Qualities of the gay man v the straight man

[poshglasgow]

When I was in Jomtien a few weeks ago I strayed, under the influence of a few pints, from the comparative safety and culture of the gay community in the Complex into nearby "Breeder Land" by way of a football bar so that I could watch a World Cup match. I could just have easily have stayed in the @Home bar to watch on the big screen but occasionally I feel the need to take a short peek in the straight bars to see if they are still as ghastly as I remembered them to be on my last trip!

The contrast, needless to say, is extreme between the level of decorum, intelligent conversation, mild manner, basic civility and controlled behaviour that one finds in the gay community, and the mayhem, uncouth, bombastic, homophobic, loutish, racist behaviour often associated with 'macho land'. "En-ger-land, En-ger-land!!"

My local pub in the UK, for example, whilst very convenient, is awash with laddish behaviour, displayed by middle-aged neanderthal tradesmen (I have nothing whatsoever against tradesmen: I have everything against tradesmen who are blatantly homophobic) who, on a good day, refer to gays as "fucking poofs and shirt-lifters"! They seem to care little that this kind of behaviour in a public place is illegal, but to them it is normal and a necessary signal to the rest of the 'herd' that their heterosexuality is without question, for fear that their equally intellectually-challenged friends may think him a......well, you know, a chap who, er, bats for the other side!

Whilst listening to a most inspiring gay man talking about his teenage years in sixties Britain on BBC Radio 4 this morning, I began to think about the levels of innate intelligence between heteros and homos. It is my theory that the gay man is miles ahead of his heterosexual counterpart. Certainly within the creative arts and education we tend to lead, but the difference is particularly obvious when chatting with fellow gay men: intelligent, erudite, philosophical, sensitive creatures that we are.

Please, having said all that, let's not now launch a custard pie throwing fest between members in this thread. We are, or we should be, all on the same side. (Unless you support Glasgow Rangers)!!

Anyone else have views on the perceived differences between gays and straights?

[scottish-guy]

.. the mayhem, uncouth, bombastic, homophobic, loutish, racist behaviour often associated with 'macho land'. "En-ger-land, En-ger-land!!" ....We are, or we should be, all on the same side. (Unless you support Glasgow Rangers)!!

Well, the Glasgow Rangers and "En-ger-land" supporters are certainly on the same side - you'll find a large number of Rangers fans who have only 3 "stepping out" outfits:

1. Rangers top
2. England top
3. Bowler Hat and Orange Order Sash

As for gay men being more educated or cultured that (ostensibly) straight men - I think you're comparing apples with oranges (no pun intended, Rangers fans).

You're comparing a clientele of (as you say) "tradesmen" who are part of a sports and drinking culture and want to be amongst their peers in a raucous bar showing football matches, with a client group who generally want to sit in a bar ogling the young male talent without anybody noticing. Obviously I'm talking of the UK, not Thailand

Gay men have historically been 'outsiders' and, by necessity, very adept at keeping their collars up and their heads down in order to hide their "dirty little secret" as society would call it - and this still influences their behaviour in many social settings.

I don't think it's a matter of education or highbrow culture at all, but of societal pressures influencing behaviours.

[arsenal]

This is somewhat stereotyping. Many gay men are unpleasantly uncouth and demonstrate all the decorum of a rutting bison in a pile of manure. Even on this very board.

[paborn]

True Arsenal. But, I believe, or would love to believe, that Gay culture does have a larger community of cultured men then is common. However, comparing gay culture to a group of football fans during world cup play is, indeed, stereotyping.

Aids devastated Broadway for more than a decade. The deaths of gay writers, directors, players and dancers reduced the "great white way" to producing revivals. Still, if you had entered the artist community you would have found the straight men and women there to be sympathetic and emotionally fraught by the loss of their talented friends.

[Uranus]

This is somewhat stereotyping. Many gay men are unpleasantly uncouth and demonstrate all the decorum of a rutting bison in a pile of manure. Even on this very board.

Couldn’t agree more.

[frequent]

Since the binary distinction of "gay" versus "straight" does not exist, the question is meaningless. As for guessing someone's "qualities" from social media alone, I offer today's Dilbert:

7466

[scottish-guy]

Presumably you don't believe that Acid or Alkali exists either?

[frequent]

True Arsenal. But, I believe, or would love to believe, that Gay culture does have a larger community of cultured men then is common. However, comparing gay culture to a group of football fans during world cup play is, indeed, stereotyping.It's a chicken and egg thing, paborn. If you think you're less likely to be accepted socially where you are, you look to somewhere more accepting. The theatre in particular and arts in general have often been "bohemian" and therefore a natural magnet. I've always found the largest employment group of men who identify as gay are waiters. However there are a lot of men who have sex with other men who do not identify as gay - maybe the majority - and who recoil in horror at things like Mardi Gras parades

[frequent]

Presumably you don't believe that Acid or Alkali exists either?In your case scotty it's best to remain silent and let people think you're a fool rather than open your mouth and prove their point. My acknowledgement of the Kinsey Scale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale) is something about which I often remark

[scottish-guy]

I'm well aware of that - and it's the very point I was making, by comparing it to the PH scale.

Surprised you didn't get that.

Maybe you had a bet on England to win tonight and their result has put you in a cranky mood, so I'll be a little more generous that you were, by not insulting you (as you did to me).

But be assured it's in the bank for another occasion.

:p

[frequent]

I'm well aware of that - and it's the very point I was making, by comparing it to the PH scale.

Surprised you didn't get that.

Maybe you had a bet on England to win tonight and their result has put you in a cranky mood, so I'll be a little more generous that you were, by not insulting you (as you did to me).

But be assured it's in the bank for another occasion.

:pSurely you don’t wish to intrude on my grief over the Korean team’s ouster by taunting me about the perfidious English?

[frequent]

Trigger warning for lip-pursers everywhere (hullo francois)

Back to the theatre as bohemia and a safe haven for the "different". One of my favourite performers is the wonderful Barry Humphries who not only does not care if he offends, but actually intends to offend. An extensive interview with him has just been published in The Luvvies' in-house organ, The Guardian (or as Private Eye - another favourite - calls it The Grauniad) https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/jul/11/barry-humphries-interview-offence-dame-edna-everage-sir-les-patterson

[arsenal]

As if by magic the unpleasant and the uncouth appear to prove my point.

[a447]

I also think that gays appear over-represented in the field of the Arts.

But that may simply be because society and the media are obsessed with their sexual orientation and like to highlight that fact.

[frequent]

Speaking of the arts, I'm reminded that Dame Nellie Melba once described the Great Caruso's as "the sweetest cum I ever tasted"; in later life she kept a strapping young man in the wings of the theatre and sucked him off before a performance to lubricate her vocal chords

[a447]

in later life she kept a strapping young man in the wings of the theatre and sucked him off before a performance to lubricate her vocal chords

I'll keep that in mind next time I go to karaoke!

[arsenal]

These days it seems that no one is allowed to be anything and no one is allowed to recognise any differences between men/women, black/Asian/white, gay/straight. Everyone has to be metrosexual and love everybody else the same. Fuck that. Fat Lesbos are scarily butch and I don't like em. So there. The same goes for the old, bitter and whiney like Wombles and Frequent.

[scottish-guy]

I'll keep that in mind next time I go to karaoke!

One can only speculate what your Karaoke "playlist" is - but based on the accounts of your sex life you post on this forum I'm assuming it's:


Millie Small's "My Boy Lollipop"
Olivia Neutron Bomb's "Let's Get Physical"
Anita Ward's "Ring My Bell"
Capt & Tenille's "Do That To Me One More Time" - and you finish up (literally) with
Johnny Cash's "Ring of Fire"

[arsenal]

I can see the Thai boys playing Local Hero (Mark Knopfler) when a447 pitches up with his wad.

[Oliver2]

It was noticeable to me, when I first arrived in Pattaya in 1996, shy and only recently experienced as an actively- gay man, that the people whom I saw in gay bars (and even talked with very occasionally) behaved with decorum, unlike those many of those I saw (and didn't speak to) in straight beer bars. They dressed respectfully, were never, as far I could see, obnoxiously drunk and treated the guys with kindness and civility.

[frequent]

It was noticeable to me, when I first arrived in Pattaya in 1996, shy and only recently experienced as an actively- gay man, that the people whom I saw in gay bars (and even talked with very occasionally) behaved with decorum, unlike those many of those I saw (and didn't speak to) in straight beer bars. They dressed respectfully, were never, as far I could see, obnoxiously drunk and treated the guys with kindness and civility.Frankly there's no point in behaving like a limp-wristed poof, thereby drawing attention to yourself from obnoxious drunks, is there?

[a447]

One can only speculate what your Karaoke "playlist" is - but based on the accounts of your sex life you post on this forum I'm assuming it's:


Millie Small's "My Boy Lollipop"
Olivia Neutron Bomb's "Let's Get Physical"
Anita Ward's "Ring My Bell"
Capt & Tenille's "Do That To Me One More Time" - and you finish up (literally) with
Johnny Cash's "Ring of Fire"



Lol.

I feel a song coming on!

[aot871]

ITs the same as guys who come to pattaya and spend all their time with lady boys and then say they are not gay

[poshglasgow]

Trigger warning for lip-pursers everywhere (hullo francois)

Back to the theatre as bohemia and a safe haven for the "different". One of my favourite performers is the wonderful Barry Humphries who not only does not care if he offends, but actually intends to offend. An extensive interview with him has just been published in The Luvvies' in-house organ, The Guardian (or as Private Eye - another favourite - calls it The Grauniad) https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/jul/11/barry-humphries-interview-offence-dame-edna-everage-sir-les-patterson

Frequent, glad to know that you follow Private Eye, as do I by way of subscription. I look forward to it arriving on my doorstep every two weeks, as much as I did "Look and Learn" in Glasgow in the early sixties (the big brother publication of which was "Knowledge"). Do you recall these publications in our fair city SG? I know that they were nationwide publications but we were 'actively encouraged' by our Jesuit schoolmasters to read them..... under sentence of death!

[poshglasgow]

"Speaking of the arts, I'm reminded that Dame Nellie Melba once described the Great Caruso's as "the sweetest cum I ever tasted"; in later life she kept a strapping young man in the wings of the theatre and sucked him off before a performance to lubricate her vocal chords."

I used to gargle with port before a performance: a trick I learnt from my mentor, an international opera singer. But, one had to spit and not swallow (careful) for fear of forgetting the words!!

[frequent]

"Speaking of the arts, I'm reminded that Dame Nellie Melba once described the Great Caruso's as "the sweetest cum I ever tasted"; in later life she kept a strapping young man in the wings of the theatre and sucked him off before a performance to lubricate her vocal chords."

I used to gargle with port before a performance: a trick I learnt from my mentor, an international opera singer. But, one had to spit and not swallow (careful) for fear of forgetting the words!!As we can infer from his post, a447 prefers to swallow - although gargling with cum is something I hadn’t considered before now

[lonelywombat]

Frankly there's no point in behaving like a limp-wristed poof, thereby drawing attention to yourself from obnoxious drunks, is there?

It didnt succeed for you, did it?

[arsenal]

Freaky, Wombles. Get a room and take Scottish Guy with you. Freakybum can bring the Viagra, Wombles a take away from Yupins and Scottyboy an endless supply of ill thought out opinions on everything.

[poshglasgow]

Well, the Glasgow Rangers and "En-ger-land" supporters are certainly on the same side - you'll find a large number of Rangers fans who have only 3 "stepping out" outfits:

1. Rangers top
2. England top
3. Bowler Hat and Orange Order Sash

As for gay men being more educated or cultured that (ostensibly) straight men - I think you're comparing apples with oranges (no pun intended, Rangers fans).

You're comparing a clientele of (as you say) "tradesmen" who are part of a sports and drinking culture and want to be amongst their peers in a raucous bar showing football matches, with a client group who generally want to sit in a bar ogling the young male talent without anybody noticing. Obviously I'm talking of the UK, not Thailand

Gay men have historically been 'outsiders' and, by necessity, very adept at keeping their collars up and their heads down in order to hide their "dirty little secret" as society would call it - and this still influences their behaviour in many social settings.

I don't think it's a matter of education or highbrow culture at all, but of societal pressures influencing behaviours.

An excellent assessment! Much over which to ponder here, SG. Thanks.

[arsenal]

Fantastic passive/aggressive post Poshglasgow. So many members deal with him that way. He doesn't notice. Hehe.