Sunee Plaza, Boyztown and underage guys?

[CambodiaVisitor]

I was in Pattaya in November 2016 and had a great time with the locals on Grindr and at the local bars, etc. I have heard that lots of underage guys work in the gogo bars in Patraya. How can I avoid them and make sure my tricks are not underage? I don't understand the Thai year number so that is one of my problems. Is there a way to prevent hooking up with someone under 18? I saw lots of very young looking dancers at a bar in boystown so I am assuming that it goes on. Any helpful info?

[DrewSpz]

I think it won’t be a problem. They just look young due to their beautiful Asian genes. They’re all of age. The have to carry their IDs on them, the police can come check the bar anytime and the owner faces arrest if minors are there. AND any hotel you take them to will collect and check their ID upon you brining them in.

I’d say it will only be an issue if you’re using the apps and taking someone back to a condo/ apartment without security, like through AirBnB

[CambodiaVisitor]

Thank you for the reassurance. The hotel checked the ID of a boy I took to my room, but in retrospect I thought he looked a little young so I wanted to be sure. I did not see any obvious young guys on grindr but looks can be deceiving.

[paborn]

I am always very carefull in every country about this. I tend to stay in Gay or gay oriented places and I ask the person taking the ID at the desk to check so it is clear. Last trip I brought someone back to Ambience who ID showed that was 18 in the current year but did not give a month. What this ID was I do not know, but I brought him back to the bar and the manager gave him hell from not having his proper ID with him. Honestly, if you are unsure of the IDs you are more at risk with the apps.

[CambodiaVisitor]

Is the age of concent in Thailand 18 for tourists but 16 for locals?

[gerefan2]

I look at their ID before I leave the bar for several reasons:

1. To make sure he actually has ID! Some don't and show you silly things like Gym membership cards!
2. To make sure, as much as I can, that it is HIS ID. You can only go by the pic, so not easy.
3. To check his age. The new, genuine, Thai ID has the age in our calendar years as well as Thai years. If its only in Thai (unlikely nowadays) then just do the sums. 2018 is 2561. So your guy needs to be born before 2543. Simple.

If you cannot read the month then make sure he is 19!

The minimum age is 18, BUT the Thais count the first year of their lives as 1, so sometimes a person may say he is 20, but in our terms he is only 19...how this works legally I have no idea.

If in doubt stick to19 yo's

[frequent]

Is the age of concent in Thailand 18 for tourists but 16 for locals?15 for Thai locals and 18 where prostitution is involved irrespective of whether the customer is Thai or not

[gerefan2]

15 for Thai locals and 18 where prostitution is involved irrespective of whether the customer is Thai or not

How can that be ? Prostitution is illegal in Thailand so how can there be a “legal” age limit? Agreed it is normally taken as 18.

[frequent]

How can that be ? Prostitution is illegal in Thailand so how can there be a “legal” age limit? Agreed it is normally taken as 18.Do try not to display your complete ignorance of Thailand gerefan2. This law is well known. As I recall Utopia Asia displays a warning about this on their Thailand page. See the Thailand section of this Wikipedia entry for details of the specific legislation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Asia

[gerefan2]

15 for Thai locals and 18 where prostitution is involved irrespective of whether the customer is Thai or not

Firstly, please tell me what you mean by saying "15 for Thai LOCALS". Not a farang and a local Thai person? How can that be?

Secondly,where prostitution is concerned there are punishments for having sex with a prostitute under 18. We all know that. Nowhere does it give an "age of consent" for prostitution of 18. As I said you cannot have a legal age where an activity itself is illegal.

And finally, please explain why you have said "and 18 where prostitution is involved irrespective of WHETHER THE CUSTOMER IS THAI OR NOT?"

Why do you think Nationality comes into it?

[frequent]

Firstly, please tell me what you mean by saying "15 for Thai LOCALS". Not a farang and a local Thai person? How can that be?

Secondly,where prostitution is concerned there are punishments for having sex with a prostitute under 18. We all know that. Nowhere does it give an "age of consent" for prostitution of 18. As I said you cannot have a legal age where an activity itself is illegal.

And finally, please explain why you have said "and 18 where prostitution is involved irrespective of WHETHER THE CUSTOMER IS THAI OR NOT?" Why do you think Nationality comes into it?As I say, gerefan2, you are a total waste of space which is why I have you on my Ignore list. I happened to come across your ignorant questions because I was viewing What's New while logged out, but if you think I'm going to enter into a debate with a complete ignoramus who contributes nothing of value to the Forum you can think again

[gerefan2]

There you go Arsenal, that's how you get on his INfamous Ignore list (well I am when it suits him, obviously)!!

Beers all round!!

[arsenal]

I'm pretty sure I read that in Thailand prostitution is illegal for the prostitute but not the John. As for the id, get the hotel receptionist to give it the once over.

[paborn]

I hesitate to speak up as I am, by no means, an expert. But, I think there is a confusion arising from the consequences of the act. If you have sex with a prostitute under 18 you are guilty of statutory rape - a serious crime. Paying for sex over 18 is nowhere near as serious a thing. Also, you are unlikely to have any issues - statutory rape is the real danger.

By the way, there is also a possibility, however, remote that your home nation's laws may apply. An American can, in theory, be charged with statutory rape if the partner is under 18 - regardless of the age of consent in the nation where the act was committed. Rare, but it has happened.

[frequent]

I'm pretty sure I read that in Thailand prostitution is illegal for the prostitute but not the John. As for the id, get the hotel receptionist to give it the once over.I suggest you get an underage prostitute, have sex with him and then get someone to report it to the police. Then you can report back on your findings of illegality

[arsenal]

Sorry to tell you gerefan2 but you are NOT currently on freakybum's ignore list. His claim doesnt make sense as his posting history means he is never logged out. He read your post and then posted to tell you he doesn't read your posts. Ha fucking ha. I wonder what he'll do with this one.

[paborn]

I suggest you get an underage prostitute, have sex with him and then get someone to report it to the police. Then you can report back on your findings of illegality

He said nothing about "underage" you added that yourself - typical.

[arsenal]

No. I'm not on his list either. Dagnabbit. Frequent is currently in one of his foul vindictive morning moods so anyone posting is going to evoke the stuff you're seeing now. He usually stops posting after about 11.00, for a while at least.

[frequent]

No. I'm not on his list either. Dagnabbit.As I've said before, occasionally I go slumming

[gerefan2]

Sorry to tell you gerefan2 but you are NOT currently on freakybum's ignore list. His claim doesnt make sense as his posting history means he is never logged out. He read your post and then posted to tell you he doesn't read your posts. Ha fucking ha. I wonder what he'll do with this one.

Good spot...3 posts in 7 minutes including my rebuffal!

Gutted...

[frequent]

No. I'm not on his list either. Dagnabbit. Frequent is currently in one of his foul vindictive morning moods so anyone posting is going to evoke the stuff you're seeing now. He usually stops posting after about 11.00, for a while at least.Anyone? Really?

[arsenal]

i went clubbing ladt night and was literally dragged to tables to drink with stunning Chinese boys before being manhandled onto the dance floor for some gyrating moves. Yea..I still got it. Anyway I'm going again on Sunday night and I would like to issue an invitation to frequent to join me because if anyone needs a fucking good night out it's you. I'll even buy you a drink and my favourite guy makes it so strong you only need the one.

[frequent]

i went clubbing ladt night and was literally dragged to tables to drink with stunning Chinese boys before being manhandled onto the dance floor for some gyrating moves. Yea..I still got it. Anyway I'm going again on Sunday night and I would like to issue an invitation to frequent to join me because if anyone needs a fucking good night out it's you. I'll even buy you a drink and my favourite guy makes it so strong you only need the one.When I say I occasionally going slumming I don't mean I get down and dirty with the dregs

[arsenal]

No, but we have to when we discourse with you.

[frequent]

No, but we have to when we discourse with you.The solution is entirely in your own hands, arsenal - put me on your Ignore list

[arsenal]

Never. I like watching you mentally disintegrate.

[frequent]

Never. I like watching you mentally disintegrate.A quick check shows that 50% of your posts on average are about me; on some days that rises to 100%. Fascinating as I am, that reads like stalking to me. gerefan2 is not far behind those statistics. Perhaps the Mods should take note of this perverse behaviour

[arsenal]

The mods, the mods
The gods, the gods
Wil they not rid me of the sods, the sods.

[Up2U]

To the OP'S question, Thai id's are in English and you do not have to do a conversion. Underage sex in Pattaya gay bars is no longer an issue, underage sex in Cambodia is another story.

[kittyboy]

i went clubbing ladt night and was literally dragged to tables to drink with stunning Chinese boys before being manhandled onto the dance floor for some gyrating moves.

I taught in China for 6 years. There were 100k+ students within 10 km of me and I was often hit up by younger 18-25 year old Chinese guys.
They are cute. Glad you had fun. Your comments bring back fond memories of my time in China.

[frequent]

To the OP'S question, Thai id's are in English and you do not have to do a conversion. Underage sex in Pattaya gay bars is no longer an issue, underage sex in Cambodia is another story.Thank god we're back on track. The age of consent in Cambodia is 15 - https://www.ageofconsent.net/world/cambodia - so "underage" there is 14 and below whereas in Thailand it is 17 and below where prostitution is involved

[gerefan2]

A quick check shows that 50% of your posts on average are about me; on some days that rises to 100%. Fascinating as I am, that reads like stalking to me. gerefan2 is not far behind those statistics. Perhaps the Mods should take note of this perverse behaviour

But you just told me I'm on your Ignore list, so how do you know what my posts are about? What a prat.

[arsenal]

Kittyboy. I took a western friend with me last night, I actually got him out of bed to come with me. (not my bed) He couldn't believe how much fun we had and just how friendly and up for it the entire place was. It was a party. If you could get a club with that atmosphere going in London or New York you'd have them queuing round the block. Actually Subway in Birmingham and a few places in London have managed it and they did have them queuing round the block. Literally.

PS. Last night all the lovely host boys were dressed in thin red shorts, sleeveless white tops and red sailor caps. Cute doesn't even begin to describe it.

[arsenal]

Some not very good photos.

[Old git]

Two things:

1) As an 'aide memoire' think 'quick countdown' when converting Thai dates to Western ones - the Thai calendar is 543 years ahead

2) The Thai statute book is chock full of laws that are never enforced, and it's not unknown for them to pass the same law twice. The key thing to understand is that you are very unlikely to get prosecuted for anything in Thailand, except in one of two situations:

a) It gives the local population an easy excuse to get money off you, either as a fine or bribe to the Police

b) You've seriously upset someone

Should a boy lie about his age and you get caught out by a fake or borrowed ID, the chances are that his only motive was to get the regular money for having sex with you, so don't panic too much. However, in case he then gabs and someone else scents a payoff, you'd be well advised to check out of your hotel and relocate to another area as soon as you find out. Moreover, don't confide in anyone - either Thai or farang - and don't under any circumstances joke or brag about it.

On the infrequent occasions that farangs find themselves in court for underage activity, they've usually been complete idiots and massively indiscreet. The Thais don't like the publicity of those cases, and for all types of offences are not keen on the hassle and cost of locking up farangs. Summary deportation for those who misbehave is quite routine.

[frequent]

On the infrequent occasions that farangs find themselves in court for underage activity, they've usually been complete idiots and massively indiscreet. The Thais don't like the publicity of those cases, and for all types of offences are not keen on the hassle and cost of locking up farangs. Summary deportation for those who misbehave is quite routine.Have you forgotten the propensity to suck up to Western NGOs and other Western do-gooders provided such sucking up costs Thailand nothing? It's well-known that the largest group of pedophiles in Thailand are the Japanese but you'll rarely see the arrest of a Japanese reported

[Nirish guy]

I thought we were meant to to have TWO subjects that simply weren't to be raised / discussed / brought to the board......and surely this (under) age related discussion at any level this is one of them ? Whether it's dressed up as "I want to be sure I never to make a mistake" etc, surely it's still the same topic - just with the point reversed ? As already I see we're now talking about consent limits and 14 year olds and how that should be avoided etc :-( Some things / topics just shouldn't NEED to be discussed - surely - as whilst we all may just be having a conversation that's sure as hell not how it looks to other visitors glancing over the board I'm sure ?

[Old git]

' Have you forgotten the propensity to suck up to Western NGOs and other Western do-gooders provided such sucking up costs Thailand nothing? '

- Which is why I said to confide in no-one..

Mind you, the NGOs spend most of their time inventing lurid stories to back up their claims for funding.

' It's well-known that the largest group of pedophiles in Thailand are the Japanese but you'll rarely see the arrest of a Japanese reported '

The Japanese have their own curious little world in Thailand - the numbers of Japanese tourists are pretty huge, but you hardly ever see them in the regular bars and restaurants..

[Old git]

' I thought we were meant to to have TWO subjects that simply weren't to be raised / discussed / brought to the board......and surely this (under) age related discussion at any level this is one of them ? Whether it's dressed up as "I want to be sure I never do my mistake" etc, it's still the same topic (surely ?) '

A decision for the mods of course, and I would personally agree that we should never discuss anything that even remotely amounted to a 'how to find' guide.

Thailand has an undeserved reputation in this regard - one sees hardly any sex workers of questionable age, and an awful lot that should have retired from the game many years ago..

There is one country I've frequently visited on business, has no reputation for sex tourism, yet the female sex workers there are in almost every hotel and often in their mid to early teens. Will I say where? - Absolutely not..

[frequent]

The Japanese have their own curious little world in Thailand - the numbers of Japanese tourists are pretty huge, but you hardly ever see them in the regular bars and restaurants.Stickman reported on several occasions that the girls who work in the Japanese hostess bars on Thaniya had to give the impression they had never been with a Westerner

[Nirish guy]

......had to give the impression they had never been with a Westerner

ha ha I know many Thai guys who've worked the bars for years and on encountering a "newbie" happily roll out their tried and tested story ( as backed up by the manasan) of "I just work bar one week already, I not like it here in Pattaya, I shy, I think maybe I just go home to Issan again maybe, but..... I like you, I don't know why, I think you have good heart and you take care me, so maybe I go with you one time to try, if I go with you WILL you take care me?"

Ha, so maybe our Thai's and Japanese friends aren't that different in that regard at both being damned good actors when it suits them - mind you I'm a dab hand at " Ohhhh I very rich, if I have good time with you ohhhhhh I tip you SOOOO well" ........and after wards .....so, here's your 500 baht, thanks! :) lol ( ok I'm joking I wouldn't "really' (get away with) do that.

[Old git]

Real newbies to the bar scene are characterised by saying virtually nothing - either because they have never learned much English or because they have never practised their English with a real farang - let alone in the noise of a bar. In addition, they are almost always shy and a bit nervous

Another big giveaway is that the genuine newbie usually has an old lag assigned to look after them and help with the talking/negotiation with the customers..

[Nirish guy]

Oh MAYBE ,......they just want us to THINK that ! :-)

Thailand.....the Country where nothing is quite what it seems at first ! lol

[lonelywombat]

Two things:
Should a boy lie about his age and you get caught out by a fake or borrowed ID, the chances are that his only motive was to get the regular money for having sex with you, so don't panic too much. However, in case he then gabs and someone else scents a payoff, you'd be well advised to check out of your hotel and relocate to another area as soon as you find out. Moreover, don't confide in anyone - either Thai or farang - and don't under any circumstances joke or brag about it.



oldgit seems to be unaware that if you change hotels, your passport details are forwarded by your new hotel to immigration,and probably BIB within 24 hours

[Nirish guy]

But ARE they ?? I was aways under the (perhaps false) assumption that the requirement was that the hotel was required to get and keep the details of all guests on file - for checking by the authorities if they ever decided they needed too. Surely every hotel in Thailand doesn't report the movements and lodging of every guest, EVERY day, that would be a mammoth under taking for any Country and I doubt Thailand would be capable / interested in even having that information - updated on a DAILY basis - am I wrong ??

[arsenal]

No. All details are legally to be forwarded to the police within 24 hours regardless of anything. This is a fact and has been for a few years.

[lonelywombat]

Your passport details are copied when you register. Reception sends that to immigration
If you change hotels which I did recently, on arrival their reception does the same.
When you apply to lengthen your visa,you need a photocopy of receptions advice

I noticed the official notices in the foyer but did not think it impacted me.
It has been suggested this tightening will lead to problems leaving the country for those who think they are above the law.

[frequent]

Google TM30 Thailand. The extent to which it is enforced is hotly debated, in particular the responsibility of condominium managements for privately rented apartments

[Nirish guy]

Whilst I’m fully aware of passport photocopy being taken and kept on file etc for the BIB to check later if they wish surely though IF that same information IS updated and passed live ( or with 24 hours) to the BIB or immigration then why are there overstayers still residing in Thai hotels ?

Surely if their system was THAT tight it would Simply be a matter of the BIB attending forthwith to arrest all and any overstayers at the point check in or shortly after as they would be fully aware of their exact residences at all times ?

Or surely then the BIB could blacklist an overstayers passport the minute their visa expired and so require a hotel to call them if said guest had checked in with them - either instantly or behind the guests back ?

[paborn]

I know each hotel, recently exteded to any property owner, renting space to non-Thais must forward registration material. However, every restaurant that takes your card for payment forwards it on to the card provider. The new systems are online and the bill shows up in your account quickly. I suspect that Thai immigration is where credit cards were 15 to 20 years ago , hotels and property owners sent the info in and someone has to enter it into the data bases. I have no idea of the lag but with the mass of tourists every day I would say they are never current.

[arsenal]

This is perhaps one reason why airbnb is not popular, it's lack of transparent information regarding who's staying there.

[lonelywombat]

Whilst I’m fully aware of passport photocopy being taken and kept on file etc for the BIB to check later if they wish surely though IF that same information IS updated and passed live ( or with 24 hours) to the BIB or immigration then why are there overstayers still residing in Thai hotels ?

Surely if their system was THAT tight it would Simply be a matter of the BIB attending forthwith to arrest all and any overstayers at the point check in or shortly after as they would be fully aware of their exact residences at all times ?

Or surely then the BIB could blacklist an overstayers passport the minute their visa expired and so require a hotel to call them if said guest had checked in with them - either instantly or behind the guests back ?
We are talking here about short time visa holders.
But there are those with long term visa, who have not had problems,yet.
But sooner or later it will catch up to them.

[Old git]

' oldgit seems to be unaware that if you change hotels, your passport details are forwarded by your new hotel to immigration,and probably BIB within 24 hours '

Refer back to my first post - unless you've really upset someone, or mouthed off about your exploits, the BIB are very unlikely to go digging - they like easy targets..

[frequent]

Whilst I’m fully aware of passport photocopy being taken and kept on file etc for the BIB to check later if they wish surely though IF that same information IS updated and passed live ( or with 24 hours) to the BIB or immigration then why are there overstayers still residing in Thai hotels ?

Surely if their system was THAT tight it would Simply be a matter of the BIB attending forthwith to arrest all and any overstayers at the point check in or shortly after as they would be fully aware of their exact residences at all times ?

Or surely then the BIB could blacklist an overstayers passport the minute their visa expired and so require a hotel to call them if said guest had checked in with them - either instantly or behind the guests back ?
TIT

[Nirish guy]

We are talking here about short time visa holders.
But there are those with long term visa, who have not had problems,yet.
But sooner or later it will catch up to them.

We weren't really talking of any particular group - whether short term or long term overstayers surely the same issues would apply and considering you're required to show your passport for even buying a new SIM card for your mobile phone now one would assume that that point of that is tracking your activity / location etc ( and if they deicded something on your phone wasn't right one would assume then that they would also have your hotel details to come and arrest you quite quickly.

Now that I think of it their system COULDN'T be THAT live as when in Phuket the other week I purchased a new SIm card and by accident had brought a photocopy of an old and out of date passport with me, which the girl in the shop accepted without realising or questioning ( I was aware of it and thought I'd say nothing to see what happened) - bottom line it went through and I was issued with a working SIM, so one would assume that THAT system isn't quite as live as we're lead to believe perhaps either - or MAYBE they're just happy enough having my ID to peg it to, whether that be out of date or not, I dont know.

Actually as oppoosed to all of us guessing and wondering - maybe someone in Country could quietly ask their next friendly hotel manager and see what THEY think happens to the info they provide ( and askIS that live or one a daily basis via some online portal or whatever ? ha but all without asking TOO much or YOU might fiind yourself getting a visit from said BIB asking why you're asking ! :)

[Old git]

Yes, the hotel operators have certain reporting requirements, and they can be fined for failing to comply, but the fact that the BIB never seem to pick up on people overstaying their visas until they leave the country or get into trouble tells us that all this data is not being dutifully logged and cross-checked.

[Old git]

' you're required to show your passport for even buying a new SIM card for your mobile phone '

That was due specifically to combat the Islamic terrorist threat and their use of mobile phones to detonate bombs. Unfortunately at the last count they had switched to using Malaysian SIMs - which was, perhaps, just too predictable..

[lonelywombat]

Yes, the hotel operators have certain reporting requirements, and they can be fined for failing to comply, but the fact that the BIB never seem to pick up on people overstaying their visas until they leave the country or get into trouble tells us that all this data is not being dutifully logged and cross-checked.Sorry you forget those with short or long term visa that have to be renewed

[Old git]

' Sorry you forget those with short or long term visa that have to be renewed '

There's plenty that don't and live below the radar..

[Nirish guy]

' you're required to show your passport for even buying a new SIM card for your mobile phone '

That was due specifically to combat the Islamic terrorist threat and their use of mobile phones to detonate bombs. Unfortunately at the last count they had switched to using Malaysian SIMs - which was, perhaps, just too predictable..


And considering I used a VERY old, wrinkled, scrappy photocopy of an out of date passport, presented to a 16 year old girl behind the counter, who had I'm sure NO idea whether the pic on the passport was me or not as lets face it we proabably all look the same to them half times - it just shows how daft / useless their new anti Islamic terrorist deterrent system that she had to punch my details into on her machine ACTUALLY is then eh.......why am I not surprised.

[Old git]

.. so will they now remove the law requiring ID for SIMS? - no, partly to avoid losing face, and partly so the BIB can fine the poor 7/11 franchisee who fails to keep proper records.

Thus, I suspect it is with hotel reporting - not some massive Big Brother exercise - but a bureaucratic rule that isn't backed up by routine processing of the data gathered.

[frequent]

And considering I used a VERY old, wrinkled, scrappy photocopy of an out of date passport, presented to a 16 year old girl behind the counter, who had I'm sure NO idea whether the pic on the passport was me or not as lets face it we proabably all look the same to thenm half times - it just shows how daft / useless their new anti Islamic terrorist deterrent system that she had to punch my details into on her machine ACTUALLY then works eh.......why am I not surprised.Have you forgotten that this is Asia - appearance trumps substance every time, the whole basis of “face”?

[sglad]

The minimum age is 18, BUT the Thais count the first year of their lives as 1, so sometimes a person may say he is 20, but in our terms he is only 19...how this works legally I have no idea.

The law will only look at what is written on the ID and not what the ID holder says.

And forget all this mumbo jumbo about age of consent for locals/foreigners/prostitutes/johns whatever. Good luck arguing all that with the arresting officer if caught. Just make sure the boy's ID says he's at least 18 at the time you're about to have sex with him and that you've taken reasonable steps to ensure that his ID is legit. The rest is up to the goodwill of the officer concerned.

[Nirish guy]

The rest is up to the goodwill of the officer concerned.


The rest is up to the goodwill ( or the required depth of the pockets) of the officer concerned,

[Jellybean]

I thought we were meant to to have TWO subjects that simply weren't to be raised / discussed / brought to the board......and surely this (under) age related discussion at any level this is one of them ? Whether it's dressed up as "I want to be sure I never to make a mistake" etc, surely it's still the same topic - just with the point reversed ? As already I see we're now talking about consent limits and 14 year olds and how that should be avoided etc :-( Some things / topics just shouldn't NEED to be discussed - surely - as whilst we all may just be having a conversation that's sure as hell not how it looks to other visitors glancing over the board I'm sure ?

Your post at #37, quoted above NIrish-guy is quite correct. And much as I hate to be known as a killjoy, but I believe it is worth reminding members what the rule actually states:


3.2.3 There are some topics that may not be discussed and which may put the Board in jeopardy. These are:
• The discussion of underage sex or the involvement of any persons in this illegal activity.

After 7 pages of explanation, I would guess that the question raised by CambodiaVisitor could now be considered to have been well and truly answered.

[sglad]

The rest is up to the goodwill of the officer concerned.

Sorry, I meant to say that the rest is up to the discretion of the officer concerned.

[Nirish guy]

Sorry, I meant to say that the rest is up to the discretion of the officer concerned.

Oh I'm sure he'd be VERY discrete..... as he slips the money into his trouser pocket, hell you'd hardly even notice it going in there I bet ! :)

[sglad]

Oh I'm sure he'd be VERY discrete..... as he slips the money into his trouser pocket, hell you'd hardly even notice it going in there I bet ! :)

Discreet even.

[Nirish guy]

Discreet even.

Yes, that too. But you already knew that of course didn’t you .... and yet you still just couldn’t stop yourself could you :- ) oh well i’m glad I brightened up your day a little if nothing else.there.