British Embassy to STOP issuing income certifications

[travelerjim]

British Embassy Bangkok no longer to issue income verification letters for expats seeking Thai Extension of Stays...

[DoubleDutch]

It would be safe bet that the number of British expats, using yearly retirement extensions based on income will decrease substantially.

This must be quite an earthquake for British retirees in Thailand.

Few months ago at ThaiVisa Forum, poster from Chiang Mai reported that US Embassy will stop issuing written income affidavits, based on sworn words by person applying for retirement extension. Within hours massive thread of panicked Americans followed. Next day it turned out to be bullshit, poster had over heard something at Chiang Mai immigration office, and rushed to post the "news".

[DoubleDutch]

Here we go, 16 pages in 6 hours, full panic mode at ThaiVisa Forum:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1061149-british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters/

[Mancs]

A poster there said a worker at the Canadian Embassy said they are stopping doing letters too.

[Smiles]

A poster there said a worker at the Canadian Embassy said they are stopping doing letters too.
According to the Canadian Consulate in Bangkok (i.e. the part of the Embassy which notorises various letters) there is no change regarding the issuing of notorised income letters.
The Consulate has always been quick to change items on their web page so as far as I can see things remain the same.
My Retirement extension date is in mid September and this year the process was the same as it always was. Let's see what happens next September.

[Smiles]

Here we go, 16 pages in 6 hours, full panic mode at ThaiVisa Forum:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1061149-british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters/Yes. I'm always pretty skeptical of a lot of what is posted on the Thaivisa message board (especially anything to do with visas). Double Dutch is correct on calling it "full panic mode".

[Moses]

Here we go, 16 pages

40 already

[frequent]

Yes. I'm always pretty skeptical of a lot of what is posted on the Thaivisa message board (especially anything to do with visas). Double Dutch is correct on calling it "full panic mode"."a lot"?! It's the home of drama queens, poseurs, bush lawyers and time-wasters as far as I can see whenever someone suggests I should read some thread or other. I'm not surprised the British Embassy has stopped playing the game the Thai authorities have forced on the Embassies. Income certification is a joke - a number of embassies use wording that's not much different to "We hereby certify that this is what Mr Frequent told us". Occasionally there have been attempts by some Immigration offices to ask for evidence that a monthly amount was indeed deposited in a Thai bank for some recent months, but it's never been a rule. In theory an Embassy could prosecute one of its citizens who made a false affidavit about his income (just ask all those bush lawyers, they'll happily tell you about the risks), but to the best of my knowledge it's never happened - we'd certainly have heard about it on TV if it had

[Mancs]

The British Embassy now says the US will stop their letters too, according to an Embassy statement on Thaivisa :

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1061503-british-embassy-statement-on-income-letters-officials-knew-about-problems-in-may-and-say-that-us-nationals-will-also-be-affected/

[frequent]

The British Embassy now says the US will stop their letters tooAlways good to see the British announcing things on behalf of their colonies

[DoubleDutch]

The British Embassy now says the US will stop their letters too, according to an Embassy statement on Thaivisa :

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1061503-british-embassy-statement-on-income-letters-officials-knew-about-problems-in-may-and-say-that-us-nationals-will-also-be-affected/

This will have huge effect on Americans then, too.

Imagine living here full time, for maybe 10 years, and having sold property in US or UK, and then bought a condo here, a very typical scenario.
So far this retired man had to be over 50, and once a year visit his Embassy, pay small fee, and walk out with income verification letter. Based on that letter, he gets 1 year permit to stay, so called retirement visa.

Trouble is, many many retirees do not make 64.000 b every months. In US that would mean monthly pension of $1930 USD. I know few retired Americans in Pattaya, out 5 guys 1 guy actually receives this amount. Most Americans get $900 to $1200 pension, that is not enough to qualify for 1 year retirement extension.
I feel really bad for these people, Thailand is the only home they have, nothing back home, Thailand is their home.
So next there will be mad dash to agents, people who 'help' to have all the necessary paperwork, including Thai bank statements, showing they have necessary 800k on their Thai bank account. This service costs between 20.000 and 25.000 baht, every year. There are people who can't afford these services, a pensioner who gets $900 every month has enough to live here, but not much left for extras.
What may happen next, is crackdown on agents, who work with IImmigration. That is the day these retired people are truly fucked.

What's really sad, people who I personally know, have nowhere to go back to, no home, no relatives, no friends in the old country. They sold everything when they moved to Thailand.

Retiree will try to sell his condo here, not going to be easy, condo market in Pattaya is already bad, people who bought a 3 Mil condo 10 years ago can't sell it today for 3 Mil. This is true story, American guy, he paid 3 Mil, he now can't get 2.5, and he has it listed for around 3 years now. Market is over saturated, high number of units, not enough buyers, especially for older units.

This is a lesson, never, never buy here more, than you can afford to walk away from. And never sell your home in the old country. A $900 American pension is not enough to even cover rent in major US cities. Wouldn't want this in my old age.

Rent in Thailand, and if you had enough of it here, drop the keys, and take taxi to airport. Live your life at home, where you have health care, and where you treated as equal.

[frequent]

With careful planning 4 guys can shuffle the same 800K between themselves to satisfy the assets test rather than the income test. A friend of mine has a lucrative line in lending his money out to a close circle of friends all the while earning better rate of interest, tax free, than he’d be getting on deposit with a bank. Unfortunately I suspect such planning is beyond the abilities of many

[DoubleDutch]

With careful planning 4 guys can shuffle the same 800K between themselves to satisfy the assets test rather than the income test. A friend of mine has a lucrative line in lending his money out to a close circle of friends all the while earning better rate of interest, tax free, than he’d be getting on deposit with a bank. Unfortunately I suspect such planning is beyond the abilities of many

Interesting. And as you said, beyond ability of many, certainly mine.

What about you, frequent, ever thought about selling your 4th floor walk up, and move to Jomtien? You may even have hot water in Thailand, we have those wonderful water heaters next to showers, when you want hot water, you press the red button. Water pressure is not so good, but it gets luke warm, eventually!
Ever thought about moving here?

[frequent]

What about you, frequent, ever thought about selling your 4th floor walk up, and move to Jomtien? You may even have hot water in Thailand, we have those wonderful water heaters next to showers, when you want hot water, you press the red button. Water pressure is not so good, but it gets luke warm, eventually! Ever thought about moving here?I do have some standards

[DoubleDutch]

I do have some standards

That is exactly why I'd love to see you operate one of those hot water machines. I bet you'd feel terribly awkward.

[frequent]

That is exactly why I'd love to see you operate one of those hot water machines. I bet you'd feel terribly awkward.That's what servants are for

[DoubleDutch]

That's what servants are for

Well, should you visit these parts, I'll operate the water machine for you, no need to bring full household staff along, give them a week off

[frequent]

Well, should you visit these parts, I'll operate the water machine for you, no need to bring full household staff along, give them a week offIt's very kind of you to offer, but I warn you I'll expect the full body servant experience - in the shower with me, washing all those hard to reach places, crouching down to wash my feet, drying me with a warm, fluffy towel and later helping me to dress in the full Grand Levee (http://thisisversaillesmadame.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-kings-levee.html) style as decreed (I understand) by Louis XIV's gay brother, the Duke of Orleans. Are you up to that?

[DoubleDutch]

It's very kind of you to offer, but I warn you I'll expect the full body servant experience - in the shower with me, washing all those hard to reach places, crouching down to wash my feet, drying me with a warm, fluffy towel and later helping me to dress in the full Grand Levee (http://thisisversaillesmadame.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-kings-levee.html) style as decreed (I understand) by Louis XIV's gay brother, the Duke of Orleans. Are you up to that?

Jesus!! Better bring the full Downton Abbey staff with you then. And you can forget about having access to my hot water machine!

[DoubleDutch]

I... as decreed (I understand) by Louis XIV's gay brother, the Duke of Orleans. Are you up to that?

Now you are just making things up, when teenager I was huge fan of Alexander Dumas,
there was no mention of Monsieur beng gay neither in "20 Years After", nor in "10 Years After" trilogy.

And you can forget all about my hot water machine, did I mention that? I hereby rescind my offer!

[Mancs]

Always good to see the British announcing things on behalf of their colonies

If it was still a colony we certainly wouldn't have put Trump in charge. I know leading uk politicians are barking but there are limits.

[frequent]

Now you are just making things up, when teenager I was huge fan of Alexander Dumas,
there was no mention of Monsieur beng gay neither in "20 Years After", nor in "10 Years After" trilogy.

And you can forget all about my hot water machine, did I mention that? I hereby rescind my offer!
Try reading history books or even Wikipedia

[Patanawet]

Sorry to drag this back to it's original title.
I read somewhere on Thaivisa that an official petition has been started - 5 signatures so far.

[frequent]

Sorry to drag this back to it's original title.
I read somewhere on Thaivisa that an official petition has been started - 5 signatures so far.That'll get them quaking in their boots in Whitehall

[Gaybutton]

This will have huge effect on Americans then, too.

Received today - October 12:
______________________

Subject: "Income Letter" from Embassy
To: Pat Koester < pxkoester@earthlink.net >

From:
Pat Koester
Citizen Liaison Volunteer
US Embassy Bangkok

Greetings:

You have probably heard that the British Embassy in Bangkok has decided to stop issuing “Income Letters” for retirement visas.

If you follow the Thaivisa.com website, you also know that the British Embassy has allegedly said that the US Embassy has also decided to stop issuing these letters. Turns out that this is not quite the case.

I contacted the US Embassy, and received this response from an Embassy spokesperson: “We are aware of the U.K. Embassy’s statement to the press. The U.S. Embassy’s current income affidavit policies can be found on our website: https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/. We are currently evaluating options regarding the future provision of this document. We urge all citizens to ensure they are in compliance with Thai visa requirements.”

To me, the most important part of this statement is the fact that our Embassy is still “evaluating options.” They have also asked for our input; I think this is very encouraging. So if you would like to comment – and especially if you have any solutions – please let me know, and I will forward everyone’s comments to the Embassy. If you prefer to remain anonymous, I will not use your name (as long as you keep it civil).

If you prefer, you can send your input directly to the US Embassy at acsbkk@state.gov.

I will be at the Pattaya City Expats Club meeting this Sunday if you would like to discuss this further.

Please feel free to forward this email to other American citizens, and give them my email address. It’s very important that we get the word to as many US citizens as possible very quickly!

Thanks,

[MiniMee]

We are currently evaluating options regarding the future provision of this document. We urge all citizens to ensure they are in compliance with Thai visa requirements.”

To me, the most important part of this statement is the fact that our Embassy is still “evaluating options.” They have also asked for our input; I think this is very encouraging.

I wouldn’t interpret “evaluating options” as encouraging at all. Quite the opposite; this just means that, as usual, Uncle Sam hasn’t got a clue about new Thai visa requirements and has been caught napping. They will inevitably just follow the lead set by the British once they finally get their ass in gear and conclude their “evaluation”.

[frequent]

I wouldn’t interpret “evaluating options” as encouraging at all. Quite the opposite; this just means that, as usual, Uncle Sam hasn’t got a clue about new Thai visa requirements and has been caught napping. They will inevitably just follow the lead set by the British once they finally get their ass in gear and conclude their “evaluation”.I thought it was typical officialese - a polite way of saying "Fuck off and leave us alone"

[lonelywombat]

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1062072-uk-govt-petitioned-to-reinstate-proof-of-income-letters-for-british-expats-in-thailand/?utm_source=newsletter-20181012-1157&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news
a copy of the petition is included in the attachment


A petition has been started that aims to persuade the UK government to abandon plans to stop issuing proof of income letters to pensioners and other applicants.



The move was announced by poster "richiejom" on Thaivisa who said that the petition received 12 signatures in its first hour.

Other posters in the thread called for people to sign up.



Some British people in Thailand feel that their consular services are being degraded and they feel abandoned.



This comes despite claims made last year by the British ambassador who promised "top notch consular services"

[travelerjim]

Here is a video on this subject from the British Embassy...FYI

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1395920320731833/permalink/2235289230128267/