Thailand. A nice place to visit, BUT......

[bucknaway]

Just how welcoming are the Thai people to those who relocate to Thailand?

I ask this from reading many message boards where men and women have moved to Thailand and treated as if they should be seen and not heard.

It is almost as if each day is a battle for them to be seen as a equal person and not an ATM to be withdrawn from till its empty.

Today when I was at the gym and telling others about my coming trip, one guy asked me if I would move to Thailand. I told him no. Because Thailand loves visitors and once you move there your not a visitor anymore.

Am I wrong? Some of you guys live in Thailand. How welcome do you feel there?

More welcome than I feel back home. But some here will say I'm wearing rose-colored spectacles.

[bucknaway]

Yeah, but are you focusing on the gay aspect or are you talking "General" acceptance/welcoming?

General aspect.

BUT there are things far more important to your race/nationality when it comes to how you will be treated in Thailand. How you dress, speak, and move, for instance, how you live, groom yourself, and what kind of people you associate with.

Many of the foreigners who come here and gripe about feeling unwelcome dress poorly, make no effort to speak Thai (or speak a low-class bar version), have poor grooming habits, move and generally behave in an aggressive, non-Thai way, and hang around with "fringe" elements of Thai society. Thai people do not automatically give respect to anyone -- whether Thai or foreigner. But if you make an effort to conform to societal standards, I think you will find that your race/nationality makes little difference to the way you are treated.

... an outsider. But the dangers are not that so much (since gays are naturally outsiders, per Camus' novel of that name) as having not enough to do to prevent boredom and ennui, and eventually alcoholism. If you can develop a circle of friends in the same way as you have at home, that can help but it's never enough. The really sad cases end up in Pattaya, talking to themselves (through the help of modern technology, now on the Internet) eg. Miss Marple's monologue on The Bog of Shame, and eventually throw themselves off the balcony of their reducing-in-value high-rise condominium

I do not feel like an "outsider".

[UncleSam]

That explains a lot about your posting.

Maybe that's why your family kept moving as soon as you left for school in the morning. :bounce:

If only. As it is, I've got to deal with them visiting several times a year.

In a number of practical respects you will always be treated as an outsider in Thailand. You cannot own land in your own name, you cannot own a majority stake in a Thai company (even if you set it up from scratch), you will usually have to get a Thai guarantor to get a phone, internet etc, and there will always be an element of uncertainty about your future right to stay in the country (rules can and do change, and are likely to become more restrictive if Thailand becomes more prosperous in future).

As to how you are treated by Thai people, this of course varies. As Boygeenyus says, it depends in part on how you behave. Many farang are treated with a good deal more respect than they deserve. If you act politely and dress well, you are mostly treated well. However, the bad behavior of other farangs can also affect how you are treated - there is an element of racism in this, of course, but it exists. Also, among some of the Thai middle classes, there is a deeper resentment of foreigners, perhaps because they are perceived as having money but no class.

On the whole, however, it is only the uncertainty over your future right of abode that is any real problem. The other practical issues can be worked around, and most Thai people (who are working class) will treat you very nicely (except the small minority who are robbing or killing you, of course)

Just how welcoming are the Thai people to those who relocate to Thailand?
Today when I was at the gym and telling others about my coming trip, one guy asked me if I would move to Thailand. I told him no. Because Thailand loves visitors and once you move there your not a visitor anymore.
Am I wrong? Some of you guys live in Thailand. How welcome do you feel there?

You will be treated as you treat Thais.

I have worked for a company in Bangkok for many years and 99% of the large staff ar Thai.

So many ex-pats straight or gay make their social life revolve within the Farang communities. There only contact with Thais is either at work or when they hit the bars.

For myself, I avoid bars like the plague, I socialise with Thai friends, take part in events arranged by the company, visit Thai colleagues at their homes for meals and they likewise visit me. I shop in the areas that Thais shop, not the usual tourist shopping areas. I spent a few years mastering how to speak Thai and then went onto learning to read and write Thai.

I do not 'look down' on Thais as so many Farangs do, if a job needs doing at work I will happily do it if I am able to - I do not call a Thai to to it for me.

I will never be treated as a Thai and neither will any non-Thai. However I am treated with respect and I return that respect. As Boygeenus has said, so many Farangs come here and act like the slobs that they would at home. I certainly do not go around screaming my sexuality which many of the gay farangs here do seemingly to impress the Thais when all they are in fact doing is holding themselves up to ridicule.

Being a Farang does not give anyone a God given right to feel superior to Thais which is another mistake that many Farangs make and try to impress on the Thais. Declaring their supposed wealth to try and impress has the opposite effect although many Thais will naturally try to relive you of some of that cash if you are stupid enough to boast about it.

Finally all the latest designer clothes, shoes and perfumes do NOT disguise the fact that Farangs are reluctant to take a proper showers during the day. You may grab a new outfit to wear and impress when you hit the town but the fact that you still ( to a Thai) smell like a sewer will not be disguised. Farangs can learn a great deal about hygiene from Thais and in doing so learn that standing in a shower for 10 minutes without bothering to actually make sure you remove body odour is not hygiene.

Its a schizo situation. True, things will go smoother if you try to conform to Thai cultural standards. But almost all farangs are only as good as their last visa stamp. So, why bother conforming too much? I can feel quite at home in Thailand, but there is always the awareness of the potential impermanence of it. Reminds me of when I lived on a major earthquake fault line in California. Another thought, when I was a kid I lived in Boston awhile. It was clear to me from talking to the local "blue blood Boston brahmins" that there was no way ever I could fit in and be one of them, had to be born into it. So this kind of thing isn't only an expat phenom.

If you enjoy Thailand, I would move to Thailand if you can, which I do, and which I can.

But almost all farangs are only as good as their last visa stamp. So, why bother conforming too much? .

Because Thaiquila it is showing respect to your hosts.

It is a shame that your typical American arrogance shows through yet again.

You complain frequently about adverse comments about your fellow countrymen but it is the style of arrogance that you display that brings forth the reputation that many of you have gained throughout the civilised world.

But almost all farangs are only as good as their last visa stamp. So, why bother conforming too much? .

Because Thaiquila it is showing respect to your hosts.

It is a shame that your typical American arrogance shows through yet again.

You complain frequently about adverse comments about your fellow countrymen but it is the style of arrogance that you display that brings forth the reputation that many of you have gained throughout the civilised world.
I show plenty of respect. But anyone who doesn't realize that as a farang in xenophobic Thailand you are living on thin ice, is in my opinion INSANE and suffering from a form of the Stockholm syndrome. I am so NOT a typical American you don't even want to go there. Most Americans don't even own a passport. I detest the Americans you hate probably MORE than you. Just pisses me off that Euros lump us all in the same bag.

But almost all farangs are only as good as their last visa stamp. So, why bother conforming too much? .

Because Thaiquila it is showing respect to your hosts.

It is a shame that your typical American arrogance shows through yet again.

You complain frequently about adverse comments about your fellow countrymen but it is the style of arrogance that you display that brings forth the reputation that many of you have gained throughout the civilised world.
I show plenty of respect. But anyone who doesn't realize that as a farang in xenophobic Thailand you are living on thin ice, is in my opinion INSANE and suffering from a form of the Stockholm syndrome. I am so NOT a typical American you don't even want to go there. Most Americans don't even own a passport. I detest the Americans you hate probably MORE than you. Just pisses me off that Euros lump us all in the same bag.

The Americans that are 'lumped into the same bag' are the ones that do travel and have given the impression of arrogance to those that have come into contact with them.

I deal with a lot of American citizens in my work both directly and indirectly and I would say that a good 90% of those are both arrogant and appear impervious to the views of others.

Maybe you more elderly Yanks have come to learn that you do not rule the world that your nation is doing so much to destroy.

This all sounds very pleasant. If only just taking a Ten minute wash with soap and water would be enough to make you feel welcome in a place like Honk Kong. I believe gay ex-pats in Thailand have a relatively good deal compared.

Thai gays are generally open to westerners, but Chinese Honk Kong gays are terrified of them, to the point of discrimination. I genuinely put it down to loosing face due to the extraordinary discrepancy in penis size between westerners and the Chinese.

Westerners here are it's true very fond of making fun of the supposedly Chinese lack of taste and penchant for an extremely limited set of clich├й'd luxury goods, Rolex, Porsche/Mercedies Cognac etc. But this is not the reason Hong Kong gay Chinese only go for sticky rice. It is most definitely the penis issue, all other insecurities fall away when they are standing with their pants around their ankles facing any-thing longer than three inches. Believe me the number of immediately sullen faces I have had to endure due to the size issue is quite laughable, and this is just in the changing room at the tennis club. It matters not what you look like. The odd freak with a firm 4-inches will be more than ready to face your values head on.

I am sure this makes all the difference living in Thailand. It certainly does going to visit.

Ps,any-one going to the pride in Singapore?

...It is most definitely the penis issue, all other insecurities fall away when they are standing with their pants around their ankles facing any-thing longer than three inches. Believe me the number of immediately sullen faces I have had to endure due to the size issue is quite laughable, and this is just in the changing room at the tennis club...

Aunty will be asking for those pic's again Cedric, brace yourself! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

That will make it all too easy! Aunty needs a good chase.

Thaiquila,

How do you feel that farangs in Thailand are somehow on "thin ice"? To be deported from Thailand you have to do something fairly extreme.

Thaiquila,

How do you feel that farangs in Thailand are somehow on "thin ice"? To be deported from Thailand you have to do something fairly extreme.
Visa rules change all the time. The path to any kind of secure long term visa status, such as permanent residence, is too difficult for all but a tiny percentage of farangs.

The path to any kind of secure long term visa status, such as permanent residence, is too difficult for all but a tiny percentage of farangs.

Name a country which you know that issues / gives a permanent residence to any foreigners quickly and easily.

The path to any kind of secure long term visa status, such as permanent residence, is too difficult for all but a tiny percentage of farangs.

Name a country which you know that issues / gives a permanent residence to any foreigners quickly and easily.
Mexico is about 100 times easier and quicker than Thailand. Argentina is also much easier and quicker.
None in Asia I can think of. Asians are very racist. Face it.

yet... you still here

No country in the world has visa rules that don't change, or allows you to reside permanently as a "tourist".

If you want to take up permanent residence somewhere, and what to feel secure, you have to make the effort to validate your status. As long as the visa run is an option, though, many slackers who live in Thailand full time can't be bothered. It is NOT that difficult. You want the sense of security, you do it. If you're too lazy, you live without.

No country in the world has visa rules that don't change, or allows you to reside permanently as a "tourist".

If you want to take up permanent residence somewhere, and what to feel secure, you have to make the effort to validate your status. As long as the visa run is an option, though, many slackers who live in Thailand full time can't be bothered. It is NOT that difficult. You want the sense of security, you do it. If you're too lazy, you live without.
I am sorry, you are wrong. Getting permanent residency in Thailand is NOT REALISTIC for the vast majority of farangs. In a country like Argentina, all you have to do is stick around for five years legally, and you are a shoe in. Long term expats in Argie usually go for the status because it is so easy (relatively). The Thais have made it hard, very hard. Be in denial if you want.

Sorry, YOU are wrong. Stay legally in Thailand for three years, and permanent residence is all but a shoe-in. I've never known ANYONE who has applied to be turned down. Not a single person. I did it -- on my own, without any lawyer or other greedy "handler" -- and it could not have been simpler or more efficient. Retirement is also very easy if you are the right age.

Sorry, YOU are wrong. Stay legally in Thailand for three years, and permanent residence is all but a shoe-in. I've never known ANYONE who has applied to be turned down. Not a single person. I did it -- on my own, without any lawyer or other greedy "handler" -- and it could not have been simpler or more efficient. Retirement is also very easy if you are the right age.
You are FULL OF IT:


The Thai Immigration Bureau has recently (october 2003) announced quotas for all expatriates applying for residence permits at 100 persons per nationality.
Thaivisa.com

I have it on good authority that the ONLY nationalities where quotas have become an issue (i.e., where more people applied than there were positions available) are Chinese and Indian. No qualified American, Brit, or other European has ever been turned down because the 100/year quota was reached.

Face it, Thaiquila, you're a lazy slacker. You want it all handed on a plate for you. It ain't gonna happen, so you better just continue with your visa runs and learn to live with your insecurity.

PS: find me someone on Thai Visa who has had their permanent residence application turned down because the quota was filled. Just one. Please.

I have it on good authority that the ONLY nationalities where quotas have become an issue (i.e., where more people applied than there were positions available) are Chinese and Indian. No qualified American, Brit, or other European has ever been turned down because the 100/year quota was reached.

Face it, Thaiquila, you're a lazy slacker. You want it all handed on a plate for you. It ain't gonna happen, so you better just continue with your visa runs and learn to live with your insecurity.
Actually, will be on a retirement visa soon. Thanks for your concern.

And how hard was it for you to get that retirement visa, Thaiquila?

And how hard was it for you to get that retirement visa, Thaiquila?
Still working on it. I don't believe you can get perm residence from a retirement visa.

You've almost got a retirement visa in hand, so what are you griping about? Won't a retirement visa make you feel "secure" enough? Maybe go out and get a blanket like Linus, so you can carry it around while sucking your thumb.

[allieb]

The path to any kind of secure long term visa status, such as permanent residence, is too difficult for all but a tiny percentage of farangs.

Name a country which you know that issues / gives a permanent residence to any foreigners quickly and easily.

Chuck Wow

All a Brit has to do is set up home in Thailand for two years with his Thai Lover or any other nationality. Prove that he has lived together in a relationship akin to marriage. Proof is easy you need 2 or 3 witnesses to vouch for you. Letters addressed to the both of you at the same address some pics of you together over the two years etc. nothing to difficult. A joint bank account helps

The Thai or other national will be given a residence entry visa to the UK from the British Embassy in BKK. After five years in the UK will get a British Passport. He will even be allowed to keep his old passport and become dual national. Is that permanent and easy enough for you.

It's pitty Thailand doesn't recipricate

You could become a permanent resident of Thailand in the same amount of time.

[allieb]

Boygenious

With a passport as well.

I know str8 people who are married To Thais and have kids who can,t get
permanent status, they get residence of a kind. They even have to have the house registered in the Thai partners name and rely on the continued devotion of the this partner to stay.

We've been through the land ownership thing a thousand times. It is what it is. No one says you have to own a house.

We were talking about living and staying in Thailand for the long term -- which is patently easy.

How long to become a permanent resident/citizen of Saudi Arabia, Ali G?

[TrongpaiExpat]

Because Thaiquila it is showing respect to your hosts.

It is a shame that your typical American arrogance shows through yet again.



NaughtyButNice: What an incredible ignorant thing to say! Arrogance comes in all Nationalities. You need to rework that Nice in your name.

All a Brit has to do is set up home in Thailand for two years with his Thai Lover or any other nationality. Prove that he has lived together in a relationship akin to marriage. Proof is easy you need 2 or 3 witnesses to vouch for you. Letters addressed to the both of you at the same address some pics of you together over the two years etc. nothing to difficult. A joint bank account helps

The Thai or other national will be given a residence entry visa to the UK from the British Embassy in BKK. Is that permanent and easy enough for you.

Sounds very easy, as always in theory. But in reality, I wonder how many applications have been successful and how many have been turned down. Do you have figures ?.

( OK, I heard of one incidence, trickyrich (a member here) 's Thai boyfriend has been successful ).

Because Thaiquila it is showing respect to your hosts.

It is a shame that your typical American arrogance shows through yet again.



NaughtyButNice: What an incredible ignorant thing to say! Arrogance comes in all Nationalities. You need to rework that Nice in your name.

Of course it does.

But the arrogance of most Yanks surpasses that of other nations.

The original question was about how Farangs are treated in Thailand and most Thais will tell you that the Americans shine through when it comes to displaying arrogance.

Because Thaiquila it is showing respect to your hosts.

It is a shame that your typical American arrogance shows through yet again.



NaughtyButNice: What an incredible ignorant thing to say! Arrogance comes in all Nationalities. You need to rework that Nice in your name.

Of course it does.

But the arrogance of most Yanks surpasses that of other nations.

The original question was about how Farangs are treated in Thailand and most Thais will tell you that the Americans shine through when it comes to displaying arrogance.

Really now? Most Thais I meet tell me that Americans have better personal hygiene, are more gregarious, and far friendlier than any other nationals. Oh well.

Because Thaiquila it is showing respect to your hosts.

It is a shame that your typical American arrogance shows through yet again.



NaughtyButNice: What an incredible ignorant thing to say! Arrogance comes in all Nationalities. You need to rework that Nice in your name.

Of course it does.

But the arrogance of most Yanks surpasses that of other nations.

The original question was about how Farangs are treated in Thailand and most Thais will tell you that the Americans shine through when it comes to displaying arrogance.

Really now? Most Thais I meet tell me that Americans have better personal hygiene, are more gregarious, and far friendlier than any other nationals. Oh well.

The words 'tongue in cheek' spring to mind :bounce:

[Aunty]

...It is most definitely the penis issue, all other insecurities fall away when they are standing with their pants around their ankles facing any-thing longer than three inches. Believe me the number of immediately sullen faces I have had to endure due to the size issue is quite laughable, and this is just in the changing room at the tennis club...

Aunty will be asking for those pic's again Cedric, brace yourself! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Indeed fatman indeed! He got my juices flowing.

Oh Cedric when I read your post there was a mighty stirring deep in my loins; a longing in my heart, a giddy hope in my brain, and a hunger deep deep in my frock. (Ok for you I'll wear pants, but I still keep the pearls! They look really good with the latex bodice and whip)

Baby somethingтАЩs popped up and it's pointing at Hong Kong and guess what, it's got your name on it! You know there's nothing your Aunty likes more than hot a young man with a substantial endowerment. Makes her all moist.

I know what you mean about the little Chinese pee pee. You know as an international slapper and aging minx I've tried to do my bit to further the relationship between our two great nations, China and New Zealand. To achieve that end over the years I've had more than just a few young Chinese men clutched firmly in my embrace. Quite frankly you know I've lost count of the number of young Chinese boys whoтАЩve parked their car in my garage or who have chowed down on my tasty dum sums. But then that's just the kind of girl I am! Forgetful.

Well in my bedroom journeys through the provinces and cities of China, I have found the boysтАЩ from Peking inevitably well hung, genial and quite quite charming (must have been all those old eunuchтАЩs throughout the centuries exerting a positive selection pressure on the cock size and personality in Beijing). One doesnтАЩt have rip roaring pounding sex with these boys so much as one slips into a cool languid pool of erotic pleasure that lingers and drifts and dreams and feels something like a smooth lithe cat that runs it body against your leg, and you never quite know which of you is getting the most pleasure. You or the cat. Northern Chinese were generally well equipped, but the southerners, especially those from Guangdong and also Taiwan. Well what the hell happened to them? (What do you think Taipei 101 is all about? ItтАЩs purely a mass hysteria, an attempt to compensate for male Taiwanese small penises). So I can quite understand your experience in Hong Kong, and the sticky rice anti-foreign nature of the locals. ItтАЩs not penis envy of the Guilo they have in Hong Kong darling, its penis shame. So the next time you go to your country club stand there in all your full naked deliciousness and let your fabulous fat cock fall full and free, and take a victory lap around the room. Leave the fake Prada and Vittuon in your wake, left to hide the little pee peesтАЩ, and let the local men cast eyes of longing and lust upon your desired manly frame. Let your full ripe fruits swing from side to side with every step Cedric my boy, and donтАЩt forget the most important thing of all. Send me the pics.

[allieb]

We've been through the land ownership thing a thousand times. It is what it is. No one says you have to own a house.

We were talking about living and staying in Thailand for the long term -- which is patently easy.

How long to become a permanent resident/citizen of Saudi Arabia, Ali G?

Boygeenious

It is impossible to become a citizen of Saudi Arabia even foreign nationals who were born here and lived here for 40 years. I have been living here for 20 years and could be chucked out at any time (eg just for getting caught drinking moonhine). Nobody in their right mind woud want to become a citizen. Saudi Arabia is a shit hole. but a shit hole full of money. Its nice to bring that money to places like Thailand and spend it. A lot of free sex but to have a good time, quantity is the name of the game not quality, To get the same satifaction from one Thai fuck you would need 10 Arabs.So who cares about being a permanent resident or citizen here

You've almost got a retirement visa in hand, so what are you griping about? Won't a retirement visa make you feel "secure" enough? Maybe go out and get a blanket like Linus, so you can carry it around while sucking your thumb.
I would like it to be automatic to have perm residence after 5 years on a retirement visa. From my understanding, a retirement visa does not qualify for a perm residence application. So no upgrade path.

[Dboy]

But the arrogance of most Yanks surpasses that of other nations.

The original question was about how Farangs are treated in Thailand and most Thais will tell you that the Americans shine through when it comes to displaying arrogance.

I'd say Brits are worse, but only because of the football hooligans. They turn any bar into A Clockwork Orange.

Dboy

But the arrogance of most Yanks surpasses that of other nations.

The original question was about how Farangs are treated in Thailand and most Thais will tell you that the Americans shine through when it comes to displaying arrogance.

I'd say Brits are worse, but only because of the football hooligans. They turn any bar into A Clockwork Orange. Dboy

On the point about football hooligans I agree with you 100%. But that is not arrogance it is sheer stupidity.

You've almost got a retirement visa in hand, so what are you griping about? Won't a retirement visa make you feel "secure" enough? Maybe go out and get a blanket like Linus, so you can carry it around while sucking your thumb.
I would like it to be automatic to have perm residence after 5 years on a retirement visa. From my understanding, a retirement visa does not qualify for a perm residence application. So no upgrade path.

How many years of life do most people have after five years on a retirement visa? Hardly worth "upgrading" at that point.

A straight friend of mine has lived in Thailand for over ten years. He had a house built in a rural area some way inland from Hua Hin. He was accepted as one of the community very quickly by the locals even though he was the only Farang for miles. However when he visits areas where tourists are common then he is perceived as being one of them and, ironically, it is actually harder to be accepted.

When his Thai wife left him the local women took his side and quickly began to visit with a succession of eligible young women they thought suitable as a replacement. He politely declined their efforts on his behalf and remains a single Farang in the midst of an otherwise totally Thai community with no problems.

However when I visit my boyfriend's village I am treated as an object of curiosity and get stared at wherever I go. I just haven't visited enough or spent long enough there to become familiar so I can't say if I would ever become fully accepted.

Even if I'm not accepted as such I am always "included". It's assumed that I will go to the Buddhist temple for ceremonies, for example, and if my boyfriend goes anywhere without me then he is questioned as to why I'm not with him. I've never been made to feel unwelcome or slighted in any way so even though I physically stick out a mile I feel more comfortable than Thais I know in the UK.

There's a few more years to go before I might begin to think about moving to Thailand. If I ever did I'd try it for a while on a temporary basis before I made any decision on a permanent move.

You've almost got a retirement visa in hand, so what are you griping about? Won't a retirement visa make you feel "secure" enough? Maybe go out and get a blanket like Linus, so you can carry it around while sucking your thumb.
I would like it to be automatic to have perm residence after 5 years on a retirement visa. From my understanding, a retirement visa does not qualify for a perm residence application. So no upgrade path.

How many years of life do most people have after five years on a retirement visa? Hardly worth "upgrading" at that point.
I am retiring at 50. Hopefully at least 25. Did you know that when people live to 65 they mostly live to 85?
Hardly worth upgrading, indeed.
Stop defending the parts of Thailand that are indefensible.
Mexico offers retirees easy perm residence and also participation in their national health care system!
I prefer Thailand though, warts and xenophobia, and all. Just not into self DELUSION like some.

No one is delusional, except maybe yourself if you think Thailand is a difficult place by world standards for a foreigner to plop down and live forever. I did not say it is the EASIEST place in the world -- just that it is very, very easy. Tens of thousands of foreigners live here their entire lives as "tourists", with just a day trip to the border every once in a while to inconvenience them and not so much as a sideways glance from immigration. Compare that with the difficulty a Thai has visiting the US or UK just ONCE as a tourist. I'd say you've got it pretty goddamned easy, despite all your blubbering.

Oh, by the way...PR's in Thailand also participate in the national health care system. I have my 30 baht gold card to prove it. And I bet the Mexican system is every bit as terrible as the Thai one is. And there's no anti-gringo xenophobia in Mexico, I bet, either...

To the person who sent me a private message, I've tried unsuccessfully to reply through the private message system. This was what I was trying to send:

Yes, I mean body movement / body language. Just watch how Thais move some time. When walking by someone, they automatically bow their heads a bit. They do not barge around in an aggressive manner, as if they're the big kahuna; they do not point at people when talking to them and trying to make a point, and they don't lean back in a chair with their legs crossed and their hands behind their head. It is very subtle, but I very often see Thai people cringe at farangs just because of the way they project themselves through body language.

No one is delusional, except maybe yourself if you think Thailand is a difficult place by world standards for a foreigner to plop down and live forever. I did not say it is the EASIEST place in the world -- just that it is very, very easy. Tens of thousands of foreigners live here their entire lives as "tourists", with just a day trip to the border every once in a while to inconvenience them and not so much as a sideways glance from immigration. Compare that with the difficulty a Thai has visiting the US or UK just ONCE as a tourist. I'd say you've got it pretty goddamned easy, despite all your blubbering.

Oh, by the way...PR's in Thailand also participate in the national health care system. I have my 30 baht gold card to prove it. And I bet the Mexican system is every bit as terrible as the Thai one is. And there's no anti-gringo xenophobia in Mexico, I bet, either...
We are not talking about the US or western Europe. We are talking about the third world tropical shitholes that we all love so much.

Retirees can't PR. Glad you have it. You are in a tiny minority because it is so RESTRICTED! And actually, have heard good things about the Mexican system.

[Dboy]

On the point about football hooligans I agree with you 100%. But that is not arrogance it is sheer stupidity.

Yeah, as an American I must agree about the arrogance..just look at US international politics for confirmation. We seem to have a world domination fetish at the moment, which is why I'd love to relocate outta here.

When I was at Songkran this past April, I had the misfortune to meet a very obnoxious cigar-smoking American who would loudly declare US superiority in all things. In addition to being loud, he only ate overpriced farang food and liked to point at people with his huge-ass feet. Was quite embarassing to be around him, so I ditched him as soon as politely possible.


Dboy

Yeah, its always the OTHER Americans. Yes, many Americans are very loud and obnoxious. And many aren't. As far as foreign policy, bush only enjoys a 30 percent approval rating now and most of the anger is against his failed foreign policy, so again, a crude generalization.

As an American, I agree that many americans can be truly arrogant and obnoxous. The US is almost two countries. The Two Liberal coasts.. and the "square states" in the middle.. the Bush supporters. But to imply that the american gay tourists/expats behave worse than those of other countries is silly. I have witnessed some truly horrible behavior mostly by germans (The Thai boys even have a nickname for the loud, drunken oversized Germans at the bars and beach .. "FGs" (Fat Germans) . The british do seem to be better behaved. LOL.) I'm curious as to "Naughty but Nice's country of origin". He attempts to be rational, but there appears to be some deep seated hatred of all things american bubbling just under the surface.

These days, it is, rational, to have a deep seated hatred for all things American, I believe your country now has fewer genuine allies than any other time in it's history. The minority always suffers.

I agree aunty it seems to be an Island phenomenon,and vanishes the minute you cross the border.

But no Aunty, just what I don't need to do, a lap of victory in my birthday suit in the face of a cringing bunch of Chinese clitoris swinging country club members, while they dash around the changing room towels flapping wildly in frenzied confusion, not sure whether to clasp their black currents or their rapidly shrinking faces. Do you want me black listed for ever?
If for one moment it sees fit to swing loose as I grasp for my underwear after showering, I could ruin a whole day for any number of people, I am not American. Some would not talk to me for weeks after. So I try and be as discreet and diplomatic as it will allow.

One thing on my side are the kids they seem to find it fascinating (due to a small gap in their upbringing) and lock onto it with their eyes like a kitten might to a dangling toy. Of course I am not into that sort of thing, so I growl at them till they back off to a respectable distance.

In a number of practical respects you will always be treated as an outsider in Thailand. You cannot own land in your own name, you cannot own a majority stake in a Thai company (even if you set it up from scratch), you will usually have to get a Thai guarantor to get a phone, internet etc, and there will always be an element of uncertainty about your future right to stay in the country (rules can and do change, and are likely to become more restrictive if Thailand becomes more prosperous in future)That is not really my point. Thai society is a traditional hierarchy. Outsiders don't fit. That is why we often end up being an appendage to the patronage system, bastardized as "walking ATM". Then Thais can recognize where we fit in. Otherwise ...

And of course homosexuality is only accepted by a tiny, tiny minority of Thais (see my home page under Thailand for details - http://au.geocities.com/homintern)

If only just taking a Ten minute wash with soap and water would be enough to make you feel welcome in a place like Honk KongThis sounds suspiciously like what is elsewhere known as a "Greek shower". The steps are -
1 Get up
2 Don't bathe or shower
3 Put on clothes
4 Spray generously with scent

Name a country which you know that issues / gives a permanent residence to any foreigners quickly and easilyNew Zealand. To a slightly lesser extent, Australia. "Any" is the sticking point. However a number of countries have clear, transparent and foreigner-friendly schemes for retirees - Malaysia being one. "clear", "transparent" and "foreigner-friendly" are not words readily applied to Thailand in any context

Never heard of a Greek shower, they take a dive into the Aegean and emerge all salty and delectable. Sure it's not a French drench you are referring too?

So who cares about being a permanent resident or citizen hereI have lived here since 1990. Since I travel frequently on business I never stay more than the visa period and so I am one of boygeenyus' most reviled people (apart from paedophiles, drug dealers, sex tourists, ...)
the community of outcasts, hangers-on, and visa-runnersbut I would never, ever, ever consider applying for a long-term status since it means absolutely nothing except a less-frequent renewal of status than an annual retirement visa. Everything is at the whim of the Thai authorities since Thailand does not consistently practice the rule of law. Even those who have "permanent" residence have to apply every five years to have it renewed. That is, the permanent resident status has to be renewed, essentially at the whim of the Immigration Department. Contrast that with Malaysia, where the five-year retirement visa is a visa (one-year in Thailand) not a con job designed solely to extract foreign money, and First World countries where "permanent residence" means permanent residence (unless it is abandoned by persistent absence)

Never heard of a Greek shower, they take a dive into the Aegean and emerge all salty and delectableI think you're referring to the fetta cheese they cultivate under their foreskins

[travelerjim]

Thai Residency Visa....requirements per Thai Immigration: as posted on Thai Visa Forum...

(Note that reference is made to 2003 and 2004...not updated on Thai Visa Forum)

http://www.thaivisa.com/300.0.html .

Residency (Residence permit)

Advantages of Permanent Residence in Thailand

There are a number of advantages to holding permanent resident status in Thailand:

It allows the holder to live permanently in Thailand, with no requirement to apply for an extension of temporary stay.

In addition to the permanent residence book, an alien registration book will be issued, which is the equivalent of the ID card held by Thais.

A permanent resident can have his/her name included on a house registration document.

Obtaining a work permit is easier for a permanent resident than for a non-resident, but you still need to have a work permit if working.

A permanent resident also has a number of other privileges such as, for example, being able to:

(a) buy a condominium without being required to transfer money from abroad;

(b) apply for naturalization in accordance with the law concerned;

(c) have Thai nationality granted to children who are born in Thailand;

(d) become a director of a public company; and (e) apply for an extension of stay or permanent residence for non-Thai family members.

The annual quota for granting permanent residency in Thailand is a maximum of 100 persons per country. The Interior Minister is responsible for issuing the announcement each year that the quota is open for submission of applications, usually from October to the end of December.
The Immigration Commission has the power to define all regulations concerning permanent residency. The Immigration Bureau is the agency that handles all procedures concerning permanent residency applications.

Qualifications of an applicant:

1. An applicant must have received permission for yearly stays in Thailand on a non-immigrant visa for at least of three years prior to the submission of an application for permanent residency. Holders of multiple NON-Immigrant visas can not appy. You must have 3 un-broken yearly extensions in order to qualify.

2. An applicant must be holding a non-immigrant visa at the time of submitting an application.

Documents required

The list of required documents depends on the category under which the application is made.

Fees:

Application for a residence permit

7,600

Approval of a residence permit (payable on receipt of residence book)

191,400

Approval of a residence permit (payable on receipt of residence book) for a foreigner married to a Thai, the spouse of a resident, and any of their children who have not reached the status of a Thai juristic person (i.e., unmarried children aged below 20 years)

95,700

Application for a residence permit

7,600

Approval of a residence permit (payable on receipt of residence book)

191,400

Approval of a residence permit (payable on receipt of residence book) for a foreigner married to a Thai, the spouse of a resident, and any of their children who have not reached the status of a Thai juristic person (i.e., unmarried children aged below 20 years)

95,700

The Thai Immigration Bureau has recently (october 2003) announced quotas for all expatriates applying for residence permits at 100 persons per nationality. All foreigners may qualify to apply for a residence permit if he/she

1. Holds a passport of his/her current nationality, which was granted a Non-Immigrant visa and the individual has been permitted to stay in Thailand for at least 3 consecutive years on a 1-year visa extension basis up to the application submission date.

2. Has personal qualifications that meet one or more of the following categories:

1) Investment category (minumum 3 - 10 Mil. Baht investment in Thailand)

2) Working/ Business category

3) Support a family or Humanity Reasons category: He/she must have relationship with a Thai citizen or an alien who already possesses a residence permit as the

followings:

- A legal husband or wife

- A legal father or mother

- A child who is under 20 years of age up to the submission date of application and must be single

4) Expert / academics category

5) Other categories

Submission period for the Residence permit applications

The applicants can submit the applications once a year. Normally, the opening date for the applications is in December, we recommend to prepare

the required documents 1-2 months earlier. Once the date is announced, the applications can be submitted until the last working day of the year.

The results will be announced in May 2004 and the residence permits will be issued in December 2004.

If approved, a residence blue book is issued to the alien. The foreign resident must register the place of residence in Thailand at the local Amphur Office and obtain a house card. 7 days after receipt of the residence certificate you then apply for an alien book (red book) at the local police station. You must re-register there every year, and the fee is 200 Baht.

The Residency Permit itself never expires, unless revoked. To be able to leave the country and return at will, though, you need to apply each year for a re-entry permit (endorsement) at 1,000 baht (multiple entry). If you don't leave Thailand, you don't need to have an endorement done.

Also, you must present yourself at the police station covering the area where you are resident once every five years for a stamp in your book.

An alien with permanent residency status will be eligible to apply for Thai citizenship after 10 consecutive years under this classification.

TravelerJim

You can quote the regulations until the cows come home but this is Thailand; you find an official who won't enforce the law but his version of it and you have no recourse. And uness things have changed, there's an annual quota for permanent residence - 100 individuals from each country. You may qualify but then the fun starts - how far down the queue am I? An American friend of mine waited three years after he had qualified (and paid his money) before he moved up the queue. Aunty, on the other hand, would probably make it in the first year. By the time you qualify (minimum 3 years) and then get in the queue it could be six or seven years before you finally attain residence status

I love the investment category, 3 - 10 million. Which is it? 3? 10? 100? Typical!

permanent resident status[/u] has to be renewed, essentially at the whim of the Immigration Department.

WRONG.

Permanent residnce status is permanent.

What you are talking about has nothing to do with immigration. Every five years, one simply have your book chopped by your local police department. It is not an application, not something that has to be approved or renewed. It is just to show you are still around and in the same place as before. It is not an opportunity for PR to be lost. Once you have it, you have it.

All a Brit has to do is set up home in Thailand for two years with his Thai Lover or any other nationality. Prove that he has lived together in a relationship akin to marriage. Proof is easy you need 2 or 3 witnesses to vouch for you. Letters addressed to the both of you at the same address some pics of you together over the two years etc. nothing to difficult. A joint bank account helps

The Thai or other national will be given a residence entry visa to the UK from the British Embassy in BKK. Is that permanent and easy enough for you.

Sounds very easy, as always in theory. But in reality, I wonder how many applications have been successful and how many have been turned down. Do you have figures ?.

( OK, I heard of one incidence, trickyrich (a member here) 's Thai boyfriend has been successful ).

From what I remember of posts on TV more than 90% of all applications for visas (not just gay ones but there's no discrimination as long as you satisfy the requirements) are granted at the British Embassy in BKK.

You've almost got a retirement visa in hand, so what are you griping about? Won't a retirement visa make you feel "secure" enough? Maybe go out and get a blanket like Linus, so you can carry it around while sucking your thumb.
I would like it to be automatic to have perm residence after 5 years on a retirement visa. From my understanding, a retirement visa does not qualify for a perm residence application. So no upgrade path.

How many years of life do most people have after five years on a retirement visa? Hardly worth "upgrading" at that point.

As you can get a retirement visa at the age of 50 it could be anything up to 40 years (or more).

As you can get a retirement visa at the age of 50 it could be anything up to 40 years (or more).You forget boygeenyus is an ageist

As you can get a retirement visa at the age of 50 it could be anything up to 40 years (or more).You forget boygeenyus is an ageist

Don't be ridiculous...some of my dearest friends are mothball-smelling old coots.

[Aunty]

As you can get a retirement visa at the age of 50 it could be anything up to 40 years (or more).You forget boygeenyus is an ageist

Don't be ridiculous...some of my dearest friends are mothball-smelling old coots.

Yes but darling we're talking about humans of flesh and blood here, not your collection of teddy bears.

But almost all farangs are only as good as their last visa stamp. So, why bother conforming too much? .

Because Thaiquila it is showing respect to your hosts.

It is a shame that your typical American arrogance shows through yet again.

You complain frequently about adverse comments about your fellow countrymen but it is the style of arrogance that you display that brings forth the reputation that many of you have gained throughout the civilised world.

It is not just Americans. The Brits, Ozzies, Germans, Belgians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Dutch, French, Italians, Swiss and Russians are much worse. And, they all speak a non-preferred variety of English and Thai.

Naughty but Nice - get a grip. Farangs are welcome to Thailand by their own imaginations, and that is all. No one will cry when you leave. We will celebrate with the baht you leave behind and the monks will dance after your cremation. So, please be real.

Do monks dance?

Wow. What a lively post. I never ceased to be amazed when someone asks a simple question on this board how it rapidly denigrates into a melee of off the topic subjects, irrelevancy, bad grammar and spelling, anti-american sentiment (should be compulsory) not to mention downright mudslinging, back stabbing and bitchiness.
Why am I not surprised when a simple opening question such as: " Just how welcoming are the Thai people to those who relocate to Thailand?" evolves into a smorgasbord consisting of teddy bear collections, mothball-smelling old coots and dancing monks?
More of it!
The culinary aspect wasn''t overlooked, either. One thing's for sure, next time I eat out, I won't be ordering a salad with french drench and cuiltivated fetta cheese!

Perhaps an antipodean appetiser though? (Sorry, Aunty, couldn't resist)



http://upload4.postimage.org/784517/larsonCartoon.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/784517/photo_hosting.html)

[Aunty]

What are those things supposed to be, Australians? They look like kangaroos to me.

I'll let you in on a little secret I have about Australia. Apart from 24 hours in 1976, I've never been there. But I always make it a point that when I fly over Aussie to some place interesting, I go into the dunny and I take a big dump.

Now that's what I call neighbourly relations! (Pheeww, no one light a match)

I'll let you in on a little secret I have about Australia. Apart from 24 hours in 1976, I've never been there.Someone from Oz can probably confirm this, but I believe NZers with criminal records are no longer admitted to Australia automatically (somewhat ironic given the place's origins as a British colony). But it's a likely explanation for Aunty's avoidance