New Police Order issued re: Proof of Income - Thai Retirement Visa

[travelerjim]

FYI...Sharing this...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1395920320731833/permalink/2299057760418080/

From Facebook posting by Tod Daniels
Admin of Thai Visa Advice on Facebook

"Okay, I have a draft copy of the Thai language amendments to the Police order 138/2557 concerning the proof of funds when using the income method for extensions of stays based on being over 50, being married to a Thai & raising half-Thai children. :O It was issued on the 21st and is stamped the 26th of Dec.

Now that police order is different from the one 327/2557 in so far as they spell out different things (and the same things different ways). The 138/2557 is the supporting documents and provisos for extensions and 327/2557 is the Criteria and Conditions. You really use them in conjunction with each other but all I have is the first one.

The banked money method is unchanged, the requisite funds in a Thai bank account in your name for the seasoning period before you apply for your extension.

-For countries that still issue the income affidavit they will still be accepted like normal.

-For countries that don't issue them any more you need to show 40K baht (for marriage/raising kids) per month (every month). This can be in the form of tax statements based on employment here in Thailand OR in transfers to a Thai bank account from overseas for 12 months before you apply for your extension and for retirement you need to show 65K baht a month per month (every month) for 12 months before you apply for your extension.

There is a post on the Thai visa forum where someone says the immigration office is going to "work" with people this first year and allow less than a full year's worth of transfers to be shown

BUT

Unfortunately that's not how I'm reading the Thai version. :(

It says for the first year when someone retires they are not obligated to show the 12 months of deposits via bank transfers. They use an example of IF you retire in Oct you only need to show the deposits from Nov on. It doesn't make any reference to an allowance for the first year THIS new amendment takes effect.

I am hoping that in the other police order 327/2557 they will address this because it's the one that lists seasoning of funds etc. Until I get my hands on that one you know as much as I do.

I am sorry if this raises more questions than it answers.."

End of post.

Tj

[Brad the Impala]

Just out of interest, and provoked by the repeated Cigna advertising, I thought that I would check the reviews for this international insurer.

They weren't encouraging. UK Trustpilot had 87% negative reviews. Typical was "fantastic sales team" but "horrible" and "garbage" when it comes to claim. Only anecdotal evidence, but worth bearing in mind.

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/cignaglobal.com

[Smiles]

A sentence I've been looking for lately:
"For countries that still issue the income affidavit they will still be accepted like normal".The Canadian Embassy/Consulate is still issuing Letters of Income.

The other day a Norwegian friend of mine went to Thai Immigration (Hua Hin) and received his 12-month Extension using his Embassy's Letter of Income only. He told me that there was no warning given that "things would be changing soon" (he asked).
Yes, anecdotal for sure.
Yes, the hammer may still fall.
Yes, things may or may not change.

Yada yada yada . . .

[ceejay]

Don't want to be nit-picking Travellerjim, but the Facebook post you quote begins "Okay, I have a draft copy.....". If it's still a draft then you cannot say it has been issued, as per the header to your post.
So my advice is wait and see, wait and see.......
Doesn't matter to me, I have always used 800K.

[frequent]

Don't want to be nit-picking Travellerjim, but the Facebook post you quote begins "Okay, I have a draft copy.....". If it's still a draft then you cannot say it has been issued, as per the header to your post.
So my advice is wait and see, wait and see.......
Doesn't matter to me, I have always used 800K.Given the responses to this thread https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?20518-Retiring-in-thailand I wonder what the relevance is to posters here. However the whole Tod/Jim saga is a series of posts using very loose language and this is another example. In Jim's previous post Tod suggests that people overseas (and I'm capitalising because Tod does) can BUY an O-A visa; he then goes on to say that the Thai Cabinet has approved a proposal for mandatory health insurance for O-A visa purchasers whereas all the evidence is that the Thai Cabinet has had a proposal presented to them for consideration

[travelerjim]

Again frequent you must get your thrills by talking down my posts. The info is helpful as it appears to show direction of Thai Immigration as they prepare to issue new retirement visa income verification requirements.

Note the Thai police orders cited...its obvious to me that Tod Daniels has inside contacts with Thai Immigration.

As for me I got a new Non Immigrant O-A Multi-entry Visa for retirement from the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles in November 2018. Fee $200. And allows me one full year entry into Thailand including multiple re-entries during the first full year. If I leave and reenter Thailand just before the expiration of the one year I will get one additional year of stay. So in effect I can plan on having two years of retirement stay in Thailand without worry about what Thai Immigration does inside Thailand. FYI..the second year does not include single or multiple reentries permit. Must be purchased in the second year if you want it.

http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/service_visa_detail.aspx?link_id=48

Good luck...

[frequent]

Again frequent you must get your thrills by talking down my posts.Rubbish. You seem to be suffering from the delusion that I think you are someone who matters. I'm interested only in facts not misleading commentary from wannabees
The info is helpful as it appears to show direction of Thai Immigration as they prepare to issue new retirement visa income verification requirements.It is speculation as another poster has already stated. It has also been set out in a publicly reported statement by the US Consul during a visit to Pattaya recently, so Tod's poring over draft documents is particularly pointless as it adds nothing to what is already public speculation. As (I think) francois has pointed out, Tod has been permanently banned by Thaivisa which is a big plus in their favour (and you know what I think of them generally)
Note the Thai police orders cited...its obvious to me that Tod Daniels has inside contacts with Thai Immigration.You are simply making an assumption to bolster your own obsession with Tod
As for me I got a new Non Immigrant O-A Multi-entry Visa for retirement from the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles in November 2018. Fee $200. And allows me one full year entry into Thailand including multiple re-entries during the first full year. If I leave and reenter Thailand just before the expiration of the one year I will get one additional year of stay. So in effect I can plan on having two years of retirement stay in Thailand without worry about what Thai Immigration does inside Thailand. FYI..the second year does not include single or multiple reentries permit. Must be purchased in the second year if you want it.Presumably you didn't BUY your O-A visa as Tod suggests - you applied for it and paid the standard fee - which you would pay even if they refused you a visa

[ceejay]

Note the Thai police orders cited...its obvious to me that Tod Daniels has inside contacts with Thai Immigration........

Now that police order is different from the one 327/2557 in so far as they spell out different things (and the same things different ways). The 138/2557 is the supporting documents and provisos for extensions and 327/2557 is the Criteria and Conditions. You really use them in conjunction with each other but all I have is the first one.
.

It's not obvious to me. The clue is in the titles of the police orders "xxx/2557" means they came into force in 2014. They are thoroughly in the public domain and easily found online:

http://www.pcecnews.com/permNL/Immigration%20Bureau%20order%20327-2557%20%282014%29%20-%20extension%20criteria%20&%20conditions%20en.pdf

https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1487131155427.pdf

What is more 138/2557 does not set out any requirements at all. It cancels previous police orders rendered obsolete by 327/2557 and nothing else. 327/2557 is the one that specifies the requirements

[frequent]

It's not obvious to me. The clue is in the titles of the police orders "xxx/2557" means they came into force in 2014. They are thoroughly in the public domain and easily found online:
http://www.pcecnews.com/permNL/Immigration%20Bureau%20order%20327-2557%20%282014%29%20-%20extension%20criteria%20&%20conditions%20en.pdf
https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1487131155427.pdf

What is more 138/2557 does not set out any requirements at all. It cancels previous police orders rendered obsolete by 327/2557 and nothing else. 327/2557 is the one that specifies the requirementsDon't destroy his illusions. Next thing we know he'll be claiming there's been no discussion of the US Consul's speculation about income verification mentioned on SGT - https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?20549-Move-to-make-Health-Insurance-Mandatory-Retirement-Visas

[Smiles]

." ... As for me I got a new Non Immigrant O-A Multi-entry Visa for retirement from the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles in November 2018. Fee $200.... " So what visa did you have before?

Also, as far as I'm aware there is no such animal as a Non Imm 'O-A multi entry Visa'. The multi-entry part kicks in only when you decide to get a Re-entry stamp ... I.e. you chose a single or multi entry

PS .... who the hell is Tod?

[travelerjim]

Smiles...the Non-Immigrant O-A Visa for retirement is a multi-entry one year visa available and issued in your home country.

If I were you...that is exactly what I would do when you go back to Canada. I did it in November 2018 when I was in the USA. If planned right... It gives me two years of retirement visa. One US fee of $200.

http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/service_visa_detail.aspx?link_id=48

[frequent]

Also, as far as I'm aware there is no such animal as a Non Imm 'O-A multi entry Visa'. The multi-entry part kicks in only when you decide to get a Re-entry stamp ... I.e. you chose a single or multi entryAn O-A visa issued by a Consulate is a 12-month multiple-entry visa. If you depart Thailand and then arrive back one day before its expiry you get another 12-months' entry to Thailand and you can, as Jim says, then apply for a re-entry permit - single or multiple - valid for those 12 months. Effectively the initial O-A visa gives you 24 months in Thailand and (if applying for a further re-entry permit) multiple entries for the entire 24 months. I have friends who return to their home country every two years and get a fresh full O-A visa rather than dicking around with some petty Thai bureaucrat

[frequent]

I should add that to get as much of the 24 months as possible you need to hop on a plane the same day or pretty soon thereafter as the visa is issued. It has a 12-month expiry from the date of issue

[travelerjim]

Thank you Frequent...
We are in agreement with your explanation of the O-A retirement visa which is issued only from your home country.

I plan on getting it every two years...
So long as the rules remain same.

No need to keep 800,000 Thai bank in Thailand nor have 65,000 Thb transferred monthly.

BTW...I was stamped into Thailand for one full year from my arrival date.

You have three months to use the visa following its issue.

I will buy a single or multi-entry permit in the second year here in Thailand.

Turnaround time for issue via mail in the US is two weeks...10 business days. Although it has been reported it can be applied for morning of one day and picked up afternoon of second day if in person and all paperwork is in order. No guarantee....but reports confirm this on message boards.

[Smiles]

Learning every day . . . I had never heard of the two points made above. Neither do I know of anyone in my small cadre of ex-pats who has bothered with them. Nor will I ... my annual extension is all I care about.
But thanks anyway.

Who is Tod?

[frequent]

The pedants are having a field day over on Thaivisa. Thai Immigration was never going to get into the game of verifying income, so they've outsourced it to the banks for those citizens of embassies who won't issue verification letters. The headless chickens are running around because the paragraph where the income is verified by the bank states "pension" whereas if the income is verified by the embassy it states "income". My guess is that it will come to mean the same thing, since a Thai bank can only verify the amount of deposits, not the originator of those deposits. The demand is also for "monthly" deposits, which rather buggers up life for those who transfer money less frequently

The big question is whether a particular bank can verify foreign source income if the sender is Transferwise. It seems that TW uses Bangkok Bank to clear its funds, so Bangkok Bank customers will see a foreign source of funds, whereas other bank customers will only see the domestic transfer from Bangkok Bank

And it's still a draft

[frequent]

... those citizens of embassies who won't issue verification letters ...This is very disappointing. I've been expecting Tenille to remind us all that embassies don't have citizens. C'mon arsenal, lift your game :air_kiss: