Australia ending Income Verification Letters

[travelerjim]

Australia ending Income Verification Letters

[scottish-guy]

I've heard the saying "2 can live as cheaply as 1" but apparently in Thailand 2 can live for 1/2 the price of 1.

Except for homosexual couples presumably - when 2 can live for double the cost of 1

:drink:

[arsenal]

First the UK then the US and now Australia. Canada, New Zealand and others to follow presumably. I wonder why now this clearly co-ordinated decision.

[Smiles]

First the UK then the US and now Australia. Canada, New Zealand and others to follow presumably. I wonder why now this clearly co-ordinated decision.

This snippet from the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok:
"Notary services and passport services will continue to be provided by the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok."http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/thailand-thailande/highlights-faits/2018/2018-09-20a.aspx?lang=en.

I've not seen this before so I am assumimg it is in reference to these latest changes in notary services by a number of countries ~~ specifically regarding the annual income letter.
FYI: The 'notary services' office within the Embassy is where the notarised ~ by a Notary Public ~ income letters are issued for Thai Immigration.

Future unknown yet (for Canada) ...

[DoubleDutch]

This snippet from the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok: http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/thailand-thailande/highlights-faits/2018/2018-09-20a.aspx?lang=en.

I'



But Canadian embassy always wanted to see paperwork for income, yes? So if Canadian embassy will also end the income letter, what would this change?
So far Canadians did not have hold 800k Baht in Thai bank, yes? But did the monthly 65k have to be deposited in Thai bank, or was embassy letter enough for Immigration?

[Smiles]

Bb

But Canadian embassy always wanted to see paperwork for income, yes?

Yes. I mentioned this a few pages back.
For instance, I bring my previous year's tax return. On my first visit 10 years ago I lugged a whole raft of paper work along with me. Once I received my income letter I asked the embassy Notary what he considered the be the best proof of income (as opposed to my 5 kilos of paper). He said my tax return (2 pages). That's all I bring and there has never been an issue with that.

So if Canadian embassy will also end the income letter, what would this change?

Probably. My days of annual Embassy runs would sadly be over.

So number one ... I could transfer 800,000 baht into a separate count with KrungThai Bank. Once deposited I'd just leave it there, never touching it. The bank would notarise that for Thai Immigration.
Also that's the simplest but I really don't want to go that route ... I'd rather have it sitting in an investment account back in Canada producing dividends.

So number two ... I'd have to go to my Thai bank and ask them for a notarised printout of my savings account showing, that yes, I do indeed have at the very least 65,000 baht deposited by me every month. That's the most annoying process but as I don't wish to go the 800,000 baht route, I'd probably end up doing that.

So far Canadians did not have hold 800k Baht in Thai bank, yes? But did the monthly 65k have to be deposited in Thai bank, or was embassy letter enough for Immigration?

No. As it is now, the Embassy notary, after studying my tax return, produces a notarized letter made out to Thai Immigration indicating that this dude has annual income of at least 800,000 baht. (They give the specific income amount).
The 65,000 baht deposited monthly into a Thai bank account is never mentioned, either by the Embassy or Thai Immigration.
Up to now this letter has been accepted by Immigration for the last decade. Stamp stamp stamp ... thanks sir, that will be 1,900 baht. Bye bye, see you next year.

[sglad]

Sorry, I'm a little confused by all this. If you're already living in Thailand, isn't it safe to assume that you can afford to live there? Why all this mumbo jumbo about proving your income? Can't an expat just show the authorities their bank statement?

[Smiles]

Sorry, I'm a little confused by all this. If you're already living in Thailand, isn't it safe to assume that you can afford to live there? Why all this mumbo jumbo about proving your income? Can't an expat just show the authorities their bank statement?Oh dear.

[sglad]

Oh dear.

:p:))

[latintopxxx]

i hadnt realised it was so cheap and easy to get Thai residency...no wonder the place is awash with derelict looking fossils...

[scottish-guy]

Isn't it a one year retirement Visa extension rather than "residency"? Genuine question.

Incidentally, if I were you I'd go easy on criticising other people's appearance - you were described to me in a PM as looking like Ernest Borgnine.

[Smiles]

Isn't it a one year retirement Visa extension rather than "residency"? Genuine question.
Yes, LatinInYerAss is wrong most of the time ... but we love him, anal worts and all.

Regarding his latest screw up (i.e. regarding Thai "residency") he may wish to change his tone about " ... I hadnt realised it was so cheap and easy to get Thai residency ..."


In order to apply to become a Thai Permanent Resident, you must meet the following criteria:



You must have had a Thai non-immigrant visa for at least three years prior to the submission of your application. Holders of multiple NON-Immigrant visas can not apply. You must have 3 consecutive yearly extensions in order to qualify.
You must be a holder of a non-immigrant visa at the time of submitting your application.
You must be able to meet one of these categories to apply for PR status in Thailand:
Investment category (minimum 3 – 10 Mil. Baht investment in Thailand)
Working/ Business category
Support a family or Humanity Reasons category: In this category, you must have a relationship with a Thai citizen or an alien who already posses a residence permit as a husband or wife; father or mother; or a guardian of a Thai child under 20 years of age.
Expert / academic category
Other categories as determined by Thai Immigration



http://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/thai-permanent-residency.php

[Up2U]

I wish the Americans would follow Canada's lead and verify income. I have my tax returns, documents from social security and pension letters from my former employer... What more could they possibly need (and we were paying them 1500 for the income letter)? The problem is not with Thai immigration as they were just closing a loophole, it is with our embassies not meeting the needs of their expat citizens.

[Jellybean]

I wish the Americans would follow Canada's lead and verify income. I have my tax returns, documents from social security and pension letters from my former employer... What more could they possibly need (and we were paying them 1500 for the income letter)? The problem is not with Thai immigration as they were just closing a loophole, it is with our embassies not meeting the needs of their expat citizens.

And to your comments quoted above, Up2U, I would add, I wish the British Embassy would also follow suit, but won't hold my breath.

As someone who is not a permanent resident in Thailand and who plans to spend just three months (and not my usual six months) living in Thailand from mid-January 2019, I'm still trying to figure out what I am going to do when it comes to renewing my 'visa' next March.

I suspect the easiest solution would be to top up my Thai bank account to the 800,000 Baht figure early next month and not draw on that sum until after my 'visa' is renewed. That is something I have not done for quite some time, ever since the GBP equivalent was around the £10,500 - £11,500 mark. But at today's exchange rates, 800,000 Baht = £18,649* a significant increase and not the sort of sum I would normally leave on deposit in my Thai bank account. I am not entirely sure if the immigration authorities would accept deposits of 65,000 Baht (£1,515.28*) every month from December 2018 to March 2019. Since it's not entirely clear that they would accept this method, the 800,000 Baht route is probably the most reliable way to ensure no problem when it comes to my dreaded annual visit in March to the immigration office in Chaeng Wattana.


* According to xe currency converter app.

[Smiles]

"... Since it's not entirely clear that they would accept this method, the 800,000 Baht route is probably the most reliable way to ensure no problem when it comes to my dreaded annual visit in March to the immigration office in Chaeng Wattana ... "
Herr Jellybean, it's my understanding that the actual criteria(s) for receiving a One Year Retirement Visa and then receiving annual Extensions (theoretically for the rest of one's life) has not changed at all. Its the verification of income that has changed, but even then the change has only affected a small number of countries.

There was always options, three of them regarding showing Thai Immigration proof of income:

(1) That you have at least 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank and that money must be sitting there for at least 3 months prior to receiving your Extension.

(Your Thai bank will verify that you have this money in the bank, for the appropriate time. No need for an embassy verificaion)

OR ...

(2) That you can show at least 65,000 Baht has been deposited monthly by you into a Thai bank.

OR ...

(3) That you have a mixture of both. E.G. 400,000 in a Thai bank PLUS 32,500 of monthly deposits in a Thai bank (or vis/versa)

(#2 #3 are the problem children.
Both of thes two options demand that you verify the monthly 65,000 baht, and in the case of the mixture option (#3) you will need both the banks verification of the 400,000, plus the embassy verifying of the monthly 32,500 Baht.)


The big mess is all about Thai Immigration still receiving some kind of paper work verifying one's deposit of monthly income.

If the US, UK, AUS Embassy won't notorise any more (and other countries follow suit), who will? Will Thai Immigration accept my tax return? Will they send for a translator to help them out? What if they refuse to recognize it at all? What do we do then?
The Thai banks will probably help you out on that, but not necessarily. What do we do then? Just another visit to Imm with 30 or 40 pieces of from a bank's copier to shove in their faces?
The Embassy route was the easiest, most simple process to have . . . now seemingly going up in smoke.

Like JellyBean I don't at all wish to keep 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank. But right now it may well come to that.
As for the Canadian Embassy, it has already noted that income notarisation will still be on.
Ive got almost one year to find out if it will stay that way.

[scottish-guy]

It doesn't concern me personally but can't you put the 800K in the Thai Bank 3 months before your Visa Renewal, withdraw it as soon as you've got the Extension, then put it back in 9 months later?

Convoluted I know but it lessens the time your money is in a Thai bank if that's the issue?

[Jellybean]

It doesn't concern me personally but can't you put the 800K in the Thai Bank 3 months before your Visa Renewal, withdraw it as soon as you've got the Extension, then put it back in 9 months later?

Convoluted I know but it lessens the time your money is in a Thai bank if that's the issue?

Yes, that’s exactly what I shall have to do scottish-guy; it’s the only way I can see of having a problem free ‘visa’ renewal process in March 2019. But as I will not be able to touch that money for two of the three months of my trip, I shall also have to send or/and take rent + deposit and spending money for two months, which adds up to a tidy sum, well for me anyway. After my renewal date, I can then draw on the 800k figure for my remaining 4 weeks.

I just hope I can easily repatriate the unused part when I return to the UK in April 2019. Some members may recall I reported on the bureaucratic nightmare I had trying to transfer the proceeds of my Bangkok apartment sale. For those who cannot recall my story it can be found at post #6 on this topic: https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?20107-To-rent-or-to-buy

Hopefully, the transfer sum will be small enough not to require my bank to obtain permission from the Bank of Thailand and that they will be able to authorise the transfer without too much difficulty. I’ll just have to keep my fingers crossed and hope for a fair wind.

[bkkguy]

This snippet from the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok: http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/thailand-thailande/highlights-faits/2018/2018-09-20a.aspx?lang=en.

I've not seen this before so I am assumimg it is in reference to these latest changes in notary services by a number of countries ~~ specifically regarding the annual income letter.
FYI: The 'notary services' office within the Embassy is where the notarised ~ by a Notary Public ~ income letters are issued for Thai Immigration.

"notary services" will continue to be offered by the UK, US and Australian embassies as well - it is a standard consular service - so I am not sure your assumption is correct here or do you have something official from the embassy or other source?



Isn't it a one year retirement Visa extension rather than "residency"? Genuine question.

it is actually a one year extension of permission to stay, you cannot extend a visa



I wish the Americans would follow Canada's lead and verify income..

as I understand it none of the consular staff at any of the western embassies - including the Canadian Embassy - have ever verified income

read your government website and embassy website on what notorisation means - it has nothing to do with the truth or accuracy of any source document, declaration, affidavit, statutory declaration or whatever you country uses

while some consular staff at some embassies may have reviewed source documents such as tax return etc their final stamp on whatever documents does not verify the content of the documents - Smiles or someone else may be able to clarify if this is not the case for the Canadian Embassy

certainly in the Canadian case the law does allow a notary public or consular official in some circumstances to refuse to notarise a document but it is not their duty to always verify the veracity of the content of supporting documents or the actual declaration - what remains to be seen is if this discretionary refusal to notorise an income declaration will now continue to be acceptable to Thai Immigration as "verification of income" and how far Canadian consular staff are willing to go when presented with documents other than tax returns - the other embassies have already indicated that it is beyond the powers to verify every possible source of income and I don't see any reason why Thai Immigration should now be able to redefine what consular duties should be for all embassies

perhaps Thai Immigration has in the past always assumed citizens may be less likely to lie to their own government by making a false income declaration at their embassy, or - like most other people - they have misunderstood what exactly "notorised" by a foreign embassy means on a document, but obviously this cosy relationship is now over and "proof of income" now needs to be re-defined by Thai Immigration, but I am not holding my breath

bkkguy