More reflections on Boyztown's future

[Oliver2]

When I first arrived in Boyztown twenty-two years ago, it was predominantly British-owned, from Amor to Cafe Royal. Now, with the Prisma premises becoming part of an expanding Ambiance and Cafe Royal bought by BBB, it is predominantly Chinese. As many have pointed-out, the Asian market will soon be the major target for BT businesses and that market will not be gay in the sense that we consider the term.

One of the advantages of the British-connection was that the owners worked together for the success of the soi as a whole, recognising that a vibrant soi, bright, cheerful and busy, brought in custom that may spend money in different venues during the course of one evening. Furthermore, co-operation ensured that the lighting and signage was maintained and that, when Sunee was reeling from allegations of illegal activities, BT remained, relatively speaking, "clean."

There is no such mutual support now; the owners no longer meet and I've had the impression-an outsider's impression, admittedly- that it's every business for itself. I recall the effect of Copa's all-night street parties on other businesses, despite protestations from owners. And now , BBB points its outdoor loudspeakers at Cupidol and Pamorama, , not to entertain guests but to provide enjoyment for its own workers. Meanwhile, there is the concern expressed by some as to what the effect of LCR's business model will be on the soi as a whole.

Whoever owns the businesses, surely co-operation in maintaining BT as a whole is not impossible? BT was established by a group of people working together. In these difficult times, it needs to recapture that soi -identity....and, at the very least,the owners and managers need to talk with each other in the common interest.

[arsenal]

Another great post Oliver.
I read on GT that Big Boys (formerly 360 Degrees) are charging 360 baht for a shit show and dressed boys with a reported off fee of 800 baht before midnight.

Someone has obviously been into BBB and decided that they can copy the pricing structure. They simply don't know the three most important rules in that type of business. Location location, location. It will close again shortly after high season ends.

On my last visit I had a nice chat with Mr Speakeasy, the capped manager of BBB. I told him that there's nothing in his place for me now and at 350 baht a drink it simply isn't worth the money.

[Dimsumbear]

I vaguely remember a racist joke on Jewish and Chinese businessmen. Jewish A opens a gas station and attracts good business, Jewish B sees the traffic and opens a mini-mart nearby, Jewish C sees the crowd and opens a restaurant next to B. The location becomes more prosperous and good business for everyone.

Chinese A opens a gas station at a similar intersection and attracts good business. Chinese B comes along and opens one too but charging patrons 10cents less per litre. Chinese C then opens one himself and charging 20 cents less than B. Eventually everyone loses money and closes all shops. They are a determined bunch nevertheless and decides to repeat the same cut-throat practices elsewhere.

[latintopxxx]

Oh Lord, that is so true...a Jew would never undercut another...too clever for that...imagine the scandal at the schul...

[Marsilius]

You can easily look at it another way. In the 1990s Boystown as it then was - before the S was transmogrified into a Z - was operating as a cosy cartel. While the owners may well have used their meetings to discuss street lighting, does anyone also doubt that they were simultaneously agreeing to fix - and not to undercut each other on - prices for drinks and off fees?

Today, however, there is, as noted above, a changed and more competitive environment. A smaller number of punters have more options (e.g. internet sources) on how to find boys without having to pay 350B for a drink. Therefore it's become a case of every business for itself.

With the end of the 1990s cosy cartel, it ought to be expected that increased competition between businesses would drive prices down and so customers would get better deals. This, however, is Thailand where its bizarre brand of capitalism tends to respond to falling sales by increasing prices!

[kjun12]

Oh Lord, that is so true...a Jew would never undercut another...too clever for that...imagine the scandal at the schul...

Ah, racism alive and well on Sawatdee.

[latintopxxx]

dont be silly...its only racist if it is negative...not when u praise someone/race/people

[DoubleDutch]

Ah, racism alive and well on Sawatdee.

What are you talking about, latintopxxx is Jewish, how can he be racist?

[DoubleDutch]

When new le cafe opens, it may change the Soi, if it opens as karaoke or any kind of live music. Thais do only one kind of live music, very loud.
Even during the last year of previous le cafe, a show bar, it was difficult to sit anywhere near le cafe. The stupid drag show with volume cranked to the max, absolutely empty bar, only staff watching the "show".
Across from le cafe, at Ambiance even wearing headphones didn't help, it is impossible to listen to my own player with oversize headphones, only with ear canal IEM, in ear monitors, I managed to sit at Ambiance terrace through the show. It was difficult to even talk when show was on. It didn't help that around same time, every night similar drag show started at what used to be Copa, so sitting at Ambiance, you had unbearable noise coming from left and right. Former Copa had at least customers watching the show, le cafe was consistently dead.

It's puzzling who these drag shows are meant for. No one seems to like them, gay guys like men, we don't like women, so why would we need a show with groups of woman screaching away? I asked this from every gay friend at Soi, no one says they like it. But bars are almost on auto pilot - let's open a gay bar, and OF COURSE we shall have drag shows.
Maxis at Soi Twilight is excellent example what most people really want, but places like this are rare, there are almost none, Ambiance terrace the only place like this in Boyztown.
I bet le cafe will be noisy, and if live show, or karaoke will be zero interest for westerners. Maybe Chinese, but so far Chinese are not visiting Boyztown in large numbers, they only go to few gogo's.
But on other hand, Ian's and Robby's later years le cafe, restaurant was dead, day or night. In 2003 it was still super busy, after Panorama and gogos closed at 1am, everybody went to let cafe, with hotel, and bar was not subject to 1am law, bar was open 24hr. There were foreigners, hustlers, everybody was happy.
By 2006 it was getting quiet, bars were allowed to open after 1am, Panorama remained very popular, and there was really no point for le cafe to exist. Night after night empty tables on terrace, bored staff hanging around.
It's difficult to predict what would work for that location, a proper night club would be a guaranteed hit, but zoning doesn't allow it. Karaoke? Don't think so!

[arsenal]

Unlike any other bar LCR can open up completely or close up. Therefore they could actually combine the showbar with a genuine go go bar and a more risque show and alter the feel throughout the night. The dreadful lip synching dhows seem to be what the dancers want to do rather than what customers want to see.

The only lip synching I've ever seen that was enjoyable was in Castro. Some huge granny stood in a large plastic boat and mimed to My Heart Will Go On. It was hilarious and everyone enjoyed it's ridiculousness. More of that would be great.

[Smiles]

Ah, racism alive and well on Sawatdee.FAIR WARNING!: Batten down the hatches ... "off topic" is about to annoy yo'all)

Nonsense re "racism".
But then there is "dumb ass", and that's well covered by kjun. As usual.

[gerefan2]

When new le cafe opens, it may change the Soi, if it opens as karaoke or any kind of live music. Thais do only one kind of live music, very loud.
Even during the last year of previous le cafe, a show bar, it was difficult to sit anywhere near le cafe. The stupid drag show with volume cranked to the max, absolutely empty bar, only staff watching the "show".
Across from le cafe, at Ambiance even wearing headphones didn't help, it is impossible to listen to my own player with oversize headphones, only with ear canal IEM, in ear monitors, I managed to sit at Ambiance terrace through the show. It was difficult to even talk when show was on. It didn't help that around same time, every night similar drag show started at what used to be Copa, so sitting at Ambiance, you had unbearable noise coming from left and right. Former Copa had at least customers watching the show, le cafe was consistently dead.

It's puzzling who these drag shows are meant for. No one seems to like them, gay guys like men, we don't like women, so why would we need a show with groups of woman screaching away? I asked this from every gay friend at Soi, no one says they like it. But bars are almost on auto pilot - let's open a gay bar, and OF COURSE we shall have drag shows.
Maxis at Soi Twilight is excellent example what most people really want, but places like this are rare, there are almost none, Ambiance terrace the only place like this in Boyztown.
I bet le cafe will be noisy, and if live show, or karaoke will be zero interest for westerners. Maybe Chinese, but so far Chinese are not visiting Boyztown in large numbers, they only go to few gogo's.
But on other hand, Ian's and Robby's later years le cafe, restaurant was dead, day or night. In 2003 it was still super busy, after Panorama and gogos closed at 1am, everybody went to let cafe, with hotel, and bar was not subject to 1am law, bar was open 24hr. There were foreigners, hustlers, everybody was happy.
By 2006 it was getting quiet, bars were allowed to open after 1am, Panorama remained very popular, and there was really no point for le cafe to exist. Night after night empty tables on terrace, bored staff hanging around.
It's difficult to predict what would work for that location, a proper night club would be a guaranteed hit, but zoning doesn't allow it. Karaoke? Don't think so!

An excellent potted history of Boyztown from someone who has only been with us less than a year and only been posting 4 months. Long term lurker, or very long term lurker...or someone else?

[DoubleDutch]

And tonight Family Mart on corner of 2nd road and Boyztown closed down, Thai lady outside said "Finiit".

Let's hope Chinese bought this as well, and are opening gay Gogo bar, right on Second Rd, excellent walk in traffic :)

8281

[Smiles]

An excellent potted history of Boyztown from someone who has only been with us less than a year and only been posting 4 months. Long term lurker, or very long term lurker...or someone else?I think ... not fair at all.
A new-ish member to Sawatdee shouldn't be tagged with insinuations simply because of that. From what I've read he's a thoughtful contributor.

[arsenal]

Fuck that's annoying. That shop was very useful. Let's hope it re-opens as a 7-11. Those two operate as a cartel with virtually identical products and pricing which I actually really like.

[gerefan2]

Fuck that's annoying. That shop was very useful. Let's hope it re-opens as a 7-11. Those two operate as a cartel with virtually identical products and pricing which I actually really like.

Not necessary Arsenal. There is a 7/11 right opposite!

[gerefan2]

...

[DoubleDutch]

An excellent potted history of Boyztown from someone who has only been with us less than a year and only been posting 4 months. Long term lurker, or very long term lurker...or someone else?


You seem to believe that visiting Boyztown regularly since 2003 requires SGT membership.

I imagine you gave it some thought, before clicking "Post Reply", yes?
So the only explanation is that you are unusually thick.
In my 4 months of actively posting here, I have yet to come across a post from you, that has anything to add to conversation. So I have ignored your posts, not exactly difficult thing to do.
Gerefan2, please don't ask me personal questions, I don't know you, and I don't want to know you. Asking personal questions from total stranger is considered rude, you will never catch me asking about your life, and your history in Pattaya. Wanna know why that is? Cos I don't know you, and I feel I'm in no position to ask you about personal stuff. More importantly, I don't want to know you.
Perhaps you should go back and count the days I've been member here, whatever you do to fill your days, but please, no more personal questions, ok? And if possible, no more stupid questions! It's not going to work out between you and I, you need to look for friends some place else.

Are you Chinburi immigration? No? Fuck off, then! Go to your Double Shot, enjoy your evening, try not to bother strangers! Basic stuff, really.

[latintopxxx]

I think I like DD...kicking arse like theres no tomorrow

[gerefan2]

In my 4 months of actively posting here, I have yet to come across a post from you, that has anything to add to conversation. So I have ignored your posts, not exactly difficult thing to do.
.

Thank you. Very familiar wording indeed...

[Marsilius]

I think I like DD...kicking arse like theres no tomorrow

Yes, he's a plain-speaking guy who's chosen the least appropriate pseudonym I can think of...

[Nirish guy]

...or someone else?

I just assumed that that was taken as read by most already.......

[arsenal]

Getting back to LCR. This could be worse than you think. Its quite likely that they will have an open mike. That is, any drunk Chinese guy can get up and scream into the microphone at full volume. This will be relayed right down the soi.

[latintopxxx]

so what annoys u...the chinese factor...or the screaming??? u do realise that u come across as very racist!? Not a nice look. Chinese are also people...np reason to demean or demonise them....

[arsenal]

Don't waste your time playing the liberal here Latin. You lived in China for eight years (Wuxi, I believe) so you know what I'm talking about. Is that the sort of entertainment you enjoy?

[latintopxxx]

i just dont enjoy the way the word Chinese is always woven negatively into a post...

[latintopxxx]

like cant u pick on someone your size...

[Manforallseasons]

I agree the mainstream Chinese travelers are a bit of a horror.

[goji]

Pattaya evolves, according to which tourist segment has the money.

Presumably a weak pound curtails British tourism & investment in loss making gogo bars to an extent. Meanwhile, after decades of selling us all sorts of manufactured goods, China has a large middle class & Thailand is one of the convenient travel destinations for them. I suspect these trends have further to run.

As for us. We have the choice between the excess noise in Boyztown, or the adjacent sois, the remains of Sunnee & Jomtien. It's an exercise in voting with our feet.

One day, of course, perhaps Thailand might introduce some fair noise control legislation and have police who are fit to enforce it. Flying pigs will come first.

[arsenal]

They have actually Goji. A couple of years back many areas were full of those 'pop up' bars that would blare out impossibly loud music all night. They've all gone now. The police got rid of them.

[sglad]

Don't waste your time playing the liberal here Latin.

What has being a liberal or conservative got to do with being a racist? You can be politically conservative and not a racist or a liberal with latent racist views whicch tend to rear their ugly heads on anonymous boards like this. Plenty of that going on now on the gaythailand.com forum viz a viz Arabs, Indians and Chinese. I'm sure most of the posters expressing racist views see themselves as liberal in the sense that they support marriage equality, abortion, social welfare, big government, etc.

[latintopxxx]

sglad has a brain

[arsenal]

As Sglad has pointed out albeit in a roundabout way, there is no definitive meaning of the word 'liberal'. Therefore my use of it was entirely correct. Political terms such as conservative, democratic etc. have no single agreed meaning.

[latintopxxx]

oh fuck....its a bad day...again im nodding in agreement with arsenal...what is this??? am i being trolled!!?!

[DoubleDutch]

sglad has a brain

No, not really. Using "vis a vis" in a sentence is unnecessary, it is pretensious, it is used to impress dumb audience, because to dumb people it sounds foreign, thus sophisticated.

Besides, our brilliant 25 year old world traveller from Singapore typed viz a viz, it is vis a vis lol.

One should use French, or foreign language when there is no English word for it, but there is - via a vis is French for in regard to" or "compared to,". Sglad wanted to impress you, latintopxxx, I'm not sure if you should be flattered, or offended.


https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/vis-a-vis:

"Technically that "a" in vis-a-vis is an "à" as the phrase translates literally from the French for "face to face." There's a slightly pedantic ring to the term vis-a-vis so use it with caution. It's more a term that might be used in a newspaper article or academic treatise, and something best avoided in speech altogether, unless you're deliberately aiming for comic effect."

[goji]

They have actually Goji. A couple of years back many areas were full of those 'pop up' bars that would blare out impossibly loud music all night. They've all gone now. The police got rid of them.

Well, that's a start. There are still places which have the occasional event with outdoor music at loud volume. Going on until some obscene hour.
It would be better still if anyone living nearby can call the noise control department, or the police and have music shut down within 30 minutes, then add large fines for any repeat of the offence.

Priorities seem a bit twisted if anyone can play loud music in the street, even all night, yet they can regulate harmless indoor activity which doesn't harm anyone else, such as stage dancing, AKA gogo bars.

[francois]

No, not really. Using "vis a vis" in a sentence is unnecessary, it is pretensious, it is used to impress dumb audience, because to dumb people it sounds foreign, thus sophisticated.



While on the subject of spelling errors, you do mean, pretentious? :devilsh:

[Oliver2]

I agree with goji but there's one aspect that seems particularly true of Boyztown's recent history. The Copa all night parties of a few years ago were for the benefit of a handful at the expense of the many, whose evenings and nights were disrupted. LCR's karaoke nights (and mornings) of a couple of years back featured an even smaller group of drunken guys bellowing into their microphones while the rest of us were denied sleep. And now BBB's outdoor parties for their staff now dominate the Panorama corner and make conversation nigh- on impossible.
What's wrong with doors? twenty years ago, there was loud music in many more venues but it was not disruptive because the doors were kept shut.

[latintopxxx]

funny...every now and then we get a whole lot of propaganda about thailand and Buddhism and karma and how peaceful and welcoming and nice and looking after the poor and accommodating and considerate the whole society is...unlike the nasty christian western world they come from...so whats gone wrong here??/

[Manforallseasons]

Boyztown like Soi Twilight is all but gone as is Sunee and Chiang Mai....only Jomtien Complex thrieves with farangs 60+ and fem boys with the exception of 3 bars with Cambodian boys....this too shall change as immigration is only offering the Cambodians at this moment 2 week visas.

[Smiles]

Boyztown like Soi Twilight is all but gone as is Sunee and Chiang Mai....only Jomtien Complex thrieves with farangs 60+ and fem boys with the exception of 3 bars with Cambodian boys....this too shall change as immigration is only offering the Cambodians at this moment 2 week visas.I agree with most of what you wrote above except about "The Fems". When I visit Jomtien I always stay at The Venue so my steps down from That Place and out into the Complex takes about 3 seconds ... and I hang out in That Place each night I spend there. I see no more of "The Fems" within the Complex than any other grouping of gay bars in Thailand.

[Manforallseasons]

sglad has a brain

Yes but who's brain does it belong to?

[DoubleDutch]

While on the subject of spelling errors, you do mean, pretentious? :devilsh:

You are right, Francois! I should not have criticized Sglad's use of "vis a vis", obviously I can't spell, and I was wrong.

[DoubleDutch]

While on the subject of spelling errors, you do mean, pretentious? :devilsh:

Any thoughts on people using an expression in French, in conversation that is otherwise in English?

Do French people do this? Do two French men drop English words into a sentence, while conversing in French?

Do French people talk at all, you know, about stuff, about life, small talk in general, or do they just open their mouth enough to point out, and correct each other's grammar and spelling errors? You are the only French person I know, so I'm curious.
I imagine it may be quite time consuming if a non native French speaker attempts to have dialogue in French, with a French man. Imagine the mountain of spelling errors! You'd need a full time assistant.

[Marsilius]

The UK TV station Channel 4 broadcasts lots of series in non-English languages in its Walter Presents strand. Most of them are sub-titled rather than dubbed, so you hear the original language being spoken. It is noticeable that most of the foreign languages featured do incorporate a surprising number of individual English words or even whole phrases. It seems especially true of the Nordic languages - Swedish and Danish in particular seem to have incorporated quite a bit in the way of English slang expressions into their everyday speech.

[francois]

delete

[Old git]

Of all the gay encounters I've had over the years, around 50% took place without a word spoken, and in probably over 75% of encounters I never got to tell the other guy my name - and vice versa.

Spontaneous stuff - cut to the chase - just have sex..

For my generation this doesn't feel like unusual behaviour, which makes me wonder whether a) The smartphone generation is creating a radically new outlook towards gay sex or b) This is just a temporary fad.

Will the next generation of bar users mosey into a bar and get that sudden impulse to suck the dick of the third boy from the left, caring nothing about his name or background, and trusting the bar to make sure he's old enough? Or will they want to see people on their phones, and rattle off loads of text messages before arranging where to meet, only to find that the cute innocent looking photos the boy sent him were taken five years before..?

Smartphones have turned all sorts of social survey data upside down since they first became mainstream in 2012, and not always in a good way - depression and self-harm amongst younger people have both gone through the roof.

So will the big brother technology just get more and more intense - or will the next generation of young people celebrate being 'off-grid' and revel in having real encounters with real people?

[scottish-guy]

... will the next generation of young people celebrate being 'off-grid' and revel in having real encounters with real people?

No they'll just sit wanking on their phones as they do now!

:D

[latintopxxx]

sad but true...damn steve jobs killed the cottaging/dogging scene...

[latintopxxx]

although it doesnt explain the demise of the gay club...seems like the modern shirt lifter prefers to mingle with the breeders ...

[sglad]

Of all the gay encounters I've had over the years, around 50% took place without a word spoken,

Interesting...I didn't know the tradition of making out in cinemas started during the era of silent films.

[DoubleDutch]

delete

Oh no! What is this "deleted" thingy, mon cheri!?

You are letting me down, Francois, just as I was beginning to hold you in highest esteem, even higher than Google Chrome, and it's built in Auto Correct feature (I am lazy, and often have it turned Off, as you have noticed, and pointed out to me and others, as you correct the many typos that slip through).
In even higher esteem, than Windows Word, and it's built in spell check! That's highest praise possible, Francois!

This is a sad day, an unfortunate surrender from someone usually so brave, someone who does not hesitate to write post after post, (single sentences posts, no less), in order to point out fellow SGT member's spelling errors. AND typos! A valuable service to all, something that requires vigilance, and patience!
It would be only too easy to go through fellow SGT member's post, discover a typo, and just move along. That's what a coward would do! Man of courage would take that typo, and MAKE A POST OUT OF IT! A hero in my book!

You know, Francois, I have heard people call French "surrender monkeys", and similar
disparaging expressions. It is really unfortunate, and nothing could be further from the truth! French may have surrendered to Germany during WWII, unlike rest of Europe, but one thing is for sure, and I can attest to it right here and now - the bravest typo warrior on internet, who I've ever come across, is a brave Frenchman!

While lesser boards, Thai Visa Forum, for example, have a policy of deleting posts that correct typos and spelling errors, posters who practice it are called "grammar nazis", they receive a warning for first offence, and suspension after the second offence, these boards consiser it spam, we at SGT recognizes the valuable service to this board.

Be proud, François! Don't take any of this surrender monkey crap, keep resisting!!

[Old git]

My gut feeling is that we're going through a re-set. After which tech will be for servile peasants, and the role models will be 'off-grid'

- Just my 2c..

[gerefan2]

Oh no! What is this "deleted" thingy, mon cheri!?
[full post quote shortened - ChristianPFC]
Be proud, François! Don't take any of this surrender monkey crap, keep resisting!!

Francois...you know it’s Bad Boy Billy with us again...you do don’t you! Best ignored!

[DoubleDutch]

Francois...you know it’s Bad Boy Billy with us again...you do don’t you! Best ignored!

Fracois, you know it's the gerefan2 with us, again, you do, don't you! Best ignored!

Mon ami, I expect nothing less than a dedicated post, pointing out numerous grammar errors by gerefan2. A curious case of two (or is it three?) missing commas, a mystery! The fact that gerefan2 is your friend should not be grounds for granting him a pass.

Do not try, and add any thoughts and opinions of your own, that would be breaking character!

Three Dots, a trade mark of latintopxxx, should not be counted as grammar error, a plagiat, at most.

[gerefan2]

Very good BAD BOY BILLY, having a pop at three of us in one post!
Saves a lot of your long winded posts.
We love you Billy, we always do when you reappear!

[francois]

Francois...you know it’s Bad Boy Billy with us again...you do don’t you! Best ignored!

I agree.

[DoubleDutch]

Very good BAD BOY BILLY, having a pop at three of us in one post!
Saves a lot of your long winded posts.
We love you Billy, we always do when you reappear!

Since Francois, your Sunee friend, refuses to do his job, and correct errors in your posts, this job is now on my shoulders.

Here:

"Very good, BAD BOY BILLY, having a pop at three of us in one post!
Saves a lot of your long ,winded posts.
We love you, Billy, we always do, when you reappear!"

4 errors in 3 sentences, gerefan2!

Aren't you a native English speaker, gerefan2? What happened?

I'm not even gonna ask who is BAD BOY BILLY. I just assume there's something in a water at Sunee, you both hang out there, one is illiterate, the other a mad proof reader.

[arsenal]

DD wrote.
"something in a water at Sunee,"

I think you mean there's something in a waiter at Sunee. And it's usually a447. ROFL.

[a447]

If he's a hot, masculine hunk, then chances are he'll be in me!

[gerefan2]

I'm not even gonna ask who is BAD BOY BILLY. .

Exactly, you know damn well who you are.

[DoubleDutch]

Exactly, you know damn well who you are.


"Exactly, you know damn well who you are !"



An exclamatory sentence, or exclamation, is a more forceful version of a declarative sentence. In other words, an exclamatory sentence makes a statement (just like a declarative sentence), but it also conveys excitement or emotion. An exclamatory sentence ends with an exclamation mark (!).

https://www.englishgrammar.org/exclamatory-sentences/

I'm afraid you failed, again, gerefan2!

Gerefan2, understand, I am not trying to be an asshole, or difficult and unpleasant for no reason at all, I'm simply doing what your best friend, Francois, does to SGT almost every day.