To rent or to buy?

[poshglasgow]

For those flirting with the idea of moving to Thailand for retirement, what would be the advice of members when it comes to arranging accommodation? Negotiate a long-term deal with a favourite hotel? Buy an apartment/bungalow or rent a condo? Buying, I suspect, is the riskiest option by virtue of the capital invested unless one could rely on selling it esaily. Renting a hotel suite (bedroom, living room, bathroom) would alleviate the concerns over cleaning, utility bills etc.
Over to you! What do you think? Ex-pat SGT members living in Thailand, what arrangement would you recommend?

[Manforallseasons]

If you are planning to live in Thailand because of its sexual delights it is far from the place it once was and it continues to decline.......I suggest you rent a furnished apartment of which there is no shortage.....By doing this if L.O.S. loses its novelty you can just pack your bags and go!

[sglad]

If you are planning to live in Thailand because of its sexual delights it is far from the place it once was and it continues to decline.......I suggest you rent a furnished apartment of which there is no shortage.....By doing this if L.O.S. loses its novelty you can just pack your bags and go!

...or fly down, jump off, tip over, etc.

[scottish-guy]

If you are planning to live in Thailand because of its sexual delights it is far from the place it once was and it continues to decline.......

Everything is comparative to where one is now and the one rent boy in Bearsden has put his prices up and is getting more picky (not to mention he's now 63yo) - so Thailand is still a draw :p

But yes - absolutely - rent a home, don't buy. Could be one less reason for your new Thai husband to push you over the balcony. Plus (the real reason), as MFAS says, you're not tied to anything and you can fly as free as the wee cock sparra' that sat in the tree

[sglad]

But yes - absolutely - rent a home, don't buy. Could be one less reason for your new Thai husband to push you over the balcony.

You are sooo cynical, scottish-guy. I hope your post doesn't dissuade a447 from pursuing his newfound love interest and investing in that highrise condo in Pattaya. Nothing lower than the 20th floor, a447, and no bars on the windows, please. They serve no purpose other than to block the view.

[Jellybean]

My advice, poshglasgow would be to rent a furnished condo just as Manforallseasons recommended or, depending on your taste and your financial means, a villa or a house might suit your circumstances better.

Normally, I spend around 6 months of the year in Thailand. I would not contemplate living there on a permanent basis as, for most of the last 15 years, I have had health issues which required me to see surgeons back in the UK. And put simply, because I happen to enjoy being back in the UK in the spring, summer and autumn. Six months is just fine for me, I look forward to going to Thailand and, after six months, I look forward to coming back home.

To begin with I bought a three bedroom villa with a swimming pool in Hua Hin, which at the time was quite cheap. I rented it out during the months I was not resident. At the time, every ex-pat, gay or straight whom I met, informed me they had bought their properties, so it seemed sensible to follow suit. I don’t think it even occurred to me at that time to rent a property. Also at that time, the exchange rate for the GBP was very favourable at around 75-70 Baht to the GBP, which turned out to be a major factor when I came to sell (see below).

Then, while I still owned the villa, after several years, happily my health started to improve, so I bought a condo in Bangkok, as my preference is to live in big cities. And, to be frank, I also wanted to be closer to the gay commercial action. But I continued to travel down to the villa for the occasional long weekend or for a 7-10 day stopover, depending on the availability of the villa.

I think I owned the house for 10 or more years before I decided to sell it. As a side issue, but it was important at the time, I was unable to sell the villa earlier for various complicated reasons, which mainly involved a joint court action with my eleven neighbours against our developer. I mentioned elsewhere on the forum how easy it was to sell (see the following link: https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?19996-Bangkok-report-July-2018/page10 and look at post #92 on page 10). And, as I mentioned above, by the time I came to sell the villa, the exchange rate had dropped significantly, so although I did not make much of a capital gain in Thai Baht, once converted to GBP, I made a handsome gain, which attracted liability to Capital Gains Tax back in the UK.

I also owned my Bangkok condo for around 10 years and sold it last year. Unfortunately, the selling process was not as simple; I think it took around 4 months to complete the legal process. And repatriating the sale proceeds back to the UK was a hellishly complicated matter. Despite going to the head office of my bank with every conceivable form and document from the purchase and sale of my condo, including the original bank transfer form and receiving bank passbook, the bank refused to allow me to remit the money back to the UK. They told me Thai law required them to submit a report to the Bank of Thailand for authorisation. And, unbelievably, my bank then went on to prepare a 4 page report to the Bank of Thailand in English and Thai, which I had to approve, requesting permission to remit my money to the UK! It was exactly the same amount I had sent to Thailand 10 years earlier and all that was required then was a 10 minute visit to my local bank to complete an international money transfer form! And I most definitely did not require the permission of the Bank of England to send the money to Thailand!

On another three occasions I returned to the Thai bank head office and had to answer questions or produce documents that only my former solicitor in Bangkok could provide. By the time I left Thailand in mid-April 2017, and after waiting 4 long weeks, my bank head office had still not received authorisation from the Bank of Thailand to send my own money to the UK!

It was 6 weeks later, after I arrived back in the UK, and following numerous exchanges of emails between me and my bank before I eventually received my money. But despite receiving exactly the same amount of Thai Baht that I paid for the condo, once converted to GBP, yet again I made a handsome gain, which attracted Capital Gains Tax in the UK. So, all in all, a bit of a bureaucratic nightmare, poshglasgow, something you might want to bear in mind.

And one thing I have not mentioned, but which I also think is important, renting a property allows for maximum flexibility. If you don’t like the property, or if you want to move to another town or city, it is far easier to up sticks and move when you rent property. And if you own a property in the UK, I would also recommend keeping it and renting it out as the rental income will come in as a useful supplement your pension and/or other income. And if things don’t work out as you planned or if you would like to return to your property from time to time, having a property back in the UK is a very convenient safety net.

In conclusion, and for all of the above reasons, I recommend renting a property in Thailand. Of course, others may well have a different experience from me and they are free to offer you alternative advice.

[goji]

As a not yet retired person, I see 3 options for this

1 Buy something
2 Rent, but knowing there is a risk of your home currency falling against the baht, making this much more expensive.
3 Rent & hedge by moving some of your investments to overseas stocks, funds or investment trusts, therefore reducing currency risk.


Having seen how older apartment complexes eventually appear to be more neglected & how currencies behave, I prefer option 3.

[cdnmatt]

Personally, I'd never buy. Rent is extremely cheap in Thailand anyway, so buying doesn't make much sense.

- Life is fluid and things tend to change with time, so if you ever decide to relocate, it's no problem.
- Laws change on a virtual whim in Thailand, and you may find yourself in a bad situation.
- You can only own a condo, not a house (at least not the land on it)
- If you ever have a dispute with the owner / landlord / property managers, it may be difficult to get resolved, leaving you in a bad position if you own. If you're renting, then no problem, and just grab a new place.

[poshglasgow]

Everything is comparative to where one is now and the one rent boy in Bearsden has put his prices up and is getting more picky (not to mention he's now 63yo) - so Thailand is still a draw :p

But yes - absolutely - rent a home, don't buy. Could be one less reason for your new Thai husband to push you over the balcony. Plus (the real reason), as MFAS says, you're not tied to anything and you can fly as free as the wee cock sparra' that sat in the tree

Do you know, I may very well have been in class with the 63yo rent boy: we'd be around the same age!

Many thanks SG for the input.

[poshglasgow]

My advice, poshglasgow would be to rent a furnished condo just as Manforallseasons recommended or, depending on your taste and your financial means, a villa or a house might suit your circumstances better.

Normally, I spend around 6 months of the year in Thailand. I would not contemplate living there on a permanent basis as, for most of the last 15 years, I have had health issues which required me to see surgeons back in the UK. And put simply, because I happen to enjoy being back in the UK in the spring, summer and autumn. Six months is just fine for me, I look forward to going to Thailand and, after six months, I look forward to coming back home.

To begin with I bought a three bedroom villa with a swimming pool in Hua Hin, which at the time was quite cheap. I rented it out during the months I was not resident. At the time, every ex-pat, gay or straight whom I met, informed me they had bought their properties, so it seemed sensible to follow suit. I don’t think it even occurred to me at that time to rent a property. Also at that time, the exchange rate for the GBP was very favourable at around 75-70 Baht to the GBP, which turned out to be a major factor when I came to sell (see below).

Then, while I still owned the villa, after several years, happily my health started to improve, so I bought a condo in Bangkok, as my preference is to live in big cities. And, to be frank, I also wanted to be closer to the gay commercial action. But I continued to travel down to the villa for the occasional long weekend or for a 7-10 day stopover, depending on the availability of the villa.

I think I owned the house for 10 or more years before I decided to sell it. As a side issue, but it was important at the time, I was unable to sell the villa earlier for various complicated reasons, which mainly involved a joint court action with my eleven neighbours against our developer. I mentioned elsewhere on the forum how easy it was to sell (see the following link: https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?19996-Bangkok-report-July-2018/page10 and look at post #92 on page 10). And, as I mentioned above, by the time I came to sell the villa, the exchange rate had dropped significantly, so although I did not make much of a capital gain in Thai Baht, once converted to GBP, I made a handsome gain, which attracted liability to Capital Gains Tax back in the UK.

I also owned my Bangkok condo for around 10 years and sold it last year. Unfortunately, the selling process was not as simple; I think it took around 4 months to complete the legal process. And repatriating the sale proceeds back to the UK was a hellishly complicated matter. Despite going to the head office of my bank with every conceivable form and document from the purchase and sale of my condo, including the original bank transfer form and receiving bank passbook, the bank refused to allow me to remit the money back to the UK. They told me Thai law required them to submit a report to the Bank of Thailand for authorisation. And, unbelievably, my bank then went on to prepare a 4 page report to the Bank of Thailand in English and Thai, which I had to approve, requesting permission to remit my money to the UK! It was exactly the same amount I had sent to Thailand 10 years earlier and all that was required then was a 10 minute visit to my local bank to complete an international money transfer form! And I most definitely did not require the permission of the Bank of England to send the money to Thailand!

On another three occasions I returned to the Thai bank head office and had to answer questions or produce documents that only my former solicitor in Bangkok could provide. By the time I left Thailand in mid-April 2017, and after waiting 4 long weeks, my bank head office had still not received authorisation from the Bank of Thailand to send my own money to the UK!

It was 6 weeks later, after I arrived back in the UK, and following numerous exchanges of emails between me and my bank before I eventually received my money. But despite receiving exactly the same amount of Thai Baht that I paid for the condo, once converted to GBP, yet again I made a handsome gain, which attracted Capital Gains Tax in the UK. So, all in all, a bit of a bureaucratic nightmare, poshglasgow, something you might want to bear in mind.

And one thing I have not mentioned, but which I also think is important, renting a property allows for maximum flexibility. If you don’t like the property, or if you want to move to another town or city, it is far easier to up sticks and move when you rent property. And if you own a property in the UK, I would also recommend keeping it and renting it out as the rental income will come in as a useful supplement your pension and/or other income. And if things don’t work out as you planned or if you would like to return to your property from time to time, having a property back in the UK is a very convenient safety net.

In conclusion, and for all of the above reasons, I recommend renting a property in Thailand. Of course, others may well have a different experience from me and they are free to offer you alternative advice.

An amazing story, Jellybean, and I very much appreciate the time you have taken to outline the potiential bureaucratic pitfalls of buying as apposed to renting. Just as with SG's response, the message really comes down to one over-riding consideration, irrespective of where you invest: caveat emptor!

[poshglasgow]

Personally, I'd never buy. Rent is extremely cheap in Thailand anyway, so buying doesn't make much sense.

- Life is fluid and things tend to change with time, so if you ever decide to relocate, it's no problem.
- Laws change on a virtual whim in Thailand, and you may find yourself in a bad situation.
- You can only own a condo, not a house (at least not the land on it)
- If you ever have a dispute with the owner / landlord / property managers, it may be difficult to get resolved, leaving you in a bad position if you own. If you're renting, then no problem, and just grab a new place.

Many thanks, cdnmatt, this tends to support the trend of advice forthcoming.

[paborn]

Jellybean , just an amazing and informative piece.

[fedssocr]

I'm still a ways away from retirement but if I were to spend a lot of time in Thailand I would certainly rent a furnished place some place in Bangkok on a public transport line. I suppose everyone's situation is different but I wouldn't want to live full time in Thailand although I could see spending several months a year there. And given how climate change is already causing havoc I don't think I'd buy any waterfront property in Thailand...or any property in Bangkok either.

[arsenal]

Renting is the only sensible thing to do. Any regular visitor to Pattaya can tell you that something ridiculously noisy can appear anywhere and at any time. Or a huge apartment block can go up outside your window.

[frequent]

The best sources of information are, I find, DD Property, Thai Apartment and Hip Flat. They allow users to filter on selection criteria such as MRT/BTS stations, size, number of bedrooms and price. DD Property also has an App; not sure about Thai Apartment or Hip Flat. DD Property and maybe the others also allow you to search via condo name if you find a condo you're interested in. Unfortunately some landlords have only a vague idea of where their apartment is located, it would seem. I've seen apartments listed as near one BTS station in the Silom/Sathorn area, only to find the map shows them out at Chatuchuk

https://www.ddproperty.com/en
https://www.hipflat.com/
http://www.thaiapartment.com/

[snotface]

I bought my condo in Jomtien 13 years ago and have never regretted it. I like the feeling that I own it myself (it's not company-owned) and do not have to consult anyone if I want to make changes. Last year, for instance, I removed a second bathroom I hardly ever used except for storage and thereby gave myself a much larger living room. I have decorated the condo to my taste over the years and it now feels like a welcome haven from the ugliness of much of Pattaya. I love returning to it after a trip and just spending leisure time in it. I am lucky to live in a block which ousted a corrupt female Thai manager soon after I moved in and installed a proper committee consisting mainly of farangs. It now has a reputation for being one of the best run in the area. I am also lucky in that there is not much outside noise. Maintenance fees are quite low and I estimate that I have paid only a third of what I would have paid if renting a comparable apartment over these 13 years. I didn't buy with capital appreciation in mind, which is just as well since constant condo building in Pattaya has kept appreciation to a minimum. Because the pound was much stronger against the baht when I bought it, I would realise a nice pound profit if I decided to sell it, though Jellybean's excellent post shows how hard it can be to get those pounds back to the UK.

I have no quibble with the consensus in this thread that renting is a wiser option in these volatile times. For me, though, buying has worked out well, both for emotional and financial reasons.

[frequent]

I am lucky to live in a block which ousted a corrupt female Thai manager soon after I moved in and installed a proper committee consisting mainly of farangs. It now has a reputation for being one of the best run in the area.I understand that that is the key success criteria IF people want to buy

[Smiles]

I fully understand that there is a huge difference in general 'comfortableness' between those who live in Thailand (and possibly will die there) and those who come to Thailand for short termer holidays, and long termers who come here for months at a time but then go back home for months at a time.

I'm in the group (a minority) who live in Thailand and will probably die here. Our relationship is sneaking up to 20 years now and frankly, all I want to do is live in Thailand quite happily.
Three years ago we bought a country house in Surin Province, and just this year we've bought a home here in Hua Hin.
Doing that makes me feel happily 'comfortable' (on many levels and in both lovely homes) and frankly, feeling like that should be a goal and a given for anyone in their 70's.

I admit that I spent a large amount of time ~ years in fact ~ on wrestling with the "rent or buy" question, and I'm certain that those who come to Thailand with few intentions of living here should definitely wrestle as I did, and should probably come down on the 'rent' side. Totally understandable.

[frequent]

Three years ago we bought a country house in Surin Province, and just this year we've bought a home here in Hua Hin.In your own name?