Thais and Whiteness

[Manforallseasons]

One needs only to shop in any store in Thailand to see all these products that advertise they are whiteners such as lotions, skincare products etc. I know even on the hottest days many Thais wear jackets, long sleeve shirts and even carry umbrellas to shield them from the sun and it’s darkening effects. Thais have told me that dark skin Thais are deemed to be workers and the upper class are most likely lighter.
A fellow I know who is a black American comes to Thailand and says that many won’t go off with him because of his color. Is this racism or is it a matter of preference?

[Khor tose]

Both preference and racism. Wanting to look more Western is definitely preference, but the disdain for darker skin people, even when they are Thai, is pure Racism. Frequent--please captian obvious, try to understand that racism is a concept. All human beings belong to one race.

[frequent]

Both preference and racism. Wanting to look more Western is definitely preference, but the disdain for darker skin people, even when they are Thai, is pure Racism. Frequent--please captian obvious, try to understand that racism is a concept. All human beings belong to one race.I'm happy to call out "rice queens" as practising racists - that is, expressing a preference for or or against a race (as generally accepted)

http://www.ir.ufl.edu/OIRApps/ethnic_code_changes/info.html

[goji]

I've never been with a black guy, simply because the ones who are available are too big for my tastes. There are some amazing slim fit examples, but I've never seen one "available". This isn't racism.

I like Thais, as there are loads of slim fit ones meeting my standards.

I've only been with one Indian, as they are frequently way too hairy for my tastes. I don't think this is racism, as if they waxed, they would be the same race & meeting my standards.

IF anyone is rejecting a black guy for his skin colour and nothing else, that is personal preference and probably racist as well.

Now of course, not all of the boys on the apps will take a date with every white guy, so is your friend getting the same rejection rate as caucasians ?

[gerefan2]

What is it with Americans, they have all caught a serious dose of this racism nonsense. Why don’t you give it a rest for a change?

[Asia Traveler]

It is all about behavior not race. The problem is some behavior is attributed to certain races justified or not e.g motorcycle riders in Sunee Plaza. Cultural differences can greatly contribute to this issues as well. But bad behavior as in rude or obnoxious acts culturally rooted or not are unacceptable if we are to all get along in this world we share.

[frequent]

What is it with Americans, they have all caught a serious dose of this racism nonsense. Why don’t you give it a rest for a change?Virtue signalling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling). Are you forgetting the collective guilt us white liberals feel about the descendants of former slaves who were transported here as a consequence of being offered for sale by ... um, er, let me think now, oh yes - Arab slave traders in Africa. And so we're back to the beginning. Joe552 must be deliriously happy

[Diec]

I was mugged two times by blacks. Once was one person, the other was three of them, where I got punched. I no longer like black people.

[joe552]

Virtue signalling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling). Are you forgetting the collective guilt us white liberals feel about the descendants of former slaves who were transported here as a consequence of being offered for sale by ... um, er, let me think now, oh yes - Arab slave traders in Africa. And so we're back to the beginning. Joe552 must be deliriously happy

Thousands of Irish people were sent to the West Indies as slaves to work on sugar plantations. There were no Arabs involved.

[frequent]

Thousands of Irish people were sent to the West Indies as slaves to work on sugar plantations. There were no Arabs involved.Describing people who were "indentured servants" for a fixed period of time as "slaves" is stretching the meaning of "slavery" almost as far as describing prejudice against a group of people who are not a race as "racism"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_indentured_servants

[Manforallseasons]

Years back in N.Y.C. there was a peep show which was a place with booths and in the booths were video machines that you put money in and porn would play. Many hustles worked here, they would work the booths and solicit. I noticed a very attractive black guy soliciting and I asked him if he sucked cock he said yes, he began and was quite good at it, at some point I put my hand on his head and he responded “ let’s not make this a gay thing”.

[AsDaRa]

I've never been with a black guy, simply because the ones who are available are too big for my tastes. There are some amazing slim fit examples, but I've never seen one "available". This isn't racism.

I like Thais, as there are loads of slim fit ones meeting my standards.

I've only been with one Indian, as they are frequently way too hairy for my tastes. I don't think this is racism, as if they waxed, they would be the same race & meeting my standards.

IF anyone is rejecting a black guy for his skin colour and nothing else, that is personal preference and probably racist as well.

Now of course, not all of the boys on the apps will take a date with every white guy, so is your friend getting the same rejection rate as caucasians ?

A waxed Indian the same race as Thai? Indians are darker skinned Caucasians. They aren't Asians.

[colmx]

Describing people who were "indentured servants" for a fixed period of time as "slaves" is stretching the meaning of "slavery"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_indentured_servants
It's a bad idea to quote a Wikipedia page that completely invalidates your claim:

Those transported unwillingly were not indentures. They were political prisoners, vagrants, or people who had been defined as "undesirable" by the English state.[1] Penal transportation of Irish people was at its height during the 17th century, during the Cromwellian conquest and settlement of Ireland (1649-1653).[1] During this period, thousands of Irish people were sent to the Caribbean, or "Barbadosed", against their will.

Still I suppose they were luckier than the million Irish people that were starved to death during the 1845-1850 Irish Genocide, for the people that were brought up under a propaganda regime, that's the Genocide that the British have so conveniently re-papered as the "potato famine"

[frequent]

Still I suppose they were luckier than the million Irish people that were starved to death during the 1845-1850 Irish Genocide, for the people that were brought up under a propaganda regime, that's the Genocide that the British have so conveniently re-papered as the "potato famine"Ah, I see the Grievance Industry aka. the Chip On The Shoulder is in full swing. Have a thought then for the poor Anglo-Saxons, still be oppressed by their Norman conquerors a thousand years later - https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/07/anglo-saxons-deserve-reparations-for-the-norman-conquest/

[frequent]

"completely invalidates your claim"So what are you asserting colmx? That people who end up in prison as the result of a crime are somehow "slaves"

[latintopxxx]

there were some great unintended consequences to the great famine and vicky gov indifference...it forced them to leave that dreary soggy wet rock and spread their terribly good looking genes across the globe...

[goji]

A waxed Indian the same race as Thai?
NO. A waxed Indian is the same race as an unwaxed Indian. One is typically too hairy for my tastes, the other could be OK.

[christianpfc]

I've never been with a black guy, simply because the ones who are available are too big for my tastes.
Too big what? I have never been with a black guy. There is little choice in Thailand, and those I met had other issues (money problems).

[bkkguy]

Is this racism or is it a matter of preference?

don't you just love the smell of fresh trolls in the morning

9012

[joe552]

colmx, thanks for your reply. frequent again shows his ignorance and arrogance.

[frequent]

colmx, thanks for your reply. frequent again shows his ignorance and arrogance.All these minorities you believe us sodomites should stand with in solidarity - I assume they include the minority to which J Epstein Esq belongs? If not, why not? How about the neo-Nazis? They're a minority

[Oliver2]

We have, for centuries, run with the foxes and been hunted by the hounds and so sympathy for the underdog is in our DNA. Well, for most of us. We don't have the equivalent of "log-cabin Republicans" here in the UK, thank God. The small number of Conservatives who are out and proud tend to be relatively liberal, or socialist revolutionaries, as they'd be called in the US.

[extronaut]

A fellow I know who is a black American comes to Thailand and says that many won’t go off with him because of his color. Is this racism or is it a matter of preference?

It's only racist if your race is: black.

[frequent]

We have, for centuries, run with the foxes and been hunted by the hounds and so sympathy for the underdog is in our DNA. Well, for most of us. We don't have the equivalent of "log-cabin Republicans" here in the UK, thank God. The small number of Conservatives who are out and proud tend to be relatively liberal, or socialist revolutionaries, as they'd be called in the US.Joe’s assertion went further - because we have been oppressed and persecuted we must stand in solidarity with other oppressed and persecuted minorities without making any moral judgements about them. That is more than nonsense, it is pernicious nonsense

[frequent]

It's only racist if your race is: black.
Yes that’s a well-known fact - only white people are racists

[joe552]

Joe’s assertion went further - because we have been oppressed and persecuted we must stand in solidarity with other oppressed and persecuted minorities without making any moral judgements about them. That is more than nonsense, it is pernicious nonsense

You know very well that is not what I meant. You're simply stirring the shit. Again.

[frequent]

You know very well that is not what I meant. You're simply stirring the shit. Again.”Say what you mean and mean what you say” is a worthwhile maxim. You’ve done neither - or do we put this in the same basket as an airport at Sisaket?

[latintopxxx]

Isnt the whole world racist/biased...be it colour, class, religion, regionalism....its human nature, the best we can do is moderate the extremes on both sides and by this I mean let the KKK know its simply not cool...and let the other extreme know that sexual attraction whilst can be learnt there are limits as in there is no way Ill ever be attracted to a papua new guinean no matter what u do....so dont call be racist because my dick even with kamagra will not respond to that particular look.

[frequent]

Isnt the whole world racist/biased...be it colour, class, religion, regionalism....its human nature, the best we can do is moderate the extremes on both sides and by this I mean let the KKK know its simply not cool...and let the other extreme know that sexual attraction whilst can be learnt there are limits as in there is no way Ill ever be attracted to a papua new guinean no matter what u do....so dont call be racist because my dick even with kamagra will not respond to that particular look.Have you forgotten the importance of virtue signalling Latin? If you have Twitter I can recommend Titania McGrath as an antidote

[arsenal]

I've never had sex with a black person and I never will because I don't find them sexually attractive.

That puts them in the same category as women, fat people, muscle types, anyone over 30, hairy blokes, bears, bald people, beardies and probably a few other groups I can't think of.

[dinagam]

there is no way Ill ever be attracted to a papua new guinean no matter what u do....so dont call be racist because my dick even with kamagra will not respond to that particular look.

Once the body hair is completely removed and the skin is made lighter, you're likely to have a permanent priapism when face to face with their penis sheaths.

[kjun12]

In the US a higher percentage of people in prison are black. Also, a higher percentage of blacks are criminals. This is fact. Not racism.

[frequent]

In the US a higher percentage of people in prison are black. Also, a higher percentage of blacks are criminals. This is fact. Not racism.You've omitted to say what is their most common crime

[frequent]

As gay men, surely we should be standing with minorities, not name calling?

Joe’s assertion went further - because we have been oppressed and persecuted we must stand in solidarity with other oppressed and persecuted minorities without making any moral judgments about them.

You know very well that is not what I meant.
Draw your own conclusions. Did Joe clearly state what he meant, or did he make an unqualified statement?

[extronaut]

Yes that’s a well-known fact - only white people are racists

ELI5 how you get to that conclusion. I don't see the corollary.

My point is that saying "I don't like people with black skin" is kind of unfair on people who's race and genetics disposes them to have black skin. Effectively, it is a prejudice against people of that race. Therefore, quite literally, it is racism.

As for me, would I fuck a black guy? If I found him good looking, absolutely. I'm not going to let the colour of his skin get in the way, on principle.

People who refuse to fuck black people because their skin marks them out is being lower class, are being fucked up in a dozen different ways, including racism.

[Manforallseasons]

I’ve seen Asians on the apps stating only Asians need reply.....does that make then racists?

[latintopxxx]

first time i had sex with an african was in brazil, short bubble butted guy with skin like silk...was magic. My aversion to africans is no longer what it used to be and I find myself aroused by the west african look....but definitely not the southern african look.
I amsterdam there is a sex bar called Club Church, occasionally they have masked parties where you are encouraged to wear a full face mask, not a little zorro one where most of the face can be seen, lots of guys actually where full hoods, almost like a sock pulled over the head, lights are also dimmed, really blurs the age bias, as one has to focus on body only...amazing the types of people I end up having fun with that I normally wouldnt even take a 2nd look at except maybe in horror.

[bkkguy]

In the US a higher percentage of people in prison are black. Also, a higher percentage of blacks are criminals. This is fact. Not racism.

I agree your first sentence is a fact, but to understand this fact you also need to understand the inherent biases in police, court and parole procedures as well as the inherent racism of some police, court and parole officials - two very different issues but problematic given the growth of AI system that have been shown to include the biases of current systems and the increasing number of cases of officials acting on their own racist attitudes and trying to justify it using statistics like this

it is because of these issues that I don't necessarily agree that your second sentence is in fact a fact!

[gerefan2]

In the US a higher percentage of people in prison are black. Also, a higher percentage of blacks are criminals. This is fact. Not racism.

Same same UK

[Oliver2]

And we share similar attitudes in the police, the civil service and among politicians. In my professional life, I worked with Brixton youths who had been picked-up by racist policeman- I could give you the names of those policemen right now and explain the way the "suspected person" laws were used to antagonise them- and I then experienced the failure of the juvenile courts and the politicians to understand what was going on. "We have the finest policemen in the world...." and so on. Not if you are fifteen and black.
Of course, it wasn't long before the riots started. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

[Khor tose]

I agree your first sentence is a fact, but to understand this fact you also need to understand the inherent biases in police, court and parole procedures as well as the inherent racism of some police, court and parole officials - two very different issues but problematic given the growth of AI system that have been shown to include the biases of current systems and the increasing number of cases of officials acting on their own racist attitudes and trying to justify it using statistics like this

it is because of these issues that I don't necessarily agree that your second sentence is in fact a fact!

To make it simple. A statement that is based on a fact, taken out of content, may only be at best a half truth. Not mentioning things like the disparity in economic opportunity, and at least ten other things really does make Khun's statement racist. IF NOT IN FACT, IN APPEARANCE.

[frequent]

Gosh things don’t have to BE, they just may APPEAR TO BE. It’s the favourite excuse of gay bashers down the ages - “He looked gay”

[latintopxxx]

there u go again....frequent GO take your meds...

[frequent]

there u go again....frequent GO take your meds...I guess it must be my turn this week. For the true masochist even a brief glance at latintopxxxs's posting history will see it's replete with posts slagging off one or other member for posting something they've written. I'm surprised, given latin's past as a self-confessed serial liar about his sexual exploits he hasn't joined Joe in publishing via Kindle

[latintopxxx]

liar...noooo....embellisher...bit like that kinsey sexuality scale...we all a bit gay...

[latintopxxx]

...and frequent...u really do need tokeep on the meds...withdrawal symptoms are a bitch

[bkkguy]

A statement that is based on a fact, taken out of content, may only be at best a half truth. Not mentioning things like the disparity in economic opportunity, and at least ten other things really does make Khun's statement racist. IF NOT IN FACT, IN APPEARANCE.

I didn't say either statement was racist, I said I agreed that the first statement was a fact but didn't think the second statement was a fact

the first statement is a simple statistical calculation, you don't need a context and you don't need to consider any of the issues I raised to accept this as a fact - though it is helpful to consider such issues when trying to have a meaningful conversation about this fact

if you want to contest the truth of the first statement again you don't need a context or any of the issues I raised you just need to be able to dispute the validity of the original data or the calculation method and I am not aware that these are hotly contested

the second statement is different, is not a fact, it is an opinion based on some potentially simplistic or incorrect assumptions - these assumptions and the resulting opinion may be based on lack of knowledge or experience, or may be based on personal biases which may or may not be racist

if you want to contest the truth of the second statement you need to be disputing the validity of the underlying assumptions, but considering if it appears to be racist is probably the last thing I would consider

[Khor tose]

No, Tons of data around this 50+ year fact of Khuns. To cherry pick this alone makes it racist. If you doubt me check every white supremacist site and you will find similar statements. This "fact" is clearly too simplistic to require deep examination, as it also implies a direct connection to crime and dark skin. No need for convoluted thinking, it is to simple to stand alone. Most people would want to know how black skin can cause you to commit a crime and find out the skin color has nothing to do with the high number of blacks committing crimes. Only the pathetic few who need some excuse to feel better then others would take this statement alone. After all this time, we all should all know skin color has little to do with anything, but peoples prejudices.

[frequent]

No, Tons of data around this 50+ year fact of Khuns. To cherry pick this alone makes it racist. If you doubt me check every white supremacist site and you will find similar statements. This "fact" is clearly too simplistic to require deep examination, as it also implies a direct connection to crime and dark skin. No need for convoluted thinking, it is to simple to stand alone. Most people would want to know how black skin can cause you to commit a crime and find out the skin color has nothing to do with the high number of blacks committing crimes. Only the pathetic few who need some excuse to feel better then others would take this statement alone. After all this time, we all should all know skin color has little to do with anything, but peoples prejudices.I wonder how many angels are dancing on the head of a pin this week

[kittyboy]

I wonder how many angels are dancing on the head of a pin this week

Hmm..the angels dancing on the head of a pin comment is usually trotted out when someone is arguing that the topic is trivial and not worth discussing.
I don't know frequent. You seem to be sometimes a bright guy..if that is not your meaning then you should try and be a bit more clear in your postings.

So you think that the topic of racism, ethnic stereotyping, exclusion from public life, and discrimination based on some trait or characteristic is a trivial topic.

Huh..well I disagree, with nationalism rising in the USA and western Europe and the attitudes of exclusion and marginalization of people who are seen as outsiders or not worthy increasing - I think this is a very important topic.

[Smiles]

Hmm..the angels dancing on the head of a pin comment is usually trotted out when someone is arguing that the topic is trivial and not worth discussing.Funny, all these years I've thought - I use it all the time of course -- that the needle metaphor was all about the size of angels, their position's atop, and over-arching greed.

[kittyboy]

Funny, all these years I've thought - I use it all the time of course -- that the needle metaphor was all about the size of angels, their position's atop, and over-arching greed.

Hey - I am always willing to say I may have gotten it wrong - But that is my understanding of the angels on the head of a pin comment.
Frequent seemed to be using it in a different way..maybe he can clarify what he meant. Or maybe he doesn't know himself.