Retirement Visa

[Maxx]

Yesterday I renewed my “Retirement Visa “ for the 16th time using the monthly income method.
This was one of the most seamless renewals ,the most taxing issue in the whole process was the schlep up to Bangkok last week in the the heat to acquire my income verification letter from the Irish consulate in Wireless Rd.
That was the only financial document I submitted to the Immigration dept. in Jomtien nothing else was demanded.
He raced through my papers with his yellow maker not even demanding his usual ”you photo copy this “routine.
My reflections on the recent shenanigans regarding this issue is that much of it could have been avoided with a little more diplomacy by the western Diplomats.
The Irish Consulate has always required you submit supporting documents of income before issuing the verification letter ,This in my case has always been Bank statements .Pension letters and property income statements all U.K based.
The never at any point asked to see Thai Bank A/C”s or money transfers into Thailand.
Now while I am aware that my verification letter might not be of “Price .Waterhouse .Cooper” standard,
this has been the case for the last 15 years and seemingly nothing has changed.
When ”Big Joke” started his “Bad Guys out” Nationalist Bullshit he should have been seen as the latest Puyai who needed to be seen off by skilled diplomacy.
Netting a few Nigerian drug mules,Lao sex workers or a few destitute Americans would have kept everyone happy.
I have no idea what type of income verification he was demanding as apart from the notorious American swearing on the Bible nonsense (American exceptionalness gone mad )to the best of my knowledge most embassies required some documentation before issuing a verification letter.
Surely skilled Diplomats could see the wide range of interpretations that could be attached to the word “Verify “
Some diplomatic silence and mumbled mutterings of “Check “, Check” would surely have sufficed to maintain the status quo.
Instead we had a few of the Big Boys throwing their toys out from the pram creating unnecessary confusion and stress for their citizens
The American system of affidavits was open to abuse and surely a few accompanying documents would not have taxed the Embassy staff unduly.
As for the British consumed as they are by “ Brexit “ and not over taxing their already vastly reduced mission in Bangkok it was too good an opportunity to pass up.
So Such is life In LOS as they say who knows by next year we might all facing entirely new criteria.
Kudos to those Consulates and Embassies who were not panicked into making rash decisions, perhaps they could invite a few of the Big beasts to a refresher course in the art of Diplomacy!
I also managed to navigate this period relatively stress free by avoiding such sites as Thai visa thus keeping my blood pressure relatively stable. I checked occasionally on the Irish Consulate website and when the advice did not change I proceeded as I had done previous years

[frequent]

The American system of affidavits was open to abuse and surely a few accompanying documents would not have taxed the Embassy staff unduly.How do you propose the Embassy staff verify the "few accompanying documents"? As you have said, the Irish Embassy doesn't bother to verify whatever bullshit you may show them, which makes it no better than an affidavit sworn by someone with no regard for the truth. Anyone with access to Photoshop can knock up something that looks genuine. The Thais apparently demanded "verification" and the major embassies said, quite rightly in my opinion, "not our job"

[frequent]

By way of example: a friend of mine moves money between two bank accounts that he owns. One of the accounts shows incoming money as "rent". He submits a copy of the statements showing rental income (but not the other account) together with a copy of a residential lease showing the monthly rental to his Embassy who duly certify that they've seen the documentation that supports his income statement. If the Embassy were to verify his "income" they would find not only is he shuffling money between two bank accounts both in his own name, but the residential lease is for a property he does not own and with which he has no association. QED

[Smiles]

" ... Yesterday I renewed my “Retirement Visa “ for the 16th time using the monthly income method.
This was one of the most seamless renewals ,the most taxing issue in the whole process was the schlep up to Bangkok last week in the the heat to acquire my income verification letter from the Irish consulate in Wireless Rd.
That was the only financial document I submitted to the Immigration dept. in Jomtien nothing else was demanded...."So Maxx ... let me get this straight.
You seem to be saying that the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, or, getting a letter from a Thai bank showing monthly deposits of at least 65,000 baht route are no longer the only methods for attaining 12 month Extensions . . . and that now -- out of the blue -- the producing of an income letter from one's Embassy is now being accepted again by Thai Immigration for your extension?

(PS: I'm not interested in why. I'm not interested on Thai head cops getting the boot. Not interested in Nigerian drug smuggling. Not interested in the Irish. Not interested in Frequent's fetish with the word "verification". Not interested in kudos for Embassies.)

[Maxx]

"the producing of an income letter from one's Embassy is now being accepted again by Thai Immigration for your extension "

Smiles to the best of my knowledge an income letter from one's Embassy has never been rejected by Thai Immigration it was the British, U.S.Australian and Danish embassies who refused to issue such letters on the grounds that they would not verify income.

All other embassies seem to be business as usual although process of income verification may differ

[frequent]

So Maxx ... let me get this straight.
You seem to be saying that the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, or, getting a letter from a Thai bank showing monthly deposits of at least 65,000 baht route are no longer the only methods for attaining 12 month Extensions . . . and that now -- out of the blue -- the producing of an income letter from one's Embassy is now being accepted again by Thai Immigration for your extension?Immigration want A letter verifying your income. If your Embassy will give you one well and good. Some embassies once gave a certification letter but are refusing to give a verification letter. Passport holders from those countries now have to produce an equivalent letter from their Thai bank, verifying that an amount equal to or greater than 65K baht has been received from abroad each and every month. The Irish Embassy is one of many who claim to be verifying the income (but see my example of how that isn't really verification) and will issue a verification letter for their citizens. The British, Americans and Australians know that that can be a sham and cannot be verified by an embassy official so won't issue such a letter

[dab69]

Close to retirement here in the USA. Wondering if I get a statement of earnings from Social Security Administration if this would be acceptable.
Have to work one more year so I get the required amount per month necessary for Thai authorities.

[Gaybutton]

if I get a statement of earnings from Social Security Administration if this would be acceptable.
It should be, but these days nobody can be certain what they will be walking into when they go to immigration for the retirement visa. You probably would be better trying to get a first-time retirement visa from the Thai embassy in your home country. Since you mention Social Security, I assume your home country is the USA.

For whatever method you use in order to get the retirement visa, you must have a Thai bank account. You're not going to get the retirement visa without one. That's getting more and more difficult for foreigners to do. As far as I know, the easiest Thai bank that will allow foreigners to open an account is Kasikorn Bank, aka K-Bank.

For the 65,000 baht per month method, you have to be able to prove the money has been deposited into your Thai bank account every month for at least a full year before applying for the visa, and you also have to prove the money was deposited from a foreign source. Proving the money was deposited from a foreign source won't be a problem if direct deposits are going into your account from Social Security.

The problem is immigration has been rejecting that method for several people, and it's difficult to know why.

The only method that you can be certain immigration will accept is the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account. Immigration is accepting that method, but there are a few rules you have to follow. At least 800,000 baht has to be in a Thai bank account and it must already have been in there for at least 3 months before applying for the visa. Despite the fact that the rules say the money has to be in the account for at least 2 months before applying, many immigration officials have been insisting that it be there for at least 3 months.

After they grant the visa, the 800,000 baht must remain in the account for at least 3 more months before you can withdraw any of it. After the 3 months, you can withdraw from the account, but at least 400,000 baht must remain in the account and cannot be withdrawn. If less than 400,000 baht is in the account at any time during the year, then the following year they won't grant the visa. Pattaya immigration has been requiring those who used the 800,000 baht method to return 3 months later with their updated bank passbook to prove you never let the account drop below 400,000 baht. As far as I know, Pattaya immigration is the only immigration office in Thailand doing that.

These rules about the 800,000 baht and the 400,000 baht are on my "I Don't Get It" list. I see it as a Catch-22. The reason for the requirement in the first place is so immigration knows you have enough to support yourself. But if something happens that necessitates withdrawing the money, now they won't grant the visa the following year even if you top up the account back to 800,000. And if during the year immigration finds out the account dropped below 400,000 baht, they can immediately revoke your visa. I gave up trying to figure out that logic.

As it stands right now, those, supposedly, are the rules. Now that just recently the chief of immigration has been replaced, nobody knows if rule changes will be forthcoming yet again. If the rules do change, I hope they at least will make more sense.

[Gaybutton]

Sorry, I spotted a mistake in my post above, but too late to edit the post.

The mistake is: "return 3 months later with their updated bank passbook to prove you never let the account drop below 400,000 baht."

I should have written, "return 3 months later with their updated bank passbook to prove you never let the account drop below 800,000 baht.

[2lz2p]

Based on reports I have rec'd, Jomtien Immigration is being fairly consistent for those using 800,000 baht in a Thai bank.

GB:
Pattaya immigration has been requiring those who used the 800,000 baht method to return 3 months later with their updated bank passbook to prove you never let the account drop below 400,000 baht. As far as I know, Pattaya immigration is the only immigration office in Thailand doing that.

To clarify, GB's comments, I think he meant to say Jomtien Immigration requires you to return after 3 months to show you have not let the account balance drop below 800,000 (instead of 400,000), which is the new requirement as of March 1, 2019 rule change. Although the new rules say the 800,000 needs to be on deposit for 2 months before you make application (previously it was 2 months for new applicants and 3 months for renewals), GB is correct that there have been reports about some Immigration offices still saying it must be 3 months - however, I don't believe Jomtien Immigration is one of them as the document they have you sign to acknowledge the date you need to return (3 months after) shows the applicable rule in English, which clearly shows only the 2 month requirement. At all other times, you must maintain at least 400,000 baht in the account if you want to be able to renew using money in the bank method the following year.

Also, at Jomtien, they are apparently now requiring, when using the 800,000 in the bank, that the bank letter be dated on the date of application and also show a transaction in the account. At last Sunday's Pattaya City Expat Club meeting, a friend of mine said they renewed their extension the previous week. No problems encountered except they had to go out, do a transaction, and update their passbook to show it was made.

As to the 65,000 baht monthly income. If your Embassy still provides a letter saying the income was verified (whether it was or not, so long as the Embassy says it was), then that is all that is needed. I did see a report a month or so ago (Thaivisa as I recall) where a person whose Embassy still issues the certification letter, tried to renew (I don't believe it was at Jomtien) by showing bank records/letters and was told not acceptable, go get your Embassy letter.

As to what Jomtien requires, I had only one or two reports. One which was sent to me by email last week, the person also had just renewed that week. He said in addition to evidence of the source of his income (pension statement in his case) and Thai bank passbook, and his Thai bank statements verified by the two banks he used, they also wanted a letter from his Thai bank verifying the account name and balance -- same letter as used by those using 800,000. He mentioned that he used transferwise to his SCB bank but switched to Bangkok Bank early this year so the deposits would show as foreign transactions. He said that although his SCB statements did not indicate they were from a foreign source and had copies of his transferwise transactions and bank statement for his home bank where his pension was received in case needed, the SCB deposits were not challenged and he was not asked for any additional documentation.

Also, I have heard that Jomtien Immigration has a "sample bank letter" regarding the deposits to your account that you can provide to your bank to show what they want to see. However, I have not seen a copy of the example -- if anyone should happen to be at Immigration and obtain one, I think most of us will be most appreciative if they post a copy here and/or if they send a copy with an email to info@pcec.club, the PCEC will publish a copy.

I will be doing my renewal in June (one month before my renewal date) using the 65,000 baht monthly income method - being from USA, I will need to have all the relevant bank documents/pension statement. I do use Bangkok Bank and prior to March 2019 used ACH transfers through their NY branch in excess of the 65,000 baht monthly minimum. Since March, I have been using Transferwise. So, all of my transfers will show as foreign transfers (FTT code). Once I go through the process, I will post my experience.

[2lz2p]

Sorry, I spotted a mistake in my post above, but too late to edit the post.

The mistake is: "return 3 months later with their updated bank passbook to prove you never let the account drop below 400,000 baht."

I should have written, "return 3 months later with their updated bank passbook to prove you never let the account drop below 800,000 baht.

Hi GB, I wrote and posted my info before I saw your correction. :-)

[frequent]

Close to retirement here in the USA. Wondering if I get a statement of earnings from Social Security Administration if this would be acceptable. Have to work one more year so I get the required amount per month necessary for Thai authorities.Unfortunately Gaybutton’s response has confused getting an initial visa with extending an existing visa. For getting the visa all you need apart from the other paperwork is evidence of the equivalent of 800K in a US bank or 65K income. Your Social Security letter should suffice. That will give you a 12-month visa which, if you leave Thailand and return immediately before the “enter before” date will give you almost two years from getting the initial visa. That will give you the second 12 months to comply with the monthly deposits before you have to worry about the rigmarole including a local bank account to which Gaybutton refers - and frankly who knows what the regulations might be by then. For the best information I suggest you look to travellerjim’s thread from a couple of months ago

[dab69]

https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/attachment.php?attachmentid=8686&stc=1&d=1549003644[




https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?20633-Thai-Immigration-Issues-NEW-Proof-of-Bank-Account-Balances-for-retirement-extensions




Non-Immigrant O-A Retirement/Long-Stay Visa

• For the purpose of retirement (Type “O-A”)
Qualifications of an applicant
1. A foreign national whose age is 50 years or above. (on the date of submitting the application)
2. Not being prohibited from entering the Kingdom under the Immigration Act. B.E. 2522 .
3. Having the nationality of or the residence in the country where his/ her application is submitted.
4. Having no criminal record against the security of Thailand and the country of his/her nationality, or the country of his/her residence.
5. Not having prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535)
(Leprosy, Tuberculosis [T.B], Elephantiasis, Drug addiction, Alcoholism, 3nd step of syphilis)

Required documents (*** One original set and 3 sets of copies. Requested documentation 5–7 must be notarized.***)
1. Four visa application forms |Download|
2. Four passport-type photos (Passport-type photo, 2” x 2”, color, front-view, taken within 6 months, and write your name and last name on the back of each photo).
3. Four copies of the applicant's passport (the picture page) - include the actual passport when submitting the application. Passport must be valid for at least 18 more months.
4. Four copies of Personal Data Form. |Download|
*5. Four copies of:
- applicant's bank statement (U.S.) showing a balance in the amount of not less than 800,000 Baht (current Thai exchange rate is available from the Bank of Thailand web site)
- or an income certificate with a monthly salary of not less than 65,000 Baht
- or a combination of a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht a year.
(When submitting the bank statement, a letter from the bank verifying the account and balance is to be presented)
*6. Four copies of police verification stating the applicant has no criminal record issued by the authority concerned of his/her nationality or residence. The verification must not be more than three months old. Please note we will not accept the receipt for Request for Live Scan Service unless it includes the actual report/results.
*7. Four copies of the completed medical certificate form |Download| issued from the country where the application is submitted, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 (B.E. 2535) with the name and address of the doctor. The certificate must be not be older than 3 months.
8. Copy of applicant's airline tickets showing flight to Thailand.
9. The visa fee for Non-Immigrant O-A Long-Stay (Retirement) visa is $200 - payable by cashiers check or money order only made payable to "Royal Thai Consulate General - Los Angeles"

If the applicant's spouse will be accompanying him or her, a copy of the applicant's valid marriage certificate must be presented as supporting documentation. If the applicant's spouse is not qualified for the retirement visa (e.g. not age 50+), the spouse will be considered for the Non-Immigrant Visa Type “O” or Temporary Residents.


Extending the Non-Immigrant O-A (Retirement/Long-Stay) Visa

The consulate cannot extend/renew the Non-Immigrant O-A (Retirement/Long-Stay Visa) - you will have to re-apply for this type of visa (resubmit all of the required documentation) or you can apply for the extension through Thai Immigration in Thailand.

From: “Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters, No. 606/2549, Re: Rules and Conditions in the Consideration of Alien Applications for Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand”

Consideration for Extending Non-Immigrant O-A (Retirement/Long-Stay) Visa

7.21 In the case of a retiree: Permission will be granted for a period of not more than one year at a time. Qualifications for consideration of extending a Non-Immigrant O-A (Retirement/Long-Stay) Visa include:

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM); and
(2) The applicant is 50 years of age or over; and
(3) Proof of income of not less than Baht 65,000 per month; or
(4) Account deposit with a bank in Thailand of not less than Baht 800,000 as shown in bank account transactions for the past 3 months; or
(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application
(6) For an alien who entered Thailand before October 21, 1998, and continuously allowed to stay in the Kingdom as a retiree, the following shall apply:

(a) He/she must be 60 years of age or over and has regular income. His/her bank account deposit shall not be less than Baht 200,000 a year and evidence of the account deposit for the previous 3 months must be shown; or he/she has a monthly income of not less than Baht 20,000.

(b) If he/she is under 60 years of age but not less than 55, the alien shall have regular income with a bank account deposit of not less than Baht 500,000 a year and evidence of the account deposit for the previous 3 months must be shown, or he/she has a monthly income of not less than Baht 50,000.

Documentation to be submitted includes:

1. Application form
2. Copy of the applicant's passport
3. Proof of income, e.g., retirement pension, interest earnings or dividends, etc.; and/or
4. Certificate of local bank account deposit together with copies of bank account records
5. Only in the case set out in clause (6), the same documentation as stated in clauses 1-4 above shall be required.

Thai Customs information on bringing used personal effects to Thailand
Bringing vehicles to Thailand

ดูข้อมูลอื่นๆ


http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/service_visa_detail.aspx?link_id=48

[dab69]

http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/pdf/medical_certificate.pdf
http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/pdf/personal-data.pdf
http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/pdf/visa_application.pdf

[goji]

I will be doing my renewal in June (one month before my renewal date) using the 65,000 baht monthly income method - being from USA, I will need to have all the relevant bank documents/pension statement. I do use Bangkok Bank and prior to March 2019 used ACH transfers through their NY branch in excess of the 65,000 baht monthly minimum. Since March, I have been using Transferwise. So, all of my transfers will show as foreign transfers (FTT code). Once I go through the process, I will post my experience.

So if someone just transfers 65,000 baht every month via Transferwise and it shows up as FTT, this should satisfy the income requirement ?

Strictly speaking, I don't have a regular income, it's just an investment pot which pays dividends & might go up or down in any year. However, if I transfer 65,000 baht of that to Thailand each month, it counts as income ?

[Jellybean]

So if someone just transfers 65,000 baht every month via Transferwise and it shows up as FTT, this should satisfy the income requirement ?

Strictly speaking, I don't have a regular income, it's just an investment pot which pays dividends & might go up or down in any year. However, if I transfer 65,000 baht of that to Thailand each month, it counts as income ?

goji, bank interest, building society interest, royalties, bonuses and dividends are all sources of income, not just income from directors’ remuneration, an employment (regular or not), pension or drawings in respect of self-employment.

I doubt very much that the Thai Immigration department is concerned with the source of your income; my belief is that they are only interested in the monthly amount of your income and that it can be shown to originate from a foreign source. Therefore, as long as your dividend and any other income amounts to at least 65,000 Baht per month, that’s all that will concern them.

Before the rule change, in the most recent years, all I did was take or post my Certificate of Income and details of tax paid (form P60) to the British Embassy in Bangkok and they would provide me with a letter confirming that I had X amount of GBP as annual and monthly income. The Thai immigration officer, when renewing my ‘retirement visa’, would simply calculate if the stated income was the equivalent of 65,000 Baht per month. The immigration officer was not concerned about the source of that income and no questions were ever asked about the source, although the Embassy letter did mention the source.

But as we have read over the last few months on this forum, the embassy route is, in the case of the United States, British and some other embassies, now closed because they say they are not able to verify the income. Well, that’s my understanding.

[frequent]

I doubt very much that the Thai Immigration department is concerned with the source of your income; my belief is that they are only interested in the monthly amount of your income and that it can be shown to originate from a foreign source. Therefore, as long as your dividend and any other income amounts to at least 65,000 Baht per month, that’s all that will concern them.Absolutely correct Mr Jellybaby - in fact no-one (except the sender) can say what the source of the funds are that are transferred to a Thai bank - it could be savings, it could be pension, it could be dividends, it could be sale of drugs, it could be gambling winnings. There is no source reported to the receiving bank whatsoever

Mind you, I only know that by hearsay, living here in Houston and never having visited Thailand or Pattaya doncha know

[2lz2p]

Jellybean:
I doubt very much that the Thai Immigration department is concerned with the source of your income; my belief is that they are only interested in the monthly amount of your income and that it can be shown to originate from a foreign source. Therefore, as long as your dividend and any other income amounts to at least 65,000 Baht per month, that’s all that will concern them.


From General Information section of Pattaya City Expats Club webpage for Visa & Immigration – Extending Stay (source: http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/expats/docs/ExtendingStay.pdf])


Thai Immigration issued an amendment to order 138-2557 stating the documentary evidence required if the applicant chooses to use monthly income as their financial resource for qualifying extension based on being related to a Thai including marriage (Section 2.18 of each police order) or on retirement in the Kingdom (Section 2.22 of each police order). Thai Immigration issued another supplemental police order35/2561effective March 1, 2019, to change the financial requirements for qualifying for an extension based on retirement.

The Amendment to Police Order 138-2557 shows the following regarding documentation to support use of monthly income (source is copy ThaiVisa.com translation of the order:http://pattayacityexpatsclub.com/expats/docs/Amendmenttopoliceorder138-2557(Eng)-documentation-eff-1-Jan-2019.pdf)


2.22 Retirement - Document
1. Application form
2. A copy of the applicant’s passport
3. Evidence showing income such as pension or interest received or dividend received and/or;
4. Certification letter from the bank in Thailand and a copy of bank book.
5. In the case of (6), the same documents as described in I - 4 are required.

Item 5 above that refers to item (6) relates to item (6) in the original Police Order to which this amendment applies.

2.22 Retirement - Procedures


Evidence showing income not less than 65,000 baht monthly includes:
1) Evidence showing pension - a letter of certification on deposit in the bank in Thailand and bank statement showing money transfer from overseas every month for the past 12 months. Except in a case where the applicant's retirement is less than 1 year, the evidence must be from the month of retirement. For example, the retirement is started in October 2018, the applicant must show pension payment evidence from November 2018 and pension payment evidence of the whole 12 months is required for the next year or;
2) Income certification certified by the embassy or consular.

As noted, it includes “Evidence showing pension." Based on some recent reports from Jomtien Immigration Office, they are asking to see evidence of the source of the pension/income. They are also requiring a letters from your bank reporting the monthly deposits to the account and verification of the account in addition to copies from the passbook.

[frequent]

Presumably Immigration is fully aware that the letter setting out, for example, US Social Security entitlements is self-generated for all those who have an online account and easily modifiable for anyone with a PDF editor? I see a lively business opportunity for the Khaosan Rd forgers

[frequent]

One more thing you'll need to factor in, dab69 - does your US health insurance cover you in Thailand? As from today all O-A visa applicants must have a mandatory level of health insurance. Overseas-originated cover is acceptable, but if you don't have that, budget on an extra 8-10,000 baht a month (based on your age) for Thailand-based insurance. Apparently the requirement also covers those extending their visa - yes Smiles, that means you, if your original visa was O-A

I suggest you join the discussion among the headless chickens on Thaivisa rather than venting here

[dab69]

He/she must be 60 years of age or over and has regular income. His/her bank account deposit shall not be less than Baht 200,000 a year and evidence of the account deposit for the previous 3 months must be shown; or he/she has a monthly income of not less than Baht 20,000.

wow as you get older you require less money.

I'll probably just" winter" 90 days/year in Thailand for a while.

[Nirish guy]

So, ( and I really dont mean to sound rude here to those who it may seemingly apply too) but unless I'm missing something they're asking that we should have no less that £5,000 "in the bank" ( for at least 3 months of the year just as savings) and then have some / any form of income ( pension) that provides not less than £500 a month coming in - and people think this too much to ask ?

I think I'd be more concerned if I was living overseas from my home country and the above two conditions WEREN"T the case perhaps ! Or am I TOTALLY missing the point and are we implying that most / a lot of farang in Thailand are actually living just above the bread line and surviving on merge scraps each day with not a single penny in the bank to support themselves if "shit happens" - surely not ?

[bkkguy]

As from today all O-A visa applicants must have a mandatory level of health insurance

and how many of us here are actually on O-A visas?

and it has been approved by cabinet but there has been no implementation date and actual implementation details announced by either the Foreign Ministry (responsible for issuing the NON O-A visas) and the Interior Ministry and Immigration Bureau (responsible for allowing you to enter the country using your NON O-A visa)



Apparently the requirement also covers those extending their visa

not according to the article in The Nation (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30369323) that seams to have sparked this latest bout of knicker-twisting - it applies to those renewing their NON O-A visa

since there are no procedures, either in Immigration Offices in Thailand or embassies and consulates outside of Thailand, to renew or extend a visa perhaps the Health Service Support Dept official making the announcement and the Nation journalist should spend a bit more time running this past Immigration or Foreign Office officials who could perhaps help with the terminology and also perhaps help with the implementation details and if/when it will actually get implemented

How many times do we actually have to go through this mass debate before people wake up to themselves!

I actually think ThaiVisa pays The Nation to publish this type of article just to generate forum traffic - and thus ad revenue! At least the article last December when the concept was approved by the Medical Hub Committee was not quite so useless but still generated pages of ThaiVisa forum breast-beating from people who don't know what visa they have and are convinced Immigration is persecuting them.

[frequent]

And how many of us here are actually on O-A visas?Definitely not me - I’m a Latin teacher in Houston, never been to Thailand or Pattaya doncha know

[Brad the Impala]

Thai immigration policies are surely a pedant’s paradise.

[2lz2p]

He/she must be 60 years of age or over and has regular income. His/her bank account deposit shall not be less than Baht 200,000 a year and evidence of the account deposit for the previous 3 months must be shown; or he/she has a monthly income of not less than Baht 20,000.

wow as you get older you require less money.

I'll probably just" winter" 90 days/year in Thailand for a while.



That posting will surely cause some confusion - but if you look at the source, it is in ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU No. 327/2557 - Section 2.22 (6). While it relates to getting retirement extensions, it applies only to those that entered Thailand before October 21, 1998 which was the old rule for retirement before it changed to the current requirements. Otherwise often referred to as the "grandfather clause."


(6)An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:
(a)Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with fluids (sic) maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000
(b)If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 500,000or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,0002.

[kjun12]

So, ( and I really dont mean to sound rude here to those who it may seemingly apply too) but unless I'm missing something they're asking that we should have no less that £5,000 "in the bank" ( for at least 3 months of the year just as savings) and then have some / any form of income ( pension) that provides not less than £500 a month coming in - and people think this too much to ask ?

I think I'd be more concerned if I was living overseas from my home country and the above two conditions WEREN"T the case perhaps ! Or am I TOTALLY missing the point and are we implying that most / a lot of farang in Thailand are actually living just above the bread line and surviving on merge scraps each day with not a single penny in the bank to support themselves if "shit happens" - surely not ?

Your post is a bit obnoxious considering that your figures are so wrong. The want 800,000 baht in a Thai bank (19,762.06 pounds) and while we may not be starving it is difficult to tie up that much money. Additionally, they want the money in the bank for most of the year. Not 3 months.

[2lz2p]

One more thing you'll need to factor in, dab69 - does your US health insurance cover you in Thailand? As from today all O-A visa applicants must have a mandatory level of health insurance. Overseas-originated cover is acceptable, but if you don't have that, budget on an extra 8-10,000 baht a month (based on your age) for Thailand-based insurance. Apparently the requirement also covers those extending their visa - yes Smiles, that means you, if your original visa was O-A

I suggest you join the discussion among the headless chickens on Thaivisa rather than venting here

Actually, the requirement for applicants for Non-Immigrant O-A Visas do not yet have to have health insurance. The Cabinet has approved the requirement, but as mentioned in the articles published on the subject, the Ministry of Health (who made the announcements) also said that they would need to coordinate with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (that Ministry will need to instruct Thai Embassies/Consulate to implement the requirement) and the Immigration Bureau (Ministry of Interior/Royal Thai Police) before the requirement becomes effective. Further the MofH spokesperson said that it would most likely be July before that happens. So, until then all applicants for an O-A Visa do not yet have a requirement to have health insurance.

[goji]

The want 800,000 baht in a Thai bank (19,762.06 pounds) and while we may not be starving it is difficult to tie up that much money.

This is how the world works. Countries prefer immigrants who can pay their way. Buying visas & residency rights in some other countries is way more expensive than this. In some countries, you need to be on an investor visa scheme, which often requires 7 figure sums.

Despite being priced out of some of these, I'm absolutely fine with it, as I don't particularly want the doors kept open for every sponging bogus refugee to come to my own country. Therefore, I respect the right of other countries to require immigrants to pay their way.

For me, the message is clear. If I want some choice of where to live, it is best to get my finances in order.

For most people on a tidy middle class income, it's not that difficult. Make sure you don't have an expensive depreciating car on the drive when a 10~20 year old model will do just as well. Make sure you're earning as much as you can. If you're gay & single, stuff a lodger in the spare room. Review your expenses. Then figure out how to invest what's left over.

Getting the SGD 2.5 million for a Singapore investor visa might be beyond many of us, but raising THB 800,000 should not be difficult for many people who have lived a prudent lifestyle for 50 or more years.

I agree with you about not wanting to tie up that kind of money in an investment with low returns. Putting it in stocks or something with a higher return would suit me better.

However, Thailand can set the rules as it sees fit & our only options are to think ahead and get our finances in order, or scoot off and live somewhere else. The world does not owe us a living.

Incidentally, I was reading in the local UK paper about some 80 year old Brit living in Thailand who was very ill and trying to raise £50,000 to get back to the UK.

He's a fine example of why Thailand probably should be ensuring retired people are solvent.

[francois]

Incidentally, I was reading in the local UK paper about some 80 year old Brit living in Thailand who was very ill and trying to raise £50,000 to get back to the UK.

He's a fine example of why Thailand probably should be ensuring retired people are solvent.

Yes, kick those old fuckers out, after they have spent years of their income in Thailand.:devilsh:

[christianpfc]

He's a fine example of why Thailand probably should be ensuring retired people are solvent.
The problem lies elsewhere, I would put it:

...should be ensuring Foreigners do not become a burden to Thai society.

[Nirish guy]

Your post is a bit obnoxious considering that your figures are so wrong. The want 800,000 baht in a Thai bank (19,762.06 pounds) and while we may not be starving it is difficult to tie up that much money. Additionally, they want the money in the bank for most of the year. Not 3 months.

Re the figures you can take that up perhaps with Dab69 re his post No 21 above as THAT is the post to which I was replying ( correctly) and my reply to that was certainly not obnoxious and I stand by it. It's not unreasonable for ANY Country to ask and expect their expats to be able to pay their own way in terms of medical insurance and having enough to live in their country to a certain minimum standard over a period of time.

I accept that the 800,000 baht figure as mentioned by others if of course higher than the figures Dab69 mentions, however I would suggest ( as I've said before on other posts) that if thinking of relocating to a different county and after a life time of saving / working / selling your house or your ass or whatever I would think HAVING that 800,000 tucked away might not be THAT impossible for most people.

There's nothing obnoxious about that view, it's just a fact as I see it.

I do realise that not every has and as I've said before those people I feel for, but it's really not the Thai ( or any ) Governments fault or problem to legislate for same otherwise where do they stop - surely ?

[kjun12]

Renewed my visa extension today. Took all day and was a pain in the butt.

Happy that the OP got his so easily.

[Manforallseasons]

As someone who lives here on a 1 year visa extension I enjoy hearing the experiences of others either renewing theirs or those interested in applying for one the first time however, most that insist on commenting are neither, hence their input is rather meaningless.

[Aussie1978]

Question: Is the retirement visa better or buying the Thai Elite visa ?

The Elite visa seems less of a hassle and comes with other perks.

Thoughts ?

[Dodger]

Question: Is the retirement visa better or buying the Thai Elite visa ?

The Elite visa seems less of a hassle and comes with other perks.

Thoughts ?

If by chance you can arrange to have 65,000 THB deposited in a Thai bank on a consistent basis after retirement I would recommend doing the routine annual visa extension. If you do this it would be better to obtain the visa in your home country (O-Visa) otherwise you will have to have proof of heath insurance as well if you apply for the visa in Thailand (O-A Visa).

If you can't comply with the 65,000 THB/month scheme, then it's a matter of weighing out the inconvenience of maintaining 800k of your savings in a Thai bank to get your visa renewed each year - or spending the big bucks for the convenience offered by the Elite Visa.

[francois]

If by chance you can arrange to have 65,000 THB deposited in a Thai bank on a consistent basis after retirement I would recommend doing the routine annual visa extension. If you do this it would be better to obtain the visa in your home country (O-Visa) otherwise you will have to have proof of heath insurance as well if you apply for the visa in Thailand (O-A Visa).

If you can't comply with the 65,000 THB/month scheme, then it's a matter of weighing out the inconvenience of maintaining 800k of your savings in a Thai bank to get your visa renewed each year - or spending the big bucks for the convenience offered by the Elite Visa.

Dodger, I believe you are wrong about obtaining an O visa in your home country and an O-A visa in Thailand. It is best/easiest to get an O visa in Thailand with no need for health insurance. The O-A visa is normally gotten in home country and requires health insurance.
Also I would think it is more convenient to maintain 800,00o Baht in a Thai bank (assuming you have 800,000 Baht) than monthly deposits of 65,000 Baht which must be shown as internationally transfers.

[billyhouston]

Up here in Chiang Mai, it seems that you can come in either on a Visa Waiver or a Tourist Visa (single or multiple) and then convert to a NON-O. This can then become an extension of stay. Personally I wouldn't risk the Visa Waiver route from a time perspective, but the Tourist Visa way is very straightforward assuming that you have, or can have, Bht800,000 in a Thai account.

[Dodger]

Dodger, I believe you are wrong about obtaining an O visa in your home country and an O-A visa in Thailand.

Opps...

Sorry for the confusion... I had that backwards.

Good catch.

[maump]

The catch 22 I keep seeing is the Thai bank account. You need to be resident with lease to get an account, you need to have an account with 800k for XX months to get a Visa. so you need to have a visa to get an account, you need an account to get a visa.

what is the timeline/method for this that I am missing?

[Dodger]

The catch 22 I keep seeing is the Thai bank account. You need to be resident with lease to get an account, you need to have an account with 800k for XX months to get a Visa. so you need to have a visa to get an account, you need an account to get a visa.

what is the timeline/method for this that I am missing?

A bank account is easy to obtain but sometimes requires a bit of patience.

Just select the bank where you want to have your account...if they refuse to open one for you because you're not a resident just go back a day later and talk to a different bank agent, or just go to a different branch of the same bank. Just like everything else in Thailand, no two people interpret the rules the same way.

I was turned down twice at Kasikorn Bank years ago - and the third time I walked into the very same branch they opened my account without batting an eye. Typical Thailand!

Years later I opened a second account at Bangkok Bank and they never even asked if I was a resident.

TIT

[2lz2p]

The catch 22 I keep seeing is the Thai bank account. You need to be resident with lease to get an account, you need to have an account with 800k for XX months to get a Visa. so you need to have a visa to get an account, you need an account to get a visa.

what is the timeline/method for this that I am missing?

If you already have a Non-Immigrant Visa and are applying for a one year retirement extension, then the 800k must have been on deposit 2 months before your application at Immigration.

But, if you entered Visa Exempt or on a Tourist Visa and are applying for a Non-Immigrant O Visa for retirement, the 800k only has to be on deposit with no time period required (this is at Chonburi (Pattaya) Immigration, it could be different at other Immigration Offices). When the Visa is approved, you will receive a 90 day permission to stay from the date of issue. After 60 days, you can apply for the one year extension - by that time, the 800k will have been on deposit the required 60 days to qualify for the extension.

[Gaybutton]

I did not wade through all the posts here, so if this already has been covered, my apologies.

There is another way to get both a Thai bank account and the retirement visa if you are having any difficulty getting them on your own. That is to use a reputable visa service. They can also get you a driving license if you need it.

I always recommend Mots Services. They are reputable, reliable, and reasonably priced. I suggest checking them out. Everyone I know who has used them has been greatly pleased and happy with the results.

Even I intend to use them next time I need to renew my driving license. I have always done it on my own, but it is a major pain and hassle. Mots does the whole thing for you and all you have to do is show up to take the vision and reaction time tests. Their fee is 3000 baht - less than you probably would spend for one evening in a go-go bar paying for your drinks, "drink for boy", the off fee, and the boy's tip - to me well worth it to be relieved of all the hassle.

https://www.mots-services.com

[bkkmfj2648]

I always recommend Mots Services. They are reputable, reliable, and reasonably priced. I suggest checking them out. Everyone I know who has used them has been greatly pleased and happy with the results.

https://www.mots-services.com

Thanks to GayButton - I have used Mots Services. In fact, I just returned from their office this morning - as I need to do my first 90 day report with immigration. The first one needs to be done manually and then successive 90 day reports can be done online - which I will attempt to do 90 days from now.

I have successfully used Mots Services for:
- Non "O" retirement visa,
- Open Thai bank account with Bangkok Bank,
- Obtaining my Thai motorcycle driving license

This morning we are starting the process to convert my Hungarian car driving license to a Thai car driving license.