EX pats and the exchange rates

[aot871]

How are expats coping with the low exchange rates ?

[gerefan2]

It costs more...every day...if you earn Sterling!

[AsDaRa]

I am not an expat but my yearly short vacations in Thailand become more expensive. I sure notice it. And I am very angry about it. Who or what is to blame?

[Jellybean]

I am not an expat but my yearly short vacations in Thailand become more expensive. I sure notice it. And I am very angry about it. Who or what is to blame?

In the United Kingdom, AsDaRa, many of us blame the nincompoop David Cameron for his decision to hold a referendum on the European Union, and all that followed from that decision, for the depressingly poor GBP/ Thai Baht exchange rates.

Hitherto I used to spend six months of the year living in Thailand, but will probably reduce my time spent there to three months. But, as a British citizen, thank goodness I do not live there permanently; otherwise I might have been so down on my uppers that I would have been forced to give up . . . sorry, forgive me, but it pains me to say it . . . shopping at Tesco Lotus! ;)

[goji]

I am not an expat but my yearly short vacations in Thailand become more expensive. I sure notice it. And I am very angry about it. Who or what is to blame?

In the case of the UK, the people to blame are the population of the UK, most of the governments in the last 75 years and of course, above all ourselves, including you & me.

Voting for Brexit was merely a catalyst for the exchange rate. Much more significant is the underlying economics, where our economy is not competitive, so we import much more than we export and the trade deficits are financed by ever more debt. In the past, there have been lunatic government policies. For example, whilst Germany has Mecedes, BMW and Audi, all with huge exporting businesses, in the UK, Jaguar, Rover and Triumph were all nationalised and mismanaged by politicians who know naff all about running a competitive business. After many years in the private sector, Jaguar has finally started to recover.

If a country runs persistent large balance of trade deficits, then we can expect the exchange rate to eventually adjust in response to this. This is what has happened.


Blaming someone else for your & my misfortune is also completely pointless.

For a start, we have no divine right to live in a country where the GDP is a multiple of that in Thailand & enjoy the resulting difference in entertainment costs when we go to Thailand (e.g. laow labour costs & cheap hookers). Rather, we have to EARN that right by superior economic and financial performance. The world does not owe us a living.

In reality, the changing exchange rates are of course a little painful.
However, all we can do is take little sensible steps, like maximise earnings, NOT waste it by putting a flash new car on the drive, rent the spare room out to a cute lodger, save like hell and invest what is spare in Asian funds, so we are not screwed the next time the pound falls.

That is likely to be more productive than looking for someone to blame.

[Note: If Jeremy Corbyn gets elected and as seems quite likely, screws the UK economy to the extent that foreign exchange controls eventually have to be re-introduced, I shall of course demonstrate inconsistency by blaming the government. I will, however have spent some of the preceding 5 years planning for that, knowing that it is a risk.
Incidentally, up until Mrs Thatcher abolished them in about 1979, there were controls on what money we could take out of the country. I'm not quite sure what the limit was in the late 70s, but back in the late 1960s it was apparently £50. Which is equivalent to £850 in today's money. Having to get by on that would spoil a holiday. And, if anyone DOES have a resource which explains the limits in the 1970s, please post a link]

[gerefan2]

Most U.K. voters are so thick they shouldn't be allowed to vote without having passed some sort of examination

[aot871]

I brought my flight ticket last month for my Oct holiday , and would loose about £ 500 if i was to cancel as it is non refundable

[Jellybean]

. . . Voting for Brexit was merely a catalyst for the exchange rate. Much more significant is the underlying economics, where our economy is not competitive . . .

An interesting and well thought out post, if I may say so, goji. I agree that the GBP/ Thai Baht exchange rate was falling long before Brexit. I recall the exchange rate being around the 70 -74 Baht to the GBP mark when I first started holidaying in Thailand in 2003.

And, as regards the UK travel allowance, I’m pretty sure that it remained at £50 from 1966 to 1979. There follows an extract from Hansard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hansard) from 1969:


£50 TRAVEL ALLOWANCE
HC Deb 27 November 1969 vol 792 cc657-701 657
§ 5.13 p.m.
§ Mr. Reginald Maudling (Barnet)
I beg to move, That this House regrets the refusal of Her Majesty's Government to increase the £50 travel allowance. It has taken some time and a considerable journey to reach this subject. I am afraid that our time now available for debate will be very much truncated. Therefore, I will try to compress my remarks and make them as brief and concise as I can, since I know many hon. Members on both sides wish to take part . . .

From a brief Internet search I could not find anything definitive, but the following extract appears to indicate that the £50 allowance remained unchanged until it was abolished in 1979.


Exchange controls had been the cross that British individuals and businesses had had to bear through sterling’s long period of vulnerability. During the worst of the country’s ‘sick man of Europe’ period in the 1960s, before and after the 1967 devaluation, a £50 ‘foreign travel allowance; operated, this being the limit on the amount of money British travellers could take abroad.

http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002127.html

[Jellybean]

Most U.K. voters are so thick they shouldn't be allowed to vote without having passed some sort of examination

When you say, 'some sort of examination', are you alluding to a rectal examination by any chance, gerefan2? If so, well just come right out and say so. As a veteran member you know we don't stand on ceremony around these parts, just spit it out. ;)

[Nirish guy]

As one of the younger members (* cough) I was genuinely shocked to read about that £50 travel allowance as I'd never heard of it before and assumed it was a joke until a quick goggle confirmed otherwise ! Absolutely shocking and amazing that they ever were able to get away with imposing such a thing - I was going to say thank god times have changed but if anyone was watching the recent TV program "Years and Years: it would make you wonder HAVE things changed just as much as we might like to think and will history repeat itself in some regards !

Re the drop in the £ I know I absolutely and blatantly reduced the length of time for my next Asia in a few weeks mainly ( but not solely) because of that drop - and not so much that I cant afford it but more as I'm damned if I'm going to shell out maybe 20% more than I already did over what was always an already expensive 4 or 5 week holiday and on what was already a ridiculous sum for all I ever do there ( i.e eat, drink and shag basically) - especially as the place as we all know is at it's lowest of low just now etc.

So I've now reduced my trip to Thailand and Bali down to about 3 weeks now and that will enable me to scratch my Asian itch just fine for now ( I really should get some cream for that perhaps !) and the money I wont blow in Asia I'll then piss up the wall somewhere else instead, adding it into the pot for lots of shorter 10 day, one week or long weekender trips around in Europe more ( which I have been doing all of this and last year several times and actually much to my own surprise actually quite enjoying the difference for a bit of a change) - albeit Asia still of course wins hands down for cute guys and on tap sex - but for me anyway just not at ANY price anymore as perhaps it used to for me in the past - and when I think back to how much I did blow then ( no pun intended) thank GOD the pound wasn't where it was now !!

[frequent]

The world does not owe us a living.I assumed I was reading an old script for Yes, Prime Minister:

Jim Hacker:
So let us be abundantly clear about this. We cannot go on paying ourselves more than we earn. The rest of the world does not owe us a living. We must be prepared to make sacrifices and... Who wrote this rubbish?

Bernard Woolley:
You did, Prime Minister. It's one of your old speeches.

[frequent]

Most U.K. voters are so thick they shouldn't be allowed to vote without having passed some sort of examinationWe have only to read some of your posts to realize the truth of that particular statement

[frequent]

Perhaps for some international balance we’ll get lonelywombat wittering on about the AUD/THB exchange rate. Any input from Bavaria-based contributors about the Euro are also welcome

[aot871]

An interesting and well thought out post, if I may say so, goji. I agree that the GBP/ Thai Baht exchange rate was falling long before Brexit. I recall the exchange rate being around the 70 -74 Baht to the GBP mark when I first started holidaying in Thailand in 2003.

And, as regards the UK travel allowance, I’m pretty sure that it remained at £50 from 1966 to 1979. There follows an extract from Hansard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hansard) from 1969:



From a brief Internet search I could not find anything definitive, but the following extract appears to indicate that the £50 allowance remained unchanged until it was abolished in 1979.

You also had to take your passport into the bank , and they would stamp it because there was also a yearly amount you where allowed to take out.The passport had a page stuck in so the bank could always add the amounts up to check if you had not exceded the yearly limit

[Nirish guy]

Can anyone who was there and who had to endure such silliness confirm were the rules actually enforced STRICTLY and even handedly across the Country or like most things in life where there "ways and means' of getting your hands on a few quid extra when needed to head off somewhere from a friendly bank manager / teller or someone who's business dealt in "cash" perhaps etc or was that impossible, as as I've grown older I've usually found that no matter how strict the rule people always somehow "find a way" around it ( and good for them in doing so I say ! )

[goji]

Thank you Jellybean for providing further links on the £50 foreign travel allowance.

Just in case anyone thinks exchange controls cannot come back, Iceland had some form of controls for almost a decade after the 2008 global crises. I don't know the precise restrictions, but they were in place.

Obviously shortly after we understand such restrictions can be introduced when governments screw up the economy, we can take pre-emptive action and move some of it to Bangkok, Singapore, Dublin, Zurich or wherever takes our fancy long before the **** hits the pan.

After all, even after the pound has fallen to 39 baht, remember, it can always get MUCH worse. Remember, the leader of the opposition has long admired the regime in Venezuela:

[arsenal]

With Johnson as Prime Minister you're likely to see 30 baht to the pound and with Corbyn 30 pounds to the baht.

[AsDaRa]

The EUR exchange rate is bad too. The Netherlands didn't vote for a Nexit. We are still in. But also I have a bad exchange rate. In the past I had to pay roughly 25 EUR for 1000 baht. Now 28. So 10.000 baht is now 30 EUR more. I do about 6000 to 8000 baht in a single day when here. So my week long holidays have become significantly more expensive.

So I don't think it's Brexit that explains if for the UK citizens among us, because as a Dutch citizen I have the same issues.

[lukylok]

I don't want to rub it in but the pound has been constatntly falling since I started working in 1968.
At the time, one £ was worth 12 DEM (deutsch mark).
Buying goods, from the UK, it paid to settle british invoices, as I was sure to make a change profit.
Till the british suppliers got wise and started to sell in european currencies.
At the introdution of the €, the pound was worth a little over 2 DEM.
In 34 years…..

[Manforallseasons]

I have no sympathy for the occasional visitor who can adjust his plans as needed however, I do have sympathy for those expats living here as they are required to show funds as more and more of their foreign currency must be changed to meet the new retirement visas.

[aot871]

I have no sympathy for the occasional visitor who can adjust his plans as needed however, I do have sympathy for those expats living here as they are required to show funds as more and more of their foreign currency must be changed to meet the new retirement visas.

While i understand your reasoning with ref to the above message, a good many people buy a cheap air ticket which in most cases is not refundable,and also costs more to change dates

[Nirish guy]

And we Sir have no sympathy for you either - it's your choice to live there, if you can't afford it for god sake stop moaning about it and just move to some other cheaper 3rd world country. Thailand doesn't owe you anything. As an occasional visitor though I can ( and did) rearrange my plans exactly as you suggested - so thankfully your sympathy isn't required anyway. Anyway, what do you care, sure you're having a GREAT life there and Im sure a silly thing like many has no bearing on that for you - or DOES it ??

[Manforallseasons]

Nirish did you change your medication? I am not affected by the exchange rate fluctuations as I have a lot of Thai baht however, many folks I know that live here are very much affected, and frankly I have the ability and the means to live where I please and for that I am grateful......No moans from me. :mocking_mini:

[Nirish guy]

No moans from me. :mocking_mini:

Well THERES a first if nothing else !

Still I'm glad that you're not down to your last 1000 baht there and can continue to live your fabulous life unhindered by such trivial things as money.....it's a wonderful feeling isn't it - not that any of us mere mortals would know of course as our lives are of course much less superior to yours !

* damn where's that "large dose of sarcasm" emoji when you're looking for it :)

[goji]

On the original topic, there are some fine posts.

A useful reminder that the GBP has, on average been falling for decades.

A reminder that the EUR is also weak. In fact, although the GBP has fallen against the Euro, it is only down from 1.17 10 years ago, to 1.12 today. It probably just feels worse as we were getting over 1.4 Euros back in 2015.

The GBP is down significantly against the USD over 10 years & also down significantly against the THB.

The THB has strengthened against USD, EUR and GBP in that time.

So the "poor" GBP:THB exchange rate is a combination of strong performance by Thailand and weak performance by the UK.

Not a great surprise, as Thailand is staging a long term recovery from the Asian financial crises of 1997 & still has good trade figures, combined with less borrowing than in our economies.

Where the GBP:THB rate goes from here in the short term, I do not know. However, I suspect the long term outlook for the GBP is not good. Also, if we do get a marxist government, the long term outlook for the currency and economy is not good.

Since Corbyn is way too thick to understand that capital flows to where it can earn a return, the pound would be a lot lower after 5 years of him in power. Combined with the risk of them screwing it up so badly that exchange controls are possible.

So for those of us who still like to spend any significant amount of time in Thailand, all we need to do is think about how to mitigate these risks.
If all your money is tied up in UK property, UK stocks and a fancy fast depreciating car on the drive, you are at the mercy of the exchange rate fluctuations.
If you move some of your money to Asian funds & investment trusts, the currency risk is suddenly reduced. Placing some of it in an overseas bank or broking account and the risk of exchange rate controls is reduced.

As for expats, well they have also had 50+ years (typically) to observe how exchange rates move and arrange their affairs accordingly. So I don't think they can justify whinging any more than we can.

[joe552]

I've actually found this thread quite interesting (God, I need to get out more!). I'm only an occasional visitor and always have a fixed and limited budget. For my trip in September, that will be a bit more than usual. "You cut your cloth to suit your measure", I was taught. A few less beers in the Beer Garden? Going home alone from the bars in Sunnee a couple of times? Well, so be it. I do have some sympathy for those older men on a fixed pension who live there, and for whom exchange rates actually make a difference in their daily lives.

[colmx]

. For my trip in September, that will be a bit more than usual.

Did you book your flights yet Joe? What dates will you be there?
If you want to throw your own morlam I am told the price is 300,000 baht for a decent troupe + rental of the land!

[joe552]

I'm just waiting for the cash to hit my account. Hopefully on Friday and then we'll be all set. My own morlam? Now there's an idea!

[joe552]

Flights are now booked - yippee!. I arrive on 18 September and leave 2 October. I'll be at Yensabai Condo.

[aot871]

Flights are now booked - yippee!. I arrive on 18 September and leave 2 October. I'll be at Yensabai Condo.

Joe , if you dont mind me asking , how much for the flt , and what airline?

[joe552]

Emirates from Dublin via Dubai. The actual flight was around €520/540. I was annoyed that I had to pay to select seats, which added almost €100 to the fare. Still, it's a lot less than I paid on my first trip.

[Nirish guy]

Im sure Joe will answer you shortly re your above but just to add to his answer I can tell you that I'm off in several days time from Dublin to Bangkok with Emirates (with two short layovers via Frankfurt / Abu Dhabi- god knows why I booked that as I never do !) and that cost approximately £520 return or so ( actually 605 euro to be exact) when I'd booked it back in April this year, but I see on just checking that again now that that the same flight if being booked today would be £ 627 (don't you just love it when you see that happening :-)

I also noted though that as of just now there's also a Turkish Airlines flight going out the same dates and with a much more civilised flight time and only one short layover and hence a much shorter flight time which is available for only £580 which would have been a better option for sure ( dont you just hate it when THAT happens ! :-)

Oh well, ya pays your money you take your chance I guess ! Normally at this time of year I'd leave it to the last minute to book, both so that can adjust my date to suit my work commitments etc and also as there always seems to be plenty of lower cost option flights floating around about this time usually, but if booking for anytime around high season / Christmas etc then early booking is always advisable.

* Remembering that if you're in the UK that booking before October might also be a good idea just in case all goes to ( even more) shit with the Pound after yet more Brexit shenanigans round that next "exit" date no doubt.

[goji]

I was annoyed that I had to pay to select seats, which added almost €100 to the fare.

With most airlines, you can either pay to select a seat or just get whatever is allocated at random for free. So unless Emirates is unique, surely paying for the seat is optional ?
I would happily pay Eur100 if it guaranteed me an emergency exit row seat, but not for an ordinary one.
Since my next flight is with EVA in premium economy, the difference between the seats is not enough for me to pay for a specific one.

[aot871]

Im flying last week in sept and back 11 oct , with qatar , no charge to book seat

[Nirish guy]

I was annoyed that I had to pay to select seats, which added almost €100 to the fare. .

I'm confused Joe - do you mean you HAD to select a seat after booking i.e the booking wouldn't go through unless you went ahead with selecting a seat ( at a further cost) OR do you mean after you decided to select a seat you were annoyed to find it had added 100 euro to the cost of the ticket ?

I'm guessing that its the first and not the second as travelling alone as I believe you are I'm sure you could care less where you sit and would much rather have spent that 100 euro in the beer garden ?

If it was the first surely you could have gone for the auto seat selection option where you dont pick a seat and end up just wherever they put you ( for the 100 euro less ) - no ? Or maybe that's your point, that that WASN"T an option on that flight / airline perhaps ??

[gerefan2]

I'm guessing that its the first and not the second as travelling alone as I believe you are I'm sure you could care less where you sit and would much rather have spent that 100 euro in the beer garden ?



On the contrary...

I travelled with Eva Air last week and they charge for seat selection nowadays.i am extremely fussy about where I sit.

1 I try never to sit at the front of the compartments near the partitions. That’s where the breeders hang their screaming babies.i have had 10 + hours of that once...never ever again.
2. I like to walk around now and then. I like to visit the lavatory too. That’s inconvenient, if not impossible,if you are at a window seat with three in a row.

I therefore want an isle seat at the rear of any compartment.

So on my last flight I took a gamble and hoped the flight wasn’t full. Being June I was right and there were plenty of empty seats so I got my choice for free. However,I am returning mid July which is a holiday period so I have forked out £26 (not 100 Euros) for a seat of my choice.

I don’t like it but am stuck with it!

[Nirish guy]

On the contrary...,,,,I therefore want an isle seat at the rear of any compartment.!

I was more thinking of Joe there perhaps and him maybe not giving a shit so much as he might rather save his money for the bar - me personally I'm 100% with you on this and I too go through EXACTLY the same thought processes re the whole being no where NEAR any bassinets seats ( I too had to endure someone else brat screaming for what seemed like 8 hours solid - NEVER AGAIN . Also likewise re the window / middle seats too ( although I've gotten to be an expert in holding it in should such occurrences arise) hence I'm normally a 26D Aisle seat type of guy ( depending on the plane of course ) - unless on Air Asia where then the opposite is true and I'm a Row hot seat 1D kinda guy! :)

Actually it makes me laugh as year on year I go through that same mental process wondering where to sit only to find that flight after flight I've subconsciously booked the exact same seat each and every time !

Actually I can never decide is that liking things to be / remain the same thing because I'm getting older and weirder and cant handle change OR is it based on life experiences where I've already HAD the shit seats / hotel rooms / layovers etc and so now have learnt how to avoid them. I like to tell myself its the latter anyway whereas I do have a niggling suspicion that it may be in fact be more to do with the former !

[AsDaRa]

What I don't understand from budget airlines is this:
The carry on luggage has a ridicolously low max kg amount. Like 5 kg.

I go for one week to Thailand, and do only carry on. So never need to wait for my suitcase. But even underwear, shirts and 2 trousers already exceeds the 5 kg (inlcuding the weight of the suitcase itself).

Why do they force passengers to check in this luggage? It doesn't earn them more money because 1 check-in suitcase is part of the ticket prize. By forcing passengers to check in their luggage - because 5 kg is so low - they only introduce for themselves (that is the airline) an extra point of failure: checked-in luggage can get lost. And handling check in luggage costs also money. So there are 2 disvantages for the airline if many people use checked-in luggage.

So why do budget airlines not say: carry on, max 10 kg or 12 kg? Then more people will do carry on only, making it cheaper for the airline and reducing errors.

I ignore the max kg limitations and until now always get away with it, but I do not understand the rationale for it. Why not say carry on max 10 kilo and if you also have checked-in luggage then combined can not exceed say 25 kg? Why not even discourage checked-in and charge extra for it? To promote carry-on only.

[gerefan2]

What I don't understand from budget airlines is this:
The carry on luggage has a ridicolously low max kg amount. Like 5 kg.


So why do budget airlines not say: carry on, max 10 kg or 12 kg? Then more people will do carry on only, making it cheaper for the airline and reducing errors.
.

Because budget airlines usually operate smaller aircraft and there is not the room in the overhead bins.

If you ever have the “pleasure” of flying with Ryanair you will see them accept only a certain number of bags and if you are last getting on your bag will be taken off you and put in he hold, whilst you climb the steps.

[Jellybean]

What I don't understand from budget airlines is this:
The carry on luggage has a ridiculously low max kg amount. Like 5 kg . . .

One alternative to get around the luggage restriction, and I don’t personally recommend it AsDaRa, as it has the potential to be rather uncomfortable, but it is doable, depending of course on which items you choose. And that is to wear as many of your clothes as you can possibly bear. An example of which is contained in the following video showing Joey, one of the leading characters in the US TV series Friends . . .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxCY0KsCCLI


;)

[joe552]

Re: deciding to pay for my chosen seat - I'm don't sleep on aircraft. So I walk around a lot. I want an aisle seat. Unless I'm flying to Tenerife which is only 4 hours. But long haul, I want that freedom to move around. I just don't remember having to pay this charge before. NIrish, it was clear on the Emirates site that I would be charged for seat selection. I could have left it until 48 hours before flight time, but who wants to sit in the middle of 4 seats for 6/7 hours? Not me.

Anyway, it's done now. The boys of Sunee will be that little bit poorer as a result.

[goji]

I once CHOSE a bassinet seat, as the emergency exit seats were booked. I hadn't noticed babies in them before & was lucky enough never to be disturbed whilst across the aisle in the emergency rows. Anyway, there is a young lady next to me and her offspring making a dreadful racket whilst the plane is taxiing. Anyhow, the little brat was silent for the 11.5 hours the plane was in the air.
I will try not to sit there again though.

Anyway, I am not paying to select a seat for my next flight to Thailand with EVA.
What I would like to know, is once I come to check in with the long haul airlines, like EVA or Emirates, do they allocate a seat at random like the shitty low cost airlines, or do I get some choice in the matter ? It's difficult to envisage EVA refusing my request when I am checking in in the airport. However, if I try for first choice with an on-line check in, is their choice then ?


As for the European low cost airlines, I've seen them ask people to put their trolley bags in the hold, but they have never bothered me with my cabin max rucksack, which was to the "previous" Ryan Air free cabin bag size limits & still OK with the more civilized Easy Jet.
Unfortunately, Ryan Air have downsized their "free" baggage allowance, so since the c***s did that, I've managed to find other airlines so far.

I don't know why the hell they don't re-engineer all these 737 and A320 cabins. For the low cost model, the proportion of people checking in luggage is lower. So they need less luggage space under the floor and more in the overhead compartments. So just lower the floor by a few inches. Should only cost a few hundred million to engineer ?

[gerefan2]

When I checked in with Eva Air at Heathrow last week the automatic check in machine didn’t recognise me so I got sent to a human who asked what type of seat I wanted and I got just that. But then the flight wasn’t full and I was early too.
So I suppose it just depends!

[francois]

goji, If all the good seats are taken by prepaid customers then you will have far fewer choices when checking in. Better checkin early.

[frequent]

goji, If all the good seats are taken by prepaid customers then you will have far fewer choices when checking in. Better checkin early.The optimal solution would be the ability to select seats in a “no chatterers, no drunks, no children, no seat recliners” section. As I recall both Thai and Malaysian have a small “no children” Economy section upstairs on their A380 aircraft but that’s as close as it gets. As I only ever fly in Business Class I’m unable to comment on how effective it is - and that’s without reminding everyone that I’ve never ever been to Thailand or Pattaya

[goji]

goji, If all the good seats are taken by prepaid customers then you will have far fewer choices when checking in. Better checkin early.
That would be my intention. On line check in supposedly opens 48 hours before the flight.
However, I don't know if under the new regime, EVA will permit me to select a seat, or will it be allocated at random ?
I also don't know if 48 hours means 48 hours, or does it mean (for example), at midnight on the day 48 hours before the flight ?

The obvious thing to do is to try and get a good seat with an on line check in. It it's allocated at random, try to change it at the check in desk.

[gerefan2]

I never bother with on line check in with Evaair. I do not see the purpose in spending time doing it only to be made to check in baggage etc again at the airport. That’s when I get allocated the seat unless I have paid.
As said before get there early.