Lets call it what it is It's not a tip

[allieb]

Call it what you like but the bottom line is its payment for sex (prostitution). A tip is given in any business for exceptional service. I don't tip in a restaurant if I get lousy food or lousy service. The money we pay is for sex for sale. "payment for sexual services" the only thing is that, usually what we give them is a sort of grey area in terms of how much. The off fee is fair for the bar and the Farang as he doesn't have to do any ground work he just selects by number. Prostitution at its worst.

I have my own scale of payment which I follow
1,000 bt for a 2 or 3 hours. A lot of boys can't wait to get away.
1,000 bt for an all nighter with a tip of 300 / 500 bt if they were good

Long term for BS I give 30,000 for a one month holiday plus all the goodies like a bit of shopping drinks and meals.

I would be very interested to know what all you guys think is fair and what you would pay for services. and do you really believe it's a tip you are giving them

have my own scale of payment which I follow
1,000 bt for an all nighter with a tip of 300 / 500 bt if they were good

Nonsense. You can call it a tip but someone else should not ?.

I have my own scale of payment which I follow
1,000 bt for a 2 or 3 hours. A lot of boys can't wait to get away.1,000 bt for an all nighter with a tip of 300 / 500 bt if they were good


With that sort of 'generosity' it is little wonder the boys can't wait to get away.

How do you equate 2-3 hours with an all-nighter for the same payment?

A lot of boys can't wait to get awayWhy are we not surprised?

[allieb]

Naughty But Nice questions my generosity but he doesn't tell us how much he pays.

Equating short time with an all nighter. The all nighter gets extra 3 to 5 hundred extra, fed in the morning in a cafe and also has the chance of getting another night if things are working out

Again NBN please tell us what you pay lets see how generous you are.

You also mention regarding my generosity "no wonder they can't wait to get away" I pay at the end perhaps you are used to paying up front and you assume I do also. The only people who pay up front with a one nighter bar boy are people who pay over the odds as they are lacking in something. Is that what you mean by being generous.to keep the boy interested

... as the customer's personality as evident from the post

[bao-bao]

allieb said "The all nighter gets...fed in the morning in a cafe" Not being critical of you personally here, allie, but my thoughts:

One of the interesting things I've read here on the board (not that I'm proud to say I've gone back through dozens of pages of past postings) as well as conversations with Thai friends and acquaintances is that many times the boy isn't all that thrilled to go to breakfast with their client the next morning. For one, it makes their work life (and sometimes faux "gay" life) public. Also, many times they have someplace else to be in the morning (classes, family obligations, mainstream work) and just don't have the time to go. Add to that their choice of and "American Breakfast" vs johk or khao tom and you have ample reasons to not think that breakfast is a good as an increase in a cash tip.

And face it: I'm guessing that many times for many boys sometimes the "boss" isn't all that appealing to begin with, and it's nice to clock out and go home! It's a job, after all. In all of my trips there I haven't offed a boy (so far), but if I did I'd like to think I'd tip well. $10US isn't nearly as dear to a farang on vacation as it is to a Thai living a far humbler existence.

[i]Naughty But Nice questions my generosity but he doesn't tell us how much he pays.

The reason being that as I have a regular b/f i have no offed for more than 18 months.

Equating short time with an all nighter. The all nighter gets extra 3 to 5 hundred extra, fed in the morning in a cafe and also has the chance of getting another night if things are working out

As has been said many times on these boards, one of the things that Thai boys dread the most is having to accompany a Farang through the silent breakfast ritual. 3-5 hundred 'extra' is not relevant when your standard 1000Baht fee is so miserly to begin with.

Again NBN please tell us what you pay lets see how generous you are.

When I last offed about 18 months ago, here in Bangkok, I paid 1000 - 1250 for a short time and 1500 - 2000 for long time.
You also mention regarding my generosity "no wonder they can't wait to get away" I pay at the end perhaps you are used to paying up front and you assume I do also. You should never assume things especially when your are wrong :blackeye:

[b]The only people who pay up front with a one nighter bar boy are people who pay over the odds as they are lacking in something. Is that what you mean by being generous.to keep the boy interested

I have never paid up-front but have always agreed a tip with the boy concerned. As for paying over the odds, everyones' financial circumstances differ that is accepted, but I pay what I think the boy is worth and am not influenced by the miserly like yourself nor extravagant like some others.

[Davey612]

Isn't 1500 close to the upper limit for an all-nighter anyway?

A job is a job is a job. You can call the money offer whatever you want but it is basically a compensation for services rendered.

My Thai boyfriend won't eat Western food so breakfast can be a problem. I took him to a very upmarket hotel in Hua Hin for a few day's treat. He deserved a complete rest and he loved the hotel but there was no Thai food at breakfast at all and we had to take the hotel bus into the town all the time for him to eat.

My experience of Bar Boys is that they'd rather sleep than get up and have breakfast.

[bao-bao]

Davey612 said "A job is a job is a job. You can call the money offer whatever you want but it is basically a compensation for services rendered"

Prostitution:
1) The act or practice of engaging in sex acts for hire.
2) The act or an instance of offering or devoting one's talent to an unworthy use or cause.

Leaving the primary usage out of it for a moment and look at #2.

How many of us can honestly say we haven't prostituted ourselves while toiling away at some banal corporate or otherwise unsavory job at one time or another?

The off fee is fair for the bar and the Farang as he doesn't have to do any ground work he just selects by number. Prostitution at its worst.

Just wondering what "Prostitution at its best" would be.

Just wondering what "Prostitution at its best" would be.The Bog of Shame

[Impulse]

1,000 to 1250 short time,and 1,500 to 2,000 long time.Im more to the upper range as Im on vacation and im looking to waste money.Buying breakfast is silly as they are simply uncomfortable,Im sure they rather have a couple hundred baht instead of breakfast.

1,000 to 1250 short time,and 1,500 to 2,000 long time...

I don't think 1250 short time, or 2000 long time is enough for the star boys (those very popular boys) or the boys at specialty bars (such as Tawan). Most of these boys want to know how much you will pay before they agree to go with you. Of course you can try to bargain, but to me, that ruin the fun of the whole thing. :cyclopsani:

Never a problem for me. I don't see the appeal of "star" boys. I don't have a high opinion of prostitution so I prefer those who are failing at it.

[Impulse]

Re: I agree with naughty but nice
rocket wrote:
1,000 to 1250 short time,and 1,500 to 2,000 long time...


I don't think 1250 short time, or 2000 long time is enough for the star boys (those very popular boys) or the boys at specialty bars (such as Tawan). Most of these boys want to know how much you will pay before they agree to go with you. Of course you can try to bargain, but to me, that ruin the fun of the whole thing.
I meant for pattaya,I realize BKK is more expensive,just as boyztown is more than sunee.I always agree to a price before we leave the bar and then tip more,unless they are real bad,just sit there and do nothing.

[Davey612]

1,000 to 1250 short time,and 1,500 to 2,000 long time...

I don't think 1250 short time, or 2000 long time is enough for the star boys (those very popular boys) or the boys at specialty bars (such as Tawan). Most of these boys want to know how much you will pay before they agree to go with you. Of course you can try to bargain, but to me, that ruin the fun of the whole thing. :cyclopsani:

Lets see, time is time. Go home with 0 Baht or go home with the best bargain a guy can get. Isn't it like airline seats or hotel rooms? Once customer goes, no chance of filling pocket with extra Baht. In the end, it is the laws of demand and supply. I guess if a guy is popular, then he knows that he does not need to bargain since there will be another customer who is willing to pay his asking price. A no so popular guy?

Simple my dear Watson. It is economics.

I agree with all the above.
I think the best strategy is to go to bar near the closing time, and pick the left-over boys.....you will get a real bargain. :bounce:

In April, I had a massage in my hotel room in Bangkok. Bearing in mind this is a very expensive 'otel, and things are discreet.

They said the health centre was out of action (I see they are building a palace of a new one on about a half an acre of ground) but that the masseur could do it in my rooms instead. So desperately in need of a good stretching after a very bumpy flight through a few typhoons, I thought that would be just fine.

About half an hour later a tall and very good looking athletic Thai arrives, dressed in an Indigo two piece silk pyjama smelling as sweet as a baby, bearing a sling bag and some hotel towels, he was all floppy fringe and large bedroom eyes. He smiles the smile of an angel and asks where the bedroom is. Almost immediately the predictably cute housekeeper arrives back to strip my bed to a single sheet and scatter some fresh flowers, and all is set.

The massage had been set at 200 US, which I know is outrageous for Bangkok, but I was too tired to start the whole social graces and chit chat necessary to get through the lobby and into a car, and besides the traffic from my window looked like it wasn't going any-where, so without much resistance I did my usual, fine fine fine.

When I went into my room I just fell onto the bed, cloths and all. It all looked perfect, the lights were dim, the air smelt faintly exotic from the lightly perfumed Plumeria, I could even smell his sweet breath from where he was standing at the foot of my bed and I was tired as dog. The masseur took off his top ruffling his hair and delighted me with his six-pack and mini garden path curling up to his belly, and I thought heaven.
I thought I had better get up and take a shower and get ready, but as I made to move he gently pressed me back onto the bed and started untying my shoe laces. One by one they slid off over my socks, and then with one deft sweep my feet were bare. He continued in the most dream inspiring rhythmic and tactile way, till I was all stripped, gently wiped down with a warm moist towel, dried and lightly draped in a sheer silk sarong the colour of the waning moon.

When I awoke three hours later it must have been about eleven in the evening, I was all tucked up in crisp sheets and fluffy duvet's the air-con was down the lights a distant glow, but I was not the only one breathing soundly in my bed. Lying alongside me on his side naked to the waist, his head propped up in his cupped hand, and eyes wide awake, shaded by a few swaths of thick hair and looking down on me, was my masseur, smiling gently. In a reassuringly deep voice, he asks, "you still want a massage sir?".

I never did get the massage I was just too tired, and when I smiled back without moving, he silently slipped out of bed flashing his smooth white arse and tip toed out of the room singing a little Thai lullaby under his breath. I fell back into oblivion and awoke again at ten in the morning.

What is truly remarkable about these events is that I was not charged a cent on my hotel bill. And as hard as I tried later on, I could not find the masseur, even my description of him brought puzzlement and questions like, are you sure sir, the only male masseur here is short and "oh yes very nice but I dont think he work here". I assumed he was arranged by my housekeeper whom I had asked to enquire about the massage in the first place, he had already left for chiang mai for Songkran, so just in case, I tipped him for two, and handsomely at that, leaving the money at the front desk.

ahhhh....a wet dream after a longhaul flight.

I know of one 'star boy', offed virtually every night in low season and every night in high, who really just sees it as a business deal (as many do). He hates any farang asking for over nights, he wants to do the 'business' and get out and then go to karaoke, drink with his friends or go fuck a ladyboy, breakfast is the last thing he wants. Further, he really doesn't want any long term farang, call backs are ok for him but anything resulting in a 'deal' that would see him tied to one farang could actually mean a drop in income for him.

As regards what is good or bad in terms of payment for long or short term depends on so many things. For example, when I used to off guys I never agreed a fee before hand, I would make payment based on how long the 'short time' was, how into it the guy was, how friendly and chatty they were and then what we actually did in bed. It also depends, as has been pointed out in previous discussions on this topic, as to whether you are a tourist with money to burn or a foreigner now settled in Thailand (who may or may not have money to burn).

The guy himself can make a difference and lay the ground rules. I have been approached twice in the street (during the day) by guys who I had previously seen in gogo bars a night or so earlier. On both occassions the guys wanted a quick one off transaction and both stated they would take 500 baht - the same happened at one bar I stopped at for a drink (daytime again) when two of the staff asked me if they could both take care of me for 500 baht each.

It is not normally considered polite to ask a guy how much he wants for payment (unless as just stated they offer up a sum themselves for you to consider) and the question will normmally result in the answer 'Up to you', however most would expect a minimum 1000 baht to 1500 baht for short time. Very few will ever look at the sum you give them and ask for more if they feel short changed (and even fewer will 'try it on' and guilt trip you to get more), they will simply store the info' away so that if you off them or a friend of their's, they know in advance what sums to expect from you and can make it clear, by their actions towards you in the bar, whether they are willing to go off with you again.

Thaiquila's comment re: 'Never a problem for me. I don't see the appeal of "star" boys. I don't have a high opinion of prostitution so I prefer those who are failing at it', is not only funny (and maybe a little bit sad) but can also dictate what the guy may expect or accept by way of payment.

Minimum 1400 baht, maximum 3000 baht.

Bangkok

Street Trade (silom, pan pacific.,sunam Luang): 500

Go Go : 1000 - 1200 (depends on the bar)

Phuket

Street Trade: 300

Go Go: : 800


Pattaya : 500

Go Go : 1000

If a guy is really into it and gives a hot time - I would add up to 500B more - but from experience this is the exception. Anyone who says they 'love me' gets 500 LESS!


Gaydar or Gay.com pickups will get a 'cab fare' if they ask, as some do - that is usually B200.

[allieb]

Paul 2257

Thank you for what I think is the most honest answer on this post regarding amounts paid.

The amounts you state are what other farang in thailand tell me they pay. My payments are slightly more and other posters say they pay way over what you and I pay.

Regarding overnighters: I never ask for overnight I wait until they have had their shower and see if they get back into bed or get dressed. Then I say do you want to stay. No presure is put on them to stay. In the morning the breakfast thing is offered some say yes and some say no thanks. The sums I mentioned are my guide line. I have one or twice paid a lot more that is whan I have had a really good time but that is rare.

Its difficult to get exactly what you want from a boy. Once a boy told me when I asked him what he will do and what he dosen't do he promised anything I wanded. When we got back he told me he wasnt really gay and only did this because he needed money. I had verry unsatisfactory sex but still gave him 1,000 Bt but no extra tip. Some friends I should have just chucked him out.

I wonder if these big spenders on this site are really big spenders.

I find the poster who said willing to pay $200 for a massage hard to believe. He fell asleep with the boy in his room before anything happened. I hope all his valuables were in the roomsafe. After all nobdy knows where this boy came from. At least a bar boy can usually be found again shold there have been a problem.

[Smiles]

What you could try is this (but you'll have to segue in very quickly or you're dead):

After the deeds are done and you're both lying there in the moonlight / afterglow ~ little sparkles of cum sprinkled over both your tummies (or whatever) ~ place two fingers gently on his lips in such a way as he will know you are about to say something. Then ~ gently squeezing his cock lovingly, and before he has a chance to get in a word ~ say to him quietly but nonchalantly, " ... well my tirak, that was really great ... how much you want? ... UP TO YOU ... "

Cheers ...

As I recall from memory:
I was there for two weeks and was with the same boy from day one till the end.
Some nights we had sex, some nights we didn't but he got paid the same amount, 1500B each night, regardless. First few days he was with me 24/7 but noticing the growing look of boredom on his face as the days passed I started giving him time away from me
ie. when I went to the beach there was no point in him sitting with me all day so I told him it was ok to go with his friends and come back in a couple of hours. Just one point on that. I quickly learned that it is better to give an exact time for him to return as he disappeared for longer each time. The old adage of "give them an inch, they'll take a mile" seems to ring true in my experience.
Often I'd ask where HE'D like to go at night and so we ended up at the cinema, ten pin bowling, circus and such like. I took him to Koh Larne for the day and told him to invite a friend and I'm sure few of you will be surprised to learn that TWO friends turned up (give them an inch...). I let the matter drop as I couldn't be bothered with an argument or fall out.
We also had a day in Bangkok where we visited mama along the way. Got to say I felt totally out of place doing this as I speak no Thai. I was suspicious when he announced it was mama's birthday but there was no mention of a gift from me and none was offered and he also went out and bought her a pressie so I'll assume that in this case it really was mama's birthday.
We also spent a day shopping during which I spoiled him a bit - about 5000B.
Naturally I paid for all meals drinks etc as well as the occasional little extra like phone card, magazines and such.
On leaving day he came to the airport and this time he tried to invite another two friends to come along in the taxi so they could all spend a night out in Bangkok but this time we did have words and his friends were left to get the bus.
The goodbye at the airport was sad but not tearful and he got what he came for (I'm not totally stupid).....an extra 3000B which was about all I had left to give.
Generous? Miserly? About right? I'll leave that for you to decide. You can let me know what you think.

.......Generous? Miserly? About right? I'll leave that for you to decide. You can let me know what you think.

up to you.

Some nights we had sex, some nights we didn't but he got paid the same amount, 1500B each night, regardless.

Well I should certainly hope so. Whether or not you had sex is completely irrelevent: the boy was stuck hanging around with you when he could have been shaking his money maker. Unfortunately, too many farangs still think that they're somehow giving these boys a "vacation", and that a tip is therefore optional (especially if there's no sexual contact). If you rent a car but leave it sitting in a parking garage all day, that's not Hertz's concern.

As I recall from memory:
I was there for two weeks and was with the same boy from day one till the end.
Some nights we had sex, some nights we didn't but he got paid the same amount, 1500B each night, regardless. First few days he was with me 24/7 but noticing the growing look of boredom on his face as the days passed

That is hardly surprising.

If you turn the tables around how would you like spending your working hours with a much older 'boss' who is a complete stranger and then having to spend the rest of the day when your work is finished with him when you have very little in common?

[/quote] On leaving day he came to the airport and this time he tried to invite another two friends to come along in the taxi so they could all spend a night out in Bangkok but this time we did have words and his friends were left to get the bus. [/quote]

What possible harm would it have done to allow his two friends to travel in the taxi with you? It would have cost you nothing. Maybe you gained some sense of achievement by refusing his request but you probably lost the respect of the boy by doing so.

[Impulse]

[/quote]find the poster who said willing to pay $200 for a massage hard to believe. He fell asleep with the boy in his room before anything happened. I hope all his valuables were in the roomsafe. After all nobdy knows where this boy came from. At least a bar boy can usually be found again shold there have been a problem.

I believe it,$200 dollars is not so much money really,and he was on vacation.Remember,some people have the attitude,"you cant take it with you",when hes on his deathbed Im sure he will be glad to have wasted 200 dollars on a nice backrub from a goodlooking thai.Im with you though about hiding my valuables,I would not trust anyone like that in my room,let alone going to sleep with him there.

[Impulse]

I agree with bgenius here,it doesnt matter if you have sex or not ,you must still pay the boy.With that in mind Id be carefull about committing myself to one boy for an extended duration as his performance will likely dwindle over time.Im going in a week to Pattaya and Ill find someone,probably a different one everother day.I guess if I find a great one I like maybe I will stay for a week or so If Im lucky.

[Davey612]

If you rent a car but leave it sitting in a parking garage all day, that's not Hertz's concern.

So true. Reminds me of the commercials made by OJ. Leaping to his car. Falangs leaping to their guys? :bounce:

To Boygeenyus and Rocket
I wasn't suggesting he shouldn't be paid, I was merely outlining what occured

To Naughty But Nice
The reason I didn't want four of us squeezing up in a taxi is that I wanted that last little bit of time to talk with him privately and not in front of his friends. Not a lot to ask IMO.

Very good tip Smiles. I think they will be out'a there in seconds, with their pants around their ankles clutching a 20Bht note.

Allieb, 200$ is not as uncommon as you think, in most 5 and up star hotels this is what they charge, if my memory serves me well the Oriental charges 300$ and will only take credit card bookings. Well it is outrageous and absolutely not worth it in most circumstances. This is also a straight massage no "you happy?" which I believe is quite popular elsewhere.
The Oriental is now as busy as central station NY, as it is firmly on the mass tourist agenda as a place to see, so not a very good place to stay or get a massage. Their health centre is on the opposite side of the river, across the ghastly marble terrace, which has smothered every last blade of grass on what used to be a charming lawn, here you will also find the tacky mega restaurant with the Thai traditional girl dance troupe, extremely popular with non guests of the hotel, mostly Chinese and American tourists. The massage is just so so and they only have woman unless you make special prior arrangements.

Even worse by far is the famous Shangri-La health club featured in many guides, which charges exactly 200$US. The facility is impressive at first sight if not a bit over the top, but the massage is appallingly bad. The massage table is not built for traditional Thai massage, so you get a sort of cut off version and the masseurs don't know their arse from their elbows. This is a big fat waste of 200US$.

None of the above figures in tips, which is definitely up you. But it is never the masseurs fault in these places for the set charge, so ten percent or nothing is my standard, depending on what it was like. I find the top end hotels , are the worst places to get a good massage any-way. Which is a bit sad for those who think they are going to be treating themselves or their partners to a bit of heavenly pampering in style. A situation that I think needs addressing.
The problem is in many cases, American standards in health clubs and resorts have become ubiquitous across the glob and really fall short of the real deal. Not only for gay travellers but for ever-one expecting to get what they pay for.

Call it whatever you please I'm happy to pay it and happier that there are nice smooth cute looking thai guys willing to accept it.

Funny all this bla bla about short and long time rates. Your all farang! I heard other story's from boys in Pattaya and Phuket. How farang wait until the bar is closed to find a cheap boy and farang wake them up in the middle off the night for sex once again , the small tip in the morning and how the boy feel used !

And i even not talk about the huge amount farang is tipping to the boys in a bar, when the farang can not put his hands on the places where they belong. :clown:

[Jetsam]

Some guys do very well, living on a 3000 bht month room with a 5000 dollar television :clown:

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