Sex workers in Thailand

[scottish-guy]

...the boys... are essentially a commodity to be used and then discarded...

You're absolutely right of course, but you could post the same about the "boys" working in the commercial sex scene - and there's a great deal of irony in posting such an observation on a forum mainly comprised of sex tourists, sex maniacs, and gay desperadoes !

:))

[kittyboy]

You're absolutely right of course, but you could post the same about the "boys" working in the commercial sex scene - and there's a great deal of irony in posting such an observation on a forum mainly comprised of sex tourists, sex maniacs, and gay desperadoes !

:))

Oh..SG - I did not make the post with ironical intent..but I do see your very valid point. I was ironical without even know it.
I like to think (or maybe lie to myself) that I treat the boys well but in the end it is still often treating them as a commodity.
Hopefully, the Wild Boar Boys will be well treated by the experience.

[arsenal]

Kittyboy wrote.
"I like to think (or maybe lie to myself) that I treat the boys well but in the end it is still often treating them as a commodity."

I have no doubt that you do treat the boys well (as do I) but yes we are treating them as a commodity or if you prefer, service provider. As long as you deliver what you have promised and so does the boy then it's a win-win situation. And do remember you're paying him for two hours what it would take him a week to earn in another job.

[sglad]

As long as you deliver what you have promised and so does the boy then it's a win-win situation. And do remember you're paying him for two hours what it would take him a week to earn in another job.

No, we can't "remember" that because we can't say for sure what each sex worker would be making outside of the commercial sex industry. Some are able to make the 300-Baht-a-day minimum wage and usually a lot more; some are "models" moonlighting as sex workers and some like a447's Num have such exceptional English-language skills that they can walk in and out of a fancy hotel job anytime they want.

Also, although it may make the John or punter feel good about himself to present the sex industry as a benign one where everybody wins, we know there is a big debate whether that is actually true, especially in a country like Thailand where sex work is illegal and there's no mandatory health testing and regulation of the industry that might actually protect the sex workers. And it could be especially risky for the increasing number of foreigners working in this industry who have no rights whatsoever. And to top it all, they are all functioning in a culture that promotes denial where those in positions of power often look but not see and problems are rarely dealt with head on because, uhm, they don't "really" exist.

[scottish-guy]

One only has to look at the HIV rate, the drug addiction rate, or indeed the suicide rate, to realise that the sex industry is far from benign.

I'm as sure as I can be that everybody here treats them well (even Latin!) but as a career choice there are very few boys who are happy with their situation and who would not get out if they had other skills - or sufficient gumption to get (and hold down) a "real" job

[latintopxxx]

without any proof or way of really knowing the impression i get is that in Thailand there is no or very little forced prostitution ...at least not in the gay scene. I think its just easy money...least effort for max gain. Thailand has hundreds of thousands of immigrant workers doing shitty low paying jobs so there is lotsa employment out there that does not involve taking cock up the arse ...have i over simplified it??

[sglad]

without any proof or way of really knowing the impression i get is that in Thailand there is no or very little forced prostitution ...at least not in the gay scene. I think its just easy money...least effort for max gain. Thailand has hundreds of thousands of immigrant workers doing shitty low paying jobs so there is lotsa employment out there that does not involve taking cock up the arse ...have i over simplified it??

Yes, you have somewhat. I volunteered with a non-religious organisation that assisted male sex workers when I was in Thailand. Although you're right that there is not much forced prostitution, this is not the issue (and the meaning of "forced" is open to debate). There are problems associated with being in the industry, some of which have already been outlined by scottish guy. One thing he didn't mention is the varied and long-lasting emotional impact sex work has on its particpants. No, I'm not speaking through a guilt-ridden western perspective here but based on empirical data from the field gathered by Thai NGOs and social workers.

I also agree that most of the guys are there for the easier money; although numbers of new entrants have dropped overall, more and more of those entering the industry have completed secondary school and some have diplomas or degrees. There is alternative employment but I make no judgment as to what profession they choose. Also, what you see in Patpong and Pattaya is only the tip of the iceberg; 90% of the sex industry is "invisible" and geared towards local consumption and I can't even begin to describe what's going on there.

[latintopxxx]

I really do wish you would clarify forced?! why is nothing clear. In my definition forced does not include avarice. MB could have a regular construction/wait staff/construction job and live like 80% of the population. But if he wants to have the latest electronic gadgets and party all week then thats another issue.
To confuse the issue even more, you claim that more have secondary and tertiary education, that reinforces my impression that its the easy tax free money that "forces" them into the sex trade...not need...not stand over tactics.
As for you having to describe what goes on in the local sex trade I have had brief views into that world through a good japanese friend...for some reason Japanese are more in tune with the locals...maybe its a historical thing.
Lastly Im surprised u were part of a tree hugging greenie lets save the world organization...total waste of time and resources...very little flows to the ones u r supposedly helping

[sglad]

Lastly Im surprised u were part of a tree hugging greenie lets save the world organization...total waste of time and resources...very little flows to the ones u r supposedly helping

If you've been to my country you'd know that there's a lot of green amidst all the concrete, glass and steel.;)

You're right in that funding is always a problem but I'd like to think that my colleagues in Thailand are serving a purpose. The fact that our organisation is always busy - the sex workers come to us voluntarily - and often suffer from a shortage of counsellors and volunteers, suggest that the industry is not benign.

[scottish-guy]

I really do wish you would clarify forced?! why is nothing clear...

Seriously? You cannot comprehend that people may be forced into sex work without them being physically held captive as it were?

Do you understand the word "coercion" at all? At least 2 boys I have met over the years alleged they were sent by their families to an "Aunt" in Pattaya (specific definition unknown) who then sold/introduced them to a bar and told them that was how they had to earn their keep.

Do you not understand that people may be forced into prostitution because of circumstances and once in it, because of easy money or drugs or because they feel there are no other other opportunities for them, they feel unable to get out of it?

[sglad]

Seriously? You cannot comprehend that people may be forced into sex work without them being physically held captive as it were?

Yes, think along being "pressured" by family or friends (peer pressure), acting under duress because they have debts to pay off (high-interest debts from street moneylenders who would have no qualms about breaking your legs), a high-maintenance and/or pregnant girlfriend, living beyond their means (leading to debts), addictions (for eg gambling), etc.

[sglad]

I also agree that most of the guys are there for the easier money; although numbers of new entrants have dropped overall, more and more of those entering the industry have completed secondary school and some have diplomas or degrees. There is alternative employment but I make no judgment as to what profession they choose.

By the way, I'm talking about Thai nationals here.

[latintopxxx]

oh here we go again...another fake sob story...rather kinky...dad sends son to work in the industry he just retired from...I've done brothers...never dad and son...not at least as far as I can remember..
As for the do gooders...its more about making them feel good by pretending to help the poor too stupid to help themselves locals...

[arsenal]

Like it or not prostitution is actually a way for many people to earn an honest* living. I see the motorbikes they ride, the phones they have, the clothes they wear and I'm pleased that they are reaping the rewards of their labour.

* I'm sure we don't need yet another going over of this and anyone with even a semi functioning level of intelligence knows what I mean.

[latintopxxx]

oh Lord whats the world coming to...Trump gets voted in...the UK has Brexit and loses against iceland of all places.... and even worse I have to agree with arsenal.....painful reality...

[latintopxxx]

and yes I too am glad that the cleverer ones are enjoying the fruits of their labour....I certainly dont begrudge them...

[scottish-guy]

...As for the do gooders...its more about making them feel good by pretending to help the poor too stupid to help themselves locals...

And as for people who think 'prostitution is a thoroughly good career move, nobody ever gets hurt, the boys all make a fortune for no effort at all and they're all lazy, stupid and inferior to me anyway so they don't deserve any better than to get fucked up the arse by some 70yo for £20' .....what's that all about (other than self-justification)?

Most of you are old enough to be grandfathers (or more!) and I bet some of you actually are. At the very least many of you will be Uncles or Godfathers etc - would you recommend your teenage relatives take it up (and I mean that literally)?

Now, before I get called a "prude" again - of course I have taken advantage of the "facilities" offered by the commercial sex scene in many countries in the world, and I did not feel particularly guilty about that - but equally I don't close my eyes to the fact that the vast majority of prostitutes want out of it, are deeply unhappy about their situation and a great many have multiple addiction, health, and self-esteem problems. Over the years I know of at least 2 or 3 boys who have committed suicide (and I'm sure there's some I don't know about), others have been killed as an indirect result of the lifestyle, others have contracted HIV, and I'd go so far as to say maybe 50% are occasional or habitual drug users. Almost as bad as homosexuals :D

My verdict is that whilst the commercial sex scene may suit us, let's not pretend there aren't victims and there aren't casualties. The very occasional "success story" of a boy or girl who did well and moved on to a successful life outside prostitution does not negate the rest

[latintopxxx]

guess there is some truth in that...unfortunately...

[sglad]

My verdict is that whilst the commercial sex scene may suit us, let's not pretend there aren't victims and there aren't casualties. The very occasional "success story" of a boy or girl who did well and moved on to a successful life outside prostitution does not negate the rest

Very well said, scottish-guy. Great post.

[snotface]

...would you recommend your teenage relatives take it up (and I mean that literally)?

That's a good question to bring people up short and make them realise that much of what they say about prostitution is self-serving bullshit. Certainly if bullshit could fly there'd be plenty of wing commanders on gay Thailand message boards!

Speaking for myself, I can't honestly say I regret my years of coming to (or living in) Thailand to avail myself of its sex industry. I remember only too well the sort of dark, repressed, sex-starved person I was becoming before I ever came here. Commercial sex might not be ideal but, given the generally relaxed Thai attitude to sex even in the context of prostitution, I gradually learned to be more at ease with my sexuality. I rate that as no small deal. Interactions with prostitutes don't have to be mere meat-for-money affairs, which I think does have a coarsening effect on both parties over time. Without becoming all foolishly lubby-dubby about it (been there, done that!), they can still be mutually respectful at an ordinary human level. I know that's when they are most enjoyable for me. Sometimes it's not like that, there's no rapport at all, and those are the times when I wonder what the hell I am doing here.

There's always a slight nagging unease in my mind about my life in Pattaya and, tellingly, I know I never like to admit to it being my address if I can help it - I prefer to say Jomtien, which many people have never heard of. But still, when I wake up in the morning there's usually a nice little buzz of not knowing what the day will bring, perhaps some exciting adventure with an attractive young man, and that certainly beats the heck out of being back in London and knowing that the highlight of my day will be mowing the lawn.

[arsenal]

Whether one admits it or not, many much younger 'boyfriends' end up loathing their old farang paymaster with a Bette Davis/Joan Crawford like hatred. Unlike the money boy/honest john relationship with remains cordial forever. Just saying like. The moral high ground is rather precarious.

[scottish-guy]

8284

Unlike Paborn I don't bother "peaking", so I guess I'll have to wait for some kind person to quote the post above but would I be far out if I guessed its a few self-serving assertions devoid of any evidence to back them up?

[arsenal]

No need to. He's read it.

Furthermore, sending a monthly stipend/pocket money can do enormous harm.

The boy doesn't need to work and so has too much time on his hands leading to the obvious vices. Vices he can afford in abundance because of the smitten though misguided farang.

[Brad the Impala]

Furthermore, sending a monthly stipend/pocket money can do enormous harm.

The boy doesn't need to work and so has too much time on his hands leading to the obvious vices. Vices he can afford in abundance because of the smitten though misguided farang.

The bastards! You mean some farang actually try to help their less well off friends by sending them money to help out. How very thoughtless.

[sglad]

The bastards! You mean some farang actually try to help their less well off friends by sending them money to help out. How very thoughtless.

If it's no burden to the farang and he feels what he's doing is right, then it should be nobody's business but his.

When I part with 20, 30 or 50Bt to someone who asks for it or whom I feel needs it, my responsibility towards him or what he does with the money stops at the point when I part with the money. Some of my farang friends chastise me for giving the money but many of my Thai friends do the same. I hope it does some good to the person who receives it but I'm not going to over think it. I waste a lot more money than that in day on nothings. I's not quite the same as giving someone money every month but I believe the same general principle applies. My thinking is grounded on the Buddhist concept of "boon" or "dai boon" - not quite sure what the farang equivalent is.

[scottish-guy]

Thanks Brad:


Furthermore, sending a monthly stipend/pocket money can do enormous harm.

The boy doesn't need to work and so has too much time on his hands leading to the obvious vices....

The above is like something you'd hear from a Victorian workhouse manager. Just how old is Arsenal?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upD6cB9Rzvk

[gerefan2]

Thanks Brad:



. Just how old is Arsenal?





Probably old enough to be your twin brother!

[sglad]

Probably old enough to be your twin brother!

Siamese twin?

[DoubleDutch]

Seriously? You cannot comprehend that people may be forced into sex work without them being physically held captive as it were?

Do you understand the word "coercion" at all? At least 2 boys I have met over the years alleged they were sent by their families to an "Aunt" in Pattaya (specific definition unknown) who then sold/introduced them to a bar and told them that was how they had to earn their keep.

Do you not understand that people may be forced into prostitution because of circumstances and once in it, because of easy money or drugs or because they feel there are no other other opportunities for them, they feel unable to get out of it?


These are extremely serious charges.

Why do you believe these guys? They made you believe they were forced into prostitution, that is what you are saying? And they were unable to escape, handcuffed to radiators, yes? Was it their aunts?
All because they told you they stayed with their aunts.

Did go and report these crimes, if so, what were results of investigations? Surely you reported these crimes, and you wouldn't just make small talk over such serious matters now, from Europe, years later? Did you leave these guys in hands of human trafficers, had your fun with them, and simply walked away? Tell me you did not do this!!!!
If not in Thailand, surely at some UN anti human trafficking comission? Im sure you did! You wouldn't let something this serious just slide.

In 2018 Thailand that is a fucking outrageous statement, and you better have real life facts to back this up!

Scottish-guy, you are aware Thais refuse construction jobs, for years now, early 2000s all unscilled construction labour was Cambodian, Thais would not work these jobs. Thais would accept blow jobs for 1000 Baht tho, let's say 20 minutes jobs. Is this abuse, forced prostitution? Maybe in your opinion.

Since mid 2000s construction jobs, low grade labour in Thailand are manned by Burmese, Thais would not go near these construction sites. By your logic they are all human trafficed, and forced into prostitution. Or not all, just some?
This logic is retarded, you only need to look at money boy's life style, it is a career choice, there may be human trafficking in the world, but if it exists in Thailand, how come NO ONE has witnessed it? How they hide it so well? And who are they? These 2 aunts in your anecdote? Please!
You should come here, male, and female prostitutes are doing better than average Thai worker with similar education (i.e. no education), they live well, they chose their hours, and they laugh at villagers working in 711, motocy etc.

Just a simple fact that Sglad agrees with you should tell you that you may be wrong!

No slavery here, really! Or we would witness it, at least once a year, once in 10 years.

Has anyone witnessed forced prostitution and human trafficking here, other than Scottish-guy and Sglad, please, speak up!
This is serious, and something I should be aware of!

[scottish-guy]

DD, I think you need to re-visit your rather hysterical response - it bears no relation to what I said.

I specifically said that people can be coerced into prostitution without them being "held captive" - and you have turned that into a suggestion that I've said people are being "chained to radiators" - you really need to brush up your comprehension skills as I said the direct opposite and you've completely misunderstood.

As for the two boys who (separately) told me they'd been sent to live with "aunts" who then expected them to work in bars to pay their keep - you ask why I should believe them? Well why should I not believe them. Should I not believe them because they're prostitutes, is that your suggestion?

Then you suggest that I should have reported these tales to the Police at the time - what do you think that would have achieved other than to line the pockets of the police, and in a Thai-Thai-Farang situation it would undoubtedly end up being my money lining those pockets! Don't be so naive.

How about the boys I have known whom I said had committed suicide - did I make that up? How about the boys which other people have reported have died from HIV or from misadventures related to that lifestyle - are they making things up too?

You go on to have the temerity to tell me "You better have real life facts to back this up". I'm sorry, but when did I become accountable to you? Have I forgotten some contract we signed where you became my boss and were able to tell me what I "better" do?

Then to round it all off, you spout some utter bilge on about how prostitution is all a bed of roses and they're all swimming in money. You need to get a grip on reality.

Maybe try opening your eyes - maybe you'll notice that these fantastically successful bar boy prostitutes you're telling us about are the same ones asking you for 20B for food that night.

Maybe even try talking to the boys instead of just using their services - you'll struggle to find more than a handful who are happy with their "career choice" as you put it, but for various reasons they (rightly or wrongly) feel trapped in it. I'm not saying it's every boy - but there are far more who are struggling than those who are making it big and living it large!

As I acknowledged already, there undoubtedly are some boys (and girls) who do sex work and who do well, but that is very much the exception. Most are barely surviving after they send money home and pay rent and food etc. Sure when they have a good night they might blow it all on a party but that's what being 18/19/20 is about and nobody should draw any conclusions from it.

[latintopxxx]

Even though DDs reply is a little over the top I do get his point...as I do scottys...maybe the answer is somewhere in the middle...truth is there are literally thousands of unskilled jobs available but a small segment of the population veer towards prostitution...there must be a reason besides coercion...
TBH I rarely take the time to think about it, Im just so happy that they exist and are cheap and plentiful...

[scottish-guy]

I have never said that coercion is the only reason or even a main reason - only that it is one reason.

Coercion can take many forms, it can be threats, bullying, or even the opposite - it can take the form of promises of rewards.

I'm merely pointing out that there are a number of reasons why people drift into prostitution and very rarely is it (as others have claimed) a career choice, because for the vast majority it's not much of a career. You can only dance in your knickers or be attractive enough for people to pay to fuck you for so long (although Boys Boyz Boyz does its best to disprove that).

Most drift into it because they feel that for whatever reason, they have few choices - and most want out.

[DoubleDutch]

DD, I think you need to re-visit your rather hysterical response - it bears no relation to what I said. .







Agreed, I was over the top last night, around 2am, typing a reply. I was hysterical.

What if earlier last night I had paid sex with sex worker? What if I had sex with someone, who is in sex trade against his will, coerced? You understand that would make me a part of sex trafficking, yes? In fact, in the West "Johns", the customers are blamed, sex workers are seen as victims.

So maybe you see why my response was hysterical.


If you are correct, and you very well may be, and part of sex trade in SE Asia is coerced, and sex workers in one way or another are unwilling participants, that would make me, their customer, a criminal. Sex offender, in fact. Would you like to carry that label?
Because if you are correct, that is what it makes me. So maybe, before you speculate on a very serious subject, think about it, better make sure you are correct. In your reply ou turned it around, and argued you don't owe me any personal explanation. You are right, you don't owe me anything. I am not the only person here who participates in paid sex, this isn't about me only.

[poshglasgow]

"....mowing the lawn."

Now that rings a bell. Isn't that the breeders' rather common euphemism for giving the wife a good shagging?

[kittyboy]

Agreed, I was over the top last night, around 2am, typing a reply. I was hysterical.

What if earlier last night I had paid sex with sex worker? What if I had sex with someone, who is in sex trade against his will, coerced? You understand that would make me a part of sex trafficking, yes? In fact, in the West "Johns", the customers are blamed, sex workers are seen as victims.

So maybe you see why my response was hysterical.


If you are correct, and you very well may be, and part of sex trade in SE Asia is coerced, and sex workers in one way or another are unwilling participants, that would make me, their customer, a criminal. Sex offender, in fact. Would you like to carry that label?
Because if you are correct, that is what it makes me. So maybe, before you speculate on a very serious subject, think about it, better make sure you are correct. In your reply ou turned it around, and argued you don't owe me any personal explanation. You are right, you don't owe me anything. I am not the only person here who participates in paid sex, this isn't about me only.

The post is mostly about you..and your opinions.

[Smiles]

The post is mostly about you..and your opinions.By my count DD's use of "I' or "ME" eleven times (granted, none were narsisisticlly in caps nor in bold). Not too bad seeing it was a rather longish post.
KittyBoy will need more evidence than that IMO.

[scottish-guy]

"....mowing the lawn."

Now that rings a bell. Isn't that the breeders' rather common euphemism for giving the wife a good shagging?

I thought it was a euphemism for her shaving her fanny. Makes more sense

:D

[scottish-guy]

... I was hysterical...What if I had sex with someone, who is in sex trade against his will, coerced? ... that would make me a part of sex trafficking, yes? ....If you are correct, and you very well may be, and part of sex trade in SE Asia is coerced, and sex workers in one way or another are unwilling participants, that would make me, their customer, a criminal. Sex offender, in fact....

Well I'm glad to see your hysteria has cleared up!

The first thing to say is that especially in the West there is a difference between morality and legality. The difference is that the morality is much worse!

I seriously doubt that by hiring a sex worker you are in any danger of prosecution, provided of course that the sex worker is of legal age in his country and yours. Unless it was very obvious to you (the chained to the radiator scenario you painted) then I can't see how you can be held responsible for how he came to be involved in prostitution.

Of course, back in the West, if it became known that a guy in his 60's say (and I'm not pointing at you DD) was making regular journeys to Thailand to bugger 18yo boys (because that's how they would be portrayed - boys, not young men) , it would not matter a flying fuck that it was legal - good old moralistic judgement would kick in and he's probably going to lose his job and almost all of his friends. It'll be on facebook, twitter, the newspapers maybe - he's going to lose his entire life basically. Even though the likelihood is that no crime has been committed.

I'd suggest that if you're determined to worry about your interactions with sex workers (and I wouldn't) then the latter scenario is the one to really think about. That's why, as someone recently admitted, many guys deny actually visiting Pattaya on holiday and substitute some other, less notorious, destination

[Smiles]

Hmmm . . . "narsisisticlly"? That's bad.
Can anyone do better? Except of course Francois, who is actually from Brittany and thus knows neither French nor English.

[arsenal]

Scottish Guy wrote.
"Of course, back in the West, if it became known that a guy in his 60's say (and I'm not pointing at you DD) was making regular journeys to Thailand to bugger 18yo boys (because that's how they would be portrayed - boys, not young men) , it would not matter a flying fuck that it was legal - good old moralistic judgement would kick in and he's probably going to lose his job and almost all of his friends. It'll be on facebook, twitter, the newspapers maybe - he's going to lose his entire life basically."

But going to Vietnam to do exactly that is OK? Just not Thailand. Got it.

[Dimsumbear]

There aren’t that many true local Thai boys particular in the mainstream go-go boy scene these days anyway. They traveled distance from Vietnam or Combodia hoping to do exactly what they are currently doing. I am guilty of the crime myself and always forget that the boy in front of me is only mine for only 2hrs (or 1.5hrs if they cut corners). While you appreciate, treat or even care of them like a boy-friend, 99% of the time the boys would much prefer to be at GOD or Nad with friends instead. I think I wrote something similar here a few years ago: Bangkok/Pattaya is like Disneyland for adults. Please understand you pay to have the thrill of roller coasters or the magic of the around-the-world boat ride. However, when the ride is finished, it is finished.

[latintopxxx]

dimdumbear...speak many truths...

[AsDaRa]

I am currently in Pattaya. I talked to a money boy who has a house and a car. His boyfriend of 4 years had send him every month 30.000 baht. 4 years in a row this happened. They are finished now. But he is owner of a nice house and a big car.

In my country boys his age don’t own houses and that expensive car he showed me. He is well off.

I think if you are young and beautiful and smart you can make a fortune for Thai standards between ages 18 and say 25 by being a moneyboy. They are not to be pitied. After that you have a house. You only need then a simple part time job to pay for your food (house you have) and you are better of than a huge part of the population.

Some wrote here sex workers have sometimes problems. Some commit suicide. Of course given the number of sex workers in Thailand you will always find some who commit suicide, like in any other profession. The question is, is the suicide rate higher compared to other professions? My impression is nearly all boys choose this and aren’t forced. And if they are forced then who isn’t forced? I am forced to work else I can’t earn a living. They earn a living with a few hours work a day. Compare that to the average guy in my country who is in his office from 9 till 18.00. These boys aren’t to be pitied. Unless you see sex work as somehow sinful. Why? It’s just a job. And an easy one for that. One of the better paid jobs you can possibly have. The hourly rate is huge.

Also I think Thais are in general doing good. I see many with smartphones. Many drive a car. Living standard isn’t that bad in my view. Real poverty is only in the country side?

[latintopxxx]

...I was gonna say something...but decided not to...

[Oliver2]

Since most Thais live in "the countryside", such comments are inaccurate. Bangkok and Pattaya are in no way representative of Thailand and while some workers in the tourist industry are doing well, much of the money that is earned- including money from the sex trade- ends up in Isaan and so on supporting families there.

[latintopxxx]

olover...u r straying from the point...issue is that a small (i think!) minority believe that all sex workers are in some form or manner forced/pressurised into the business...they can't seem understand...or r unwilling to even contemplate ...that for some ...and i would dare say in BKK/Pattaya ...most actually choose and prefer it...its a much less strenuous occupation compared to the alternatives for someone with little education and the earning potential far outstrips anything they could earn slaving away at the 7-11 or heaven forbid a construction site or paddy field.
I've fuck..and I mean fucked...not made love to...quite a few straight MBs...they dont even get hard..and need to watch straight porn to get hard and jerk off...and the only reason i can think of is money...easy money...even the pittance i pay them...bht1000 max...means that all they need is 2 dates a week...4 hours a week at the very most to match a 7-11 wage....u would be totally stupid not to...and that is the problem...some posters here shoot off theit gobs assuming that conditions in Thailand r similar to back home in the UK/EU/USA...totally clueless

[goji]

At least 2 boys I have met over the years alleged they were sent by their families to an "Aunt" in Pattaya (specific definition unknown) who then sold/introduced them to a bar and told them that was how they had to earn their keep.

This may go on, but I have not yet encountered it. Then if a family does screw over one of their own like that, well the individual has the choice of going along with it or growing a pair of balls and leaving them.

Without causing an onscene amount of trouble, there is not a great deal we can do about it. If we double the tip, they are still in the same situation and we will find every boy in town has the same story 1 week later.

[dinagam]

Being a moneyboy is a strenuous occupation especially when the client is latin...
And if you double the tip most of it will be used to meet the needs for alcohol and fun with friends.

[scottish-guy]

Goji - just sharing what I was told, not suggesting you or anybody else “does” anything

[latintopxxx]

scotty...get with the program...2nd hand conversations/hearsay r not admissible in a law court...do try to keep up oh great intellectual one...

[Old git]

' without any proof or way of really knowing the impression i get is that in Thailand there is no or very little forced prostitution '

In terms of girls or boys being kept under lock and key and then sexually used against their will, there is no evidence that I've ever seen.

However, I do know of bars that are police owned, and appear - although I've no absolute proof - to be staffed by girls who are working as an alternative to doing jail time. It's been noted that these girls do not have their ID cards but do have some papers issued by the police. As the papers are in Thai it's not clear what exactly they say, - it's speculated that they may be a licence to be out and about in certain areas only.

This is close to being a 'forced' situation. It is also noted that in establishments primarily catering for Thai customers, the proprietors order their staff around as though they own them - it's not clear why the girls put up with that - the impression is given that they have no choice..

I've never witnessed anything like that in the gay scene however..

[kittyboy]

I talked to a money boy who has a house and a car. His boyfriend of 4 years had send him every month 30.000 baht. 4 years in a row this happened. They are finished now. But he is owner of a nice house and a big car.

The question is, is the suicide rate higher compared to other professions? My impression is nearly all boys choose this and aren’t forced. And if they are forced then who isn’t forced? I am forced to work else I can’t earn a living. They earn a living with a few hours work a day. Compare that to the average guy in my country who is in his office from 9 till 18.00. These boys aren’t to be pitied. Unless you see sex work as somehow sinful. Why? It’s just a job. And an easy one for that. One of the better paid jobs you can possibly have. The hourly rate is huge.

Also I think Thais are in general doing good. I see many with smartphones. Many drive a car. Living standard isn’t that bad in my view. Real poverty is only in the country side?

OK so you know a boy who did well with a long term "BOYFRIEND" - I would argue that is rare.
In most societies over time being a prostitute has been looked down upon as a profession. Yes Yes..I am sure you can come up with 1 or 2 counter examples but IN GENERAL prostitution is not seen as an honorable profession.

If you look at studies on mental health and prostitution it can get a bit messy as there are different kinds of prostitution..ie a high end escort versus a street walker but in general there are negative mental health consequences from engaging in prostitution. Most of the studies have been done in the west so are they applicable to Thailand?
I don't know. I do know that many of the boys tell their families back in the home village that they are working in a factory or a hotel etc..Hmmm...I guess telling everyone in the village they are a prostitute must have a stigma attached to it...and hmmm..guess what that impacts mental health.

So why do they do it? Easy money? their friends are doing it? Better than working in the rice fields? better than working for next to nothing in the boring village?
I don;t know why they do it but my experience is that most last a short while and move on..being a male prostitute in Pattaya in not a long term career.

[scottish-guy]

Excellent post, Kittyboy

[goji]

I don;t know why they do it but my experience is that most last a short while and move on..being a male prostitute in Pattaya in not a long term career.
That's my experience as well. No compulsion or coercion. They mostly roll into town, try the easy money and move on. Freedom of choice, just the same as it is with the customers.

A minority hang around for years.

[Oliver2]

Don't underestimate the sheer "fun" of being in the Pattaya scene, particularly a few years ago when it was more lively. The guys had good friends-indeed, some travelled to Pattaya in friendship groups- they had Hollywood and so on to entertain them after hours, looked after each other by sharing food and accommodation when times were hard and, for some, there was the chance of the jackpot when a soppy falang turned-up and fell in love. Like me. And ten, fifteen years on, a number of these relationships have endured.

[latintopxxx]

In the last 5 years I've probably enjoyed not more than a dozen from actual gogo bars....vast majority have been off apps and street trade...some hold down regular jobs and moonlight as MBs during their free time...this would indicate that its really money driven...on the odd occasion Ive seen some socialising with girls in a manner that would indicate that they are more than friends...guess the fact that some need straight porn to get hard would indicate their preference...if I get a real masculine one I love getting them to cum while Im fucking them and more than once they've had to watch straight porn on their mobiles...so I have no idea why they go into the sex trade...its definitely not only 100% gay guys...the only time I felt uncomfortable was in a massage parlour...had hardly started fucking the masseur when he had a scat episode...obviously was expecting scotty boy...but he still wanted his full tip...I refused and bitched to the owner/manager who proceeded to berate the masseur very loudly and apologised to me..all the whilst the masseur threw dagger looks at me..

[scottish-guy]

Delusion certainly knows no bounds on this board. They could convince themselves black was white if it stroked their egos or salved their consciences

[James69]

Delusion certainly knows no bounds on this board. They could convince themselves black was white if it stroked their egos or salved their consciences

Hey how much is sex workers down in Phuket?

[scottish-guy]

No fucking idea - I’m in G-A-Y Late in London, where are u ?

Anybody wanna call me a liar?

[AsDaRa]

OK so you know a boy who did well with a long term "BOYFRIEND" - I would argue that is rare.
In most societies over time being a prostitute has been looked down upon as a profession. Yes Yes..I am sure you can come up with 1 or 2 counter examples but IN GENERAL prostitution is not seen as an honorable profession.

If you look at studies on mental health and prostitution it can get a bit messy as there are different kinds of prostitution..ie a high end escort versus a street walker but in general there are negative mental health consequences from engaging in prostitution. Most of the studies have been done in the west so are they applicable to Thailand?
I don't know. I do know that many of the boys tell their families back in the home village that they are working in a factory or a hotel etc..Hmmm...I guess telling everyone in the village they are a prostitute must have a stigma attached to it...and hmmm..guess what that impacts mental health.

So why do they do it? Easy money? their friends are doing it? Better than working in the rice fields? better than working for next to nothing in the boring village?
I don;t know why they do it but my experience is that most last a short while and move on..being a male prostitute in Pattaya in not a long term career.

I think the points I wanted to make were not communicated clearly enough. A second try:

1) Compare a moneyboy with any other boy with bad education in Thailand who is working for 12.000 baht a month in a 7-11 store for example. Then what I see is this: the moneyboy has more free time - much more - and most likely a higher income (certainly when he has a boyfriend who helps him). Who is then better off?

2) If you are smart and young and beautiful and you have a normal job and you are in evening a moneyboy and save that money then after your prime years you can buy yourself a house. You have then laid a solid foundation for your future life. No more worries about rent to pay, you only need income for food basically. I think such a boy is not to be pitied at all. He is in fact very smart being a moneyboy.

3) Most boys are not forced. Unless you stretch the meaning of 'forced'. When you stretch it that far I am also forced to work.

[latintopxxx]

AsDaRa...they dont even have to be that young and beautiful...they just gotta be smart and really good where it counts...the sex department

[arsenal]

Nah. They gotta be good looking otherwise the legendary Arsenal ain't offing you and that is all there is to it.

[AsDaRa]

AsDaRa...they dont even have to be that young and beautiful...they just gotta be smart and really good where it counts...the sex department

True, but how will a first time customer know that about you? First time customers go for looks I assume? I do.
After 4 years travelling I have some regulars, who don't look as good anymore as 4 years ago, but since I know them and how they are I choose them.
But I think if I were to meet them now for the first time I would not choose them, considering there are so many beautiful young twinks around I have never offed.

[Blacktouch]

AsDaRa...they dont even have to be that young and beautiful...they just gotta be smart and really good where it counts...the sex department

Well for me, they do have to be young and beautiful. And of course good in bed.

As for why they choose to be money boys is simple:

• The money is good.
• Shot working hours.
• Beat working longs hours elsewhere.
• Work when they want.
• Surpport family back in the villages.
• Power and being in Control.

[gerefan2]

• Power and being in Control.

Got that Latin?

[latintopxxx]

yeah, guess we all have different tastes...I prefer rough looking in their twenties...biggest tun off is skinny stick figures fem twinkies...afraid I'll break them

[scottish-guy]

Surprised you haven’t broken your cock given the amount of wanking you presumably give it when posting your S&M fantasies

[arsenal]

His S&M fantasies or your scat obsession. They're the same. Both creepy and both well past their sell by date.

[Nirish guy]

Some could say the same about the non stop seemingly never ending boring trolling on the board of late......but hey ho.

[arsenal]

Yes.