Russia and the World Cup

[arsenal]

The reputation of Russia could hardly have been worse in recent years. From invading Crimea to starting a war in Ukraine (including arming rebels with munitions they used to shoot down a civilian airplane) to poisoning people in Britain to the PR disaster that was the Sochi Winter Olympics. The idea of having the Fifa World Cup there, a festival of not only football but of life, a party for the world in which all are welcomed was anathema to all right minded people.

Well, it turns out that Russia have hosted what is being talked about as possibly the best World Cup ever. The football has been fabulous, the atmosphere electric, passionate and friendly. Opposing fans not only sitting next to each other drinking beers but congratulating and consoling each other after the match. It has in short been absolutely everything the World Cup should be. So, Russia, well done you and regardless of any results to come you've put on a show that Qatar is going to struggle to match.

[Smiles]

It is indeed a World Cup to remember. I've watched most of the games and the quality has been quite mesmerising.
I felt like crying for the Japan team who were up 2-0 for most of the game with Belgium, but in the end lost 3-2 ... a barage of goals in the last half hour. Belgium went on to glory after that and could easily win the whole thing if they keep playing like they are.
Of course both Brazil and Argentina flew home, distraught. Neither Neymar nor Messi could help in this cup.
Up in the bleachers an obese and ghastly looking Maradona was having an heart attack.

https://goo.gl/images/tDg7JK

Who would have thought at least one South American team would not be in the final four?
And ... I think England might well go the distance. A long shot, but they are playing sublime football.

[Nirish guy]

I think England might well go the distance. A long shot, but they are playing sublime football.

Lets hope not eh as we'll NEVER hear the end of it - my god they STILL haven't stopped going on about 1966 yet ffs !

[frequent]

Lets hope not eh as we'll NEVER hear the end of it - my god they STILL haven't stopped going on about 1966 yet ffs !The irony is that Mother Teresa forbade any official recognition by anyone from the Royal Family down, so an England win would be a poke in the eye for her

[Nirish guy]

Hmm now that I think about it, was there not something about the English FA supporting the displaying of the 3 lions rainbow themed logo on banners etc in support of LGBT inclusion etc......hmmmm if so perhaps it would be nice them if they DID get through and the whole English team decided ( or were TOLD to) to wear that short in the final !

THAT would be one great way of bringing rampant homophobia of the Russian Government to the worlds attention ( even more) as they would no doubt attempt to ban the wearing of the shirt, It would also be a nice way of giving a clear two fingers to the Kremlin and the Russians who support their governments actions against their own LGBT citizens too perhaps.

Only problem there is England really would need to be sure to win the bloody game to ensure no lose of face to the enemy !

7453

[frequent]

Hmm now that I think about it, was there not something about the england team wearing a rainbow coloured logo on their shirt in support of LGBT inclusion etc......hmmmm if so perhaps it would be nice if they DID get into the final - just to get wearing THAT in Russia to give two fingers to the Kremlin and the Russians that support their rampant homophobia.It's all to do with the poisoning of people on English soil by nerve agents. The suspicion is that it's the Russians what done it, hence the disapprobation

[Marsilius]

Going back to the OP's line of thought... It's actually pretty easy for an authoritarian police state to organise a sports tournament, forcibly prevent - or hide - any forms of dissent or trouble and present a very positive face to the world that convinces many. That, after all, is what happened in the case of the 1936 Berlin Olympics where Germany was prettified for the foreign visitors and any open persecution of Jews was temporarily put on hold.

Let's not forget, either, Russia's long tradition of Potemkin Villages - structures put temporarily in place to create misleadingly favourable impressions. Originally designed to fool Catherine the Great, they later served to fool the "useful idiots" from the West who visited Russia in the 1920s and 1930s and praised the things that they were allowed to see.

Yes, everyone seems to have had a good time at the World Cup - but let's not forget the underlying nature of the Russian state.

[Nirish guy]

to fool the "useful idiots" from the West ......... and praised the things that they were allowed to see.

Not forgetting North Korea of course who are also experts in that fine art too with their Ryugyong Hotel and winter wonderland Ski village etc.

[frequent]

Not forgetting North Korea of course who are also experts in that fine art too with their Ryugyong Hotel and winter wonderland Ski village etc.And the Singapore meeting with Trump

[scottish-guy]

It's all to do with the poisoning of people on English soil by nerve agents. The suspicion is that it's the Russians what done it, hence the disapprobation

So, if there's only suspicion as you say (and I agree), how come it's being treated as fact by the entire English MSM and the UK Govt?

[paborn]

Going back to the OP's line of thought... It's actually pretty easy for an authoritarian police state to organise a sports tournament, forcibly prevent - or hide - any forms of dissent or trouble and present a very positive face to the world that convinces many. That, after all, is what happened in the case of the 1936 Berlin Olympics where Germany was prettified for the foreign visitors and any open persecution of Jews was temporarily put on hold.

Let's not forget, either, Russia's long tradition of Potemkin Villages - structures put temporarily in place to create misleadingly favourable impressions. Originally designed to fool Catherine the Great, they later served to fool the "useful idiots" from the West who visited Russia in the 1920s and 1930s and praised the things that they were allowed to see.

Yes, everyone seems to have had a good time at the World Cup - but let's not forget the underlying nature of the Russian state.

Just one litle, tiny quibble: an authoritarian state has nothing to do with the incredible quality of the game playing.....

[arsenal]

A pulsating match and while England didn't play well they still carried themselves like lions and did the nation proud. Congratulations to Croatia, the better team won. Have a great game against France.

[scottish-guy]

How the world reacted to England's defeat tonight:


http://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1017146552836599808/pu/vid/1280x720/WIy-z_TKTFPvPbNl.mp4?tag=3

[goji]

1 Playing the world cup in a country where the temperatures are not too hot is always likely to produce faster & more entertaining football.
Unfortunately, it's Qatar next time.

2 The Russian government knows how to behave when the world is watching their PR stunt.

3 Ex Russian spy attacked with Russian nerve agent. After all the other suspicious deaths of Kremlin opponents, it'd not rocket science to figure it out. I'm just amazed they have been so clumsy in the execution of this execution.

[scottish-guy]

3 Ex Russian spy attacked with Russian nerve agent. After all the other suspicious deaths of Kremlin opponents, it'd not rocket science to figure it out. I'm just amazed they have been so clumsy in the execution of this execution.

Plenty of people - including the Ex British Ambassador to Uzbekistan - are quite vocal that they do not believe that the Russians are responsible at all. As you say it would be far too clumsy and obvious. Absolutely no proof the nerve agent originated in Russia - as said Ex Ambassador predicted long before the UK Govt had their narrative blown apart by their own research labs..

[frequent]

Plenty of people - including the Ex British Ambassador to Uzbekistan - are quite vocal that they do not believe that the Russians are responsible at all. As you say it would be far too clumsy and obvious. Absolutely no proof the nerve agent originated in Russia - as said Ex Ambassador predicted long before the UK Govt had their narrative blown apart by their own research labs.."Plenty of people" in the Anglosphere thought male-to-male sex was a perversion worthy of hellfire when I was growing up. Plenty of Germans thought Hitler was the bee's knees (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bees%20knees) in 1938. According to opinion polls plenty of Americans thought George Bush was a great president after 7/11

[Marsilius]

Ex Russian spy attacked with Russian nerve agent. After all the other suspicious deaths of Kremlin opponents, it'd not rocket science to figure it out. I'm just amazed they have been so clumsy in the execution of this execution.

An interesting article by Ben Macintyre in The Sunday Times put forward the theory that the atypical clumsiness of the poisoning operation might indicate that it was not organised by the Russian government itself but by the spy's ex-colleagues in Russian military intelligence. They may have been, it was suggested, operating "privately" against an ex-colleague who had betrayed them. Now retired from active service, they would not have had official resources to back their action but would have had enough old links to sources of novichok etc. to mount a viable independent attack.

It's just a theory and, as Macintyre wrote, the all-knowing Russian government would probably have been aware that something was afoot. But the authorities wouldn't have disapproved of an attack that much and their very indirect level of involvent, if any, offered them a plausible degree of deniability.

[frequent]

It's just a theory and, as Macintyre wrote, the all-knowing Russian government would probably have been aware that something was afoot. But the authorities wouldn't have disapproved of an attack that much and their very indirect level of involvent, if any, offered them a plausible degree of deniability.Given what we know about the downing of the Malaysian Airlines aircraft, even implausible deniability is a Russian strength

[scottish-guy]

"Plenty of people" in the Anglosphere thought male-to-male sex was a perversion worthy of hellfire when I was growing up. Plenty of Germans thought Hitler was the bee's knees (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bees%20knees) in 1938. According to opinion polls plenty of Americans thought George Bush was a great president after 7/11

Similarly "Plenty of people" (including the UK Govt and others) believe that Russia was responsible for the "Novichok" attacks - despite there being not a shred of hard evidence to support that belief.

I'm merely pointing out that others are sceptical, and providing examples.

[frequent]

... - despite there being not a shred of hard evidence to support that belief.Heavens, they'd do well as members of the Forum

[scottish-guy]

So, after all the hype and the "It's Coming Home" malarkey (conveniently ignoring the fact that the world's first international match was actually played in Scotland):

England come 4th in the World Cup having lost three games out of seven.

Their four victories being against the mighty Tunisia, Panama, Colombia(on penalties), and Sweden.

On the only occasion they faced a team ranked above them - Belgium - they fell apart.


https://vimeo.com/280001879

[arsenal]

It was an enjoyable run but only a fool judges himself or his nation by a football team.

[frequent]

There's an interesting assessment of Russia post-World Cup by Simon Kuper in this weekend's Financial Times. As it's behind a paywall I won't bother providing a link. Kuper's assessment is that Putin's screwed - hardly an original thought. The GDP of Russia continues to fall and is now, I understand, less than that of lonelywombat's home country Australia. Putin won't allow any dancing in the streets once the tourists have gone home - too much of a risk it will turn into a popular uprising

[gerefan2]

Putin won't allow any dancing in the streets once the tourists have gone home - too much of a risk it will turn into a popular uprising

Please tell, why would any Russians want to dance in the streets?
Anyway it’s only a game...