and the thing that marks them out is that they wander around all day - but simply not spending. They don't go in the restaurants, don't go in the bars, and when their coaches pick them up, they are mostly empty handed and have bought nothing.

So I suspect that's a case of 'Wrongipedia'

[Moses]

So I suspect that's a case of 'Wrongipedia'

No. They buy in malls. A LOT. Here in Moscow every mall is filled by them. Aeroflot and Chinese airlines now even allow 3 bags of luggage on one ticket on flights to China. And Blued app is filled by young Chinese tourists: 20-30 online in radius of 1 km from my apts.

[aot871]

Moses , I dont know when you were last in pattaya , but nearly all of the chinese tourist are on the so call zero spend tours , ie every thing is paid upfront before they leave home . they eat all their meals in the hotel , never visit bars , and only visit certain malls where tea money is paid

[Moses]

Moses , I dont know when you were last in pattaya , but nearly all of the chinese tourist are on the so call zero spend tours , ie every thing is paid upfront before they leave home . they eat all their meals in the hotel , never visit bars , and only visit certain malls where tea money is paid

Spring 2018.

"never visit bars"... bars aren't whole Thailand, nor Pattaya. We are speaking about Thailand's economy. Even when spending zero within country, they still spend a lot for hotels, buses, guides, and all other staff like excursions, shows, boats for to visit islands and so on: they are busy for one week and every minute is paid to people/companies who serve them. And we are speaking about 10 mln tourists. No one country brings as much money to Thailand economy from tourism as China does.

But I don't think what they spend zero. And now please count: if each Chinese tourist spends only 100 Bahts per tour then Thailand economy will get 1 bln Bahts. 143 bahts per day will bring 10 bln Bahts... if each tourist will spend only $14.3 per day, then Thai economy will get 1 billion US dollars. Presuming what they are on 7-day tour.

[goji]

They had 35.4 mln of tourists in 2017, 38.3 mln of tourists in 2018, and expect to have 41 mln in 2019... why they should care about "western numbers"?

EXACTLY. If I'm not mistaken that's comfortably over 10% growth in 2 years.
Also, whilst Pattaya might see a few cheapskate Chinese package tourists, Pattaya is just one part of Thailand. Chinese tourists in London have a reputation as big spenders in the shops. So it wouldn't surprise me if a few big spenders visit Bangkok and other places.

Thais won't give a damn about a few westerners getting priced out, as long as the total numbers keep going up. Quite correct too.
I try quite hard NOT to cultivate an attitude of "entitlement".

[frequent]

The numbers are not so relevant as the depth of the pockets of those who do arrive here - parts of Thailand are infested with Chinese tourists on package deals, spending virtually nothing.I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that Joe has not immediately identified this as a racist statement

[aot871]

Moses, i agree with what you are saying 100% but pattaya is a city based on 75% night life bringing in the money. Even in the pattaya mail the local city business people are complaining about the lost of tourists

[frequent]

And we are speaking about 10 mln tourists.An apposite phrase to describe Chinese tourism

[Oliver2]

And yet a massive new mall (Terminus 21) has just been opened with a hotel comprising hundreds of rooms We had a look at the hotel back in June; it was overwhelmingly Chinese. And the lobby area was busy.
The mall itself was busier in the evening than Central, Big C and Royal Garden. Again, the clientele was Chinese and Asian. I assume that the complaints to which aot871 was referring were from local businesses. The big developments must be taking custom away from smaller shops. I was struck by the lack of anything specifically Thai in the area near Terminus 21 and Dusit; we could have been in any city in Europe or the US.

[goji]

Even in the pattaya mail the local city business people are complaining about the lost of tourists

Such is life.
Tourism might grow by 5% a year for a very long time, yet the moment it drops back by a couple of percent, people complain.
Or demand might even be growing, but the reason they are losing business is another restaurant or hotel is doing a better job & pinching the customers. This happens all over the world. Business owners need to adapt to survive.

[aot871]

The chinese come in vast numbers look but dont spend

[arsenal]

Worse than simply not spending. Their anti-social behaviour drives actual spending customers away. However the good news is that less and less places want anything to do with them. A truly disgusting race.

Wanna call me racist? Google 'Chinese tourist behaviour' and see what comes up. The only nation on earth that needs to be told not to fight over seating on an aeroplane.

[Moses]

The chinese come in vast numbers look but dont spend

on one hand - complains what "Chinese ... don't spend", on another hand - complains what "Go-go and Fu*k shows are filled with Chinese women who attract most cute workers by huge spending"...

I think true is somewhere in the middle.

[arsenal]

It's simple Moses. Tour groups and non tour groups.

[Blueskytoday]

Gotta have a go go bar that only lets in gays...(maybe private club) keep the damn Chinese women OUT....who wants to be in
such an enviorment..cannot enjoy with screaming woman around..Sorry if anyone offended..just me.

[Moses]

Worse than simply not spending. Their anti-social behaviour drives actual spending customers away. However the good news is that less and less places want anything to do with them. A truly disgusting race.

Wanna call me racist? Google 'Chinese tourist behaviour' and see what comes up. The only nation on earth that needs to be told not to fight over seating on an aeroplane.

Look: you are in Asia complain what some Asian race's behavior not that what you adapted to see? Well, you are guest in their home. Chinese are from country where everyone from 1.35 bln citizens is competitor for each other. They are fighting for everything because of huge competition what follows them whole life. You are person from Western "cultural greenhouse". They are persons from country of wild competition: fight or lose. That's most significant difference btw your and their culture.

[Moses]

Gotta have a go go bar that only lets in gays...(maybe private club) keep the damn Chinese women OUT....who wants to be in
such an enviorment..cannot enjoy with screaming woman around..Sorry if anyone offended..just me.

Well, for woman in bar you should blame not woman, but bar's owner. Why he allows woman to enter? May be because they spend a lot (despite some tells "they don't spend")?

[latintopxxx]

I like china and the chinese...doesnt mean i like the politics or venal politicians. Hard working clever people. suyre some need to brush up on their manners, others would give lizzie a run for her money where class and manners and etiquette is concerned.

[arsenal]

Moses. Nothing in your reply explains the inability to form a queue. Their disgusting toilet behaviour. Their spitting in hospitals, shops, restaurants etc. Their disgusting habits at a buffet table. Their behaviour towards other people's property. Their rudeness when dealing with hotel staff. The tendency of many airports and hotels to semi segregate them. Their belief that any space is theirs to use. Their belief that they can go into a bar and sit there without buying a drink.

And please. Feel free to ask the Thais, the Vietnamese, the Cambodians, the Hong Kongese and the Japanese if they agree with me.

[Moses]

Moses. Nothing in your reply explains the inability to form a queue. Their disgusting toilet behaviour. Their spitting in hospitals, shops, restaurants etc. Their disgusting habits at a buffet table. Their behaviour towards other people's property. Their rudeness when dealing with hotel staff. The tendency of many airports and hotels to semi segregate them. Their belief that any space is theirs to use. Their belief that they can go into a bar and sit there without buying a drink.


I can confirm all these habits and add even more: loud speaking, swarming in groups in the center of walking paths, and I can continue...

You still don't get my point: it is disgusting only in your Westerner's eyes. Such behavior is normal in Chinese culture. And... let's see: you are trying to fit them in bracers of European culture, and you demand 1350 mln nation to follow to cultural habits of 500 mln Europeans, while they are in their Asia and you are in their home? Correct?

[arsenal]

Let's not lump the whole of Asia together. It's hardly culture. It's behaviour. And not just disgusting to westerners. Everyone else. So I'm not sure what your point is apart from the fact that I shouldn't complain about it. Is that right.

[a447]

And please. Feel free to ask the Thais, the Vietnamese, the Cambodians, the Hong Kongese and the Japanese if they agree with me.

The Japanese certainly do, from my experience. Only they are too polite to say anything. They just smile and put up with their rudeness.

[arsenal]

The Chinese government too.

https://www.thejournal.ie/chinese-tourists-behaviour-handbook-1132565-Oct2013/

[Manforallseasons]

Worse than simply not spending. Their anti-social behaviour drives actual spending customers away. However the good news is that less and less places want anything to do with them. A truly disgusting race.

Wanna call me racist? Google 'Chinese tourist behaviour' and see what comes up. The only nation on earth that needs to be told not to fight over seating on an aeroplane.

Chinese tourists in Chiangmai: https://youtu.be/wMVjskBB4w0

[Oliver2]

Ah yes, Chiangmai....buffets bring out the worst in people everywhere but our objection related more to behaviour in temples. We were enjoying the serenity of one in the Old City when a tour bus arrived and the guide charged about yelling at the top of his voice. The mood destroyed in one minute. We left.

However, today's Chinese tourists are probably enjoying their first trip abroad, their first experience of different cultures. A few years ago when Pattaya was full of Russian tourists , much the same was true. And in London, back in the 60s we'd sneer at the behaviour of American tourists, rich but totally unable to speak quietly as they sought to dominate any space they found themselves in. That was the impression, anyway.

But these nationalities share that characteristic; they were not, in their first visits, used to being in places with different cultures and social norms. They had to learn that people are different.

Of course, we British are not popular abroad due to our liking for booze and fighting. And in Pattaya, I wasn't impressed by my fellow countrymen's behaviour in Soi 6 when I passed through....yes, boozing and fighting . At 11.00am

Britons- at last those of us lucky enough to be Londoners- have the immense advantage of living in multicultural communities. We are used to other ethnic groups and so we tend to be more respectful. Both my working and social life have always been within multi- ethnic communities. And there can't be many of us who haven't enjoyed Thai food back home. And noticed the cute waiters....and even waitresses, in the case of the less fortunate.

This is despite the British Empire exporting greed, corruption, exploitation and violence across the globe. And Shakespeare, of course, who wrote about all these. attributes..

[arsenal]

We lived in London when I was a child. Some Indians moved next door and apart from one incident when the father parked his car in someone else's garage no problems took place.
"Ooh, they're cooking that foreign muck" wailed my mother. " I feel sick."
I personally remember the unusual smell but don't recall it ever repelling me. These days if she walks into someone's house and they're cooking curry it's "Ooh, curry, makes me feel hungry." How times and people change.

[Moses]

This is despite the British Empire exporting greed, corruption, exploitation and violence across the globe. And Shakespeare, of course, who wrote about all these. attributes..

For me the main "sin" of British Empire besides supporting of slavery is this anti-gay law what been installed by BE across Asian continent: in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and so on...

[Manforallseasons]

For me the main "sin" of British Empire besides supporting of slavery is this anti-gay law what been installed by BE across Asian continent: in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and so on...

Good thing there not Russian anti-gay laws!

[Moses]

Good thing there not Russian anti-gay laws!

Do you know what in Russian history was no anti-gay law at all until Stalin? So Russian anti-gay law started in the middle of 193X and finished in the begin of 199X... I think it is shortest anti-gay-law-history in Europe... Chaikovsky was known as gay, but nobody punished him for that. First gay cafe, restaurants, hotels and clubs (like English gentleman club) appears in Sankt-Petersburg in the middle of the first half of 19th century.

[Manforallseasons]

And what about Russia’s anti gay agenda today?

[Moses]

And what about Russia’s anti gay agenda today?

By law there are no anti-gay laws in Russia today. But exists law against "gay propaganda for minors". Any gay publications about gays must be labeled 16+ and must be distributed only to adults.

There are about 5-6 clubs in Moscow, 3 or 4 saunas, some bars and cafe (about 8-10 in total). In S-Petersburg 3-4 clubs and 2-3 saunas, maybe 5 or 6 bars and cafe.

[Manforallseasons]

Moses, you should speak to some Russians here that are gay and do not want to return to Russia because of the blatant homophobia,

[Moses]

Moses, you should speak to some Russians here that are gay and do not want to return to Russia because of the blatant homophobia,

You didn't ask about homophobia. We spoke about laws. Anti-gay laws doesn't exist here. But strong homophobia in society exists and propagated by all churches which exist here: Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Muslims and so on...

on other hand - clubs are working, gay parties run every weekend... like that https://imperiaparty.ru

I can show more sites (clubs, bars, saunas), but they are in Russian.

[frequent]

on other hand - clubs are working, gay parties run every weekend... like that https://imperiaparty.ru

I can show more sites (clubs, bars, saunas), but they are in Russian.When will you be starting up a Moscow Roads site so we can all join this wonderful society?

[Manforallseasons]

You didn't ask about homophobia. We spoke about laws. Anti-gay laws doesn't exist here. But strong homophobia in society exists and propagated by all churches which exist here: Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Muslims and so on....

You left out 1 more.......Putin!

[frequent]

You left out 1 more.......Putin!The Church of Putin - Cathedral Church Saint Vladimir's. There was a lovely anecdote I saw reported recently. The guide dog belonging to the former Labour minister David Blunkett was with him when he joined The Queen to greet Putin on a visit to Britain. The moment Putin entered the room the dog started howling. Plunkett apologised to The Queen who remarked something like "Dogs can be very perceptive"

https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1146846/Queen-Elizabeth-II-Vladimir-Putin-Royal-Family-Queen-of-England-UK-age-G20

[latintopxxx]

some people are so terribly biased and inflexible....isnt the Russian situation a bit like Pattaya/Thailand where prostitution is outlawed but in reality.....need I say more oh one eyed ones.
Same with Russia, its common knowledge that there is a high level of homophobia but there is a thriving gay scene which operates just out of sight of the ordinary citizens.
Frequents annoying tirades bring nothing to the discussion.

[Moses]

When will you be starting up a Moscow Roads site so we can all join this wonderful society?

Already started. For Chinese in Chinese.

[Marsilius]

Do you know what in Russian history was no anti-gay law at all until Stalin? So Russian anti-gay law started in the middle of 193X and finished in the begin of 199X... I think it is shortest anti-gay-law-history in Europe...

I guess, then, that the LGBT History in Russia entry in the English-language version of Wikipedia must be wrong when it claims that:

1. the earliest documented bans on homosexuality in Russia date to the mid-17th century, with the contemporary diplomat Grigory Kotoshikhin recording that Tsar Alexis executed gay men and burned lesbians
2. in 1716 Tsar Peter the Great forbade homosexual acts between soldiers
3. in 1832 further laws criminalised certain sexual acts between males

Perhaps someone in Russia should amend the Wikipedia entry?

[frequent]

I guess, then, that the LGBT History in Russia entry in the English-language version of Wikipedia must be wrong when it claims that:

1. the earliest documented bans on homosexuality in Russia date to the mid-17th century, with the contemporary diplomat Grigory Kotoshikhin recording that Tsar Alexis executed gay men and burned lesbians
2. in 1716 Tsar Peter the Great forbade homosexual acts between soldiers
3. in 1832 further laws criminalised certain sexual acts between males

Perhaps someone in Russia should amend the Wikipedia entry?Fake News, Marsilius, Fake News

[frequent]

Already started. For Chinese in Chinese.For Chinese potato queens?

[Moses]

For Chinese potato queens?

Why just not check yourself? Fire Blued or Hornet, choose "explore" and move cursor to Moscow, then filter "Asian only". 1/3 of profiles will be tourists, 2/3 students who study here.

[Dimsumbear]

Currency valuation is only one aspect. It's the standard of living or price discrepancy geographically. 60 mins in Japan could run you up to 6000B, but of cos everything is included professionally and strictly no tips are allowed (seriously)

[Dalewood]

The only nation on earth that needs to be told not to fight over seating on an aeroplane.

Arsenal, you haven't been the US lately, have you?

[Dimsumbear]

But I am very curious about Japan and the Arab counties. What their numbers are. Certainly Japan is comparable to the West: slow growth, an aging population.

Forex and devaluation are more apparent to those on a fixed income (i.e. pension). A drop in the home currency may mean 2 beers instead of 3. Nevertheless, a night in Pattaya is still a fraction of what the same would cost at home. Moreover, in an Arab country, one would be stoned to death for just being gay?

[Nirish guy]

a night in Pattaya is still a fraction of what the same would cost at home.

Depending on the night in question I would question that fact perhaps now - historically, yes of course absolutely, but with ( in my case) the Pound falling as it is ( and the Baht rising) and bars increasing their prices due to lower customer numbers ( how very Thai) a bottle of beer for instance in a typical bar there now costs very close ( or the same) to what I'm paying at home ( I checked that theory several times when last away) - and yes of course you can go to a cheaper beer bar somewhere etc - and yes there's no large taxi fares on the way to or from home etc. But in general the days of Thailand being "cheaper" or a LOT cheaper are long gone I fear ( for now I hope just at least).

[a447]

The cost of fun with a guy in Pattaya is definitely getting more expensive with the falling aussie dollar, and I now notice that the 20,000 baht I take out of the atm machine disappears very quickly compared to a few years ago.

But it doesn't really bother me because I don't spend a lot of money in Thailand and no matter what I pay for the company of a guy it is miniscule compared to what it costs me in Australia.

The cost would never deter me from visiting Thailand.

[Old git]

" a night in Pattaya is still a fraction of what the same would cost at home "

It's actually more expensive in Thailand now than England:

Average price of a pint of cheap lager in an English pub (outside London) is around £3.60 - 135 baht for 568mL or 238 baht for one litre

Average price for 320mL bottle of Chang in a Thai beer bar (outside Bangkok) is around 80 baht - or 250 baht for one litre

- so 5% more expensive in Thailand..

[latintopxxx]

old got u gotta throw in the cost of a mb, that will very quickly skew the equation n favour of pattaya

[Jellybean]

Some of the posts in this thread have been moved to the Everything Else forum under the title, The British Empire. If you wish to contribute to this new topic, please follow the link below:

https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?20991-The-British-Empire

[moistmango]

I can confirm all these habits and add even more: loud speaking, swarming in groups in the center of walking paths, and I can continue...

You still don't get my point: it is disgusting only in your Westerner's eyes. Such behavior is normal in Chinese culture. And... let's see: you are trying to fit them in bracers of European culture, and you demand 1350 mln nation to follow to cultural habits of 500 mln Europeans, while they are in their Asia and you are in their home? Correct?

No, it's not. Elsewhere here in Asia, the mobs of marauding Chinese tour groups are no more welcome. They refuse to queue, they only want to speak Mandarin, they're loud af, the list goes on. We loathe them just as much as Westerners. They're tolerated only by those in the tourism trade.

[GerBear1958]

6000 to 8000 baht per day? for food, massages, boys, bars, tips? I thought Thailand was supposed to be a bargain for Westerners. Of course - if AsDaRa is referring to multiple massages and boys per day - I can see how it would add up. Do others on this Forum expect to spend 6000 to 8000 per day there? Thanks.

[Nirish guy]

That amount sounds about right to me and of course can go up or down depending on your day and the company you have joining you at any particular time, whether that just be eating, drinking or whatever else - but that figure I find usually went up than down unfortunately of late, but that’s not to say you couldn’t have reduced it too if you decided to of course.

[a447]

Yep, 8,000 sounds right for me, too. That is just for food, drinks and fun. Accommodation and shopping are extra.

Compared to what I spend here in Australia, it's an absolute bargain!

[arsenal]

I generally get through about 60000 baht a week. But I get 120000 worth of fun and pleasure. As a447 says "an absolute bargain."

[Daveuk]

During a trip to Pattaya of short duration (around 14 days) my expenditure will average about 6000 per day due to trying to make each day count. It is boosted by the occasional night when I have two boys in my bed or when I have an additional one from a dating site during the day. On longer trips I tend to be more relaxed and have days without sex or perhaps content myself with a “boyfriend” for a few days. In either case like the two above say “it’s a bargain”.

[goji]

Expenditure depends heavily on lifestyle.

When I was doing a 1 month holiday, with a short stay in Bangkok, a period travelling aroud Asia (where boys might be more difficult to hire) and 2 weeks in Pattaya, the expenditure in Bangkok was about 8000 per day and in Pattaya it was about 5000 per day.

Now I do longer holidays of several months, so the expenditure figures are nearer to 6000 in Bangkok and 4~4500 in Pattaya. I would happily spend more.

Factors:
(i) For stays of several months, I might average 2 boys in 3 days. Obviously a short trip with >1 boy per day would be more expensive.
(ii) I've increased my use of dating apps, as with the ability to negotiate what he has to do up front, I'm getting good results. Also, the standard of gogo bars in Pattaya has declined.
(iii) Food costs are heavily variable according to personal preferences. Food can be had for 40 baht, 400 baht or more. Luckily, some of my favourite food in Bangkok is around 40~50 baht. However, I do spend quite a bit in coffee shops.

[frequentfliers]

6000 to 8000 baht per day? for food, massages, boys, bars, tips? I thought Thailand was supposed to be a bargain for Westerners. Of course - if AsDaRa is referring to multiple massages and boys per day - I can see how it would add up. Do others on this Forum expect to spend 6000 to 8000 per day there? Thanks.

6000 to 8000bht a day seems rather a lot..Must be good to have it.

[christianpfc]

I don't spend anywhere near 6 to 8 kTHB per day.

When I came for holiday I spent an average of 3 to 4 kTHB per night (I count it per night because the most expensive parts of the holiday - hotel and boys - take place at night). Details here:
https://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2014/09/cost-of-livingholiday-in-thailand.html

Now living in Bangkok, I spend between 30 and 40 kTHB per month. Details here:
https://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2017/03/my-expenses-nov-2016.html

[Nirish guy]

I don't spend anywhere near 6 to 8 kTHB per day.

But to be fair though Christian you dont spend anywhere near what ANYONE does - EVER ! :) .......and that's ok too as I know you wont be offended by that and will most likely take that more as a compliment ! :-)

[dinagam]

There's value in your frugal ways Christian, so don't stop writing about it.

[GWMinUS]

So do these amounts include the Hotel room??
For me that could be 2000 to 3000 B per night...

[Daveuk]

Whilst spending an above average daily amount, my hotel cost is rather modest - 1200 per night in Pattaya gives me what I require - large bed for me and my boyfriends/offs aircon, shower - that will do. A few years ago I stayed for extended periods - around 3 months, when I rented an apartment for about 12000 per month.

[a447]

Accommodation costs are usually the least of my expenses. I like to stay on hotels in the middle of the action which cater to gay clients.

I've stayed numerous times at the Elephant Plaza and Ambiance in Pattaya and at the Rose and Tarntawan (oops! Sorry!) in Bangkok. They charge less than 2000 baht per night.

They are far from luxurious - quite basic really- but the fit the bill. And most importantly, the guys don't find them intimidating. I wouldn't dream of taking a guy back to a luxury hotel.

[Nirish guy]

I wouldn't dream of taking a guy back to a luxury hotel.

And I'm sure with the long train of whorish looking guys that you'd be dragging back to be suitably debased the hotels are equally delighted about that fact ! :-) lol

[christianpfc]

...1200 per night in Pattaya gives me what I require - large bed for me and my boyfriends/offs aircon, shower - that will do.
I get the same for 600 THB in Pattaya and 400 to 500 in the provinces. In Bangkok I would have to spend 700 to 800 THB per night to find something to bring boys back (if I were alone, I would stay in cheaper places - in Taiwan even in dormitories because hotels there are too expensive by my standards).

In Pattaya, my highest single expense if tip for boy 1000, followed by hotel 600, followed by off fee 300 to 400 or Western food 300 to 400. I don't drink and I don't smoke and travel mainly on foot or by public transport.

[Daveuk]

Christian - a 600 baht room would be too down market And basic for me. 1200 baht gets me one of their nicer rooms at Zing in the Complex. They are used to gays there - a room service breakfast for myself and a boy whilst we were both in bed was delivered by a female sever without batting a eyelid.

[GWMinUS]

Christian must be Mr. Frugal or a German Monk???
;-)

[Daveuk]

I’m wondering which gay and gay friendly hotels are open in Pattaya Such as Ambience or Zing Resort ?

[Oliver2]

I was recently in communication with the Agate and I was led to believe that Pattaya hotels are closed until September. Of course, things may have changed.

[BOY69]

I’m wondering which gay and gay friendly hotels are open in Pattaya Such as Ambience or Zing Resort ?

Copa hotel opposite Ambiance .
East Suites opposite Zing.