Laos Wire Transfers -- Telex #???

[cdnmatt]

Doubt this will provide any useful info, because nobody else knows either, not even my Canadian bank.

Don't have any bitcoin at the moment (apparently, I'm going legitimate), and need to send my husband some money. I figured a wire transfer was the best way, I have his account#, SWIFT code, his name and address, bank name and address.

What I don't have, and am sure I need, is some type of branch or routing number. Asked for it, so Leo went to his bank, and they printed out a page with all info needed. Instead of a branch / routing number, I got a "Telex No". It's two 4 digit numbers separated by a comma.

I have no clue what this is, and have never heard about a "Telex" number in my life. My father says it was technology used back when he was a teenager, and he's nearing 70 now. I called my bank, the guy had no idea, so he asked his supervisor, and he had no idea either. They basically just said, "give the wire transfer a try, and see what happens".

Does anyone know what the hell a Telex# is? I don't want to send Western Union, as the fees are outrageous.

I think I'll probably just buy some bitcoin, and fire it off to a Thailand bank account which acts as a payment service similar to Western Union for Laos folk. Works great, and cheap. Even with all the fees of buying bitcoin, sending it to a Thai bank account, and that payment service taking their fee, it's still going to be about half of what Western Union would charge.

How the fuck is Western Union still in business?

[paborn]

I'm surprised your bank does not know. The technology is nowhere near that old. A telex predates modern computer routing. It was still in wide use in the late 1980's and late 90's. It consisted of a typewriter routed to international cable systems/ You used the telex routing number and typed and the receiving typewriter typed out the message on the other end.
The travel industry made international hotel reservations for hotels not hosted in the airline booking systems by telex. Before the advent of E-tickets, when paper stock was a must, the tickets needed to be printed with an IATA ( in the US ARC number) so to distribute tickets widely remote satellite ticket printers were used which were a part of the system.

The telex was also used to move money in those days as well. A Laotian bank still using that is odd. But, possible. Have you checked with the home office of your bank, not all branches have international departments. If you ordered foreign currency from your bank the bank they order the currency from would have the definitive answer.
While the tech is old it is not nearly that old.

[paborn]

By the way, totally off topic but have you read Colin Cotterill - he has a series of terrific mysteries set in Laos - all on kindle.

[scottish-guy]

The SWIFT code contains the Bank and the Branch - all you need is the SWIFT, the Account Number and the Name.

I do it every month, it works.

[cdnmatt]

No, an 8 character SWIFT code only denotes the bank within the international system, not the branch, which I'm sure I need.

As you said in your PM, a BIC would be perfect because that includes both, the SWIFT code and branch number. However, I didn't get that. I got some Telex# instead, and according to the above post, that technology has been obsolete for a good 30 years. So I'm not really comfortable sending to a telex# out of worry the bank here will format the wire message incorrectly, and it'll be sent into the ether never to be seen again. We're only talking about $1500, so not a huge amount, but nonetheless, I'd prefer not to lose it.

I'll just buy some bitcoin, and fire it off to that Thai payment service. We've used it many times, and it works great.

Then I'll be back in Asia in a couple weeks, and this will never happen again. I already have a bank card sitting here for him, so if we're apart again like this, I can just instantly flip money onto the card for free. Then I'll be incorporating in Hong Kong this winter probably, so we can just grab a joint personal account from HSBC while there for our daily spend.

This is just a one time only transfer, so I'll just buy bitcoin and do the Thai payment service.

[Nirish guy]

You also should have / get an IBAN number from him / his bank as that tell's your bank exactly where to send the money.

If in doubt google it - it's a every day thing now and a basic requirement for international transfers, A Swift code tells the other where the money is coming from and a Iban code where it's to go ( basically).

[cdnmatt]

IBAN is a Europe thing mainly, but you are right, it's an excellent system. All you need is the one single number, and that's it. Probably the best wire transfer system in the world.

Well, except bitcoin of course. :)

[Moses]

You also should have / get an IBAN number from him / his bank as that tell's your bank exactly where to send the money.

If in doubt google it - it's a every day thing now and a basic requirement for international transfers, A Swift code tells the other where the money is coming from and a Iban code where it's to go ( basically).

IBAN exists mainly in EU + some other countries (69 of 200+ countries in World). Laos isn't country which adopted IBAN system.

[Nirish guy]

Apologies - never entered my head to think had Laos adopted that as it's just something we use here almost every day so it comes across as second nature to us and so I "assumed" ( silly me) that the rest of the world was on board too........am I not right in saying China also uses IBAN too though ?

[Moses]

am I not right in saying China also uses IBAN too though ?

Sorry...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Bank_Account_Number

[Nirish guy]

got it......not China ( or Laos !) it seems ( I'm aware that our Chinese suppliers have asked for OUR Iban number numerous times so perhaps that's where I'm getting confused. But as SG says there getting his SWIFT number should do the trick.

[cdnmatt]

Neither Canada or the US are on IBAN either yet.

No, a 8 character SWIFT code only designates the bank, not the branch.

SG sends to a BIC, and that would work perfect, but I don't have that. I got some 30 year old telex# instead, and I'm not sending to that.

I'll do the bitcoin -> Thai payment service route.

[paborn]

I hesitated to post on one of Matt's endless voyages of discovery. I'm not trying to be unkind but I can't get past this:

Scotty wrote :"The SWIFT code contains the Bank and the Branch - all you need is the SWIFT, the Account Number and the Name.

I do it every month, it works."

Matt answers "no"

Sorry, but, while I've disagreed with Scotty on some topics - if he says he does it every damn month you have to accept that.

[cdnmatt]

SG sent me a PM, and no, he doesn't send to only a SWIFT code. He sends to a BIC.

Quite obviously, Vietnam has a more modern banking system than Laos does. There's only 7 million people in Laos, so it's not a huge surprise.

[scottish-guy]

If you say so Matt but the first four letters in any SWIFT code identifies the bank, the next two letters identifies the country, and the last two letters identifies the Branch. As I've said, all I need in addition to the SWIFT code therefore is the Account number and Name

I take the point you feel you need a BIC code as well - but just in case you're interested I found this list of SWIFT codes for Laos:

http://www.bankswiftcode.org/laos/

[frequent]

If you say so Matt but the first four letters in any SWIFT code identifies the bank, the next two letters identifies the country, and the last two letters identifies the Branch.Yes and no. I found this Australian example (https://www.commbank.com.au/support/faqs/757.html) rather good. But every time I use a SWIFT code for Thailand (ie. at least every month for a number of years) the last two letters are always XX (double the unknown quantity?) so clearly a specific branch is not mandatory

[cdnmatt]

I don't know, but I know all wire transfers to my Canadian bank use the same SWIFT code (TDOMCATTTOR) regardless of branch or location.

That, and Leo simply went into the bank, said he's getting a wire from Canada, and asked what information he needed to give the sender. They printed him a page of paper, which included a telex#, so I'm assuming the Laos bank is expecting that telex# to be included in the wire message. Maybe that telex# is optional, I have no idea, but I do know I'm not spending $1500 to find out.

That, and the call center of my bank has no idea what a telex# even is, so I have no idea if they'd send it through correctly or not, and again, not going to spend $1500 to find out.

Doesn't matter anyway. Already bought the bitcoin, now just have to wait until people in Bangkok wake up, so I can flip it into that Thai bank account. It's quicker this way anyway. With a wire he'd probably be waiting until Monday to get the money, whereas now he'll have it when he wakes up, or just afterwards.
Plus this way I don't have to bug my mother to take me down to the bank, and fumble around like a blind idiot trying to confirm it's the correct info, sign the paper, etc. I can just do this from home.

[cdnmatt]

And here's a good example of why bitcoin is good.

There's a reason I prefer being paid in bitcoin versus wire transfer. Don't have to deal with this shit.

[scottish-guy]

Well I had occasion recently to buy some bitcoin and the process for a newbie was extremely complicated

[frequent]

And here's a good example of why bitcoin is good. There's a reason I prefer being paid in bitcoin versus wire transfer. Don't have to deal with this shit.Given the wild volatility of the price of bitcoin it certainly isn't a store of value (one of the two purposes of a currency). Given its inefficiency as a medium of exchange (Scotty's example can be found exemplified a thousandfold on the Internet) it's really only of use to the mafia, blackmailers, drug dealers and pimps - people who want to remain anonymous for some nefarious reason and believe Bitcoin gives them that (as has been proven several times already, it doesn't). Individuals who want to move money around in a relatively frictionless way use wallets like Transferwise Borderless (https://transferwise.com/gb/borderless/)

[cdnmatt]

To each their own, I like bitcoin. I can just sit here behind my computer, and freely fire off money where ever in the world I want, drop money into different bank accounts in nearly any country within minutes, etc.

By no means am I some fan boy salesman like bruce_nyc was, but I like it at least, and am sticking with it.

[frequent]

To each their own, I like bitcoin. I can just sit here behind my computer, and freely fire off money where ever in the world I want, drop money into different bank accounts in nearly any country within minutes, etc.Just like Transferwise Borderless and without the volatility

[NitNoi]

The SWIFT code may include the branch or it may be a prefix to the account number.
Regarding the dreaded "telex#", could this be their fax number?

[cdnmatt]

No, it was two 4 digit numbers separated by a comma. Definitely not a fax#.

Doesn't matter, money is sent, and he has it now.

[francois]

matt, why did you even bother making this post? Just about 12 hours after your initial post you sent the money by bitcoin.

[frequent]

matt, why did you even bother making this post? Just about 12 hours after your initial post you sent the money by bitcoin.He didn't send the money by Bitcoin. He has a treasure trove of Bitcoin which, in order to use it in the real world, he converts it to a real world currency which he then deposits into a real world bank account. But don't challenge his fantasies; he wants us to believe he's living on the bleeding edge and as a Millennial he does things differently - and better, more "hip" than the rest of us

If was a true Bitcoin transaction it would, as you imply, be a transfer from his Bitcoin wallet to someone else's Bitcoin wallet and wouldn't go anywhere near the Lao banking system. And when I say "he converts" I mean "he uses the traditional money exchange dealers that us plebs use, just ones who also accept Bitcoin"

[Nirish guy]

To each their own, I like bitcoin. I can just sit here behind my computer, and freely fire off money where ever in the world I want, drop money into different bank accounts in nearly any country within minutes, etc. By no means am I some fan boy salesman like bruce_nyc was, but I like it at least, and am sticking with it.

So why then for your transfer did you not just use Bitcoin in the first place as you believe it to be so much easier to move ( and buy) and thus you would allegedly have avoided all of this phaffing about in the first place ? ( well, that is once some randomer wakes up in Bangkok to flip your bitcoin for you of course)

[frequent]

So why then for your transfer did you not just use Bitcoin in the first place as you believe it to be so much easier to move ( and buy) and thus you would allegedly have avoided all of this phaffing about in the first place ? ( well, that is once some randomer wakes up in Bangkok to flip your bitcoin for you of course)You don't understand, NIrish - Bitcoin is a new religion; you give up all rational belief to be part of "the future"

[arsenal]

Whenever I've sent money abroad I've always e-mailed the bank I'm sending money to and asked THEM what THEY want in terms of numbers and codes and this has been successful 100% of the time.

[cdnmatt]

matt, why did you even bother making this post? Just about 12 hours after your initial post you sent the money by bitcoin.

Because it's an Asia-centric forum, so I thought someone here may night what a telex# is. I got my answer in the first reply -- it's some technology that's been obsolete for a few decades now.

[frequent]

Because it's an Asia-centric forum, so I thought someone here may night what a telex# is. I got my answer in the first reply -- it's some technology that's been obsolete for a few decades now.Asia-centric, telex?? WTF?

[frequent]

Here's an article from this week's Economist - Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are "useless": https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/08/30/bitcoin-and-other-cryptocurrencies-are-useless

[Nirish guy]

I thought someone here may know what a telex# is. I got my answer in the first reply -- it's some technology that's been obsolete for a few decades now.

Just for clarity Matt - you DO know that a telex isn't the same as a Swift / Iban No etc but is a physical MACHINE - basically like an older version of a fax machine ( sort of ) where specific information or text and figures etc could be typed in to a keyboard at one end on someones telex machine and then received that the other end on the other persons telex machine and then printed by that machine on it's own usually actually printer onto a large ream of paper........think of a old TV newsroom and someone ripping a sheet of paper off the "telex machine" and handing it to the news presenter who usually opened with "this just in" as he then read the "latest news" just in off the "telex machine"

I think perhaps the person in the bank may have been referring to you needing to do a "telegraphic transfer" of funds ( which used to be performed by telex machine - but that has been superseded by all manner of the usual more modern means of communication now ( and Swift and BIC No's etc - but who knows, is maybe still used in Laos and THAT is what they were thinking ! ??

I'd be interested to hear do (UK) banks still even HAVE Telex machines at their disposal in branches if anyone knows - I'll have to ask when next in my local branch.....if I can ever find one now ?

[paborn]

"I'd be interested to hear do (UK) banks still even HAVE Telex machines at their disposal in branches if anyone knows - I'll have to ask when next in my local branch.....if I can ever find one now ?"

I can't say about UK banks but from what I know about Western Union the remnants of the telex system is what is used, banks used the system and called it wire transfer, as in "wiring funds" I think you will find that the computer systems came in and added to the system with ease of use. In the days of my long lost youth, our office Telex was locked in a room to restrict access.

Frankly. I think Matt's issue could have been solved with a discussion with a real banker rather one of the cafeteria type workers we have today. That's why I suggested he talk to the international department at an HQ bank and not waste time with call centers and branch banks. They are clueless; the "obsolete" telex he talks about is not that old ( I'm still alive thank you very much ) and it undermines the modern systems.

[cdnmatt]

@NIrish -- You're probably right, and they just included that telex# as an alternative method they support, but by no means was it required to be used.

I don't know. Besides, the SWIFT code Leo got was SCBLUS33, and a quick Google revelas that to be the New York branch of Standard Chartered Bank. Potentitally fine, as many banks route their wires through the US like that, but who knows.

That, and I didn't even have any actual street addresses for either, Leo or the bank. Just drstrict names. I don't even think they have house / building numbers out there -- everyone just setup shop and home in a big field.

*shrug* Doesn't matter anymore anyway.